Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:58 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: Pine
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Post Post #39 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:39 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 35, Titus wrote:and I'm practically a pioneer of the new age analysis.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 47, Infinity 324 wrote:Your reaction here seems overblown.
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I'm hoping you're not being serious here.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:36 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah unless you want me voting for pentatonix get used to it
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Post Post #88 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:36 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 85, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 84, Aeronaut wrote:
V/LA for a few days at least. I'm in the ER until further notice.
:eek:

I hope you're okay.

VOTE: Indigo

Nice to meet you.
Indigo isn't going to post for like 5 days. He's on VLA if I'm not mistaken.
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Post Post #97 (isolation #5) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Desperado if I told you there was a 35% chance on Infinity being scum, would you buy the odds?
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Post Post #101 (isolation #6) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:14 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

IDK how we'd be privvy to that. Normals for example start 13 with three scum I think. That's like 23%
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Post Post #104 (isolation #7) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:31 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

FWIW your math is wrong. You take the percentage of the whole populace, not the assumed scum:town ratio. 4/17 is 23% scum ration, 5/17 is 29%. Not that it's completely relevant to anything, but that's how you'd measure it.
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Post Post #252 (isolation #8) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I owe this thread something before I go on VLA. However:

VLA until early the 16th/late 15th. New trainee at work and I'm picking extra hours for their training
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Post Post #255 (isolation #9) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:03 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 182, Infinity 324 wrote:Uhh

Ok so thinkbig was saying what he said because he thought it was a contradiction in personality, I responded to say no that just how titus is. The thing about being good at VCA...ok, I'm not sure I completely agree with you and I'm also not sure that it matter. My point was that there's no contradiction there.

I liked thinkbig's post because the last 3 paragraphs were good observations and said in a genuine noob town way.

AJ is fluffing it up and giving commentary instead of scumhunting.
So that's actually normal early. I like to look for motives between players (associative, I guess, but more towards the 'why do you do blank'). Early on, there's really not anything for me to do because it, sorta like VCA, requires an established 'baseline' (who do you believe, how have you been acting). I'm notoriously awful at early games and circumvent this a lot by replacing in more than signing up for queued games.

As for my post early on (pot/kettle), this was because I read Infinity's early post (24?) as asking titus to save his ass from an early wagon. Which would've been an overreaction in every sense of the word. There wasn't really any reason to be that concerned for a counter wagon, so I thought it was funny Infinity thought titus was overreacting by continuing an RVS wagon.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #10) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:02 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Cakez' vote for me is actually horrendous. He's mentioned me once outside of his vote, in one sentence with no explanation. In his own post, he had other places that he looked like he wanted to go and settled with me. It's probably because only Kling/myself have been mentioned at all elsewise, even though BBMola was the only one to make any insinuations about my alignment. This is flailing of the most obvious degree.

VOTE: sircakez

For reference, this is 6 (I think). It's nine to lynch.
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Post Post #381 (isolation #11) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:25 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 379, SirCakez wrote:That AJ post is the worst post in the game thread imo. He's even guilty of the same thing he's calling me scum for (not mentioning a scumread before voting them), given that he hasn't called me a scumread until that post.
And his mentioning of how close to the lynch we are despite us being only like 3 days into the game reeks of scum eager for a mislynch.
Worst in the thread after we remove your iso. OFC I wasn't calling you scum up until that. 1st, there's basically 8 pages of posts since I've decided to actively respond to the gamestate at large. Second, your post on me was awful and so I addressed it. Finally, my worry was allowing a mislynch to happen, or if you'd prefer we just keep that number in the dark so someone can lolhammer your scum ass.
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Post Post #382 (isolation #12) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:26 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

*mishammer, not mislynch.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #13) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:42 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

The difference is you engaged it to begin with. You showed a clear lack of flow in your reads.

Also yes, our last VC was like Pg 10 or something? In that scenario, where you went from 2-5 before my vote, losing track of it is an honest possibility and I wanted to ensure it wouldn't occur.
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Post Post #422 (isolation #14) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:39 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

The language you use is ambiguous. Purposefully.
kind of stuff he spewed in his vote on me was definitely from scum
Like it would just kill you to give actual context.
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Post Post #436 (isolation #15) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:57 pm

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In post 427, SirCakez wrote:I don't understand why he hasn't posted about any of his "baselines/motives" though. It looks like an excuse.
...Why would I? It's entirely off of the history of the thread, so being at post 435 doesn't really do much for it. I simply look for inconsistencies and try to determine why someone might have the patterns they develop.

As a sidenote,
Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 422, Aj The Epic wrote:The language you use is ambiguous. Purposefully.
kind of stuff he spewed in his vote on me was definitely from scum
Like it would just kill you to give actual context.
I kinda doubt that even if cakez is scum since he already explained what he disliked about it earlier.
It's the language in general is normally similar. The accusatory style has 2 parts that I find scummy:
First, it's broad. There's a lot left to interpretation (or bad generalizations, such as his 'iso summary' post, which is a bullshit shadetossing fest anyways.
Second, It's ALWAYS THIRD PERSON, even when he's talking to no one in particular (aka no answers/continued discussion with another user). This is a way to discourage discussion between the user and the accused.
SirCakez wrote:What's up with Aero popping in to say he was catching up then dodging out?
Who's he asking? Not Aero, but the rest of the users. Why would the rest of the users have an answer? This isn't MEANT to generate anything but suspicion.
SirCakez wrote:I also hate that AJ came in to take a potshot at me while continuing to not provide any other content. Like using his scumread on me as an excuse to not engage is what it looked like to me.
Same thing here. Could just address me up front, but instead words it third person to cast suspicion instead of ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH IT like trying to discuss it. People like Tammy when town ALWAYS use first person to address the people she's suspicious of. It's a way to generate conversation, and it's a town thing to do.


And by the way, Cakez, THAT is the basis of motive hunting.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #16) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:24 am

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In post 490, SirCakez wrote:For the first bit, why can't you share any of these "patterns" that you're finding?
The rest of the wall is I think the first time I've ever been called scum for how I type and play. You could ISO me in literally any game I've played and I'll be typing the same way. Reachy as fuck.
Patterns require repetition and consistency to prove they're not one-off.

I'm not a meta reader, so don't expect any of that shit to sway me. I do notice that you've finally decided to directly address me though. Is there some element of 'this is how I type' in these situations? Yes, but it's not the full story. Unless you play in a way that always discourages interactions, this is a valid point.
Nero Cain wrote:The only ones I'm interested in flipping are Cakez, maybe Titus and the Thinker hydra. Not real real sold on Kling. Like....she's being a useless lurksack which is fully within her scum meta. I used to think that her instance that she was a "day 3 player" was actually super scummy and a license to lurk and be useless for the most important part of the game. I mean maybe she does it regardless of alignment but then I've just come to the slow realization that everyone from that site is like a blackhole of pro-town play.

