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Post Post #1659 (isolation #0) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:54 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

And hello to you too creature :lol:
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1660 (isolation #1) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:56 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

At any rate I'm a bit less available this afternoon, will catch up more tonight or likelier tomorow.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1686 (isolation #2) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:14 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Haven't really caught up yet, plan to do so tonight. Dreal, can you point to a couple of specific posts or sections of this and last game that in your opinion line up especially well on this point?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1691 (isolation #3) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Day One notes

Spoiler:
In post 54, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: Clemency
Fishing is poor play pal.
bad vote, presented as serious
In post 64, RachMarie wrote:An example Deo (Titus) claimed hated, which means it takes one less vote to lynch that slot than normal.
derp-clear? Does Rach fake (or actually have) this kind of sloppiness as scum?
In post 108, RachMarie wrote:Ok I missed something here?

SS wants to policy lynch someone because they claimed hated?
Titus town
In post 113, Shadow_step wrote:Anyway
Gamma is the scum on my wagon.
Look at his reasoning to vote me. It is something I posted on page 1 and he has been postin since then. But he only decides to vote me when there are lot of votes on me already.
VOTE: Gamma
Seems reasonable
In post 135, Postie wrote:lol shadow's town.
Someone tell me where to vote.
*does she later endorse shadow wagon?
In post 171, The DEO wrote:Because double voters are almost always Town.
You're scum because you tried to policy lynch me and claim sarcasm afterward but only did so after you were wagoned.
Then you just beg for someone else to lynch instead of yourself and aren't hunting.
It is like you aren't even trying.
The real question isn't why you are scum. It is how could you ever be town?
Oh and Grandma Shadow is right on one thing. Reasons are good.
DEO looks like town with terrible reasoning
In post 176, Shadow_step wrote:If I wanted to PL you I would have voted you. You can't be that dense.
Gonna go ahead and hard town read DEO now
In post 205, Vedith wrote:
In post 201, Shadow_step wrote:Since you discredited me how about you talk about your reads.
This is you saying that you have no reads...
Instead of getting defensive, try and work with me on this.

Postie isn't playing like Postie town, trying to brush off actually doing anything
Gamma probably isn't scum, I can see people wanting to push there.
Rach I don't like as town so far, but I'm probably biased against her.
Kuroi is Kuroi
Dreal is posting VERY quiet compared to his normal town games. This is probably scum
You're porbably town, just being arrogant.
The rest, who knows as of yet?
Now your turn.
Als
VOTE: Dreal
lurker lynch vote, especially odd given his stated scum read of Postie, who had "two" votes at that point
In post 222, KuroiXHF wrote:I'm not sure, but I think this is normal for you.
If you're town, you sure as hell don't come across as town. This emotion-based approach and the anger makes you look scummiest of us all.
:neutral: what exactly about the emotion-based approach looked scummy? That seems like an odd read; anger in particular is an NAI emotion, and I know that shadow tends to get pissy when wagoned as town (which I'd think that a lot of people around here ought to be aware of)
In post 223, Postie wrote:...
In post 222, KuroiXHF wrote:This emotion-based approach and the anger makes you look scummiest of us all.
Literally the reason I'm sure shadow's town here.
Postie on my wavelength, a good sign given the last game we had together (now let us never speak of that again). I'm not sure I'd have been lock town on shadow here, but i don't see at all the idea that his emotions were themselves scummy.
In post 240, KuroiXHF wrote:Possibly could be town. I wasn't making a case that Shadow is scum. I'm just giving him a tip if he doesn't want to be bandwagonned.
:neutral: looked more like shading tbh... and even if it was a "tip", that's a pretty neutral stance to be taking towards the major wagon at that point in time
In post 242, The DEO wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63765 There's Suikoden Mafia Postie. Ny 191 is the Davesaz game and Inorganic Chemistry is the Mastina game. (language is closer in those two, vote count situation closer here).
Three sample games Postie.
Titus doing conf!bias
In post 255, The DEO wrote:
In post 250, RachMarie wrote:Postie feels like she is WKing SS and that makes my scumdar ping something fierce
VOTE: Postie
Yeah, creeps, look at RM in the game context. This pings hardcore. RM takes no position on SS but attacks Postie for "whiteknighting" SS.
This makes me think The gut is right.
Gamma, can you dual vote RM?
In post 257, Gamma Emerald wrote:RachMarie seems to be putting in solid effort so I may have to look back and consider
In post 261, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah that doesn't really look like WKing
Also I see you but it's not just the PL thing I don't like
VOTE: RachMarie
So he disagrees with the "WK" comment, votes her anyway because TItus says so???
In post 263, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 250, RachMarie wrote:Postie feels like she is WKing SS and that makes my scumdar ping something fierce
VOTE: Postie
This appears like opportunism, which I do not like.
VOTE: RachMarie
small town points for kuroi here
In post 320, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 185, Postie wrote:VOTE: Gamma
Because jealousy.
In post 186, Postie wrote:VOTE: Titus
OMGUS.
In post 187, Postie wrote:VOTE: Clemency
Anyone with a Light Yagami avatar is always scum.
In post 188, Postie wrote:There did I do enough useful things
I'm not seeing this as Town.
That's pretty null RVS behavior. Why in the world was this scum-indicative?
In post 370, Gamma Emerald wrote:That reads list feels like it's half formed. I'd think you'd have a townread on DEO based on your Shadow read.
good post by gamma
In post 422, Creeps20 wrote:
In post 418, Postie wrote:
In post 416, The DEO wrote:Lynch Shadow. He scum claimed hard when he tried to policy lynch me.
Can you even point to anything that suggests he was being serious? Because if not then why would we do this.
VOTE: Postie
I Don't like voting town reads but I see a scum slip.
Answering KuroiXHF's(?) question now.
It took me a while to even see waht the "slip" was supposed to be. If creeps wasn't a newb i'd say string him up asap, as it was that was not good
In post 456, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 451, RadiantCowbells wrote:Gamma Emerald has been modkilled for theif of pagetop. He was a
Scrubby Thief of Pagetop
, aligned with the
Pagetop Thieves
.
...I thought this game is non bastard.
What rule was broken?
What the fuck?
Also Gamma, if you're still in the game, my biggest scum read is Creature.
Which reminds me...
VOTE: Creature
In post 457, Gamma Emerald wrote:Kuroi is town.
bad read here, kuroi is capable of faking derp as scum
In post 551, drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 550, Vedith wrote:
In post 545, Shadow_step wrote:He's hated so benefit of doubt for now.
All I've seen him doing is getting lynched as town day 1 in a lot of games.
I'm okay with lynching him tomorrow over Dreal. This is not going to be Dreal's town play, that's for sure.
He's normally more structured, even more so when called scum, here he is just shouting "you're scum" like a kid.
you don't know my play!!!
omg I'm tired of scum just saying they know shit aobut my play and making cases
it's utter BS
S_S is the one repeating "you're scum" without addressing ANYTHING (and when he does it's scum-excuses "oh I didn't read that") - I'm just frustrated at all of you for avoiding the obvious
like, how is S_S town?!?!?!?!?! TELL ME!
slightly villagery by dreal
In post 564, Postie wrote:K dreal can be town. I don't see scum!dreal being able to fake this level of delusional rage.
postie town
In post 625, Klingoncelt wrote:I changed my mind. I'll vote now.
VOTE: Shadow_Step
why is this town again?
In post 650, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In Memory


Votecount 1.27:

Shadow_Step (7): drealmerz7, Creeps20, The DEO, Gamma Emerald, Creature, Klingoncelt
Gamma Emerald (2): Clemency, Deimos27
drealmersz7 (2): Shadow_Step, Vedith
Postie (1): RachMarie
Creature (1): KuroiXHF
Vedith (1): LycanFire
At least one of RM/Kuroi/Lycan is scum here virtually always
In post 668, Creature wrote:VOTE: RachMarie
In post 670, Creature wrote:Rach looks different.
In post 674, Creature wrote:VOTE: KTS
What drove the hop off / hop on?
In post 762, RachMarie wrote:I am reassessing you based on reading up on those games Postie
and yeah when KTS came in and started like oh well I replaced in but Im gonna go do other stuffs when he replaced in a slot many already think is scummy well of course I voted for him
oh look rachmarie with the opportunistic hop onto something that's null, bonus points for blaming "popular opinion"
In post 819, Klingoncelt wrote:...
I know it's unlikely, but KTS is fun to play with. Sadly he's not his fun trolly self today, that added to SS's awful attitude screams Scum from the highest hills.
That said,
VOTE: KillTheStory
As for the multiple factions, it's in the win condition. The words "all" and "factions" appear. Can't really paraphrase. So it could be 11:4 or 11:3:1 or 11:2:2.
probably scum, if she is, she's likely with Gamma and/or RachMarie->boring
In post 837, Vedith wrote:
In post 830, Gamma Emerald wrote:You know what let's do this.
Intent to hammer.
Scum :up:
not certain vedith was correct here, but villagery on his end at least
In post 860, Vedith wrote:Lycan scum?
highly consistent with town!vedith town-reading shadow and thinking about opportunistic hop-ons
In post 863, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 860, Vedith wrote:Lycan scum?
I'm curious why you say this.
I'm curious why you didn't think the answer was obvious
In post 866, Postie wrote:Lycan is acting so out of character that he sounds exactly nothing like his town self but at the same time it's so blatant that I'm having trouble believing he'd really act like this as scum.
hedgy but in a way that sounds like she's trying to think through his alignment, not just being hedgy
In post 894, Postie wrote:Gee KTS was town whoda thought it
If only someone had warned us all of this and offered a more suitable lynch option
In post 896, Postie wrote:
In post 884, Lycanfire wrote:hey postie who would you have voted today?
Oh I didn't see this.
Hi.
Take a guess.
town
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1694 (isolation #4) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:01 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Day 2 notes

