Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

You're definitely Guilty.

[BTD6_maker]

It's mostly RVS here.

Anyway, I basically looked at Karnos vs. GuiltyLion. I don't have much time at the moment but what I will say is that it is GuiltyLion that looks slightly worse from the interactions.

[BTD6_maker]

Still mostly RVS.

Not much that is actually AI has come out of this. The strongest thing I have got is that with GL vs. Karnos, Karnos had less resistance to the wagon making me think scum were trying to resist GL's wagon. It's RVS so it's still incredibly weak and scum could be doing anything.

GuiltyLion comes out as nullscum from this. Everyone else seems fully null.

I know I am not posting much here but I am starting to feel that there is not much to say, as pretty much nothing is AI or worth commenting on at this stage.

[BTD6_maker]

We've been out of RVS for quite a while tbh

We're still at some phase in the game that is at least very similar to RVS, or the next step after it, where anything may or may not be NAI but, if alignment indicative, is extremely weak. Even if it is not technically RVS, it is RVS for all practical purposes. I consider the game out of RVS when you can form reads based on something meaningful that is not extremely weak. For example, from my viewpoint GL would have a 25% chance of being scum by random chance. Now I consider it to be something like 25.5%. This is nullscum for now, but later on something like this wouldn't even be worth calling nullscum as opposed to pure null.

[BTD6_maker]

Why are you obvious town?

serious question: are you saying that I am not? I've been obvtown since my first post of the game tbh

Explain why you are "obvtown". This is a serious question as you are at the moment marginally the scummiest here. No one can be obvTown in this game barring a Cop or Gunsmith clear.

[BTD6_maker]

Why are you obvious town?

serious question: are you saying that I am not? I've been obvtown since my first post of the game tbh

Explain why you are "obvtown". This is a serious question as you are at the moment marginally the scummiest here. No one can be obvTown in this game barring a Cop or Gunsmith clear.

no, it's on you to explain why I'm scummy. My alignment speaks for itself

Alignments are inanimate and, as such, lack the ability to speak. You will have to speak for your alignment because it won't speak for itself.

[BTD6_maker]

Mod, I will be V/LA from the 26th December to the 5th January. I will still try to occasionally post though.

Anyway, GuiltyLion looks worse from what he says. He assumes that without any evidence that he is scum he should be considered Town, and that the game is about explaining why people are scum, not why people are Town. This does not hold up.

Firstly, if there are no reasons for Townreading or scumreading a player, that does not make them obvTown. It makes them null.

Secondly, looking at why players are Town (Townhunting) can be as helpful as scumhunting, and defending your claims that you are obvTown is helpful for others to assess whether you really are.

Thirdly, letting a baseless claim like "I am obvTown" stand without being challenged makes it meaningless. If you declare yourself obvTown but refuse to back it up, don't be surprised if it comes under scrutiny.

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

[BTD6_maker]

How are you exactly reading BTD's push on you here? Hard to tell.

honestly BTD just makes me exhausted when I read his posts, dude's a brick wall and it seems like he's trying his damnedest to ignore the point of what I say and reframe the argument into something stupid. I'm not sure if he's scum or if he's just doing it unintentionally

That's your take on me? It may help if you were trying to understand my point - that you need to back up these claims - rather than assuming that I am ignoring your point, when I am refuting it. I am doing this entirely intentionally. I am intentionally refuting your point, which does mean I am "ignoring" what you said about not having to defend what you say. This is necessary as I cannot accept that you do not need any explanation and should be regarded as obvTown by default while refuting your claims. I am rejecting your claim, not "trying my damnedest to ignore the point". In doing so, I am not reframing the argument into something stupid.

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

I was mostly referring to karnos instead of you in that section. See these quotes from karnos:

and you conceded it was a "play error".

Nope. I said it *might* have been a play error.

But luckily you revealed your alignment by jumping on as only scum would

, so it's a fair trade.

My proposal: we lynch guilty lion. If he is town, he should be okay with being lynched because his flip will validate his argument and theoretically town could lynch me in retaliation.

Except that won't happen because he is going to flip red

.

I do want to know, BTD6 - why aren't you holding these claims up to the same level of scrutiny as you took on my "obvtown" remark? karnos is calling me scum and depending on his alignment he will naturally have different thought patterns as to why he is making that claim. My point is that his statements are more worth diving into, especially given that you're voting me already.

