Open 664 - Tit for Tat (Mafia Wins)

[Spade_Ace]

Sorry am late for the party.
VOTE: bang
Cos his name is a scumslip

[Spade_Ace]

Either he is 'Bang' who is the mafia or he wants to bang the mafia.

[Spade_Ace]

Sup nerds and Uzi.
Press A to Pound.
VOTE: Alisae

Attract and Roll Out were a bitch.

When you rollout your RVS votes you attract me.

Uzi you never responded to this.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Stop being silly babe

Mew.
Gonna go back on my own wagon now cuz I dunno what a Kuriboh is, yet I changed my avatar to it. I must be a dirty liar. All Liars Must be Lynched.
VOTE: Alisae

Why do you keep voting against yourself? What purpose does it serve?

[Spade_Ace]

Awww, I miss you too bang . No way am i letting you escape like the last time.

[Spade_Ace]

Cool checkout.Open 657:JK9++

In fact we also had Gamma, SAJ and Kop too.

[Spade_Ace]

Yooo Kop!!!...Nice to see you too.

[Spade_Ace]

Hey The MM, a correction. Kop is voting against me.

[Spade_Ace]

The MM, Kop unvoted me.

[Spade_Ace]

So I am liking Hawk for this post, however, I don't like Hawk for his read posts in 100.
I like the fact he got the game from RVS into :serious mode:.

@Mala post 100 is not Hawk's.

Also tbh, I didn't like Hawk saying that his vote on Alisae, someone he considers is a soft town lean, was a way of getting us out of RVS. Usually we just transition out of RVS phase, we don't require someone to officially announce it.

And why is everyone unvoting their RVS vote. Keep it till you get a scumread on someone else.

[Spade_Ace]

Kop that's fair.
But sofar I like how he's pressuring Mala. Seems genuine and a town thing to do.
VOTE: Mala

This post stinks of a full 180 turn towards Hawk.

dumb questions are scummy

It's not dumb, it's a valid question. We need to find out the correct stance she is taking, because at the moment, we don't know what position she is taking on the whole situation, one minute she is in this camp, then the next post, she's in a different camp.

I don't have any issues with her vote changes so early in the game. I would be more concerned if she is just sticking to her initial vote and not ready to change as she gets more information. Isn't it too early to talk about 'different camps'.
Her post 201 seems town to me. Scum would not want to look so wavering.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

[Spade_Ace]

Alisae, just started posting again on MS. Was busy with the holidays. Let me read the thread.

[Spade_Ace]

Listen, Transcend is in a class with some players like Kain Tepes that we called the "WTF zone". They break the mold and are uncontrollable. IV is not one of these.

lol

i promise, i am no transcend

i think i my most recent game he deathtunneled me with zero reasoning and lost us the game -_-

The last game i played with him he soft claimed the lead mafia role, self hammered when he was at L-1, and flipped some type of town PR like watcher or tracker. I wont play another game with him personally.

Transcend's a cool dog. Give him another chance.

What is the relevance of a discussion on a player who is not involved in this game???

[Spade_Ace]

@Lil The question was more directed at Crystalline Dagger. I did an ISo on him and apart from post 222 most of his posts have been irrelevant. They are either hydra clarifying themselves, about Pokemon, about Transcend or about the 'water washy' thing. I know it is an RVS, Crystalline, but do some kind of scumhunting else it looks as if you are just trying to look involved.

Also his one original post 222, he says 218 of IV made him thing IV was a scum. I actually felt 218 made IV lean more towards town. It seems as if he is trying subtly join the IV wagon.

VOTE: Crystalline Dagger

[Spade_Ace]

Do an ISO of his posts.

[Spade_Ace]

Do you see any irrelevant posts in my ISO?

[Spade_Ace]

If you check my activity you will see that I just came back on MS. Alisae's vote is just bad timing.

[Spade_Ace]

From the time i last posted to.now. there hasnt been much quality. If you find it inorganic, i dont know what to say. But i get what you are saying about the forced thing. You feel as if am trying to force a catchup that could possibly help me in making Alisae remove her vote.
Well i was just posting things just as i thought them.

[Spade_Ace]

Dammit I am in L-1. Someone remove their vote before somebody accidentally hammers me.

[Spade_Ace]

Ohh shit. Am totally messed up. Am confusing games. Sorry.

