Mystic Mafia [Endgame]

[Kagami]

VOTE: camntsuki

Role pm says I'm a ninja turtle, but I'm not a ninja.

[Kagami]

VOTE: zito

Party on zito, SAD.

[Kagami]

OBLIGATORY NO ONE TARGET US THIS GAME PLEASE BECAUSE LOLWTFISTHISPLANE

Prepare for targeting.

[Kagami]

RRRRRC, I'd rrrrratherrrrr wait to see you on the weekend than see you go; it's looking like I might fffffall into a similarrrrr boat soon and I haven't gotten the chance to play with you rrrrrecently so seeing you herrrrre and then seeing you gone would be hearrrrrtbreaking.

When do you anticipate being active?

[Kagami]

158 is an odd conclusion to jump to.

[Kagami]

Infinity wagon is good but dunnstral votes are better.

To elaborate on this: dunny's play is inconsistent with information available to the town role he's softed.

I don't see what role he's softed.

[Kagami]

Anyone want to claim non-turtle?

[Kagami]

158 is an odd conclusion to jump to.

May or may not have been a joke. Why are you so rigid?

Why did you switch your vote?

[Kagami]

I meant why switch to zito in 157 if you didn't think infinity was in some way lynchproof.

Why do you have zito townish spyrex? I think 58 was a "Hey guys, I'm totes a turtle like you are."

[Kagami]

Spyrex wagon seems very orthogonal to the lynches that seem more reasonable to me (namely Dunn-Zito-Nahdia axis).

Nacho is being boring (PR is real, though).

[Kagami]

I like SAD, Mollie, camntsuki atm. Probably RC too.

[Kagami]

How reliable is the spyrex meta thing?

[Kagami]

Spyrex wagon seems very orthogonal to the lynches that seem more reasonable to me (namely Dunn-Zito-Nahdia axis).

I retract this, especially if nahdia is town.

[Kagami]

Not sure how to interpret that, dunn.

[Kagami]

Not sure how to interpret that, dunn.

You just kind of dropped that I was a reasonable lynch - why?

I meant liked as in liked as town, not liked to lynch.

[Kagami]

If you're referring to 337

[Kagami]

Nvm, misread that. I hadn't even seen the Dunn post.

[Kagami]

Spyrex wagon seems very orthogonal to the lynches that seem more reasonable to me (namely Dunn-Zito-Nahdia axis).

I retract this, especially if nahdia is town.

can you unpack this for me? thnx

I hadn't really noticed 302 until I was reading through RC's posts.

[Kagami]

Re: dunn, I more or less agree with the sentiments that have already been expressed.

[Kagami]

Re: dunn, I more or less agree with the sentiments that have already been expressed.

What does this mean

Specifically, funny interactions with Nahdia and a voting history that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Kagami]

I think it's fair to say I have some sort-of nacho seeking missiles at the ready, but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode.

There has to be something going on under the hood there, since regardless of Nacho's alignment, there are a lot of little disputes that I feel like he should be jumping on to mediate. I don't think the finding someone to flutter with thing is especially valid and is pretty antithetical to the Nacho I know and love.

I'm not crazy about his conclusion on Dunn as I'm feeling the opposite sense. While the "Don't vote me, bro" attitude is a little weird, and if he's Hated, he should just say so, his exchange with me around page 16 has more the flavor of "Kagami, you're supposed to be reading me correctly," possibly due to lateral interactions that can't be discussed.

[Kagami]

Btw, Staeg, from what I've seen here, turtle-ness is probably pretty important.

I'd be willing to bet our role names are of the form: <flavored rolename>, a <Turtle/scumflavor> Mystic.

[Kagami]

@Fate: Do we get full roles in flips, or just role names?

[Kagami]

Hmm

Is everyone a mystic? Even scum?

Look at the VCs~

[Kagami]

Btw, Staeg, from what I've seen here, turtle-ness is probably pretty important.

I'd be willing to bet our role names are of the form: <flavored rolename>, a <Turtle/scumflavor> Mystic.

I was thinking more about the Path than the Turtle.

I have nothing mentioning a path in my PM, so yes, probably irrelevant.

I do have a pretty awesome Camn's Apartment reference, though.

[Kagami]

I don't get it, Mollie o.o

[Kagami]

Meh, I wouldn't really mind seeing anyone lynched who is not mentioned in 337.

Maybe not Dunn, maybe camntsuki just because, but I still want to say hi, though maybe Nacho is better for that if there is some super secret reason he's being the way he is.

Personal favorite remains Zito, who has completely ignored my vote on him, where I expected some kind of pushback from somewhere.

[Kagami]

From your perspective, zito, the only reason I've given for voting you is an aside in 214, and I don't think I've ever played with you such that you'd find that not to be at least worth consideration.

You've given pretty much no solid content, outside of the second half 505, which you completely failed to pursue.

[Kagami]

Well how could we be expected to remember rc and Dunn which such high-impact posters as Zito and nacho running around?

[Kagami]

Alright, Dunn might be scum

[Kagami]

That's pretty surprising because I don't think my play here is similar to that other game

Do you want to talk about it?

I don't think the former means much since you would know that game would end early on in this one, and my prior reason for you being town was completely incorrect.

[Kagami]

My spirit vote is on spyrex over camntsuki atm.

[Kagami]

That's pretty surprising because I don't think my play here is similar to that other game

Do you want to talk about it?

I don't think the former means much since you would know that game would end early on in this one, and my prior reason for you being town was completely incorrect.

Ok, but do you have a reason to scumread me?

You seem to be saying I could change up my scum game, but where does the initial suspicion come from?

I don't understand what you're trying to do.

[Kagami]

Who's in the hood?

[Kagami]

VOTE: spyrex

[Kagami]

Don't worry, because Mollie used meta in 91, nobody will understand the hate on you for all those undertones.

[Kagami]

Don't worry, because Mollie used meta in 91, nobody will understand the hate on you for all those undertones.

Like i know this is english

But when i try to parse it i keep getting a series of whirs and oddly enough fart noises

That was me attempting to point out how ridiculous your explanation of 302 was.

[Kagami]

He's trying to say that he thinks it's justified to dismiss a set of reasons for someone being scum due to the "meta undertones" underlying one of those reasons, and has taken the approach of hand-waving criticism of that, possibly because someone in his PT has told him that I lack presence and can be happily ignored.

