Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Day 2)

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Post Post #5  (isolation #0)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:45 am

hey friends! this is my first game here and fourth game ever (i have played on dominion forum) and i'm town

VOTE: gigabyteTroubadour

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Post Post #7  (isolation #1)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:53 am

ooh!

2. i like the people at dominion forum but part of the fun of mafia is making character judgments about people you don't know
3. thus far, i have been mafia twice and town once. at this point, i was happy to get town just because of that, but i also like town more because knowing everything is boring
4. i like target-investigative roles, the example here being tracker

UNVOTE: gigabyteTroubador, VOTE: ThinkBig

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Post Post #17  (isolation #2)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:33 am

In post 10, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:_schadd, is your TB vote serious?

mine is :]

a bit. the questions were all things that i would either say or not say, if you catch my drift

_schadd, schadd_, sch_add are all fine. i'm usually schadd, i think it wanted a non-alphanumeric or something

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Post Post #19  (isolation #3)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:36 am

In post 17, schadd_ wrote:i think it wanted a non-alphanumeric or something

oh, nope, i just misunderstood it. which is why none of you have underscores

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Post Post #53  (isolation #4)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:51 pm

how often does the IC get nightkilled, if town? intuitively, they will be the best target for killing a strong town player but also they ought to be kept around, from an etiquette standpoint

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Post Post #112  (isolation #5)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:00 pm

obv was not trying to softclaim tracker, nor softclaim not tracker, etc. that said, i also got the rolefishing impression
In post 6, ThinkBig wrote:Let's get some random questions
4. What is your favorite/least favorite role?

5. if you had to sum up your role in this game in one (1) fleetwood mac song, what would it be?

i've been reading the thread. i don't really trust my townreads, esp. d1 (my first and only town game was a flawless scum victory) so i don't have anything really interesting to say. rn i think creature is town, GBT is kinda town

not taking the vote off of TB for now

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Post Post #113  (isolation #6)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:01 pm

there isn't any way to view all pages in one big stack of html? skull emoji

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Post Post #116  (isolation #7)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:17 pm

In post 115, gigabyteTroubadour wrote: :dead: :dead: (type in dead between colons to be just like me :dead: )

yeah. or i could click on the thing on the right side of my screen. skull emoji

In post 115, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:also that's a boards of canada avatar right

ye

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Post Post #120  (isolation #8)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:27 pm

i thought it was implicit in:

In post 9, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:4. wouldnt you like to know :dead: :dead: :dead:

VOTE: ThinkBig

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Post Post #146  (isolation #9)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:56 pm

woof. also, that's the mod's color, skull emoji

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Post Post #153  (isolation #10)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:00 pm

feels too calculated to me

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Post Post #155  (isolation #11)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:03 pm

we also definitely have less than 14 days

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Post Post #164  (isolation #12)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:09 pm

In post 157, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 153, schadd_ wrote:feels too calculated to me

what, the claim?

yuh. {claim before catching up} :right: {assert against the grain that there can be reasons to claim at l-2} rubs me the wrong way

In post 157, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
schadd_ wrote:we also definitely have less than 14 days


splitting hairs, the point is valid even if TB is scum because

Creature wrote:Two players yet have to post...


sure

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Post Post #173  (isolation #13)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:22 pm

In post 171, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:~

:dead:

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Post Post #180  (isolation #14)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:59 pm

In post 178, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 164, schadd_ wrote:yuh. {claim before catching up} :right: {assert against the grain that there can be reasons to claim at l-2} rubs me the wrong way

Could you go into more detail for me?

Can I get your analysis on some of the other players too?

sure. claiming at L-1 on d1 is generally an accepted thing (i don't think anyone claimed before that in any of the three i played, except for v special occasions/being especially frustrated) and TB did that; he did it without reading, apparently, but also (implicitly) acknowledges in that you generally need a reason to do it. this seems to me like he just decided ahead of time that he was gonna claim on L-2, which rings a bit scummy to me.

re: other people: creature i'm town on, because GBT is especially confident about it; this seems too ridiculous for both scum and, uh, GBN seems uniquely confident enough about the read to rule out GBN town, creature scum.

GBT earns a bit of a townread just because they're posting very much a lot, not especially dense but not sparse either. at least, they are an especially confident scum player

nullish on you (raskol); interrogating is towny, emotions are scummy. a bit more of the former, tho

gayreen: agh, null. his only voting item was on me; newbie!clumsy!scumhunting is townie, voting me is scummy (+some tone je ne sais quoi that i don't like)

mbg: also null. 4 kinda sparse posts

again, i'm not confident on townreads

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Post Post #184  (isolation #15)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:04 pm

GBN = GBT, whoops. GBN is an acronym for something else that i already know

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Post Post #186  (isolation #16)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:11 pm

In post 182, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:1. i mean for me i guess this is valid (i'm more of a quotestripper as scum based on my one game) but some people are good at faking this

2. is anything about my hyperposting genuine specifically?

3. also i think rasks's emotions are very townie, why would they be scummy?

numbers added

1. what's a quotestripper? :wink:
2. uh, nothing in particular. there's just a bunch of stuff (almost a third of posts in the thread) and it's more that you haven't screwed up than that you have done anything remarkably genuine
3. i only emotions'd once, as scum. i think it's easy to fake, since people tend to sound silly when they're angry anyway. it surely depends on rask's precedent, tho

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Post Post #194  (isolation #17)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 pm

In post 187, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
schadd_ wrote:
In post 182, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:1. i mean for me i guess this is valid (i'm more of a quotestripper as scum based on my one game) but some people are good at faking this

2. is anything about my hyperposting genuine specifically?