This is at least more interesting. You are giving me other information to scrutinise. It may be true that I have focused on you, but I can explain these as well. At first glance they may look bad, but then I realised the difference. Karnos gave reasons. (Not in these posts, but in prior posts). He may have exaggerated but he had revealed reasons earlier. His main reason was based on your comment to his post about letting him get lynched even if he was a Death Miller. It is clear that he scumread that post, and he could cite this as evidence for the formation of his reads. Can you cite evidence why you're obvTown?

[BTD6_maker]

I did a quick ISO of ArcAngel9.What I found was just about nothing of anything. My ISO has a lot about the GL/Karnos interactions and not much else as that was what I focused on. ArcAngel9's ISO is pretty much empty. There is practically nothing Towny or scummy there. For now, I do think GL comes off worse as weak scum than ArcAngel9's lurker null, but I may consider voting ArcAngel9 if the slot refuses to give any content.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: ArcAngel

would currently prefer this to Charloux

Opportunist scum.

Give more information. When I asked for more content I meant more than this. Explain why you think that vote in particular is opportunist scum rather than Town. We need content from your slot.

[BTD6_maker]

My Internet is horrible. I well post normally after the 5th.

[BTD6_maker]

I am back. The Internet was terrible so I could pretty much only do the bare minimum needed to stay in the game.

Anyway, the ArcAngel and GL flips need analysing. I need to see why people voted ArcAngel to a lynch etc.
After a quick read, Karnos and Charloux look most suspicious but I will go into greater depth to evaluate them.

[BTD6_maker]

I have read it in more detail, and it looks like Charloux actually seemed more Townish on a reread. I get the sense that Charloux is showing genuine frustration. However, after the GL kill I seem a bit more inclined to scumread Karnos. It seems plausible that Karnos suspected that GL would push him later after AA9 flipped. Karnos is mainly scummy after Day 1 (I suspected GL at first, but he flipped Town so Karnos being scum is more plausible).

VOTE: Karnos

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Btd

Yet again a naked vote without reasoning. If you had any reasons for your vote, explaining them would be a good idea. If not, unvote.

[BTD6_maker]

i mean culted could be scum but woudl anyone lynch them? i can't find a good reason to call them scum but i can't find a good reason to call them town either and that's where nullscum usually is, someone talk to me abouty CuLTeDD ADAD d D

I would be willing to consider Culted but only if he refuses to give a good reason for his naked vote on me. The Karnos wagon seems to have stalled.

[BTD6_maker]

I do not see any reason to claim until someone gives intent. Do not try to rolefish before then.

Culted gave some reasons. Let me unpick them.

Firstly, you claimed that 415 was a scumpost, purely because of slightly unnatural phrasing. Do you really think this can make someone obvscum? Town players can easily end up saying things with odd phrasing and scum players can make posts that seem to flow. This is not particularly AI, and definitely not what I would call a scumpost.

Secondly, the reason I gave you the benefit of the doubt was that before seeing your reasoning, I was more convinced about Karnos than you. 435 made sense as a reply to keyXrb given my 433.

This is currently a better vote than Karnos.

VOTE: Culted

[BTD6_maker]

My read on Lemons is weak-moderate Town. It wasn't any post in particular (just about everything could theoretically be faked) but his ISO overall seems more Townish to me.

Either way, I still consider Culted at roughly moderate scum.

It seems Karnos claimed PR. I am also in favour of Karnos fullclaiming. I am presuming he got an Innocent on GL, in which case GL is cleared provided there is no CC.

I will still not claim until someone gives intent. Claiming now is anti-Town. Is this site meta to claim at L-1? If you were not going to be lynched anyway, why claim and give information to scum?

[BTD6_maker]

I was off-site when GL was killed and Day 2 started, so it didn't cross my mind.

Although Karnos claiming to check the person who happened to die seems suspicious, but we should wait for a fullclaim.

[BTD6_maker]

I was reading Culted for scummy reasoning. You do not need to know who died to say a post of that type is scummy. I forgot about GL dying due to skimming it after my V/LA.

[BTD6_maker]

Do not lynch me. I will claim, but first I want Karnos to claim fully.

[BTD6_maker]

I am the Cop.