[Spade_Ace]

Hey am back. There seems to be many questions. Let me ans them one by one.

[Spade_Ace]

Also, Aubrey. Am somewhat getting the feel that you are defending me. Why??

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

First, Alisae and Aelin. You both asked me my reasons for initially voting against IV. Please have a look at the posts IV posted prior to me voting against him. If they are not ambiguous, I don't know what is. He came in at Post 135 and this was all he could muster as a catchup till 185. I thought he was purposefully being non-committal.

chill fam it's been like less than a day

Also hi all

Malta is scum

Mala is scum
Hawk is town
Alis is town

Don't ask me to justify these yet these are just gut, I'll let you guys know when to take my opinions seriously if I can find reasoning

Wow dudes I don't know this game idk what to think

Getting mixed vibes all around

Wow dudes I don't know this game idk what to think

Getting mixed vibes all around

What happened here? You went from what seemed like somewhat sturdy guy reads to being vexed all around.

take a wild guess

VOTE: aubrey

dumb questions are scummy

[Spade_Ace]

For questions asked by IV, Kop and Aubrey. Post 218 was IV's first quality post and the reason I town read him for that is:

hmm mostly gut

your next post 124 or something seemed like a lot of IC-garbage that I would post as an IC which felt unnecessary here since this isn't a newbie, but maybe you're just doing this out of habit and some of these players feel inexperienced in a way
feels like you're trying too hard to "note things that stick out to you but you're not sure why yet", but i don't really see you ever returning to those things that stuck out to you (correct me if im wrong and you did). i like to do this shit as scum bc it makes me seem more organic, but of course they're not so i forget about them and never bring them up again

I could relate to this, cos in my only Newbie game, the IC who later turned out to be scum, did the exact same thing. And she was easily scum read for that. You can check it.

also rereading hawk from early pages makes me weary of that slot. like wtf was that reaction test on alisae? "im voting you Alisae" next post "this is a reaction test alisae, how do you react" like wat. Not scummy but just weirdly not thought out. idk hawk gives me mixed vibes bc he's does scummy unhelpful shit like this but is also towntelling weirdly to some degree

i still think i like alisae for town

Your reads on Hawk and Alisae seemed similar to mine.

In Post 150 I mentioned the fact that I didn't like what Hawk was doing but I also didn't vote for him cos I didn't feel it was a scumtell.
In Post 211,I mention why I have no issues with Alisae's vote change and that I would have found it to be scummy otherwise.

So is it not natural to town read a person with whom you agree?? So, yes this changed my view on IV.

[Spade_Ace]

Apart from that, I townread him for questioning me too. I could understand why IV thought my catchup looked forced. Alisae had just voted against me and my reply could have seemed as a scum trying to throw shade on others.

My issue with Dagger was that I used to all kinds of such irrelevant stuff as a scum during my Whatsapp Mafia days and rarely used to get called out on that. He has posted 26 messages and I felt only 222 was the only one with content. So yes, too many irrelevant and ambiguous posts is something that is scummy to me. This was his post 222.

This whole game i have been focused on discerning the scum from the town and trying to improve my player reading skill. Its been kind of hard for me but then i got to post 218 and thought, that is it, there has to be scum between IV and Mala because they wouldnt exchange like that if both were scum and it doesn't make sense if both are town because i then got to post 220 and it made it clear that IV isnt town in my eyes. The way IV shrugs off the suggestion that they make it clear which posts they are responding to looked scummy to me. How can someone just not care about whether or not their posts are clear and understood? How can a town aligned player not care if he makes the town as a whole more confused and in a roundabout way essentially leave the town with less information? For now my vote rests on IV.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: InnocentVillager

I will go through their ISO now that i have a concise read and know how i feel about them.

~Jin~

I didn't think either 218 or 220 warranted a vote change by Dagger and combined with the irrelevant stuff he has been posting, I thought of voting against him.

PEDIT: Will have a look at your reply Aelin

[Spade_Ace]

Both Spade and IV ping me a bit, but Spade more so.
He constantly is calling the case on him null and void and blames his scumminess on inactivity, which is not the case at all.
Is Spade's vote still just on CD from RVS?
I also want to read through Mala's iso because at first I was getting scum vibes

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

Very quick to jump on there weren't you?

Hey iv

I'm scum why??

