Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)


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Post Post #2457 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:13 am

Post by shadonra »

Hi!

I'm shadonra, I played one game on this site before (newbie game Stop and Go, I was scum with TTTT)

I've been following this game since Day 1, so I'm just gonna reread Day 3 and start posting. One question to start off -

Why is there a wagon on Impo? The only justification I saw was Titus's no result, which is IMO an
insane
reason to be lynching this slot today.
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Post Post #2459 (isolation #1) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:20 am

Post by shadonra »

After day 1 I was pretty sure scum was Shannon + ssbm_kyouko, but game progressed strangely and I'm not sure anymore. That's why I want to do some rereading now
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Post Post #2461 (isolation #2) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:30 am

Post by shadonra »

I don't remember.

LUV was town and his reads were nearly the opposite of mine, and I'm not sure I reevaluated accordingly.

Ur my only scumpartner <3
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Post Post #2463 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:59 am

Post by shadonra »

what the hell i just said i'm rereading day 3, are you saying you didn't give a reason to vote anywhere there?

jesus dude, slow ur roll
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Post Post #2464 (isolation #4) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:01 pm

Post by shadonra »

VOTE: shannon

I finished. I could still go for kyouko, too. I can't figure out gerry and TTTT at all. Rask looks town - I really like his case on shannon. Not sure at all what to think of Titus, but if this is her scum play, it's really... inspired. Sesq and Drone seem like town, too.

Titus, why did you start the wagon on me based on a no-result? What do you think of Rask's argument that shannon pushed back pretty much until you revealed who you targeted, and then backed off?

@Others wagoning me:
Why? Especially gerry and TTTT, who have not given motivations.
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Post Post #2466 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:34 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2465, shannon wrote:Sorry I've not been here much, I fell ill yesterday and posting properly just seemed too hard. I'll be back tonight with a proper response for Rask.

Welcome, Shadonra. I like your entrance.

Can you tell me more about your read on SSBM? Now that you've pointed it out I feel like that's one player who has been at the centre of things but who no-one has really bothered to look at.
I went back and started rereading day 1 to try to remember why I was scumreading him. I don't see it anymore. I only see more and more reasons to townread him (notably - rb tried to flip the wagon on him a few times). I'm reasonably sure the scumteam is you and Gerry.
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Post Post #2467 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:36 pm

Post by shadonra »

Oh,
@Drone - Did you talk to rabbit in your private chat day 1 at all? What did you say there?
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Post Post #2471 (isolation #7) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:11 pm

Post by shadonra »

I didn't like what I saw of Kohai on D1. As soon as Gerry replaces in he posts a bunch of LAMIST and is generally impossible to read, then he wagons LUV and delivers this post
In post 2016, gerryoat wrote:
In post 2015, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:We already hit a scum so right now its 9 town:2 scum. If we don't kill Titus today and she's not scum, mafia will almost certainly kill her because she has a GS shot left in her. If she gets a guilty and we follow it tomorrow we'd be at worst 7 town:2scum with Titus confirmed scum for faking a gunsmith guilty. If she's scum she'll probably claim a "No Gun" result on someone to avoid having to bus her only remaining teammate.

VOTE: LUV
I think we can do this today after all. Claims have shown he's not who I thought he was when we woke up D2, back to my associative reads
^^^^^ this is SCUM. HE SAYS IM MAF AND THEN VOTES MY SCUMREAD
and doesn't unvote.
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Post Post #2472 (isolation #8) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:13 pm

Post by shadonra »

I did not get a good read on TTTT in the game he replaced into. There was pretty much one interaction before the game ended.
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Post Post #2474 (isolation #9) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:31 pm

Post by shadonra »

I didn't work hard reading you that game bc we were both scum. This game, your reads and pushes have been different from what I would have done, but I don't really see anything that points to you being scum.
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Post Post #2479 (isolation #10) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:00 am

Post by shadonra »

