Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Prism]

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

[Prism]

I know 0 about Pine or camn but even if I did I'm not playing based off speculation. Scum has a clear advantage in the WIFOM game. I'm sure Pine drafted a subjective allstar, who we'll nail easily after mislynching the other two or three. Speculate if you think it helps but I'm playing this as I would any other game. Chances are, however many times it'd take you to guess the team is about the same number it'd take RNG on average to get the team.

First instinct is that drealm is town based off his reason to not be picked, but I'll doublecheck the meta in a day or two. This isn't really a read question but more out of curiosity:

pine made a huge mistake letting nacho and prism team up I think

Why? This is funny because me/Nacho are about to start a game as a hydra but first I don't know if you knew that and second I'm not sure how you came to any conclusion about me/camn or me/Nacho as I've played with neither before. Your game with me was my second ever game; this is my third.

[Prism]

pine made a huge mistake letting nacho and prism team up I think

Did you just say these two were on the same team?

I question the intent of this post. I didn't give the post link in my quote. You found the original post, where it clearly speculates a possible draft.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

[Prism]

Can you explain why he is obvscum, without using the point I just made?

[Prism]

I take it back, sometimes the WIFOM game is worth playing. If this guy keeps posting at this rate I might get the scumteam without reading a single other person.

[Prism]

If you're worrying that you've already ratted out the whole team, have no fear, I'm talking about Pine.

[Prism]

I still fail to see how you quote the post, by actually using the button, without seeing the speculative draft immediately above it.

Yeah, good luck with that. There's a reason I'm in this position.

So, Miss* Magic Reads, what do you think so far?

*Presuming due to feminine avatar, no pronoun listed.

I think I'm going to crush you.

[Prism]

Votes now count.

VOTE: Real Gin N Tonic

I really like BTD6's #115 and think he's likely to be town. I like drealm's recent posts a lot less because they're noticeably different from Evoker. I don't know how to feel about #126

Part of me wants to vote mastina or SAJ instead but I'm not accepting Gin N Tonic answering me with something wholly irrelevant an acceptable explanation.

My first hydra slip, before it's even started a game.

[Prism]

If mastina has any good points whatsoever they're being completely lost. I'm pretending the past 5 pages don't exist unless your name is Aeronaut.

[Prism]

That might change when I get some sleep since I've been going for about 48 hours, but right now I'm staring at these posts that appear to be at least 90% nothing and skipping them entirely.

[Prism]

My vote apparently didn't count since camn hadn't announced it so I'm going to put this back up as a placeholder.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

[Prism]

And lastly, drealmer and Mastina are town

I'm still catching up since yesterday and mulling over a few things but I'd love to hear why you think drealm is town, because I've been going back and forth in my mind all of yesterday/today.

As far as me being your #1 pick as scum, that may be true for you, but do you want to see how much Pine knows about me?

I take it back, sometimes the WIFOM game is worth playing. If this guy keeps posting at this rate I might get the scumteam without reading a single other person.

Yeah, good luck with that. There's a reason I'm in this position.

So, Miss* Magic Reads, what do you think so far?

*Presuming due to feminine avatar, no pronoun listed.

You can argue WIFOM all day long here, but two things are on display here: 1. Pine read none of my games 2. Pine's pride clearly took a hit.

[Prism]

No, the good part is when you lose, your dreamteam gets smashed, and at least part of it will be your fault.

[Prism]

You first.

[Prism]

Admission was nice but what I'm really looking for here is the reasoning behind the drealm read.

[Prism]

Score's 1-0 in my favor Pine, regardless of what Nacho is. Your turn.

[Prism]

@camn:

Before the game, Pine was given his choice of his team's scumroles. He has DAYTALK as well.

This is a bit unclear. Does scum have daytalk, or were you just stating that Pine has the ability to speak?

[Prism]

Go ahead and treat me to the thorough.

[Prism]

You know, I don't really like Monokuma much at all. The gimmick, while endlessly entertaining, is a pain to read for alignment just because

all of it

is by necessity fabricated. That said, they're voting Gin and Fate, and I can get on board with both of those. I don't think I've read a Cakez post so that's one up in the air.

I really like Vax's posts on this page and think they're town.

[Prism]

Now Vax's posts on last page. C'est la vie.

[Prism]

Getting careless, Monokuma.

[Prism]

I don't have time to catch up today but people are going to have to start explaining these townreads on drealm. I don't see it at all.

[Prism]

I've got time in like 5 hours so expect some more from me then. In the meantime nobody appears to have any idea what the fuck they're doing with Pine so just cut it out and play mafia, you're like the people who insist on playing hustlers in Central Park. Your strength is playing mafia not WIFOM.

[Prism]

Like yes there's ways to beat the hustlers but "I BET PINE PICKED NACHO AND FATE AND PRESIDENT BUSH AND THE STONE IS UNDER THE RIGHT CUP" is not one of them.

[Prism]

Just a heads up, I'm most likely not going to be able to contribute much until probably Saturday.

Nacho flattery will get you nowhere but just as a heads up, that was the worst scumgame I've played in close to 3 years.

[Prism]

The bigger thing is that it requires me to read mastina's posts. While I love mafia and want to appreciate the efforts of others, I would probably get more marginal benefit from and finish sooner if I spent the time I would spend on Mastina's posts on reading the tax code instead.

[Prism]

Monokuma you were doing great up until that last post, ew.

[Prism]

Oh I'll vote with you.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

[Prism]

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

It was also a trollvote. Thanks for another town, Pine.

[Prism]

Early game scumread for posts I currently can't recall, for now a placeholder.

Nacho vote's purpose was to mess with him and see what happened.

[Prism]

Your pride is really hurting you here Pine.

You ever seen the episode of Fresh Prince with Uncle Phil and the pool shark? I'm Uncle Phil. Don't let the hustler get hustled.

[Prism]

Prism.