3. also i think rasks's emotions are very townie, why would they be scummy?

numbers added

1. what's a quotestripper? :wink:
2. uh, nothing in particular. there's just a bunch of stuff (almost a third of posts in the thread) and it's more that you haven't screwed up than that you have done anything remarkably genuine
3. i only emotions'd once, as scum. i think it's easy to fake, since people tend to sound silly when they're angry anyway. it surely depends on rask's precedent, tho


1. Someone whose posts are usually long walls with bits of quotes and responses. Like if I write a big wall, a quotestripper would quote maybe each sentence or two and respond to it (or put a bunch of quotes in one post). :laugh:

2. :? .... how exactly would I "screw up"? like outright scumslip or

3. Really? Most people (especially tone readers) usually believe that some degree of emotion is possible to fake as scum, but usually you can tell if someone is being genuine if you know what to look for. Like Rask's emotions feel really natural and reasonable considering their contexts (his annoyance at me saying that his play was within his scumrange probably, his reaction to TB's claim) to me. Scum might react more... obviously? (like they might state "ugh i'm pissed that..." and not really show their emotions as much through tone)

2. i dunno, you haven't done it. i don't mean full screw up, but, like, none of your opinions have seemed fishy
3. yeah, maybe i'm not as good at that as other people. i have scumread many a town for what seemed to me like "ugh i'm pissed that"

i'm used to strategy games where meta is an impersonal term, but i'll use it

In post 189, mattblackguy wrote:
voting me is scummy (+some tone je ne sais quoi that i don't like)

Why was voting on you scummy? And what does the stuff in the parentheses mean?

because i'm town, silly. and there is a vague sense of not-genuineness that i get from him, but it's not very compelling

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Post Post #198  (isolation #18)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:56 pm

it makes it scummy from my perspective, tho; maybe you should seem town to everyone else

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Post Post #200  (isolation #19)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:08 pm

GAYreenHamster wrote:ok, well you cant exactly call someone scummy because ,from your perspective, they lynched town (unless cop confirmed). And im pretty sure that last comment wasnt exactly needed? i mean, not everyone will always think im town anyways, and it isnt like you seem like town to everyone else as well...

it's an opinion. i will forever be slightly more willing to vote you than everyone else, and the reason behind that is documented

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Post Post #204  (isolation #20)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:28 pm

if that's still directed at me, uh, sure. i'm familiar with the term. note that voting me once isn't sufficient grounds for me voting you (see: i'm not voting for you), it's just that you're a little bit more likely to do it if you're scum than if you're town. again, from my perspective

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Post Post #206  (isolation #21)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:33 pm

hey. welcome

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Post Post #231  (isolation #22)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:01 pm

In post 213, Shade wrote:
In post 198, schadd_ wrote:it makes it scummy from my perspective, tho; maybe you should seem town to everyone else


why should scum bother to scum read you when they can just kill you? why town can't mistakenly scum read you? You're making no sense.


not sure where those questions come from. all i was saying is that when someone votes for me, it makes them seem scummy to me, given that i know my alignment. the second question doesn't have an answer; town can totally misread me. the first question doesn't make sense to me; if gayreen is scum, he is going to want to lynch a town during the day (which he would try to do by saying he has a scumread on them). he will also want to kill a town during the night.

In post 218, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 213, Shade wrote:Why would you vote someone to get them lynched, that soon in the game?


If you have a scumread (you think someone is more likely to be mafia based on their posts and your perception of their motivations), then it's simply playing to win to vote to have them lynched. The only reason, at least to me, to withhold your vote is if you're not ready to end the day with a hammer and claim.

I'm assuming that by asking that, (if this is not true then you can ignore this question) that there's a reason you believe I shouldn't have voted TB in that instant? If so, why?

to add to this, even though it is very unlikely that a townie can be confident about who scums are on the first page, voting is still a good idea. firstly, most games have RVS at the beginning; there isn't really a way to naturally have discussion, especially if everyone is in the same position (not voting, not voted for). voting for people makes asymmetry and gives town something to talk about (which GBT sorta mentioned). as well, it makes you accountable; announcing townreads/scumreads as scum is difficult and unnatural because you already know alignments, and you're necessarily fabricating some reason to want to kill someone if they're town, or not to kill them if they're scum. people are bad at doing this. thus, if i say i think TB is scum for X reason, not only do other people get to talk about the validity of X reason, but also it makes me seem towny because that would have been a (slightly) difficult post to make if i were scum.
incidentally, if somebody avoids taking stances or only parrots what other people say, it will seem very scummy.
hope this makes sense.

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Post Post #237  (isolation #23)  » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:14 pm

In post 179, Creature wrote:Okay, I'll post my reads as soon the two unexistent start existing.

