WWE Mafia - RAW (OFF TELEVISION)

Ms Columbo · Post Post #44 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:42 am

Hi, all.

VOTE: malpascp For participating in the wrong brand...bring that sarcasm over here.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #51 (isolation #1) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:53 am

In post 50, ThinkBig wrote:VOTE: McMenno

I don't think you can vote but the lynch countdown is now longer in effect.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #56 (isolation #2) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:12 pm

@ThinkBig and @All Alone
Within the first 10 player posts, both of you vote for Nero Cain. Is voting for Nero something that is standard here?

@McMenno - Your day actions and first vote were cast on the first two players who posted. Did you plan that? Was there another/different reason for either of those players?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:16 pm

In post 28, Banana Mint wrote:I have voices in my head, they talk to me!

But do you talk back? Are they giving you any insight on who is scum?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #60 (isolation #4) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:41 pm

In post 53, DodgeTheSaint wrote:
In post 45, Kmd4390 wrote:Dodge, I don't see it. Why is narna scum? I hope you're not stretching the "can be scum" line to say it's an active decision to scum read me rather than a statement of a read. That's the closest I can come to figuring it out.
Oh no it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with not giving any real reads on this game, but deciding the other game was more important to give a read for. (I don't really count this vote on you as much of a read, but that's not the point)

In fact I doubt it was a decision to have a read on anything. This screams "I need to post a read for the sake of posting a read" with the added bonus of posting a read for the other game, so as to not commit themselves to anything solid against this playerlist yet. Like a bad boyfriend, I find lack of commitment to anything extremely sketchy.

The other game isn't really relevant to what we're doing here, so I am already inclined to treat anyone who spends a significant amount of time trying to interact with the other game so early as scum. What makes Narna so egregious here though is that he does it on Page 1 to try and normalize this under productive behavior early. (Mcmenno notwithstanding, but his sin has nothing to do with his foray into the other game)

Am I missing some meta? Narna provided the same level of detail on her reads here as the one for the other brand which was minimal. Seems like a lot to extrapolate based on that one post.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #62 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:49 pm

In post 54, malpascp wrote:
In post 44, Ms Columbo wrote:Hi, all.

VOTE: malpascp For participating in the wrong brand...bring that sarcasm over here.
Have you ever drunk-posted?

Lol, is that what happened? It's been a long time since that's been a thing for me.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #68 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:19 pm

I'm traveling tomorrow and family Christmas on Friday. Should be able to check-in, but time will be limited.

Night all!

Ms Columbo · Post Post #116 (isolation #7) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:11 pm

In post 70, All Alone wrote:
In post 56, Ms Columbo wrote:@ThinkBig and @All Alone
Within the first 10 player posts, both of you vote for Nero Cain. Is voting for Nero something that is standard here?
Not that I'm aware of. During RVS I'll often vote someone who already has a vote on them, because in my experience random wagons are more informative than random vanity votes.

Can you explain why you asked this question?

Trying to get a feel for how well players know each other and interact. Nero had not posted yet, so curious why he had two votes 11 posts into the game. I assumed it was due to some familiarity with him. Turns out, it was a bad assumption.

Similar type of question here:

In post 93, Narna wrote: I liked your 21 a lot, but I'm not a fan of this.
Thinkbig was asking for it
; it was hilarious.

@Narna - How was Thinkbig asking for it?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #182 (isolation #8) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:46 pm

In post 121, Narna wrote:
In post 116, Ms Columbo wrote:
In post 93, Narna wrote: I liked your 21 a lot, but I'm not a fan of this.
Thinkbig was asking for it
; it was hilarious.
@Narna - How was Thinkbig asking for it?
He was first to step into the ring with Kane lurking.

Thanks. Please give me a bit more. I am caught up and see that you voted TB.

First - For clarity, are Kane and McMenno (Not_An_McMenno_Hydra) the same player?
Second - Does TB have enough experience here to know that McMenno was apt to do something like this?

Here's my thought on the TB situatio: I chuckled a bit at McMenno's first play - a player having the chutzpah to do that straight out of the gate. However, I understand why a new player or someone who does not have a history with McMenno would feel attacked and might overreact (at least initially.) Now, if TB has a history with McMenno and players who know him expected such a move, than TB's reaction looks a little scummier. The back-and-forth fizzled soon enough that I mostly found it NAI.

If TB is new, I get why someone might defend him or find McMenno's move problematic. If it's general player knowledge that TB 'should have know better', then those who support TB do not make as much sense. I don't lean McMenno one way or the other for that move.

What I don't understand is those who read TB as town. Here is my paraphrase of the 9 posts he made:

Spoiler:

What in that convinces someone he is Town? I understand a null read, but not town.

As time progressed and TB did not participate (other than to request a V/LA), I'm starting to wonder if he is struggling to post as scum. It's a hard call to make with all the potential holiday stuff. Then TB requests a replacement.