Twist this around
@malakittens. You're town why?

the reason you change your vote to be on someone should be because you actually noticed something significant that points in the direction of them being scum

You've been called out for not providing content lately, started getting some suspicion on you. All you've really done this game is clarify, engage in irrelevant discussion, talk about merits of RVS and stuff, and at one point you literally voted me for like "ambiguous posts". Is that a legitimate reason to vote someone?

Here, you're calling out Crystalline for 1) irrelevant posting, which a. you yourself do and b. is completely null 2) you townread me for a post they scumread me for.

I cannot buy that as a logical, real genuine thought out town process for switching a vote. Your scumtells and follow-up votes have so far all been based on "ambiguity and irrelevance", which are in no way significant scumtells and I doubt town!you would've actually had these thoughts organically arise.

Spade then proceeds to completely ignore this case and shade Alisae

Aelin, I am not liking any of your posts to be honest. Your read on me seemed quite opportunistic. Few questions.

1) When did I throw shade on Alisae???
2) Are you suspecting Mala too?
3) Why have you not changed your vote from RVS. If you are suspecting me why have you not voted.

[Spade_Ace]

Anyone else you scumread?
Do you scumread me?

Just saw this message. Why are you asking me whether I scumread you or not? That makes no sense.

[Spade_Ace]

Guys, sorry, wasnt paying much attention to this game. Was more focused on a thriller that just got over. My previous town game in Open, i attracted way too much attention on day1 and ended up being scumread. My wagon reached L-1 and had to claim. I got killed that night. So i decided it was wiser to be less active this time. It seems whatever i do, am being scumread. Bang, kop, Saj and gamma, whoever isnt scum, please back me up. You have seen my play before.

I have poor reads on everyone, so far. Ill need to go back and read the game again.

[Spade_Ace]

I think i'll give my reads on everyone in an alphabetical order.

Aelin- Scum lean
- Hasn't changed her RVS vote. Says she suspects IV, Me and Mala but refuses to commit to anyone.
- I felt her initial scum lean on me was kind of convenient. Backs of when questioned.
- In Post 352 she says she understands my reasons for suspecting dagger. But in Post 488 says she still scum leans me.
- Didn't like the way she cleared Mala as town based on a weird reaction test. Post 366
- Didn't give reasons for townreading Uzi. Post 364
- Having said that, her style of play is somewhat consistent. Last game too she gave reads but didn't explain the reasons.
@Aelin who do you prefer seeing lynched today?

Alisae - NULL
- Is the most active player.
- Seems to be giving off reads and changing her vote often without being concerned about how they are perceived. Scum would fear appearing inconsistent.
- Post 201 gives a town vibe.
- But I didn't like Post 437 at all. Seems BS to me. Needs to explain it further.
- Post 465. Scum would NEVER hammer on day 1 in a 12 person game.
- Understood the Post 457 reference. So can understand why she wanted a wagon on me. But do note I react to wagons badly, irrespective of my alignment.
@alisae Respond to Post 453 and Post 472. Also do you scumread or townread daggers?

Aubrey - Town Lean
- Second most active player. Seems to be doing his fair share of scumhunting. Provides reasons and explains his thoughts. Is calling out people on their inconsistencies
- But at times he appears to be buddying up to people. Took too much effort in explaining the transcend issue to me. And explaining the 'spoliers' to bang. Might be trying to act like an IC.
- But other than that, am not able to find anything that stands out scummy
@Aubrey other than Alisae who are your scumreads?

[Spade_Ace]

Okay. Thought of doing reads alphabetically. But whatever. Hold on.

[Spade_Ace]

S**t!! just noticed something rather unsettling. Not sure whether I should point it out or not.

[Spade_Ace]

I haven't yet decided how I lean on the three you mentioned so far. I liked the Hawk getting us out of RVS, but I don't like his early reads.
Yes KT and IV will both be pia reads for me.

Maybe they will be vigged for my sanity.

Aubrey and Spade: Self-vote in RVS from Alisae to me is an engage me vote not nesscarily null. IME it's often town looking to start ppl talking, accidentally start a wagon, or in general just be different and standout during RVS. So I engaged wanting to see what he had to say.