[Kagami]

No i said the nahdia hate was nonsensical and based on some meta bullshit

Which it is

I'm glad you think I'd need a team plotting to figure that out and to figure out you're a non entity

Even out here in the bush we can skin a carcass

229 was not meta. The suspicion on 20 was not meta. You could have called the reads wrong, but instead you posted 302, which you still could have backed out of if you had actual reasons for dismissing the read, but then 641 came where 302 is totally justified because one statement about nahdia involves meta.

[Kagami]

I think you are, nahdia! That's why spyrex needs rope.

[Kagami]

Mollie, do you benefit from being "neighborized" specifically or from being in a PT? Or do you just want the extra line of communication?

[Kagami]

I'm saying theres nothing scary about posting it

No I'm p sure literally everyone and their mother gets an aneurysm whenever someone dares to discuss anything related to roles on Day 1 on this site.

Kagami does so fffffrrrrrequently; haven't seen her get yelled at ffffforrrr it.

Nacho is correct that I don't think I'd be shy about that post as scum, unless there was scum-utility in keeping it secret.

[Kagami]

Let's go over this again, and maybe Nacho will grace us with some explanation for how town-spyrex is making these posts, since this should be something he has something to say about:

Here is 302:

And i reaaaly dont get the nahdia hate at all. Maybe thats becausr it seems to have some serious meta bullshit undertones

Here are "nahdia hate" posts in chronological order:

Spoiler: Posts containing elements of nahdia hate up to 302

I think Dunnstral may be [town] for highlighting what he thought was a soft in thread. Rather than, you know, taking it back to the scumthread and parsing what it may actually allude to.

I mean, he coulda done both, but my inclination is to think someone wouldn't bring up the same topic in two places. Maybe. I dunno. Maybe not.

Do you think scum would have any way to work off that... soft? I mean, you must, since otherwise--

The second scum is Nahdia.

You're welcome.

Arrite that's fair.

Can you elucidate me on Nahdia then cuz I clearly missed something.

Post 20 scum. Then her AtE cemented her as scum.

I think Dunnstral may be for highlighting what he thought was a soft in thread. Rather than, you know, taking it back to the scumthread and parsing what it may actually allude to.

I mean, he coulda done both, but my inclination is to think someone wouldn't bring up the same topic in two places. Maybe. I dunno. Maybe not.

Ok this is scum because ____________________________________________________________ .

You really don't see it?

Soft whiteknighting, assuming daychat, picking contrarian view so it look original and townie, super wishy wash.

...
I am sure that at any second that nahdia is going to swoop in and wow us with her fantastic case on me.
...

...

nah u wrong fam.

realtalk dont u dare fam

This is a little heavy.
...

Ok well I disagree so far. I would be more inclined to take another look except I already know your top scumread is wrong so I don't really have much faith in your accuracy.

I strongly dislike this post. Very dismissive... like, unnecessarily so. This is just a fancy way of saying OMGUS if you think about it.

...

Is this important?

dunno, but i felt like pointing it out.

i'm not really on board with the infinity lynch. nothing they've done has come off as really towny or really scummy to me. they look like b8, or can someone explain the super advanced high level mafia theory behind voting them?

I don't really care for the Infinity wagon either, but this is another post I am not liking from you, Nahdia. I don't like the end of this post here and the whole, "Maybe someone with the book smarts could explain it to little ol' me."

...

Rc I don't scumread SAD so no, it's not an OMGUS. I'm just telling him he's wrong. Which he is. As are you.

You think he's town, but you refuse to acknowledge his reads? Someone can think a person is town and wrong, but they generally aren't as dismissive as you're coming across.

"SAD is wrong about me therefore he's irrelevant" I didn't like the post. There's no willingness to communicate. It feels gross and separative.

---

RC is almost definitely town because he likes sum a lot more than town and I doubt he would want to replace out rather than take a 3-day VLA as scum.

To be fair, I'd do a catchup post regardless of alignment. Had the game been more active, I probably would've replaced regardless.

As far as dialogue goes, I'm not thrilled with the naked SAD vote. I won't say that a vote switch doesn't make sense given 223, but SAD was a bit of an odd choice. It also puts you in the always-awkward 3rd spot on the wagon. Are camntsuki & Dunn speaking to you?

---

Rc:
Faking a pr is faking a pr, leaving aside the assumption its faked in and of itself it means very little about alignment as long as its not a shield for using words which that isnt yet.

I disagree in that I think faking necessarily gives off scumminess, but I think the point is moot short of a way to prove the veracity of the claim.

---

it is a reasonable request mr. spyro it isn't like I am asking you to make a youtube video of you riding a hoverboard dressed in a tutu while wearing a scubadiving mask. its a simple request!

This is a heavy/clunky as well. Same sense I got from Nahdia earlier. A little try hardish.

My biggest problem with Nahdia is from what I've seen her townplay she plays p... hmm what's the word? Confident? Blunt? Just more of "matter-of-fact" style. Like "X is doing this" "Y is town" "Z is scum". Here she seems to be waffly queen.

All I can say in response to this is that yeah,

that's pretty much on target with my standard level of sass I play mafia with

.

Nah here it def seems more... controlled and carefully planned out. Just overall extremely contrived.

I get the sense that either Dunn/Nahdia are scum partners or that just one of them is scum. Something is not sitting right re: their interactions with one another. Both players appear very awkward when speaking about the other. Either because they are partners or because one of them is scum and is unsure how to best position themselves given the spotlight that has been trained on them. I'd encourage others to read over these last few posts and see if you get the same notions or if I'm just suffering from confirmation bias when I connect Dunn to Nahdia.

283 in particular just throws up all sorts of red flags.

So in 302, you've reduced "the hate" on Nahdia to some kind of meta argument, or at least ones with with meta undertones. That's a gross misrepresentation of it, but sometimes people forget/don't follow things, so maybe town-spyrex posted 302 as just a hand-wave because you weren't paying attention.

RC mentions this in 343, with a focus on his own arguments. You brush this off in 353, defending 302 as being about the other arguments. RC replies in 636 emphasizing his own arguments saying that he's the one voting so you should be considering his position when making 302, rather than dismissing it because of meta in someone else's argument.