The players who find TB town are: kmd and AllAlone/Lil Uzi Vert

My take on AllAlone was he voted on McMenno more for what McMenno did than his read he on TB. When Lil Uzi Vert subs in his first read includes this:

In post 154, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Pages 1-2

- TB's reaction to the dayvig thing is NAI as Penguinos pointed out in 32.
Ever since he has started improving, he has been a lot more serious about things for whatever reason so I wouldn't read into it
.

What? How is anything in those limited posts (see spoiler section above) starting improvement? How is that town? This is pinging me. I also find it interesting that kmd and Lil Uzi Vert are town reading each other. Possible scum = TB/kmd/Lil Uzi Vert? I doubt it's that simple, but it's what sticks out to me now.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

To be fair, I did like Lil Uzi Vert's reaction to Dodge. This felt like he was trying to see things from Dodge's perspective. Typically, I don't think scum does this well.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #235 (isolation #9) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:30 pm

In post 183, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I was talking about his improvement over the course of the last month. His reaction to McMemmo didn't ping me at all because I've watched him become the kind of player to overreact to things like that. He's also still fairly new and inexperienced.

I don't recall ever giving a read on him by the way.

Context sure makes a difference. I thought the "ever since" was in reference to first sentence:

"TB's reaction to the dayvig thing is NAI as Penguinos pointed out in 32.

Ever since

he has started improving, he has been a lot more serious about things for whatever reason so I wouldn't read into it."

I read that as 'Ever since [TB's reaction to the dayvig thing] he has started improving".

I thought it strange that someone would sub in and try to paint BG as town in that manner. Seemed like scum trying to paint his partner in a positive light. I read that as indicating he was town.

Your explanation makes sense. In that light: UNVOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Ms Columbo · Post Post #237 (isolation #10) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:45 pm

In post 191, Kmd4390 wrote:
Ms columbo, my town read on lil is news to me.
I didn't realize I had much of a read on him. So thanks for clearing that up. Also, yeah, thinkbig town is my steongest town read in the game. It's obvious why he was so bothered by mcmenno's action, but if you can't figure out why, I'm not going into it. Maybe scum can't figure it out either. The replace out is a bit more than mildly annoying though. This kind of thing is why people who replace out shouldn't be allowed to join new games for at least a month.

You're right, that was my mistake. Your town read was on All-Alone, who lil subbed in for. Same slot, different player. With lil's explanation, my theory has fizzled.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #240 (isolation #11) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:56 am

In post 239, Vince McMahon wrote:
Vote Count 1.07
Malpascp

(2/7)
- Ms. Columbo, Kmd4390

Not Voting:
Banana Mint, Nero Cain, Malpascp, Ms. Columbo

@mod - I am not voting Malpascp. I'm listed twice.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #242 (isolation #12) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:32 am

In post 237, Ms Columbo wrote:
In post 191, Kmd4390 wrote:
Ms columbo, my town read on lil is news to me.
I didn't realize I had much of a read on him. So thanks for clearing that up. Also, yeah, thinkbig town is my steongest town read in the game. It's obvious why he was so bothered by mcmenno's action, but if you can't figure out why, I'm not going into it. Maybe scum can't figure it out either. The replace out is a bit more than mildly annoying though. This kind of thing is why people who replace out shouldn't be allowed to join new games for at least a month.
You're right, that was my mistake. Your town read was on All-Alone, who lil subbed in for. Same slot, different player. With lil's explanation, my theory has fizzled.

In post 238, Kmd4390 wrote:Oh, wow. The mistake is mine then. Didn't realize he replaced All Alone.

@all - Does Kmd do this as scum? (didn't realize that lil had replaced All Alone)

The reaction feels natural. First thought - this seems town.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #284 (isolation #13) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:26 pm

In post 278, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 277, Penguinos wrote:Sorry. Honestly this is my first time playing as a hydra and I don't want to commit too much while my other head is absent.
This post is pinging me harder than any other in the thread. I'm trying to see your logic there but can't.

~A50

I agree. I think it's a mistake to downplay this because it's odd thing for scum to say. Look at Pengiunox's last four posts.

Spoiler:

It seems like one long stall.

VOTE: Penguinos

Ms Columbo · Post Post #304 (isolation #14) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:34 am

In post 250, light_ganski wrote:Hey all. Will get caught up in the morning

In post 261, Banana Mint wrote:I am Hiplop. Gonna catch up tomorrow morning

Would be great to hear something from both of these before lynch. Please indicate where you weigh in so we have some sort of a stance on D2. Right now you're both a blank slate. Would be nice to hear from McMenno as well.

