In post 331, ChaosOmega wrote:Vedith (3) - Human Sequencer, PsychoticDave, shaddowez
Creature (2) - Vedith, Mewtaph
TTTT (2) - Tenshii, nn30
nn30 (2) - Creature, TTTT
In post 434, ChaosOmega wrote:I don't want to end the day with a third of the game either needing replacement or will imminently need one. Suspending deadline for now, sorry for short notice.
In post 575, Grendel wrote:Why would scum be avoiding town!Dave?
In post 700, PsychoticDave wrote:In post 699, TTTT wrote:In post 641, PsychoticDave wrote:UNVOTE: Hiraki
At least for a split second, you thought I hammered.
Anyway, I'm going to look at Hiraki's ISO.In post 642, PsychoticDave wrote:Okay... so...
I townread Hiraki...
You Iso'd Hiraki in 3 minutes?
And you claimed Chosen Townie?
Should it take longer to read less than a page?
In post 458, Hiraki wrote:Hi - will catch-up either tonight or tomorrow morning. Aiming for tonight.
In post 460, Hiraki wrote:This is a bad vote but it's RVS so whatever.In post 7, PsychoticDave wrote:VOTE: Vedith
Scum 100%. This is a serious vote.Then I really don't like your vote.In post 19, Creature wrote:(fun fact: my RVS votes tend to be slightly serious if the player I vote already posted)Small townpoints.In post 22, Human Sequencer wrote:No, it was a gambit. Based on your question that I baited you into asking, you are scum, and Human has been acting really towny while at l-1. I also buy their claim.
Die scum die.I hope this is the D1 flip. If not, work needs to be done.In post 36, Creature wrote:What are the other reasonings to put someone at L-1 without warning?
If I was new, I would do the same thing that my predecessor did. I don't agree with it but I understand where he is coming from.You're taking these two too seriously.I hope you explain this.In post 100, PsychoticDave wrote:I'm getting the feeling that Creature is Mafia and knows who the Chosen Townies are, so he's trying to act like he doesn't know.
Tenshii's vote in 111 is fantastic and is probably the best post of the game thusfar.
Mewtaph is pretty townie from 131. :^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^))))))I was quite OK with my predecessor's vote and that's coming from someone who tries to usually say the opposite. What's wrong with a bit of pressure?In post 158, shaddowez wrote:Asks Misa for reads in 113, then sheeps a vote on her in 131 before she answers.I buy this theory pretty hard and there's not a lot of scumslip theories that I buy.In post 167, Vedith wrote:I understood that he is Creature but why can't they be scum together? Your post indicates that Human is town 100%?I either don't buy this or fully understand this.In post 179, shaddowez wrote:In post 167, Vedith wrote:I understood that he is Creature but why can't they be scum together? Your post indicates that Human is town 100%?
My post in no way says that. Let's start with the idea they're a scum team - there's no way Creature's RVS vote happens like that. He draws way too much attention to both of them during RVS by putting Human at L-1 and then unvoting. It's RVS, he could have easily avoided the wagon entirely and it's doubtful anybody would have thought anything of it.
Now, if Creature's town like I think he is, then his behavior makes sense regardless of if Human is scum or town. Creature doesn't know, so putting an RVS wagon at L-1 is terrible. If Human is town, it allows for a derphammer/quickhammer. With 1 page into the game, I can't imagine town having a solid enough read on someone to risk that.
Are you kind of guesstimating if a scum team would do something on D1 to save themselves? It's a bit too theory heavy for me with no flips.Vedith and I rarely 100% agree but when we do, it's kind of bad. This behavior is really quite intolerable.Very faint buddying here tbhIn post 193, Human Sequencer wrote:Unsure on shadow. Need more.
It's either 'probably town' or 'probably scum' once I work out his personality though, none of this 'kinda' bullshit.Really? I hope this stuff doesn't continue.I don't buy this - mind explaining what you mean in this post a little in depth?In post 228, Human Sequencer wrote:Vedith is setting up mislynches, this man knows who is town and who is scum and he knows both creature and I are town.