The only thing that slightly irks me about the Cakez wagon is that there hasn't been any attempt at a couterwagon (maybe Kling?) I mean if its Cakez, Ari, ????, Titus??? team it could just be a real ineffective team but his jump onto Titus was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bad. So maybe that does rule out Titus but she's being a lurksack and her defense of Cakez was pretty shitty.
I swear to god you will never go a game without assuming Titus is scum in some capacity.

I don't think it's there hasn't been an attempt at a counterwagon so much as it just hasn't really led anywhere. Overall I'm getting weak signals from this game for showing anything pro-town outside heartz/Infinity right now. I've come to realize that Uzi may just... have past a Turing Test at some point and decided to play mafia, so I'm not sure what to make of the general awkward play.
Desperado wrote:
In post 433, Klingoncelt wrote:Unless the hydra runs through the thread screaming "I'm SCUM!!!!" at the top of their lungs, I'll townread them by default.
Seriously guys I'm not lynching anyone else today. Everything Kling says is scum 101.
The 'I'm as clueless as you' thing? I'd rather see Kling attempt to do something in this thread than go off of something that feels LAMIST.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #17) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: Heartless for Rogue Leader
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Post Post #594 (isolation #18) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:38 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 591, Desperado wrote:Here, I've made the words all big so that you can't miss them.
Yeah I'm sorry I didn't write up a goddamn permission slip to vote Cakez
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Post Post #625 (isolation #19) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:49 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 597, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 594, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 591, Desperado wrote:Here, I've made the words all big so that you can't miss them.
Yeah I'm sorry I didn't write up a goddamn permission slip to vote Cakez
The issue is the contradiction, you called out cakez for only mentioning you once before the vote and your vote was the first time you mentioned cakez.
It's not a contradiction. My initial issue with Cakez was he literally DID NOT mention me in his vote, which came in that wall of text spoiler.
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Post Post #627 (isolation #20) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:41 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 377, Aj The Epic wrote:In his own post, he had other places that he looked like he wanted to go and settled with me
But is it really.
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Post Post #793 (isolation #21) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:50 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 788, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I've read a few of her articles and just a lot of her theory on mafia seems very solid. I think she's one of the best players on MS.
I'm sure that's not a reason to autosheep her though.
Nero Cain wrote:
In post 639, SirCakez wrote:I sometimes wonder if Mastina just RNGs her reads and then tries to explain them. That would be funny.
Hey, lets talk theory!

So, as scum, I think that calling a player town is kinda buddying or pocketing to use the new jargon. I think alot of players are stupidly OMGUSY so when a scum player calls another player town then its less of a chance they get voted and I think, atleast subliminally, when a player knows they are town and are being called town they kinda go "Oh hey X is reading me correctly so they must be town too!" This is my first time playing with Mastina but I've played several times with her on the Mastin2 account and I know that she has entered the game in a similar style in the past. Was she scum that game? Town? She likely does this regardless of alignment although she's fairly scummy here.
That's why you look at the REASONS they call you town or shit. I don't think there's really any issue with Mastina's entrance and Mastina will probably show her alignment through her work anyways.
Desperado wrote:@ LUV: It's bad because you are suggesting that AJ as scum would feel pressured to go with the crowd on the Rogue Leader vote when that just isn't true. He doesn't even have to think infinity is scum to justify it either, he just needs to be able to defend what he is declaring as his best townread.

^This is not a risky thing to do as scum and suggesting otherwise is...bad.
And in fact my reason for voting Heartless was neither. I just wanted to see what happens if there was a counterwagon to the rouge leader infinity vote, specifically because I think it was becoming too easy.
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Post Post #907 (isolation #22) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:24 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Hey desp your vote on me sucks. You have one reason in your ISO and I addressed it pages ago. Thanks.
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Post Post #914 (isolation #23) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 909, SirCakez wrote:
In post 874, Infinity 324 wrote:I get the feeling he's posting his original thoughts instead of trying to think about how it would look to others. Especially the part about motive hunting, it just seems like not the best approach to appeal to the group.
Aristo doesn't really think through his posts as scum. He tends to just post stuff. But as town you can usually tell his content is genuine scumhunting and it's not here.

I just ISOed AJ and he hasn't given a read on anyone besides me, and Heartless/Desperado if we're being generous. Which is just laughably scummy. It's how I play as scum sometimes, latch onto a town who's getting wagoned early then ignore the rest of the game unless asked about stuff.
Which is bullshit since I've called infinity town. And please, don't go comparing your scum games to mine. It's rather insulting.
Desperado wrote:Hey AJ,

You still aren't scumhunting, I have more than one reason to be voting you, and you didn't "address it" so much as just changed what you said, which isn't quite the same thing.
I'm observing right now. I'm normally this way anyways... Hell, I could shove the same thing back at you (you aren't scumhunting).

As of right now, my biggest issue is sorting BBMolla. Due to other games, I'm trying to not trip over which one I'm reading. I'm fairly certain this is the game I feel he's more scummy in but sorting them has been a personal issue for a while. That's just one of the reasons that I'm being quiet is because I need to make sure that my own thoughts aren't getting muddled between games at this point.
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Post Post #919 (isolation #24) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:34 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 915, BBmolla wrote:Yo don't talk about ongoing games.
I'm not. Just summarize it as overall confusion with you then.
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Post Post #924 (isolation #25) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:44 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I'm going to contest TTH on this, as I do think he's town. Otherwise, I'm more or less fine with where your first assumptions are (since I believe cakez is scum and think BBMolla may be). Specifically with Molla, I'm going to reread and get a better idea of what specifically has me of this opinion.
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Post Post #934 (isolation #26) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:28 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Does it reveal who through the vote out in the last of the day VC?
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Post Post #935 (isolation #27) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:29 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

*threw
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Post Post #939 (isolation #28) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Why heartless? He's currently my hardest townread.
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Post Post #960 (isolation #29) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 955, SirCakez wrote:Where? I ISOed you and saw nothing.
I guess it wasn't explicitly stated but when Desperado was talking to Uzi about my vote for Rogue leader I responded in post 793:

Spoiler:
In post 793, Aj The Epic wrote:
Desperado wrote:@ LUV: It's bad because you are suggesting that AJ as scum would feel pressured to go with the crowd on the Rogue Leader vote when that just isn't true. He doesn't even have to think infinity is scum to justify it either, he just needs to be able to defend what he is declaring as his best townread.