UNVOTE: Penguinos (for now)

Ms Columbo · Post Post #305 (isolation #15) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:37 am

@light_ganski
@Banana Mint
@McMenno

Please see the above post

Ms Columbo · Post Post #312 (isolation #16) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:13 pm

In post 265, Narna wrote:Vifam isn't a rookie. He isn't going to just quote his role pm

haha

Finished skimming the Smackdown thread. Wondered about the whole role pm thing. Viafm is looking scummy.

I subbed into a game with Tywin. He was town, his play feels similar here. Haven't seen his scum game.

In post 310, Narna wrote:
This brand is moving at a snail's pace, and there are reasons beyond lurking in the case of you and light.

Penguinos is back to L-1. I don't want to drag this out if we are ready to end it.

@all - Should we wait for light and banana or do I go ahead and hammer?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #329 (isolation #17) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:40 am

In post 328, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 278, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 277, Penguinos wrote:Sorry. Honestly this is my first time playing as a hydra and I don't want to commit too much while my other head is absent.
This is why I'm getting negative vibes here. It feels like someone doesn't have the confidence to carry the slot on their own for a while and are afraid of messing it up and getting blamed for it. And who feels like that? YEP! Players with RED text in their PMs.

VOTE: Penguinos

P.S. Someone correct me if I'm seeing too much into it. Thank you.

~A50
This is what started the wagon and I don't see why a lack of confindence in this situation can't come from town.

What do you think of Penguinos's reaction once the wagon started?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #339 (isolation #18) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:43 pm

I will hammer on Sunday around the time Nero's closer would have went into effect. Banana and light show no signs of participating and I'm not sure what else we need to discuss.

Happy New Year!

Ms Columbo · Post Post #354 (isolation #19) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:46 pm

In post 350, Almost Chara wrote:
That leaves us with Titus (primary pick) or Vifam (alternative pick).

~A50

I'm concerned about Viafam. I have a hard time believing that an experienced town player would quote (say word-for-word) their win condition. My understanding is that would typically get a player mod-killed and the mod-kill did not occur because scum had the town win-con. IMO Vaifam is a candidate for a policy lynch. The fact that she is still alive makes it seem like she is scum.

I do agree that it would be good to know your submissions so that we can read up on your picks.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #356 (isolation #20) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:28 pm

In post 317, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Now's a good time to talk about the draft then yes?

My main concern of course is drafting a scum player puts us into LyLo if we fail to flip scum.

How does drafting a scum player put us at LyLo?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #357 (isolation #21) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:51 pm

In post 280, malpascp wrote:Maybe I'm just rusty or something but AC's post just blew my mind. It makes no sense to hide anything at all if you're town. The only reason to be afraid of your other head saying "hey dude you shouldn't have said this" is if you're scum. Or poor reasoning.

Why didn't you vote? It's a strong statement to make and then not vote.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #366 (isolation #22) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:10 pm

Bickering about stalling seems pointless. I think we've hit the wall of useful conversation. And while I do want a response from mal, he indicated V/LA until the 6th.

Dodge's play made me chuckle.

I do agree that our brand would be better off without someone who would try to monopolize the conversation.

VOTE: Penguinos

Ms Columbo · Post Post #372 (isolation #23) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:29 am

In post 371, malpascp wrote:
In post 357, Ms Columbo wrote:
In post 280, malpascp wrote:Maybe I'm just rusty or something but AC's post just blew my mind. It makes no sense to hide anything at all if you're town. The only reason to be afraid of your other head saying "hey dude you shouldn't have said this" is if you're scum. Or poor reasoning.
Why didn't you vote? It's a strong statement to make and then not vote.
Because of my last sentence. He could admit it was poor reasoning. Or someone could point a flaw in my reasoning. Either way I'm always cautious when putting people at L-1 as I've met my fair share of lolhammers, and also the wagoning was strong with this one (not that I disagree with it happening).

I can understand that. It's just that at the time of the post, Penguinos only had one vote. There wasn't a real wagon yet. What would applying some pressure hurt?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #446 (isolation #24) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:28 pm

Busy weekend, I will catch up Monday evening. It looks like we've finally got some conversation going.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #490 (isolation #25) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:17 pm

In post 387, Vifam wrote:
In post 368, Narna wrote:Draft vifam, and you die

I'm battling sleep so not sure if I'm making sense.

I seem to be the only one (besides narna) who thought vifam's win condition situation on Smackdown was a scum play.

@vifam - Can you say anymore on this?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #491 (isolation #26) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:39 pm

In post 400, Vifam wrote:We should just lynch someone that was on the penguin wagon

In post 427, Vifam wrote: I doubt scum passed up an easy wagon like Penguin, id say there's a high chance of one being there at the very least

Do you think multiple scum were on the wagon?