She seems to have bread crumbed (stuff I have marked in green). It can either be:
1) An innocent random town post: If so why did she go to the extra efforts of making the size small.
2) It is a Vig soft claim. If it is, then it is a DUMB DUMB Obvious one. Cos i noticed ryt away while doing the ISO.
3) It is a scum, who wants to later claim she was a Vig. And show proof that she had already breadcrumbed.
4) She is directing the vig to kill someone.

@Mala please explain. If you are indeed Vig then Scum would have definitely noticed it and is purposefully quite about it.

[Spade_Ace]

Yeah. I did have a doubt whether to mention or not. But this was sticking right at you and am sure any one who does an iso will notice. If she indeed is, then is it not better to know now than after she flips dead tmrw.

[Spade_Ace]

Mala - Scum Lean (keeping aside Post 522)

On first glance, she gives off a no nonsense townish vibe. Strong opinions, curt replies, mentions what she likes, dislikes. But her statements resemble a lot like the Scum!IC in my newbie game who gave such similar responses.

-Her Post 370, is word by word, the excuse used by the IC to not explain her reads and survive day1.
-Her questioning Alisae on whether English was her first language or not. Felt that was an unwarranted attack aimed at discrediting someone. This was in response to Alisae's vote on her.
-Her vote on Alisae, Post 489, and her not providing a reason when asked to.
-She makes it certain to everyone that she is the most experienced among the lot. Post 368. Granted it was in response to the reaction test, but still seems as if she is saying "I know what I am doing and don't question"
-Statements like: "So I am liking Hawk for this post, however, I don't like Hawk for his read posts in 100."

maybe I am bit biased because of a similar experience but this is my read

[Spade_Ace]

10 pages since I last posted. How? I just posted yesterday evening

@Spade, yoy have still not completed your reads list. And your whole "wait, OMG, i just noticed Mala's breadcrumb" made me completely cringe when I read it.

Just few weeks back, in Open 657, I thought we discussed this with MDS that breadcrumbs are breadcrumbs bcoz the original player doesnt want to openly announce that. So it must be revealed by only the Original player. You never say hey see what that guy is trying to hide!

With this background, what were you thinking when you exposed that breadcrumb. Especially since it was a Vig claim according to you, how did a town!you think you are helping town? We dont have a doc in this setup so there was no way Vig could be protected. JKing vig would protect him but lose his ability to shoot down scum, right? So please explain why you exposed a breadcrumb.

Really bang, really?? Maybe if you weren't busy playing scum last game you would have seen what was discussed. Check Game Link 1. Check the next post too. Gamma clearly mentions, any bold texts /

writing patterns

that is obvious needs to be shared. This was super obvious to me. When the vig is exposed to town (that is town also knows who vig is and not just scum), it entails a bit of WIFOM (the JK may protect may not protect). Which is better than a certain scum kill according to me.

Ohh crap. It looks like Gamma has modified his original wikki article, Wikki, to include the term, "if the person is close to being lynched". Thanks for making me look stupid, Gamma.

[Spade_Ace]

You let up off of

Spade to Vote Mala after spades read which is super oppurtunistically of Spade anyway since he was going alphabetically he just skips me and Kop and goes for his Mala read?

Answer for that

SPADE,, respond on MALAKITTENS

SPADE,, respond on MALAKITTENS

This spade.

Another thing is spade still got a pass for not answering about his read on me. This post feels like a distraction.

528 Mala's reasoning actually to me makes pretty good sense. Spade seems to be role fishing a bit here, and despite what he was saying this entire post feels like a distraction as to what was originally asked of him.

@Hawk I wonder why I magically decided to give a mala read out of nowhere

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

Is it just me, or does this post seem very opportunistic.

@Alisae Check Post 335 Have already responded to that. If you have an issue with the response then mention that. Stop posting the same thing again.

[Spade_Ace]

@Hawk confirmation bias much?? Did you check out the very first sentence on my Mala read?

Mala - Scum Lean (keeping aside Post 522)

I didn't know what to make of the breadcrumb issue, didn't clearly understand Mala's response to it and everyone seemed to think it was a bad idea. So I 'kept that aside' from my read. I gave a scumlean way before Kain claimed Vig. How is this being opportunistic? Also unlike everyone else I dont believe exposing breadcrumbs is anti-town.

Also explain to me how I am distancing myself from Aelin? She is clearly dragging me down with her. I have been calling her out on her convenient scumread from the start.