^This is not a risky thing to do as scum and suggesting otherwise is...bad.
And in fact my reason for voting Heartless was neither. I just wanted to see what happens if there was a counterwagon to the rouge leader infinity vote, specifically because I think it was becoming too easy.


That it wasn't that I felt Heartless was scummy (by context of what Desp suggested) but rather I wanted to vote heartless to see what came of it. If nothing else, the way I've talked to Infinity from like post 255 onward should give it away tonally that I read him as town.

Also speaking of which, in my iso run of yours (was searching side by side to find your own townreads), I see you have a mountain of scum reads. Me, Alban (before replace), titus, TTH, Kling, and Luv. And in 508 you say:
In post 508, SirCakez wrote:I'm waiting until I develop a really solid townread. I don't have a super strong one atm.
Along with some shade tossing towards Aero slot earlier in the game. Got anything for us in terms of townreads? Especially ones that aren't shade tossing at the other end (aka Mastina's)? Like your one explicit town message is 'mastina's reads suck but she's town hurdur'. Funnily PP (mastina's former) was the only explicit townread you had before and your read on her was much the same (derptown). It's a rather condescending end to a read that allows for you to ignore whatever the slot says while townreading them.

And you also have way too many scum reads to actually exist in this game. Even someone like me who focuses on scumreading doesn't even get to the kind of count you have.
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Post Post #980 (isolation #30) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:23 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Dude, just respond to the post. It points out a legitimate contradiction of you won't vote Heartless rogue leader bcuz me nor infinity because shadetossing but damn you'll follow another scumread on your LYNCH vote. FFS is it really that much to ask that you post more than three short lines?
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Post Post #1116 (isolation #31) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:55 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Titus are you still scumreading infinity for shit from like page 2?
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Post Post #1251 (isolation #32) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:58 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1183, Desperado wrote:I could also vote LUV but I'd rather see AJ and/or Cakez flip before I make a determination on that.
Where did the cakez lynch suggest come from? Like you TOWNREAD cakez given your 1027
In post 1027, Desperado wrote:+ The Thinker wagon was started by Infinity and Heartless, the competing top townreads.

Thinker town, AJ scum, Cakez town, scum switching from Cakez to Thinker. Let's see.
Like you're on record tons of times saying "No cakez lynch".
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Post Post #1399 (isolation #33) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:41 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I trust Nacho's read of Ari, sorry. Messed with it last time I played with Ari and was wrong.
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Post Post #1401 (isolation #34) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:46 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Wait, nacho's scumreading Ari...
ight.

VOTE: TTH

Also infinity did you sub in Vedith in your slot while I wasn't looking? Cuz you went from sensible to whatever the last 12 hours has been.

~Unsure who this is for.
Last edited by Firebringer on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1409 (isolation #35) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:06 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

yeah it's the thinker

VOTE: The Thinker

for clarity. Anyways, i had my heartless RL vote from a long time ago.
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Post Post #1489 (isolation #36) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:22 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: Klington

That hammer was actually awful tho
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Post Post #1661 (isolation #37) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:35 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1650, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1599, Infinity 324 wrote:
Spoiler:


The stalling signifies to me that scum were happy with the game state and weren't being wagoned until klingon got traction. Or: none of the wagons were scum and we were just able to lynch thinker at the end due to compromise. But the wagons on pine, AJ, and cakez stood long enough with little enough opposition that I'm comfortable calling them town.
Day 1 VCA is worthless. Please don't waste the bandwidth.
Ain't no reason to discourage someone from spending their time hunting.

Are we meant to believe you actually didn't look at the VC before hammering/didn't know the time remaining? Because I find this incredibly hard to believe in a hammer situation. And if you honestly DID believe time was running short, I'd expect you to blame Infinity, not Desperado, who was far more concerned about wagoning.
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Post Post #1730 (isolation #38) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:54 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1728, BBmolla wrote:also willing to lynch AJ
Glad to have your contributions too. You have my permission to take off the beer goggles whenever.
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Post Post #1735 (isolation #39) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:08 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I don't like letting people get away with hammers that don't follow general policy. It's a recipe for disaster going forward.
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Post Post #1762 (isolation #40) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:57 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1758, Klingoncelt wrote:Have you noticed that I catch up through lots of pages? Sometimes I lose track of vote counts.
That's a lousy excuse. Especially when I do that with replacing, I make sure I either do the VC myself or check a very recent one to avoid this. There's no excuse for a mishammer.
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Post Post #1790 (isolation #41) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:48 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Titus read page 2-3. I don't think Infinity is scum and has Pine buddy him that hard early on.
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Post Post #1797 (isolation #42) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:39 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

There may be a possibility of a backup vig since I don't think this setup allows three NKs to occur in one night.
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Post Post #1799 (isolation #43) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:09 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Ok so that makes sense.

Btw VOTE: infinity for Rogue Leader
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Post Post #1803 (isolation #44) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:23 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1800, Infinity 324 wrote:AJ, your tone has changed significantly from d1, how do you think you can explain that?
It's part of being bad D1.
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Post Post #1808 (isolation #45) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Bad hammer by now-dead Klingoncelt
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Post Post #1816 (isolation #46) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:28 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

If Molla is scum, he's not been turned vanilla. That's all there is to it. The shot might not have been used.
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Post Post #1821 (isolation #47) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:45 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1818, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 1799, Aj The Epic wrote:Ok so that makes sense.

Btw VOTE: infinity for Rogue Leader
?
Pine/Tonic was buddying the shit out of Infinity early.
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Post Post #1823 (isolation #48) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:51 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Still like the idea of getting his role claim to know.
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Post Post #1827 (isolation #49) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Already looked for associations. I didn't see anything other than Luv was probs town, as was infinity. There's very little in the ISO that's useful anymore given who's died. That's my opinion so feel free to look, but I just didn't see anything.
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Post Post #1856 (isolation #50) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:06 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I don't know enough about the crew to say regardless. We don't know what you all have talked about or what roles you get, or even how they're distributed. If you're referring to my vote, I'm just more sure Infinity is town.

With mastin, I noticed it. However my issue is I can't tell if she actually sniped pine out super hard or if it's scum theatre. That's why I said I can't figure it out. Same with Titus, but more so because I'm not unsure the primary objective of that was to tie Pine to Infinity and get on his good graces by some awkward white knight.
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Post Post #1860 (isolation #51) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Absolutely. That's a VERY EASY play, especially compared to having to dig up cases on each other.
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Post Post #1867 (isolation #52) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:35 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1863, Heartless wrote:are you saying that pine and tonic would've been too lazy to make a case and call mastin scum or....

...

what?