You then post:

My biggest problem with Nahdia is from what I've seen her townplay she plays p... hmm what's the word? Confident? Blunt? Just more of "matter-of-fact" style. Like "X is doing this" "Y is town" "Z is scum". Here she seems to be waffly queen.

Gee how could i think meta was involved

Im just a poor emotional non speaker though

So now we're to understand that it was SAD's hate you were talking about, and that this single post completely justifies it because meta was "involved." I bring this up, I get:

No i said the nahdia hate was nonsensical and based on some meta bullshit

Which it is

I'm glad you think I'd need a team plotting to figure that out and to figure out you're a non entity

Even out here in the bush we can skin a carcass

Even if you want to change "I don't understand the nahdia hate" to "I find specifically SAD's hate for Nahdia nonsensical, because 258 suggests that there's a meta component, even though this surely arose after 40/88." Then how do you fail to recognize that just maybe people might not interpret 302 in that bizarre way to such an extent that you decide the best route is to insult me, since clearly I should have figured that out even though it makes absolutely no sense. You're even requiring that in this post I continue to accept that you still don't believe any nahdia hate outside of SAD existed.


And now we have:

...

229 was not meta. The suspicion on 20 was not meta. You could have called the reads wrong, but instead you posted 302, which you still could have backed out of if you had actual reasons for dismissing the read, but then 641 came where 302 is totally justified because one statement about nahdia involves meta.

Did i say some of it was meta? Yep
Did i say all of it was? Nope
Was rc talking about the meta part? Yep
Am i hearing whirrs and clicks? Yep
Is this all I'm gonna say about this? Outlook seems likely

You didn't explicitly say all of it was, but you sure wanted it to seem that way if you actually recognized a non-meta component. RC was not talking about the SAD's meta part at any point.

Here's a pro-tip: When you're scum and feel you want to throw out a "Gosh, I don't understand why <town players> are scumreading <town player>," back out of it gracefully when you're called on your rubbish

And if you think insulting me is a great way to make your wagon go away, you're very, very wrong.

[Kagami]

I don't understand why you haven't made a script to handle that stupid post restriction.

[Kagami]

something like this in excel:

<in cell A1> I'm nacho, I might be scum here and am ignoring kagami outside of some sideways shade-casting
<in cell A2> =SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(A1, "F", "Ffff"), "R", "Rrrr"), "f", "ffff"), "r", "rrrr")

copy&paste from A2.

[Kagami]

=SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(A1, "F", "Ff"), "R", "Rr"), "f", "ffff"), "r", "rrrr")

slightly better.

[Kagami]

Better example, since I somehow created a sentence with no Fs or Rs.

<in cell A1> I'm nacho, I am ignoring kagami despite generally having some respect for her reads.
<in cell A2> =SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(A1, "F", "Ff"), "R", "Rr"), "f", "ffff"), "r", "rrrr")

[Kagami]

Somehow I believed I would enjoy this playerlist.

[Kagami]

I forgot how awesome my avatar is. First post I liked all game, zito, though that obviously wasn't your intent.

I think playing without avatars might actually be affecting me. Little laughing kagami is so nice to see.

[Kagami]

I have no idea about camntsuki, but I want them to be town? I don't think spyrex's argument against them is anywhere outside the realm of town-them.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow regardless if what I hope is the case is the case, Mollie.

[Kagami]

Ok, I want {spyrex, zito} dead.
I will vote {dream, Dunn, infinity, camn} if deadline looms and the alternative is a No Lynch.

Wouldn't vote anyone else. (daypassing Nacho, though maybe I'm wrong to)

[Kagami]

I guess it's kind of unlikely that both spy and zito and scum given spyrex->zito interactions, still my favorites.

[Kagami]

I haven't thought about infinity much beyond that he's been oddly popular. It looks like zito started a thing there and somehow the sentiment just didn't get dropped.

[Kagami]

Nothing in infinity's iso is particularly impressive, but it looks like he's gotten more flack from some clumsy early voting than he probably deserved.

[Kagami]

I think 302 was a throwaway townread@town which he didn't really think about and didn't have a good explanation for. Then he just didn't think dismissing the criticism would snowball.

[Kagami]

VOTE: Zito

Prefer to dreamz.

[Kagami]

The only thing that suggests town nacho to me is that he seems keen on keeping the people who know him best in the game. He said he has a time problem, so I'm OK with giving him a day since there are decent alternatives anyway.

Agree with the above sentiments regarding Staeg. RC might just have time issues, which I can relate to.

Zito continues to be the correct lynch to my mind, and the gap between him and drealz is growing.

[Kagami]

Why do you guys think multi ball is likely, out of curiosity

[Kagami]

When is the deadline now?

[Kagami]

That just means role madness. Are you writing drealz off as town because he claimed something in this pt you seem to have?

[Kagami]

Thought fate aid he was extending.

[Kagami]

Who suggested multi ball and generated that reason?

[Kagami]

Dreal suggested it too, so I suspect the idea was bouncing around your hood. That reason is terrible, but there is a good reason to think multi-ball.

[Kagami]

There is no mention of a specific bad guy faction anywhere, and the alignment indicator in our roles very conveniently allows for any number of bad guy flavors. I've been considering the possibility for a long time and now suddenly the idea has popped up with little sensible reasoning.

[Kagami]

I'll cut in, since I'm about to go to bed and this finally opened.

I used to have a piece of the orb, the north piece, which I gave away last nigh. Orb pieces can be transferred by being given as a night action, or to one's killer if the holder is killed, or to the hammerer if one is lynched.

The orb peeve came with no instructions, but I imagine we're not supposed to let scum collect them.

[Kagami]

Just read my pms, btw. Interesting.

[Kagami]

I'm kind of at an impasse because as of right now I see town in virtually everyone.

Somehow, I'm having the opposite problem.

[Kagami]

I want to doubly emphasize that if Town caused the day to end, that needs to be claimed.

[Kagami]

Better example, since I somehow created a sentence with no Fs or Rs.

<in cell A1> I'm nacho, I am ignoring kagami despite generally having some respect for her reads.
<in cell A2> =SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(A1, "F", "Ff"), "R", "Rr"), "f", "ffff"), "r", "rrrr")

I’m sorrrrrrrrrry. I’m herrrrre, I’ve been strrrrruggling because I haven’t yet fffffound my grrrrroove with this game/haven’t had fffffun lately, but I apprrrrreciate and see yourrrrr rrrrreach out and I’m moving to do betterrrrr now. I’m not scum.