Hawk I am starting to really not like you. You simply used Alisae's argument,Post 555 against me. Your breadcrumb issue was already explained in detail by Kop and bang. Do you not have any original thoughts or arguments??

Also, what is the deal with everyone about my reads.
Scum - Aelin, Mala
Scum leaning - Alisae, hawk
NULL -IV, CD, bang, Lil
Town - Aubrey, Kop, Kain
Expected CD to be defensive against my accusations. He simply didn't care. Quite indifferent throughout the game.
VOTE: Aelin

[Spade_Ace]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Breadcrumb

"scum have been known to breadcrumb roles as well; if the role they breadcrumbed became inconvenient to claim, they simply do not point them out later. Last, an obvious breadcrumb will draw the scum's attention and place that player at the top of the list of players they have an interest in killing overNight."

hope that answers your question

[Spade_Ace]

Enough with this. Do i need to spell it out for you.

1) I DIDNT scumlean mala based on the breadcrumb. It was due to her nature of play which greatly resembled the scum!IC in my newbie game. Mala's response had NOTHING to do with my scumlean. I specifically kept aside the breadcrumb issue while making a read.
2) Spot a breadcrumb, immediately announce it. This was kinda imbibed in my mind based on my previous open game, check Game Link 1.
3) If you are phone posting, it was super obvious. I initially thought, Vig!Mala had made a super dumb breadcrumb and it was imp for JK to know that. Or else she was directing the vig or she was scum laying out a defense plan. Either way, at that moment, I thought it was imp town knew about that.
4) In hindsight, yes, it was better I left it out.

Now just let it go.

[Spade_Ace]

Yes, I have no issues with lynching Alisae. She is scumleaning for me. And i hate how she has been tunneling me throughout the game even after I provided my reasons. It's just that I find Aelin and Mala scummier.

[Spade_Ace]

[Spade_Ace]

I

noticed

. But i didn't understand.

[Spade_Ace]

Spades finish your reads list

This. Is. Still. Fucking. Relevant

Read Post 844

Why are you not voting for anyone?

Aelin townreads Mala based on something random.
Mala votes for Alisae but doesn't explain why.
Mala has no comments on Aelin.

I smell something fishy.

[Spade_Ace]

will check in at some pt

So I don't have time to read through carefully everything that's happened in the last 10 ish pages holy shit. But, if there are specific things you guys want me to look at that are particularly relevant, I'd be happy to answer.

Ask away bitches

holy shit

i will get to this

yeah same kinda? yall post so much hard to keep up fuck me

im honestly so bad at reading through a lot of pages and actually getting useful info can someone plz give me the sparknotes and ask me to address certain things

If you can't catchup. Then replace out.

[Spade_Ace]

your wagon is shit alisae i don't need to read through 25 pages of bullshit to realize that

This made me laugh and smile a lot. Quite frankly it seems as if I am the only person that understands that.

not scum rxn.

I agree.

[Spade_Ace]

Hawk, check the VC again

[Spade_Ace]

Very awful gambit indeed!!!

[Spade_Ace]

alisae is frustrating because even when he is town the way he plays is always to preserve himself and never to town win condition,,

I think her intentions were nobler than you give credit. As a VT she would have known that by claiming JK, she would be an instant kill target for the scum. She could have been hoping that scum would waste their shot on her. Might not have anticipated JK not protecting KT. But still, a bad move.

[Spade_Ace]

Am all in favour for a Mala lynch. But i don't want to end the day so quickly without any worthwhile discussion.

[Spade_Ace]

Happy birthday MM!!

[Spade_Ace]

@KT are you not satisfied with Kop's answer?

I wish Mala, IV and bang would contribute more.

[Spade_Ace]

So sorry for not posting. Got completely caught up IRL. My thoughts so far. Some have already been mentioned.

1) Why was LUV chosen? Scum must have reaslised that if JK chooses not to protect KT, then JK would most likely protect one of their top town reads and KT would kill one of his top scumreads. So I guess it makes sense to choose someone was neither too townish nor too scummy. He also wasn't a lurker and was contributing regularly.

2) Associations.

It doesn't make much sense for both scum to bus Aelin on Day 1 (possible but not that probable). So there is a pretty good chance for one of Mala, Kop and IV to flip red.