No. It IS easier but there's a reason I'd expect this first that's a bit of a different direction. Mainly, doing attacks like this doesn't exactly encourage case building or reviews through ISOs. It's also not necessarily drawing them into the limelight. It's almost a defensive measure where you take it in case one dies. Full on cases may make better 'scum theatre' overall, but it almost guarantees the incrimination of one or both playing. My thought is 'does this look like Mastin/Pine leaving distance between themselves?' Does mastin actually catch Pine like this or does she have prior knowledge? Because I don't see what I expect in town v scum: a long, drawn out fight with one on a complete defensive and losing to compelling evidence.
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Post Post #1874 (isolation #53) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:00 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

You realize, Heartless, that I completely ignored it immediately because it could go EITHER WAY.

Your reasons suck. All there is to it. A.) I've told you my day 1s are bad. B.) have you not realized it's fucking obvious desp dies as one of the rogue leader people? Do you really think I'd go after him first? And the last thing I'm going to do is vanilla someone not in the rogue leader group as that shit is essentially clearing someone.

You're convinced Mastina's town and this is guiding your entire read.
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Post Post #1877 (isolation #54) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Because Nero as often as you call Titus scum, it's impossible for me to actually believe your read on her anymore.
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Post Post #1879 (isolation #55) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:37 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Don't give me that. You realize every game I've ever played with you, at some point you've been trying to strongarm a "Titus is scum" argument somewhere within it. To this point, I haven't see you correct on that call.
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Post Post #1881 (isolation #56) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:07 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

It's not a discredit. You're just gonna have to show me something that isn't in literally every game I play with you for this.
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Post Post #1885 (isolation #57) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:33 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Don't use VLAs in cases. It's bad precedence and highly inaccurate.

I agree it's interesting that titus did eventually choose to acknowledge you, but it may be more the fact that she never felt any real threat from your pressure until today.

predit:

Actually, the game I thought you were in (BBmolla's 190). Granted I was convinced Titus was scum that game.
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Post Post #1886 (isolation #58) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:37 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

So I guess my real question then is why are you selling me on this OMGUS vote when this obviously isn't the start of your scumread for Titus? What about that makes the vote more pertinent to convince me than anything you would've used to initially scum read her.
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Post Post #1890 (isolation #59) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:10 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Basically, consistency. A lot of the reason those other associations you look at that I ignore is a one off is easy enough to fake or just not mean much. He pushed it with purpose of an actual lynch, not just a vanity wagon. And Luv happens to be a rather mislynchable target in most games.
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Post Post #1891 (isolation #60) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:14 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

As for whose scum, I haven't been terribly accurate in any of my recent games. I'm actually tempted to say Mastina, while good, isn't THAT good but I know RVS is actually one of those areas you can pick up a tell in and catch people unaware really easily. Just... Don't think Pine did anything suspicious in RVS. I'm still bothered with Molla to an extent, I want a claim to back up his vanilized talk. Really that's what I'm running off of right now.
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Post Post #1893 (isolation #61) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:57 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

There's not enough current material to be any bit accurate with that.
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Post Post #1895 (isolation #62) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:39 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

It really doesn't... The roles are pretty non-standard this game.
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Post Post #1940 (isolation #63) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:29 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

He tracked Cakez, who didn't move.
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Post Post #1944 (isolation #64) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:57 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

it's a ROGUE crew ability, I think they're 1 shot by night.
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Post Post #1948 (isolation #65) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:26 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah I'm waiting for Mastina a bit. I want to discuss WHAT made her realize Pine was scum from that. If she can explain that, I'd be far more comfortable moving forward. Specifically, Titus.

As it goes, I'm functioning with a lot of townreads right now, but I'm not completely sure it does anything for PoE yet. Aero's too quiet to get a read on. Still mildly interested in Sircakez because he's not really said much worth reading.

Can you explain to me how the Rogue group gets roles? Do you all just choose, or does the RL distribute the roles?
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Post Post #1956 (isolation #66) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:51 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1774, Infinity 324 wrote:Ok so I don't know what mastin was talking about, the cakez wagon started very quickly and died very slowly. (I even skipped some VCs in there, it went on for a while). That, and the lack of attempt at a counterwagon (most notably by pine, but really by anyone) makes me confident cakez is town. Townreading most of the wagon makes me look at LUV and to a lesser extent aj and aero (even though aero was one of the first).
So my main issue is there was a counterwagon that was a bit delayed (mainly me). It just was that Cakez struggled to get any traction for it. I think the lag on it could've been explained by the scum group just not thinking it was going to happen. ''
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Post Post #1959 (isolation #67) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:57 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Were they concerned with popular exposure on a wagon that they didn't think would conclude? Then you also have players like Mastina/Titus who'd just as soon let their buddies die and solo carry than stick their neck out and save them. I've never seen pine play scum so I don't know his play in general. But a lot of the suspects I have (Mastina/Titus/Aero in particular) were either not present or wouldn't save their buddies anyways.
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Post Post #1963 (isolation #68) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:14 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1961, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1951, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1948, Aj The Epic wrote:Can you explain to me how the Rogue group gets roles? Do you all just choose, or does the RL distribute the roles?
Also can you explain the purpose of this question?
No. Just rest assured if I was scum, I wouldn't have to ask.
Nero Cain wrote:If you suspect Titus why the song and dance about not trusting my read or what not?
Can you show me a game where you townread Titus first? I'm reading her scum for reasons completely different than yours, which is one of the main reasons.
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Post Post #1965 (isolation #69) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:19 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

That's not the case. But I'd prefer you to drop it.
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Post Post #1971 (isolation #70) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:02 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1967, Titus wrote:@DP, I am waiting on Infinity's explanation for his rogue leader vote.

@AJ, You have forced a pointless claim from Molla and now you're misrepping my meta to a group of people who have played with me for years. Meta isn't really alignment indicative, but what people say about it is.

Why did you not follow up on BB's claim (unless I missed it)?
Ok so tell me, "Do you help out scum partners in a bad spot?". WRT Molla's claim, I'm tempted to call bullshit on it but scum would need a lot of power to counter this town as it is. Much more than a vanillaizer. I didn't force it either, Molla doesn't trust me in the slightest. He claimed for other reasons most likely. Issue is, it IS possible scum has the power to compare, just unlikely.
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Post Post #1973 (isolation #71) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:17 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

It lists nacho as VT on death when he clearly wasn't, right?
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Post Post #2063 (isolation #72) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:14 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

No, I doubt that. At least, I'd put my eggs elsewhere right now.
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Post Post #2073 (isolation #73) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:24 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Quick question, Mastina. By your logic, everyone in the D1 rogue crew was town, right?