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Post Post #238  (isolation #24)  » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:15 pm

although i suppose we haven't really heard from rakkar

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Post Post #320  (isolation #25)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:05 pm

@GBT, rask: how many games have you played?

i feel in a bit of a weird position. GBT can apparently confidently townread half the cast, and neither of rask and creature has really called them out on it. so, uh, we're golden i guess?

i'm gonna evaluate lynches, pretending that we haven't won the game. which is a possibility

TB is uh a vt if he's town, so that's a fine lynch. to me, he seems totally fake, but sometimes i hear people talking IRL and i'm like, you're scum, buddy, and TB gives me the same impression as those people. also, the fact that he colored "vanilla townie" green makes me wanna puke. esp. since it's the mod color, as i mentioned. he still has some posting to do.

rakkar is an uninformative lynch i think. he has posted twice and been talked about.

shade is active and tryna scumhunt, so, a bad lynch. creature is on him, though, and he's town. as far as my read goes, uh, the questions seem hard to fake but there seems to be a bit of a non-linear character progression. i will either explain that later or never.

another option: if GBT is actually that good at reading people, we can just lynch them and then know they're not fudging things up. which is a nagging concern that i have, albeit a small one

gonna stay on TB for now. there is more to be learned and we already know a lot, it looks like

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Post Post #339  (isolation #26)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:38 pm

In post 338, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:and yeah i am very easy and enjoyable to mess with

ooh
how to do?

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Post Post #349  (isolation #27)  » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:56 pm

might we want to pressure lynch TB real quick? skull emoji

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Post Post #350  (isolation #28)  » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:57 pm

imo the best way to get someone back into the game is to put them at L-1 and then vote them another time

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Post Post #353  (isolation #29)  » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:11 pm

i would hydra with you but we might already be the same person

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Post Post #365  (isolation #30)  » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:50 pm

In post 321, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:i would like to hear about shade's non-linear character progression though

i asked myself whether i should reread shade and make sure that makes any sense and i decided, nah, i should just say that i might never talk about it again.
what it really boils down to is having an opinion on claiming:
In post 272, Shade wrote:Second I didn't vote Thinkbig for his claim. I'm voting him because I want him to answer "why he claimed".

...while also asking a bunch of questions that seem to reflect a misunderstanding of scum's intentions. there's a super obvious and likely town narrative there (not being/having been scum; understanding that lynch at l-1 after intent is standard/parroting other people's opinions) but it's also stuff that a scum emphasizing newbieness would try to feign

i don't like to overdo this but there isn't anything else going on:

scum to town
thinkbig
rakkar
shade
gayreen
rask
matthew broderblack
creature = GBT
...where "still substantially null" starts with matt and ends with rakkar

if anyone cares, my two games (that matter) (they need a login):
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index ... ic=16147.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index ... ic=16339.0
christine mcvie > lindsey buckingham > john mcvie > mick fleetwood > stevie nicks

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Post Post #489  (isolation #31)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:48 am

In post 389, cassielle wrote:creature is townread because A: i dont know anyone of these folks and i trust their knowledge of him

what?
In post 389, cassielle wrote:notes toward a reads list, p3:

rask is doing a lot of head-nodding, automated yesman behavior. "yeah, uh-huh, yep" with really shallow concerns tacked on.

In post 33, Raskolnikov wrote:HMMMMMM

HMMMMMMMMMMM


In post 392, cassielle wrote:1: noobtown seems to lean toward the paranoid side. theyd see q4 and dive deep into the ocean of WIFOM madness and decide its best to just pick a role that isnt theirs, or they wouldnt care and the mafia learns absolutely nothing even despite that. certainly no ones gonna ask about vt, how the hell can this be rolefishin since everybody gonna pick a p common role most likely but no ones gonna say vt? scumscuse for anti-town behavior imo

this definitely describes less than all scenarios. this is a mafia forum, and it's probably hard to find if you're completely unfamiliar with the game, but there has probably existed some newbie, somewhere, that would see this post and say something readable about their role. it's really not a large probability, but scum might be able to pick off a PR with little risk, and i don't really see any way the question could add to discussion/hold people accountable somehow.

In post 392, cassielle wrote:also noticing a lot of strong townreads from gbT but v weak scumreads, which is a tactic i employ as scum. you have perfect knowledge and you want to hide that, but you also have to look like youre contributing. this guy gets 4 perfect townreads by p4, but doesnt have any good scumreads? yeah no not buying that garbage.

uh, this doesn't make sense, especially considering that several other people are doing the same thing. newbies can be townread pretty easily, and apparently creature can as well.

In post 392, cassielle wrote:am more certain after 110: getting bored, no suspicion in their direction, trying to encourage people to read past games so theyll see their town game and get suspicious (and i did). wants to have a chance of losing but everybody tiptoing around the subject and/or sheeping.

this is dumb. you gotta think of things in terms of town narratives vs. scum narratives, i.e., something is only scummy if scum is more likely to do it than town. sure, there's a pretty little reason that scum might do it (which assumes that someone isn't playing to their win condition, which is just not a good assumption) but there's also a super obvious reason town would do it, so that they are easier to read, which town wants to be.

In post 392, cassielle wrote:also dismissing softclaims in an overly WIFOM-aware way, smells like S C U M. down to nullscum you go pal

i'm assuming you're referring to this sentence:
In post 112, schadd_ wrote:obv was not trying to softclaim tracker, nor softclaim not tracker, etc.

firstly, that's not wifom. people asked whether i was softclaiming and i clarified that i wasn't. "not claiming tracker" kind of implies that you're not the tracker, so i added the second part. secondly, how is wifom in terms of your power role scummy? the sole reason you have wifom with respect to PRs is to get scum to nightkill the wrong people.

In post 392, cassielle wrote:gbT trying to test the waters with how far they can make people sheep them in 115, seriously now. why was this not discussed? oh yeah because schadd_ legitimized it. S C U M B U D D I E S

uh, i don't see it. the third line, maybe? like, you're assuming that they said that thinking everyone is sheeping them, and so they asked me to figure out the gap in their townreads? again, this just makes sense as GBT is asking me opinions on someone they can't figure out.

