Large Normal 201 - House of Harmony - At The End(GAME OVER)

[kuror0]

huh. I'm here and will catch up later or tomorrow. Got to page 6 and got sick.

[kuror0]

ok sort of finished catching up. (form 6 to 8 i skimmed then got a bit of cancer as someone said and jumped to page 12 since my Hi post because it seems content started somewhere there, read thoroughly up to page 17 but got work to do so stopping there atm.)

I was going to give some quick thoughts but I'm not really good picking a game like this I would have too many seeded thoughts so I will just take what I think as a base and will keep up from now on to truly get my own reads.

I'm sure someone somewhere said alisae wagon was bad so could you explain why you think the ones there or the ones pushing are scum?

[kuror0]

that was as fake as it gets. plus gerry saying yeah I am town and I'm dead mod will do my flip next post right after the vc is... I think Gerry is screaming too much he is town in hopes someone believes him and I'm getting the opposite effect every time.

[kuror0]

that was as fake as it gets. plus gerry saying yeah I am town and I'm dead mod will do my flip next post right after the vc is... I think Gerry is screaming too much he is town in hopes someone believes him and I'm getting the opposite effect every time.

I'm not the one who did the shot, just went along with it. And I don't really care what affect it has on you. Especially when you've done nothing all game lol

You knew it was fake but still used the situation to try to get some sort of town look, which is scummy. You used it to look better yourself and not to try to sort others alignment. And resorting to attack the player when you couldn't come right away with a justification of the accusation is just weak play.

As someone said you did imply you were town so don't try to wash your hands.

@Alisae I do think misrepresentations are AI. confusion could come from town but more often than not intentional misreps come from scum.

He made it seem like i was saying "IM TOWN IM DEAD OMG." when i was just asing what they thought my flip was gonna be. i think it's a misunderstanding on your part and maybe his

Just to be clear here. after reading everything again I can tell you. No, it is not a misunderstanding from me. You did say you were killed and that mod was about to do the flip and you did also imply you were town. If you think something else of what I said was a misrep feel free to point it out, for now you earned those scum points.

[kuror0]

@Alisae I do think misrepresentations are AI. confusion could come from town but more often than not intentional misreps come from scum.

Can misrepresentations make someone scummy just by themselves or does someone else have to do do other things besides misrepresenting to come across as scummy?

For me it could be by itself if I feel the misrep was made intentionally. As I said there are mix ups and misreps towns do because different point of view or play style or many reasons more but if I truly think it was intentional I usually SR that slot.

[kuror0]

Shoot: self.

Hi, I'm town.

am i triggering u yet

Nope. You are making a clown of yourself. I guess some people can't handle well being caught doing something bad.

[kuror0]

that was as fake as it gets.

plus gerry saying yeah I am town and I'm dead mod will do my flip next post right after the vc is... I think Gerry is screaming too much he is town in hopes someone believes him and I'm getting the opposite effect every time.

Are you talking about Transcend's dayvig?

Yes.

I don't like the way Mick and kuror0 started reacting to gerryoat's reaction to being shot at all. I think they're intimidated by Transcend and his read on gerry.

You got something completely wrong here. I thought I was clear enough on my point. And I have never ever been intimidated by Transcend plays. I'm wary of him because his posts seems good but his style doesn't suit any game I've seen him being town, still not something I would chase at this point at all. He is sort of town read so far but has nothing to do with my read on gerry and if I town read someone that doesn't mean I will trust their reads or sheep them if I have a different read, specially D1.

[kuror0]

That answers how you feel about Transcend, how about your reaction to gerry's reaction to being shot. Also, thanks for the shade.

Are you even reading? already explained my thoughts about that as thoroughly as I could. Something wasn't clear? and what shade?

[kuror0]

Also,

...and if I town read someone that doesn't mean I will trust their reads or sheep them if I have a different read, specially D1.

Never asked for your opinion on how I make reads and I never said the way you read is wrong. This is throwing shade.

This is called a difference of play style. It doesn't makes me or you more or less in any way since it is nowhere an AI trait as it varies a lot from player to player and even the same player with the same alignment can take a different course of action if he doesn't fully know or trust or w/e his TR's reads.

And you were sort of linking Transcend TR on garry and my read on transcend and my SR on garry all together or at least that's how I perceived it so I did the clarification about my style.

That answers how you feel about Transcend, how about your reaction to gerry's reaction to being shot. Also, thanks for the shade.

Are you even reading? already explained my thoughts about that as thoroughly as I could. Something wasn't clear? and what shade?

I made a comment regarding your reaction and how it is completely fake given that you also thought it was obviously fake and the context in which it occurred was also quite revealing of it being fake. Are you even reading?

ah so you think my reaction was faked. I thought tr shoot was pretty fake but nothing to work on that alone, I felt garry reaction was also quite fake but what I disliked was the opportunity to try to look town without doing anything out of it. I said it explicitly.

[kuror0]

This is called a difference of play style. It doesn't makes me or you more or less in any way since it is nowhere an AI trait as it varies a lot from player to player and even the same player with the same alignment can take a different course of action if he doesn't fully know or trust or w/e his TR's reads.

And you were sort of linking Transcend TR on garry and my read on transcend and my SR on garry all together or at least that's how I perceived it so I did the clarification about my style.

The first portion of this is filler.

He is sort of town read so far but has nothing to do with my read on gerry

and if I town read someone that doesn't mean I will trust their reads or sheep them if I have a different read, specially D1.

Also, the first portion of that quote is clarifying on how you are not intimidated by Transcend. I understand that. The bolded section, however, is an attempt to discredit me. I'm not expecting you to play like I do and you were not provoked to say this.

ah so you think my reaction was faked. I thought tr shoot was pretty fake but nothing to work on that alone, I felt garry reaction was also quite fake but what I disliked was the opportunity to try to look town without doing anything out of it. I said it explicitly.

Fake reaction for a fake shot, sounds good to me and nothing worth extracting a paragraph like yours from except to try and throw suspicion on someone.

done with you. You say I throw shade on you, I make the clarification why I think it is nothing AI so no shade throwing and no harm intention and was just getting things straight but you say it is filler so feel free to push for me or w/e the fuck you want it is annoying to talk to someone who is not interested in my answers but just wants to get reasons to scum read me.

[kuror0]

Sorry got sick and haven't been available. Will try to catch up today.

[kuror0]

ok finished catching up and got some thoughts.

Could it possibly be so easy as Mick/Manuel/Ram?

Then add me to that list cause I think along the same lines toward gerry. The player attitude is not my cup of tea but w/e we are all different and that's ok what I SR most is that he has been only taunting everyone who SRs him and nothing else. I see no single effort to discern if the slot is town or scum it is like if you SR gerry he will instantly SR back.

Transcend's posts, at least most of them look really town if not for the voice on my head that screams this is not the town transcend I've seen play he would be firmly a town read.

Alisae did ask a lot of questions but I think they were all leading nowhere so it just appears as being participative and helpful while providing nothing and I'm wary of this cause I've seen a couple of scums trying to pull that.

Pep and Ram I feel the potential of a SvT but not sure which is which. I'm not even sure if it is SvT or just 2 towns tunneling each other or what so yeah... null till I see other interactions.

Those are my most prominent reads still not so sure about all the rest but just felt like letting you guys know.

P-edit: holy crap I was up to date with post 981 so this post ignores everything that came after that.

[kuror0]

shameless prodge. I will catch up tonight or probably tomorrow cuz I'm way too tired

[kuror0]

page 73 and catching up. Sorry about that but work was hell today and you guys posted a lot since the weekend.

[kuror0]

ok finally finished catching up. But for now I will just VOTE: clumsy

Many players are catching so we should have a nice end of the day, I have to sleep but tomorrow will post my list and ideas.

[kuror0]

ok not sure where to start from all this. So I will just go from my last post.

Clumsy claim seems real but I agree with iron about his partner confirming. You say 2 shots means they can take both masons. I say they have no way to coordinate the attack and risk of hitting the same target. Plus having 2 confirmed towns around would maybe help to take a decision towards the lynch.

On the same topic I think it is safe to assume there is indeed 2 mafia teams and not a mafia and a SK or some other set up. Too many people assuming 2 mafia teams from the start makes me believe the scum pm sort of indicates another mafia team, like someone suggested red mafia and blue mafia or something like that. I still don't completely discard the chance of a sk but I feel pretty confident 2 mafia teams are around.

Which leads me to the next thing and is gerry's best efforts to scumpost.

ok finally finished catching up. But for now I will just VOTE: clumsy

Many players are catching so we should have a nice end of the day, I have to sleep but tomorrow will post my list and ideas.

Especially after saying that he scumread me, he saw me just vote Clumsy. and the wording of it seems a bit weird. He's more worried about ending the day then finding maf

Multiball with 2 scumteams on my mind and I don't know what else lurking around means I don't give a fuck if I vote along a scumread of mine specially D1. Second while I had a scumlean on clumsy at the time the whole idea of the vote wasn't to hammer or end the day, was to check waters and reactions. (I know transcend said it was hammer but I actually tend to vote count before I vote to avoid effing things up so I knew he wasn't that close to hammer.) That's why I first talk about the returning players and say nice end of the day, it is not about hammering and finishing right away it is about having 5 days left and the thread won't be dominated by the same 3 players and the same 2 shitposters. Iron or Fro complained about the resistance on clumsy wagon so I figured a quick unbased vote like that should start some sort of discussion. I was hoping someone would use it to jump off the wagon or something that would shed light.

Those suggesting me as a wagon or any other of the low post-low interaction slots at this point and how things rolled this day instantly got scumpoints on my book. I will try to stay active and discuss as much as I can now and if it leads to a lynch on me that's fine because I will try to get as much as possible but up to this point you will get shit info from my flip so the suggestion is not a town motivated idea.

ehh that's all I can remember for now so

Town
Iron, Fro
manuel: due to many reads going along my train of thought.


Scum
alisae and gerry
pepcho clumsy(now safe)

leaning scum
transcend: Erratic strong first part then only shitposting plus all the confirmation him and gerry has been pulling on each other makes me doubt.
Pine: meta + gut but I haven't seen all that much of him to trully follow those at this point. Plus he is subpar lynch compared to alisae.

everybody else full null due to lack of participation or too erratic to be judged, plus me being only catching up to this point makes it harder to get accurate reads.

VOTE: Alisae

[kuror0]

refer to a previous post of mine. The same reasons remain if it is not around there and I forgot to post my thoughts about you I will gladly make one in the night when I get free time.

