Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[Pine]

This is what trying to give a flying fuck about this game is like.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

I just post when I have time, more games and more irl stuff makes for fewer posts

Reminder to self to read wraith's spoilers on PC later

[Titus]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

Just saw this and ewww.

My posting depends on IRL and strength of read depends on evidence.

[Titus]

I'll explain my reads later tonight when home.

[Debi]

15. Debi - MURKY. Lurking.

It isn't that I am trying to Lurk, nor wanting to, I'm just having serious problems picking up anything to say for many reasons. There are so many posts going on in an hour or so, it is really really hard to keep up with it, I come back from college or from a nap, and there are 8 or so more pages, which completely contradict everything that person has done up till then. Also the spamming really doesn't help, especially not from drealmerz. I can't keep up with it, I'm struggling telling what is a joke, an argument, or stupidity. Also I prefer doing larger posts, and I genuinely can't do it at the speed of which this game is going. Of course I can on the odd, when something is obvious and stands out, however the spamming and useless posts for the sake of posting really don't help it. Like what is the point in asking somebody about their avatar and if they do their own GFXing?

Also somebody asked me why I switched votes from Gin to Drealmerz. At the moment, these are my strong Scum reads:
Gin
Drealmerz
Alisae
Zach

I'll happily change my vote to any of them, if I can come up with a more convincing argument against them. So I thought Gin was the easiest to get lynched a while ago, but it then changed to Drealmerz. With evidence I'm happy to change my vote to any of the 4.

[Dunnstral]

Uzi, Dunn and Zach are starting to bother me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So I thought Gin was the easiest to get lynched a while ago, but it then changed to Drealmerz. With evidence I'm happy to change my vote to any of the 4.

This sentence makes me uncomfortable

[Dunnstral]

Well I agree that the spamming doesn't help

[Pine]

So I thought Gin was the easiest to get lynched a while ago, but it then changed to Drealmerz. With evidence I'm happy to change my vote to any of the 4.

This sentence makes me uncomfortable

I approve of this product and/or service.

VOTE: Debi

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Debi, may I ask why you were going for the easiest lynch?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I identify with Debi, sometimes you do the have strong reads on D1 and you're fine with any of several lynches on scumreads. I don't like her spread of SRs though. I feel like Zach and Gin don't work as a scumteam so I feel like you'd develop an opinion of which is scum or if they're both town, but not think both are scum

[drealmerz7]

evidence

you'll change your vote with evidence, debi?

FUCKING EVIDENCE?!?!

[Ircher]

fake = lies = scum

one size does not fit all

[Ircher]

And if it is, how is that scummy.
Comes off as more NAI to me.

It is. Not even a lie as he put it -- just inattentiveness.

[Ircher]

you come off as NAI to yourself?

And?

[Ircher]

Actually let's do this instead

Titus, Texcat, Wraith, Pine, Gin, Kyouko, Ircher, Drealmerz
what is your read on the other person listed beside ywall?

Titus -- I forget who Titus replaces so null
Texcat - Null leaning scum
Wraith - Neutral leaning town
Pine - Neutral leaning scum
Gin - Null
Kyouko - Null
Drealm - Neutral leaning scum

[texcat]

That's a heck of a lot of null/neutral leans, Ircher. Do you have any reads that aren't null/neutral?

[drealmerz7]

that's possibly scum legitimizing their vote change(s) once a viable wagon gets some steam

[Ircher]

As for the rest of his posts, you'll also been keen to notice that I have been the only player he ever talks about. I've been the main contender for the lynch right now, and I can only see Scum!All Alone pushing a lynch on one player.

There is no room for town!All Alone to be tunneling one player and never interacting with anyone else.

Oh, there's no room for town to tunnel one player, you say? then wtf is this:

I'm not focusing on anyone else right now but All Alone, anyone else is distracting.

I find it really hard to believe that townGin CONSCIOUSLY DECIDED to tunnel on me, and then LITERALLY FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER decided that tunnelling could not possibly come from town.

And yeah, "focus" is

exactly

how I play town. DEAL. WITHIT

This is something I could get behind actually.

[Ircher]

I'm just using my vig shot on you, I dont care if I die claiming a power role, you're a worthy shot.

Breadcrumb Please.

[Zachstralkita]

Doing what I said I would do.