I agree that it's likely at least one scum was on the wagon. I can see more scum than not hanging back on this one and letting town lynch Penguinos. Their response to the pressure seemed scummy. Assuming three scum, it wouldn't surprise me if there was one on the wagon and two off.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #493 (isolation #27) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:16 pm

In post 392, Kmd4390 wrote:
Vote malpas

^nothing has really changed for me

Nero, why so sure on lil?

My first thought is on malpas. This part bothers me:

Spoiler:

@malpascp - I'm still curious, why didn't you vote at that particular time? When Penguinos had a single vote, not at L-1.

In post 407, Kmd4390 wrote:Nero can you be more specific? To me, it just looks like someone who doesn't agree with a wagon and maybe doesn't understand that no lynch is the alternative. Do you see any scum motivation in what he did, considering penguin was town? I honestly don't.

I'm also thinking that scum might go the route that Nero is suggesting. Some of lil's reads are opposite of mine, I'm not sure if that isn't clouding my objectivity.

Dodge's suspicion of Nero is not making sense. I need to reread that after some sleep. It's all starting to whirl together.

@Almost Chara - My thoughts are now mush. I'll get your request then as well.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #578 (isolation #28) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:20 pm

Sorry to all, I should have V/LA'd since Monday. Classes started and I've been swamped. I should be able to catch up late Thursday evening. Need to wrap up another game in the final day.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1177 (isolation #29) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:49 pm

MIA player reporting for action. I apologize to everyone, I dropped the ball.

Prod dodge until after work today (Monday evening). I have a lot to catch up. Let me know if you want me to focus on anything specific. I see we have match here and and the game ended on SD.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1207 (isolation #30) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:32 pm

OK, finally caught up.

I believe there are 2 scum left. More doesn’t make sense to me. And with that I believe that Vifam is conf-town. So I was wrong about the win-con bit on SD before he was traded.

I also think it’s likely that Almost Chara is town from a balance perspective given Massive's flip. And if Chara were scum, I think she’d be gunning to recruit scum here N2 after losing her buddy Leon N1. If scum knew all scum, it was too easy to pick scum instead of Tywin. And if scum didn’t know scum across brands, dang was her pick unlucky given her list. I’m pretty comfortable reading her as town.

MathBlade, I don’t know, I think they are misguided town. Mostly again based on game design, I think dayvig is more likely town than scum. They remind me of a football player who picks up the loose ball and runs with all their might towards the end zone. Problem is, they are running the wrong way and ignore all the screams from players, the sidelines, and fans warning them otherwise.

I can see LUZ being scum. It explains his odd behavior surrounding the Penguin lynch Earlier I was concerned that I was not being objective because our reads seemed so opposite. Perhaps I overthought it and the diametric views is because he’s scum. Speaking of LUZ, darn if Math doesn’t look like they are trying to defend their scum-buddy, but still think it’s more likely they are town.

I find myself agreeing with Mapl’s recent posts. For one, I don’t understand the town read on McMenno. I mean, I know why but I don’t agree. To me, his opening vote was NAI. I can’t see much to weigh on other than that. Null read on McMenno. I also found myself agreeing with Malp that the Dodge/Math interaction was TvT.

By PoE that leaves Pep, McMenno, and kdm. I liked pep’s interaction with Math on D2. I like a lot of kmd’s posts, but her take on the Penguin lynch – feels like we were playing a different game at that point. Not a strong lean among these three.

Ms Columbo · Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:34 pm

In post 1162, Almost Chara wrote:
And it was in response to your earlier suggestion in THIS post:

In post 745, MathBlade wrote:
Hint draft
Grey
.

Do not leave me undraftable
preferably NeroCain is undraftable.

Hope other team drafts me
.

That is my suggestion.
Now, you suggested drafting SCUM!Grey. Was it I who made you do it?

~A50

Does it make sense for scum-MathBlade to both push for a Grey draft here while simultaneously campaigning to be drafted? That is a 1-for-1 scum swap. Other than this, I can see the other arguments.

Ms Columbo · Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:42 pm

In post 1207, Ms Columbo wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Mapl’s recent posts. For one, I don’t understand the town read on McMenno. I mean, I know why but I don’t agree. To me,
his opening vote was NAI.
I can’t see much to weigh on other than that. Null read on McMenno. I also found myself agreeing with Malp that the Dodge/Math interaction was TvT.

EBWOP - McMenno's opening moves (not his vote) on ThinkBig was NAI

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1211 (isolation #33) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:50 am

Overdue answers to a couple of questions:

In post 524, malpascp wrote: @Ms Columbo: Why insist so much on me not entering Penguino's wagon?

Because scum might do that. Throw shade at a player to get players to look that way but never vote. I wanted your reaction.

In post 588, MathBlade wrote: And MsColumbo for that hammer. Explain it.