Spoiler:
In post 922, drealmerz7 wrote:uh wha? woah! crazy
I kind of like it
that it is Day I mean, I like funky mechanics - I wonder if that is PR related (but shh if it is!)
not liking that that slot was town - wtf? wtf? SS + KTS, wtf do you play like that as town!?
seriously, that is fucking whacked
and I feel....used...duped...fucking pissed
like I was made the spokesperson for scum driving a ML and they hid behind me
I want to fucking find who is responsible, and it really just points to one place
*looks at The DEO*
VOTE: The DEO
If you're town, trying looking at the people making lazy/opportunistic hop-ons given this argument, not someone else who was hard-pushing the lynch (unless you think the hard-push was bullshit, which isn't actually something you've substantiated)
In post 936, JaeReed wrote:KTS was the lynch though wasn't he? Not shadow step?
Jae, how often do you not look at who was lynched and what his predecessors were when you replace into a game?
In post 994, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 945, The DEO wrote:Klingon has had zero useful activity since the initial burst.
Why are you having flashbacks to Math's play? I am not Math.
I did say I'd been sick. I wound up at the doctor's today. He called in a scrip for antibiotics. He wanted me to get admitted into the hospital, but I can't do that.
So my play's off.
So deal.
The good news is that I "bubbled" KTS. He's not going to the Dead Zone.
:?: :?: :?: probably not ASAP, but this needs to be explained at some point
In post 1006, drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 1000, RachMarie wrote:Well I am gonna check on things this weekend I am in the middle of working on a large report for a client I am supposed to have to him tomorrow night and I cant sit at the computer any longer tonight, Its in the 20s and my fingers are cold and I do not want to run the heater any longer today, so I am going to bed now.
Over the weekend, I will look at some ISOs and see who else I think is scum. I was actually surprised SS/KTS was not scum after all.
I know more about your personal life than I do about your reads
:lol: reminds me of Thor (town) talking about Azure (scum) in rio dead chat.
In post 1010, drealmerz7 wrote:I'm wondering about it being no D2 and no Night / no scumkill and what is going on. Not that I mind having two lynches in before scum get akill off, but, like I said, it makes me wonder what is going on.
It makes me wonder if there is some weird catch-22 going on in the game (both for scum and town! so weird!)
To explain more, if The Sun is scum, but Night can't come because The Sun is constantly "out" (alive), and scum can't perform a kill until Night...
that would mean scum have to rely on mislynches only until perchance The Sun gets lynched and then it is business as usual ?
so as much as they want to perform NKs, they don't want their own lynched
and as much as we (town) don't want NKs, we want to lynch scum, and if that is The Sun, and makes Night come
yeah, catch-22 for both
I can see RC doing that
not that I want to distract from what I think is a good lynch in RM, but, no one is really pushing that or going there it seems and I think I just sold myself on creature as scum!
UNVOTE: RachMarie
VOTE: Creature
This idea actually occurred to me as well. Not sure there's much point in pursuing it at this stage though; if scum are actually prevented from killing indefinitely, then even if creature is scum we're in pretty good shape since it gives us a bunch of extra mislynches we can afford.
Slight town points for the paranoia here though.
In post 1039, Deimos27 wrote:My first time doing the VCA thing. Learned it from reading an mhsmith IC post in which (I think) he says that he likes to turn himself green. So idk.
not that it really matters, but that's not exactly correct.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8468554
I quoted someone who likes to do that (TWC), I personally feel like it's a waste of space and since part of the point is to be helpful to those who are reading it, greening myself just makes it harder to use.
In post 1042, Lycanfire wrote:your reads don't make any sense and you should feel bad :down:
What about his reads fails to make sense?
...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8637547
What in the world makes you think Deimos is good enough as a player to have a solid concept of associative scum-reads? Or why it would be unreasonable for him to have scunmreads that make more sense if RM was town, given that on day 2 it's entirely possible he was simply wrong on RM?
In post 1061, KuroiXHF wrote:You usually town read Rach? I find this interesting. What specifically makes you normally town read her?
Decent question by Kuroi.

Skimmed the first three, each seemed more contenty than this one. dito the last one.
In post 1329, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1293, Lycanfire wrote:nice try scumfucker titus said mathblade was her hydra partner day 1.
Link to the post, please.
VOTE: Lycanfire
vote #6 (L-2) from bandwagony bandwagoner
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1695 (isolation #5) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:03 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

borings kind of a null on her own but RachMarie was scummy and it seems like we keep getting counter-wagons on that slot popping up

VOTE: boring

nothing close to 100% but I think decent odds of hitting scum
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1702 (isolation #6) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:27 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Well I guess this means that boring actually wasn't lying about being loved
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1703 (isolation #7) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:28 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1696, JaeReed wrote:smith, why is your only question to me one that isn't likely to give you an AI answer? Considering I've been a pusher of both counterwagons to boring I'd imagine you'd have better questions for me than that.

As far as your question... No, I look at who was lynched and what they flipped, then I read, usually, while trying to keep up with current postings. I don't generally pay attention to replacements until I hit that point in my read. What were you hoping to learn from that?
1) Can you provide a link to a game where you've done similar?
2) Why don't you guess how that question might have been helpful?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1706 (isolation #8) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:31 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1704, Gamma Emerald wrote:@mhsmith (responding to your d1 wall post): I don't think I was TRing Kuroi for the derp, it was something else
any recollection what that something else was?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1709 (isolation #9) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:37 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Currently JR, Zef and Lycan appear to be on vanity wagons going nowhere, with under 24 hours to go until deadline. Either push harder on the wagon you're on, or make it clear why you don't think boring is scum, or hammer. No lynch is unacceptable.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1715 (isolation #10) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:21 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

@Gamma: probably doesn't really matter, but please prove that you're an even day non-voter by trying (and presumably failing) to hammer boring

@JR, Zef, Lycan: one of you needs to hammer boring before deadline (it's now pretty clearly too late to actually push the wagon on someone else). If you fail to do so (barring a VERY good defense on boring being town), you three are on the "policy vig" list tonight.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1720 (isolation #11) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:07 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1717, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1715, mhsmith0 wrote:@JR, Zef, Lycan: one of you needs to hammer boring before deadline (it's now pretty clearly too late to actually push the wagon on someone else). If you fail to do so (barring a VERY good defense on boring being town), you three are on the "policy vig" list tonight.
If you actually read the thread you would have seen I was waiting to hammer after I saw your catch up.

Threats make me disinclined to do so out of spite.
You did say you were waiting. Then I caught up, and voted boring (making her L-1 given loved status), and then you didn't actually hammer (and you realized I had caught up given that you were asking me about the catchup). Which made me suspect you were intentionally stalling, thus the push (and it should be noted that it was on all three non-voters, not you specifically)
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1723 (isolation #12) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1722, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1720, mhsmith0 wrote:You did say you were waiting. Then I caught up, and voted boring (making her L-1 given loved status), and then you didn't actually hammer (and you realized I had caught up given that you were asking me about the catchup). Which made me suspect you were intentionally stalling, thus the push (and it should be noted that it was on all three non-voters, not you specifically)
Considering we're likely going into the night phase I want things to be as wrapped up as possible before hammering. That means people having a chance to engage with your catch-up.
That's fine as things go, but I tend to get nervous when it nears deadline and things are stalling. 17 hours to go means not a super crazy rush, but at the same time, I really don't want to wake up tomorrow to discover that we no lynched because no one bothered to hammer.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #1724 (isolation #13) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:19 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1721, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1703, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1696, JaeReed wrote:smith, why is your only question to me one that isn't likely to give you an AI answer? Considering I've been a pusher of both counterwagons to boring I'd imagine you'd have better questions for me than that.

As far as your question... No, I look at who was lynched and what they flipped, then I read, usually, while trying to keep up with current postings. I don't generally pay attention to replacements until I hit that point in my read. What were you hoping to learn from that?
1) Can you provide a link to a game where you've done similar?
2) Why don't you guess how that question might have been helpful?
1) Not that I remember. I still don't think it's important regardless.
2) My only guess is you're trying to see if I'm dumbtelling or derp cleared myself. You can do better. Read me off my actual content like I know you can.
Actually I was curious whether you were trying to fake derp clear yourself. Because while lack of thread awareness is usually something villagery, in that context (your analysis of the d1 lynch) it seemed unusual as either alignment for you to somehow not know who had occupied the slot. So it was something more suspicious than clearing at first glance, and I was trying to see if there was meta to evaluate if it was actually just null on your end.
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Post Post #1728 (isolation #14) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:29 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1727, drealmerz7 wrote:I still WANT to do it, I just, don't want to do it

if that makes sense?
well, if she's scum I don't think that it really matters. if she's not scum, then if you're around tomorrow you'll need to back up that meta read you made with something to demonstrate that it was substantive.
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Post Post #1784 (isolation #15) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:32 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Meh I'm going back and forth w her. Like, in rio boring (yellow on MU) was pretty emotional and omgusy about being under fire, here she's just been blah. Maybe it's because she inherited a bad slot (and therefore wasn't on her), but it's not similar to what I'd seen before. But I think the main issue was with rachmarie, and I don't think there's really a particularly good way to defend a slot other than actively finding a better lynch, which she really didn't do. So I'd ballpark it around 50-50, which at this point in the game is I think fine odds.
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Post Post #1785 (isolation #16) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:34 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Probably need to reread Lycan. When he was a wolf he wasn't super difficult to spot, maybe he improved, but at the least I want to do actual work comparing that and some of his town games.
That game was
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67875
Btw in case I eat a bullet tonight.
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Post Post #1786 (isolation #17) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:38 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

My meta case from that game (like right after I subbed in too :D)
In post 437, mhsmith0 wrote:By the way, I know how much you enjoy meta, but this is what I've seen from Lycan so far:

Open 651 - Town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
makes posts like
Spoiler:
In post 90, Lycanfire wrote:Please stop getting so defensive, Vedith! Two votes and you're death flailing already!
In post 91, Lycanfire wrote:He's got a weapon!
Daykill: Vedith
In post 102, Lycanfire wrote:game solved i'm going to sleep
In post 149, Lycanfire wrote:Bastion if you like confidence you should vote light_ganski with me.
In post 267, Lycanfire wrote:told you that the game was solved
In post 386, Lycanfire wrote:can we take a moment to appreciate the fact we have two people that can't bother to put their votes down with people at L-4.
In post 379, Sir Bastion wrote:I am going to have to be unpopular and say he's town and I will oppose any move to lynch him today.
you can follow him to hell after flip.
In post 433, Lycanfire wrote:but if i'm such a good lynch and a scumfucker why are you ignoring your gut read and sheeping njac's wagon?
In post 434, Lycanfire wrote:is it because you have no incentive to solve the game?
In post 656, Lycanfire wrote:do you hate my pr claim that much ironstove? i'm glad to hear it!! if only someone could do something about that and autowin game huh :left: :left: :left: :left:


plus try-hard posts like
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8228292
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8242675
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8277500
etc

Newbie 1718 - Town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

makes posts like
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8086941
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8110308
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8110322
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8117906
etc.


plus try-hard posts like
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8090282
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8097503
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8097520
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8129604
etc.

