Open 662: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Realeo, you and I are talking about two different things. I wasn't responding to your Transcend case. But to answer your question about my opinion on it:
-by showing that he skimmed rather than reading isos, you showed that he's lazy. Not that he's scum, but that he's lazy. *shrug*
-I don't think it's unreasonable that he changed his mind on a read
-I don't see why you're so sure he's faking anything.

I DIDN'T SAY HE IS LAZYY!!!

I said he fake it,

to avoid suspicion

. You never respond to me about that.

I disagree.

Kmd, is your game plan is to white knight Transcend and mysteriously deadline bus Transcend in the future?

I don't see myself voting Transcend in the future.

KMD, if you are town, stop skimreading my case. I am flustered that whatever I say, you just rebuttal it.

I didn't skim it. I read it. Your arguement is that he didn't put time into the ISOs therefore they are fake and he's scum. I think it shows nothing more than that he doesn't put as much time into mafia as someone like you. This is his playstyle. Playing like that doesn't make him scum. It may not make him the best player (sorry Transcend) but it doesn't make him scum either.

To 1541, I personally think that the Aris meta point about not doing anything here, blaming it on the setup, and then doing things in his other fire and ice game he played, is the scummiest thing in the game right now. Your Transcend case does nothing for me. Sorry but I just don't think he's faking his reads. He hasn't put effort into them and I wish he would, but that's just how some people play unfortunately (see not mafia). And you're right that I'll probably switch back to kuro, but it's not entirely because of the Amished tell. It's partly that, partly BK's Rory case, partly process of elimination because my scum reads were wrong and there are only so many possibilities left, and partly because no one seems to care about the blatant differences in Aris's play here compared to the other fire and ice game and his account of both games.

[Joshz]

VOTE: not mafia

[Not_Mafia]

Rude

[light_ganski]

Official Vote Count 3.3

Transcend (3)

- Realeo, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald

KuroiXHF (2)

- BK201, havingfitz

Not_Mafia (1)

- Joshz

havingfitz (1)

- Transcend

Realeo (1)

- KuroiXHF

Gamma Emerald (1)

- Not_Mafia

Aristophanes (1)

- Kmd4390

Not Voting (0)

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2017-01-16 11:41:39) until deadline.

[Transcend]

VOTE: Aris

Realeo please stop confbiasing me.

BK201, I gave you an opportunity to vote your biggest scum read and you didn't take it. You're a big stinky.

I'm cool with gamma/aris voting me though.

[Kmd4390]

Good vote

WAGON GOGOGOGOGO

[Transcend]

Yeah man let's do it

[Transcend]

WAGON IS GO

[Transcend]

Wait hold on with 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch so unless all 6 remaining town vote scum, that means scum will have to bus or lynch someone from the other team in order for a scum lynch to be achieved.

Fun stuff guys. Lol.

[Transcend]

I want information. I want 2 deaths. Let's nl maybe. I'm sure it's in both factions best interest to attempt to crosskill as town is 3 down with the only night utility gone.

[Joshz]

why wouldnt mafia want to lynch the other mafia???

[BK201]

I always want to lynch KMD, but I cannot tell why...It's a weird vibe...

About how many games have you played with KMD? Any games where KMD was scum?

I have a feeling that KMD is genuine scumhunting, but the logic feels awkward.

I just can't tell if it's play style or scum trying to busy.

Scum don't need to "stay busy" in multi-ball.

I was suspecting Gamma up through end of D1 but I think he is a good possibility for both teams targetting combined with the observation that he hasn't received hardly any attention D2. He and Rory both reached L-3 near the end of D1 but I just feel like Gamma was more likely to get 2 targets. He was at L-4 much longer than Rory and closer to the end of D1.

Did we ever discuss this theory to the point of actual wagon analysis?

Gamma wagon: Transcend, Io, Not_Mafia, Rory. It died then grew again to be Transcend, Rory, nn30, and Io.
nn30 has flipped town, and Transcend did get back onto that wagon later on D2. NM didn't keep on it through the full day. Io and Rory did though. They pushed it twice (citations pending) and then dropped it cold turkey the next day. If we theorize a Gamma NK target N1, we would probably assume the scumteams were pushing him throughout the day to get the other faction lynched (should they have both shot for scum). So looking at the votes, Io/Fitz and Rory should both be mafia, but on opposing teams. This is all if Gamma was the target and the reason for the wagon drop D2 was lack of momentum from the main people who pushed it D1.

I don't know if this makes any sense, since it is a theory on a theory. But hey, it's a start!

That's not a theory on a theory at all, you just repeated the theory Realeo and I came up with. Glad you understand it though.

So i got lynched right

Okay well i was town. Please sheep me tm.

Pretty sure you lynched the person who both factions killed.

...I was not the hammer, was I?

Actually since this is the 4th town death, scum need to cross kill.

Fitz / Realeo, take it from a pro. The scum are gamma and aris.

Also vice versa lol.

...I was not the hammer, was I?

L-3

...I was not the hammer, was I?

You were, but you're scum so don't even pretend to be ashamed.

Oh i thought i got lynched hmm

Transcend Is trying to fake towntell IMO.
VOTE: Transcend

Agreed. I wasn't sure if it was a reaction test but he went past that point and tried to act like it was legit. Lynch all liars.

Appreciated. So let me get this right, the case on me is based on two notions:
1. Rory was scummy.
2. I amished.

Point number one, I can't really do anything about. Point number two, I would find silly to only go on me on that point alone. I will say that I've played more than one scum game before on here and I've never amished. For me to start now wouldn't make much sense, given I don't really know anyone this game and this is an untested crowd for me.

Are there any other reasons?

For me it's mostly #1. I know you can't do anything about it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

BTW, if Transcend flips scum, Gamma Emerald is almost confirmed town.