You don't know me.

I am your worst fucking nightmare.

It's posts like these, which are so transparently for other people to read and not me, that make the other interactions more clearly legitimate.

[Prism]

Fun, but I find some of it useful.

I've just got awkward 5 minute slots of downtime.

[Prism]

I am and will, but I will not use them as part of my argumentation.

[Prism]

Not really, you said yourself that Pine's words mean nothing to you. I can do my best to see through Pine, and even do so correctly, but unless I know other people will see the same thing I will, yelling "Look!" is more likely to confuse.

[Prism]

VOTE: Monokuma

Now I'll join you, Nacho. And Monokuma-I told you you were being careless.

[Prism]

This has exploded since the last time I was able to check in but I'm here, rereading, and ready to rock.

Biggest things I'm looking for are Vax/Monokuma if anyone thinks they have anything you think is convincing on either.

[Prism]

Pretty soon Mastina is going to have to start playing mafia instead of whatever the hell you can call what they're doing.

Is there a reason you didn't join onto the bearwagon(tm) after the post that you deemed awful / nacho asking? Because that Gin vote is still from RVSish?

I couldn't remember why I scumread Gin but remembered having something I thought was compelling. Looking at his ISO I couldn't remember it, and thus moved my vote. Looking back on my own, as in right now, it was what I said in #82. I don't really find it that compelling anymore and think he's far and away the best poster of the past 7-8 pages.

My votes on Nacho and Monokuma were both mostly reaction tests, I didn't really get what I wanted out of either and that's okay. I'm not really sold on either.

At the point of catchup I thought Fate and drealm were both mafia, but now I'm not sure. My first impression of drealm's #1011 and #1018 was that he was bussing somebody, but now after staring at it for awhile longer I'm unsure. That said, drealm's posting has been atrocious all game and I still never got any real explanation as to why anyone townread him. Nacho's #655 was unconvincing to me, I got a town lean from the start but little else since. I've had the opposite experience with a town drealm than what I've had this game.

Fate's entire interaction with Monokuma is a trainwreck. If your name isn't Fate, and you can read the last 4-5 pages and say to yourself, "Yeah Monokuma is definitely mafia, 99% sure" then let me know. If you can't, you'll see my point. This just seems like an awkward attempt to fit some perceived townmeta of himself.

VOTE: Fate

[Prism]

I'm going to go ahead and prod dodge today but I should have a fair chunk of time again tomorrow.

[Prism]

Phone posting. I see we're getting close to the deadline so it's time to step my game up. I'll be back from work/appointments in about 7 hours and then it's showtime.

Real fast:

Aristo, Monokumo, and prism on what they think about mastina

I'm not reading mastina and I'm not going to. I tried and got exactly 0 helpful posts and 0 towntells and wish I had just spent that time on other games or on reading all 902 pages of the Affordable Care Act, because I think it honestly might have been more fun.

[Prism]

Congratulations for claiming at L-3 mastina.

Great timing as well with the "What has Prism done?" as a push on me,

right after I announced that it would change in approximately 7 hours

.

Hop on me for it while you can I suppose.

As far as not reading you goes, I've tried. It was awful. I stopped. The plain, simple truth is that whatever wisdom you're spewing out, if any, in these 1000+ word text blocks, are being lost by your own failure to trim them down. I'm down to play mafia. 9/10ths of your post aren't playing mafia. It's like reading

War and Peace

, except without the literary value. I'm not an alt, I've never even heard of you before this game. To be blunt, I don't care about you or others' opinion of you or your opinion of yourself. I know when I spend my time reading 1000+ words of yours, I can get 5-6x the benefit out of using that

same amount of time

on doing a reread of someone else.

You want me to listen to you instead of focusing on reading other people? Sure, I can do that, but you've got to make it worth my while. Right now it's not even close to worth it, because I can just ignore you and solve the game without you.

As I said in my last post, I'm free now and have been planning on going hard tonight all day. Don't blame try to blame the surge of content as a reaction to your post, because I'm winning this thing without you.

[Prism]

For objective facts which may or may not be relevant, you can also add in:
-I have more game history with Pine than any other player here.
-I have significant game history with Nacho.
-I have quite a bit of game history with many other players in this game.
-I am considered by many players to be a very significant player on mafiascum. People think I'm good. People think it so much that they have a higher expectation of me than I am realistically able to deliver.

All of that and you still are managing to misvote all on your own because of your own hyperinflated ego. And you wonder why I refuse to read it.

P-Edit: Will answer after I eat.

[Prism]

Actually I'll excuse myself and bring it to my desk. 15 minutes.

[Prism]

@Fate:

Vote is for a combo thing but the biggest reasons are 1) Monokuma vote/overconfidence is awful and overplayed 2) Interactions with Nacho are awkward as hell, ex. #945. It's complete bullshit, you weren't reaction testing, you saw better chances by not pushing him. I really encourage someone to read this and try to take this account of events seriously.

Having now glanced over your posts since, I'm definitely keeping this.

Shit like this is

awful

:

I'm a much better lynch than mastina for anyone who wants to switch and make somethign happen before deadline

and is a trademark scum post.

You can't tell me that you can read this and honestly think to yourself "Yeah, I think Fate really wants to get lynched over mastina here. He really believes it's better." Maybe mastina will buy it but god knows nobody else should.

Your reaction to me just now is also awful but I didn't want to include it in the sentence because that post is in another awful category entirely.

[Prism]

The point I'm getting at here is that every player in the game has said they are reading my posts and trying to do something with them.
Every player, except Prism.
And it doesn't even begin to factor in the subjectivity of my claim to be a very important part of the game.
The simple fact is, Prism is ignoring me, and is either an alt or someone who has mastered the old perception of me that veteran players used to take, to ignore me if for no other reason on policy alone, because surely the words of mastina, the wallposter mastina, the infamous mastina, is someone not worth paying attention to, who says a lot of meaningless shit and nothing of importance. That's the attitude Prism is displaying and that's the attitude old veterans would display to me, but it's NOT the attitude a new player displays to me.