I explained it partly when I voted. When the vote went to L-1, we had two players who had said they would post the next morning and were each about 24 hours overdue. We hadn't heard much from either. I didn't want to go into D2 with nil on them so I unvoted. Over 2 days passed, still no word from the 2 players and the thread is devolving into a squabble between Nero and LUV about whether LUZ was stalling to end the day. Useful conversation seemed to have stalled, so I hammered.

Ms Columbo · Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:27 pm

In post 1226, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1220, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1193, MathBlade wrote:I prefer no lynch. As soon as I suspected AC AC gladiated.

I find the odds of LUV being scum to that slim to none.

I know I am Town.

If we have to lynch then I would say Uzi and if Uzi flips Town I propose an unofficial gladiator between AC and myself.

Six to Seven scum in a 26 player game (13 each side) makes sense.
Wtf is this post?

First you say that no lynch is better. Like how is it better? Even now, no lynch is pretty stupid.

Second you say that the chances of LUV being scum are slim. THEN you say that if we have to lynch, we should lynch LUV...

That is lolfull. (Considering that LUV is liz uni)

Correct.

If the only choices are Town or no lynch. No lynch is inherently better.

I know I am Town. That means unless LUV is scum it is a mislynch.

I know that you didn't suspect me until I suspected you and this was a big OMGUS.

So in all likelihood LUV is town. However if we do have to lynch then LUV is it because from my POV LUV is the only possible scum of us both.

I actually agree with Math on this. From their perspective, if they believe LUV-town, a no-lynch is a better option than lynching town (if they are town). It's also a better option for Math if they are both scum. Math should only want the lynch if
1. scum-Math and town-LUV or
2. town-Math and Math reads LUV as scum or null

And town-Math should prefer LUV's lynch over their own. So yeah, if Math is town, I believe it.

As far as the gladiator, Massive flipped town with this ability on SD. The fact that Almost Chara has the ability is NAI. The question is whether it's town/scum depending on when and how it's used. I see Almost Chara trying to weed out scum and picking two players she has scum reads.

Intent to hammer LUV. I'll be back after work on Wednesday evening.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1241 (isolation #35) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:47 pm

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Ms Columbo · Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:21 pm

My reads have not changed much.

Given the info we have from SD, level of scum hunting effort and general feel, I think Almost50 is town. I also still think MathBlade is town for possessing the dayvig. Their reasoning does not make sense to me, but still believe they are town. In some Twilight Zone world, if these two are the scum team, I give them a standing ovation.

I like what I see from both malp and Kmd. But something tells me one of them is likely scum. Because right now, my top two suspect for scum are McMenno and Pep. However, I don't think it is likely that they are scum together. If they are both scum, we were being played all the way back in the first posts with the interaction between McMenno and ThinkBig. Not impossible, but I don't think it's very likely. If McMenno and Pep are not a team then one of malp or Kmd are most likely the remaining scum. I haven't looked at what pairings make the most sense. Will attempt that after work this evening.

For now, I am most comfortable choosing between McMenno and Pep. Considering possible pairings will hopefully make it clearer which one is the better choice.

Ms Columbo · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:55 pm

I haven't had a chance to fully read for possible pairs. About 10 pages into a reread but not much stands out yet. Given pep and McMenno have the current focus:

How likely do you think the two are the remaining scum team?

My original thought was these two don't make sense as scum together based on the early interaction between McMenno and ThinkBig. ThinkBig's reaction to McMenno seemed genuine. Still find it unlikely this was svs interaction. Anyone think this was a play?

I think Kmd already answered my question:

In post 1281, Kmd4390 wrote:
If it is, I'll vote mcmenno but I'm not at all confident he flips scum. Malpa with math or columbo still makes more sense to me.

I get a bit concerned at the above because I think Math is town and I know my alignment. My guess though is this is town trying to sort the game.

@Kmd - Have you been reading the TB/pep slot as town since the beginning? (that's my leap from the the first 10 pages to these last few pages) If so, can you explain it?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1298 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

In post 1294, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1292, Kmd4390 wrote:Yes, I've never once questioned the slot and never will. I've never been more confident on a read in my entire mafia career than I am on pep being town.

Go back and look at thinkbig's reaction to mcmenno's shot again. He clearly shows that he knows mcmenno shot town. It's a stretch to say that that makes mcmenno scum, and it's bad logic on thinkbig's part, but you can see that that's what he truly believes. In thinkbig's mind, mcmenno shot town so he's scum. Then he can't believe that no one sees it and he replaces out. It was poor play, but it was obvtown. People tend to suspect poor play as scummy play, but that's because they refuse to try to get inside the player's head. Why, as scum, would a player who believes they are dying anyway inisist that they player who shot them was scum and do absolutely nothing else even when the shot is stopped? That's town who believes scum shot them.
If he knows who is Town and who is scum that makes the person who knows Think Big scum. Pep replaced Think Big.