Mala - I have already mentioned my case against her in Day1. In Day2 she accuses IV post 1070 of doing exactly what she did to Bang post 996. It is clear that she is reading the thread and has time to post repeatedly on why 'she can't post'. I understand being caught up IRL but I don't think its asking too much to have at least 'one proper reads' post per mafia day or to explain the reasons for voting someone. But it is also rather worrisome that she is not even bothering to defend herself when she is a viable lynch suspect.

IV - I was okay with his contributions in the first half of day1. But then he disappeared and When he came back all he said was, 'there are too many posts for me to read'. In Day2, he is quick to defend himself when someone accuses him. But he has still not provided any worthwhile content other than a half-hearted attempt at accusing Bang.

IV didn't vote but he also didn't Hammer when Alisae was at L-1 So I don't think he's scum...

IV is otherwise quite scummy to me. What saves him in my eyes is the only fact that he did not hammer Alissae when he cud easily have

Hawk and Bang mention in their initial posts that IV is not scummy because he didn't hammer. That is exactly what scum would do. After all, the game doen't end on Day 1. If they hammer, they know they would look scummy.
@IV Yes inactivity =/= being a scum. But it is anti-town.

Kop - I have nothing against him actually. Except for his post 1079. He says he finds it suspicious how quickly the wagon on Mala formed. But then proceeds to vote against me, someone who was not on the wagon

Am ruling out (Mala, Kop) scumteam for now. I don't think all 3 scum would vote to lynch Alisae. Mala and Kop are both experienced players and they wouldn't want the heat to be on both of them on just day 2. It is either Mala or Kop.

(Mala, IV) scumteam also seems less likely. As they have both been relatively inactive in the second half of Day1 and in Day2. Scum would want to control the narrative at least to some extent and appear as if they are contributing. So it is either Mala or IV.

It is highly probable that one scum would have bussed Aelin to get some town cred. Scum lean on Aelin wagon is CD/Bang. CD for obvious reasons. Bang, as scum, is a player who can pretend to be town very well. But I don't want to lynch either of them today.

Am okay with either Mala or IV lynch. But I think Mala is the best lynch option today. If she flips red we can eliminate Kop and IV from suspect list.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Spade_Ace]

Just about 3 days remaining. Mala or Iv appears to be the lynch. You both should speak out now.

[Spade_Ace]

@mod please prod CD

@hawk it's been two days since IV last visited MS. I don't think he knows that he is in L-1.

[Spade_Ace]

IRL issues are going to kick in shortly. I apologize right now for any future lackings.

@hawk there might be a slight delay. Mod has IRL issues.

[Spade_Ace]

KT has to shoot if we misLynch today. Because it's the only way we get to F3 if that happens. If we Lynch Mafia He should shoot as well since it's 4v1 going into final 4. A good shot ends the game a bad shot sends us to final 3.

^^^This.
Irrespective of what happens today, KT should definitely use his vig shot tonight.
If we manage to lynch scum today, night starts with 4v1. Suppose KT doesn't use his kill. D4 begins with 3v1. If we mislynch, then the game is lost. 2v1 is def better than 3v1 for D4.

[Spade_Ace]

Town apathy in general has hurt us. Esp the VTs who were lurking.

[Spade_Ace]

Leaning towards Kop or CD lynch, preferably Kop. Cos it makes sense for one scum to be outside Aelins wagon.

@Hawk backup role cop is right now a VT for all practical purposes.
Tit for Tat :Town Backup Role Cop -

Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons both investigate as "Vanilla"

.

[Spade_Ace]

Am the BRC. The role became useless the moment the Backup JK got killed. BJK was the only role I could have got a positive scum read.

[Spade_Ace]

Of course. What else could you do.
VOTE: Kop

Aubrey he is faking it. Scum have no choice but to counter claim. If the scum pair is (kop,CD), then they knew they would lose tonight itself if one was lynched and the other shot. Lynch him.

[Spade_Ace]

Kop CCing as scum doesn't make sense unless he's sure that KT won't shoot him or that scum can win in final 3.

@Hawk it makes complete sense. It doesn't matter who KT shoots whether him or his scum partner. Scum get to play the next day. Else Kop gets lynched today and, if his partner gets killed at night, scum game is over.

He is basically trying to not have any confirmed roles on day 4. Is it not obvious to you people yet???

I feel as if I am being setup for lynch on day3. It really doesn't matter at this point whether am lynched or not.