Also I think one reason you can claim Molla's role as scum pretending town is it's negative utility for town or positive utility for scum, just depending on who holds it. It doesn't really shake up the grand scheme setup spec style because of that. If I were to have a positive utility role that overlapped Molla's role, would his be more likely to be scum?
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Post Post #2076 (isolation #74) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:26 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I think flavor fake claims would definitely exist. Not sure about role fake claims. Not seen it in a while where scum get that.
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Post Post #2170 (isolation #75) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:02 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I'm going to just full on claim JailKeeper right here. Character name Mon Mothma. I realize it's not the most productive case but I've too heavily hinted PR the last day to leave you hanging without a continuation to this and especially with infinity's pushing on why I'm interested in Rogue Crew mechanics, I'd like to just come clean with that. My wondering is if I could JK the Rogue leader and have him still distribute abilities. Fire never got back to me, which is making this kinda complicated. My two actions have been JK cakez both nights.

But also off of this I'm not completely confident with Molla's claim in any sense of the word since I am objectively more powerful than him and overlap his role heavily. But I don't know enough about setup to know if this is possible, which is part of my guiding reasons for claiming. Also, me being targeted as a semi-protect or blocker would probably help the town with some random WIFOM issues. I agree it's some really strange fucking gambit to not vanillize anyone (or have hit a VT and maybe saw no reaction...?) but as stated, I'm not entirely comfortable with his claim.

So I'm in agreement with Mastina's assessment with Pine (no other scum were in Rogue Crew day 1) because it makes little to no sense for Pine to use that ability that day. If I'm not mistaken, the remaining Rogue Crew from D1 are Infinity, Heartless, Drunken Piper. Not really hard to townread any of them anyways. This is reinforced by Pine's actions around infinity early D1 (pages 2-3 ish) that strongly suggest that person is town [basis for my crew leader vote].

In post 2159, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.
So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?
See this is kinda puzzling because the OPTIMAL PLAY Pine had was CLAIMING (similar to Nacho and his double voter). Getting the Crew's permission to join probably wouldn't have been insanely difficult and then his role is seen as negative but his actions as pro-town.
In post 2161, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.
This is so scum
Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.
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Post Post #2209 (isolation #76) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:32 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Treating Mastin the same way as pine or infinity, peregrine?
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Post Post #2229 (isolation #77) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:17 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Wasn't that a Rogue Crew ability? Don't those change nightly?
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Post Post #2232 (isolation #78) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:54 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2230, Heartless wrote:wasn't what a rogue crew ability?
DP's track
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Post Post #2276 (isolation #79) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:10 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Two things I hate in mafia: Day 1 and inconsistent reads. And Zefiend, we're in D3.
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Post Post #2326 (isolation #80) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:23 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2324, Infinity 324 wrote:I guess my main issue with molla being scum is why he didn't just claim VT. He'd still know he'd been vanillaized if he really was a VT because of the special power.
Scum!molla doesn't necessarily know if a VT gets a message
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Post Post #2336 (isolation #81) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:01 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: zefiend

I'm fine with this
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Post Post #2342 (isolation #82) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:57 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Are you really that confident about Titus?

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.
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Post Post #2352 (isolation #83) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2344, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2342, Aj The Epic wrote:Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.
I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

Like ok, I can understand the argument that he's fence sitting scum but its just meh since I think that's fairly null. I do kinda like Heartless' thing about him being so quick to rethink his Mastin read but idk...I'm on the fence. Can you guys nom me for a scummy? I think I'm the first scum player with a green pm and that's maybe Kodak moment worthy...
Uh yeah talk to me after you get wagering miller.

I think flailing completely depends on context of when it occurs. I've been known to scum read people who lose their read real fast like Zefiend did but those people also have a trackrecord of getting talked out of reads (so I reconsider that). And normally it's them being talked out of lynching someone, a sign of insecurity in their reads. Zefiend going the other way (bringing a town read into lynch range) is opportunistic. I mean, I think we both are sitting on the same wavelength here but that's where I'm at.

Given your no comment on my claim, I take it you believe a JK and Molla's JOAT are able to exist both on town?
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Post Post #2399 (isolation #84) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:56 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2382, Nero Cain wrote:AJ why did you never give us these reasons that you are scumreading Titus for but are totally different from mine?
Not so much withholding as it never became that pertinent. Whereas you were scumreading for OMGUS at the beginning of today, my issue with titus was almost all of her early d1 discussion was all centered on her and her ability to scumhunt. That and her scumread on infinity had the blinders on so badly that she was considering adjusting reads just to avoid lining up with infinity (452)

Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.
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Post Post #2407 (isolation #85) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:43 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2404, Titus wrote:@AJ, Thank you, but why the fuck did you claim?
A.) Don't trust Molla's claim in light of my knowledge
B.) It helps town in general if I'm killed just to clear that
C.) Wanted to see if I could use it on the Rogue Leader for effective protection.
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Post Post #2602 (isolation #86) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:16 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Titus had a really interesting vote change to me there... Like y'all have known my claim for a couple of days, what the hell was that delayed reaction?
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Post Post #2687 (isolation #87) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:33 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2684, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 2675, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2556, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 2554, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 2399, Aj The Epic wrote: Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.

VOTE AJ
I probably dont need to read anymore,
seeing I didnt get a "no result" on cakez, you whore.

I will continue reading, to see what this is to see.
but unless i was redirected, the next scum has been caught, who wants to thank me?
You were suspicious enough of Sir Cake to do your thing to him, and your wondering why AJ was suspicious enough to jailkeep him? His iso is full of arguing his Cake scumread.

This is some strange ass logic- do you think AJ is bussing Cake?
Night 1 I understand, but there was a kill.
why jail the same person (night 2) when his suspension was Kling? Hard swallowed pill.

also, he just happens to claim to jail keep in the eve
the same person I just happen to see not move AFTER I claim, hard to believe.

also WHY claim, there was no reason too.
it was bizarre and out of the blue.
Kling was the counterwagon to Pine. To me, there was an indication that Kling might still be town. I also submitted my action rather late because I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted out of it. Thought about using it as protection but didn't want to block town roles.

Why claim? It's ALMOST like I explained that already WHEN I CLAIMED.
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Post Post #2697 (isolation #88) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:14 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2692, Nero Cain wrote:but then AJ being shit with his actions does kinda bother me.....
Bruh if I was scum why would I:

Claim JK against someone (either my partner or cleared town...)
Claim a block on someone who DL tracked? I mean, I guess this can be said "oh you know he didn't go anywhere" but w/e.
Double RB the same person in claim or in action, specifically not someone in rogue crew
Reveal at all...