In post 400, cassielle wrote:schadd_; really, i just want you to explain your reads in detail, like, fullstop. theyre not feeling nice to me, im not liking them one bit. convince me you came by them honestly

detail is what i used, as scum, to look like i was doing something. if you say something simple and then link to a post, then the attention is taken off of yourself. to add to this, i don't really have any grandiose reasoning for anyone, but i have given some amount of support for all of my moderately strong reads; you can probably find them if you really want to. i couldn't go through everyone without repeating myself. if you scumread me for that, cool.
incidentally, "theyre not feeling nice to me, im not liking them one bit." doesn't feel nice to me.
christine mcvie > lindsey buckingham > john mcvie > mick fleetwood > stevie nicks

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Post Post #493  (isolation #32)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:03 pm

In post 491, cassielle wrote:regarding my reads on you: the little bit of WIFOM-awareness in there was like, cherry on top? its not a strong aspect of what im working off of atm. theres also post 53's sheer evil (NAI at /best/ but no town wants to know that for town reasons imo, the best hope is sheer curiosity) and your really strange reads list.

alrighty then.
-again, not wifom.
- i dunno what NAI is. i posted that, kinda curious about the etiquette about IC & SE (where i played, there wasn't anything like that & newbies aren't distinct in any official way) and also knowing that somebody would probably have to answer uncomfortably
-mm. i'll have to take your word for it. maybe we disagree on rask because L-1 is easier to shrug off where i come from (it's not like there is any danger really associated with it; if somebody just hammers and then TB flips town, cool, let's go after the hammerer) and GBT because, uh, i don't see why you think they shut discussion down. we have, like, 20 pages here. also linking games about yourself is a bit brash and hard to do effectively as scum.

fuck, let's just go through all of them.
gayreen: you say "everyone agrees obvtown" a lot. i think that he's low on content, and tends to ask "should i do this?" a lot, which is definitely newbie but i don't see it as alignment indicative. i would say that my past reasoning def. wasn't "i don't like him," and i think i even clarified too much why it wasn't that. he voted for me with what i thought was a kinda dumb reason, and then didn't get why i found that scummy.

mbg: asks people for clarification a lot, seems to be reading a lot more than posting, and not drawing attention to himself. this is, i think, marginally more likely to come from town. going from mostly null to calling out an exact scumteam is definitely odd, but he's at least making himself accountable. i think scum doesn't really want to put themselves that much out there.

shade: ,

TB: first line of , and has some ~feelings~

creature i'm content to not look too hard into for today.

cassielle wrote:i havent seen any of your reasoning for your reads. i cant parse the reasoning behind a fair few.

these seem like different things. please feel free to ask me for clarification (and i would ask that you use the post tag)
christine mcvie > lindsey buckingham > john mcvie > mick fleetwood > stevie nicks

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Post Post #688  (isolation #33)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:06 pm

In post 679, mattblackguy wrote:This lines up 100% perfectly with Rask's scum play in previous games.

i would say this is only valid if he doesn't do this in town games. he claimed at a point that it's intuitive to do so if he is in fact the tracker
christine mcvie > lindsey buckingham > john mcvie > mick fleetwood > stevie nicks

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Post Post #738  (isolation #34)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:05 pm

a lot of stuff from cass strikes me as confirmation bias rather than intentional misrepresentation.

@: i agree that gayreen was quite low-content and made a lot of easy jabs. the inconsistency in character thing doesn't entirely make sense to me, but i see it regarding his finnicky/unfinnicky voting.

scumslip is the word of the day, isn't it. also a lot of this hinges on skimming being scummy, which i don't think is the case. wanting to post soon is pretty towny; scum tends to be more calculated. i guess, more so, it's NAI (which i know know what it means).

eh. i could consider the lynch, though. atm, gayreen is kinda on the scum side to me (i was expecting more to come out of him at my last list, which ofc it never did) and -grey- is angry, and kinda null. townish posting tendencies (simple callouts, responding frequently & self-consistently) but getting a bit too frustrated with cass's arguments (she's done that with, like, everybody, bub)

staying on TB; i want him to be at L-1 when he explains the reads. am v excited
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Post Post #777  (isolation #35)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:55 pm

In post 776, Raskolnikov wrote:I guess you could say

people who live in glass houses

shouldn't throw stones

what a weird haiku
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Post Post #878  (isolation #36)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:06 pm

In post 743, cassielle wrote:schadd_ began slightly defensive but cleared himself after he realized i wasnt just trying to smash him flat -- i genuinely wanted to be convinced

what happened to that?

re actilurking: uh, i would say that i'm actually just doing the regular kind of lurking. i'm def. reading the thread, but for the last 6 pages i kinda wanted to let grey & cass argue, which has been fun.

readlist concerns are probably valid.

town
creature - dead horse (but watch it be a GBT-creature scumteam)

rask - claimed tracker and hasn't been counterclaimed. plus, tracker is a kind of difficult fakeclaim i think. forgetting this, though, i would put him at null-kinda-kinda-town. claim matches this one (again, needs a login; to quote: "Fuck this. I am the tracker. Move your vote now." the dude was the tracker.) he's also taken the same attitude as me about cass & grey arguing, which is biased. has been emoting a lot, which gets harder to do while seeming consistent, which he has as far as i can find. giving me a full newbie clear in is odd considering his attitude in (and i don't think i should be easy to read)

nulltown
shade - really nothing sticks out to me in a bad way. last time i commented about him i was worried about feigned newbiness, but there has been a steady growth in, e.g., use of the lingo and stuff that makes that seem more difficult to do. not impossible, though. he has also not been that big on reads; i certainly wasn't D1 of my first game but he has been calling out individual posts a lot; this is easier to do as scum than broad reads of a person i think. this isn't very strong, though, and there's def. some amount of scumhunting

null
GBT - well, dipped off a bit in terms of posting, which sorta kills my town-from-posting-a-lot read. seems a bit of a convenient piece of emotionsing, considering such. my prevailing opinion about them now is that they shouldn't be readable D1.

