Open 667: Day 3

[Börk Börk]

/confirm

[Börk Börk]

Seeing four pages here already, I got my hopes up that there would be some proper discussion to pick apart and use to scumhunt. But alas, it's a whole lot of fluff and alt fishing.

VOTE: pepchoninga for contributing almost nothing useful despite having the highest postcount. Because that's not useful at all, and yet artificially inflating one's postcount can prove to be useful as a false argument against one's lynch at a later stage.

[Börk Börk]

And FoS Keyen for basically the same reasons. And also starting the whole alt fishing thing.

[Börk Börk]

@Bork, Can you quote things that looked 'useful' to you?

Give me a good reason to do so.

[Börk Börk]

@Bork, Can you quote things that looked 'useful' to you?

Give me a good reason to do so.

Your posts are unbelievable and fake.

Says the person who has contributed fuck-all to the discussion.

Asking someone to quote someone else's useful posts is both the laziest and least useful thing anyone has done so far.

Why?
We have four pages. If you're looking for content to make reads off then go find it yourself. I've explained my read, and I feel that there is no need to back it up with evidence, especially when the request is phrased in sich a way that puts the accused individual in a more positive light. This just makes me think that you two are scumbuddies.
And why isn't it useful? Because you can do your own scumhunting without piggybacking me.

[Börk Börk]

Feeling better about a Snarky lynch.

After two posts of his, one of which was confirming his spot?

[Börk Börk]

@Bork, are you to new to mafia?

Yes, I've played one game on this site and that's it.

Which doesn't make any of what I say any less valid.

[Börk Börk]

Seeing four pages here already, I got my hopes up that there would be some proper discussion to pick apart and use to scumhunt. But alas, it's a whole lot of fluff and alt fishing.

VOTE: pepchoninga for contributing almost nothing useful despite having the highest postcount. Because that's not useful at all, and yet artificially inflating one's postcount can prove to be useful as a false argument against one's lynch at a later stage.

Ok, I will take this as a "Bye RVS vote"

Your post is absolutely bad for these reasons: In those 4 pages, we have started a conversation. This conversation is full of fluff. And it was untill we got somethings real to discuss about. Creature seemed to want to give a good thing for us to prodice content but he basically ended the topic himself. There is nothing for us to do except keep posting until we have something real to talk about. And your vote is exactly that. Using the not producing content as an argument for a lynch in the first 4 pages is bad.

Instead of posting fluff and relying on someone else to produce content, you could have tried to do so yourself. That's why I voted you, and it's completely backed up by evidence.

It is beneficial to mafia to produce posts which lack content and distract town from keeping the game moving, as in the end town will have less time to dedicate to scumhunting. Therefore my case on you is also directly related to scummy behaviour, and not just policy.

[Börk Börk]

@Bork, are you to new to mafia?

Yes, I've played one game on this site and that's it.

Which doesn't make any of what I say any less valid.

It doesn't make it any less valid but it also doesn't make it any more believable. It's rushed and you really have no solid thing to go off from in that vote.

Oh, and where are your solid arguments and valid points? Oh wait. Nowhere. At least I'm making an effort, wen beyond simply defending myself.

[Börk Börk]

@Bork, Can you quote things that looked 'useful' to you?

Give me a good reason to do so.

Your posts are unbelievable and fake.

Says the person who has contributed fuck-all to the discussion.

Asking someone to quote someone else's useful posts is both the laziest and least useful thing anyone has done so far.

Why?
We have four pages. If you're looking for content to make reads off then go find it yourself. I've explained my read, and I feel that there is no need to back it up with evidence, especially when the request is phrased in sich a way that puts the accused individual in a more positive light. This just makes me think that you two are scumbuddies.
And why isn't it useful? Because you can do your own scumhunting without piggybacking me.

Says the one who's throwing scum reads based on shit posts. You clearly and obviously refused to do it because 'your basing your reads on non-game related talks (shit posts)' and that's what makes it so fake and unbelievable.
You also refused to quote some 'helpful' posts because there's 4 pages and can't seem to see a helpful post to solidify your reads against me and you also try to make me appear scum by being a fucking lazy scumass person.