[kuror0]

ok finished catching up and got some thoughts.

Could it possibly be so easy as Mick/Manuel/Ram?

Then add me to that list cause I think along the same lines toward gerry. The player attitude is not my cup of tea but w/e we are all different and that's ok what I SR most is that he has been only taunting everyone who SRs him and nothing else. I see no single effort to discern if the slot is town or scum it is like if you SR gerry he will instantly SR back.

Transcend's posts, at least most of them look really town if not for the voice on my head that screams this is not the town transcend I've seen play he would be firmly a town read.

Alisae did ask a lot of questions but I think they were all leading nowhere so it just appears as being participative and helpful while providing nothing and I'm wary of this cause I've seen a couple of scums trying to pull that.

Pep and Ram I feel the potential of a SvT but not sure which is which. I'm not even sure if it is SvT or just 2 towns tunneling each other or what so yeah... null till I see other interactions.

Those are my most prominent reads still not so sure about all the rest but just felt like letting you guys know.

P-edit: holy crap I was up to date with post 981 so this post ignores everything that came after that.

Sadly I mentioned you but on the surface. The fact still holds 1250 posts later. You look participative and ask a lot of questions but they aim at nothing all, they are all dead ends or pointless. It is just to make you look like helping when you don't. Your constant sheeping attitude, the amount of shitposting that swamp the thread. The gracious attitude towards those that had been leading the wagons to get on their good side.

Those are the things at the top of my mind. out for lunch.

[kuror0]

I may actually write a Yoshi case when I get home lmao.

So you are scumreading yoshi or just sheeping?

[kuror0]

Can't read for your life or just playing to be blind gerry?

Fro9 did say it was a very hypothetical case which he heavily doubted so you don't have to lose your shit over it. And I already explained why did I vote along you or any other scum read at this stage.

[kuror0]

Can't read for your life or just playing to be blind gerry?

o ok i missed that post. still think it was a bad post at the time

Well let's use the lil time I got. Which post exactly you mean it was bad and why?

[kuror0]

ok finally finished catching up. But for now I will just VOTE: clumsy

Many players are catching so we should have a nice end of the day, I have to sleep but tomorrow will post my list and ideas.

@kur this one

ok. Now why you used the remark "still think it was a bad post at the time". Does it mean you still consider a bad post or does it mean you had it as bad but the explanation I laid recently made you reconsider about it or what? That remark alone is a lilttle empty and unhelpful so let's see where are you coming from help me get a better read on you if you think I'm misguided on SRing you.

[kuror0]

SO fmpov i'm thinking like "This guy says i'm maf in all his posts and then suddenly votes the biggest wagon just to end the day, after I just voted and I was his only scumread" if I did that, would you not find that weird?

Sure on that hypothetical scenario would be weird but taking into account you are completely aware of the multiball and you misunderstood my phrase when I said nice end of the day not anything close to let's end the day. And to be fair I didn't had much of a scum read on the slot previous to clumsy (I forgot the name) I knew it was a fight between him and pep but couldn't sort them correctly because they were way too deep going for each others throat which made me think there was a high chance for SvT but couldn't sort them at that point however I did get scum vibes from clumsy when he replaced in.

p-edit: ima just quote what I'm answering since 20 post happened in a second (quotes the gerry thing on the top of the post).

[kuror0]

I'm not sure about yoshi my read there is not worthy. He has been pushing me on the side like a scum would but then I've seen so little of him I feel it is the same rushed judgment I'm trying to avoid on other slots. Plus I really think this is your team effort to derail your lynch. I mean your wagon just started growing and derailed fast as fuck towards yoshi with 1 simple post which was:

ribbit. Croak.

I think if people who are SRing me should look towards Yoshi, I think if you're SRing me he might look a bit worse.

pedit: stawwp, at the rate we're going we might as well just have Clums tell us. Let's remember scum have daytalk.

Where you basically say that you are aware you have been playing scummy but yoshi looks worse and then BANG people jumping on yoshi. (When I get time I will check who moved from your wagon to yoshi just for fun and giggles) You were aware you were acting scummy but you didn't stop those actions so it was intentional and not town motivated all your actions.

p-edit:
Side note I still like more a clumsy's partner claim. I don't want to have things on the loose and tbh I see little drawbacks from the claim. You are scared you are gonna get killed? think you 2 will be the first targets to be protected and that mafia has to deal with the uncertain of that or that both shot the same one etc I don't understand why so scared to claim mason partner when 1 was outed.

more p-edit: Some people say it is simple to find clumsy partner looking at the iso, that's great I must admit I haven't checked and at this point got no clue who the partner is, but then again if it is so easy to find or a couple of players already found it why hide? Probably some scum already did, so?

[kuror0]

Is it my imagination or is this going to tun in a role fish fest? Why don't we just lynch Alisae? I've seen many people either scumread or doubt her alignment yet no one wants to go there. Talk about wagon resistance.

[kuror0]

I catched up and there's nothing I want to respond to besides the following:
Trans, if you scumread my slot you should be scumreading Yoshi's slot because Yoshi has been acting a lot like I have this game but only with a lowered amount of shitposting.

Kuror0, it's not that I'm aware of how scummy I am, it's moreso "Hey, if you scumread my slot, look at the Yoshi slot, because they have been doing a lot of things that you scumread me for doing" Period.
Also, this is the 4th time that you have been asked: What is your read on Yoshi. If you don't answer I will powerwagon you after Yoshi. Becuase qutie frankly to me you are coming off as avoiding the question, and I am tired of it. Not to mention I asked you 3 times now, and Frogger once. You never answered the question.

Garry I'm going to look for that has been giving me this wierd feelings about you and going to do that Yoshi case in a bit.
pedit: 12 posts while I was writing this one. WOW. Just wow.

First off I was totally expecting this. Scum play so hard, yet your partners protect you pushing another wagon and town is too dumb to notice. So anyways that why I asked if you were SR yoshi or just sheeping. You said SR and that you would make a case. Now, that wasn't more than 5 pages apart since I quoted you saying "If you scumread me you should look at yoshi he is worst." which means if you scumread him you knew your actions were scummy by the EXACT same reasons you scum read him yet you were still doing them on purpose which means scum motivation.

If you don't know my stance towards yoshi and as garry can't read for shit then that's not my problem. Already said what I think about him but why I was not pushing harder for him. I have a way stronger read and I know I caught scum on you so it is a matter of time for people to realize it even if yoshi lynch comes first. I have no problem lynching him first then you but I would rather lynch you first because it is my read and I feel confident about it.

[kuror0]

same thing you did with me. Multiball quick using the same excuse over and over when you are aware of it

[kuror0]

quit ffs.Can't post and play lol at the same time so be back in 30 or so.

[kuror0]

Oh? So is it scummy to direct the pressure you're giving me onto someone else? You're basicly giving me the spotlight in your eyes so I figured wynaut. Hell cause I had a wagon on me, I had the spotlight, so I used that as an advantage to attempt to start a push on my own scumread.

Because it's not my obligation to change my behavoir to avoid people form percieving me from looking scummy. I don't care if you think I am town if you think I am scum, it is my duty to lynch scum and explain why they are scum. Not prove why I am town.

Also sorry I just missed the post where you gave the Yoshi read. And let's just say I don't buy a single word of it. Because to me it looks like you're just being lazy instead of attempting to give me a read on him (which is what I asked for) and why. If you haven't seen much from him, then you should ISO dive him.
Not to mention you use the term team to describe how my lynch got derailed, and that right there is a pre-flip association.

pedit: FOR FUCK SAKE 9 MORE POST AND I'M GETTING TO IT GARRY!

Please I don't remember you ever calling yoshi scum before that point. (If you did provide me some proof so I will shut up) You used him as scape goat and your wagon quickly changed direction all was way too coordinated and convenient. Plus you said he is scum because he is acting like you do, so...

Accusing of pre flip association when I've never mentioned 1 player and before you jump on that I'm not as retarded to believe everyone voting yoshi would be on your scumteam. Btw hypocrisy again to fit your needs because you sasid you would push hard for me after yoshi flips scum. Isn't that exactly pre flip association?

Tired of dealing with you so I will just wait till the rest of the town to pick it up eventually.

[kuror0]

are you guys going in circles? Cuz it feels like gerry just wants to deflect and and you guys try to show the point and he deflects all over again. Why do I feel familiar with that... ah right alisae is doing the same. Hopefully we can agree on some lynch before page 150 and those who were catching up eventually finish.

[kuror0]

cmon... The poor replacement will have to take 110 pages on D1. Can't we just agree on someone?

[kuror0]

Will do it probably but want to use the time for a couple of things more. I want to hear from PV, Cabd, Elena and a couple more I can't remember plus:

Seriously considering replacing out. It isn't lack of interest or reads, but the pace. I'll tough it out through D1, and see if I can handle it D2.

You skimmed but how are your reads at this point. If you think about replacing out maybe leaving your thoughts and reads before doing so could help us.

[kuror0]

Well manny I like your scum team But I had in mind fro9, alisae and mby gerry or not sure yet. But seriously fuck this much spam.

VOTE: Yoshi

that's L-1 let him claim if any and finish this day.

[kuror0]

Let him finish his shit and come do his claim. We let clumsy off the hook for a mason claim and now you wanna lolhammer because can't hold it in your pants for a lil bit. We are not on a rushed deadline and he said he is reading so let's just wait. if the claim is not something we believe we hammer and that's it. I see no point in all the fuzz and rush to hammer now that he started to claim a strong pr. His attitude is shit his claim so far was weak and I doubt his claim is any good but if there is a chance he is town and a PR we shouldn't lynch before he makes his full claim.

[kuror0]

Weird as fuck role honestly. But if in this set up it was specified something like not normal roles were possible I could believe in it. If the mod said it will be a full normal game then I don't believe it and I'm up for his lynch. Now looking for a way to confirm any of the 2 options.

[kuror0]

Why? Personally, I found it fishy that people kept assuming 2 scumteams, but I never materialized that superstition into anything.

I said it in some of my post. Too many people were sure there were 2 maf teams which made me believe scum had some sort of indication on their roles that there was another maf team.

[kuror0]

Multiball is a term for setups that have more than one informed minority. Serial Killers and other one-person groups do not count; the term is specific to scum groups of multiple players.
Multiball setups introduce the necessity for the scum to themselves scum-hunt for opposing factions, which can make it easier for them to appear town, but can also make them appear suspicious if a late-game votecount analysis points to them only catching scum of a single faction. Then can also of course kill each other, which tends to help town and is often used for balance.
Scumgroups in a multiball game don't necessarily have to be the same size; groups with fewer members tend to be balanced with more power.