Have you considered, for even

one second

, that the reason I and apparently a lot of veteran players do this is because there are real, tangible benefits to doing so?

I

feast

off of players like you as mafia. I would be eating you fucking alive if I was scum and encouraging you all the way, because at the end of your tunnel made of 70,000 words I got so little benefit I earnestly feel I would have been better off with nothing. This is not a feeling you want a town player to have about your posts,

ever

. My posts were not simply to put you down for the sake of it, they were to outline a clear goalpost that would lead to me being more willing to work with you: make whatever posts you make at least somewhat relevant or worth reading, and have them be useful, and don't make me dig through 10 paragraphs to find

the

single useful sentence. You have categorically failed in this the entire way, and what is the response you've gotten as a result?

The evaluation that your posts do more harm than good for me. When someone who loves and adores mafia, someone who's

not even lazy in their play

(and since you respect Nacho's opinion so much, you can have him verify that one), actually makes the conscious decision that they will get more benefit out of rereading an ISO of Monokuma or Gin N Tonic for the third time that week instead of reading your posts for a second or even first time, the problem is with you.

P-Edit:

@Fate:

I'll take "Why is Prism scum?" for 500, Fate as my first category. Let's tango.

[Prism]

Monokuma, specifically Nahdia, read on me. Now. Go.

[Prism]

That leaves the pool at: Jin/BTD6/Prism. Jin is a lurker, and people resist lurker lynches.
BTD6 is a lurker, and people resist lurker lynches.
Prism was therefore the one I chose to pressure.

And believe me this wasn't an easy choice; I might change my mind yet. But it was a decision I needed to make.

Then you get into what Prism has done.
What has Prism done?
Can you answer me even that much?

Prism may have a recent V/LA of some sort in effect, would have to check for how long and starting when and when it ends, but the fact is, prior to that point, what did Prism do? Prism had a strong early start, sure, pushing Gin-N-Tonic. But other than that, they've done basically nothing. And even their Gin push was weaker than some of the other members of the wagon there.

I know, I could be shooting myself in the foot for reneging my early townread there. But if I don't see Prism produce something worthwhile, I'm not going to be so sorrowful about it.

Holy cognitive dissonance.

P-Edit: You're not getting off that easily. Not even close.

[Prism]

Monokuma, specifically Nahdia, read on me. Now. Go.

No no no, you don't get to do that! You're playing with Monokuma, not Nahdia. The whole is more than the sum of its parts, buster!

Great, answer it Monokuma.

Account slip.

[Prism]

woah, fate, that post was kind of towny

I actually agree (I'm working on rereading Cakez now so that might change with additional context) and the unvote on me was unexpected. Fate doesn't seem like the type of player to think he's bitten off too much to chew as scum and back off, which makes it a weird post to evaluate.

P-Edit: Can you explain why?

[Prism]

I don't care if you're 3/3 and writing down the Holy Bible itself. Its value is subjective, because

I

am the one that has to read evaluate it, and it's worthless to me if I have to wade through an ocean of mud to get to

your singular view of the game

when I can just build a bridge, drive over the ocean, and get basically everything I need just the same.

You can be shitting solid gold in the middle of those posts for all I care.

[Prism]

That post is really all you need to see that you have an ego.

[Prism]

Nah, that's the furthest I'm going into it, no worries.

[Prism]

Drealm do you actually think Mastina made that claim as scum? Do you have any other big reads? I'm having a hard time seeing that Mastina push, and your play this game is still miles from Evoker. If I had to pick a vote that wasn't Fate right now it'd be you.

[Prism]

Rereading your ISO I think your reads on Fate/Gin aren't the worst (though I'm not confident in either of them at all), and I could buy the early mastina scumread, but the continued push is pretty bad.

[Prism]

mastina I'm just saying I lied and have read literally every post, every word, and was just nudging you towards a goalpost that would be more helpful to me, and have made several allusions to the fact that I have done this.

The amount of use I've gotten out of them, in particular the last post towards me, #1357, and even the last like 7, is literally 0 other than the claim. Not even just figuratively. I actually regret reading them. Even now, I was already planning on putting in a ton of effort today, and now I'm spending it on this circus. This is really the last post you're getting out of me, if you address a question to me later you'll get a response but I feel as though literally none of this is helpful to me in any way. It feels like I'm talking to a wall while simultaneously trying to count the grains of sand on a beach, and I'm just getting frustrated in the process. I have a lot more to say, about how you're being blind to X Y and Z, but it would help nothing, so I'm stopping here.

This is a more than a bit insulting, so I'll apologize for that, but it's earnestly how I feel, and how I feel I can best contribute to winning. I'm not going to continue to spend time that I continue perceive as entirely wasted. I'm going to refocus and contribute to winning the game the best way that I can-and that involves now

actually

ignoring you completely.

[Prism]

Ignoring is something only scum benefit from.

yeeeeeeeeee

Except for when I've clearly outlined exactly why this is beneficial.

Hey Prism, I've ignored all your posts. I think your scum lolz

You see how stupid that sounds?

No seriously I haven't read any of your posts in the last couple pages but your scumzzzz so I'm ignoring you.


LALALALLALALALALALA "I can't hear you!"

*sticks fingers in ears and tongue pointing at you*

This would make sense if I ever made any comment as to mastina's alignment at all, except I never did (Hint: I've always assumed they were town) until they claimed where I've made it clear I believe them.

Stick to sober posting.

[Prism]

I am definitely a mafiascum veteran, having completed a grand total of 2 games.

[Prism]

I think people that aren't named mastina really need to look at what I'm actually saying here. I'm not saying I'm ignoring mastina out of laziness or that it's impossible to glean alignment from their posts. It's that whatever effort is expended doing that, I can likely get 2x-5x the payout from diverting it elsewhere. It's fundamentally

not worth it.