VOTE: Bork

Why do you think bringing the alt talk make me scum?

The alt talk is scummy because it make you look like you're moving the discussion forward, while not actually doing so, as alt fishing has no direct correlation to scumhunting. It's especially bad early on in the game, when we NEED some solid discussion. So it's scummy behaviour.

And the fact that your main defense here seems to be ad hominem attacks against me (i.e. 'fucking lazy scumass person') rather than my content just serves to solidify my point that you're not producing good content right now.

Also, for someone who claims to be 13, you sure use a lot of profanity. Just saying. Calm down a bit.

[Börk Börk]

Seeing four pages here already, I got my hopes up that there would be some proper discussion to pick apart and use to scumhunt. But alas, it's a whole lot of fluff and alt fishing.

VOTE: pepchoninga for contributing almost nothing useful despite having the highest postcount. Because that's not useful at all, and yet artificially inflating one's postcount can prove to be useful as a false argument against one's lynch at a later stage.

Ok, I will take this as a "Bye RVS vote"

Your post is absolutely bad for these reasons: In those 4 pages, we have started a conversation. This conversation is full of fluff. And it was untill we got somethings real to discuss about. Creature seemed to want to give a good thing for us to prodice content but he basically ended the topic himself. There is nothing for us to do except keep posting until we have something real to talk about. And your vote is exactly that. Using the not producing content as an argument for a lynch in the first 4 pages is bad.

Instead of posting fluff and relying on someone else to produce content, you could have tried to do so yourself. That's why I voted you, and it's completely backed up by evidence.

It is beneficial to mafia to produce posts which lack content and distract town from keeping the game moving, as in the end town will have less time to dedicate to scumhunting. Therefore my case on you is also directly related to scummy behaviour, and not just policy.

While your thinking is good, you need to understand that fluff doesn't mean scum. No, scum don't always try to make fluffy posts to distract town. They try to act like a town would, this includes scumhunt and all the other stuff, but they also manipulate town into an opinion. You cannot say someone is scum of the saying that they don't produce content in RVS. Content in RVS is hardly produced. The first players to say something strange or out of the ordinary is what creates the content, hence gets the game started. No, you don't have evidence. Evidence is you quoting a post and explaining what you feel is scummy about it.

You make a fair point. However here I'm choosing to differentiate between 'being scum' and 'being scummy'. I'll say that you are correct about your fluff posting not necessarily meaning that you are scum. But regardless of whether you are scum or not, the outcome of delaying the transition out of RVS ultimately favours scum. Hence it is a scummy action.

[Börk Börk]

Seeing four pages here already, I got my hopes up that there would be some proper discussion to pick apart and use to scumhunt. But alas, it's a whole lot of fluff and alt fishing.

VOTE: pepchoninga for contributing almost nothing useful despite having the highest postcount. Because that's not useful at all, and yet artificially inflating one's postcount can prove to be useful as a false argument against one's lynch at a later stage.

Ok, I will take this as a "Bye RVS vote"

Your post is absolutely bad for these reasons: In those 4 pages, we have started a conversation. This conversation is full of fluff. And it was untill we got somethings real to discuss about. Creature seemed to want to give a good thing for us to prodice content but he basically ended the topic himself. There is nothing for us to do except keep posting until we have something real to talk about. And your vote is exactly that. Using the not producing content as an argument for a lynch in the first 4 pages is bad.

Instead of posting fluff and relying on someone else to produce content, you could have tried to do so yourself. That's why I voted you, and it's completely backed up by evidence.

It is beneficial to mafia to produce posts which lack content and distract town from keeping the game moving, as in the end town will have less time to dedicate to scumhunting. Therefore my case on you is also directly related to scummy behaviour, and not just policy.

While your thinking is good, you need to understand that fluff doesn't mean scum. No, scum don't always try to make fluffy posts to distract town. They try to act like a town would, this includes scumhunt and all the other stuff, but they also manipulate town into an opinion. You cannot say someone is scum of the saying that they don't produce content in RVS. Content in RVS is hardly produced. The first players to say something strange or out of the ordinary is what creates the content, hence gets the game started. No, you don't have evidence. Evidence is you quoting a post and explaining what you feel is scummy about it.