Newbie 1717 - Town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
more of the same


Overall town meta: emotional, high energy, asks pointed questions, occasionally shows high amounts of effort in sorting people.

This game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8307240 until I subbed in, he had asked not a single question so far. not one, all game, until his response to me in , and even that is a self-focused question. Low emotion (states that he's pissed off, but doesn't show it in his posts), is low energy with a general lack of game-solving. His ISO here is boring when his town game is pretty consistently anything but.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1794 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1793, Creature wrote:
In post 1790, RadiantCowbells wrote:If Tito is killed at night, the country will stay together for the following day phase before collapsing.
Huh what?
Presumably that's the delayed death bit. He gets to stay alive and keep posting for a day phase, likea 1-day tree stump.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1795 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

btw, does anyone know anything about why boring's flip was redacted? I'd guess it was either her role or a scum day power but wasn't sure if there's some other explanation that I'm missing
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1797 (isolation #20) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:01 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

probably we'll find out soon enough one way or the other
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1803 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:12 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1802, Creature wrote:Btw, who else was speculating that I must be a scum-aligned Sun? There must have scum around there.
must be or might be? The latter possibility occurred to me; did anyone actually go beyond "well maybe" and actually hit strong likelihood?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1808 (isolation #22) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:45 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1806, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also I have been "shipped together", whatever that means.
you mean like this?
Image
:P
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Post Post #1894 (isolation #23) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:38 pm

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In post 1893, Postie wrote:I read it more as stupid than lazy.
+1
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Post Post #1895 (isolation #24) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

And to the extent that it is lazy, I don't see how it's lazy in a non-villagery way. I could easily see a villager writing him off as probably town and only worry about tinfoiling there sometime later on if needed.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1896 (isolation #25) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:42 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Ps in the absence of my doing a substantive reread, which I'll get to but not immdediately (likely sometime this weekend) I kinda want to see where zef vs dreal goes
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Post Post #1897 (isolation #26) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1868, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 1866, The DEO wrote:VOTE: zefiend

Avoiding RachMarie wagon, and accusing me of strongarming when someone said we needed a decision made. Yeah, don't think so.

Drealmerz hesitation and push on Lycan after I told him the choice is why I pressured him. Scum Drealmerz likely doesn't call out zefiend there.
1. Omgus
2. Blatant misrepresentation about the RM slot lynch
3. I'm not talking about the RM slot lynch
4. I'm talking about SS and Lycanfire (whether it was Math or you IDC, it's the same slot)

This is how I know you're scum -- trying to talk over everyone else. When I get to a computer I can put a proper case together.
I'm also curious about this. What do you mean by Titus
trying to talk over everyone else
and why exactly do you think it's wolfy? Do you mean she just has an opinion and is pushing it? Something else that I can't really follow?
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Post Post #1927 (isolation #27) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:34 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1919, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 1915, Gamma Emerald wrote:So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.
What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.
Please provide a couple examples of Titus doing this as scum in previous games.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1947 (isolation #28) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:47 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1932, ɀefiend wrote:I'm not building a scum-meta case on Titus, I'm trying to show how things appear in the context of THIS game. Also see above posts; I have experience with Titus as both alignments.
What if I told you that I had extensive experience with Titus and that she tends to be aggressive, tunnelly, and unafraid to strongarm lynches (even bad ones) as town, while as scum she tends to be more subdued and reasonable-sounding?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #1972 (isolation #29) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1970, ɀefiend wrote:So between game-time 27 and 601, the crux of Titus' case revolves around the PL comment.
Yes, she kept pushing that point, but the question is, did she do it insincerely?

Like, for comparison, just skim this set of posts from day 1 in rio (wgeurts ["Mysterious Lad"] was scum, while I, Secondhand, soah, etc were all town)

Spoiler:
Titus wrote:[v"]mhsmith[/v"]

For the fifth fucking time.
Titus wrote:[img"]http://i.giphy.com/lJIlmnkrqJRKcFdm.gif[/img"]

Can we just lynch smith now?
Titus wrote:
mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.
And with this post, you've became a scumread.

That's far to premature and this reeks of buddying.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Titus wrote:
mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.
And with this post, you've became a scumread.

That's far to premature and this reeks of buddying.
If that's the post that made you suspicious of him then what's the deal with your other posts about him?
First vote was semi-RVS based on a tell from another player off-site that I don't really value but I wanted to investigate. RVS is good for that.
Titus wrote:That was garbled.

I meant another player off-site uses a tell that I am investigating. By that standard, mhsmith would be scum.

Then, he starts buddying.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?
A joke claim in RVS = fry him. Pisskop knows this I believe.
Titus wrote:
UpsideDownChuck wrote:
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?
A joke claim in RVS = fry him. Pisskop knows this I believe.
Could you elaborate on what you mean here? If I'm not mistaken soah was asking why you were characterizing mhsmith's post as buddying and not a joke, which I am also interested in.
Jokes that imply scumminess = fry em.

It used to be a certain joke that happened always came from scum. (Namely X always rands scum). In general I don't like jokes that place others in bad lights.

Thor - Was my first town IC
.) Secondhand Revenant - no
.) Royal Ape - no
.) MysteriousLad - fair amount
.) soah - no
.) ljtrigirl - no
.) pisskop - fair anount
.) mhsmith - a couple games
.) spider - no
.) Yellow - no
.) Titus - years of experience
.) UpsideDownChuck - no
.) Azure - sounds familiar but cannot recall
Titus wrote:What's complicated about

if someone says joke in RVS lynch it

so I don't consider the possibility of jokes in RVS that paint someone as scummy?

Like many many words obfuscating the truth

Add in mhsmith triggered a tell someone i highly respect uses

done case closed
Titus wrote:My god. This one of those games.

If someone makes a joke in RVS and that joke throws shade, you lynch the "joker".
A player I respect has a tell that would suggest mhsmith is scum and I want to investigate its validity.
mhsmith is buddying.

What part about that is hard to get?
Titus wrote:) There was no "joke claim", just someone asking me why I didn't consider your posting is a joke. To me, you were throwing shade, so it didn't matter joke or real. So rather than get into a semantic argument over what's a joke, just lynch all jokers who throw shade. That's what's true from games I'm in. I've seen too many "so and so always rands scum" jokes and they flip scum. So I am ignoring the "joke" defense.

Then again, you've answered part of what would qualify. Both you and yellow cannot be town because both yellow. That's a joke. Plus, it throws shade at yellow.

I'm not in the mood to discuss semantics. If it was a joke, it's a scummy RVS joke. If it wasn't a joke, it was throwing shade.

Seriously, not rocket science.
Titus wrote:
MysteriousLad wrote:
Titus wrote:[img"]http://i.giphy.com/lJIlmnkrqJRKcFdm.gif[/img"]

Can we just lynch smith now?
Has your play style changed recently or something?
Little surprised you would even jokingly suggest that.
It's been a year. I have added a little bit of Mollie, Shiro and a hint of DGB (who I believe has the tell on Smith). It might have been Mollie retelling it.

Oh and I wasn't joking. We should lynch smith.
Titus wrote:
Thor wrote:[MENTION="]Titus[/MENTION"] - I will happily compare bad tunneling instances versus you any time - I don't think it's a contest that will change my stance towards your play this last year. Your current push is based on air and you're acting like it's serious and then dishing at people pointing out that it's air. You deserve a scumread.

[MENTION="]Yellow[/MENTION"] - your vote on mhsmith looked pure survival to push the two competing wagons of which you were part of into an mhsmith leading wagon. When you combine that with your lack of real stated reason to suspect him along with no mention of it being a survival oriented vote, it makes your vote look very scum motivated. That's why I think we should flip you.

Royal's reaction to me calling him suspect looks scummy to me. Consider that a stronger read now.
Sora's reaction to my post is a joke - but he can feel free to read up on me all he wants.
MysteriousLad is starting to hug a fence, I'd like to see that change.

If you're town, get out of the way. The student has surpassed the teacher. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's based on air. My push has withstood the litany of scum pushing against it and the counterwagon formed on obviously town Yellow.

I presume you've played with boring. Not a chance they are scum here. Yet, there's a counterwagon on them.

Let's keep it shall we. No butthurt negative reactions.
Titus wrote:
Royal Ape wrote:
Titus wrote:
Royal Ape wrote:Gut evil .
[img"]http://i.giphy.com/BaIaIDLSXEI.gif[/img"]

Does that recalibrate your gut? It's off bad.
It maybe recalibrates it on you. Azure can still be evil though - right?
Theoretically, I don't have mod confirmation, but I highly highly doubt it.

Evil does something to save smith.
Titus wrote:Like compare wgeurts asking about the tell to investigate, versus those who just outright attack with no questions.

wgeurts is scumhunting trying to figure out whether I'm blowing hard.

Thor, who has the most experience with the players who I drew my play from, has remained utterly silent.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?
Take this...

He wants to get most players to dismiss smith as joking and jovial, the very fake tone Smith is attempting to project.

He is hypersensitive so he paints technical errors as scummy.

smith is just scum.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?
Take this...

He wants to get most players to dismiss smith as joking and jovial, the very fake tone Smith is attempting to project.

He is hypersensitive so he paints technical errors as scummy.

smith is just scum.
So now you're disputing that smith was joking?

And you're calling me a wolf?

This would all be a lot easier if you'd communicate more clearly.
I don't believe in RVS "jokes" that paint people as scummy. That's pretty clear from my posting so far.

I'm suspecting it. Why else are you so desperate to have smith be labeled a joker when he was wildly throwing shade around?

Yeah, let's pretend the reason you're not voting scum is because I didn't communicate clearly.
Titus wrote:If you feel there's something "unsaid" about my smith rationale, you can comment.

smith triggered a tell.
smith is faking a joking attitude.
smith isn't scumhunting.
counterwagon on obvious town.