mbg - there's a lot of stuff that reads as newbscum that is afraid of D2. town always has the reassuring knowledge that they're town, and any votes that they do are ultimately justified. as well, as a newbie, i was generally excited to try my hand at scumhunting and wasn't really worried about my reasoning being dumb. i'm not a fan of mbg's hesitance with voting and, recently, tendency to discredit his reads. i'm not sure how his confident reads at the start of the day fit in to this narrative. this all aside, he's been really transparent with his reasoning, and more so as the game progressed.

nullscum, not ordered
cass - wowowow, schadd. she went up to nullscum once she voted you, jeez. but yeah, not a fan. i think that she has gone back and forth on everyone at this point, maybe except shade. she is very talented in the art of choosing a person and cooking up a bunch of scum narratives and slips and whatever. it gets hard to townread that after a while, and it gets less useful as the days progress at the very least.

greyreen - more of a read on gayreen than -grey-, still. there ofc isn't more to say about gayreen since . grey is definitely angry, which i think you get good at feigning if you play F2F, but who knows. pointing things out before reading all the way is kinda towny, but i would think he knows that. there's a lot of rhetorical/unanswerable questions which gives me a yucky impression (see , , , ). it's kinda hard for me to divorce scum from mean and abrasive, so this is more difficult.

tb - still waiting on the readlist, winky face
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Post Post #894  (isolation #37)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:27 pm

In post 879, -Grey- wrote:
In post 878, schadd_ wrote:grey is definitely angry, which i think you get good at feigning if you play F2F, but who knows. pointing things out before reading all the way is kinda towny, but i would think he knows that. there's a lot of rhetorical/unanswerable questions which gives me a yucky impression (see , , , ). it's kinda hard for me to divorce scum from mean and abrasive, so this is more difficult.

Those questions are neither rhetorical nor unanswerable. They are pointed. They put the recipient on the spot for a reason.

mm. the one that stuck out to me was, perhaps intuitively, the one that you asked me. , "schadd_, why does your ISO read like coasting scum?" and obviously, i mean, i don't really see it, because i'm town. me being able to answer this pulls counter to the sentiment of (though this may have been a rhetorical question, heh). so, it feels like you're just fishing for me to not be able to answer your question.

In post 879, -Grey- wrote:Scumreading somebody simply because they're not sunshine and rainbows is ignorant. Abrasive play gets more genuine responses than being Mr. Rogers.

yes, and wouldn't it be sunshine and rainbows if that was the basis for my read of you
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Post Post #895  (isolation #38)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:29 pm

doing 880 later
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Post Post #902  (isolation #39)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:48 pm

In post 880, cassielle wrote:1 cleared my original concerns, yes. there are new ones,and some old ones, and my concerns arguably should have been addressed better by you originally.

2 did you see ? it's a very good read. from the time i entered the game this has been a concern and it keeps going that way. you keep dodging scrutiny. may or may not be related, but lets live on the edge and just flatly claim that it is, unsupported by evidence.

3 and you sure are hyperdefensive. vote for you = scum instantly? why? why is scumreading you scummy? and where is your scumhunting behavior? scumhunting is natural to town even if it gets pointed the wrong way once in awhile

4 why is your vote the same exact vote as post #7? why has that not moved? its safe to say the wagon has stalled, in fact, on multiple separate occasions. do you really believe in that vote that much? do you truly have that much conviction in it? where do you get that conviction from a 23 post ISO which is devoid of content?

5 why is this second readslist substantially identical to the first aside from "gbT went inactive" "shade is uh something lets call it nulltown" "i actually have an opinion on cass and its mostly because she voted me and tries to aggressively scumhunt"? why would gbT taking a day or two off (because thats all its been, really) instantly drop them to null? why does it seem like you cant form an actual opinion on shade and so you just throw that slot in nulltown? indeed, from your description, why not just null? why are all your reads weak and without conviction?

6 how the hell are and unanswerable or rhetorical? mbg managed to answer 838, which is the exact opposite of that, and -grey- has pursued and asked followup questions to all of your examples. er, except 801. because, well, you havent even tried to answer it to begin with, just thrown your hands up and said "impossible! must be rhetorical." why dont you want to answer?

numbers added

1. cool

2. uh, i don't have especially a lot of townreads. creature has a thing, gbt i think is unreadable rn, as i said (i could lynch them on a different day, feel free to hold me to this), rask claimed. outside of them you see a kinda nuanced list.

as far as dodging scrutiny, what in particular are you referring to? beating a dead horse but you do have a tendency to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, and there's a lot that i don't think is worth responding to/don't really understand. what do you think is your strongest criticism of me?

3. mm, not instantly. if you're talking about how i'm reading you, there's other stuff.

what counts as scumhunting? i point out what i don't like.

4. why should it have moved? a 23 post iso that is devoid of content sucks. i've continually wanted him to come back with votes on his head, he never has, and that makes me want to keep the vote there.