Sorry for being an stupid ignorant and not knowing this. I was wasting time thinking on things like SK and other stuff. Thx for the info.

[kuror0]

I'm not scumreading people for saying there are 2 maf teams I just assumed it was a confirmation from so many people saying it which would include towns and scum so it was a pointless clue but was a confirmation of 2 scum parties for me being an ignorant on this type of set up. I said it in your game I'm not good with set up speculation and role use so I went safe and if there is a chance a role like that could happen then I believe it if it was out of the rules or somewhere a clause that said it couldn't happen then I wouldn't believe simple cuz I'm simple like that.

VOTE: Alisa

My strongest scum read the best lynch I can think of because I saw people react on the wagon forming. I counted roughly 5 people hard scumreading her 2 who had her as town then scum then again town stance. and a couple others can't remember or wasn't in the game actively. Don't take my word on this but I was sure fro9 had her as scum and mby even voted her but when the wagon grew he derailed to focus on yoshi and then on his last list he wasn't even on his scum suspects that's why I paired them together on a recent post. (Again take this with a heavy grain of salt because I can't remember properly and I'm tired so I can't bother to check right now but will do tomorrow)

[kuror0]

I can't read kuror either. Anyone have any thoughts there?

I SR him

haven't said why. not even once. Or did I miss it?

[kuror0]

I can't read kuror either. Anyone have any thoughts there?

I SR him

haven't said why. not even once. Or did I miss it?

I believe I have, but I can say why I do again.
I mostly SR you because I don't feel as if you're putting all of your effort into pushing me.
Like I think your SR on me is fabricated.
Also I don't remember if you saw 2751

I did put my effort showing why I consider you scum posted my reason and analyzed how your wagon quickly derailed for some stupid reason quite fast. I did saw your post but it is stupid to think I have to "make you look scummier" it is not my job to make you look worse it is my job to point out to others why I scumread you, not forge things or misrep you to look worse. It is also stupid to 1v1 you. I engaged enough to be as sure as I can that you are scum and there is no gain for me to tunnel you harder or keep hitting a wall when others don't want to go for you. I will continue to push for your lynch as much as I can but that's all I can do while I'm sure you got partners so a wagon growing on me is way easier but like I am sure you are scum I'm using the time instead of tunneling getting other reads and looking for connections.

[kuror0]

On a side note I think going for a jaack lynch is stupid it would give too lil info compared to other slots. I personally don't have a serious jaack read but I'm sure most players shouold have stronger scumreads on more active players, as someone pointed out going for lurkers on D1 is bad, someone said we are quite ahead for D1 but we don't have any flip yet so imo it is better to have flips that can reveal more info on a large amount of players and not just a lurky slot.

@Fro9 why do you ask so many people how they read me? I'm the only slot you have a hard time reading? If not what makes me special, you sort of scum read me but not sure so want help to get the reasons? or am I a full null for you and want to get an idea to sort me? or what's happening?

[kuror0]

But a 1v1 is fun ;~;
I wasn't asking you to misrep me or forge me. Hell that makes you look worse if you do decide to do that. What do you think Frogger has been doing? He's been trying to convince people to hop on wagons this whole time on people he wants lynched. I don't see that coming from you.
And who said the gain was for you? By tunneling me and attempting to make me look worse, you're convincing the town that I am scum. Are you not?

If you didn't ask to forge or misrep why use "make me look scummier"? I did point out what I found scummy on your slot and even you said you used it to throw the attention to yoshi (which means you did feel the pressure), so why you weren't convinced I put effort if you just redirected my effort to other slot so easily, just one word and a couple of people instantly moved there from you.

I tunnel but on my own way. I keep pushing for my read and try to follow it as much as I can but it is dumb if I just ignore everything else, it is not like you are the only scum alive at this point to zero on you, just not my style of game.

[kuror0]

@Alisae I already said it. I had enough interaction to be as sure as I can get that you are scum and you were just deflecting so I couldn't get any more answers which I also did said openly. The thing is I know I'm not good convincing other players to follow my reads I just can't provoke the right emotion to make them sheep me(either it is my english, the way I word things, the way I compose what I write, you name it multiple flaws there) so I'm ok with just leaving those things out and at some point someone will remember and tie the dots and the lynch happens. Doesn't matter if I'm dead or alive as long as I managed to get those things out it will be on the other towns mind and at some point they will realize if my read was right and I'm ok with that. Also about that quote you posted, at that point all the focus had moved from you which means at that point you had feel my pressure(or spotlight like you called it) so it makes no sense that you now say I wasn't making an effort (you and others have noticed it) so it is a contradiction.

@Fro9 About clumsy and Yoshi votes. On clumsy I already explained it was a bit to make things move and a bit more to spark discussion. I had clumsy on a scum lean but not strong enough to be sold on his lynch but I was sure my vote wasn't that close to hammer to result in a quicklynch, also my vote wasn't explained at all after my catch up so I was expecting people to jump off that wagon as it was the perfect time after my vote if he was scum with someone soft bussing him. About yoshi my read on him was not that clear. I got frustrated after my initial trade with him because I felt he was just looking for reasons to scum read me, so I started ignoring him (and he didn't post much after that if I remember correctly) my read on him is a very weak scumlean but I'm kind of fed up with this day and no flips to re asses the reads and he wasn't on the list of players I would be against a lynch today so I gave up on the alisae lynch for today. Now that he is off it is my time to repeat hey let's lynch alisae. Walls with love from me. I have a hard time reading so many lil posts with no content so we must all be equally unhappy.

[kuror0]

kuror, you're starting to flail a little

How so? (tbh I don't even know the exact meaning of the word but I think I got an idea) Could be a nice time to sort you cuz I don't have you anywhere at this point.

[kuror0]

ok finished catching up and got some thoughts.

Could it possibly be so easy as Mick/Manuel/Ram?

Then add me to that list cause I think along the same lines toward gerry. The player attitude is not my cup of tea but w/e we are all different and that's ok what I SR most is that he has been only taunting everyone who SRs him and nothing else. I see no single effort to discern if the slot is town or scum it is like if you SR gerry he will instantly SR back.

Transcend's posts, at least most of them look really town if not for the voice on my head that screams this is not the town transcend I've seen play he would be firmly a town read.

Alisae did ask a lot of questions but I think they were all leading nowhere so it just appears as being participative and helpful while providing nothing and I'm wary of this cause I've seen a couple of scums trying to pull that.

Pep and Ram I feel the potential of a SvT but not sure which is which. I'm not even sure if it is SvT or just 2 towns tunneling each other or what so yeah... null till I see other interactions.

Those are my most prominent reads still not so sure about all the rest but just felt like letting you guys know.

P-edit: holy crap I was up to date with post 981 so this post ignores everything that came after that.

Sadly I mentioned you but on the surface. The fact still holds 1250 posts later. You look participative and ask a lot of questions but they aim at nothing all, they are all dead ends or pointless. It is just to make you look like helping when you don't. Your constant sheeping attitude, the amount of shitposting that swamp the thread. The gracious attitude towards those that had been leading the wagons to get on their good side.

Those are the things at the top of my mind. out for lunch.

Just saying all this things still hold true about alisae.

Now I'm off to sleep so leave anything you want from me around and I will address it tomorrow.

[kuror0]

You know what, screw it I'll just analyze this entire 36th vote count. My input is in turquoise.

Alisae -

[1] kuror0

I don't inherently disagree with this vote, but does kuror0 think that Alisae of all people is the best lynch in the game?

Yes. I do. Already said why. I'm as close as sure that he is scum. In the middle of all the shit post we can get a great idea of interactions because he has sheeped almost every wagon available yet his attitude was slightly different on some. The disbanding on his wagon is also telling etc. It is the flip of the possible ones that would lay most info imo.

@Pine Which was the last post you read and why transcend is still your strongest townread?

[kuror0]

shooting in 3 is still better.

who are good vig shots we can all agree on

Pine, Pep, kuror/cabd would be my choices.

Ok I'm just catching up and I'm at page 152. But this. You said you didn't scumread me you had me as full null and wanted to take hints to make an idea. now suddenly you put me on the same list with 3 of your scum reads?? Suddenly you made your mind and SR me or what's with the leap on the read?

imba terribad excuse.

continuing my catch up

[kuror0]

About the list for the vig shot I don't want to meddle with it. Plus my scum reads are not that popular so they won't get on the list anyways and you should know them by this point.

[kuror0]

On a side note this proves the mod wants to get to be the 1st place in longest 1st day on mafia.

Waiting for bumping your thread to become socially acceptable.

Yes, my younglings.

I plead the fifth!

[kuror0]

shooting in 3 is still better.

who are good vig shots we can all agree on

Pine, Pep, kuror/cabd would be my choices.

Ok I'm just catching up and I'm at page 152. But this. You said you didn't scumread me you had me as full null and wanted to take hints to make an idea. now suddenly you put me on the same list with 3 of your scum reads?? Suddenly you made your mind and SR me or what's with the leap on the read?

imba terribad excuse.

continuing my catch up

Gee, let's see why.

My strongest scum reads are Pine, Yoshi, Jaack, and Pep. Three of them are eliminated from the shoot conversation. So I have to pick two more. You, cabd, dreal are next in line in my scum reads.

So you did move me from full null to slightly scum as I'm in the bottom half of the player list and along drealmz and cabd which you have spoken suspicions. So what made you SR me and who said it? or you got there on your own?

[kuror0]

so according to your words you can't sort me properly at this point, so the best you decide to do is lynch? I totally called for a terribad reason.
You choose me over other impossible to read targets with 0 arguments. Which lead me to believe like my paranoia indicated early when you asked a lot of people how they were reading me, that you just wanted to get a reason to scumread and push for me. Noted.

I can now get on fro9 wagon. I was hesitant because my only link to him as scum was alisae connection and would be too dumb to go for him before her flip, but with his reaction to pressure and this read "develop" I now got enough reason to scumread him by himself.

[kuror0]

that you should have enough things to read me either leaning scum or leaning town at least yet I'm still null. But miraculously other read of yours are way more developed with little to no content, that's my real issue.

I could understand someone scumreading me or soft town reading me but other reads of yours are with no input from them which is what made me doubt about your progression and the convenience on certain reads.