[Prism]

So, just not worth reading is your verdict then?

In comparison to other players, correct, I'm currently working on rereading Nacho and Vax. Offensive? Yes, but extremely pragmatic.

[Prism]

Lets get rid of lurker slot

VOTE: SAJ

How'd you go from me being scum, and having all of these points against me that you couldn't post, and agreeing with Mastina here that I couldn't be doing this as town, to pushing a lurker lynch?

[Prism]

Your not worth my time and energy. Going for the lurker lynch. Just being pragmatic about it is all

Well, okay.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

[Prism]

Even if you're drunk I'd still imagine lynching the mafia to be the most pragmatic approach of all, so persuading others to join you on voting me might assist you in getting that lynch through.

[Prism]

Someone's salty I use their arguments against them. Learn to not insults players and I wont use your own words against you.

Respect every player, regardless of how much they type. I'm sorry, I'm a little fucking heated about it. It's a dick move.

Last ~7 posts I've made it clear that I think I went too far and tried to phrase it in the least offensive way I can, as well as move on from the subject. I've already apologized for the comments that went overboard, and even for the fact that I feel this way about mastina's posts to begin with. As for voting you, I did that to get you to elaborate on the vote, which you did slightly, so thank you.

I'll make myself crystal clear: I just want to win. If you want to think I'm Satan made real, just out to demean others and flex my internet ego, that's perfectly okay with me and I even understand. I'm not going to get angry or salty about it. I got tangled up in an ego war which helped no one, and it was largely my fault. My point right now is that it's a circus. I'm not interested in continuing it. Trying to fight me on it just perpetuates it.

Your post (We're not lynching mafia today so let's lynch a lurker) implies that you lack confidence in the read on me. Your posts give the impression that you think my ignoring mastina is more likely to come from mafia. You said earlier that you had more against me that you couldn't post yet. My question for you is twofold: 1) What town motivation do you see in my ignoring mastina that causes the lack of confidence in your scumread on me? 2) What were the other negatives you had in mind on me from before?

[Prism]

Looking back it looks like I just apologized for feeling that way to begin with, so mastina I'm sorry that I was too abrasive to start. As I said before, in beginning posts this was purposeful to nudge you in the direction I wanted your posts to go, but I definitely crossed the line starting some point in the last few pages.

[Prism]

It's fine and I understand how you feel. My comments to you were just trying to get back on track. Thanks for stepping away for a bit and I look forward to hearing more from you tomorrow.

[Prism]

I honestly can't wait for Nacho to get back, because he knows exactly what just happened, and it's pretty funny. It's staying between us for now.

[Prism]

Nacho in return I'm going to pinky promise I'm town.

[Prism]

Nacho it looks like I don't need it anyway so it's okay.

I'll try to have a vote up tonight.

[Prism]

@Nacho:

I want your reaction to me/mastina. What you think it means for my alignment and why.

[Prism]

Yes.

I find it

highly

unlikely you thought it wasn't worth commenting on. You might even say it's rather familiar.

[Prism]

I don't think I can tell you more without beating you over the head with it, your answer here is NAI which is not what I was hoping for.

[Prism]

I gave you one wink, I have you two, I can't give you a third.

[Prism]

I think you're town anyway but I don't like to underestimate my opponent.

Answer is I did exactly the same play in Podoboq's game. Boring.

[Prism]

Also, if you're not going to live that long, I imagine you would want to get a read on me as soon as you can.

Scratch that, you actually might not be town.

[Prism]

SAJ should have been replaced already, they're playing less mafia than Mo Williams is playing basketball.

[Prism]

Hey, if you're willing to take me claiming scum to you as hard null rather than scum/town, I'll take it.

[Prism]

Alright I'm slipping back into taking avenues that I think will be fascinating rather than ones that actually help us out, so I'll stop now.

[Prism]

I mean, it couldn't have been that blatant since I had to spoil the answer.

[Prism]

I concur that it's a postgame conversation, as I said I have a tendency to opt for the personally fascinating over useful. After 7 years taking the same paths gets old, you know? I just couldn't resist that last shot.

Anyway I get the feeling you realize I'm town if you are, even if you won't admit it, so let's rock some shit later tonight.

[Prism]

Mine was still just to prompt more from you and wasn't serious at all. It's just chilling there now until I get home and can actually ISO people.

[Prism]

Brother I've got some bad news for you called "I haven't slept in 2 days" but I'll see what's in the tank.

[Prism]

Monokuma this is a pretty awful gimmick.

You're not going to get townread for doing basically the same thing I did last night, no matter how you slice it.

[Prism]

Time's up, let's rock and roll until I pass out on top of my desk.

[Prism]

If I go to sleep, I won't give a read.

These are literally the only times I can

really

play.

So shut the fuck up and let me do this.

[Prism]

Problem of Monokuma: Everything before their Fate push is flaming trash and worth instalynching them for, everything after is actually pretty solid. #923 on is back to being bad.

[Prism]

At some point someone is going to have to sell me on Gin/Fate being town but that's going to have to happen another time. Fate gets a pass solely because of Monokuma.

P-Edit: Fate push is fine, believability of posts/stances improves dramatically.

[Prism]

So you don't find any parts of the three-pronged push problematic?

It's not good reasoning, but I don't think it's particularly scummy.

In particular, this is a case that they thought was strong even if they were scum. You and I both don't think this is the case. Is this biased perception scummy? I don't think so.

Everything pre-500 though needs to go into a dumpster.

[Prism]

prism is top-notch, you can't write them off as town because of that, mastina

I'm curious as to how you would think this considering you've never seen me play scum before. The one game you saw I was incredibly lackluster town.