Nero I'm going to say something you'd call heresy: Both you and Titus are town this game. Like Titus' actions recently are fine, and I don't think her and Pine play that way around infinity early D1. Or at least it would be more coordinated to getting Infinity to buy Pine as an ally.
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Post Post #2715 (isolation #89) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:13 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2711, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2697, Aj The Epic wrote:Like Titus' actions recently are fine,
can you go more in depth on this?
Her posting isn't advancing any objective. She's fairly clear on where she's at in the game and even if you disagree with that point, it's not like she's manipulating what she knows. Only thing against this is her recent vote on me but DP did the same thing too.

@DP, I private messaged fire at the start of the day, never got a response.
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Post Post #2720 (isolation #90) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:21 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

DP you're asking shit I can't answer without mod interference.
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Post Post #2726 (isolation #91) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:53 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2721, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 2717, Drunken Piper wrote:
again
explain why you claimed.

still confused and maybe inflamed.
????
In post 2687, Aj The Epic wrote:Why claim? It's ALMOST like I explained that already WHEN I CLAIMED.
Man dude. I can play this game too.
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Post Post #2792 (isolation #92) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:49 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2789, Titus wrote:Now, onto your issue. Zefiend doesn't word vomit as scum from what I have seen.
He just lurks away.
That's using your definition of just quotewalling back. What I see when zefiend replies like that is someone trying to reach out.
Scum zefiend doesn't reach people.
Quote walls supporting points are details. They are not the details you want. If quote walls bother you, tell him to use post tags. If I am right, you should see details and ignore the quotes getting in the way. If I am wrong and he struggles to put two coherent thoughts together, we'll lynch him.

So you're saying he's scum here, right?

Like honestly I see cakez and zefiend both as possible scum but tbh without finishing ONE LYNCH we're not going to see which one was the town wagon and which was counterwagoning scum.
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Post Post #2808 (isolation #93) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:43 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Is there any benefit to carrying on the day? Imo this feels like classical scum v town wagons and there's no new useful information or analysis coming through right now.
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Post Post #2898 (isolation #94) » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:34 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Could've sworn I posted prior to this sorry.

As far as Zefiend's claim, I'm not sure that I care for it but it should at least be verifiable. Not a huge issue with going from him to cakez.
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Post Post #2932 (isolation #95) » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:31 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2924, Heartless wrote:whatever

VOTE: zefiend
Take it you're not really buying his claim?
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Post Post #2973 (isolation #96) » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:48 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

So would you take a cakez wagon if I'd swing the vote?
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Post Post #2999 (isolation #97) » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:44 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: Sircakez

This is L-1


The above is a super regressive discussion of shit that I'm not. Like to claim to edge a possible counterclaim vs BBMolla isn't exactly what I'd try to do as scum.
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Post Post #3016 (isolation #98) » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:36 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Peregrine, why are you wanting to hand off the reigns to DP?
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Post Post #3069 (isolation #99) » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:44 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

So you're saying both wagons are being DRIVEN BY SCUM on TOWN Zefiend and Cakez? And you say Titus moonlogics.
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Post Post #3073 (isolation #100) » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

nero is.
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Post Post #3104 (isolation #101) » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:33 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

nice and outdated last will

VOTE: zefiend
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Post Post #3144 (isolation #102) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:06 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Nero you're making some weirdass moves this game.
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Post Post #3164 (isolation #103) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:09 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3156, Drunken Piper wrote:AJ who did you target last night.
why havent you claimed already, alright?
Straight up forgot to target someone. Was trying to think about it (whether to go after BBMolla, Titus or Zefiend) and just didn't pick.
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Post Post #3168 (isolation #104) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:12 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

You know, if I was actually scum I'd just say I targeted a buddy or something. But have it your way.
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Post Post #3194 (isolation #105) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:14 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Heartless, you don't mind being Jk'd for the rest of the game, right?
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Post Post #3197 (isolation #106) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:23 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

It comes with an all expense paid trip to whereever the fuck my basement is.

Or so I've heard.
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Post Post #3201 (isolation #107) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:34 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3198, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3195, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3171, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3144, Aj The Epic wrote:Nero you're making some weirdass moves this game.
In post 3145, Nero Cain wrote:explain.
Why are you avoiding me AJ?
Because I'm in class/not able to give an elongated answer.
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Post Post #3205 (isolation #108) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:15 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3068, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3051, Heartless wrote:[nero, piper, infinity, mastina, aj]
[titus]
[molla, twie]
null line --> [pv]
[cakez, zefiend]
gut says PV is scum. Still not real sold on cakes and zefiend. Titus and Mastina still seem p scummy to me but we'll see how that goes.
So this coupled with your vote today, and your seemingly stronger suspicion that Titus is scum strike me as strange.

You were talking about having pushed cakez (like less than 100 posts later) and in this post quoted, you're saying you're not sold on either wagon (Zefiend/cakez). When I call you on it (you're saying both wagons are scum driven on town), you said it was a bad reaction. It's really not, I don't think it's possible.

You also out-the-gate vote a JK before even I revealed I hadn't moved. That's a strange move in and of itself. You're talking about Titus being scum though and seem damningly convinced but keep your vote on me. I'm also completely cold on your reason for Titus in the first place.


So I guess I'm not understanding what you're trying to do today.
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Post Post #3307 (isolation #109) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:51 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

What a fucking awkward choice for mailmaning if that's what it is.
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Post Post #3319 (isolation #110) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:34 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah I haven't gotten around to watching Star Wars: The Empire Strike Back yet either
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Post Post #3489 (isolation #111) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:07 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: PeregrineV

L-1
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Post Post #3553 (isolation #112) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: zefiend

Surprising amounts of confidence on who we'd lynch eehhhhhhhh
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Post Post #3572 (isolation #113) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:17 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3557, Nero Cain wrote:AJ who'd you target last night. I want MOI, and Mastina to claim. Then TWIE and Heartless.
JK'd Heartless as said before. I'm going to force Heartless to make it to LYLO or me die first.
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Post Post #3665 (isolation #114) » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Nero, why did you voyuer Heartless when I explicitly stated I would be jailing heartless?
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Post Post #3673 (isolation #115) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:04 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:I don't feel like a guy who spent the first two nights targeting town and then "forgets" to use his action one night and then targets Heartless for F all reason has any room to stand on when fussing at me over the use of my action. And who would I use it on? Molla is effectively a VT and a (Mastina) scum tunnel. TWIE is kinda useless so I didn't see scum really targeting him. ɀefiend is scums mislynch du jour. I wasn't going to target any of them. In hindsight maybe DP would have been a better target. IDK, I had just felt DP was mostly useless and scum were leaving that alone. My new theory is that Heartless is the 4th/5th member of the scumteam and scum are keeping her alive and actively buddying her since they are helping the scum team. My belief here is that scum are you, MOI, and Mastina. You "protected" her to give a plausible explanation for why Antiheart wasn't shot at over a lurky DP.