You make a fair point. However here I'm choosing to differentiate between 'being scum' and 'being scummy'. I'll say that you are correct about your fluff posting not necessarily meaning that you are scum. But regardless of whether you are scum or not, the outcome of delaying the transition out of RVS ultimately favours scum. Hence it is a scummy action.

Scum do admittedly enjoy staying in RVS, but also me not screaming for an escape of RVS isn't scummy. I also did try to get a discussion out of the bold Creature comment, but he ultimately shut this topic 'till a later time.

You seem to agree with what I'm saying, yet your vote is still on me because you think that I delayed us getting out of RVS?

Ah, sorry, I forgot to include that in my post. UNVOTE:

[Börk Börk]

who should i be voting, bork? i think you should vote indigo with me.

If you find Indigo to be the scummiest person at present then vote for Indigo. You made a valid point about him earlier, which is definitely making me consider following your vote. However I think I'll revote someone tomorrow morning, after I've given it some thought. Since I don't think it would be beneficial for me to make an impromptu vote right now.

[Börk Börk]

I still want to lynch Keyen for being an irritating kid, but that's independent of any scumreads. Another fishy aspect of what he's doing is being wishy-washy with his vote on me. Makes a case that he evidently believes in and then shortly afterwards, when it's clear that nobody has followed his vote, he takes it away, instantly changes his opinion, and is keen to move along so that he can avoid all scrutiny for his voting.
Having thought about it, I don't really know whether I want to hop onto the Indigo wagon so soon. Considering how many posts he's made, I don't think it's even possible to have a solid case. While this doesn't invalidate Vijarada's point, I am a bit confused as to why he's pushing his case this much. However overall it's a town-like action, as it attracts people's attention and therefore scrutiny.

[Börk Börk]

Y'know what? I convinced myself. VOTE: keyen

[Börk Börk]

I thought town were supposed to lynch mafia members, not irritating kids.

10/10 for selectively reading the parts of my post which you can use against me. Maybe you didn't notice, but I made yet another point against him right after I acknowledged that he was an irritating kid.

[Börk Börk]

The fact that Keyen is discrediting my case by calling me a newbie, and the fact that this is his

sole

defence, is just proof that he's caught scum who has no idea what to do.

Please lynch him. Even if he somehow turns out to be a bad town player instead, at least we'll have a significantly more enjoyable game.

[Börk Börk]

Please lynch him. Even if he somehow turns out to be a bad town player instead, at least we'll have a significantly more enjoyable game.

This is a horrible reason to lynch someone. "I think Keyen might just be town but at least if he flips town when we lynch him we wont have to deal with him". This needs to die with fire, you dont lynch someone because you dont like their playstyle or because you rather not deal with them.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bork

How about you get your head out of your ass and read my other posts where I'm scumreading him. Like seriously, are you stupid or something?

[Börk Börk]

And yet you're voting Bork because his vote has bad reasoning, not for any other reason (like any reason he's scum). The irony.

Im not voting Bork because of bad reasoning, im voting Bork because she said if keyen flips town at least we are rid of him. That serves two purposes for her. 1) No matter how he flips she wont look bad, that is scum logic she used 2) Wanting to lymch someone that you think may flip town is against your wincon if you are town.

I bet you she will respond with something like "no, i scumread him" when she admitted he might flip town which isnt a scumread.

I know you would LOVE to get me lynched, for what reason? I dont know but you are close to getting on my scum list.

I was merely saying that there is yet another added benefit to lynching Keyen, namely that we won't have to play with him. Perhaps my phrasing was a tad crude, but nonetheless, as I stated in my previous posts, try and find a legitimate scumread instead of cherry-picking my posts for a way to lynch me.

Also that final paragraph is hilarious. 'If you keep trying to lynch me then I'll say you're scum'

[Börk Börk]

The fact that Keyen is discrediting my case by calling me a newbie, and the fact that this is his

sole

defence, is just proof that he's caught scum who has no idea what to do.

Please lynch him. Even if he somehow turns out to be a bad town player instead, at least we'll have a significantly more enjoyable game.