[Prism]

Biggest issue I'm having right now in the townbloc is Nacho is being power town but has reacted

very

outside town expectations with regards to me (which is where my strongest reads come from)

[Prism]

Interesting.
I'd have thought you'd understand my approach better once I started posting.

Let's hear you verbalize

why

you think I'm town.

[Prism]

it's also healthy for prism to question the powertowning of nacho, but pretty sure this is totally town nacho atm and if he's scum it will readily reveal itself in short time

I'm pretty sure too, but I like to make sure.

More importantly, if his reasoning for it is correct, I will make sure it never happens again.

P-Edit: That's pretty poor so I'll take it.

[Prism]

I'm too tired for this but my goal is to make a vote and pin one scum before bed. Oh, the humanity.

That's pretty poor so I'll take it.

hmmm?

I'm not going to convince you I'm mafia, even though I spent basically the last 20 pages doing exactly that. I mean as fun as it is I need to remember that I'm here to win the game not mess with/test you by doing stupid shit that no remotely intelligent/sane person would do.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

[Prism]

What's wrong with or plan seriously?

I'm very skeptical of the townbloc.

I would give SAJ's chance of flipping scum trivially higher than if you were to just RNG a name.

[Prism]

@Nacho:

You're missing a few pieces here. First is that only my recent posts really pivot on you-specifically because I am trying to nail you down as town. (I'm working on getting away from this)

One of the first missing pieces is that you seem to think my interactions with mastina were done

for you

. This was not the case. It was targeted towards the game at large and was finished

before you even came to weigh in

. Your warnings about it have largely been ignored.

The second is that I did not remember you had seen Podoboq's game until

after

it was over. The purpose of my "winks" and open discussion over it was that the alternative-noticing it yourself-is damning and grounds for an instant lynch. Bringing it up and turning it into a discussion is the best way out of this.

Second is that my line about feeling you townread me anyway was a lie to see if you'd do it. There's

no reason

for you to believe that I did any of that as town, especially if you think the endgoal is to get you to townread me (which appears to be the case). The fact that, from your perspective, my whole game is

created to get you to townread me

, and

wholly artificial

, is puzzling.

I really don't like your earlygame. Last night is really your only saving grace.

P-Edit: Gin, can you explain in your own words why I'm town? Why does my ego battle only come from town?

[Prism]

The fact that, from your perspective, my whole game is created to get you to townread me, and wholly artificial, completely inorganic, and

still town

is puzzling.

EBWOP

[Prism]

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

Simple. I get my best reads from exactly that.

[Prism]

I'd just like to comment that I gave two firsts and two seconds to Nacho. Smooth.

[Prism]

I've already conceded that I will have essentially no say in the lynch today.

[Prism]

And specifically, I am having an

incredibly

hard time getting cold reads this game, which is by far my weakest spot as town. I tend to get the bulk of my reads from working backwards from flips, and right now I'm the only person who's flipped.

P-Edit: I haven't given any of those or hinted that I townread Monokuma, actually. Quite the opposite.

[Prism]

Nacho I can't wait until the day I flip scum against you and get to have a hey day.

Unfortunately for me, as much as I wish and hoped and dream it was this game, it is not.

I still feel like you missed the point but postgame it is, your answer is satisfactory for now.

[Prism]

I'm satisfied with your reasoning behind it now. As much as I'd like to continue the conversation from the hypothetical of me being mafia, I really don't think there's anymore to be gained out of it beyond what was just given.

At this point I've spent close to 2-3 hours skimming various parts of the game to no real "Aha!" moment. I'm fine just getting a flip out, even though I prefer it to be someone active and not just on SAJ.

[Prism]

Do you disagree with my perspective? Is this a scumgame you'd be proud of?

I do. I would be extremely proud of it, in fact. That's a discussion for the endgame.

[Prism]

That's a mod after my own heart.

[Prism]

Do you think they just decided to bus Jin, since he stopped posting? Plausible.

This was my reasoning for why I thought SAJ was a tossup. Scum saw it and is running with it regardless of what it is.

[Prism]

Camn that looks like a little more than 48 hours, you wouldn't be trying to cheat ol' Pine now would you?

i needed it to fall on my time off...

[Prism]

I'm ready for a goddamn flip those extra hours aren't going to help me.

and again... you can lynch ANY TIME! You don't have to wait!

[Prism]

I'm mainly just waiting on Monokuma to get in here and give more content because rereading is taking way, way too much for very little payout.

[Prism]

Also as much as I hate to give more basically not game related content I'm lazy and feel like bantering

@Nacho:

Spoiler: What you think my scum game looks like

Spoiler: What I think my scum game looks like

Spoiler: What my scum game actually looks like

[Prism]

Problem of Monokuma: Everything before their Fate push is flaming trash and worth instalynching them for, everything after is actually pretty solid. #923 on is back to being bad.

[Prism]

Basically leaning scum, but unsure as some of their reads have been in line with mine. (Ex. I lean scum on Fate even though mine is for a different reason)

[Prism]

Alright well Monokuma you're on deck here, lay all your thoughts out on the line.

[Prism]

I actually did just go back and read Ari's part of it.

VOTE: Ari is what I think of all that.

P-Edit: You can complain or you can fucking win the game. Pick.

[Prism]

Have you looked at Ari's scumgame?

No, but you have, and apparently he fit it until the entire town started coaching him out of it.

[Prism]

Ari's scum meta is lurking and Ari replaced into this game to lurk. The chances that he is scum are high; no, they are not 100%, but Ari has a well-documented meta of lurking as scum and look he's lurking. This makes him a good choice in general.

I always find it to be awkward to reading someone who replaced out - that can generally be a tip off to weird RL shit and so being underwhelming and disappearing generally isn't a scum tell for me. But Aristophanes isn't playing like town, which is a shame because it would be a disappointment if Pine lost his ringer and instead got Aristophanes (who I love very much but who also lurks like crazy like scum for some odd reason).