[kuror0]

Ok weekend starts for me so I don't know if I will be around a lot or not at all, but I want to make my last effort to get a scum read.
VOTE: fro9

I think pep may flip scum (his play has been bad and scummy and stubborn but that also makes me doubt a scum would play this carelessly) but at the end not as sure compared to ali or fro. I will try to be around and would like to end the day soon but after the weekend to be able to asses everything and say some words before night.

@fro9 If you are careless I'm not going to tell you how to play scum, I catched some holes and I'm not revealing them until either you flip and confirm my suspicions or I feel I'm about to die so I let my thoughts out.

p-edit: you forgot about me alisae :<

[kuror0]

ok 3 kills. which one was the vig shot? probably Pine?

p-edit: nvm

Pine was shot by jaack I guess white scumteam killed cloud which leads me to believe one of the people cloud was pushing IS white scum which leads me to fro9 being a strong scum suspect for today.

p-edit: I bring NKA back on the table.

[kuror0]

I know it doesn't necessarily mean that. I never said omg fro9 100% killed cloud. I'm just saying hey there is a chance. just 1 more factor to add, not the defining factor.

[kuror0]

Not bad in a scummy way, just bad in a bad way.

Agree with this but I have suspected him before this night so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[kuror0]

can you be a little more obvious with you "this is the group of people I want to lynch today" list? it's not obvious enough for the crowd around here and I don't want to go through the effort of pushing anyone today either

I don't really want to lynch you or PV today, but i haven't poe'd you two from being a black maf.

Is this a scumslip? Why listed only black maf? You know who are the white maf then?

[kuror0]

YAY KUROR KNOWS HOW TO PLAY MAFIA

obviously I don't. What are your reads so far drealmz?

[kuror0]

Because I've been framed by it and I've used it before and i was dead wrong. Sometimes, it's accurate. Sometimes it's not. Using it to base your reads is not an accurate technique imo. Pure scumhunting is significantly better.

Pedit: yeah totes a scum slip

That whole analysis was analyzing the black team.

There's no absolute way i can analyze the white team except via NKA which i just got done explaining isn't reliable. I need flips.

yeah ok but at this point wanting flips to hunt only for 1 team is kind of lame look at the big picture and tell me who are your main suspects at this point.

[kuror0]

clumsy is confirmed.
Jaack is confirmed because he probably won't get past N3 and if 3 players die on that night I would hard suspect him. (SK HAS to kill every night right?)
yoshi is pretty much conf town for me with the knowledge I have so far.

transcend has phases some good some bad can't really make my mind on him.
you seem specially inactive for the first part but as stubborn as always pretty much on the same undefined zone as transc.

alisae is scum.
fro9 is scum. If alisae filpped scum first then fro9 is definetely scum.
PV getting so many strong town reads on that slot with about 15 semi content posts on the start of D1 and nothing else strikes me as weird af.

those are the ones on the top of my head right now.

[kuror0]

Why is Alisae scum and do you agree with me that should he flip scum he will be white?

Due to Alisae sheeping everything that moves I'm not sure, it would be less likely but I wouldn't really rule it completely out. She sheeped Cloud at some point on fro9 but at that moment it was a weak push and no need to commit much, the wagon didn't grow that much so can't really tell if the disband from him on that wagon was just convenience or trying to avoid a partner lynch or if the initial join was a scum group effort to lynch a target. So yeah there are still many unknown things so I wouldn't rule out options at this point.

About why Alisae is scum.... really?

[kuror0]

How does everything point to town Gerry?

What exactly does point at town gerry?

[kuror0]

How does everything point to town Gerry?

What exactly does point at town gerry?

No idea. I was asking transcend because he said everything is pointing to town Gerry

not asking you, asking transcend something more precise that I'm interested.

[kuror0]

Is Alisae sheeping everything alignment indicative for you? I've played with him before. He's a sheep as town. I'm sure he's one as scum. I don't think Alisae being a sheep is alignment indicative.

It is one factor. When I add all the things I've noticed together and the interactions I had, I'm as certain as I could that he is scum. I mentioned his sheeping because that makes it a little harder to discern if it was a wagon he was interested in mislynching or just random sheepping. If the one he was sheeping was a scum partner or some random player. And that's why I doesn't rule out he could be white or black mafia. I'm just sure he is mafia.

[kuror0]

Sheeping itself isn't alignment indicative. It's the motivation for finding scum and Alisae was certainly motivated.

How so? We strongly disagree here so enlighten me. Maybe I miss something.

[kuror0]

How so? We strongly disagree here so enlighten me. Maybe I miss something.

Sleeping itself isn't alignment indicative. I'm not sure how I can tell you otherwise.

As far as scumhunting, Alisae actually suspected Yoshi first. That wasn't a sheep. I was just the one who built the case. Alisae also had town motivation in tying myself and Jaack together, even though it was wrong. Alisae has put pressure on people and his reads have evolved throughout the game. Even on yourself, Alisae's reads have evolved (and the pressure he put on you is also scumhunting) I'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head.

Again beating the deadhorse about "skeeting isn't alignment indicative" as if I were scumreading her just for being a sheep.

As far as scumhunting. I call those reasons BS. Yeah because scums never scumhunt or look like they are doing it. Scums never change their reads either. pressure a target until it derails(and you call it scumhunt) or it becomes a mislynch. "town motivation in tying myself and jaack together", how the fuck would I or even better how could YOU know if it has town motivations or not?

Associations can come from town but also can come from scums trying to line up lynchs or derail attention or w/e. Scums as town modify their reads whether progression or to suit their needs it does happen on both alignments. Towns do mislynches same as scum. So the bottom line is the way I see the game an action by itself doesn't tell the alignment but if you put enough pieces together you should be able to determine if all the actions someone made were looking for the benefit of town or just pretended to be for the benefit of it and that's why I scum read Alissae everything I have read from him since early game looks like a big charade to look like he is helping actively to solve the game when in reality it is just making noise and trying to look good.

Lunch time so bbl.

[kuror0]

Ok just noob question here but I doubt it will be this easy. Due to the action order resolution wouldn't neighborizing be after the kills? Or does the kill always go last? If the neighborizer dies does gerry still have the PT for himself or is it closed and just in the rare case yoshi happened to check gerry last night would the resolution go first neighborized then pt cop check or first the check then the neighbor? It is mostly to gather game knowledge for future games and in the rare case gerry fucked up.

[kuror0]

The question still stands, why does framing YOU on night1 become so important for a single scumteam in a multiball game?

Yourself, Gerry, and kuror have all decided that I'm scum because of the cloud kill, and several others were already suspicious of me. It's the easiest way to build up a lynch against me, regardless from that scum team's POV if I am town or other scum.

So why you assumed they were framing a town!me is beyond me, unless you know I'm town and you are other scum.

I agree with your general idea but as I pointed out before I had a scum read on you before the night. And to counter your framing idea I have seen scum kill his main pusher to clear himself. Wrold is crazy like that. Anyways if I scumread you it has so little to do with cloud's death that we can ignore it.

p-edit: this post ignores everything that came after my last post. you guys type too fast and I have split focus.

[kuror0]

from the neighborizer wiki: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighborizer

A Neighborizer without any Neighbors at the start of the game is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

Any players added to a Neighborhood are added at the start of the next day, regardless of whether the Neighborizer lives or not

, and their Role Name is not changed.

thx for the clarification.

[kuror0]

Ima just try to be productive on work the last hour while I wait for yoshi to tell his results. With a neighborizer dead N1 and the 2 masons out I will think anyone with a PT is scum anyone without a PT is town simple as that.

p-edit: once again this post ignores everything after my last post. I have work to finish so can't spend more time now.

[kuror0]

as hard as it is for me I do think the chances garry is town is way higher than I initially thought. No CC about neighbor means he was the one targeted which means. a) he is town b)scum team shenanigans to clear both from yoshi. Taking everything into account the A option is way more likely. So I'm not joining garry's wagon today. maybe we could check somewhere else.

yoshi is clear. (and about his target choice I might have done the same thing. too much risk for me but I wasn't the one targeting so I believe him. plus this slot is bound to flip at some point so it is useless to chase him)
drealmz is clear.
gerry is clear for now.
clumsy is clear.
jaack is also clear.

that leaves 8 slots left for those of us who are town, of those probably 4>3 are scum so it is not such a bad chance. So let those guys alone and re evaluate your reads on the remaining players, let's see what we can get. Those with claims made can be re checked on later days and will be easier to sort those telling the truth from those who aren't so let's try to get a clearer reads on the other players.

Of the remaining lot the ones who raise more suspicion to me are: Alisae > PV, Elena > transc. I need to re check the ones replacing because I can't even remember who replaced who but zach initial catch up really striked me as town. That's it from me for now.

p-edit: this post was made ignoring everything that came after post 4602.
p-edit 2: guys stahp

[kuror0]

a) he is town b)scum team shenanigans to clear both from yoshi.

Why did you forget option c, that he could be other scum from cloudy?

it is considered in option B. That's why it is called scum team shenanigans. I did consider that when I said it is more probable that he is town. Did they really want to try to get a cover from the PT cop on D1. Possible but unlikely on my books, so I do think he is more likely town. What would ruin my line of thought is the chance that cloud was one team and gerry the other scum team still I would check other slots first before going back to gerry at this time.

[kuror0]

Umm Kuror0 I don't think Zach got a chance to CC the neighbor claim.
Not to mention I don't remember if Elena said anything about it either.

Well no point in arguing over that possibility if there is a CC on neighborizing today then it is clear gerry is scum, simple and that's why I don't argue over that possibility.

[kuror0]

now that I catched up I realize my 2 previous posts have been discussed <.<

First as fro9 pointed if I were scum partner with cloud why I would try to stop any CC? Then Alisae says: "cuz he know no CC exists." Hurr durr scum kuro trying to stop a CC that he knows doesn't exist. Scum kuro must be a fucking genius on doing pointless stuff.

Now that you are into shade throwing enlighten me how could scum kuro get a reward out of that. Because honestly I don't see the point in it.

[kuror0]

And there we have Alisae. Always trying to look like scumhunting or helping but not really doing it. If you don't think scum kuro had a reward for doing X that means you don't really care if the slot is scum or not, you just brought something up with no objective, once again another way for you to look busy and throw shade at the same time. You are just throwing things in the air letting others do the work and then stealing part of the credit. but I'm sure you will eventually be lynched and flip scum so 1 slot less I have to sort out.

[kuror0]

@Mod:

PereV unvoted last page. I thought people were reaction testing so I didn't mention it. I wasn't expecting a Mod Reaction test!!