Done.

Anything about that not clear? or just not clearly attackable?
Titus wrote:
MysteriousLad wrote:Thor and Titus can you please quit attacking each others play if you're town? It just clogs things up and gets us nowhere. Work together, or ignore if you are unable to overlook your differences.

If you're scum, carry on making a good player look less reliable. Give us an easy way to get one scum knocked off our list.

There's no need for this otherwise.
You townreading Thor? To me, he's just chainsawing for Smith.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Titus wrote:I don't believe in RVS "jokes" that paint people as scummy. That's pretty clear from my posting so far.

I'm suspecting it. Why else are you so desperate to have smith be labeled a joker when he was wildly throwing shade around?

Yeah, let's pretend the reason you're not voting scum is because I didn't communicate clearly.
You are changing the timeline here.

You initially attacked smith for buddying, and made no reference whatsoever to the other half of his post. A charge of "buddying" is one that necessarily requires a very careful analysis in order to distinguish wolfy buddying from a villager who is just making a read on another (presumed) villager. Most people do extremely poorly at making this distinction even when interpreting posts correctly, so it seemed to be of particular relevance that you appeared to not even be interpreting the post correctly. (To be more specific, it was the other thing you said, something about his read being way too premature, which would be completely invalidated if smith's post were not meant to be taken seriously, though the two issues were tied together to some degree.)

It was not until after I raised this point that you introduced the argument about making a joking attack, though you still referenced the buddying argument again later without ever offering any clarification about whether you were reading that part of the post as a joke as well.

You label smith as "wildly throwing shade around", which, again relies people actually interpreting his post as anything other than a joke. But you would have us believe that this game can be solved solely by blindly applying simple heuristics, with no examination whatsoever of context and the specific details of the posts. This, frankly, is absurd.

I have offered you many chances to transparently lay out the thought process that went into your posts, yet you have chosen instead to ignore my simple questions and engage in ad hominem attacks on me in place of explaining your own actions. Calling me "desperate" is begging the question. I started out merely by asking you how sure you were that the post you'd responded to was not meant as a joke. As you continued to evade my questions, I became more forceful in asserting myself, as it seemed that my original tactics were ineffective. There is no need for me to be desperate in painting smith's post as a joke, because such a conclusion seems transparently obvious to anyone who reads it, and even you yourself won't go out on a limb far enough to say otherwise. The only thing that I have been desperate about is to try to get you to actually explain your own posts.
I've laid out the thought process repeatedly. In fact, your opening betrays that fact as you accuse me of changing the timeline. Which is it? Did I lay nothing out? Or is what I laid out insufficient?

Nah, on page you say someone's buddying it's good enough to get things going. He was buddying. Yet, you are always there trying to force alternative explanations down my throat and claiming it's scummy not to agree. You tried to shove "joking" down my throat and now you're trying to say town buddying. Town buddying on page , why? You're the one that needs to justify it.

You were the first to claim joke. I don't believe in joke RVS. I told you as much. I even analyzed supposing your "joke" assertion was correct. Jokes that shade are scummy. I don't think mhsmith was joking at all.

Again, wildly throwing shade around is scummy, jokes or not. There are no "RVS jokes". That's just scum flailing.

You have opted to ignore my succinct to the point rationale and instead dismiss everything as a "joke" by mhsmith. He's no jokester.
Titus wrote:[url"]http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=#p[/url"]

There you go mhsmith/wgeurts.
Titus wrote:
pisskop wrote::<

titus is posting links to games where I get lynched as scum.

I dont get lynched as scum all that often. Hell, my win record as scum is like %
That's actually a coincidence. I posted it to show there's no such thing as joke RVS.

Mastina hydra joked I always drew scum and voted me. (Was scum)
Dave joked I always drew scum and voted me. (was scum)
Blackest Magic joked I drew scum and voted me. (was scum)
mhsmith "joked" that I was scum because I struggled with the vote counter and voted me. (alignment undetermined.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Titus wrote:I've laid out the thought process repeatedly. In fact, your opening betrays that fact as you accuse me of changing the timeline. Which is it? Did I lay nothing out? Or is what I laid out insufficient?

Nah, on page you say someone's buddying it's good enough to get things going. He was buddying. Yet, you are always there trying to force alternative explanations down my throat and claiming it's scummy not to agree. You tried to shove "joking" down my throat and now you're trying to say town buddying. Town buddying on page , why? You're the one that needs to justify it.

You were the first to claim joke. I don't believe in joke RVS. I told you as much. I even analyzed supposing your "joke" assertion was correct. Jokes that shade are scummy. I don't think mhsmith was joking at all.

Again, wildly throwing shade around is scummy, jokes or not. There are no "RVS jokes". That's just scum flailing.

You have opted to ignore my succinct to the point rationale and instead dismiss everything as a "joke" by mhsmith. He's no jokester.
You're changing the timeline of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And you have not laid out your thought processes repeatedly. For example, I've asked you at least three times what prompted your "Can we lynch smith now?" post, and you've refused to acknowledge it. You've also refused to give a straight answer about to what degree you interpreted smith's post to be serious or a joke, even going as far as to argue that such a distinction is merely a matter of semantics. In this post, you're now asserting that you don't actually think smith was joking, despite the fact that you've repeatedly asserted that "jokes throwing shade" are wolfy. Now that you're finally taking a stand that you don't think smith was joking at all, the burden is on you, the prosecutor, to actually make the case. So far you've mostly just danced around all of the relevant issues.
Nope. The burden is on whoever is changing minds. You're not going to vote smith because the truth of smith being scum isn't enough. I don't need all of you, just some of you.

Smith has been obvious scum since his introduction. The cheeky "caught up". There's nothing townie about him.

You want to derail his wagon, you find a better suspect.

@Thor,

) You should be familiar with the tell, because you've played more with DGB and Mollie than I have. One of them uses it.
) I laid evidence that jokes that throw shade are bad regardless of who does them.
) You agree that mhsmith isn't scumhunting but claim this isn't enough because no one else is. Like dude, shade patrol is out in full force.
) If you think obvtown is a bad stance to take, why didn't you pressure pisskop for it? I've taken obvtown stances and been right before. I'm frankly a better townhunter than I am a scumhunter. When I work from PoE, I am at my best.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Thor wrote:
MysteriousLad wrote:Yellow has made it overwhelmingly clear that she never voted Titus as a genuine vote, but to demonstrate the sites voting mechanics.
Do you disagree?

I find it a little hard to believe you're unaware of this, neither do I understand why you persist.
His point is the one Chuck made - Yellow made a "joke" that cast shade.
He's asking why that got him grief and not Yellow.
The implication is that Titus is applying scumtells without logic, or that Titus has a marked agenda for who she wants lynched. Both raise issues with Titus' current push.

Now do you understand why he brought it up?
I think that this is slightly off, actually. smith was responding to this line from Titus:

[quote"]mhsmith "joked" that I was scum because I struggled with the vote counter and voted me. (alignment undetermined.
The post that is described here was written by Yellow, but Titus seems to be attributing it to smith. (Hence smith refers to it as mis-remembering events).
Ok that's fair. Given the number of allegations that mhsmith was joking, I did get something shifted in my notes.

Yellow wasn't clearly wasn't shade joking.[/quote]
Titus wrote:[MENTION="]soah[/MENTION"], You and I have very different views on "good" village play. Good village play to me is nailing scum and then persuading the thread to follow you and sheeping if confused and giving your townreads space to investigate. What's yours?
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:
Titus wrote:[MENTION="]soah[/MENTION"], You and I have very different views on "good" village play. Good village play to me is nailing scum and then persuading the thread to follow you and sheeping if confused and giving your townreads space to investigate. What's yours?
If your attempts to persuade other players result in all of the active players expressing bafflement at what you're trying to say, and your reaction is to complain about how everyone other than yourself is an idiot, then you're not even meeting your own definition of good play.
Do you see me giving up? Fuck no. I cannot control the comprehension of others. I can control continuing to pummel Smith into the ground because he's scum.
Titus wrote:And what are we supposed to draw from this self meta flail spam mhsmith?

If you're aware of your meta, you can do whatever you want with it?
Titus wrote:
UpsideDownChuck wrote:
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:If your attempts to persuade other players result in all of the active players expressing bafflement at what you're trying to say, and your reaction is to complain about how everyone other than yourself is an idiot, then you're not even meeting your own definition of good play.
Do you see me giving up? Fuck no. I cannot control the comprehension of others. I can control continuing to pummel Smith into the ground because he's scum.
Titus the idea that smith's joke was intended to 'throw shade' at Yellow in any real way is preposterous. So it the idea that that's a reliable tell, witness your own townread on Yellow.

At one point you indicated you believed that smith went after you for struggling with the vote counter, then it was pointed out to you that that was not the case. That seemingly hasn't shaken your confidence any, neither have people talking about how you were misreading Yellow's intent in her joke post (which could more reasonably be construed as shade-throwy). What gives?
Yellow didn't throw shade. That's your interpretation.
mhsmith has thrown shade at everyone here, one instance not withstanding that I misinterpreted.
mhsmith rather than scumhunt has basically put up a bunch of self-meta and told the thread to go find reasons why he's town.
Titus wrote:
UpsideDownChuck wrote:
Titus wrote:
UpsideDownChuck wrote:Titus the idea that smith's joke was intended to 'throw shade' at Yellow in any real way is preposterous. So it the idea that that's a reliable tell, witness your own townread on Yellow.

At one point you indicated you believed that smith went after you for struggling with the vote counter, then it was pointed out to you that that was not the case. That seemingly hasn't shaken your confidence any, neither have people talking about how you were misreading Yellow's intent in her joke post (which could more reasonably be construed as shade-throwy). What gives?
Yellow didn't throw shade. That's your interpretation.
mhsmith has thrown shade at everyone here, one instance not withstanding that I misinterpreted.
mhsmith rather than scumhunt has basically put up a bunch of self-meta and told the thread to go find reasons why he's town.
To be clear I don't really think either of them were throwing shade in a meaningful way (I hate that phrase in mafia by the way, it seems like a way of mischaracterizing people's scumhunting attempts). But if someone told me one of these was throwing shade:
Yellow wrote:
mhsmith wrote:[v"]yellow[/v"]
choo choo

Yellow, specifically tell us why you thought Titus was worth a vote there after she (tried to) vote me after my back and forth with soah? Any opinion on me or soah? Or spider for that matter?
Titus, you, and Soah are clearly all scum. Her struggling with the vote thing was just a ploy to get us to think she's an innocent townie. You and Soah are obviously scum-buddies trying to distance in the beginning while it's safe.