@mollie because mobile

[Kagami]

I like today's spyrex.

[Kagami]

I think now is a good time to talk about what happened yesterday, since no one has claimed the action, and everyone has posted. I don't understand how no one except spyrex seems concerned by this, but whatever.

1071 is the "final" VC of the day. The VC suggesting the day ended when Zito was at L-1, together with the flavor text surrounding it, tells us that this was not a govern, but rather that the Day ended early, presumably because someone made it end early. Whoever did it managed to squeeze it in between Camntsuki's vote in 1067 and Dunn's vote in 1069, which is a 15 minute window, so it was almost certainly done as soon as zito hit L-1 by someone who was present at the time, was watching fairly vigilantly, and wanted to make sure it was used before zito was lynched.

No one has claimed the action, so scum probably did it. If scum did it, then they blew an extremely powerful role Day 1. For whoever said scum can't have this role, I've only ever seen it once, with scum-ActionDan having it in one of FG's touhou games. Our beloved katsuki was scum with AD in that particular game, so I shouldn't be the only one who remembers it.

I think this means two things: Firstly, that zito is indeed scum. It wasn't some foolish townie who saved him, it was scum. They used a super-powerful ability to do it, too. It would be incredibly stupid to waste that if zito were town, because any number of things could have happened to foil that. He could have had an awesome PR that he could have used to do some obviously town thing, he could have been investigated in some way that showed him to be town, any number of things could have happened that would have left scum high and dry when they could have allowed a nice, happy mislynch to go through on someone who easily could have been a strong town PR. Secondly, it means that the partner who saved him was active in that window, which probably rules out Zito himself.

There's only three possibilities that I can think of for zito being town. One is that some dum-dum saved him and isn't owning up to it, which they hopefully do if I'm wrong here and wasting valuable words. Two is that town-Zito saved himself, he jumped in during exactly that 15 minute window and ended the day, and he decided not to say anything while doing it nor doing anything to suggest that maybe we should be lynching elsewhere, and then he posted today without owning up to it. Third is that scum had this power as a Day 1 only thing, which is kind of stupid from a design standpoint, and I still don't think they'd save Zito for WIFOM.

VOTE: Zito

[Kagami]

I have a PT with Mollie where I've already said this, and she's working very hard to save zito and deflect toward Nacho.

She has Dunn as super-duper town, and, like dunn, has jumped down my throat if I mention any possibility of dunn not being town. The only reason for that is that she perceives that he is trying to sort things out. She wondered how I knew she had a PT with Dunn (I don't know why she thought that, I never said anything implying it), and after ignoring my first request, told me he neighborized her last night for a single night, which makes his power very similar to mine.

I had neighborized her because she claimed to get something from it, but there's been absolutely no mention of any benefit. I gave my orb piece to mollie, which was a mistake.

[Kagami]

That's kind of goofy, but yes, that's possible. That doesn't really change much beyond making Dunn's vote substantially worse. Still makes zito scum since he had such a power and never saw fit to mention it as he got run up.

I don't actually think it's a Day 1 thing, that was just me trying to come up with all the counter-arguments I could generate to zito-scum. I consider that to have such an improbable prior I'm willing to discount it.

[Kagami]

-____-

I disagree, and the VC suggests not a govern anyway, but I still don't see how that affects the conclusion.

[Kagami]

I interpreted Dunn's vote as an orb grab, which suggests town to my mind, but the SAD kill really feels like something Dunn would do and it's incredible to me that someone would recognize zito's danger and act decisively in that 15 minute window when typically one would expect a request for a claim.

It might be as simple as a reflexive thing though. Still means zito scum.

[Kagami]

Mollie-Dunn thing is super weird and Dunn having almost my exact role is concerning. idk. Zito is scum though, and I'm pretty happy to work from there.

[Kagami]

Why isn't Dunn's vote in the VC?

[Kagami]

I don't think this really makes a lot of sense, and it seems very strange that some generic protection would be implemented as a "hammer vote gets negated" and that fate's eod post flavor really doesn't reflect "this guy was supposed to die, but super magic saved him."

I saw lots of things addressed to me, which I'll get to when I can, but in general there somehow is a massive communication gap between us, mollie.

I'm more LA than usual this weekend, because of the mit mystery hunt. I feel better about nacho, mollie, which I know you don't want to hear. I don't understand why a turtle mystic is a tiger, though, but at least this PR is much better than the last one.

[Kagami]

Hi guys,

Mystery hunt was awesome, the theme was D&D, and reminds me that maybe we should set up a mafiascum team in the future, or have a mafiascum satellite to a team. I was entirely remote this year, and it was still great.

Thankfully nothing much happened over the weekend except that I've warmed up substantially to spyrex/desp, which I was already feeling Day 2. I have some setup stuff I want to talk about in a minute, too.

[Kagami]

General thoughts:

I like spyrex/desperado. This and I think Mollie are my two favorite slots for town. I was getting very weird vibes from mollie in the PT, but having the weekend to think things through leads to think I was probably right in the first place. I revealed the orb thing just because I was suspicious in the context of zito-obvscum, not for any great reason. Thankfully, Mollie's slip meant that it didn't matter anyway, I guess, though i hadn't noticed it and it's pretty likely scum wouldn't have either.

I get Zito, and have been thinking about the claim. I think I actually buy it, but I have some qualms, not the least of which is that regardless of alignment, he's getting to endgame, which I'm not crazy about. I think he gets a pass because the claimed power may or may not fit into the setup depending on how other things go.

Dunn is the read I'm most tearing my hair out over. "Bad argument but from a town place" is not enough for Dunn, I had the exact same thinking over and over in the large Dance, and it turns out that's just the way Dunn is. He makes ludicrous arguments as scum that are obviously ridiculous, but seems to really, really believe them. I imagine he does the same as town. The orb interactions look townie, specifically the hammer vote if we assume zito-town. That he gave the orb away means something, and I had the same thought, but I don't get why he finished the post after I already said what was needed to say, unless the point of everything was to make that post. There's something else that seems like a strange choice to me, but I forget if that's already been mentioned. Beyond that, I agree that his behavior looks townish, so idk.