Let me look through those games Gerry. I'm not gonna lie, I was moving you down on my slots, but looking around a bit I'm having a bit of pause here. I'm starting to think this isn't the correct lynch.

In the meantime, everyone else, particularly Kuror0: I modded a game with Drealmerz where he was town. His posting doesn't seem quite the same to me. Check it out for a little bit of homework? It's nowhere near the length of this one.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

Lol thanks, I'm just blind.

I did mention something about drealmz before yoshi cleared him. Still let me finish catching up and will look into this.

[kuror0]

oh I was on the last page of my catch up. Also I was on that game too and I did hard town read him from the beginning despite popular opinion. While I agree his game is not the same I had found similar patterns which eased me on him. I was leaning scum on him due to meta early in the game, I'm sure if someone puts effort they will find it somewhere on my iso. I was hesitant with him but no real reason or hard gut to suspect me and after yoshi said he didn't had PT access I'm fine thinking he is town.

Same thing happens with transcend. I have played 1 (mby 2) games with him and he feels a little different here and then goes back to be the same piece of work I hate playing with due to the amount of shitpost and spam he posts. Ironically I get the scum gut feeling when he does his best most towny post for my logic side and I gut scum read him when he does his shitpost, fluff and spam which I don't find useful and makes the thread hard to follow. I will go after him depending on the flips. For example if gerry gets lynched and flips scum I will go for transcend right away cuz I did point out quite early in the game they were covering each others back.

TLDR: I do find enough stuff to be similar to their town games with me, so I don't go for them at the moment. specially drealmz since yoshi kind of cleared him.

p-edit: ignoring everything since my last post.

[kuror0]

I will start it just for fun and giggles and mby I can get more accurately his partners tho the pool is quite small atm. VOTE: Alissae

inba people sort of scum reading him but not convinced on his lynch.

[kuror0]

lunch break almost over and weekend is about to start so count me as V/LA till monday but I will *probably* check sunday or even saturday if things go slow.

[kuror0]

I get attention and now you vote me?
Oppertunistic as all hell.
You are obvscum Kuror0 sir.

yeah yeah then come after me. As always too much noise, no content. A couple of posts ago you were laying the foundation on your next jump, I'm opening the door so stop faking be useful and make a case on me. You had me as SR almost the whole game even when you change your mind and drop occasionals "oh mby he is town" still not devoted to chase me or leave me alone, always waiting for another target to jump so this time if you want to chase me you have to lead the hunt and actually put your thoughts out. Go for it you have the weekend till I come back to answer to your case.

[kuror0]

Clums why is it scummy to hide information from the town?
Sure that information could be given to scum by outing it, but it just causes more confusion if information was kept away from other townies like us.
Scum like that confusion and would rather townies get confused and push more townies. No?

Also right now I'm trying to decide if I should hop onto Kuror0 or PV.

To my replacement and the rest of the town: There's zero chance that PT cop role is town. Why would a setup give town a role that hurts town PRs and doesn't even confirm scum?

Doubly so if there's any neighbors in the game.

Much better to give to a scum team; it alows them to hunt masons AND otherscum at the same time. Don't let them get away with such a scumclaim. Alisae; this means you. Stop waffling and see the light; that's not a town PR.

Also I wanna put this here and go back to it.
Let's play a game, was Cabd trying to push a mislynch because he knew that Cloudie was a nieghborizer or something else?

I wanna flip the following nerds:
drealmerz/Yoshi, Zach, PV.

I still do SR Kuror0 but I dunno what flipping him would exactly tell us.

pedit: Garry I'm not sure on my Frogger read currently.

What I meant when I siad Alissae was laying the foundation on his next jump. Never lead a wagon always throw things in the air and when someone pushes he just goes along.

[kuror0]

I refuse, that's the way I express myself, the only way I find to speak my thoughts. Even when my english is not that good, my punctuation sucks and the way I make the phrases is weird, it is all I can do to show my thought process and show I'm town (which I know I'm fairly bad at).

That aside you changed targets probably 4 or 5 times (mby more? don't have time to go check it now) you have been calling me scum then when some people started calling me town you said "maybe he is town" (again can't go back right now but sure as hell I can find the direct quote) and I'm sure if a wagon starts on me you will jump like you have done with everybody else. About a case on you it is on my iso. scattered on a number of posts but my thoughts and suspicions about you are not secret to anyone so don't come with that bs.
And not tunneling you doesn't mean I have changed my mind since the first time I outed my scum read on you. I'm just not dumb enough to solely tunnel on you and not try to get the other scums. If you were the last scum and I were a 3 shot vig I would shot you 3 times, but you are not the last scum so I still have lots of work and spending the whole day phase pushing just for you was a waste of time D1. Here I can see the ones who have voiced suspicion on you reactions who will disband and how your wagon derails or even better get your flip and start hunting your partners.

p-edit: ignoring everything since Alissae weird role claim.

[kuror0]

ok my time is over will try to check tomorrow.

[kuror0]

ok my thoughts.

Yoshi is town. If he isn't he will fall eventually, so the option to lynch or vig him is as bad as it gets. Due to the amount of VT's we see it suits to have an investigative role, and due to the scum neighborizer death we know it would suit this game with the flips we already have and we will confirm it further with other flips so please leave yoshi alone for now and focus somewhere else time will show he is indeed town.

the fact that Alisae wagon is made of the confirmed or closest to be confirmed town does say something. The fact that has been there but the pressure deflected easily on D1 or other wagons grew way easier and faster is telling aswell. And we know those wagon who outgrowth Alisae's one were on town players.

I know about a couple of players who had alisae on SR but when the wagon gets rolling they suddenly change stance or vote somewhere else.

About the vg shot I think the best option is to take down a player who we doubt but has too little interactions making it hard to prove his innocence. PV is a fine choice for me. Elena is also a nice choice because honestly I can't remember who she replace or any meaningful interactions so I got her on null. About investigation I would suggest zach mby even jae. (replacements are my weak spot :<)

[kuror0]

605 Is him answering a question that was not directed towards him. Looks like he's trying to help and be useful (ISN'T WHAT HE'S SCUMREADING ME FOR????)
Also I wanna point out that around this time Manny, Mick, and Kuror0r were all attacking Garry around this point in time. This could be Kuror0 oppertunisticly trying to hop on a wagon for an early lynch.

1024 is their reason on the surface. Which sorta leads me to the point where he's attacking the questions I'm asking because he thinks they lead nowhere. But the problem with this is he's attacking the way I think. A response he may think is a dead end could help me read someone better. It's moreso attack on how I think and my playstyle.
Also anothing thing I want to note is how he mentions Pep v Ram/Clumsy to be a SvT when after Clumsy claims he doesn't hop on Pep and BOTH OF THEM ARE TOWN

2256 is him hopping on wagon oppertunisticly.

Those are the first 3 and I stopped right there. I won't even bother reading the rest when it all come down to such bs "case". I will just rewrite how I read those.

605 he participated and said his opinion on something I didn't ask directly, must be scum. Also he was attacking gerry along CMM and manny which obviously shows he was trying to get a quicklynch on D1 along other towns and to make it perfect he didn't even place his vote. obvious mafia treachery.

1024 he is questioning me, must be scum. I mean who dares to question the usefulness of my question. Also look at that, he mentioned a possible SvT and didn't use the opportunity to jump on a town slot. Damn scum tactics.

2256 he placed a vote and got reactions. Scummy as fuck.

So yeah I won't bother to read the rest of that post. Tried as hard as could to portray me as scummy yet the known facts show how my actions were in the benefit of town.


@yoshi I would say vig PV and investigate zach then.

[kuror0]

Oh look another Alissae wagon being derailed. I'm shocked. Not really.

[kuror0]

zach whats your read on Alissae and transc at this point?

[kuror0]

2 days left of day phase let's wrap this up.

Zach, drealmz and trans you all scumread Alisa so get in this and let's lynch scum.

Elena could use a check tonight her lynch isn't happening today anyways so...

Also once Alissa flips scum we could go tomorrow for fro9 just saying.

HBD PV and I hope you post your thoughts soon before we reach the lynch or the end of the day.

@Jaack besides yoshi what other scumreads you have right now?

[kuror0]

oh. my bad. Been quite busy at work so didn't had that much time and mixed the day with days left. Still I'm confident Alissae is scum so the lynch won't hurt and we kind of need more flips to solidify theories and stuff but ok with 9 days left no need to hurry, tho I don't see this moving too much, maybe PV input could change that.

[kuror0]

What makes you think she's scum rather than badtown especially?

For someone you consider obvtown having to use that as a defense is laughable. I was going to ask you a couple of things but then noticed the first phrase of your sig and got to the conclusion you are a blind follower. Was weird for me that you would be so adamant with so little/poor reasons, so it was shady for me but seems it is your play style so I won't bother with that. Still we do have quite opposite SRs so I'm wary about you.

[kuror0]

ehhh I was really hoping PV would add something or at least post his thoughts on the current wagons. but he didn't vote and he didn't add anything.

Jaack should really drop his vote on yoshi at this point, we are not going anywhere and this stall makes the game lose speed.

[kuror0]

What makes you think she's scum rather than badtown especially?

For someone you consider obvtown having to use that as a defense is laughable. I was going to ask you a couple of things but then noticed the first phrase of your sig and got to the conclusion you are a blind follower. Was weird for me that you would be so adamant with so little/poor reasons, so it was shady for me but seems it is your play style so I won't bother with that. Still we do have quite opposite SRs so I'm wary about you.

This is maybe scum btw, I'd add him to the vig pool. I was clearly talking to Transcend about Elena, not Alisae.

My sig has nothing about being a blind follower. It's about the fact that I defend my hard townreads.

This is just shadethrowing. I'd lynch this today too.

First line, my bad I actually thought you were defending Alissae (once again so that's why I interpreted it like that).

second line: "Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic". This is on your sig, that's why I said it is in your play style so I won't bother to go further on it but now you come with this chainsaw <3

It wasn't shade throwing I just said opposite SRs which is factual. You SR yoshi and TR Alissae. I TR yoshi and SR Alissae. Facts.

Once Alissae flips scum I would suggest Jae for investigation so I know if I should bother with him or not, but again it is up to the owner of the ability to pick the target.

[kuror0]

"doesn't make sense as either team" when we only have 1 scum flip and 2 scum teams. yeah ok.

Also your stance on I am willing to lynch everyone but Alissae doesn't help me to believe your words.