Spider is conf. town. Only town worries about their avatars. Everyone knows that. I realize that pisskop is heavily trolling, but he's town too.

Solved the game in . hours. New record.
mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.
It would be the former.

I'm not sure how your second and third points are even compatible with each other. Is it possible that what you're calling 'throwing shade' is actually his style of scumhunting, which differs appreciably from what you're used to?
No. I've played with mhsmith. He doesn't do this when pressured.

The idea is a joke that throws shade. Yellow wasn't joking. She was calling out a baseless scumteam to get the game going.

There can only be one yellow so you're scum is a joke like Titus rands scum a lot so vote her. It's not scumhunting at all.

Like, you can keep saying reality isn't true, it is true.
Titus wrote:
mhsmith wrote:
Thor wrote:
Yellow wrote:@Thor - I've already listed the people I've played with. I've never played with mhsmith before. You can have your meta, but I'm going to hold out hope, for his sake, that this isn't his typical approach.
I've played with him and am saying that he doesn't fake stupid.
Is your current theory that

. I am utterly wrong in my awareness of him.
. I am his scumbuddy lying to protect him.
. He changed his playstyle for this game in order to fool people.

I see a lot of 'meh' there.

You should vote Azure.
While it's true that I don't fake stupid, to my recollection, I don't think you've seen my wolf game. Have you in the past read any of my wolf games? Why are you under the impression that I don't fake stupid as a wolf? Or do you merely think I tend to be derpy as town?
Are you seriously arguing "I'm too dumb to be scum right now?"
Titus wrote:
Yellow wrote:
mhsmith wrote:I'm not really seeing the obv!town from yellow, but maybe I'm just being a dumbass. Is it as soah described or more than that?

[MENTION="]Yellow[/MENTION"]: were you aware that your vote on Titus wasn't counted when you made it? If so why didn't you just tell me when I first asked you about it?
I explained it in my very first post. In the post where I was doing the "voting". Your response looked like (still looks like) a retarded line of questioning. I responded in a way I thought fitting. You asked again after the vote count came out and it clearly wasn't there. So I figured on the off chance that you really were that obtuse, I even quoted it to you in red.

Now, you can keep asking about the same thing over and over again. You can keep at it all the way up to your deathbed. But I'm done responding. It's just making it harder and harder for me to be civil. Ask others what they think of it, turn it into the most convincing case mafia universe has ever seen. IDGAF, but don't look for me to rehash this again with you.
*sees the word "retarded"*, *hears nails on a chalkboard*

Ok, I'm going to try this again. Your post was scumhunting by suggesting a team. mhsmith has been shading people without solving them. How the fuck is that "selective"? I'm not pressuring people for being town.

And yes, I do agree people being dumb makes it harder to be civil.
Titus wrote:
mhsmith wrote:
Titus wrote:
Yellow wrote:I explained it in my very first post. In the post where I was doing the "voting". Your response looked like (still looks like) a retarded line of questioning. I responded in a way I thought fitting. You asked again after the vote count came out and it clearly wasn't there. So I figured on the off chance that you really were that obtuse, I even quoted it to you in red.

Now, you can keep asking about the same thing over and over again. You can keep at it all the way up to your deathbed. But I'm done responding. It's just making it harder and harder for me to be civil. Ask others what they think of it, turn it into the most convincing case mafia universe has ever seen. IDGAF, but don't look for me to rehash this again with you.
*sees the word "retarded"*, *hears nails on a chalkboard*

Ok, I'm going to try this again. Your post was scumhunting by suggesting a team. mhsmith has been shading people without solving them. How the fuck is that "selective"? I'm not pressuring people for being town.

And yes, I do agree people being dumb makes it harder to be civil.
Her post was scumhunting by jokingly selecting a team that she didn't actually think was the team? Is this really your read of what happened there?
Yes. Much like Clue. You throw shit out there. Then you get information. That's scumhunting. That's why I giffed her.
Titus wrote:
Secondhand Revenant wrote:
Azure wrote:Oh, and it looks like there's a vote againat me already. Yep, this is the Champs game all over again. Except this time, instead of letting it go like I did before, which placed a wolf firmly in my definite town read spectrum, I'll keep my suspicions.
Doubt it's something people will follow.

Thoughts on Titus and her argument against smith? I think it's fairly ridiculous to push him all day over that
You're smith's buddy so of course you paint me as ridiculous.
Titus wrote:
Secondhand Revenant wrote:
Titus wrote:
Secondhand Revenant wrote:Doubt it's something people will follow.

Thoughts on Titus and her argument against smith? I think it's fairly ridiculous to push him all day over that
You're smith's buddy so of course you paint me as ridiculous.
I've laid out why and I'm hardly the only one. Your logic is either terrible or scummy
You've recycled the "selective" point which I've already proven false, but you don't care because you want the attention on me and not on Smith.

Got any original thoughts?
Titus wrote:mhsmith hasn't done one ounce of scumhunting, yet everyone says my push is minor.
mhsmith has shaded everyone fucking here, yet, I'm excluding the rest of the thread, despite putting a read wall up and having reasons for all of it.
I'm selectively scumhunting allegedly because I honestly highlighted Yellow is obvious town.

[MENTION="]pisskop[/MENTION"], Not funny.
Titus wrote:
soah wrote:I'm gonna throw this out there:

A bunch of people are meta-defending Titus on the basis that she tunnels a bunch, etc. This is creating incentive for her to continue tunneling, in other words, if she's a wolf then she's being given a pass for not being more productive and even as a villager it might (negatively) affect her play.

In order to nullify this incentive, I'm going to point out that in her wolf game on this site, she death-tunneled someone all of day (and died that night), and in her village game on this site she came out of her original tunnel and won the game alongside the guy.
Tunnelling for me in NAI.

I just am right though so...


Because tunnelling, even if it's derp tunnelling, is if anything town-indicative for titus. The key is if it comes across as her believing it, not whether the case is actually good.
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Post Post #1974 (isolation #30) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:10 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1971, ɀefiend wrote:Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?
It's a bit hypocritical I guess, but why is it scum-indicative of Gamma to turn his face away from shadow's offered meta defense while on a different time and place using his own meta understanding to defend DEO?

Like, Gamma didn't seem to be saying that he somehow didn't care about meta in general, rather it seemed like he was explicitly rejecting shadow's meta defense, with stated reasoning of there being evidence of interactions that seemed damning (though why he picked shadow over vedith if it was "one of you two is scum" is possibly an interesting question I might want to dig into).

So other than it being vaguely bad-looking to reject a type of reasoning in one case and accept it in a different case, why does it actually suggest he's being strategic or materially hypocritical?
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Post Post #1984 (isolation #31) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:24 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Agreed
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Post Post #2154 (isolation #32) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:57 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1828, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 1822, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1818, KuroiXHF wrote:Hey, Jae. Glad you're here.
Anything you want to tell us about last night?
I'm not answering this.
OK, so at least I know you know something.
And that you're not willing to chat with everyone about what we both know.
Kuroi, do you want to talk about this?
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Post Post #2158 (isolation #33) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2108, JaeReed wrote:mhsmith0 has been largely unimpressive in a really bad way. I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative or just indicative that he's not invested in the game.
The latter but I don't really expect everyone to realize it. I'll be more involved when I get some more time I guess.
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Post Post #2159 (isolation #34) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:05 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2127, The DEO wrote:I feel really good about Gamma, Postie, Vax, and Creature ftr.
What in partuclar makes you feel good about gamma and vax?
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Post Post #2160 (isolation #35) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:10 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'll try and spend some time productively digging into zef/gamma/vax and figure out where my vote should go. Sorry for being relatively useless the past few days.
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Post Post #2169 (isolation #36) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:37 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2165, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 2158, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 2108, JaeReed wrote:mhsmith0 has been largely unimpressive in a really bad way. I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative or just indicative that he's not invested in the game.
The latter but I don't really expect everyone to realize it. I'll be more involved when I get some more time I guess.
This is literally the textbook definition of posturing.

VOTE: mhsmith
In post 2166, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 2160, mhsmith0 wrote:I'll try and spend some time productively digging into zef/gamma/vax and figure out where my vote should go. Sorry for being relatively useless the past few days.
What the fuck, meant to quote this post.
*grabs popcorn*
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Post Post #2171 (isolation #37) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:41 pm

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In post 2170, Postie wrote:The answer to this question should be no. We should not be talking about this.
Unless he's softing a guilty in which case he should just do it.
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Post Post #2173 (isolation #38) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:49 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2156, The DEO wrote:On Day 2, RachMarie Boring passed into Valinor.
On Night 2, LycanFire was killed. He was Tito, representing the nation of Yugoslavia, Town Delayed Death 1-Shot Informing Redirector.

Did anyone claim redirected?

~~Math
Not to my knowledge. I'm not really sure why he'd redirect there though, given that he seemed an unlikely scum kill, and a one shot like that is probably best saved for later.
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Post Post #2174 (isolation #39) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2172, Postie wrote:If he were softing a guilty you'd think he'd be trying to get Jae lynched. You can stop fishing for info now.
He was clearly softing *something* in a sufficiently obvious manner that there's no way scum missed it.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #40) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:08 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

@deo: yeah that's fine. I'm just skeptical he actually did use his redirect in that situation.
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BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2229 (isolation #41) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:23 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Not redirected

Deo (presumably)
Postie
Creature
Drealz
Smith
Jaereed

???
Gamma
Creeps
Zef
Kuroi
Vax
Klingon
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2790 (isolation #42) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:13 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

dreal, you played with creeps in Aero's game, how does that compare for you?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2796 (isolation #43) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:20 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

also you were with him in Ircher's game, where he made 3 posts, bailed, and then got endgamed
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

it seems this isn't especially AI behavior for him? i believe his only scum game on MS was http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
where he was, for a lack of a better word, obvious. So I kinda feel like he'd be obvscum here too. Maybe he has day chat, maybe he's gotten coached really well, but it just seems like occam's razor here would suggest that if he's scum, he probably screwed up somewhere pretty explicitly.
like...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8412445 was fake as hell
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8412626 was bad
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8416175 was bad
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8420474 was an awkward OMGUS while trying to call out OMGUS
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8425819 buddied me
etc
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2798 (isolation #44) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:21 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2792, Postie wrote:smith, your posting isn't what I remember from town!you. Talk to me?
yeah, i've been lazy and basically backburnered the game. I do that from time to time but IIRC hadn't especially done it in games we've been together.