5. uh, the people are the same people, still. except for the two that switched out, who are, granted, in the same place but with different reasons. tb has provided no reason to change the read, creature isn't gonna move, rask claimed. so, now there are 6 spaces to switch around, and they kinda did. gbt is not in null because they took a day off, but how, as somebody (rask? but can't find it in his iso) pointed out, posting a lot isn't as impressive if you like playing scum.

as far as the last part, uh, that is where we play this game differently. you can't actually know who's scum day 1. i only played the one town game but i have read through a lot of other ones, and i've been wrong enough times that having "conviction" just sounds dumb.

6. elaborated on why is bad in . he's asking me to explain something that he is reading in me
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Post Post #903  (isolation #40)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:07 am

In post 899, -Grey- wrote:
In post 894, schadd_ wrote:
In post 879, -Grey- wrote:
In post 878, schadd_ wrote:grey is definitely angry, which i think you get good at feigning if you play F2F, but who knows. pointing things out before reading all the way is kinda towny, but i would think he knows that. there's a lot of rhetorical/unanswerable questions which gives me a yucky impression (see , , , ). it's kinda hard for me to divorce scum from mean and abrasive, so this is more difficult.

Those questions are neither rhetorical nor unanswerable. They are pointed. They put the recipient on the spot for a reason.

mm. the one that stuck out to me was, perhaps intuitively, the one that you asked me. , "schadd_, why does your ISO read like coasting scum?" and obviously, i mean, i don't really see it, because i'm town. me being able to answer this pulls counter to the sentiment of (though this may have been a rhetorical question, heh). so, it feels like you're just fishing for me to not be able to answer your question.

I'm fishing for you to justify your play, which you aren't even trying to do.

Attempting to redirect my question as a reason to scumread me isn't going to make me go away.

i don't really want you to go away.

do you see the issue, though? the way that i naturally approach this game reads badly to you. i don't really know what about me reads like coasting scum. my skill in mafia is making connections between things people say, building/remembering characters, and uh math on occasion. prodding at people and arguing, not so much. my habit is to wait for people to argue things out and then find what's fishy. maybe that ends up sounding like actilurking or something, i don't know. adding on, you said it yourself, D1 is dumb, things will make more sense to me later on.

dunno if this is what you're looking for
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Post Post #904  (isolation #41)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:21 am

In post 880, cassielle wrote:why does it seem like you cant form an actual opinion on shade and so you just throw that slot in nulltown? indeed, from your description, why not just null?

forgot this

...because i feel slightly town on shade, all things considered? it's ultimately kinda gut, as most reads are, but he did a reasonable swath of town stuff (pointing out some inconsistencies, having some opinions) and asked questions about scum motivation, and there was increasing reason to believe that he wasn't feigning it.
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Post Post #1034  (isolation #42)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:45 pm

In post 1033, Raskolnikov wrote:See schadd online. Hi Schadd!

hi
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Post Post #1037  (isolation #43)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:51 pm

In post 953, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:^also bbcode for schadd_ since i'm like 100% he'd use this reaction picture too

i know bbc, and am not generally interested in reaction picturing this game
In post 1001, Creature wrote:So far schadd_ is the only possible counterclaim to Rask.

not ccing
In post 974, cassielle wrote:i still think schadd_ did not address anyones concerns and that i really, really want to hear more from him soon on them.

l0l
In post 940, Raskolnikov wrote:Wouldn't mind seeing cass claim.

In post 974, cassielle wrote:i stand by my rask read (i.e., superscum)

In post 974, cassielle wrote:Vanilla Townie

l0l
In post 974, cassielle wrote:my reads were crap

l0l
In post 974, cassielle wrote:(though tb looked p undeniably like scum)

In post 880, cassielle wrote:do you really believe in that vote that much? do you truly have that much conviction in it? where do you get that conviction from a 23 post ISO which is devoid of content?

fuuuuuuck off
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Post Post #1041  (isolation #44)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:57 pm

VOTE: cassielle
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Post Post #1045  (isolation #45)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:59 pm

In post 1040, Raskolnikov wrote:Also very good points schadd.

thanks mom
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Post Post #1048  (isolation #46)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:00 pm

In post 1043, cassielle wrote:im really, really confident of that read though. even though theres literally no point in it. can we drop it? like, for real.

i don't think i need to say it again
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Post Post #1049  (isolation #47)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:00 pm

In post 1047, Raskolnikov wrote:Cass already claimed, I'd take her out of hammer range for now.

mm.
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Post Post #1055  (isolation #48)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:05 pm

In post 1054, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:pedit: schadd_ is townposting

are you calling our town shit?
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Post Post #1064  (isolation #49)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:16 pm

In post 1060, Raskolnikov wrote:If there's a BP in the game they should probably claim, though.

uh, scum doesn't necessarily know whether it's doc or bp yet, but presumably they shot you

incidentally, are you saving the tracker result for something? feel free to not respond

good night
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Post Post #1067  (isolation #50)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:18 pm

agh, do i have to?
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Post Post #1071  (isolation #51)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:20 pm

In post 1069, Raskolnikov wrote:G'night! :]
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Post Post #1072  (isolation #52)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:21 pm

In post 1070, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:also schadd i gave u the bbc in case you phone post so u dont have to upload to imgur but if it's not ur thing i feel

l0l
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Post Post #1098  (isolation #53)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:38 am