[kuror0]

yep yep seems every conf town or almost conf town is also playing badly according to you. You must get killed every n1 because your reads are so accurate scum must fear you, yet you don't care who gets lynched. I will just wait for alissae to flip scum and then see what you come up with.

[kuror0]

oh ffs...I don't know whats going on or if that's possible, for now...

UNVOTE:

[kuror0]

transc is L-2 or L-1?

If L-1 I call Intent to hammer and will give a couple of hours so if anyone has anything to say before I do they have room for it.

[kuror0]

Ok finished catching up. I do see transc weird logic abuse. If Elena does flip scum she must be Cloud's team, no resistance on this wagon. The initial so called resistance by transc was because we were way more confident on Alissae lynch but now that it is no longer the case Elena wagon has a lot of potential riders in less than 24 hours.

With that said I don't oppose lynching Elena or Trans for the matter. They are both on the scummy side of my reads and they are definitely not on the same team in the case they are both scum and I need flips to asses the balance of the game cause I truly don't know where are we standing atm.

P-edit: ignoring everything since post 5987 from fro9 as the first paragraph was an answer to his question.

[kuror0]

If Elena and Transc are equally possible to flip scum I would go for transc first. I would like to have a black team flip to shed light on this game. Just my 2 cents.

[kuror0]

Ahh we got a vig shot. If we lynch Elena then my vote changes to vig transc and check PV or zach.

[kuror0]

You guys already have my thoughts about this. I will joining transcend wagon tonight after people have weighted in.

If Elena and Transc are equally possible to flip scum I would go for transc first. I would like to have a black team flip to shed light on this game. Just my 2 cents.

vigshot: whomever we don't lynch aka transc or Elena.
PT check: zach

[kuror0]

got home rdy to vote transc but no votecount so I will wait. claim transc tho I thought you said you were VT.

[kuror0]

Am I the only one slightly skeptical about Jae's ability to clear? Like, less "I don't think they can", and more "I'm worried about the possibility of them (Jae and Alisae) being scum together." I think I mentioned that it would also be an okay idea to check Jae for PTs, because if we clear there, that's 100% 2 more confirmed townies.

Just me? Okay. ._.

No, I considered it too but too many unknown things for me and proceeding with rush may hurt us more, that's why I said:

With that said I don't oppose lynching Elena or Trans for the matter. They are both on the scummy side of my reads and they are definitely not on the same team in the case they are both scum and I need flips to asses the balance of the game cause I truly don't know where are we standing atm.

VOTE: Transc that puts him at L-1

[kuror0]

what should be stopped?

[kuror0]

Mmm it is simple we lynch jaack today. He should flip scum. In the rare case he actually flips town we lynch jae. Once jaack is dead we lynch elena and with all those scums dead it should be only 1 team left and a very narrow lynch pool.

Btw Elena you say I'm white mafia. When picking me as a target for mislynch you forgot to double check stuff. Like yesterday I could have voted you at some point instead of transcend and avoid his lynch at least for that day. I said that if you and him had the same chance of flipping scum then transcend was a better target. Also that would mean fro9 is also my partner and I had been scum reading fro and tried to push for a lynch on him before. so yeah... me being white scum doesn't make sense.

p-edit: we solve the 1v1 first it is stupid to go for another lynch option today, but that's just elena trying to get more days alive for free.

[kuror0]

I will vote jaack but I'm giving time for people to catch up and post their ideas. It is still weekend so I'm not sure everybody is here.

[kuror0]

So should I hammer? As gerry already pointed out there is almost no reason a scum would counterclaim a vig who already used his shots. Jaack being scum does way more sense than jae being scum.

Elena is probably also scum but one at the time the whole thing about letting the 1v1 not resolved to go for another uncertain lynch is bad. Plus making the theory I'm partner with transc and fro9 is ridiculous. I could have hammered Elena at some point or even just vote for her and the lynch would go her way instead I said we should lynch transc. Now she says I'm transc partner <.<

[kuror0]

well then let's get this rolling. VOTE: Jaack

Yes I do problem?

Not sure if this was directed to me but if it was the problem is that your accusation doesn't make sense. If you add the fact that tried to postpone the resolution of 1v1 feels like you and your team is cornered so let's see what flips jaack and tomorrow we deal with you.

[kuror0]

Elena now that the whole white team is whiped what are your reads?

[kuror0]

I will just burp it out now and not later. I still think heavily Alissae is scum. I know Jae was town but his "confirmation" that Alissae is town is nothing but a strong read and I happen to have a strong scum read on her as well and his game is awful. And it is weird people suddenly town read him so strongly but w/e.

Now that I had let it out I am on board with Elena lynch > Zach. Not really scum reading gerry. But do we want to finish this day so soon?

[kuror0]

I see what you two are up to and if Elena flips town you two are fucked because if Elena flips town I see a future where you two blitz me at Lylo/Mylo

Ugg seriously you make me wanna go again full tunnel.

I see Elena -Alissae. > Elena - Zach.

Despite how much I would like Alissae lynched we should proceed with Elena first in case I'm wrong.

p-edit: ignoring everything since 6651

[kuror0]

we win as in town wins.
Duh

Will have to save this one and if everything turns out that way I must remember that scumslips do happen this way.

[kuror0]

Nah Zach she voted herself and then unvoted.
Too bad your scumbud Kuror didn't hammer it.

Yep as always when someone tries to push a mislynch for me they tend to quote stuff that proves how bad scum I am or how my pm actually said I was town but they must ignore that and keep pushing blindly for the mislynch.

[kuror0]

Don't get overdefensive. I clearly stated I was saving it in case things turn out that way. But the freak out is appreciated.

[kuror0]

Holy crap jajajaja

oh man. the amount of shit I just saw coming from Elena. Hey remember when you were saying I was the last white mafia and how I told you it didn't make fucking sense but you were desperate looking for a person to try to get traction desperately? yeah the same is happening now with your push on drealmz. It is shit on top of shit and you and alissae conveniently reach to the same points.

Gotcha.
Elena I might actually follow you on this traitor shit if Zach flips Black.
It would make a lot of sense for the nieghborizer and a traitor to be on the same scumteam together.

Yeah right, the only investigative role we got could be fooled by 2 types of ability. One of which would add 1 more player to the pool per night. Even fi drealmz were a traitor due to mod confirmation we only need to get his partner and he would be endgamed but you have to ignore all that because you are desperate, and Alissae went from "let's lynch Elena today and not fuck around" to I will vote along Elena for every other possible wagon. I've got enough info to feel pretty confident about this

VOTE: Elena

[kuror0]

And I call it BS because at the time you were sure I was white scum and avoided jaack lynch or even address the 1v1 in hopes to negate info from town (and that would mean another NK) and now you are sure I am scum on the black team. Which means you first had me sure on white due to poe but now you have me as sure on black because you need to push for anything you can.

Ideas and questions? They are leading questions as drealmz pointed out. You are jumping around looking for anything you can use to push on anyone.

[kuror0]

And I call it BS because at the time you were sure I was white scum and avoided jaack lynch or even address the 1v1 in hopes to negate info from town (and that would mean another NK) and now you are sure I am scum on the black team. Which means you first had me sure on white due to poe but now you have me as sure on black because you need to push for anything you can.

Ideas and questions? They are leading questions as drealmz pointed out. You are jumping around looking for anything you can use to push on anyone.

you mean I avoided the jaack lynch on the obv scum between Jae/Jaack? Yes yes I did because in my eyes it was best to aim for white scum to avoid nightkills Yes I think you are still scum given the events that have happened today.

Yep. Instead of going for a guaranteed scum who could be on any team lets go for a lynch on an undetermined alignment player who even if turns scum there is no guarantee the team he belongs. Solid plan.

I would make a disclaimer and say that if you are town that's the most retarded logic ever but coming from scum I can easily see you knew he was the last white team member and you wanted to keep him around for another NK to decimate town. So it was a stance you took thinking on your team's best interest. Now I go back to work nothing else to find here.

p-edit: I can argue so much about it. But it is not worth my time I have to work and it would just show another scum motivated push disguissed as poor logic nothing that hasn't been made already.

[kuror0]

I don't. I never said I did. At some point recently I said I saw Elena paired with either Zach or Alissae, that's why I wasn't pushing for Alissae and rather focus on Elena at that moment. And due to my vote I think I still hold that thought.

You had a town read on me but always said you had shitty reads this game so you didn't hold it that hight but now suddenly it is a scum read? That's a rather odd progression. Can you walk me through what changed that read?

[kuror0]

Quite frankly? Do I think Alisae is towny? Not really Jaereed tr him plus Alisae doesn't have a reason to keep me alive so I believe "flip" compared to "weird townread" from Kuro0 if kuro really thought it was me or zach he shouldn't care this much about changing a vote. Once again Actions don't much up with words

but, but... when the fuck did I said it was you OR zach?

[kuror0]

Notice how Kuro still ignores my case on him because he knows it's solid.

So you want me to disprove the case you made where your conclusion as that I HAD to be the last white scum right? Yeah you got me I'm the last white scum... <.<

Want me to talk about how flawed the process of poe you used is? Dismissed the ones buddying. Dismissed the ones bussing, so it had to be the neutral not so mentioned guy. Because you know scum never have that flip floppy attitude on their partners... Not to mention you ignored my push on fro9 or that I was one of the first ones(if not the first) saying transcend was a better lynch option over you, when your wagon had more traction at the time. That was your poe and events assessment to determine I HAD to be the last white scum.

Now you used all that rock solid logic and poe to say: oh you know, he must be black mafia then... man I hope clumsy and mick get to a decision soon cuz every time I have to answer your questions I get depressed.

[kuror0]

Ok I will step over a line but I must ask. Are you fucking retarded? How "Elena paired with either zach or Alissae" is the same as "kuro really thought it was me or zach he shouldn't care this much about changing a vote."

Sorry but I will take a step back and come back tomorrow or after you decide a lynch. Dealing with this much intentional selective stupidity is annoying. /off

[kuror0]

ok I'm fresh now. Sorry if I offended anyone yesterday. Now..-

You have a lynch pool of 3 so why's it so hard for you to lynch in the 3?

Because you are the common factor. Why would I risk going for a lynch that maybe ends up on town flip?

No, I'm not scum and definitely not caught in that flawed attempt of poe. It is just made to suit your needs. Your scum read on me relies only in that poe or there is something else you got on me? something not entirely fabricated?


Would the masons come here and choose a lynch or something? have you guys read everything? reached a consensus or is it not clear yet?

[kuror0]

^ seriously.