I don't see how you get a townread off that.

Math - I didn't quite follow. What I hear Kmd saying is that ThinkBig's response was a response from someone who knew they themselves were town and being attacked. Think Big then assumed that the attack must be coming from scum (although if Town, he couldn't actually know it was scum.)

Ms Columbo · Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:28 pm

@Kmd - If I believe you and pep are town, from my perspective that means McMenno and Malp are scum (I believe Math and Almost are town primarily due to what we've learned from SD).

Does a McMenno/Malp team work?

Malp has thrown all sorts of shade on McMenno. Should town-Malp be committed to vote for McMenno by this point? Was Dodge onto something when he said this:

In post 988, DodgeTheSaint wrote: If McMenno turns out to be scum, I think Malp's random skeptism looks like bad bussing. Something to consider. (I guess I remember something about malp after all)

Malp has also indicated suspicions of pep and that he doesn't know which to choose.

In regards to Math, looking at the town/scum roles we see in SD and what we've seen so far here, unless the remaining town has some fairly strong PRs, I don't see a scum day-vig making sense in our brand. If it wasn't for that, I could see scum-Math.

@Almost - what do you think of a McMenno/Malp team?

@mod - how long is malp V/LA? Is pep V/LA as well?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1309 (isolation #40) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:25 pm

In post 1301, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1298, Ms Columbo wrote:
In post 1294, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1292, Kmd4390 wrote:Yes, I've never once questioned the slot and never will. I've never been more confident on a read in my entire mafia career than I am on pep being town.

Go back and look at thinkbig's reaction to mcmenno's shot again. He clearly shows that he knows mcmenno shot town. It's a stretch to say that that makes mcmenno scum, and it's bad logic on thinkbig's part, but you can see that that's what he truly believes. In thinkbig's mind, mcmenno shot town so he's scum. Then he can't believe that no one sees it and he replaces out. It was poor play, but it was obvtown. People tend to suspect poor play as scummy play, but that's because they refuse to try to get inside the player's head. Why, as scum, would a player who believes they are dying anyway inisist that they player who shot them was scum and do absolutely nothing else even when the shot is stopped? That's town who believes scum shot them.
If he knows who is Town and who is scum that makes the person who knows Think Big scum. Pep replaced Think Big.

I don't see how you get a townread off that.
Math - I didn't quite follow. What I hear Kmd saying is that ThinkBig's response was a response from someone who knew they themselves were town and being attacked. Think Big then assumed that the attack must be coming from scum (although if Town, he couldn't actually know it was scum.)
I don't see what you are saying because of what is in parenthesis.

Rephrase: Think Big automatically assumed McMenno was scum but was not in a position to actually know McMenno was scum.

Ms Columbo · Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:15 pm

In post 1310, MathBlade wrote:I am scumreading people making dumb arguments.
There is 0% chance Town has a gladiator and a vig and <redacted>.

How is Massive as town-gladiator on SD and masons with 2 (conditional) day-vigs, any less powerful or possible than what you just described?? The SD roles are 100% FACT. The assertion that there is a 0% chance of something comparable on this brand defies common sense.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1384 (isolation #42) » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:47 pm

@mastina - Welcome to the game!

@mastina and @kmd - My hang-up on Math is the confirmed day-vig. Do you really believe scum was given a day-Vig?

Here's how the roles played out on SD - before trading started:

Town

Maria - mason w/ Pepto, conditional 2 shot day-Vig
Pepto - mason w/ Maria, conditional 2 shot day-Vig
KT - insane doctor (50% chance to protect or kill)
Tywin - hated (-1 to lynch, lylo excluded)
Creature - loved (+1 to lynch, lylo excluded)
Gamma - could change roster once
IAI - reflect a day action
DS - Could use finisher in a death match
Massive (manager) - Modified gladiator and a couple minor others
Vifam - VT

Scum

Titus - role cop
Grey - goon
Zefiend - goon

On our brand we know:

Town

Nero - neighborizer
LUV - VT
Dodge - VT
Narna - VT
Penguinos - VT

Scum

Leon - bodyguard

Still alive

Almost (manager) - Modified Gladiator
Math - day-vig
Remaining players roles unknown

I just don't see how it makes sense to give scum a day-vig given SD roles and what we know of ours so far. That's why I am town reading Math. Apart from this, Math looks scummy. How would scum having a day-vig in this brand be balanced?

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1389 (isolation #43) » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:35 pm

In post 1386, mastina wrote:
In post 1384, Ms Columbo wrote: How would scum having a day-vig in this brand be balanced?
Because of town roles in the unclaimed.

I am one of them.

And I'm telling you I don't buy Mathblade's role as town.