In post 1097, cassielle wrote:for a minute there i thought maybe we could actually scumhunt properly (yknow instead of trying to pick the easiest player to build a case on when QED all of our townreads are messed up) but im p sure most of town is going to take that deal in because im easiest target

only issue is that im gonna flip green

im standing by

im also gonna say that ... TOWN: regardless of your opinion on his reads: RadiantCowbell's post is /mandatory reading/
there will be a /test/
seriously, reread that post until it is burned into your brain
your town block contains one or both scum
you need to lynch them before you run out of MLs
today is the best time but im willing and ready to go down as a martyr on this so you can get it right d3*
again: you are townreading scum, period

*-this is partially because somehow and i dont know how, i have no credibility here anymore, so ive given up on being able to save myself. its not MyLo or LyLo so idc too much.

i have thought about it for 29 hours and determined that this post is meaningless
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Post Post #1144  (isolation #54)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:38 pm

In post 1095, RadiantCowbells wrote:I have only once been wrong on a townread of this nature and it was on someone who basically stalked my mafia play for months to understand how to beat me.

this sounds like a lie
In post 1119, RadiantCowbells wrote:The answer to where you're wrong, assuming town, is that Creature knows exactly what you're looking for to townread him and did exactly that.

mm. especially considering:
In post 16, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:early game I don't like to give reasoning for most of my actuons because it helps develop my reads

...and i vaguely remember them making some other argument about hiding that sort of information (maybe with cass?) that i can't find
In post 1131, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1130, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 1118, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

With my EYES!

fart off
In post 1133, -Grey- wrote:That said, I'm likely to sheep RC if Cass flips scum because no way does scum enter the game power-bussing the way RC came in screaming for cass' head. He's pretty much conftown when she flips red.

that whole most cunning manipulator accolade isn't really doing him any favors, though
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Post Post #1148  (isolation #55)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:43 pm

In post 1147, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1143, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 1095, RadiantCowbells wrote:I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

I don't bus.

It's a stupid tactic that is overused when a little dancing could avoid a scum lynch 99% of the time.

that's not real
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Post Post #1153  (isolation #56)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:48 pm

In post 1149, -Grey- wrote:
Spoiler: quote
In post 1148, schadd_ wrote:
In post 1147, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1143, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 1095, RadiantCowbells wrote:I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

I don't bus.

It's a stupid tactic that is overused when a little dancing could avoid a scum lynch 99% of the time.

that's not real

Your face isn't real.

my avatar has 3 faces and yours only has 1
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Post Post #1184  (isolation #57)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:38 pm

In post 1177, -Grey- wrote:Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

in sorta the same vein as the bussing thing, dunno if this is real

gigabyteTroubadour wrote: :dead:

@schadd_ this is what i meant by me being fun/easy to fuck with earlier in the game i think

mm yes. i can tell because of the skull
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Post Post #1201  (isolation #58)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:58 pm

In post 1199, cassielle wrote:im considering your wagon. it looks juicier than schadd_'s about now. what the hell?

lord
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Post Post #1203  (isolation #59)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:04 pm

In post 1202, cassielle wrote:when i got weak reads and then this comes out of nowhere i guess it isnt that hard to overshadow your wagon

but keep in mind that since the start of d2 ive been considering yours most highly of all schadd_, so its a p big change from my side of things lol

it's less that (though that's silly) and more that "juiciest" is evasive and you're spooked by your own read
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Post Post #1251  (isolation #60)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:10 pm

-grey-: i'm leaning town. we have someone on dominion forum that's very similar (argumentative, likes to tick people off, pulls shit like ) and he is more helpful and easy to deal with as scum, to the point of being a tell. obv they're different people though, but that's the parallel that i have

i could go for a creature lynch. i guess there isn't really strong reason to believe me but i was sorta feeling uncomfortable with him through d1 for uh other reasons that he voted for me (you can kinda see i just stop talking about him in readlists, and i went from "he's town" to "he's not readable today probably" around the same time as i did so with gbt) (it went sorta the same way i feel about toni morrison: good thing i know that she got an award for being a good storyteller, because otherwise i'd be pissed). assuming it's not gigabyte/creature, i can totally see him noticing giga's read on him, totally not acknowledging it at all, and proceeding to try to seem engaged; his d1 iso is a bunch of one-liners, kinda dime-a-dozen opinions, and general opinions of the game as a whole; not a lot of reasoning on reads. not like there isn't a town narrative there (one of our better town players is sorta similar), but it fits cleanly as an inflating-y scum. assuming it is a giga/creature team, l0l

UNVOTE: cassielle, VOTE: creature
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Post Post #1308  (isolation #61)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:05 pm

In post 1300, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:and creature and cassie schadd_?

?
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Post Post #1315  (isolation #62)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:14 pm

In post 1312, mattblackguy wrote:Giga, isn't Grey like conf scum now?

nop. my guy that i'm comparing him to will do that thing, addressing someone as scum, while being like "nah they're town." it's still possible to be scum that forgot his reads tho
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Post Post #1316  (isolation #63)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:14 pm

In post 1314, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:literally every slot in this game that isn't conftown is what i call a "frog-in-a-blender" read

constantly moving at 500 mph

red and green. red and green.

gah
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Post Post #1328  (isolation #64)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:32 pm

In post 1321, mattblackguy wrote:
In post 1315, schadd_ wrote:nop. my guy that i'm comparing him to will do that thing, addressing someone as scum, while being like "nah they're town."