Camntsuki I think I still am ok with. I don't have any specific things that jump out either way, but I think their take on the spyrex things is somewhat town-indicative. I'm probably going to neighborize you guys tonight, iirc I've done that before and it was fun.

Nahdia, town read is fading. If infinity is town, then she's done nothing. I thought the antagonism toward mollie would be an unlikely take from someone who would surely have been told not to butt heads with if she had player summaries coming from a scum PT to work with. I also thought there 302 was a strong spyrex->nahdia WK implication, but spyrex was prob town, so shrug.

Nacho I'm beginning to like a lot more than yesterday, I don't really want to go into specifics about what I'm seeing there.

I liked RC for a while, I'm hoping he makes a glorious return.

I think the best reason to townread drealz is that his day 1 shtick is pretty ballzy for new-scum, but it still makes absolutely no sense to crumb orb possession as town. I don't even understand how, from a town perspective, one decides to go that route unless he gave away the orb and has not mentioned it. If he kept the orb, then it indicates that he has no fear of being NKed for it, which just isn't something that town would thinking about, especially in the context of someone who has thought of very little outside of how shiny his orb piece is and how fun softing things is.

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

I'm down for a drealz lynch or infinity lynch.

Also have setup thoughts.

[Kagami]

Ok, so orbs:

I think it's relevant that SAD died despite drealz and dunn both obviously having orbs going into N1. Unless both drealz and dunn are scum, which seems extremely unlikely, scum doesn't care too, too much about collecting. Whoever said giving orbs away is not a super town-tell is probably correct.

I would guess that scum just wins if they get them all, but apparently they don't think it's super likely. Could mean orbs all started in town hands. Def means non-groupscum has at least 3.

From a design standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to start with any orbs without another party who wants to collect them, and I don't think that other party would be town. If town got something amazing out of them, we'd probably have been told what they do. It makes some sense for them to have to hunt down and kill 4 specific people (without an orb carrier getting lynched), since then the game isn't likely to end too early due to orb collection, so that actually seems possible.

My favorite theory, which is one I was kicking around yesterday, is two orbs for town, one for one scum faction, one for another scum faction, which is more or less how the shards of the shikon jewel worked in inu yasha. Only one kill means that we're prob not in multiball, but it's still possible that there's a third party floating around who specifically interacts with the orb. Strong chance this is Zito, btw, if that turns out to be correct. Lack of a second kill suggests that such a third party would steal them, which probably would have come out by now since they'd have targeted dunn or drealz (unless dunn passing stopped a theft attempt).

In the absence of that, I'd guess all 4 orbs started with town.

[Kagami]

(so I'm spirit voting infinity atm)

[Kagami]

Most of the fallout of the dunn claim is not something he could possibly have predicted as scum. If he was lusting after an orb piece he thought you had, why not kill you last night, and why give away his piece?

[Kagami]

Spyrex did something to SAD? Did I miss that?

[Kagami]

My memory was staeg, camntsuki, nahdia, dreamz.

Saw the Spy->SAD thing, had forgotten about it.

[Kagami]

Need a block of time to go over that.

I think I addressed mollie stuff before the hunt began, though.

[Kagami]

not the least of which is that regardless of alignment, he's getting to endgame, which I'm not crazy about. I think he gets a pass because the claimed power may or may not fit into the setup depending on how other things go.

Just to be clear, the talisman was a one-shot passive. I'm not protected by it anymore.

That's a shame, I'm sure it would be protecting you from lots of NKs in the coming nights.

[Kagami]

Do we have any real objections to the Infinity lynch?

I'm going to actual vote him, and we should probably designate a hammerer.

[Kagami]

but not having to respond is part of what makes the lynch so good :<

[Kagami]

I think I know why what happened with Mollie happened, and I don't see any value in further discussing it.

If you think there's something that's related to my alignment in there, then I'm willing to answer any fairly specific question that requires less than two lines to address and isn't designed to force me to say not-so-nice things about other players.

[Kagami]

If you think I'm being a baby here, then I don't know how to help you.

I don't get how you could feasibly feel manipulated by me when you demonstrated absolutely zero interest in my thoughts in what was an extremely well-intentioned reachout.

[Kagami]

I open a PT for you which you requested, I post walls of thoughts about what's going on, I get jumped on because one theory I presented included Dunn being scum, which you are certain is false for reasons that I couldn't possibly have been aware of at the time.

[Kagami]

And I didn't know zito had a legitimate excuse to vanish at the time.

When he did show up and presented an excuse, it was about his kid being sick. I don't know where the funeral thing came from. Funeral I'd have probably been less skeptical about if that's correct. (and when I say skeptical, I mean skeptical that it's mafia-halting; e.g. my older child happens to be sick too, atm)

[Kagami]

I'm going to pursue this in the PT.

[Kagami]

I nom Dunn for hammerer.

[Kagami]

I will admit that I'm not enjoying this game as much as I thought I would.

I would love for nacho to show up again with the mlem mlems and territoriality. That's been my favorite part.

[Kagami]

Gosh, I wonder why not, mollie?

[Kagami]

I agree with Dunn, btw.

[Kagami]

We can "hash it out" when the weekend is over, since I feel like I'm not going to get support on this with one-liners

[Kagami]

Time manipulator

[Kagami]

Guys, I'm out for the evening, but to clarify things,t I received Dunnstral piece N1, and passed it to nacho last night.

I was pretty confident he was town and didn't want to have a piece for reasons I'll go through on Monday.

[Kagami]

if you have a pt and are listening to what kagami is saying, post game will be sweet when I get to post all of the shade she has thrown at you and how 2 faced her play has been. unless she is just trolling in a mean spirited way. I just don't think that kagami is mean spirited which is why I am so confused about her.

Perhaps you should just go over all the shade I've thrown at Dunn. You can also explain your comment in 1790, which I'm very interested in.

[Kagami]

o.o

I expected some fireworks, Desp, or something. Do we get to find out what the orb does?

[Kagami]

I sent you the air orb last night, desp.

[Kagami]

Going to confirm with fate, but I couldn't have been blocked.

[Kagami]

Going to confirm with fate, but I couldn't have been blocked.

Fate says I don't have the air piece, and I attempted to send it your way, desp.

[Kagami]

I make a new hood every night that lasts for a day/night cycle, but I had two last night due to another player's ability. Haven't had a hood with mollie since D3 began.