@Kop I see that you have nicely distanced yourself from CD.

[Spade_Ace]

Also do you really believe as scum I would lead the wagon on my scum partner Aelin?? That I would night kill Lil, one of the very few ppl who were town reading me on day1 and again night kill bang, someone who thought i was a town towards the end of day 2???

Use your senses ppl!!! Am being set up.

[Spade_Ace]

So what you people are saying is that I and my scum partner both bussed Aelin????? Why?

[Spade_Ace]

Not scum reading him anymore after the bread crumb thing.

A blatant lie. Should have read his ISO properly. Go read the thread.

Also now you are conveniently change stances.

[Spade_Ace]

@hawk when

did I say it couldn't

be Kop/Aubrey? For that matter it could be you and kop too. All I know is that am being setup for a lynch.

I would have been totally pissed had this been lylo.

Just get it over with. Lynch me, shoot kop.

[Spade_Ace]

Honestly no I don't. But your reason for voting me sucks. You say that it can't be kop/ CD, so it should be spade/cd. If I KNEW CD was my partner would I be asking town to shoot him after kop is killed? You could say wifom and that stuff. But this is endgame. I wouldn't take such risk.

But there is no convincing you. I just hope kt is able to see better sense. It doesn't matter either way. Whether we win tonight or tomorrow. We are just not gonna have a conf role.

@aubrey you better speak up now. Who do you think is scum?? You have been speaking just the 'enough' amount the whole game. Neither too much or too less.

PEDIT: if I had a penny for the number of times you were sure in this game and then proved wrong.

[Spade_Ace]

Yeah that makes sense.

But I can't help but feel this is a setup. You asked for the BRC to claim (yes the logic made sense at that time), I claimed, kop counter claimed and then you voted against me. How come you didn't vote against Kop.? I know you said it doesn't matter either way for you but why didn't you wait?

Also the fact that both I and Kop wanting CD shot at night makes me wary of CD actually being scum.

I don't think it's coincidental that Mafia shot Bang

@hawk I know the most logical conclusion is for mafia to have killed bang and not KT. But how were you so sure mafia shot bang. Yours was the very first post. Also you have been flip flopping a lot in this game. The thing that had made you sure town in my eyes was your Aelin lynch. But could you not have done that to appear towny?

I think am starting to become a bit paranoid doubting my townreads and all. But the last time I was town I lynched the wrong person at Lylo. Scum was the one person who I thought couldn't have been more town.

[Spade_Ace]

@mod request a prod on KT

[Spade_Ace]

Came back to the game at the wrong time i guess. kop, nice play. I couldn't convince town that i was town. @KT yes shoot Kop.

[Spade_Ace]

Am I late for the party?

Aubrey, Aelin!!! Cheers!!! We managed to pull off a win from a seemingly impossible position.

This was a tough win for scum esp cos 2/3 of us were scumread on Day1. Aelin distancing herself from me and her flip helped me survive a little longer. I still didn't expect to be alive on Day 3. This game would have been a lot different had Mala, IV and CD been active a little more. Town wouldn't have been forced to guess whether their inactivity was scum motivated or not.

Hawk you played a wonderful town game and took on the role of town leader even though this was just your second game. But, I was actually quite surprised when you stopped suspecting me on day2. Do appreciate your effort and enthusiasm in scumhunting. I think you were able to find most, albeit the few, chinks in Aubrey's Armour.

Kop, I think this was the most difficult Lylo situation I had ever seen in my few games in MS. Both the players were equally townread, had very few associative to the flipped scum and were each able to give satisfactory answers to your questions. So I hope you don't feel too terrible.

Aubrey you love to live dangerously, don't you? I thought you would hammer Kop and we would win the next day easily with CD in Lylo. You chose the hard way, but it was fun for us spectators to watch you battle with Hawk. I loled when I read this on scumchat - "

Bring on the Hawk. This snake is ready to fight in his .5% world.

" Your scum play is worth emulating. It was quite nonchalant throughout the game and the answers were measured. On the other hand I was scummy AF. Had lots of fun planning and analyzing with you.

The MM, thanks for an entertaining game. Would love to play with you all again.

[Spade_Ace]

Hawk, thanks a lot for playing Lylo even though you were going through a difficult time. Wish you and your brother all the happiness in life.