Debi, I know there's a shit ton of posts in this game but you've never responded to anything I've asked you or requested you to do and maintain a scumread on me. You never even responded to my response to your first read wall where you called me scum to begin with. If you can justify my scumread without engagement please do so. If you can update your read factoring in my reply to your original one at least that would be nifty. I don't really care if you still scumread me, I care on what basis you do it.

My case on Gin is as follows.

Spoiler:

The main pretext of my Gin read is that his scumhunting is false and shallow, and he's selectively chosen what he wants to respond to and how he portrays his opponents' arguments. He does a good job of creating a downright disingenuous narrative to explain any action taken against him or any action by his opponents. His more recent actions concerning his "claim", meaningless self vote, and approach toward me make him even scummier.


The icing on the cake is that his recent posts have done way, way worse for him. Yet, he still has a pretty decent chance of surviving Day 1 because of the loads of people en masse that aren't thinking, choose not to, or allow whatever preconceptions they have about me to prevent them from seeing things objectively.

Or they just disagree

. Yeah, you assholes. And then there's rb, who earlier used his magic wand with drealmerz's name on it to fuck town up the ass. He's gotten on the right track as of late in his mind at least, but of course the main dumb wagons like Alisae, drealmerz and Slick have already done their thing and acted as a giant fucking boulder crushing everything decent and now we live in loony world. With rb as head orderly of the loonies.

Then we have Dunn who chooses whether he wants to scum or town read me at the start of every game we play and tailors his play accordingly. Dunn thinks luxuries like "explaining your reads when they haven't been explained past surface level" are for men of a lower caliber than him, and responds with confusion and a scumread when you ask him to do so. I didn't ask him for further explanation on anything because I knew I wouldn't get it and I'm not going to get it now. I cannot engage like that.

Let's start from the beginning. Post 1194 is the catalyst where I abandon all preconceptions I had of Gin due to Pine's early push on him and actually read that slot.

Contained within are my initial thoughts then.

This propels us into actual discussion. Follow along!~ Please reread the posts in question as I provide them, that is if you care to and you can see if you agree or disagree with what exactly I'm saying about them.

1203: Gin says "If you say I'm still pushing for an Alisae lynch, that's a strawman argument."

Except, that's kinda not close to what I said. Reading the post I specifically start with Gin's early votes and move down the line. When I get to the Alisae vote, I talk about the Alisae wagon because what it was and what it said about those who were on it was an important point not to be undermined.

Now it isn't a conversation where you say things and then they disappear into the air, these are posts that you can reread as many times as you want. So a response such as that was either a deliberate misinterpretation or me structuring things poorly.

The second part of 1203 states:

"Slick has admitted to not wanting to contribute or put in input. That's a scum claim in my book."

Let's hop over to 1204. I address this statement for what it is: A plain misrep of what Slick said in post 1065.

Gin's implication is that Slick's lack of input was a conscious, deliberate effort to not add content to the game and he's expected to be granted a free pass for it. When that is clearly not Slick's intention.

[See above:

"He does a good job of creating a downright disingenuous narrative to explain any action taken against him or any action by his opponents."

I've said this twice now because it's going to hold resoundingly true by the end of this post.]

Gin's response comes in 1205.

He says I in fact, have accused him of still pushing Alisae(no I did not), then asks me to provide a benefit of scum defending easy lynches like that. Well gee. hard to pick one. cause theres a FUCKING MILLION.

The second part of that post is his idea of a defense, which is to paint me as hypocritical for not applying linear logic to nonlinear circumstances. The reason why this is a bad reaction is because town doesn't have to do that.

If town has an argument thrown against them, they can refute that argument with their own merit. What Gin attempted to do was discredit me and thus invalidate my argument by saying it's hypocritical because I'm doing it to him and I wasn't doing it to someone else that it "applies to". Except the best this would accomplish is to have a negative affect on me. It wouldn't absolve Gin of anything.

It's a guilty reaction. Town doesn't need to prioritize making their opponents look bad to make themselves look good.

But wait, we're not done with Gin's Operation: Onslaught.

The second wave of his invading forces arrive in 1209,

which will be broken down promptly.

I."Tell me the scum motivation in wanting everyone to contribute?"
- This manages to be a generalization of my argument and also

not

my argument at the same time. Gin is implying here that my problem with him is a result of him voting Slick for "not wanting to contribute".