Both knew what I was going to do, but I consider one to be hard-cleared given no death.

Still doubt the other is scum.

[Kagami]

Also, neighborization hit my intended target.

[Kagami]

Idk, I just know that I sent the piece to desp and I neighborized last night.

Neighborization worked as intended, and I don't have the piece anymore.

[Kagami]

I have further reason to think desp is pretty much conf-town, too, so I imagine shenanigans?

[Kagami]

Drealz, I was told last night that there would be protection on Desp, which seems pretty likely to be the explanation for the No Kill. That's probably not a sensible road to go down unless you think there's a fairly elaborate gambit involved.

[Kagami]

Drealz, something that's concerning me is that there's something missing from your wagon analysis that seems like it should be pretty salient to you.

[Kagami]

Dreal, I'm expecting a little more depth in your VCA.

[Kagami]

I have that expectation because it seems like you must have come up with the VCA point against zito during yesterday's discussion, but it feels like you looked at the final VC of yesterday, made the point, said "meh, that's good enough." I expect town-dreal to dig a little further rather than just kind of stop there.

Like, does Desperado/Spyrex's anti-infinity position look like bussing? Does zito's vote look especially scummy, and why? Are there any other awkward positions you think we should be zero-ing in on?

[Kagami]

Btw drealz, I really appreciate 2158, which is a terrific post that I would never make myself.

[Kagami]

Mollie, can you go over how you got the postscript in 1812 from what could only have been 49-51 in our PT?

[Kagami]

And 3rd party orb thief seems unlikely, the orbs' locations have been known and not lost.

[Kagami]

That makes sense only in the craziest way that seems vaguely plausible.

I said "you knew dunn would hammer" because anyone reading the game knew that dunn would hammer, yet you claimed to have been oblivious to that. I was not at all unhappy with the hammer, and completely saw it coming. "You guys" did not include Dunn, who I had decided at that point was probably town. It was you who claimed to be unhappy with the hammer, so I don't get why you'd say it was I who said that in 1812.

[Kagami]

This is mind-boggling...

I know nothing about your role beyond that you seem to have been lying to me D1.

I used "you guys" to refer to you plus a presumed partner.

You specifically said "not happy" as I faithfully transcribed above; I didn't say your read changed. You said that I was not happy with dunn's hammer in 1812, which is not what I said, it is what you said.

I see in your earlier tracking of actions that you recognize that I gave a "piece" to Nacho. That means I gave him my piece, which was given to me by Dunn N1. We're using "pieces of orb" and "orb" interchangeably. There are 4 pieces to the orb.

[Kagami]

You didn't tell me anything about your role unless I completely missed something.

[Kagami]

Why couldn't you target zito n1?

[Kagami]

It's in 42, I didn't see it at all.

[Kagami]

Shadow portal, shadow flavored pt name too

[Kagami]

VOTE: staeg

The claimed flavor is even directly opposed to mine, nahdia.

[Kagami]

No, I'm saying that I make neighborhoods by joining shadows, staeg apparently breaks hoods by bringing light. The role seems to exist only to interact negatively with mine, dunn's, mollies, and by whatever joined you and nacho, all of which seem to be town aligned.

And PoE leads me here anyway.

@staeg

Did I miss you refuting the zito-saved-by-time-zito-saved-by-time-manipulation theory? Because it sounds like you had mod confirmation that it's false.

[Kagami]

Alright, not a lot of time, but I'll say what I can.

Firstly, lots of people already know my role. I'm A Ninja, Turtle Mystic; I have one and only one ability flavored Shadow Portal. It is a night action that creates a neighborhood for the following day/night phase. I've passed orbs as well every night so far, so there's probably no "one action" limit.

I think Mollie said that I have some additional power? I'm not sure where that inference comes from.

[Kagami]

Desperado, I'm town and think I've done a pretty good job of making that clear. I don't know why the orb didn't get to you.

Staeg is almost certainly scum. I don't understand why you think he wouldn't claim something close to his real role. Shaman mafia did not have "real" fake claims, just a list of unused flavors and a town tracker template. I think even the scum's actual flavor was safe enough, as it looks like it might be here. I'm not sure there's anything clearly unsafe about "Chaos Mage" and if there is, then that makes staeg's claim all the worse. He probably doesn't realize it, but I'm pretty sure Fate isn't referring to a hearthstone card with "lightbringer;" Staeg has claimed Lucifer.

I'm going off memory going forward since I don't have time to double check until the weekend is over, so if anything further is wrong, say so:

I don't remember the thought being continued, but it's pretty relevant that apparently staeg tried to target Zito and Fate said "No, you can't, he's the lynchee," because that's not what the final VC of Day 1 says. It says the day ended and no one was lynched. When Zito showed up and said "I was actually lynched and was protected from it and for some reason fate indicated this by leaving the VC at L-1," Staeg knew he was telling the truth and said nothing. The next day when Dunn said "hey guys, maybe there was time manipulation and the day ended earlier, crickets once again. (iirc)

Has there ever been a point where staeg clearly was trying to manipulate the votes to use his "must be pro-town" ability? Why didn't he say in post #1, "hey guys, we need to have a few votes on the non-lynchee every night for my power to work, so let's keep that in mind before lynching?"

There have been two missing NKs which are probably desp last two nights in a row. As far as I can tell, people who were "in the loop" with regard to protection were Dunn, Nahdia, Myself (N3), and I'd guess Mollie or one other (communication networks, btw, are the only thing worth continuing to claim for this reason). It's very very likely that the scumteam was simply out of the loop.

[Kagami]

If staeg were town and I were scum, I would be inviting people into a PT flavored "Shadow Realm" every night, which is obviously the diametric opposite of Staeg's "lightbringer" probably-PT-killing role. It would be beyond horrible design for me to be flavor-confirming myself as opposite-of-town-power every night, and for something as weak as a neighborization.

[Kagami]

Nahdia, who knew desp would be protected N2?

[Kagami]

That only seems that way because you're not thinking things through, Desp, and I'm doing my best to make things clear, while you're poo-pooing me for reasons that I don't understand. Your beliefs simply don't make sense and you're not helping me help you get to the bottom of them.

I misunderstood staeg's claim as a strictly night action, but that doesn't make anything I said less true.