I think it'd be fairly insane from a setup perspective if only one of Titus/Drone were scum. I think there's two ways that can go, assuming that they've been neighbors from game start:
1) Both town (more likely, IMO)
2) Both scum (I don't see any reason to make this gambit, and neither of them seems like the kind of person to go for it)

I think the only way that exactly one of them is scum is that Drone is a mafia neighborizer. This is why I asked him about his day1 chat.
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Post Post #2488 (isolation #11) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2487, gerryoat wrote:The person voting me is most likely town and that makes me sad.
why are you voting me
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Post Post #2495 (isolation #12) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Post by shadonra »

the wagon on me is shameful tbh. still no one has answered why they're on it.
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Post Post #2500 (isolation #13) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:31 am

Post by shadonra »

@Mod Please prod Titus. She hasn't posted since Tuesday.
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Post Post #2501 (isolation #14) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:35 am

Post by shadonra »

@shannon, TTTT
You scumread Titus for that crazy play? I don't see at all why scum Titus goes for that instead of simply claiming no result due to getting roleblocked. It reads more like a reaction test to me, which I consider shannon to have failed.
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Post Post #2505 (isolation #15) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:51 am

Post by shadonra »

answer my damn question
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Post Post #2507 (isolation #16) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:54 am

Post by shadonra »

Gerry, but I've addressed it to the entire wagon on me too, so it'd be great to hear from anyone
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Post Post #2525 (isolation #17) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:01 pm

Post by shadonra »

I don't think we should ever lynch Titus unless Drone flips scum first. I don't really want to flip Drone either, tbh, but there's an outside chance that scum are Drone/Titus, so it might be worth it at some point. Kyouko, Sesq, Drone, are you willing to lynch shannon today? I've given up hope of convincing Titus and TTTT
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Post Post #2530 (isolation #18) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:36 am

Post by shadonra »

In post 2528, Titus wrote:Impoetic has 5 for lynch.

I only want Impoetic.

This rush to save him is bad. That slot cannot be in lylo.
If this is your reasoning, I can't really fight it. Just kill shannon tomorrow, please.
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Post Post #2566 (isolation #19) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:51 am

Post by shadonra »

In post 2552, Drone wrote:
In post 2483, Raskolnikov wrote:@Drone
What do you think of shadonra?
I'm actually not so fine with Shadonra wagon. Unlike Impoetic.

@Shadonra
TTTT, Gerryoat or Kyouko?

Same question for you Raskolnikov.

I want more from Shadonra before he's lynched.
I would take Gerry. I think he's been worse than TTTT overall, and I didn't think kyouko looked that scummy on reread (but his perspective on the game was like upside-down to me. Sesq is here too sometimes)

Going to new year's lunch, back later
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Post Post #2579 (isolation #20) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:26 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2551, shannon wrote:Look someone needs to move if we're going to get a lynch. I'm prepared to do it, but I want an answer to this first:

What is the point of a two-person neighbourhood if both people in it are *always* town? What makes it different from a masonry, but for the lack of formal confirmation of the other's alignment? (What I mean is: Why would you choose neighbours instead of masons, if neighbours are always town too?)

Greens below are what the wagons look like from my perspective right now, if I follow you all and say T+D are both town. I think Gerry and TTTT are not a team, so I'm wrong someplace. Gut says Titus scum; head says that Drone is probably a better choice if we *really have to* lynch in that pair and in case I'm wrong about Titus.

The only people I 100% won't compromise on to are Rask and Sesq. I 90% won't go SSBM, I have null reads on TTTT and Gerry.

UNVOTE: to show genuine intend to change if reasoned with.