I SRed him for this post. One time when I was scum and Keyen was town (this setup no less), I pushed Keyen fairly hard because he reacted poorly under pressure. This kinda looks like similar play.

You're operating under the assumption that I'm aware that Keyen reacts badly under pressure. Fact is, I neither know nor care. He's scum, I'm pushing my case on him, and regardless of how he reacts under pressure, he's still scum. The two don't correlate and your case on me is bad.

[Börk Börk]

At this stage I'm happy with a Keyen or Indigo lynch.

Cue Keyen posting some dumb GIF in response and Indigo saying that I'm scumreading him because he scumread me.

You know I'm right.

[Börk Börk]

Keyen, I would be more than happy to figuratively shake hands right now and be more civil towards you for the remainder of this game. Deal?

[Börk Börk]

To be totally honest, I don't think this is a case of lack of interest. I'm interested enough in this game, but I don't really have much else to say. I feel like doing a full analysis of everyone at this stage would be pointless, not to mention tl;dr; trying to convince people to move their votes would be pointless because I've already laid out my reasoning, and telling people to move their votes for the sake of it isn't really my style; and re-reading the game from scratch only to end up either repeating stuff others have already said or only making one or two very minor new points is... you guessed it... pointless.

I think we just need increased activity from a few more people and a more convincing bunch of wagons, and then we'll get going. Day one isn't really the most amazing part of a game.

[Börk Börk]

I see those two day deadlines approaching for multiple people though. Prod dodging here we come.

[Börk Börk]

Bah, I'll reveal what was my strategy:

We lynch the most unreadable players D1 and D2, so at LyLo we have players that we can read and go like "I'm pretty confident that guy is town, no paranoia" or "well, he's playing like he does as scum, so must be scum"

If we get a bit closer to the deadline and still don't have a proper wagon going then I'd be totally on board with this plan. Assuming enough other people are on board as well.

[Börk Börk]

Can we just stop and acknowledge that Snarky has seven posts, while most of us have over 20. And his posts aren't long content-heavy ones either. This isn't a scumread; just calling him out on it. Post more pls.

[Börk Börk]

Also I notice that Indigo seems to have vanished after multiple people put pressure on them.

[Börk Börk]

Look this game is stagnated af. Everyone list their top two scumreads and we'll lynch the one most widely scumread, k? Mine are indigo and pepchoniga

K

Mine are Keyen and Indigo.

[Börk Börk]

VOTE: indigo

- second highest scumread
- we're literally getting nowhere with this day
- indigo is lurking and hence not even useful
- seems to be a relatively agreed-upon lynch which we can actually get a wagon on
-

This is L-1, M'kay?

[Börk Börk]

The idea of a Creature lynch seems to be mostly policy-based right now, so I'm not especially convinced by it.

[Börk Börk]

The poor bastard replacing into Indigo's slot gets to sit at L-1 and argue with a relatively unreceptive player list. Couldn't imagine a better slot to replace into.

[Börk Börk]

Hi guys. Don't lynch me I am town.

lol k

UNVOTE:

[Börk Börk]

I'll try and find some motivation for this game this weekend and at some point on Sunday I'll go read everyone's ISO or something.

Bit shitty of Indigo to bail as soon as pressure was put on him, but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Börk Börk]

VOTE: indigo

- second highest scumread
- we're literally getting nowhere with this day
- indigo is lurking and hence not even useful
- seems to be a relatively agreed-upon lynch which we can actually get a wagon on
-

This is L-1, M'kay?

You are convinced about this lynch, bur not Creature? I call you bullshit.

Your push on Creature seems policy-based, and there's not much more to it. Why would I policy lynch when I have scumreads?

[Börk Börk]

This thread is deader than my social life.

[Börk Börk]

UNVOTE:

No lolhammers for me tyvm

[Börk Börk]

i mean creature's played terribly, gamma's been terrible, pepcho makes me want to bash my head against a wall, chilledtea comes in and says "vij is scum" and despite being THE BIGGEST WAGON, EVERYBODY BELIEVES HIM FOR NO REASON all of your gameplay is horrifically anti-town and i'm done with this crap.

You make a fair point. I think this is just happening because at this point nobody wants to make too much of an effort with this game.