[Prism]

But Aristophanes isn't playing like town

???????

[Prism]

Like, you can clarify here that Ari's

actual posts

are town, but your argument you've just made to me now is that Ari wasn't fitting their scum meta. What you gave as their scum meta earlier is lurking. This is not a qualitative statement, it's a quantitative statement. It's not something you can just say "It's untrue"

[Prism]

Speaking of qualitative, these are the posts I don't like and find really contrived.

#1905 from Gin quotes them

This analysis is just like, "Oh man I've got to comment on things. Well what can I say?" and null reading rather than anything with real substance to it.

[Prism]

Also worth noting that while I still think mastina is town, the chances of getting that confirmed at any point are incredibly low.

[Prism]

People we won't vote today/People we will vote today


Gin
drealmerz7
mastina
Aeronaut
Prism
Vaxkiller

---

Jin
BTD6
Fate
Nachomamma8
SirCakez
Aristophanes

Do you realize you have a high chance of being lynched today? You need to do a bit more than this.

[Prism]

Does it look like I'm voting you?

You can blame us for being wrong if you want, but that attitude is a surefire way to a loss. Make the scum so obvious and your alignment so obvious that we can't possibly miss it.

Chastise us for not doing our part when it's over. In the meantime, you're not even trying.

[Prism]

Not trying? What's our list of people we'll vote then?

A complete black box.

[Prism]

Prism and Vax are being paranoid going "but what if" without actually saying why it's more true.

I don't think I have any reason to townread you, Fate, or even mastina. The soft and the claim is the sole reason that I lean town on mastina at all. What's the explanation for the paranoia you're looking for here?

Nacho gets to be town though.

[Prism]

Who says we need to contribute more than that? We're trying. We put forward who we'll lynch. That's furthering our win condition, we don't feel the need to do more than that. Sorry if that upsets you.

You're delusional if you think that amounts to good play is the point.

This is independent of good play on our end.

[Prism]

Here's my immediate thoughts though I'm still not confident in very many of my reads and a lot of them keep pinballing

Town:

Nacho
Drealm

Kind of Town:

Vax
Gin
Mastina (Purely for claim)
Aeronaut

Null city:

Cakez
BTD6
Jin/Katsuki
Aristophanes

Lean scum:

Monokuma
Fate

Note that this in general lines up with the "townbloc"'s viewpoint. I am also very sure that one of my two scumleans is wrong.

[Prism]

This is the first time I've verbalized the townread on you I believe. I'm still not entirely sure how I got there either, I've just spent all day staring into the ISO abyss and having it stare back into me.

[Prism]

Not voting. Not pushing. Carrying only X amount of weight and saying "If the team can't make it it's all of their fault, we took exactly 1/10th and we're not carrying anymore, even though we're strong enough to". You name it.

[Prism]

Nacho extending that olive branch of diplomacy, oh man, let's see how it goes.

[Prism]

I don't think lynching SAJ will really give us all that much information as opposed to Fate, Monokuma, or one of the nulls, even though it'd be great if they flipped mafia.

[Prism]

Can you quote where I said I thought SAJ was town?

[Prism]

Quick Nacho, do it over this coffee cup.

I love the taste of fresh salty town tears.

[Prism]

PEOPLE DEFENDED THE FUCK OUT OF LYNCHING JIN FOR REASONS. IT'S BEEN APPARENT. YOU CAN READ INTO THOSE.

And I've explained why I think SAJ flipping one way or another will tell me little to nothing about these people. You can read that, if you like.

P-Edit: You not wanting to lynch them is saying blatantly that you think they're not scum. Why? You fucking vote scum thats why.

Neither of these things are true.

[Prism]

Prism, why did you honestly vote Ari instead of Jin?

#2146

"You vote scum" is kind of the point of the game.

If you insist on being pedantic, Gin's assertion was that the lack of vote from me implied I thought SAJ isn't scum. The presence of a vote means something, the absence not so much.

oh no prism please don't say things like that

I think not wanting a lurker lynch when that lurker is mafia is a pretty big scumtell, so if that's what you're wondering, I'm well aware.

I think the last two times I pushed a lurker lynch and people told me "no, the information!!!" they flipped scum.

I find it likely that SAJ will flip scum. My mindset is more "Can I get a different one?" I also think a swing and a miss is less valuable than a lynch on SAJ. The goal is to get both at once.

P-Edit: See above.

[Prism]

I think that pushing for information from a town lynch is sort of silly; if you can tell whenever a push was genuine or fake after you know they're pushing on town then you should be able to see it before and taking out weak points of the scumteam typically shakes things out regardless of how many posts they have.

Specifically, the pecking order is scum lynch>information. I'm trying to get both.

[Prism]

This is conscious. I don't care.

[Prism]

Why are you trying to get another one, Prism?

Scum flip+Ton of Information>Scum flip+Little Information

To go more indepth, SAJ town flip gives basically nothing. SAJ scum flip is a big plus and gives a little bit. Other town flip gives a ton of information. Other scumflip gives a big plus and a ton of information.

I'm not saying we mislynch for information.

[Prism]

Prism, would you say it's fair for me to say I think you're just hyper unwilling to vote Jin as both of you share a common alignment?

I mean, there's a lot bigger reasons to scumread me, namely that I flat out admitted to purposely and consciously emulating my scum game for 30+ pages, but you do you.

I'm fully aware of how the SAJ stance comes off.

P-Edit: Re: Nacho unsure.

[Prism]

Well, vote me then. You vote the mafia, after all.

[Prism]

So much for your teeth. Considering I'm lying through my teeth, I presume you're no longer fine with me being in the townbloc.

Might want to explain how I got there for you to begin with, since you at one point said "I know you're the town", I presume you weren't just sheeping mastina.