Let's say you're Staeg and you receive this PM:

I am a Light Warden, a Turtle Mystic.
I can listen to someone's Soul Frequency at the end of any day to learn about a Connection they have if they have ~enough votes~. I also apparently have the ability to sever their connection at night (if I could find one).

You're right if you are scum. you think "looks like I can deneighborize people if they get enough votes. That must mean there are a lot of town neighborhoods and I probably shouldn't say anything about it unless I have to."

But if you are town with that PM, you read it and think: sweet jesus, I can probably detect scum PTs and cut them off! I'm a cop! I'm better than a cop, even, because I don't have to worry about godfathers! All I need to do is make sure that someone I want to investigate has "enough votes."

Why do you then say nothing? Why on earth would you be worried that there's some scum role that is somehow better than this and that you should keep quiet about what would likely be the most powerful town role in the game? Why would you think this only affects neighborhoods when you have no reason to believe neighborhoods exist nor any reason to think cutting them off would be a smart thing to do.

[Kagami]

And let's take a look at 1200. Yes, I was wrong here, but obviously I didn't know that at the time.

Staeg, however, did. By any interpretation of that ability, he would have targeted zito in twilight and been told zito was lynched and is thus invalid. If it's a day action, then it's inconsistent with Dunn's dreamtime.

Why do you then post

and I still don't think they'd save Zito for WIFOM.

I disagree with this part. If it's a day 1 only thing they would definitely use it and then not claim it to send day 2 down the drain as well.

Anyway, I disagree with some of your premises - for one, I believe it's very possible that some roles have trigger-on-X-event type abilities, such as "end the day when [pool of people] reach L-1" and Fate simply wasn't around in the 16 minutes before the next vote.

[Kagami]

I don't think scum got fake claims. Maybe fake flavors like Shaman mafia. I had put infinity at effectively L-1 for a long time and I'm pretty sure he'd have claimed if he felt comfortable doing so.

[Kagami]

Staeg is also just scum by play and by PoE. Yes, his flavor is directly opposed to mine as well, which in the absence of fake-claims and anything else, would probably be good enough. But reducing my argument to that is disingenuous and you know it, desp.

[Kagami]

Kagami, are you reading my posts?

I admit to skimming substantially, especially this last weekend.

Let's go over how your ability works again.

Is it a day action, or a twilight action? Did you attempt to target zito, or just assume that he was lynched and thus untargetable? Why is your N2 result on presumably Drealz not valuable to share?

[Kagami]

I've barely been here because we've been lynching on monday/tuesday and opening the thread on thursday/friday.

I simply can't post much on weekends.

[Kagami]

and that's fine

but you can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm not saying I have an encyclopedic understanding of everything that's been posted, but I know that you're wrong here, and you're simply not giving me a chance for reasons that, as far as I can tell, are that my orb piece went missing.

You're giving staeg this incredible benefit of the doubt because of this claim, and I don't understand why. You're attacking me and ignoring points against me that you know are ridiculous.

If you want to tell me more about why Staeg is town, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. That his claim is too scummy to be scum (and it really isn't scummy at all if it were presented from a town perspective) is simply not a very good reason.

[Kagami]

I AM trying and I WAS trying in my short period of time posting.

I can tell you why I'm town. I am telling you why staeg is scum. I can't say where my orb went, only that I don't have it and attempted to pass it to you. I have theories about that, but every time I post a hypothetical, I've gotten jumped on.

What haven't I cleared up that you want cleared up?

[Kagami]

Mollie will, you're going to love our PT post-game.

[Kagami]

Ideas already discussed this a bit in my current PT:

Can't be conventional redirection, because I neighborized as intended. Could be orb-only redirection, but that seems unlikely.

Busdriver only makes sense if the scumteam are idiots. They'd have to have targeted with the NK despite also busdriving you.

We generally agree that Desp's belief that only one scum redirection power is plausible is misguidied.

Direct theft is possible, but doesn't make a lot of sense. They'd have to have targeted me instead of Desperado, and only two other players knew that I had a piece (though it's vaguely possible it was inferred), whom I both think are town. They'd have had to believed that the kill would go through, which seems kind of silly if they targeted desp the prior night. Fate confirms in PT that pretty much any night action would be applied prior to orb giving.

Zito presented a role that seems pretty possible, which is an interception based role. Someone targets Desp and intercepts all orbs gifted to him.

[Kagami]

mollie will respond in our PT first i'm sure

let's hear it

Ok, that probably explains everything then.

[Kagami]

Don't know, but word on the street is that zito didn't go anywhere N2, so not him at least.

I don't know what the structure of scum roles really is, but given that infinity had two powers, staeg seems possible.

[Kagami]

Could be drealz if drealz is scum, but I don't think his play is scummy at all.

[Kagami]

So Desp, given Staeg's play since N2, what result would you guess he'd gotten on Drealz N2?

[Kagami]

I had mollie as town D1 and neighborized her because she claimed she needed a PT and I assumed I was the only neighborizor.

Sometime in D2 I got sick of the rubbish I was having to deal with, and then she magically flipped from "drealz is obvscum" to "let's help my best buddy desperado on infinity after kagami has already effectively put him to L-1 and he's now obviously going to be lynched," which is when it was full-on scumread.

I've backed off that mostly because it actually seems pretty plausible that Mollie is town and has misread or misinterpreted pretty much everything I've posted, and it would be a little too clever to both give Desp her orb piece and attempt to kill him on the same night.

[Kagami]

If the result is "no connection," that could easily mean Drealz is town.

[Kagami]

O, and I have no issue with addressing question marks with regard to mollie PT stuff if there's any specific complaint. If I somehow get a huge block of time, I'll just paraphrase the whole thing.

[Kagami]

But I think you should probably directly query whatever it is that's so questionable.

So what is the actual result, what's the motivation for being cagey?

[Kagami]

It hasn't been addressed because I find it ridiculous, distracting, and tiring to deal with. In the same general format as the discussion surrounding 1812 is exactly where I expect everything to go.

[Kagami]

You didn't "disagree" with my reasons for giving nacho a pass, you gave me paragraphs about how I could not possibly think what I'm thinking.

I tried to clear up the SAD NKA thing. I said that SAD clearly had a latent scumread on Dunn, not a null read, and that it would make a lot of sense for Dunn to have killed him. You just yelled at me about that, and sorry, but I still think my observation was correct.