[Börk Börk]

Why did I even take my vote off Keyen lol

VOTE: Keyen because my previous case still stands and he's done nothing to convince me otherwise. Bailing on the game definitely doesn't help his case.

[Börk Börk]

Vijarada, I feel like I ought to clarify this, I took my vote off Indigo/chilledtea because I wanted to listen to chilledtea and make most of my judgement of Indigo's slot based on the current slot holder. I did this because it's day one and on principle alone I prefer to avoid deciding that someone is 100% scum because, especially when it's only halfway through the day, as it was when I unvoted, it's just not that clear. I think a slot holder can make a big difference, and while I'm not totally townreading the slot due to Indigo's actions, I feel that chilledtea's demeanour and general helpfulness merited an unvote on my part. Especially since he replaced in when the slot was L-1.

[Börk Börk]

I'm willing to compromise on a lynch today, but obviously this'll only work if others comply. We would benefit from lynching someone today, and if as town we can all co-operate on selecting a player to lynch then it would probably help.

[Börk Börk]

VOTE: NL

If we lynch mafia D3 then town auto-wins (I think?). On that basis, would we be better off staying silent?

[Börk Börk]

nvm its in the role pm, who even reads the wins condition duh

Jesus Christ, if we were in a situation that merited lynching someone then I would policy lynch you asap.

[Börk Börk]

If we mislynch today then it's LyLo tomorrow

[Börk Börk]

Of course, if we lynch correctly today then we win, so...

[Börk Börk]

Mother of god, this guy isn't just annoying, he's also retarded.

[Börk Börk]

Hate to break this to you, but LyLo is something that both town and scum notice and are affected by.

[Börk Börk]

And actually same applies to my next post. Scum will be trying to avoid getting lynched today, while we try to find scum and lynch them.

[Börk Börk]

VOTE: cloudkicker fuck you and your quick hammer

@bork don't call someone retarded :/

Okay, sorry, not retarded. If I call him stupid is that any beter?

[Börk Börk]

#629 really shouldnt have existed, this is really a scumtell

Let me try and use your logic on you so you can see for yourself how bad your case is.

This guy used 'really' twice. This is scummy, as it suggests that he is desperate for town to believe him. Additionally, it is scummy because it shows that he needs to try and convince himself of his argument, because he knows he's bullshitting. He felt the need to add that second 'really' just to make sure that everyone saw his case as legit.

VOTE: CK omg I'm scumreading you exclusively off one post, but I am obviously right because my ego is too inflated to hear other people's logic.

UNVOTE:

I'll reserve my vote for now, but I hope this proves something.

[Börk Börk]

@mod

Snarky voted for CK, not me

Mod: Fixed.

[Börk Börk]

#629 really shouldnt have existed, this is really a scumtell

Let me try and use your logic on you so you can see for yourself how bad your case is.

This guy used 'really' twice. This is scummy, as it suggests that he is desperate for town to believe him. Additionally, it is scummy because it shows that he needs to try and convince himself of his argument, because he knows he's bullshitting. He felt the need to add that second 'really' just to make sure that everyone saw his case as legit.

VOTE: CK omg I'm scumreading you exclusively off one post, but I am obviously right because my ego is too inflated to hear other people's logic.

UNVOTE:

I'll reserve my vote for now, but I hope this proves something.

My last post on you is far from the only reason why ive been scumreading you, also everything i said is true, you could still be town tho

'you could still be town' sounds like a scummy defense. So when I flip town you can cover your ass by going 'oh, but I said she might be town'.

[Börk Börk]

You didn't even know what setup you had replaced into yesterday, so don't blame me for not taking you seriously.

[Börk Börk]

It's also my first open game. I read up on this setup before I started. I knew what I was doing. That's not an excuse.

[Börk Börk]

Snarky has 19 posts and nobody even gives a shit

Why bother posting more when I can just lurk through the game and be less scumread for it

I don't even know why he's bothering, because it's not like he's really playing the game in the first place

[Börk Börk]

Good fucking god there were two no lynches?

Bork, my 19 posts have more content than your 54. I did read you town but this screams "GOD PLEASE I NEED ANOTHER MISLYNCH"

The content of your posts is debatable at best. Sure, you throw down a vote occasionally, but you provide one or two sentences explaining it and then don't bother pushing it further. So what's the point of even voting?