[Prism]

Scum flip+Ton of Information>Scum flip+Little Information

Sure. But in days where we are pushing close to the deadline and we already have a low information scum flip, fragmenting the town is typically not a good idea because it gives some much needed wiggle room to scum.

A low information lynch flipping town when that low information lynch is a reflection of a decent amount of POE is also pretty good information in and of itself and is usually where town stomps come from.

I'm more than willing to give scum the wiggle room.

I've implied this but to make it explicit: I anticipate a SAJ lynch, and would even vote it over others. I also don't think it's completely valueless. It's just not something I see much point in rushing to, versus others (Fate/Mono in particular, and I'm still waiting for Ari)

[Prism]

Katsuki's posts aren't really doing too hot on the "Sell them I'm town" side of things.

[Prism]

It's also pretty humorous that Gin's response to me saying "There are much bigger reasons to scumread me" is that I was lying through my teeth, even though that's not what he meant.

If I'm scum I really hope there would be bigger reasons to scumread me than that given 2300 posts.

[Prism]

That's fair, the point is more that I want more from both.

[Prism]

ie. If I had a "Instantly lynch Fate" button right now, I wouldn't press it. Same with Monokuma. I am willing to vote either, though.

P-Edit: I understand that, but it's also hard for me to react with anything more than amusement, in the sense that what he's asking for I can't give.

[Prism]

You have a lurker slot Jin who replaced with an Appeal to Emotions Kat who is doing fuck all as town and then you have Mono who is doing fuck all as town willing to only get into pissing matches and not voting and both slots have made that abundantly fucking clear to the point where you're being willfully ignorant to suggest otherwise.

Are you actually going to claim that Monokuma has done nothing all game, or that they have had very few interactions that would be worthwhile if they flipped?

You need to reconsider what you're arguing here. Arguing that I should vote Katsuki because they're lurker/likely scum, sure. Arguing that I'm wrong that a Monokuma flip would give more information than a Katsuki lynch, regardless of what their flips actually are, is just silly.

[Prism]

Do you think Monokuma will end up doing anything productive today?

Past several pages have me leaning no, but there's still Fate and others.

[Prism]

For you, yes it does now give more than it would have.

For me? Nothing has changed.

[Prism]

Specifically, I just unashamedly stuck my neck out for someone who is dead in the water.

[Prism]

Gin, to be explicit: Has your read on me flipped to scum?

[Prism]

Katsuki are you going to try at all or should I just vote you?

[Prism]

Posts like #2297 that are blatant bullshit make it so hard to townread Fate.

[Prism]

Fate, if I was concerned about any of that, I would have stopped playing this game the way I am a long time ago.

[Prism]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that over time my read on mastina has gradually changed from "probably town for play" to "probably town for the claim" to "kind of town for the claim" to "leaning scum except for the claim." The fact that the mason is basically guaranteed to fail makes the claim silly. That said, I'm still not going to advocate a lynch.

I'll try and review the last 5-6 pages later today.

[Prism]

To review what has to happen for Mastina's mason to be successful, she has to:

1) Not pick scum (1/3 chance if we mislynch town today)
2) Not be roleblocked or redirected to scum (I doubt scum doesn't have an RB)
3) Not pick a night death

[Prism]

(1/3 chance if we mislynch town today)

Well, 3/11 in favor of hitting scum, but you get the point.

[Prism]

At some point I'm actually going to have to write up a case on Mastina, and I'm not looking forward to that day.

[Prism]

Ideally I'd have my vote on a secondary scumread here but it's honestly pretty hard to get one. I think Ari is a fine protest vote, just don't read too much into it.

[Prism]

Well, now I really have to find a secondary vote, ouch.

[Prism]

Id choose town looking roles as Pine

Scum by play ignore claim death

Alternatively we leave them, go back to those lurker lynches you prized so much, and get 2 investigative night results.

[Prism]

Raise your hand if you love to lynch investigative PR claims on Day 1!

[Prism]

Meanwhile, Aristophanes is back to coasting and boasting a stellar ISO with posts like #1802 before they got coached on how to towntell by the entire town.

P-Edit: No worries Pine, I ball out hard as scum. Leave this game to me, you made the right choice.

[Prism]

That's more like what I'd drink, if I didn't already have a fantastic immune system

I've got a very good immune system. It's true. The doctors look at me and they tell me, let me tell you, that I've got the healthiest body of anyone they've ever seen. They tell me I've got an immune system that hits like a train. Very, very good immune system. I've got an immune system that's the envy of the world. And let me tell you it's all about two things-two simple things, folks. I've got great genes. Fantastic genes. You trace my heritage back and I've got genes out the wazoo. Really crazy, out of this world good genes. The other thing is that I pay for the best cells. T cells, B cells, you name it, I buy it, good cells are worth paying for. All the best cells, all made right here in America, and it's going to stay that way. Let me tell you folks, I've got a great immune system, I've built it all my life, and believe me when I say: I'm going to make this nation's immune system great again.

[Prism]

Ya know what, doesn't really matter. I can already tell Imma be scumread no matter what I do. I'm just gonna do it anyway.

Raise your hand if you'd ever type this sentence as town.

[Prism]

I'm actually pretty unhappy with my play this game, in the sense that I'm being invisible

at best

even if I'm 100% right about everything, so I'm going to try being a little more proactive/forceful.

Can someone tell me why they actively townread mastina for something that isn't their claim?

[Prism]

Like, if I were to die tonight, the team could be Mastina/Fate/Ari, and I'd just look at myself and think "I played this like trash", so this is my active attempt to change that

[Prism]

That isn't really my final or well thoughtout guess, it's more like "If I had a gun to my head this is the answer I'd give right this second" type of deal.

Why do you scumread Gin? I find the recent frustrations really genuine.

[Prism]

I'm still skeptical of his start and his reaction to me that one night, but in general the past 15-20 pages have done more to sway me in the direction that he's not mafia.