Trying to catch up tonight, we'll see where that goes.

Or were there posts in particular you didn't think were normal for me? My guess is it's just the inactivity but if there's something in particular you want to chat about let me know.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2801 (isolation #45) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:25 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

wrt creeps, also compare early readslists

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8415868
as scum
note the attempt at paranoia on misa, while basically everything else was zero substance

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8594283
not much content, but the ss thing reads as pretty plausibly honest (no fake pings there), I don't think the lycan one read off either, and overall nothing in particular seems unreasonable

basically a nulltown for me unless I missed something
this game
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2802 (isolation #46) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:25 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2800, drealmerz7 wrote:DUDEsmith

I am not clicking any of those - if you have something to say, say it, please

if something is not necessarily AI then it is simply up to us to determine which alignment the player is in THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE and not use how they were about it in another game, but simply go by how it seems to you in THIS game
basically I have no reason to believe creeps is anything other than really bad and really obvious as scum, so if you want a push there then you need something that suggests that he really screwed up, or that somehow I'm drastically underrating his scum game
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2808 (isolation #47) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2803, drealmerz7 wrote:perhaps the fact that he barely said shit and when he did it was fishy as fuck and ppl scumread him and so he stfu and maybe replaced out because he felt like an obvious scumfuck?
did he have reason to feel that way? I mean he's not being wagoned rn. Actually...

@mod: why is creeps not on the current VC http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8722703 and the other day 3 VC's?


If that's been asked/answered nevermind I guess.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2814 (isolation #48) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

oh duh. looked at the OP saw he was still on the alive list.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #2821 (isolation #49) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:46 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Spoiler: VC Data
Votecount 1.06:
KillTheStory
(6): The DEO, Creature, Creeps20, drealmerz7, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
,
The DEO (1): KuroiXHF
Creature (1):
boring


Not Voting: Postie, Vaxkiller, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.09:

KillTheStory
(5): The DEO, Creature, Creeps20, drealmerz7, Klingoncelt
Gamma Emerald (3): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
, mhsmith0
Postie (2): Gamma Emerald
The DEO (1): KuroiXHF
Creature (1):
boring


Not Voting: Postie, Vaxkiller, ɀefiend,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.11:

KillTheStory
(5): The DEO, Creature, Creeps20, drealmerz7, Klingoncelt
Postie (3): Gamma Emerald,
boring

Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend,
LycanFire
, KuroiXHF

Votecount 1.15:

KillTheStory
(4): The DEO, Creature, Creeps20, drealmerz7
boring
(3): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory

Postie (1):
boring

Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.18:


boring
(3): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Creeps20
KillTheStory
(2): The DEO, drealmerz7
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.19:

boring
(4): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald, The DEO
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Creeps20
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.20:

Creature (3): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Creeps20
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1): The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.21:

Creature (3): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Creeps20
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2): Vaxkiller,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1): The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.25:

Creature (3): KuroiXHF, Gamma Emerald
KillTheStory
(3): drealmerz7, Creeps20, The DEO
Postie (2):
boring
, Creature
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
, Vaxkiller
Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.27:

KillTheStory
(7): drealmerz7, Creeps20, The DEO, Gamma Emerald, Creature, Klingoncelt
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
, Vaxkiller
Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1): KuroiXHF
Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend

Votecount 1.30:

KillTheStory
(4): drealmerz7, Creeps20, The DEO, Creature
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
, Vaxkiller
Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1): KuroiXHF
Vaxkiller (1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Gamma Emerald, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.35:

KillTheStory
(6): drealmerz7, Creeps20, The DEO,
boring
, Creature, Klingoncelt
Vaxkiller (3):
LycanFire
, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1): Vaxkiller
Creature (1): KuroiXHF
KuroiXHF (1):
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend

Votecount 1.36:

KillTheStory
(9): drealmerz7, The DEO,
boring
, Creature, Klingoncelt,
LycanFire
, Creeps20, Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1): Vaxkiller
Creature (1): KuroiXHF
KuroiXHF (1):
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend



Votecount 2.40:

boring
(3): The DEO, Creature, drealmerz7
Creature (1): KuroiXHF
LycanFire
(1): Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend,
boring
, Klingoncelt,
LycanFire
, Creeps20, Gamma Emerald, JaeReed, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.48:

boring
(7): The DEO, Creature, ɀefiend, drealmerz7, JaeReed, Klingoncelt, Creeps20
Creature (1): KuroiXHF
LycanFire
(1): Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.53:

LycanFire
(4): Vaxkiller, The DEO, JaeReed, ɀefiend
boring
(3): Creature, drealmerz7, Creeps20
Creature (1): KuroiXHF

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0, Klingoncelt

Votecount 2.56:

LycanFire
(7): Vaxkiller, The DEO, JaeReed, ɀefiend, KuroiXHF, Klingoncelt, drealmerz7
boring
(2): Creature, Creeps20

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.60:

boring
(5): Creeps20, KuroiXHF, JaeReed, The DEO, Klingoncelt
LycanFire
(4): Vaxkiller, ɀefiend, Creature, drealmerz7

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.62:

boring
(4): Creeps20, KuroiXHF, The DEO, drealmerz7
LycanFire
(2): ɀefiend, Creature

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0, Vaxkiller, Klingoncelt, JaeReed,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.64:

boring
(7): Creeps20, KuroiXHF, The DEO, JaeReed, drealmerz7, Creature, Vaxkiller
LycanFire
(2): ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Gamma Emerald, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.72:

boring
(9): Creeps20, KuroiXHF, The DEO, drealmerz7, Vaxkiller, Klingoncelt, Creature, Mhsmith0,
LycanFire

KuroiXHF (2): JaeReed,
boring

LycanFire
(1): ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Gamma Emerald


I've been playing around with some VCA thoughts, but frankly between the inactivity in large spurts from some slots, the multiple people who have weird vote restrictions (postie, gamma, and the d1 zef), and the lack of surety on boring slot (though the arwen claim and valinor result, when it seems like the role flavors don't much overlap at all, suggests scum [I also suspect she had a different LOTR flavor given that technicaly arwen never went to valinor in LOTR mythology, though that might just be nitpicky on my end]), I don't know that any of it is actually much useful.

Anyway, I'll try and give a full readthrough tomorrow, should have time for it then, maybe that'll pop up something more useful.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2839 (isolation #50) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:39 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

my nolynch list is

DEO/Postie/Jaereed/
Creature/FA/
dreal/Klingon

don't really have solid scumreads at this point, which is kinda annoying but *shrugs*

rereading but if anyone has questions in the meantime then @ me
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2843 (isolation #51) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2840, Postie wrote:
In post 2839, mhsmith0 wrote:rereading but if anyone has questions in the meantime then @ me
Are you scum? Because you sound like scum.
No, I'm a JOAT. Says so right under my username.

PS Out of curiosity, have you EVER gotten a useful answer from "are you scum"?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2848 (isolation #52) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2844, The DEO wrote:Math bought me drinks.

VOTE: Frozen Angel
? Talk me through how you're reading FA as being angry/spammy scum!FA instead of town!FA? She's one of my relatively stronger town-reads, and creeps seemed reasonably villagery (though not particularly good) while alive; what am I missing?

Like here you said
In post 2662, The DEO wrote:So one thing is pretty clear to me one of FA and Drealmerz is probably scum and if FA is then Postie is.
~~Math
but I'm not especially sure why one of them is scum ("FA is arguing" seems to not be especially alignment indicative, and I've seen plenty of town-town fights she's been involved in, if that was in fact the reasoning there)
In post 2834, The DEO wrote:
In post 2832, Frozen Angel wrote:I didn't make a case on you. I didn't in any manner insult you in any manner and I really don't want that to happen - sorry if you felt that way but I'm not sure what gave you that impression?
I practically just tried to poke you and you felt - really defensive - about me trying to communicate with you in a REALLY weird way and started telling some really wishy washy things that was obviously dodgy
now take your time and answer the questions I asked again. I will read Strahd tonight when I'm free and will think about the converse we just had then.
This. It feels like you are more concerned about being townread than discussion.
~~Math
Explain how? I'd agree that it might not have been a productive post for creating useful discussion, but I don't see how it looks like she was just concerned about being townread.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2853 (isolation #53) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2851, Postie wrote:
In post 2843, mhsmith0 wrote:PS Out of curiosity, have you EVER gotten a useful answer from "are you scum"?
Not that I can remember, but it never hurts to ask. :giggle:
If I didn't have an overall townread on you I'd probably be suspicious; the last time I was asked that was in Rio by Phighter (who was scum). Super easy question for scum to ask to look busy.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2856 (isolation #54) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:38 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

btw, is there some kind of theme attached to the other hoods?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2858 (isolation #55) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

yes
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2862 (isolation #56) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

i'd also, ftr, note that I'm entirely capable of churning out fake content that looks surface-level good as scum (if anything, that game was lazier than my usual scum games); my laziness in that game was the sort of thing you had to think about to notice, as opposed to my openly being lazy and inactive. I think that, other than micro 610 (which happened in the middle of a lengthy losing streak where I was basically shutting myself down), you'd be hard-pressed to find a scum gmae where I was as openly blah as I've probably been this game, though you're free to look at see if you can disagree
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #2867 (isolation #57) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2864, JaeReed wrote:In a word, complicated. The lack of emotional depth has me jumpy as fuck but I would not lynch him currently. There's a good possibility with what drealmerz has said that he is just disengaged completely and not trying to avoid anything.
I basically have been, fwiw. some of it was rl, some of it was simply multi-tabling, the latter of which isn't quite as much of a problem as it was not long ago. I've also, for whatever reason, tended to either REALLY get into games or REALLY not get into games. You can probably figure that out if you dig into my recent meta, if you're really curious.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #2871 (isolation #58) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:37 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

fwiw the people not in my nulltown to outright town reads currently are vax/gamma/zef/kuroi, still not really sure which of them I want dead (though as long as boring was scum, and the other two are in there, I'm not super worried)

my light town read on klingon is I think mainly based on the sequence starting
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8725882
some of that is simply the notion that scum probably wouldn't stick their neck out with that kind of read about "country" actually being "hood", although if somehow kuroi flipped scum a "just fake derp clear yourself" conversation in scum chat I guess wouldn't be impossible (also if KC does fake derp as scum that might weaken it, if people who know her have thoughts on that)
and yes I'm aware of how super weak that kind of read is, but I don't know that I have much better to read her on
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Post Post #2897 (isolation #59) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:46 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 2880, Frozen Angel wrote:bolded parts

why are buddying me and searching for a reason to scumread me?

who are the towns I argues with in this game and how do you know their town?