OK, I still think the McMenno/Malp is a possibility. Malp has given McMenno lots of grief about his play but I don't think there was ever a serious push on him. I can see that interaction as being scum/scum. I'm not sure why scum!Math begs to lynch them first when scum!Math should know it wouldn't change anything. Although, I haven't understood most of Math's play this game, why should I expect it to change now.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1390 (isolation #44) » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:05 pm

In post 1388, Kmd4390 wrote:Columbo, I'm not exactly a balance guru. I just don't mod enough to do all of that. That's why I judge based on play. I'm confident that the scum are in you/malpa/math. I can't rule out mcmenno for sure, but I think he's town. Almost feels obvtown to me. And mastina is town. So process of elimination supports my trio of possibilities too.

For better or worse, I believe you. If you and mastina are the scum team - you are doing a heck of a job. I don't blame you for thinking I might be scum, my play after D1 has been bad. I didn't realize how hard it would be to play once work resumed after the holidays.

I hope you are right about Math, because if Math is town, we are set to lose to mislynch. I'm good with a malp lynch. I would like to hear Almost's thoughts first.

Regarding McMenno - I don't understand a town read. Is it a meta thing? I don't see any reason to town read him. That doesn't mean he has to be scum, but what in this game makes him town? If it's because of his opening play, I simply will never agree with that.

Ms Columbo · Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:13 pm

Checking in.

My role is essentially the same as DiamondSentinal in SD. I have the Interference ability described in Diamond's reveal. I did not use it during the match between Math and LUV because it wasn't necessary. I thought LUV was scum, he threw in the towel, and he was lynched.

@Mathblade - I think you mentioned this earlier, did you have to use your vig shot by a certain point in the game?

By PoE, I still think the remaining scum is McMenno. An outside chance it could be Math. If Almost is the remaining scum I am OK with losing to her.

I don't have sufficient time or functioning brain cells right now. I will provide rationale for my suspicions this weekend. I request that we not lynch anyone until then.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1492 (isolation #46) » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:32 pm

Here's how I see things.

If Almost is scum, the game is already over. She is not being lynched today. Tomorrow she uses her gladiator to end the game. I don't think she's scum so I'm not worried about this. If so, hat's off to her.

Whether Math or McMenno are the final scum, I think there is a good chance that Kmd survives the night and is the deciding vote D6. Scum will probably kill Almost N5 due to her gladiator ability.

If town-Math is lynched today and Kmd is not NK'd, scum has all but won. Kmd has decided that I'm scum. If both her and I are in the game tomorrow, we lose. For that reason, it may be best to lynch me today. Kmd will have the opportunity to see that she was wrong and hopefully reconsider her position.

More to come...

Ms Columbo · Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:43 pm

@kmd - Your read on McMenno is based on the motivation you assigned to a scum post made during RVS. From what I can tell it has nothing to with anything McMenno has actually done. He has skated by all game. That's a great way to play as scum, as long as no one calls you on it.

I did find humor in McMenno's opening play. I find humor in most situations. When McMenno made that play, most players knew right away that they had the same types of abilities. Which made it obvious that our finishers were not unique. Multiple players likely had them. However, Town-McMenno should not have known that when he used them. But if scum-McMenno visited with his scum buddies before posting, he knew his moves were not unique. Using the finishers out of the gate was not a big deal to scum-McMenno.

You were one of the few players that didn't have a day-vig finisher, so your initial reaction makes more sense.

Look at the interactions between Malp and McMenno. They throw shade on one another, at times toss a vote on one another, but neither ever make a serious push on the other.

If scum-McMenno is thinking ahead, his request for Almost to place he and I in a death match looks scummy. If Almost uses her shot today, she's out of shots and can't use it tomorrow. McMemmo knows that both you and Almost lean him town, so it was a fairly safe situation if Almost took the bait.

@Almost - I'm sure you know this, but if you survive N5, you should use your shot right away.
McMenno continues to encourage you to use it now or not at all. That the opposite of optimal town play (if you survive to use it). You don't need to use it today to secure the lynch.

Has anyone noticed how nervous McMenno is about being in a death match with me since my claim? He knows I'm telling the truth. How does he know that? He's scum. Although, I don't think McMeno has any reason to be worried because my ability shouldn't be playable if I am one of the ones in the death match. How can I sneak in unnoticed in my own match?

But I understand the worry because I had all sorts of questions when I received my role. If I understand my role correctly, it's not that lethal, even if I could use it. I have the ability to use my finishers on players in the death match. We've seen how trivial the finishers are under most circumstances.

Ms Columbo · Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:16 pm

@kmd and @almost - if you think I am scum, lynch me today. I never thought I would say this, but I'll even vote for myself. But please consider my position once I flipped.

I still think Mathblade is misguided town. I believe McMenno is the final scum.

@Almost - I could see it better for you going for Math today. The back and forth between you two makes it hard to focus on anything else. But if you still have your shot, I think you are the NK tonight. Playing it today is a waste. You would likely live to D6, however if McMenno is scum, Math and he will lynch you.