Really don't get the Dave TRs.too nice tbh, hopefully your posts will make Misa's mistakes look better - Misa always seems weird.In post 259, TTTT wrote:@dave
I think I counted 4 posts where you said anything that might be usefulThis is fair. I don't think it's very fair to just post something without content.In post 264, nn30 wrote:Back it up. Link to everything you've just linked to, but this time, with an explanation for why you think I'm acting in each of those particular posts. Then tell me why you think my analysis is superficial. Then tell me how my 'acting posts' aren't just town poking and prodding in the way that I play town and are, in fact, scum motivated. Then tell me how my 'analysis' as you see it is scum motivated. Then we can begin to have a conversation.
oo 282 is a bad vote, I apologize for Mewtaph for being such a cuck - would've rather voted shadowehThese are some pretty shitty scumreads (less shaddowez) tbhIn post 292, Creature wrote:Lynch preferences (no order):
shaddowezI don't agree with this.In post 302, shaddowez wrote:All you do is say I'm scum for lurking/dodging, but would rather lynch somebody else first.I agree with this.In post 302, shaddowez wrote:Additionally, if you actually thought I was scum way back in 165 for a "scum slip", you would've pushed me a hell of a lot harder.Not a fan of this at allIn post 319, Creature wrote:Oh nvmMod: Just in case this happens again, you have the right to enforce content-related prods.In post 326, PsychoticDave wrote:I've still said all I have to say.
I'm just waiting for the day to end.
I'm not playing with a player with such an attitude like you again.
I don't get the point of trying to figure out pairings without a flip. Can we not do that?I don't like this - you were doing really well too.I would much much rather lynch you than anyone else for this vote.In post 438, PsychoticDave wrote:VOTE: shaddowez
There's a difference for "wanting the day to end" and voting for no reason. This is /literally/ going to happen again tomorrow.I really liked everything else in this post but this and this was probably the most important part.In post 449, shaddowez wrote:I'd rather a Vedith lynch, but with the slot replacing anyway I'll do this.
Why does the player make a difference if your read on the slot was dependent on the slot? That might sound redundant but I hope I'm getting my point somewhat across.Please play the game. This is horrendous play regardless what role you have. The fact that this is UNANIMOUS among all players in the game should say something to you.In post 459, PsychoticDave wrote:I just want the day to end so we actually have evidence for these accusations rather than accusing people for not being active enough.
Here's my opinion of the current people alive (please read below before voting so quickly m8ys):
Human Sequencer - I need to re-read these posts in ISO. Vedith was very much adamant but I'm not sure if I agree with that push. I would rather Human live to D2 rather than be a D1 lynch.
PsychoticDave - Player who is ruining the game by being a baby about the game. This is an OK D1 lynch for all of the wrong reasons. I would really rather a replacement (sorry mod)
shaddowez - I'm OK with a lynch on this slot. Would give a lot of good reads and isn't very consistent in scumreads (n.b. that the reads part is moreso focusing on townreads)
Tenshii - Generally town, I would also like to ISO to confirm some of the failures in his current play (last few pages)
Grendel - I TR'd Vedith but it was very weak.
Creature - Town due to interactions not so much due to content.
TTTT - Scumread only due to Misa stuff - definitely not a D1 lynch.
nn30 - Would like to look into TTTT's claims. I will admit that if I skimmed anyone's posts the most, it was here.
Won't be voting until I finish doing some due diligence on the above. Reads are subject to change based off of that. Also note that these reads are coming out of finishing the review of the game and not taking a step back and looking at my review at a whole. It is definitely an incomplete work.
In post 463, Hiraki wrote:Rather TTTT atm tbhcan't buy this tbh but I appreciate the explanationIn post 461, shaddowez wrote:No - I'm saying I don't think that scum would put a buddy to L-1 in RVS, then immediately unvote and say "I didn't realize they were at L-1". Is it possible, yes, but that early in the game it read more as town to me.Agreeable - I can do the same. Difference of opinion in this case.In post 461, shaddowez wrote:If the slot is actually scum, it's usually easy to identify with the replacement, but I like to give them a chance.Same.In post 461, shaddowez wrote:Secondly, I hate the idea of lynching an empty (ie waiting for a replacement), because at that point it's basically like a lurker/policy lynch.
If I had to rate lynch candidates, you'd be the lowest on my scum-tiered list
In post 472, Hiraki wrote:Why are you voting Dave when nn is a lower scumread? Really don't like that vote, nevertheless the reads list
In post 494, Hiraki wrote:From my last post, there were a few things that I needed to look at a bit more closely. For formatting (read: you can ignore if you're not interested in reading thoughts that are basically equivalent to just internal recap) here is what this post will discuss:
1) Human Sequencer ISO
2) nn30 ISO
3) Creature ISO
4) Current Updates & Vote
1) Human Sequencer ISO
This should be the shortest of the three based on what I am seeing pretty early on - nothing really commentable.