The last sentence was math agreeing with me about Drealmz obviously. How could you read it vise versa?
1) I'm actually expressing a TR there and wondering wtf the case on you was, since I couldn't find it

2) That was a meta read on you. Specifically I recall in Mini 1782 you getting into it pretty heated with Jake, and in the GoT game I recall you getting into it pretty heated with a few people (myself included). So to the extent that DEO was reading it as "FA is fighting, one side is probscum", I was making the coutner-point "FA gets into town v town fights pretty commonly as town". If there was some different reasoning DEO was using, making the whole thing moot, then it was unclear to me.

3) I misread what DEO was saying, probably because I was ISO'ing them and trying to figure out what the case on you was. That quote in particular seemed absurd as a point against you; that DEO was agreeing with you instead of attacking you probably explains why it didn't make any sense that way.
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Post Post #3045 (isolation #60) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3018, The DEO wrote:That is possible but I feel it is unlikely because of the fact that he then wouldn't be just skeptical he would be almost certain. The way mhsmith phrases it makes it seem like there is room for doubt.

~~Math
lets see...
In post 2173, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 2156, The DEO wrote:On Day 2, RachMarie Boring passed into Valinor.
On Night 2, LycanFire was killed. He was Tito, representing the nation of Yugoslavia, Town Delayed Death 1-Shot Informing Redirector.

Did anyone claim redirected?

~~Math
Not to my knowledge. I'm not really sure why he'd redirect there though, given that he seemed an unlikely scum kill, and a one shot like that is probably best saved for later.
In post 2177, The DEO wrote:@mhsmith, If Lycan did not use his redirect, then we force scum from making up he did later. The removal of scum narrative without outing PRs is good.
In post 2179, mhsmith0 wrote:@deo: yeah that's fine. I'm just skeptical he actually did use his redirect in that situation.
so essentially i conceded that it was possible, but unlikely, for the relatively straightforward reason that it was dumb to have used it, and the reason why I thought it was dumb to have used it was what I stated directly.

So to the extent you were suggesting that there was something useful in getting confirmation that no redirect happened, sure, I didn't mind you doing that. But i figured it was largely a waste of time because it was fairly nonsensical of lycan to have used the redirect in that situation. The reason why I wasn't certain of it was that I've seen towns do even stupider things than that (for instance, in the game jaereed just modded, town bizarrely decided to mislynch three of its four PRs - that would be an example of something that exceeded a poor use of a role power in terms of overall derp).

PS lycan redirecting dreal onto himself (as opposed to, say, back onto dreal) seems especially ridiculous. A redirect can be a fun way to get scum to target themselves with a night kill or other action; lycan redirecting anyone to target lycan makes MUCH less sense than lycan redirecting someone to literally anyone other than lycan (which agian makes rather little sense in the situation)
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Post Post #3054 (isolation #61) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3049, JaeReed wrote:I don't believe it's so ridiculous in this context.

Lycan thought he was going to be pushed to be the next mislynch. Given his ability should have had him live for this day phase, he could have redirected his scumread drealmerz onto himself in order to both prove that he's town, and prove drealmerz was scum through his death after redirecting drealmerz to him. He did clearly say something about us not taking him alive, didn't he?

In that case we still circle back to what FA was saying though. Something also vanillaized him for the kill to not be delayed.

In that case it's 3 scenarios:
1) Scum!drealmerz was meant to kill elsewhere while a buddy vanillaized Lycan and got kill redirected onto Lycan
2) Scum!drealmerz is also a vanillaizer and meant to kill/vanillaize either Lycan or elsewhere and got redirected onto Lycan
2) Town!drealmerz meant to kill Lycan with a vig shot and scum vanillaized Lycan so the delayed death wouldn't cause issues with their next likely mislynch
Except that lycan's role ability lets him act the night after he's mislynched, which means that there's relatively less risk of a mislynch suddenly preventing him from acting later (and the idea of self-clearing via death is IMO pretty silly unless you're SUPER sure that your protection target is town). From the perspective of Lycan having no reason to suspect a vanilla-izer, then it's still generally better for him to either holster (most optimal) or redirect someone onto a scumread of his (less optimal but not awful).

What seems more reasonable to you overall:

1) Scum!drealz shoots X, scum!whoever vanillaizes lycan, and lycan redirects dreal back onto lycan, solely for the sake of being able to talk during the day, despite having no particular reason to think that not only is dreal scum but that dreal is also going to be the guy who shoots him

2) drealz actually vigs lycan and the scum kill is stopped for whatever reason (BP, doc, roleblock, jailkeep, etc)

#2 just overall makes way more sense than #1.
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Post Post #3055 (isolation #62) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

so wrt vaxkiller, i briefly played with his scum game in FA's large theme (suck it panzer :mad: ), he made about 30 posts
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

obviously that's a small sample size of posts, but dreal, since you're saying that he pings you here as being similar to his town game, could you take a look at that set and let me know if your sense of his scum game (evne if it is multiball) strikes you as similar?
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Post Post #3076 (isolation #63) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:51 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

basically it's a villagery board so it's hard to actually get a decent scumread. also boring's non flip kind of screws with things.
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Post Post #3092 (isolation #64) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

gamma's actually back on site fwiw
VOTE: gamma

would lynch gamma, zef, kuroi, might think on creature if someone can make a good case
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Post Post #3093 (isolation #65) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:07 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3085, KuroiXHF wrote:and maaaaybe Creature for gut reasons
feel free to expound on this btw. My TR there is largely due to his role at this point.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #3107 (isolation #66) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:32 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3100, JaeReed wrote:I don't think The DEO will want Gamma on the table, though.
That does not strike me as especially menaingful. FWIW I recall in FA's game that Mathblade in particular struggled at reading their hood; IIRC they were hard-scum reading Mirhawk (town) and at least for a whlie not particularly suspecting DS (scum A) or Panzer (scum B) very much. And that's not something that I would say is unique to Mathblade either; hoods in general are very difficult to read well (see the recent FakeGod Large as another example of multiple people being outright awful at this). So "gamma looks good in the hood" seems like an especially unimportant reason to be TR'ing him at this point. I don't recall DEO saying why Gamma was obvtown based on on thread stuff and didn't see it in my ISO either, so no real clue what I'm missing there.
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Post Post #3114 (isolation #67) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

FWIW, while I don't especially love vax, he is showing some decent paranoia at and later, as well as at , and reads like an actual attempt to think through the game state. The main problem is, I don't especially see who IS scummy here, which either means that scum are playing very well or I've totally fucked something up along the line.
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Post Post #3120 (isolation #68) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:04 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

the latter part of 2651 where he talks about bouncing around the scenarios is where it seems like he's trying to think kthrough the gamestate. the paranoia in 2887 and subsequent relates to me. IMO the stuff on you in 2011 seemed fairly paranoid, although it's possible that I'm misreading hedginess I guess.
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Post Post #3165 (isolation #69) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:11 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

vax, if you investigated a VT or goon, would you get 1 or 0 as your answer?
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Post Post #3167 (isolation #70) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:13 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

also vax, what in particular made you investigate lycan last night?
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Post Post #3171 (isolation #71) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:29 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

@DEO: He's actually claiming a super weak version of role cop, which is WAY different than actual alignment cop (regardless of site meta, I'd be in the camp of "don't lynch the claimed alignment cop way before LYLO if that was the actual claim, but clearly it isn't).

Still want my two questions to him answered though. Both seem super straightforward and easy if he is what he claims to be.
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Post Post #3178 (isolation #72) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:44 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Math, just so we're clear, you are aware that was a hammer thrown down before Vax had a chance to answer those questions?
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Post Post #3181 (isolation #73) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:45 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3176, The DEO wrote:Zefiend care to explain why you don't like it?

~~Math
I will say that this is still a useful question to get answered, even if RC locks thread and it has to be tomorrow.
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Post Post #3183 (isolation #74) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:46 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3180, The DEO wrote:Should have been L-1 by my count?
In post 3125, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In Memory


Votecount 3.126:


Vaxkiller (4): JaeReed, Gamma Emerald, Klingoncelt
The DEO (2): Vaxkiller, KuroiXHF
Gamma Emerald (2): Mhsmith0, drealmerz7
ɀefiend (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO
drealmersz7 (0):
KuroiXHF (0):
Creature (0):
Postie (0):
JaeReed (0):
Klingoncelt (0):

Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel

With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2017-01-19 21:00:00).

GE has until late tonight to post or I will start seeking a replacement.
Creature has been prodded.
In post 3144, Creature wrote:Okay

VOTE: Vax
In post 3149, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 3148, KuroiXHF wrote:Vax

We shouldn't ever get this close to the deadline so far from the necessary amount of votes.
VOTE: Vax
EBWOP
:neutral:
was L-1 before you hammered
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Post Post #3184 (isolation #75) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:46 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3182, The DEO wrote:Zefiend unvoted?
he unvoted me, not vax
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Post Post #3189 (isolation #76) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:58 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

btw, does anyone who knows math know whether derp-hammering like that is at all AI for them? Like, is this something she does as either alingment normally, neither alignment normally, etc.? It seems kind of odd that they'd throw down a vote near majority without double-checking the votes, but idk if that's just a sloppy playstyle kind of thing and I shouldn't read into it.
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Post Post #3195 (isolation #77) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:10 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3191, Vaxkiller wrote:
In post 3189, mhsmith0 wrote:btw, does anyone who knows math know whether derp-hammering like that is at all AI for them? Like, is this something she does as either alingment normally, neither alignment normally, etc.? It seems kind of odd that they'd throw down a vote near majority without double-checking the votes, but idk if that's just a sloppy playstyle kind of thing and I shouldn't read into it.
Nice shade, scum
That's not shade, that's a legitimate questino about whether Math's sloppiness (which is transparently what happened if they were town) is legitimate or if it should be read into. Some players are in fact sufficiently sloppy that it's reasonably within what we shoudl expect; I don't know Math well enough to know if it applies to them or not, thus I punted the quesiton to the group.
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Post Post #3197 (isolation #78) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:11 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3194, The DEO wrote:Fyi Titus and I are in agreement mhsmith and zefiend are scum.