I didn't ever say "this makes dunn scum and I am scumreading him," that was a hypothetical explanation for the SAD kill, which struck me as an odd kill at the time. You told me that I'm scumreading him and throwing shade at him and that it's completely crazy and Dunn was obvtown. I later asked why you thought so and you gave me a bizarrely superficial answer for the amount of anger you expressed at even conceiving the possibility he's scum.

I missed your claim, which was buried deep in a very long post that you're correct that I missed. I probably would have caught in on review it if I hadn't posted a few more "trying to clear things up" posts (43 and 44), which you happily railed on and got up on some super high horse in 45. Then you practically scumclaimed, as far as I was concerned, with the infinity lynch followed by innocent "O gosh, who'd have guessed Dunn would hammer" act in (48-51).

I'm not happy with the treatment of nacho. Yes, RC pulled the trigger, but Nacho wasn't being scum-Nacho like you were insisting, and if you weren't railing on him, RC might have shot elsewhere and made this game infinitely friendlier. He wasn't being town-nacho, but he wasn't being scum-nacho.

I play this game to have fun, mollie, and for a short while, it was fun. I have a PT partner who I get along with, and I had one last night (he was even pretty fun as a scum-PT partner in the dance). If you want to think I'm scum, go ahead, but you can't expect everything to be all flowers and roses when you do nothing but assault me in a PT that I made with you instead of someone like Nacho or katsuki, and do this hot-and-cold act of "I hate everything you say, now let's try to work together, ok I hate everything you say, why aren't you talking to me???!!"

[Kagami]

And don't tell me I'm the bad guy. I was nothing but friendly and cordial. I wanted Yarrrrgami v2.

I posted unfiltered thoughts from 1 to 17, then you entered the thread with nothing but hostility.

[Kagami]

If the result is "no connection," that could easily mean Drealz is town.

nope

my connections have nothing to do with my role at all, they've been set up by someone else

If Staeg is town, the scum PT is a connection.

[Kagami]

If Staeg is town, the scum PT is a connection.

ok

but i'm town and i have a connection

so...?

I think you need to review the claim, especially if you think scum are trying to eliminate it. I think you should also reconsider what a town-aligned player would be thinking upon receiving it while having no other setup information.

[Kagami]

There's something wrong with the communication lines. What happened last night doesn't seem possible unless there's another hood out there, or some communication traveled through a scum PT, or someone is lying.

[Kagami]

Dunn, how did you know Desp was being protected without knowing it was nahdia who did it?

[Kagami]

Scum eavesdropper explains a heck of a lot, so I think we should get to the bottom of where any mystery hoods came from.

[Kagami]

Scum eavesdropper explains a heck of a lot, so I think we should get to the bottom of where any mystery hoods came from.

Ah, you're saying that scum could have eavesdropped on the conversation between me and you? (if they targeted me or something) I know they definitely don't have just passive eavesdropping on all hoods

Not that one, but my other PT, where it is known I had an orb and was passing it to Desperado. If they were listening to ours, they'd have known that Desp would be protected.

The question about how you knew the protect would happen is just because I don't understand how that was possible without there being another hood going on. I think that's probably worth clearing up, because there must be another mystery person who was in the "Desp is being doc'd" loop.

Dunn is the person I meant with "hard clear." I had thought he was saying that on the PT

he

would be protecting Desperado last night, I didn't realize that he meant someone else was going to do it until Nahdia claimed. PT partner requests anonymity (as I've already told Dunn) for reasons and I'm not going to unilaterally deny that.

[Kagami]

Hi guys!

Anyone want to claim 3rd party?

[Kagami]

The master survived only because he is one with the unreal, you who are married to your forms will not be lucky~

[Kagami]

So lucky*

Bah.

[Kagami]

VOTE: camntsuki

[Kagami]

Well, zito helped.

[Kagami]

Fun fact, I could have won with town if I had held on to the orb last night

[Kagami]

Wouldn't be fair to drealzy, though

[Kagami]

dead pt?

[Kagami]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70007

[Kagami]

Fine with releasing scum PT, btw.

[Kagami]

Shadow realms are frankly more interesting. Scum pt isn't terribly exciting.

[Kagami]

mollie realm here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70006

[Kagami]

It's a very swingy setup, with Infinity and Zito's roles being super powerful, while town has a lot of investigatives and the ability to share information easily.

I'm not crazy about the orb mechanic being entirely secret to all factions. It also introduces a lot of swing where discovering the superpowers is mostly randomish.

[Kagami]

You never had the chance to get into the game, nacho. I loved the tiger PR.

[Kagami]

Drealz was more or less conf-town on D3 if my understanding was correct.

He claimed two blocks on Nacho, N1 and N2. The second one must have stopped nacho's transformation, which means something happened to it on N1. N1 Desp claimed to be blocked, and clearly Nacho wasn't, so either drealz-scum was lying in a really silly way, or the he was the flipped scum redirector's target.

[Kagami]

Pretty sure that's what I submitted for you, infinity.

[Kagami]

O, revenge on Dunn and sad, rawr rawr.

[Kagami]

I tagged him during the day and his head asplode at the end of the next day.

[Kagami]

What does purifying do?

[Kagami]

Would staeg have had a guilty if he targeted zito d1?

[Kagami]

Basically a guilty since he would have to claim no hood when asked day2.

Tag was placed d3 on desp, mollie. I got it from holding the air orb die a night. We were all passing orbs so much that no one had ever found out that the pieces can grant powers.

[Kagami]

D4, I meant.

[Kagami]

I think the stars aligned a bit for nahdia's gambit to be successful. I'm not sure it's a particularly strong play, but it was undeniably effective.

I think it's much stronger as scum play.

Nahdia's role was super powerful, though.

[Kagami]

If you've neighborized a flipped scum, it immediately becomes nonscummy.

If you neighborize two scum, you're likely to end up with a couple of guilties unless they guess your role and act convincingly.

[Kagami]

My role was pretty boring, too.

[Kagami]

Was there a way to get a tag other than holding the air orb for a night?

[Kagami]

I feel like a lot of depth in the setup was likely last due to the orbs coming without an instruction manual.

[Kagami]

I'm pretty sure anyone called "the master" would understand the importance of good documentation.