And your activity seems to come up in bursts of one short post every two days. It's like you signed up for this game and then just decided that you couldn't be bothered ay more.

[Börk Börk]

Bit of a noob question, but: Would it be advantageous for us to make a second L-1 wagon, or should I avoid that? I would be happy to vote for Snarky in order to even the wagons out, but maybe that would be a bad thing somehow. And understandably we're at a point in the game where scum would be more happy to quickhammer one of the wagons. Technically if today I brought Snarky to L-1 and then someone quickhammered, maybe that would be a good indicator of scum? I don't know. Probably overthinking this.

[Börk Börk]

I must say, I haven't really contemplated Gamma being scum up until now. I guess all the v/la stuff just made me put down his 'posting for the sake of posting' as trying to make up for the time that he missed. I need to consider scum!gamma as a possibility based on those posts.

[Börk Börk]

@hapahauli

I don't disagree with your case, because from a certain standpoint it makes sense, especially the part about him generally being passive. However I wouldn't necessarily read his interactions with Vij as scummy, since if I had my vote on someone and then they said something that made sense, I wouldn't tell them that it doesn't make sense simply because I also think they're scum.

I don't agree with your townread on CK because:
1) Pushing the game forward isn't something that I'd label as inherently town behaviour. I'd say it's more dependent on one's general playstyle, i.e. active vs passive.
2) What makes one's attitude to a NL scummy? Again, I didn't read that as alignment-indicative.
3) Eeeeh... I can sort of agree with this point, I guess.

[Börk Börk]

Top lynches for me today would be Snarky or CK, though I can't see the latter happening.
Hapahauli is probably my top townread.

[Börk Börk]

I think Cloud is scum because his reasoning for why I'm scum was shitty and sounded fake. Why? Because it basically amounted to picking at wording and at the fact that I posted a post with additional info

right after

a previous one, even though that's basically my posting style. Scumreads picking exclusively at syntax or wording of a few posts are shit and should be ignored.

I think Snarky's lack of posting is worse for a couple of reasons. For one, literally nobody gave a damn D1 and D2, and it's rather surprising that

nobody

noticed. I'd expect at least one person (other than me) to call it out. That slightly hints to me that perhaps his scumbuddy was trying to distract from it, because lurking is normally something noticeable. Secondly, he makes votes, which would give a lot of people the illusion that he's being active and voting, but at the same time he doesn't really push his votes, so he can't be scrutinised that much if whoever he's voting for flips town.

Why are they both worse than Gamma? Firstly, I wouldn't say they're

a lot

worse than him, but I just don't think scum would be that obvious/nonchalant. Like, I just get the impression that he can't be bothered with the game and is half-assing his posts, which makes him kinda lynchbait. I just feel like scum would be making more of an effort to get things done in a setup such as this where being lynchbait as scum is especially bad.

[Börk Börk]

just ingore bork

Omfg, seriously? Replace out, go back to 4chan, and never play mafia again. Please

[Börk Börk]

Why is hapahauli top town?

Whoops, missed this question. Honestly, he's just making more sense than most people in this game.

[Börk Börk]

Towner than the others is a term that here is synonymous with top town due to my inability to discern any concrete townreads here. While I don't agree with your arguments, you're actually laying out the points in a believable way for a townie.

[Börk Börk]

And CK is mafia because, as I previously stated, I don't care if my argument isn't convincing to you. I'm hoping it'll just convince enough people to lynch him so that we can actually win this game.

And I don't think my reads on Gamma and Snarky are interchangeable. Snarky is trying to give the illusion of effort hidden behind minimal posting. Gamma seems to post more but half-ass the content openly. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

[Börk Börk]

Thanks for the fun game!

Second game of mafia, second time I've rolled mafia. And I'd really rather roll town next time so that I can actually scumhunt.

Also, does anyone have any pointers on what I should have done D3? Under normal circumstances I would hammer Gamma and that's that, but in this situation that would be playing against my wincon.

Oh, and sorry for all the insults thrown at various people. I hope nothing was taken too personally.