Weekend is starting for me on 2 hours so you won't count with me till monday. I might check at some point but can't guarantee it this one. I would much prefer for you to lynch Elena so we can start the next day phase around monday.

[kuror0]

as soon as saw zach flip I knew I would be insta waggoned but please clumsy don't hammer me yet. Elena will put me at L-1 as soon as she comes so let me post some stuff before you hammer. But it is weekend and I'm busy so it will take a while.

[kuror0]

aaaaand I'm here.

@Clumsy Would you like the shot answer or the train of thought I had that led me to a sad answer. While you tell me which one you prefer I'm checking the last thing I have to check to be confident on the sad answer.

@gerry which game you need from me?

[kuror0]

Since I got back to mafia I only played 1 scum game which was the first on my return, it was newbie 1737. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68156.

[kuror0]

ffs got visit. And it takes time to re check the vote counts and stuff. be back asap

[kuror0]

ok back. While I keep tracking things I will say what I thought yesterday/today. I first thought about a no lynch and tomorrow you lynch me anyways just so scum had to take 1 more player before the mylo/lylo. Then I realized the scum targets are clear clumsy and drealmz as they are both 100% town which means we got 2 lynchs anyway and we can have at least 1 confirmed town for mylo so the no lynch is a no go.

Then We have the pool of 4 potential scum player of which my thought were Alissae > Elena > gerry. But I have overlooked a lot on gerry since his wagon formed so I'm re checking interactions and that wagon formation tho was a bit hard and I haven't finished reading everything there so I will have a better idea when I'm done with that.

Only thing I can really see different is you posted less this game. Can you tell me in particular clumsy and dreal what you see town about him that's different from that game?

I'm always accused of being lurky so don't lose your mind over it. On clumsy's game I think I posted a lot more but it is due to other issues and not an alignment trait as far as I can realize.

I honestly think it's kuror0 based on what I said earlier or yesterday I don't remember which.

Could you remember me what is making you scum read me? I really can't remember at this point and time is not on my side.

[kuror0]

I'm talking about the possibility when I thought about it. You had been a scum read of mine the whole game why would I suddenly think you are any less scum? you elise and gerry were on zach wagon which means one of you were bussing real hard. That fact can only be proven once I flip but it is a known fact from my pov. Plus I'm re assessing the likeliness of everyone stop calling for drama.

[kuror0]

yeah I'm heavily thinking about it too. I mean zach is scum and I know I'm town so Elena wagon was 2 towns and 1 scum(zach). Zac's partner could have easily moved to elena and get them 1 more day so why let the masons pick the lynch? it was either both wagons were scum or both scums were heavily suspected and bussing the one who got the leading wagon would get town cred which was needed. This makes me think that gerry as scum would not make sense. He wasn't being pressured and he wasn't scumread that much if I remember correctly so he could have just jumped on Elena to get another day for zach without much effort and could have avoided you(which were just behind zach and elena) to get towncred. I still think that he is the less likely to be scum from you 3 but when I get to this stage my paranoia just goes over the roof and makes me re check everything to see if I overlooked something specially cause recently I made that mistake.

p-edit: this was all since this post.

Maybe I could see Elena v Zach being scumtheatre. Certainly did look like it.
How do you know it was a bus?

[kuror0]

some other stuff. Jae shot cloud. jaack(white mafia) claimed he shot pine which means he probably was the one carrying the nightkill and doing it on that target. Then Black mafia killed manuel and cloud being black mafia choose to neighborize a target. Due to no counterclaim we know it has to be either gerry or Pine (or he forgot to neighborize someone? Highly unlikely i think). So the only options for scum gerry is that A. cloud neighborized pine and gerry knowing this took the chance to claim he did on him. B. scum teams shenanigans to protect from yoshi investigation.

after re checking. cloud asked for yoshi to be checked but gerry was a top town read of yoshi. So it makes even less sense to try to pull another scum on the neighborizer thing when cloud was asking to be checked it would have raised too many concerns. Unless you again think about some heavy shenanigans but I think it would be putting too many eggs in the same basket for scum team on D1. So unless cloud tried to neighborize pine I doubt scum gerry.

Which leads me to Elena > Alissae. This is where I am for now but I got to take a break for today. Overthinking every single option.

[kuror0]

Well since clumsy hasn't showed up yet I will post my thoughts.

So yeah I basically convinced myself at this point that the last scum has to be between Alissae and Elena. But the answer of who to lynch is sad for me. If we lynch one and it wasn't the right one on mylo there will be a huge push on me, making things easier for scum.

So I think the best choice is to lynch me and force the mylo between gerry - Elena - Alissae and by forcing them to go for each other we can hope to have gathered enough info for the remaining towns to make the right lynch. One of clumsy or drealmz are bound to be killed tonight which means on mylo we would only have 1 conf town and they are the only ones that town read me so it will be easier for scum to try to get me lynched on mylo if we don't lynch the scum today and I am alive.

[kuror0]

huh, that was fast to turn to each other. Still having a hard time picking which one is the most probable scum. On one hand I've scum read Alissae and his horrible play the whole game, on the other hand Elena seems to be the most probable to be scum. You both have displayed flimsy stances, flip flopping and jumping when the opportunity arises. But Elena seems more probable due to yesterday buss on zach and I really thoought it was elena + Zach OR elena + Alissae.

So for now my vote goes to Elena.

@gerry what are your thoughts so far? don't wait for clumsy, post your ideas first and let clumsy gauge everything and let us know his thoughts after everyone has posted theirs.

[kuror0]

Every time Alissae talks I feel it comes from scum. Elena brought a good point were zach did came early to push for her. Do I really think it is more probable that zach replaced D2 (was D2 right?) bussing right away or just as last attempt to get the scum partner towncred?

P-edit: yeah I'm not placing my vote until I've heard everything I could.

[kuror0]

I don't buy Alissae's AtE. I have suffered from scums doing this AtE when they were pushed to a corner so I really don't buy that shit. And the player that used it could cite meta cases where he was AtEing like that on town games so I definitely don't buy this. Sorry if it is real frustration or w/e but my experience tells me not to believe it.

[kuror0]

I was voting her yesterday you know? What does it tell you about me believing her AtE?

[kuror0]

the thing is you don't make sense. Your defense is that you were transc counter wagon and it was tied and got to L-2. But the same thing happened to Elena until we decided to go for trasc. So your defense applies to both slots ergo it doesn't work.

You question my don't believe AtE stance but you fail to remember that I was voting Elena the whole day yesterday. I didn't lift that vote which is a reason why I get more scum reads, so you remember things when they are useful to you and forget parts when they don't suit you.

[kuror0]

you both voted me as soon as the day started can I make an act too? We both scum read Elena so does she get to make act 3?

wait even better at that point i should have gone: "my both scumreads want me dead it is obvious that I am town and we actually have 2 scums left hurr durr caps"

well at this point I'm just bashing that overact of AtE so I'm just walking away and hope tomorrow clumsy has a decision.

p-edit: huh now I see. let me make a post.

my vote now stands on Alissae. making the post.

[kuror0]

Ok my bad. I read poorly the first time and this is not as bad as I first read it. But I still see the pattern to try to get on gerrys soft side. The following is what I had made before I realize my poor interpretation so feel free to skip it but I wasted so quite some time gathering the quotes that I feel I must post it anyways.

GARRYBOTE LITTERALLY CANNOT READ ME FOR SHIT
LIKE, EVER.

At the start of the AtE I found this post out of place. Because you know in the previous pages gerry never said he would vote Alissae over Elena or something like that and in the inmediate previous trade there was no mention of it or an attitude of gerry being specially hard to Alissae. This is the last couple of posts from gerry to get context.

Spoiler: gerry's post previous to that alissae post.

Guess who also the counter wagon to transcend was

Me.

hey me too!!!!!!!!

Alisae, if we lynch Elena and she flips town then what?

All this ate lol. Elena, do you really think he is faking this?

Well he said he wants to vote her soo...

(when Alissae asked if I believed Elena's AtE)

So you see the whole gerry can't read me for shit was out of place for me but then Alissae comes with this:

In all seriousness if I get lynched today, having to pick Garrybote pick between Kuror and Elena is going to be a lot harder then to pick between Elena and me.
And I don't trust Garrybote to actually do footwork. Because there is no way he does not go to lylo.
Ywall might as well spend MYLO and treat it like it's Lylo cuz going into Mylo you'll have atleast 1 confirmed town.

This is like oh hey let me live for today because it is just easier if I stay alive for tomorrow... plus all the work he has been doing on gerry.









p-edit: this ignores everything that was said after my previous post <.<

[kuror0]

really back to me Alissae? huh

[kuror0]

Elena I'm 1v1ing you when we get to Mylo/Lylo

rly? scumslipping by pushing for me but threatening with I will deal with you 1v1 on mylo?

[kuror0]

Ok I got sick of this joke.

VOTE: Alissae

My vote will be parked there till the day is over or someone can overwhelm me with reasons.

As an option I propose you guys lynch me and next day no matter who the fuck stays alive you lynch Alissae. I don't care what you think, what your reads are or anything once you lynch me and see me flipping town you are bind to lynch Alissae next day and we win the game. If for some reason Alissae flips town you will be the first player I will raise a lynch policy because I swear I have seen scum do more work for town than you have this game.

For someone so proud of 1 game you got on your sigs your reads have been bad, your stances have been against town objectives and your scum hunting was almost nonexistant if you take omgus and sheeping away you got shit, so I'm for real on this 1v1 lynch me first to know how serious I'm talking but those who vote for me will have to vote for Alissae next day no matter what.

[kuror0]

yep yep w/e you say. Taking things out of context. I placed a vote on clumsy which was so naked people had to react and actually some people unvoted. It didn't last there. Now if you wanna bitch about my vote patterns I can show you all my games where I don't place my vote much and I'm still town.

Yeah no scumhunting at all. picking transc over Elena means I was his partner and I'm coasting. Scum reading fro9 for most part of the game means I clearly can't solve the game for shit. I explained my vote on clumsy and why it was the way I did thoroughly and you decide to ignore that as well.

I'm clear about this vote me lynch me but everyone who votes for me be goddamn sure to vote Alissae tomorrow.

[kuror0]

hoops to solve the game? don't make me laugh please all you post is conjectures that work in your favor which is the same you did on the "case" you posted about me. You haven't tried once to show facts with perspective and to make it worse you have intentionally cut the parts that doesn't suit your needs. Said it when you were pushing for Elena and I repeat it now so jump some more and make more noise to cover the lack of real analysis you portray every time.