[Prism]

My impression from rereading SC a few days ago was that it was possible, but not as much as Ari/Mastina.

What do you think about Ari?

[Prism]

Obviously youre the best kill tonight Prism

It was a hypothetical for my own thinking about my quality of play, if you want to get salty over me saying "Even if I was magically 3/3 I

have still played like complete trash

" I guess you can.

[Prism]

Congrats, you literally just

made my point

[Prism]

I mean I've got you as my number 3/4 preference for a lynch right now.

I don't want Nacho, Gin, or Drealm.

I'm more inclined to vote Mastina/Ari even though we're not voting Mastina today.

The rest are all just kind of splashing around in the muck and the mire.

[Prism]

More frustrated with myself for basically not trying for huge swaths of the game and having no confidence in myself the other swaths, but close enough.

[Prism]

Like in no world is actively pretending to be scum for 20+ pages as town something anyone with a hint of intelligence does, let alone someone trying to win the game. I'm like the meme of someone saying something stupid with the caption "Joke's on them I was only pretending!"

I've played this game bouncing back and forth between being a complete idiot or a complete ghost, with very few positive contributions.

[Prism]

I don't know about you Monokuma, but I like winning games a lot more than I do appealing to some nonexistent high ground of ability to make myself feel better.

[Prism]

"At least my reads were right" "It's not my fault" "We should have won but people wouldn't listen" are all phrases spoken by losers.

[Prism]

Great. How about voting Aristophanes?

[Prism]

That townbloc needs to be dismantled ASAP and scrapped for parts, and the two parts worth salvaging are Nacho and Gin.

[Prism]

Not my only point. The posts he made were bad.

[Prism]

I realize that requires more elaboration but I'm on my phone right now. I linked a post or two awhile back and quoted one today. The analysis he gave during the jam session was really lackluster overall, nice and agreeable. No more.

[Prism]

If production in itself is town, I guess mastina is town every game.

[Prism]

I mean you're doing more to sell me on it than he ever did, problem is you're on Cakez who is like, 6th-8th on the lynch preference list as opposed to Ari who is tied for #1

[Prism]

...And you coached production out of him by having everyone say "You lurk as scum, you need to join the jam session, come on in"

If you can point to what

in the content

is actually town then sure, but my interpretation of the posts you liked is a complete 180. I'm not townreading Ari jumping because the town told him to jump. That's not how that works.

[Prism]

Like what reaction were you expecting out of scum Ari here?

"Oh man the town caught me, I only lurk as mafia. I have to keep lurking, it's the only thing I can do."

The town

told him the answer.

P-Edit: Okay basically you're saying that yes, Ari has the same level of adaptability as a pet rock. Sorry but I'm more skeptical.

[Prism]

It's like you handed Ari a test, told him "Hey the answer is C!" then somehow expect him not to circle C if he was mafia.

[Prism]

I'm not saying the posts aren't original.

I am saying that when the entire town screams "Ari scum lurks and doesn't produce content",

Ari scum is going to provide content

[Prism]

Nacho said it. Mastina said it. I'm pretty sure someone else said it. It was not unprompted entry.

[Prism]

Ah yes, very funny assumption I have here that someone wants to improve their play and make a conscious effort at it, when Ari specifically thanked everyone for giving him a chance at improving himself and his play and for the help.

[Prism]

Well Ari, Gin is telling me that apparently you're so stupid you don't even know how to dress yourself. You've got the adaptability of a pet rock and a solid desire to be mediocre at everything forever, with no desire to improve at a game that you invest hours and hours on every week and have fun playing. It's a miracle you ever learned how to use a computer. What do you think? Should I believe him?

[Prism]

Hahaha I think you are exaggerating his intentions and his points here.

I do have limited adaptability in my play. Or at least, so it seems to be from my experience as a player. I've been obv scum from my first games, and that has developed into a lurkerscum showing.

I have attempted to change this, but when I do I become obv scum again.

Gin isn't calling me a moron, he's saying I have a set way and get easily overwhelmed, especially as scum. He's not wrong.

I realize I was grossly exaggerating to make a point, regardless if this is the truth you really need to have more faith in yourself.

[Prism]

I'd vote Katsuki. I'd vote BTD6. I'd continue voting Monokuma, oddly enough; if I had time I'd probably outline a full case on the slot and maybe I will later.

I'm mostly in favor of leaving Monokuma alive. I'd give them a straight 50% chance of being mafia (as opposed to like 30% BTD6), but with the investigatives they have a good chance of either making themselves town or at least giving us something on the way down.

If you're that deadset on lynching them just do it Day 2.

[Prism]

You've got 20 posts in a 2605 post game, dude.

[Prism]

are you done fucking around or do you have a decent choice for a lynch yet?

Yes no.

[Prism]

(My choices are Ari/mastina, both of whom are in your townbloc, currently looking for a third choice)

[Prism]

Gotta read those last few pages Nacho brother.

[Prism]

I'm done fucking around but that means sometimes you let out the bull in your own china shop instead of the competitor across the street.

[Prism]

I'm coming for your town motherfucker.

[Prism]

If you want to know insane person things, imagine mislynching someone who can hand you a free track+watch on Day 1.

P-Edit: One shot and it's going to fail almost guaranteed. You agreed yourself that there play suggested they were scum. I also don't want to lynch them today.

[Prism]

If Mastina holds onto that shot today and gets watched N2 then the attempt won't fail. It will otherwise.

This is a pretty good plan, I like this. I still anticipate it to fail but that forces a 1v1 or a teamconfirmation instead.

[Prism]

And so don't tell people to vote Monokuma you absolute madman.

[Prism]

Feel me inching closer to the home base Pine. I warned you that I was coming, you little scumbag. I got your name. I got your ass. You will not laugh, you will not cry. You will learn by the numbers. I will teach you.

Or more likely I'm making a fool of myself entirely with these reads but I'm going in anyway