Putting all of the above out there in case I'm lynched or NKed, it's Sunday evening here so the Day could plausibly end while I sleep tonight.
If you are nullish on both Gerry and TTTT, why are you willing to lynch TTTT now and not Gerry?
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Post Post #2580 (isolation #21) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:39 pm

Post by shadonra »

@Rask How do you feel about lynching Gerry?
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Post Post #2583 (isolation #22) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by shadonra »

Sorry, I misread your vote post.
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Post Post #2589 (isolation #23) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:41 pm

Post by shadonra »

VOTE: Gerryoat

I don't see why we can't lynch shannon today, but fine. Number two.
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Post Post #2643 (isolation #24) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:45 pm

Post by shadonra »

I adamantly refuse to lynch ssbm today. Feel free to turbolynch me if he flips scum, but I don't see that happening.
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Post Post #2650 (isolation #25) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:01 pm

Post by shadonra »

Where the hell did this kyouko wagon come from? Titus went from not wanting that lynch to wanting it because of associatives with my slot, which has not been confirmed, + his throwing shade at the neighborhood? I hate this wagon. I agree with Titus that it'd be a crazy scum plan to pretend they're a neighborhood, and I agree that we shouldn't lynch Drone today. But I don't think that being sketchy on the neighborhood is scummy, especially when Titus herself didn't trust Drone for like two days (and still, I think). Can we not lynch ssbm today?
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Post Post #2654 (isolation #26) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:10 pm

Post by shadonra »

I do not understand how Titus's no-result on me clears me for town. The argument given here for why ssbm is scum is one of the weakest I've ever seen. I am extremely not understanding why we are not lynching you today.
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Post Post #2655 (isolation #27) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:10 pm

Post by shadonra »

@shannon
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Post Post #2657 (isolation #28) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:16 pm

Post by shadonra »

(thanks for the quote, btw, shannon - I'm not trying to be mean, just a bit frustrated..)
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Post Post #2732 (isolation #29) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:05 pm

Post by shadonra »

VOTE: shannon

I'm totally not interested in lynching ssbm and having titus scumread me tomorrow, too. No. If you agree with titus, lynch me instead so we can get rid of this stupid tunnel. I'll self-hammer if you get me to L-1.
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Post Post #2733 (isolation #30) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:06 pm

Post by shadonra »

*if I can't get shannon by deadline instead, I mean.
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Post Post #2736 (isolation #31) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:13 pm

Post by shadonra »

SSBM, I think you should stop trying to lynch the neighbors today. If they're in LYLO we should consider lynching them, but until then I think we should make scum shoot there. Get on shannon.
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Post Post #2737 (isolation #32) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:15 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2735, shannon wrote:
In post 2732, shadonra wrote:VOTE: shannon

I'm totally not interested in lynching ssbm and having titus scumread me tomorrow, too. No. If you agree with titus, lynch me instead so we can get rid of this stupid tunnel. I'll self-hammer if you get me to L-1.
If you're town this is so far against wincon it's not funny
I don't agree. I think untunneling Titus will go a long way towards town wincon, I am fairly confident ssbm isn't scum, and I agree with Titus that my slot is dangerous in lylo.
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Post Post #2756 (isolation #33) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:57 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2753, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:I pounced on you before I knew who you targeted because you were withholding information from us. No result does not mean guilty, and no organic thought process would lead you to believe that, let alone lead you to believe that I'm specifically scum for attacking anti-town play before your target was revealed, especially when there were several players pushing you for that. You're still ignoring the case on Drone and ignoring my claims that you're ignoring it. Doesn't even matter if we no-lynch at this point because if I'm NKed town will lynch you 2 and if I'm lynched they still will. If I'm left alive I'll just get you tomorrow. You guys are finished
You're being just as obstinate as Titus. If the neighbors are actually the scumteam, they're caught. We can kill them at lylo after we've ruled out every other reasonable pair. But can we goddamn
lynch
obvscum shannon, PLEASE?
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Post Post #2765 (isolation #34) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:30 pm

Post by shadonra »