It's multi-ball, so it would only mean Gamma is almost conf not Transcend's partner. Unless you're going by the double NK Gamma theory, because I'm starting to think Transcend is scum, and he was one of the 3 implicated by our theory but I shrugged him off because of his erratic playstyle + rory/io being much worse at the time.

UNVOTE:

I doubt again that scum will put both eggs in one basket.

Which means, there's a fire, an ice, and an idiot in {Realeo, Fitz, Gamma}.

Leaning on Realeo being the idiot.

Hey bk here's a present for you.

VOTE: havingfitz

I appreciate it, this tells me Transcend is probably not partnered with Fitz. I'm thinking Transcend/NM or Transcend/Kuroi team.

VOTE: Aris

Realeo please stop confbiasing me.

BK201, I gave you an opportunity to vote your biggest scum read and you didn't take it. You're a big stinky.

I'm cool with gamma/aris voting me though.

I actually only posted those posts about my personal problems accessing internet (which are no longer a thing) and didn't read the thread. Probably wouldn't have taken it because you pretended you thought you were lynched for town points. "Oh, well I was town" lol.

[Transcend]

Oh so I'm scum now

I feel so betrayed

[BK201]

Official Vote Count 1.3

Gamma Emerald (4)

: Transcend, Io, Not_Mafia, Rory

Transcend (3)

: Gamma Emerald, SnarkySnowman, culted

Realeo (1)

: BK201

BK201 (1)

: Joshz

SnarkySnowman (1)

: PenguinPower

Not Voting (3)

- nn30, Clemency, Realeo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

Transcend, Io, NM, Rory

Official Vote Count 1.9

nn30 (5)

: culted, Not_Mafia, Kmd4390, SnarkySnowman, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (4)

: Transcend, Rory, nn30, Io

Rory (2)

: Joshz, BK201

Transcend (1)

: Realeo

Not Voting (1)

- Aristophanes

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

Transcend, Rory,

nn30

, Io

VCA indicates Transcend, Io, Rory, and to a lesser extent NM were all on Gamma's wagon and have he has completely dropped off their Radar.

Transcend drops wagons and starts wagons all the time so this tell doesn't implicate him.

Rory has not posted Day 2 yet, and it's too late to see what he would do after he reads Realo's theory, but I think he's scum. And he was on Gamma's wagon so it's likely scum!Rory believed Gamma was scum and tried to NK him. This only further confirms Rory is scum.

Io hasn't said one word about Gamma D2. Io is most probable scum for this and other reasons I've stated.

Not_Mafia implicated Gamma in post 854 along with a few others, but has not voted Gamma. But he is a troll so he does whatever he wants and doesn't seem to care. Less incriminating than Io though.

TL:DR More evidence that Rory is scum. Scummy Io and to a lesser extent NM.

I wrote off Transcend because of his erratic playstyle (only played one game with him prior to this though), but he is implicated by Gamma double NK theory more than Kurory because unfortunately Rory didn't have a chance to post until after this theory was brought up.

Transcend didn't mention Gamma during Day 2 until this theory came up, but he was on Gamma's ass Day 1. As Realo said he did vote him later, possibly to avoid this suspicion after we brought it up. Realo's case on Transcend seems legit too, and holds up with my NK theory.

But what puts the nail in the coffin to me is the Transcend pretending to get lynched. I don't buy it. I thought maybe it was a reaction test but he tried to act like it was legit.

So i got lynched right

Okay well i was town. Please sheep me tm.

Pretty sure you lynched the person who both factions killed.

At L-3. I'm not saying he needs to count votes, but there were several comments between this one and "oh I thought I got lynched" and he just ignored them to continue his fake town-tell. Not logical. The only way this came from town is if it was a reaction test, but it does not come off that way at all.

VOTE: Transcend

[BK201]

That's L-2.

I'm thinking Transcend/Kuroi or Transcend/NM team.

Gamma and Realeo are probably town.

[Transcend]

L o freaking l

[BK201]

As for Transcend's partner, you should NK Fitz.

Io/Fitz is most probably a scum slot, and you can't afford to be wrong anymore. It's in your best interest as you want to eliminate the other team too.

[Transcend]

So if it's likely a scum slot why not bloody lynch it

[Transcend]

Bk you're doing the thing where you're targeting all the easy slots you did last time and i don't like it.

But my reads vs. The wagon construction on me are off kilter.

[BK201]

So if it's likely a scum slot why not bloody lynch it

Because you're the scummiest one now.

Bk you're doing the thing where you're targeting all the easy slots you did last time and i don't like it.

But my reads vs. The wagon construction on me are off kilter.

Yeah I went after some easy targets last game as scum, but I don't always do that + Fitz is no easy target, that guy is far more experienced than I. When him and I were scum last game I was highly impressed by his performance. You by no means are ever an easy target. I don't even know Kuroi, but he's not an easy target. Io definitely wasn't. You could argue Rory was, but that's it, he was scummy though. Guess who was an easy target though, SS was and I was actually right about him being lynch-bait.

[BK201]

off kilter.

Meaning what?

[Not_Mafia]

That's L-2.

I'm thinking Transcend/Kuroi or Transcend/NM team.

Gamma and Realeo are probably town.

Is it opposite day?

[BK201]

That's L-2.

I'm thinking Transcend/Kuroi or Transcend/NM team.

Gamma and Realeo are probably town.

Is it opposite day?

I know you either don't suspect Transcend, or you are his partner, but what are the rest of your reads? I think we should know as you don't say much.

[Not_Mafia]

Gamma/Realeo/Gamma/Gamma

[BK201]

and before I take my dog poop, what do you think about Transcend faking he got lynched? You can't buy that.

P-Edit: Very funny, 3 Gammas lol.