Yeah I scumslipped because no one else but me could foresee that me parked on scumzach counter wagon was making me the easy target and I said it openly. Some people call me sherlock holmes due to that huge capacity of deduction. <.<

anyways done here. Will wait for everybody to read and see if they accept the deal of lynching me but tomorrow lynching you no matter what.

[kuror0]

Not buying this. Not at this point with all the changes on stance you have presented. The amount of misreps done to support your so called cases and your flip flopping.

I really beg everyone lynch me or alissae but promise once I flip town you will vote alissae the next day without a second thought.

[kuror0]

yes there are. You will make them doubt. If Elena flips town you will self vote at the start but they will doubt about you being scum and I will prevent that to happen by commiting to this me -> you lynch sequence.

[kuror0]

I know you would start the day by voting yourself but that doesn't mean we wont get to the point where you will try to get me lynched again so I will avoid this situation by being the first one lynched but making everyone else commit to your vote the next day. That way I guarantee that there is no turning back I give my word and comply by being lynched today but they better keep their word and lynch you tomorrow no matter what you say or try.

p-edit: because I don't trust you at all? Not my first game and I know scums don't keep their word.

p-edit2: Sounds like the best ever but I want to take you out today or I go first and make sure the rest of town takes you down.

p-edit3: You don't have to believe me. That's the beauty of this pact. I die I flip, so my alignment is out of question and my words get the town credibility then everyone must vote you as soon as the next day starts. It is not about trust is about commitment to follow a read I'm convinced. And that is I'm not letting you win as scum even if I have to be lynched first and if you are town then I will take the blame for the loss and raise a policy lynch on every game I find you because I don't see if this is your town game how is it good for town at all. I seriously have seen scums help more town than you.

p-edit 4: oh ffs clumsy don't do this to me.

p-edit5: pls let me post.

[kuror0]

Yep, I think scum gerry would have won ages ago. yesterday when I was revieving everything I did consider the possibility but it does a lot less sense than scum alissae or elena.

Post the case clumsy you are town and know you are not trying to distract or anything so take your time post the case and lets asses but it will really have to be a mind blowing case for me to shift. While I revievew and started having doubts about gerry I noticed he had way better options for scum play. If you trully believe in that case post it and I will make my best to have a sane judgment about it. Maybe you bring stuff that I overlooked or forgot but I really doubt I change my mind.

p-edit 1 2 and 3: pls let me post this ignores like 1 page of posts already.

[kuror0]

oh ok. So I was clear already you guys can lynch me but if you do you better swear on your kids/mother/pet/god/potatos/favorite game that you will start next day with a simple vote on alissae and that's it. I will go first so you don't have to be paranoid about scum shenanigans but you better stick to your word and lynch him the next day.

p-edit x2: Have I not been clear enough he hasn't scumhunt at all besides speculative support and omgus/sheeping?

[kuror0]

started the day voting me. Then switched to Elena because you were sure due to X-reason I was town and tried to make a deal with me which you now openly said was a lie, then switching to gerry to finally without any other judgment just the hint that clumsy would be picking my lynch you vote me back. What happened to the kuro's tone sounds town I know he must be town to get back on me out of thin air? or did something change?

[kuror0]

Com'on Kuror!
It's a free win for you if you think I'm scum!
Like there is no reason not to say yes.

yes there are. You will make them doubt. If Elena flips town you will self vote at the start but they will doubt about you being scum and I will prevent that to happen by commiting to this me -> you lynch sequence.

I know you would start the day by voting yourself but that doesn't mean we wont get to the point where you will try to get me lynched again so I will avoid this situation by being the first one lynched but making everyone else commit to your vote the next day. That way I guarantee that there is no turning back I give my word and comply by being lynched today but they better keep their word and lynch you tomorrow no matter what you say or try.

p-edit: because I don't trust you at all? Not my first game and I know scums don't keep their word.

p-edit2: Sounds like the best ever but I want to take you out today or I go first and make sure the rest of town takes you down.

Kuror. I know you're town.
I was gambiting.
Unvote to hear Clums.

VOTE: Garrybote

So you just had me as 100% town. And now when he says he wants me wagoned i'm suddenly the best lynch

When I drew out the lylo charts I was intrigued.

Alisae, what does your post earlier here mean? "I know you're town Kuror, I was gambiting". What were you hoping to gain from that?

In my little tiny, malfunctioning brain I was thinking I only had scum between Kuror and Kuror's tone really seemed like town who just wanted out. I was trying to gambit by saying I was going to self vote but not self vote the next day cuz I was honestly just desperate.

And I totally called it. So please either vote Alissae or vote me but you better fucking lynch alissae tomorrow.

[kuror0]

Like for a bit I really thought Kuror was town because of his tone.

So I ask again what changed. You reconsidered my previous words and decided: nah that's not a towny tone or what?

[kuror0]

from scumreading -> townread me due to tone.

Saying "I know you are town" and try to make a deal with me which you never intended to keep up -to-> back to voting me out of nowhere.

This is scum so please lynch her or lynch me and lynch him tomorrow no matter what.

[kuror0]

I already told you I don't but AtEs you have been sheeping this whole game so your vote on me is now sheeping what read? since you don't trust your own reads anymore.

[kuror0]

yep. convenient. That's why I refused to make a deal with you. Tomorrow you will probably throw a shit ton of AtE at them and then proceed to try to make a case on Elena which again will be full of misreps but people are too short sighted to see anything and/or too scared to make a move so things will delay more and more which will allow you to get a chance to win as scum.

@Town

Lynch me today but lynch alissae tomorrow. As soon as the day starts you vote him and that's it. You don't make a recap you don't hear everyone's thoughts you don't follow your gut or anything because you obviously can't make the right calls so you let me take the shot and bear the consequences (which will be a town win but you are too blind and too biased by his constant poor performance to notice.)

[kuror0]

Now I'm out to sleep and remember my words. Lynch Alissae tomorrow.

[kuror0]

Food for thought why would scum kill drealmz over clumsy? Am I trying shenaningans like crazy with yesterday insistence on voting me first and then Alissae, and now killing the only one townreading me hard or is it Elena, taking the one who could oppose my lynch and let clumsy live who yesterday said was going to vote for me. If you think I am this bold as scum you flatter me but I'm not. Does my play really made you think: "oh this guy wants to survive at all cost or just someone following his scumreads at hearth?" and not just yesterday through the whole game you will see that.

If garry were scum he would have won ages ago and like I said yesterday, he had so many better options as scum that I don't see him being scum.

VOTE: Elena

gerry and clumsy it is your call.

[kuror0]

You did a case on me? Could you quote it? I got no memory of that.

I'm tired and got to wake up early. Yesterday I was going to vote Elena despise my read on Alissae because I genuinely thought things fit better as Elena scum, but Alissae open his mouth and throw everything to shit because there was no way in hell I would let scum Alissae win, but we now know he is just terrribad town so this loss is onto him and many players forgiving that shitty playstyle so... /end of rant.

wifoming NK? Sure it would make sense to kill the one with the solid town read on me and let clumsy live, the one who said would vote me, all that just for the sake of wifoming about it, no risk big reward right?

Too tired to try to get this game back for town. If you guys are set on your mind just vote me because you have ignored all the evidence about scum Elena which was about to be lynched for 2 days straight but I, who was a town read suddenly got a scum read because I was voting Elena instead of zach. I shouldn't follow my scumreads and just tag along so I don't stand out or take personal stances on reads because that's just not a town attitude.

Hopefully tomorrow i have a better attitude because at this point I'm really just blaming everyone and myself or if you are set on that just lynch me because I don't want to have another game rounding in circles forever talking to walls.

[kuror0]

I was the one said that so I will tackle that today. I'm fresh now so I will make my best effort but I just got to work so I'm behind schedule will post when I get time.

[kuror0]

Sorry it will be delayed by quite some time.

This post had a substantive comment about an ongoing game. This is

for some dumb reason which I disagree with

not allowed by site rules.

The allowed version of this post would be:
"Another game is taking a lot of my time, so I'll focus on that."

-Scout

[kuror0]

So yeah as inspector rectified I will focus there and will be back here focused on 1 day tops. Bear with me.

[kuror0]

oh noes I slipped. ok my other game just needs the mod to close the thread but I got a loss on a situation that I feel it is quite similar than this one. Now I'm tired and disappointed so let me sleep and tomorrow will do my best again to avoid the same fate.

[kuror0]

Ok it is done. The other game is over and I can finally link it. I know it is a lot to ask but care to check my performance there and compare it to this game. You can probably do parallels with Alissae = kuroi and Elena = Maria. You guys are probably set on me as scum so the best I can do is show you a game that just ended in a very similar scenario to prove I'm actually town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68764

look at the events on the last couple of days specially. That's all I can do if you don't think it proves anything then vote away.

[kuror0]

So yeah as inspector rectified I will focus there and will be back here focused on 1 day tops.

Bear

with me.

Scum found, this man is a sloth, not a bear. GG EZ

Plot twist on my language the name would be translated roughly to "lazy bear". Checkmate Atheists.

Now seriously, I'm waiting for Elena too.

[kuror0]

Gerry you think I'm the scum right?

[kuror0]

I think Elena. When making my case for Alissae I did re check gerry and I do think he could have secured the game since long ago if he was scum. I just re checked and Elena was at l-2 at start of D4 without a counter wagon. Wasn't till gerry got there and pushed for him that others joined and ended in scumzach lynch. So if gerry was scum with zach he could have joined to have Elena lynched and save his partner. Could it happen as a gamble for scum gerry? sure it could happen but I think it is not that common so town gerry is for me.

Also from my pov I know there was bussing on the zach wagon, consider this and tell me which one is more likely to happen. 1st vote scum gerry calling others to lynch his partner and save a town? or 3rd vote scum Elena voting for his partner to try to get some town cred and distance? To me the decision is simple I would lynch Elena.

p-edit: ninjaed x2

[kuror0]

So I'm still a lil drunk and can't bother to check gerry's meta. If he is scum he did a good job and deserves to win over scumElena. I might check monday or so but I think you should take decision soon Clumsy. If it takes too long you will probably base your decision solely on this day phase and neglect everything that has happened up to this point. (I'm aware this might bite me because I was your first suspect but it is an honest advice)

I still stand that Elena is the scum, her attitude today has been specting to see what decision you take but not getting involved in any way. I would say she is too aware and is avoiding to make a mistake and keeping her options open but I'm already set on who is the most probable scum and is your call. Will be back monday if anything.