Sesq, vote shannon with me.
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Post Post #2772 (isolation #35) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2769, Sesq wrote:
In post 2767, shannon wrote:If Sesq or Rask would like to let me know which wagon they think they're going to end on, I'll vote there now. I've got maybe 10 minutes and then I've really got to get back to work :(
I really don't like making definitive claims, as I like to be dynamic and open-minded with my reads, unlike the person I'm currently voting for. And for the reasons mentioned above, I'm With Her™ to the end of the day, most likely.
I don't think that what you're saying about Titus makes her scum. I also don't think that a Titus wagon will or should go through, especially since she's a claimed PR with a jailkeeper shot left. Please vote someone who might die today.
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Post Post #2781 (isolation #36) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:09 pm

Post by shadonra »

VOTE: gerry

i like this
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Post Post #2785 (isolation #37) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:12 pm

Post by shadonra »

yes please
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Post Post #2793 (isolation #38) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:32 pm

Post by shadonra »

wanna all unvote and see if we can make the wagon move even faster
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Post Post #2794 (isolation #39) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:33 pm

Post by shadonra »

it took 10 minutes last time i bet we can get it down to 2
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Post Post #2796 (isolation #40) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:33 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2795, Titus wrote:Both scum are voting this.

Not hammering.
that's impossible for you see, one of the scum is the target of the wagon
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Post Post #2799 (isolation #41) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:41 pm

Post by shadonra »

also, i'm town, because shannon is the other scum
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Post Post #2805 (isolation #42) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:54 pm

Post by shadonra »

i didn't look for anything like that, i think shannon is scum and i think gerry is the most likely partner
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Post Post #2808 (isolation #43) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:56 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 2803, Raskolnikov wrote:Both of these are stupid

gerryoats was literally rb counterwagon d1
i dont see how this clears him for you, unless rb or shannon started the gerry counterwagon d1? i don't remember who was on that early
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Post Post #2854 (isolation #44) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Post by shadonra »

That's the hammer.
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Post Post #2858 (isolation #45) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Post by shadonra »

die scum gerry die
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Post Post #2926 (isolation #46) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:21 pm

Post by shadonra »

Don't hammer yet, please
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Post Post #2928 (isolation #47) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:25 pm

Post by shadonra »

you're actually right, i won't miss the chance next time

not this time tho
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Post Post #2931 (isolation #48) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:28 pm

Post by shadonra »

I cannot see a strong town motivation for Titus not using night ability, but SSBM points out a strong scum motivation
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Post Post #2932 (isolation #49) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:28 pm

Post by shadonra »

Actually it's not a really strong scum motivation either, because it's JK not doctor
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Post Post #2933 (isolation #50) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:30 pm

Post by shadonra »

TBH, I had townreads on both of these people, and I agree it's pretty impossible they're both town. I want to give Rask a chance to weigh in before we decide tho, I think I'm way worse at this than he is
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Post Post #2937 (isolation #51) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:40 pm

Post by shadonra »

Sorry, I thinko'd. I realized that JK can't claim guilty and blankly thought doc could for some inane reason
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Post Post #2964 (isolation #52) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:02 pm

Post by shadonra »

I'm VT.
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Post Post #2965 (isolation #53) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:05 pm

Post by shadonra »

Popcorn claim? I want shannon next.
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Post Post #3007 (isolation #54) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:17 pm

Post by shadonra »

Post in a few hrs when I get home. Quick thoughts

- I still think Titus is town
- Kyouko dropped to lean scummy and shannon went up a bit after yesterday
- Starting to suspect Rask
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Post Post #3010 (isolation #55) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:24 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 3005, shannon wrote:
In post 3001, Raskolnikov wrote:I think it's a fakeclaim here. The setup seems townsided after the doctor flip and titus has a reputation for claiming crazy things and creative play in general.
She's still alive d4 and didn't jailkeep anyone last night apparently which is straight up dumb after doctor died... Not jailkeeping shadonra makes sense with how much she expressed the scumread (and apparently ascetic) but you'd at least jailkeep kyouko if you see them as partner and they're heavily townread and a possible NK to boot.
Titus is a really experienced player and even though the conviction makes it sound like she believes what she says I think it's not that hard to fake, given the simplicity of her arguments.