@Math - I know I could look, but would you answer my question here.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1518 (isolation #49) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:28 am

Here are the posts where malp & McMenno interact or mention one another:

On the first day of of the game:
malp #54:

Also I think McMenno using his abilities like that is too random and attention-drawing to be scum

This is the only D1 post where McMenno and malp mention one another. D2 is different matter...

On D2: this day is the primary focus between McMenno and malp. Warning: it's rather long.

Spoiler:

At the start of D2, malp changes his tune on McMenno. I can see this playing in favor of town-McMenno. But given the time that had passed (almost 3 weeks), I'm not sure it's telling. Malp and McMenno vote for one another. Malp mainly argues that McMenno should not be town read, he doesn't say much about McMenno actually being scum.

On D3:
McMenno #1003

VOTE: malpaswhat'shisface

malp #1047

McMenno is still useless.

McMenno #1111 Changes his vote to pep
malp #1186

My gut tells me the scumteam is in LUV/Kmd/and that other guy that is still breathing somehow. I'm not sure if my willingness to lynch Pep comes from suspicion of because he's so annoying.

(I believe 'the other guy' is a reference to McMenno)

The first two posts are early D3. After that McMenno and malp have almost no mention of each other. McMenno votes pep and malp throws shade on pep. Seems awfully convenient to have that back-and-forth on D2 and then basically forget about one another on D3. Then the death match occurs.

D4:
#1245 McMenno votes pep

McMenno and malp then have a couple of exchanges that could easily be two scum buddies hamming it up

Spoiler:

malp #1395

Hahaha it just came to me, the scumteam is mastina/McMenno.
Mastina keeps going in depth about the meaningless stuff, but states both scum and town reads with nothing to back them up. Also through this putting McMenno as a townread for fuckall reason (like has happened 20 times in this game already). Then votes me and calls me buddies with Math for buddying (even though contrary to a certain someone I did provide reasons for my read).
It's like he's trying to piss me off. And he's managing to because people are suddenly sheeping that slot for some reason. I guess they relate to the fact one more person is yet again TRing McMenno.
I'd really really like to know who thinks Math can still be scum. Or rather, who thinks Math is more likely to be scum than mastina.

malp implicates his partner as scum but votes for Mastina in the next post. Malp and McMenno mostly ignore each other on day 3. On D4, malp returns to throwing shade on McMenno but never actually votes him. For all the bluster, malp did not vote for McMenno after D2. In fact, they seem rather chummy on D4.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1519 (isolation #50) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:32 am

Malp town-read Math to death. That could be scum playing up his partner. But it could also be scum trying to gain town-cred if Math is lynched or paint suspicion on Math if malp is lynched.

In regards to Math, Malp made a statement that caught my eye:
#1081

cmon you're my towniest read and confirmed day-vig, if you're scum i'll quit mafia

That statement was about Math. Does scum make that bold of a claim about their partner? I guess they can, but scum usually leave some wiggle room, some sort of out, such as "if you and so-an-so are scum i'll quit mafia".

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1528 (isolation #51) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:01 pm

After hearing from Kmd and Almost, I feel better about the possibilities should the game go into another day. But I am still concerned town may lynch its way to a loss.

I am not voting for myself after Math's vote. I won't lynch myself with McMenno & Math on the wagon. Am I sure about scum-McMenno? No. I could be tunneling. Math could be scum. If Math is scum, game over. If Math flips town, I will obviously continue to push for McMenno's lynch.

VOTE: Vote MathBlade

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1548 (isolation #52) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Wow.

@Almost - For scum-McMenno, that is a gusty move. So I got to ask: are you scum? If so, good job. The decent thing is to end it now. If not, just say so and we'll move forward. I do not envy the paranoia you are probably feeling now.

VOTE: Vote McMenno

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1560 (isolation #53) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:48 am

@almost - Good game. Did scum on one brand know scum on the other? I gotta think no.

My ability could only be used in a death match (unless I misunderstood).

I meant what I said yesterday - if you were scum, you already won. Kudos to Math for having you pegged. Problem is, I don't see anyway in which a lynch would have swung around to you. Math may as well have been the teacher on Charlie Brown. That's what everything sounded like after a while.

@Math - sorry I did not listen, but I'm not sure I could have heard you. Is that partly my fault, yes. I stopped listening too early. I could not make heads-or-tails of your reasoning. The parts you had right got lost in the rest.

@McMenno - was there a way we could have worked together? I was wrong on you, town reading Almost left you as the only option.

Ms Columbo · Post Post #1563 (isolation #54) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:55 am

In post 1562, McMenno wrote:if almost is the scum then whatever. but let's wait for game end

Alright, I think Almost all but claimed, but good point.