As a joke or being serious? Because it didn't look like Grey was joking.

doesn't seem like joking/not joking; grey just likes to get under people's skin, and it might be a post that he makes still thinking creature's town. a third person yet that i'm thinking of from dominion forum does this as well; he called a scumteam of me and two other guys (when, incidentally, the three of us were scum) and crafts a silly narrative with it, then puts me as his highest townread next post.
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Post Post #1415  (isolation #65)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:22 am

l0l

gonna talk this evening
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Post Post #1466  (isolation #66)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:19 pm

wall

is a bit of an odd way to start an especially confident scumread, pinning it to someone else

In post 1375, Raskolnikov wrote:I wish I had actual meta on some of you guys

i posted my games [nervous anime face]

In post 1381, mattblackguy wrote:Schadd lies here

lol

In post 1381, mattblackguy wrote:his team mate would be a bad lynch, because he's active and trying to scumhunt when he only had 7 real posts, and most of those posts like contained basic questions about the game.

this is so obviously misleading; he had something like twice the word count as you at the era of 320, and only about 4 fewer posts, having replaced in. ditto for the latter part; you even used the word "contained"

In post 1381, mattblackguy wrote:Shade saw there was a ton of pressure on Schadd with him being at L-2, and had no idea how to react so he just flaked.

or, you know, maybe he couldn't keep up with the pace of the game and might try again when his current project finishes.

uh, the rest of the post is you describing how events happened under the assumption that we're scum. "he feels it gives him a bigger chance of winning" is especially hilarious because it's by definition true for either alignment

creature isn't really deflecting because no one really prodded him for anything. disengaged, though. and i think he has a lot of nai "i usually think" sorts of things as well as "this feels towny," which in excess reflects negatively on an experienced player as far as i've found

In post 1386, mattblackguy wrote:He dug himself in a hole saying that Schadd is obvious town and the only way out of it was to hammer ThinkBig.

is 20 minutes before the hammer. the assumption you're making is that he dipped in, impulsively townread his partner, then realized aw crud that's a dumb idea.

In post 1443, cassielle wrote:whats everyones thoughts on

kinda town in the obvious sense that scum only doesn't want to get lynched, but mbg probably knows that and i've put thought into doing the same thing when i was scum

holistic mbg read: reverse r kelly. that is to say, my mind is telling me yes but my body is telling me no. so, deciding both days that your reads are correct and you win, having them be completely different between, having one of the ones on d1 flipping town and one on d2 being me, sucks farts. but agh. there is a town thing behind it. see, both days he did it after we started to stall: d1 it was after we all townread each other & decided not to do anything until everyone had posted, toDay there isn't really anything waiting to happen and we've had a few irl days where nobody really posted. i can see town mbg wanting to get something going and dumping his livelihood into some reads that he has.

but agh. that doesn't really make sense given that he's willing to die for the reads. i mean, the case to me seems pretty obvious and i think that it's generally pretty weak (not gonna put words in people's mouths but i get the impression that's the consensus) and mbg seems savvy enough to notice that. so maybe there's my thoughts on v2
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Post Post #1470  (isolation #67)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:48 pm

having read a small amount of bee movie mafia just now i think there might be a very small chance that it doesn't count for fuckall
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Post Post #1471  (isolation #68)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:50 pm

also shit you mentioned the thing at the hecking beginning of that game too
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Post Post #1472  (isolation #69)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:51 pm

...but that is a creamy-ass p-value
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Post Post #1475  (isolation #70)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:03 pm

gosh he reads pretty similar in that game to this one; a lot of asking questions, not really explaining reads at all (he pointed to a post one time but then said "this just solidifies my read"), commenting on gamestate. and, incidentally, initially scumreading tb but then townreading him at the end of the day. and also, incidentally, claiming somebody solved the game d1 at the beginning

In post 1473, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
schadd_ wrote:...but that is a creamy-ass p-value

i can do a statistically accurate test to show that post count is alignment indicative for him btw (i think it's like a p value of .002 of it not being AI)

yes i saw. creamy af
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Post Post #1507  (isolation #71)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:12 am

In post 1381, mattblackguy wrote:Schadd lies here, and says his team mate would be a bad lynch, because he's active and trying to scumhunt when he only had 7 real posts, and most of those posts like contained basic questions about the game. Really since when is 7/320 posts active and scumhunting? This is just a blatant lie.

In post 294, mattblackguy wrote:Well to me it seems like Shade is more likely to flip town than ThinkBig just because of the questions, and points that shade has been bringing up. Shade really does show a drive to scumhunt, and I don't think he would be asking these types of questions if he were scum (Although I do not really know his personality outside of this game) :
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Post Post #1508  (isolation #72)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:12 am

i reread, u guys!
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Post Post #1530  (isolation #73)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:48 am

i also promise
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Post Post #1532  (isolation #74)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:50 am

dang, i already promised
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Post Post #1545  (isolation #75)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 am

as long as we're sitting around

rc, what's the deal re: saying you're an alt? the second link in your sig says i'm not authorized
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Post Post #1551  (isolation #76)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:02 am

thanx
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Post Post #1558  (isolation #77)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:15 am

In post 1553, cassielle wrote:how do you feel about this wagon, you like where its heading? you like the folks on board? where do you think the other scum is?

the last few things read like scum giving up. town mbg cares enough to, like, talk about anything

creature noticeably absent and hasn't really commented, but he maybe hasn't been on for the good parts. grey is watching, which is fine, he does that (obv softclaiming watcher for him). everyone else is here

uh, still don't like creature. you, also. you changed today, from member of angry mob to reporter on the whole angry mob issue

mbg flips green, we weep
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