Desp thought AJ was scum and I think he was wary of Titus. I was wondering why Infinity was shot over DP and Heartless but I think he was more wary of Mastin then those two. After DP helped mislynch PV he had outlived his usefulness so the scum shot him over Heartless b/c he was scumreading Mastina.


Why would a presumably town you publicly announce their target and thus tell scum who to not shoot at?

Thoughts on Mastins claim and MOIs use of his action plox.

"I guess looking back I should've used in on DP"

You. Don't. Say. If Heartless died last night, that would've been an instant lynch on me. How are you giving me shit for night actions when you super blundered that shit? Sircakez got lynched because he looked scum, it's not like there's a fucking surprise that I'm JK'ing him.

So you're now on this 'heartless/Aj team' bullshit out of nowhere. Why don't you do something productive other than manufacturing bullshit scumreads. Your reads are so incredibly inconsistent that I'd be more stunned if you actually had townreads at this point in the game.
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Post Post #3678 (isolation #116) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:26 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:You "protected" her to give a plausible explanation for why Antiheart wasn't shot at over a lurky DP.
Nero, this suggests heavily otherwise. Any scum is going to read what went on yesterday and decide it's at the very least too much WIFOM to make the kill on.

If you're wondering why I chose Heartless over DP it's because DP's role was suspect as shit to me.
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Post Post #3679 (isolation #117) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:28 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3677, Nero Cain wrote:
@AJ
In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:Why would a presumably town you publicly announce their target and thus tell scum who to not shoot at?

Thoughts on Mastins claim and MOIs use of his action plox.
1.) Because it SHOULD help town coordinate more 1 shot actions.

2.) Can't be worse than yours. Loved isn't a terribly important 1 off give and I'd rather it off the table anyways. Especially if MoI was in lylo.
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Post Post #3681 (isolation #118) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:32 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I think it's funny you think that you spelled out any sort of town read. This just looked like an addition to your continuation of bad reads.
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Post Post #3684 (isolation #119) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:46 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Oh so you're worried that he's not directly supporting his town reads

What's there to make of Mastina's claim? It can't be much more vague or less indicative to alignment.

In theory, me blocking Heartless would encourage other PR's to use watcher shots/protective abilities elsewhere since I was declaring responsibility for the protection.

P-edit: Nero, PoE reads are a fucking cop out and you know it.
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Post Post #3686 (isolation #120) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:02 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

So do you believe Zefiend is town outside of PoE? Aka are you believing that unlike early wagons in this game, we came out with a double town wagon day 3?
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Post Post #3723 (isolation #121) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3716, Heartless wrote:I'm unsaturated.
Well at least you're slightly healthier when consumed.
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Post Post #3724 (isolation #122) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Wait nvm you're like pure cholesterol
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Post Post #3727 (isolation #123) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:47 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

You're really high on Zefiend.
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Post Post #3729 (isolation #124) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:11 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

....This is obvious, isn't it?

Hard town. I'm valuing their life over mine at the moment.
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Post Post #3731 (isolation #125) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:27 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I didn't think to use my ability defensively until recently, mostly because I wasn't sure what other PRs were in play.
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Post Post #3742 (isolation #126) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Well you've been roughly adamant that it was a double town wagon between cakez and Zefiend, which i'm fairly certain isn't true.
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Post Post #3744 (isolation #127) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:19 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yes because my belief is one of you is scum and a 1 for 1 is a fine trade.
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Post Post #3746 (isolation #128) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:21 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

hooo boy look at you trying to shade some shit in here and hope that Zefiend doesn't find the rope.

Explain to me how town misses so badly to have counterwagons going town and town day 3 after knocking out scum. Scum has less influence to know a wagon away, so you're acting like the town just picked two people both equally scummy and missed on both.
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Post Post #3760 (isolation #129) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:17 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3747, Nero Cain wrote:but lets talk more about 1v1s. You claimed b/c you don't think that your and Mollas role can't exist together. Why did you never go after him?
Part of my claim was to ask the rogue crew if knowing their power, Molla made sense with his claim and mine both in the game. Why I didn't pursue that is mostly because most of the rogue crew figured it was possible for Molla's role to exist in conjunction to mine and even DP's.

As for Zefiend, his reads are so incredibly generic and for someone who is a technical veteran, he's felt maybe more lost than me. That's really not supposed to be possible, I am one of, if not THE, worst large player on site considering experience.

So when I see this:
In post 3701, ɀefiend wrote:No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.

mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.

VOTE: MOI
Bullshit. This is appeasement, no one should ever have the exact same reads and even town who gets wagoned is going to understand they've got to do a better analysis being town than "yeah they voted me". "And other townies" is used in his post, but in fact he doesn't do anything different from you for town reads: POE. PoE is a FUCKING COP OUT. Say it with me. That is the scum 101 way to have another lynch after the winds change.

Oh and speaking of winds changing....
In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:The feeling when {Infinity, SirCakez, mastina} are unironically the scumteam. Wow.
Wow indeed. Unperturbed by his complete whiffs, he develops two new reads to replace the ones that died.

Oh and...?
In post 2942, ɀefiend wrote:Now this post gives me pause.

Maybe Cakez/Infinity/BBMolla?
Oh no! BBMolla was magically dropped from the scum reads in his nonsense 3 man scum assumptions. Which btw is funny because how the fuck does he keep assuming three?

Then this:
In post 3743, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 3742, Aj The Epic wrote:Well you've been roughly adamant that it was a double town wagon between cakez and Zefiend, which i'm fairly certain isn't true.
Says the guy who had equal nonchalance in wagoning both of us...
Just ignores that I scumread Cakez most of day 1 and was really unimpressed with both aero and zefiend's play on that slot. Zefiend and Aero both only ever had super uncontroversial reads and never pushed the boundaries for anything more than that. And there was zero unique things about those reads, just "Hey I think they're town for reasons town has openly stated they're town for".


There's actually a solid lack of townreading ANYONE in Zefiend's iso.
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Post Post #3763 (isolation #130) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:16 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Heartless, do you have any reason to suspect MOI over Zefiend or care what order?
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Post Post #3772 (isolation #131) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

You're stating the fucking obvious Nero, I said two days ago I didn't care who flipped.

I've never had a hard scumread on Titus. I don't get why you're implying as much. My issue is it's hard to get an independent read on something when the only shit I hear you spew for 4 days is "oh yeah Titus/MOI is scum".