Very adamant on Vedith scum and using connections based off that for reads. I don't really like that but it's not a scumtell.In post 311, Human Sequencer wrote:yes, shadow is misunderstanding Vedith's post and the ruleset and this makes him -town-
A) Why isn't this just a person making a mistake rather than town making a mistake?
B) Can you explain your Creature townread a little more? Specific examples would be nice. The only reference I can see is your reference to 231 (in 240) and I don't see how you get that it's a town post. It's literally just his opinions - is he town for agreeing with your thoughts?
Really would like more content. Just null overall tbh after doing some reading.
2) nn30 ISOSomeone (sorry, it's a bit late so I'm not checking whom) notes this inconsistency. It's kind of bad.In post 58, nn30 wrote:I'm not a fan of lynching this early in the game.
I agree that Vedith has been basically jacking off since the beginning of the game and doing this is not helpful to town. That said, I see no reason to lynch so early. I'm not confident enough in a Vedith lynch and we'd lose out on a lot of juicy info.
Human - I don't think you'd be so brazen as scum to advocate for a page 3 lynch. Town reading you.This is a bad post for someone that is experience - nn30 doesn't sound dumb.I'm not a fan of this post either for the above reasons. There is really no logic here.I'm very confused. You've been an advocate of not lynching quickly but you're not taking off your vote nor are you letting off on this scumread.
I also don't like that by ISO 40, nn30 has basically voted anyone who has accused him of anything. I can get a vote on here.
3) Creature ISO
This will happen after 25th. I don't think I will be voting Creature though.
4) As per above:
I would be OK voting NN or Shadoweh. NN would cause lynch tho so I will wait.
In post 515, Hiraki wrote:I'm really not sure where you can comment on anything.In post 498, nn30 wrote:Human's ISO is full of commentable stuff.
It's very bland and full of short posting. It's the exact reason I wanted to revisit his ISO.I am still waiting for an answer. What are the benefits in this situation?Grendel wrote:Was an incredibly arbitrary point to draw out. Hiraki is an intelligent enough player that he should be able to read between the lines. I definitely feel like such a surface level observation has scummy motives.
I'm not a huge fan of your answer when you say the following:
1) Hiraki is smart enough to know why I'm doing this
2) Hiraki might not know how I play the game and therefore that's why he doesn't know why I do this
Which is it?
In post 522, Hiraki wrote:Vote: nn
as promised basically in my last post
would rather this over dave even if he's being useless
In post 525, Hiraki wrote:I read him as a player that is trying to be both - are you calling him a noob? I'm not going after Dave tbh, I 100% agree that he's being arrogant but I would rather lynch scum rather than arrogance.In post 523, Human Sequencer wrote:I don't read him as a particularly experienced or logical player
In post 562, Hiraki wrote:Keyword: might - there were no definite in my statement. This is literally the first time we have played. If I'm wrong, I honestly don't remember off-hand.In post 529, Grendel wrote:I've explicitly said that you've seen me favor lynching secondary/tertiary scum reads over my primary ones.
I actually did not know. I know people that do that and I know people like me who do not enjoy quick compromises on second/third scumreads if they're that far down the list.We'll have to agree to disagree on both points then (i.e. 527)In post 526, Human Sequencer wrote:I believe his actions and mindset are more consistent with 'inexperienced town' than any kind of scum.
Dave just looks like he's mad that he joined a game that had people he didn't like playing with but because he doesn't want to be an asshole and replace out, he's decided to be an asshole and stay in.This is very assumptive. Dave is also the one player people are uneasy to comment on. I don't think it's due to alignment reasons.In post 547, Grendel wrote:His wagon lacks the fluidly of many others this game. Wouldn'y that mean that scum don't want this lynch to happen?I hate asking theory/player questions but I feel like you have an opinion that you can catch scum based on how they post rather than what they post? Is that true?In post 553, Creature wrote:shaddowez posting once per day (sometimes once per two days) is irritating, though, I'm not sure if that's how scum posts looking at his last posts.
In post 565, Hiraki wrote:Isn't that what town does too? Don't want to get boggled down into this theory stuff, just trying to figure out where your methods are coming from.
In post 590, Hiraki wrote:Cheeky. I enjoyed this.In post 574, Human Sequencer wrote:Scum don't need to read the thread, they already know everybody's alignment so scumhunting isn't a priority for them.
I'm going to drop the argument for the same reasons that you are but I would like to make it clear that you and I have not played a game together therefore you cannot push the assertion that I know how you think in game.I'm being very lazy. Does he usually act like this? Or does it have a lot to do with the playerlist?Grendel wrote:I just checked out Dave's other games. He does get mislynched a lot.