It's weird too because fluffy seemed benign enough and I really liked titus pushing shannon when I got in but I'm definitely not sure on that one anymore. Probably not the most reliable tell there is tbh.

That said, now of all times shadonra's actually kind of gone quiet even though his entrance was pretty good. Given he's being hard pushed by titus who's leading wagon he should really give his thoughts on all of this. I want his analysis and some stances here as opposed to sheeping.

If today's a mislynch this becomes pretty much unwinnable so today HAS to be done right. Would be a bit more comfortable with this if titus didn't rocket to l-1 as fast as she did either.
^^This
This doesn't actually make any sense
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Post Post #3011 (isolation #56) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:49 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 3002, Drone wrote:The choice of Impoetic and for gunsmith and the result seem like a safe claim.
This can add up.
Again, we can be horribly wrong here, but the doc flip points she did fake claim.
Since she's this good, I'm confident with the lynch.
She'd be bashing me and dissing me hard for voting her if she'd be town.
Can you explain this part? I don't understand how claiming no result = guilty on Impo is a safe claim. I assume by doc -> Titus fake claim you mean that the setup is townsided, but from my POV I know there's a roleblocker. I don't like the rest of your post, but I don't have Titus meta so I don't feel like judging you on this.
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Post Post #3012 (isolation #57) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:00 pm

Post by shadonra »

I think the strangest thing that happened today was that TTTT got nightkilled.
Impo/Shad - mislynchable
Titus - Town could be convinced to lynch neighbors in LyLo, probably
Drone - ditto
Rask - Seems too town to be alive, tbh
Shannon - mislynchable
kyouko - kinda null, doesn't seem strong enough town to NK
Sesq - I expected this or Rask to die.

I think the nightkill points towards Rask/Sesq, and slightly towards Titus (strange things apparently point to Titus)
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Post Post #3020 (isolation #58) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:26 am

Post by shadonra »

I'd lynch Drone first out of those 3. Drone might be my top overall choice for lynch, I have to think about it more
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Post Post #3074 (isolation #59) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 3073, Titus wrote:If you lynch me, force Shad to vote first. Beyond that, I am getting frustrated as hell finding his partner.

Kykoko, why the fuck do you keep suggesting yourself as scum?
Perhaps this is because I'M NOT SCUM.
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Post Post #3077 (isolation #60) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:07 pm

Post by shadonra »

VOTE: Drone

I like this the best.
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Post Post #3095 (isolation #61) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:29 am

Post by shadonra »

I'm not happy with this hammer, but -
Titus, I really want to see your reaction in the postgame/dead thread.
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Post Post #3113 (isolation #62) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:01 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 3110, Drone wrote:I was interested in voting Titus last day because, as I outed she didn't target anyone.
There's no town motive in doing that.
She then asked me to fake a target.
There is if you believe, as Titus appears to have, that I was scum ascetic.
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Post Post #3114 (isolation #63) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:06 pm

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Not sure who I want between Drone/Kyouko. Leaning Drone. Not sure either is scum actually
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Post Post #3179 (isolation #64) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:41 pm

Post by shadonra »

I was slightly suspecting Rask + Sesq with my last post, but not enough to post it. If it weren't rask/sesq I didn't want to carry water for scum dropping a scumread on Sesq. Urgh. WP scum!
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Post Post #3181 (isolation #65) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:55 pm

Post by shadonra »

In post 3180, Raskolnikov wrote:but I guess it's plausible scum took a new player to lylo to try to exploit.
That was my guess, but I didn't get much scum vibes from Drone or Kyouko.
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Post Post #3182 (isolation #66) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:56 pm

Post by shadonra »

I'd probably have not mentioned the Sesq scumread and pushed it in 3 man lylo.
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