And yes I appealed to the rogue crew because
I don't know their abilities
so they'd be better able to judge it with a more full setup knowledge. Jesus it's fairly obvious to that point. Also I don't know individual nuances of setup and how they affect game design (I've never modded), just general power level differences.

Honestly I don't have a TWIE read because he's been so off the radar and unimportant. I'm running on a BBmolla town assumption due to the small VT roles that would've been given away if a vanillizer was used on them. So scum either wasted a night and did nothing for a gambit that was fairly low reward or actually used their power, which is far more likely. I still think Mastina's town.

I don't have a hard read on MOI either way. As stated above, hard to do when one of the most active players is a one track mind and won't even respond to the one seemingly-town post Moi had (specifically on you).
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Post Post #3775 (isolation #132) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:22 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »



I like the arguments against Nero and felt that Nero not addressing more of it was sad.
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Post Post #3791 (isolation #133) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:29 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3780, Heartless wrote:
In post 3775, Aj The Epic wrote:

I like the arguments against Nero and felt that Nero not addressing more of it was sad.
do you? what about them?

i think they're a loose collection of things that are supposed to be "incriminating" but don't really make a good cohesive narrative. is the point that nero was making a concerted effort to sabotage the pine wagon? bc i'm not really buying into that. the "chainsawing" we're supposed to assume here looks a lot more like an artifact of nero tunneling mastin.
Nero was already heavily focused on Titus either D1 or D2 so I don't think he's limited in tunneling this game. Whether unlucky for nero or as a teammate, I thought it was a valid point that Nero had actively been against the Pine lynch at times where it was possible to stop the wagon. I do understand there are some overlap issues between mastina actually being a MOI townread and Mastina being used as town to advance MOI's push. However, I want to focus this post because I thought Nero should've responded to it in some meaningful way where he didn't really acknowledge the points at all.
In post 3779, Nero Cain wrote:
@AJ
how is Z having the same reads as me a scumtell but MOI having the same reads as you a null tell?
MOI doesn't have the same reads as me. I'm scumreading Zifiend and trying to decide if I believe you or MOI more.
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Post Post #3797 (isolation #134) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3794, Nero Cain wrote:
@AJ
In post 3776, Nero Cain wrote:what did Titus/MOI do to get your read of said slot downgraded to null? And why null and not town?
In post 3777, Nero Cain wrote:I'm curious, how are you null reading him if you believe he's found and is pushing two scum.

Also what do you think of him stating that one of you or TWIE was scum on the Thinker wagon?
Like I said, I'm trying to figure out if it's you or MOI that's scum. I think one of the two of you are.
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Post Post #3822 (isolation #135) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Nero you're going in circles. I've stated before and after the lynch I felt ONE OF Zefiend and Cakez was scum and would be okay lynching either. I think Infinity also shared that sentiment.
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Post Post #3826 (isolation #136) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:14 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3823, Nero Cain wrote:ok kool. Why shouldn't I think that's chain lynching?
I mean, it is. However, you're spending a lot of time trying to explain something that I've been very open about. I think in a case of competing wagons it's justifiable to have that opinion that one is a scum counterwagon.
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Post Post #3831 (isolation #137) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:31 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Sure but that assumption then requires not only me to change my opinion of MOI but you to change yours of Zefiend, Nero.
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Post Post #3832 (isolation #138) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:33 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Is it possible that TWIE is lurksacking the final slot as scum and making it nice and clean here?
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Post Post #3834 (isolation #139) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:43 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

That's a relatively mundane response to being called scum.
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Post Post #3836 (isolation #140) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:35 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

But I would expect your answer to be more close to "bugger off, I'm town."
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Post Post #3877 (isolation #141) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:41 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I mean I probably would never have suggested to Heartless that I was going to protect them to lylo as scum.

@Heartless, I'm not going to care which order MOI/Zefiend goes, but I also don't normally make anything of sudden appearances/disappearances due to not knowing RL situations. I guess I'm just seeing Zefiend try to hide behind Nero hard and it feels like Nero probably wouldn't take such an indefensible spot as scum. Like there are too many odd slips and mistakes in my play for me to not have revealed if I was scum. Also I am unfortunately noticeably cleaner as scum. Nero doesn't really know the second from experience but the first is sort of apparent. And of course I'm continuing a running assumption that one of MOI/Nero is scum.

P-edit: Nero, if there's only two scum, scum's remaining roles are probably investigation-based or counter roles like strongman/ninja.
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Post Post #3922 (isolation #142) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:10 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: MOI

This day's gone on long enough anyways and we can get Zefiend tomorrow.

L-1 I think
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Post Post #3931 (isolation #143) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Man you're just missing the forest for the tree.
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Post Post #3940 (isolation #144) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:04 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3932, BBmolla wrote:
In post 3922, Aj The Epic wrote:VOTE: MOI

This day's gone on long enough anyways and we can get Zefiend tomorrow.

L-1 I think
It's probably MYLO isn't it?
Yeah but I'm the literal resurrection of christ so we'll have a tomorrow even if somehow this is a townie.
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Post Post #3952 (isolation #145) » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:55 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Would you like to discuss Zefiend first, Heartless?
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Post Post #3971 (isolation #146) » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:08 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Molla was unable to make that kill.
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Post Post #3978 (isolation #147) » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:11 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 3975, Heartless wrote:
In post 3971, Aj The Epic wrote:Molla was unable to make that kill.
In post 3972, Heartless wrote:hm....

an unconventional nk for zefiend
Come on guys, use your heads.
In post 1901, BBmolla wrote:1- shot Deflect, 1-shot Redirect, 1-shot Rolestop
You think he saved 1shot deflect until N5? We know he didnt have redirect left as he would've just used it a night before and killed you when I stated I was going for the protect. I feel the more likely Molla!scum scenario is simply partner made kill. TBH I'm not sure how a deflect works but I didn't get any notification outside the norm on the happenings of the jailkeep.
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Post Post #4018 (isolation #148) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:15 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Just thinking that I still don't think Zefiend is a bad lynch here. Like for a character 'boost' ability to exist, you would expect more information on what a boost is in the role (does it give more shots? Does it modify the actual role) and zefiend's use of it kinda sucks. I don't want to lynch Mastina today, I think MOI was setting Mastina up by not using loved on her. And I think with this reveal, 3 man scum is more likely so we should expect Molla to not be scum either. TWIE or zefiend imo.
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Post Post #4020 (isolation #149) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:20 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

If I really cared for your opinion in this game, I'd be offended. However at this point only Heartless' opinion is relevant.
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Post Post #4023 (isolation #150) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:28 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: Zefiend

L-1
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