In post 638, Hiraki wrote:Sorry - I'm focused on another game that's ending at the moment. I will read this this evening.
In post 640, Hiraki wrote:oh jeez are you serious how did things get this bad
this other game shouldn't last more than a few hours but we're at endgame so I'm going to retain focus there
i sincerely hope you guys aren't voting me because i decided not to talk here but was talking in that other game
In post 647, Hiraki wrote:dave you never even voted me - I'm going to shuffle a bit but you guys are voting me because you don't townread me while being on a wagon?
here's my defense:
In post 648, Hiraki wrote:also dave you never voted me
In post 650, Hiraki wrote:XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
In post 661, Hiraki wrote:it's hard to get a read on Dave - at least he's being cooperative today, I guess - hopefully he doesn't get to the point where he's needed all that he's needed to say againIn post 655, Human Sequencer wrote:Hiraki, what is your read on Dave, and what do you think about Dave's read on you? Does it seem grounded and realistic?
I don't know if you can apply the word grounded and realistic to Dave's play either but yeah - I don't think that it's inappropriate to call someone a townread if they haven't done anything scummy.
Dave is a good lynch for reasons that should not be good reasons - I can't call him scummy tho, just anti-town null if that makes sense - I think it's very cute that Dave references this in 573.but you don't want to talk about it
t-that's fineShaddowehz has been a consistent scumread for me. I don't think I've thoroughly examined that post. I'll get back to you with my opinion on it tonight, if you don't mind? Not something that I think I can answer to the best of my ability while juggling.In post 659, Creature wrote:What do you think about this post? (It happened when shaddowez was the top wagon and deadline was about to expire before the mod announced a new one)Is this based off of meta?Human wrote:Do you see anything interesting in it? I don't see it as particularly telling towards scum or town, other than that I feel like scumShadow would probably be more passive and/or hurried/rushed in that context.
In post 686, Hiraki wrote:472 isn't a defense of dave as much as it is a question of Grendel's reads - will post comprehensively later
In post 690, Hiraki wrote:I'm busy to write anything that i'd be satisfied to die with so don't
In post 697, Hiraki wrote:i apologize, i've been misreading your posts
no more juggling
In post 729, Human Sequencer wrote:What out of these two realities seems more realistic to you?
1. Dave is town. Dave spends all game posting nothing of value. As soon as Dave is run up, he claims chosen to try and get Human lynched because he believes Human is scum, even though he knows he may not be chosen. He gambles that the other players won't bother reading into the setup, and instead hopes Human will be flashlynched. He then comes to believe that he is Chosen townie, based on Human pushing him.
2. Dave is scum. Dave gets run up, and then claims chosen because he misunderstands the setup and assumes that Chosen townies get a different role PM. As soon as he is proven wrong, he backs out of it and writes it off as a gambit. He then comes back later saying that he truly does believe he is Chosen, trying to subtly imply that he always thought that and that's why he claimed, even though he heavily backpedaled on the claim before.
That is an open question to everybody in this game except Dave.
In post 1, ChaosOmega wrote:Special rules for this setup:
- During pre-game, the mafia will select one player to veto. This player cannot become a Chosen Townie. 2 of the remaining 6 townies will be randomly selected to become Chosen Townies.
- The mafia will be informed who the Chosen Townies are, but the Chosen Townies will not be informed.
- As long as both Chosen Townies are alive, neither can be night-killed or endgamed (1 or 2 Mafia Goons vs. 2 Chosen Townies is a town win)
- Chosen Townies will flip as Chosen Townies.
- Town cannot no-lynch; if no majority has been reached, whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. If there is a tie, whoever has had that many votes for longer will be lynched.
In post 806, Hiraki wrote:The last two posts are reassuring me that it's you and Tenshii - what's your read on Tenshii atm?
In post 815, Hiraki wrote:so then I do have to ask why are you SRing Umalut for something that Tenshii has been doing for literally this entire day
In post 864, Ümläüt wrote:I just don't see it. But granting this point arguendo, it's still true that Dave is not the sort of player we want hanging around for lylo, or the sort of player the Mafia is going to kill for us.
Anyway, explain again why bad town makes an impossible fakeclaim, then retracts it, then tries to find some sort of middle ground between retracting it and not.
scum would be more aware of the mechanics in this set-up than town...
town not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role is more likely than scum not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role
In post 868, Human Sequencer wrote:TTTT, there is no fucking way Dave is chosen unless you buy into scumHuman.
In post 901, Creature wrote:Mafia needs to kill the other Chosen Townie so they can kill me.