The grave errors here are that first, my vote on him is being misrepresented. I voted Gin for misrepping slick and using that as a solid basis to vote him. He is continuing on the assumption that his misrepresentation is the correct way, it's the way things actually happened.

Second, there's no scum motivation in wanting everyone to contribute and I never said that. The scum motivation is in attributing malicious intent to actions which have none inherently, and then running with it. Yet this is not the argument he's responded to.

II. "Also tell me the pro-town agenda with allowing lurkers to continue playing throughout the game?"

This is the type of argument you find in the political threads. Normally there should be a clear progression in which the argument goes from point A to point B, and you're able to pinpoint why this statement makes sense with the current discussion and on what basis it is relevant. Instead we've started at point A and ended up on fucking Madagascar.

I never said anything about allowing lurkers to continue playing throughout the game.

I never said anything about THROUGHOUT THE FUCKING GAME, actually. It's underhanded to take an argument relative to the Day 1 gamestate and assume I am applying that logic to the past, present, and fucking future and then expect me to defend a statement like that like I actually fucking said it. My argument was relating to Gin's vote on Slick, Gin's statement about Slick's post, and Slick's post itself.

The next few lines in that post are noise.


III."I honestly don't see any logical reasoning as to the benefit of allowing people to just be part of the game and spectate. You give them a free pass because xshnsdfohaenyherjkujrke "

Really a blatant generalization. What course did you learn this generalization in. Who taught you. WAS IT CREATURE?

I never made an argument for lurkers as a whole, or attempted to defend lurkers as a whole.

My response to 1209 comes in 1210

. I basically say everything I just said except a lot less clear.

Next: 1212

where I explain why lynches like slick and dreal are bad. Note that this is still not a general defense of lurkers or a call to just let them slide.

Then, 1213.

Yes Gin, we are arguing two different things. You were the one who started that actually.

Interestingly enough something that I missed before. Read 1215

Gin says his Slick vote will prompt Slick to enter so he can get a read on him, when if we look at when the vote was actually made, Gin was already quite sure he was scum.

BUT U CAN HAVE THAT, THAT AIN'T EVEN WHAT IM MAD AT

My response in 1217.

Hey everyone, welcome to this evening's edition of

That's Not What The Fuck I Said

and I'm your host, Zachstralkita.

Tonight we have our returning champion Gin with post 1219.

*applause*

This is the third or fourth time he's illustrated my argument as being a defense on lurkers. He's again saying that I voted him for voting Slick simply on the premise of being a lurker. Thanks to what's already been said in this post, we can see it's not true at all. We'll be back with more after this commercial break.




We're back from the commercial break,

and I respond to 1219 with 1318

, which means exactly what it says. After that, no further discussion.

Nothing's been resolved. Gin has left his broken argument as is, meaning we're playing the same game on two vastly different fields. Now I know Gin's okay with that, but the part that pisses me off is that everyone else is too.

Anyway, Gin takes the time to respond to others' arguments and scumreads on him but he never ever responds to 1318, agreeing or disagreeing. This says quite a lot.

That was the bulky stuff. Now to seal the deal.


Now there was no real progression of Gin's read on me after our whole debacle. Yet in 2254 and 2255, he pops up with not only a fake claim but a hard scumread on me, one that's worthy of a "shot". When he gives no indication as to why this is valid. He had PLENTY of chances to state a formation of this read WHEN we argued, but he never did it. One can only assume it's because I'm pushing him and I am considered more credible than the other people that are actually pushing him. Thus I am a threat. But it's a very sloppy maneuver and it leaves much to be desired. If you guys think change from town read to scum read with 0 visible progression and only in the face of danger is cool, well fuck you too then. Gin is playing a very convincing part because he knows he can get away with it with this town. rb is not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination but his actions thus far are akin to taking a 7 year old, going "awwwww" and then chokeslamming them through a plate glass window. But he also gives them applesauce like that evens it out.


It doesn't even it out.

[Ircher]

Remember, the those 3 pushers of my lynch, also Echo. Let's end Day 1 please.

VOTE: Gin

reads somewhat genuine.

[Dunnstral]

tl;dr

[Dunnstral]

that's a joke, I'll thoroughly dismantle zach's crusade later. making a mental note


Want to talk about debi?

[Ircher]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

I concur w/ the latter assessment.
VOTE: Titus