~~Math
Remind me why for each of us?
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Post Post #3201 (isolation #79) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:17 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3198, The DEO wrote:Titus said to wait and see if Zefiend interacted with your wagon. I did.

She said if zefiend was scum he would avoid your wagon like the plague. I thought he was Town and so when I thought he unvoted I voted you.
I think zefiend is scum for the bait and switch.
What bait and switch? I don't recall zef ever supporting a Vax wagon, and in fact he's seemed reasonably consistent in his opposition to it, and him switching from me to Gamma is also consistent with having scum reads (as per his ) that he wanted lynched over vax, and building a counter-wagon to vax on the most promising of said wagons.

Like, if you wanted to argue that he was too neutral on vax, and didn't do enough work for derail a wagon he didn't like, that's not a totally nonsensical point, but I fail to see why you think that even that theory would be meaningfully indicative, and the "bait and switch" point seems to be completely unspported.

Discuss?
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3203 (isolation #80) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:20 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3200, Vaxkiller wrote:You have been off my radar because you have done nothing, but now you come in and start posting? LOOK AT ME, im mhsmith I'm HELPING!
Do you think the question itself is meaningless and useless? Did you think that the questions I'd asked of you BEFORE math's hammer were meaningless and useless? I guess I don't really see the theory you're advancing here, or why you think it's particularly scum-indicative to come in when your wagon is at L-1 and be productive.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3205 (isolation #81) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:25 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

FWIW, presuming a town flip I'd probably be most suspicious of creature/kuroi, as both their hops on the wagon seemed pretty lazy, but I guess I'd want to go back and see if there was something relevant that I'm just forgetting about.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3208 (isolation #82) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:45 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

FWIW, I'm not sure if zef is correct on DEO ("muh feels" still say no), but I'm increasingly disinterested in lynching him. 3206-7 seem WAY more like town who's dead sure he's correct than scum trying to BS it.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3293 (isolation #83) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Spoiler: VC Data
Votecount 1.06:
KillTheStory
(6): The DEO, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Alisae
Alisae(2): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
,
The DEO (1):
KuroiXHF

Creature (1):
boring


Not Voting: Postie,
Vaxkiller
, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.09:

KillTheStory
(5): The DEO, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Klingoncelt
Alisae(3): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
, mhsmith0
Postie (2): Alisae
The DEO (1):
KuroiXHF

Creature (1):
boring


Not Voting: Postie,
Vaxkiller
, ɀefiend,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.11:

KillTheStory
(5): The DEO, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Klingoncelt
Postie (3): Alisae,
boring

Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend,
LycanFire
,
KuroiXHF


Votecount 1.15:

KillTheStory
(4): The DEO, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7
boring
(3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Postie (1):
boring

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.18:


boring
(3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
KillTheStory
(2): The DEO, drealmerz7
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.19:

boring
(4):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae, The DEO
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.20:

Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1): The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.21:

Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1): The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.25:

Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
KillTheStory
(3): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel, The DEO
Postie (2):
boring
, Creature
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.27:

KillTheStory
(7): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel, The DEO, Alisae, Creature, Klingoncelt
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend

Votecount 1.30:

KillTheStory
(4): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel, The DEO, Creature
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend, Alisae, Klingoncelt

Votecount 1.35:

KillTheStory
(6): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel, The DEO,
boring
, Creature, Klingoncelt
Vaxkiller
(3):
LycanFire
, Alisae
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1):
Vaxkiller

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1):
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend

Votecount 1.36:

KillTheStory
(9): drealmerz7, The DEO,
boring
, Creature, Klingoncelt,
LycanFire
, Frozen Angel, Alisae
Alisae(2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1):
Vaxkiller

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1):
KillTheStory


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend



Votecount 2.40:

boring
(3): The DEO, Creature, drealmerz7
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

LycanFire
(1):
Vaxkiller


Not Voting: Postie, ɀefiend,
boring
, Klingoncelt,
LycanFire
, Frozen Angel, Alisae, JaeReed, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.48:

boring
(7): The DEO, Creature, ɀefiend, drealmerz7, JaeReed, Klingoncelt, Frozen Angel
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

LycanFire
(1):
Vaxkiller


Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.53:

LycanFire
(4):
Vaxkiller
, The DEO, JaeReed, ɀefiend
boring
(3): Creature, drealmerz7, Frozen Angel
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF


Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0, Klingoncelt

Votecount 2.56:

LycanFire
(7):
Vaxkiller
, The DEO, JaeReed, ɀefiend,
KuroiXHF
, Klingoncelt, drealmerz7
boring
(2): Creature, Frozen Angel

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.60:

boring
(5): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
, JaeReed, The DEO, Klingoncelt
LycanFire
(4):
Vaxkiller
, ɀefiend, Creature, drealmerz7

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.62:

boring
(4): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
, The DEO, drealmerz7
LycanFire
(2): ɀefiend, Creature

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
Vaxkiller
, Klingoncelt, JaeReed,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.64:

boring
(7): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
, The DEO, JaeReed, drealmerz7, Creature,
Vaxkiller

LycanFire
(2): ɀefiend, Klingoncelt

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.72:

boring
(9): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
, The DEO, drealmerz7,
Vaxkiller
, Klingoncelt, Creature, Mhsmith0,
LycanFire

KuroiXHF
(2): JaeReed,
boring

LycanFire
(1): ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Alisae

Votecount 3.76:

ɀefiend (3): The DEO, Alisae
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1): Frozen Angel
Mhsmith0 (1): Creature
The DEO (1): ɀefiend
drealmersz7 (0):
Not Voting: Postie, drealmerz7,
Vaxkiller
, Klingoncelt, Mhsmith0, JaeReed

Votecount 3.82:
ɀefiend (3): The DEO, Alisae
The DEO (2): ɀefiend, Klingoncelt
Vaxkiller
(1): JaeReed,
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1): Frozen Angel
Alisae(1):
Vaxkiller

Frozen Angel (1): Creature
Not Voting: Postie, drealmerz7, Mhsmith0

Votecount 3.90:

Vaxkiller
(3): JaeReed, Alisae
ɀefiend (2): The DEO, Creature
KuroiXHF
(2): Frozen Angel, drealmerz7
The DEO (1): Klingoncelt
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Alisae(1):
Vaxkiller

Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0


Votecount 3.110:

Vaxkiller
(3): JaeReed, Alisae
ɀefiend (2): The DEO, Creature
The DEO (2): Klingoncelt, drealmerz7
drealmersz7 (2):
KuroiXHF
, Frozen Angel
Alisae(1):
Vaxkiller

Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0

Votecount 3.126:

Vaxkiller
(4): JaeReed, Alisae, Klingoncelt
The DEO (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KuroiXHF

Alisae(2): Mhsmith0, drealmerz7
ɀefiend (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO
Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel

Votecount 3.129:

Vaxkiller
(7): JaeReed, Alisae, Klingoncelt, Creature,
KuroiXHF
, The DEO
Alisae(3): Mhsmith0, drealmerz7, ɀefiend
JaeReed (1):
Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel


Probably gonna try for VC thoughts over the weekend. Other notes:

1) Really not seeing DEO as scum here. Like, if you ever wanted a solid case for "too wolfy to be a wolf" just go back and look at those posts around hammer.
3155 - hard town reading
3157 - still pushing against
some stuff happens
3175 - hammer
3180 - suggests derp on the vote
3185 - blah response on the vote count
3187 - blames kuroi for the derp hammer
3192 - claims derp
3193 - claims to suck at counting
3194 - deflecting onto different read
3198 - nonsensical read about zef

Like that whole sequence looks utterly terrible if vax is town, like nervous scum just blowing the engagement. But since vax was scum? There's nothing to be nervous about, since they knew they weren't gonna take heat for derp-hammering town. So yeah, that's a terrible looking sequence, but in a townie way.

2) I'm just gonna presume that vaxkiller targeted lycan on N2 and his team shot there too. I think that's kind of a weird shot for scum to be taking normally, but if boring was scum and they figured that lycan would eventually look good for it, that actually makes sense. Gut says drealz wouldn't openly claim that shot for no damn reason at all if he was scum, which probably means that it just happened to be a double kill.

FWIW, I also believe drealz when he claims to have not shot kuroi; I wasn't especially town-reading kuroi, and even mentioned in the PT that it was plausible that kuroi had made a lazy bus there, and I feel like he could have reasonably easily taken that shot and then claimed a "vig" for his trouble.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3353 (isolation #84) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:48 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3349, Alisae wrote:Hi, my name is meta, I can easily be manipulated.
IC time: meta is harder to manipulate than people think. Some things like "do I bus" are easier, but general tone, approach etc. are much harder for many people to play with.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3383 (isolation #85) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Can the two of you talk about stuff other than each other? I think you're both town, I think there's pretty decent odds that we're down to the last scum, and I don't really see the need for this to go another copule pages.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3392 (isolation #86) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:35 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I think sk is super unlikely given one death per night.

I think rm was scum given Lucan vanillaize and scum shot (why would scum vanilkaize him if they didn't shoot?)

I don't scum read drealz and don't think he shot kuroi last night.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3393 (isolation #87) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:38 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3391, Alisae wrote:Eh, just seemed like an awkward line but ok.
It's like he didn't consider the possibility of there being 2 scum.
Town flipped power so far has been pretty shit for 11v4, especially given scum vanillaizer and presumed self janitor. MAYBE there's a traitor out there I guess but full 11v4 means bad balance or strong town power still out there.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3397 (isolation #88) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I mean, I guess you can argue rn/boring was sk instead of groupscum I guess *shrugs*
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3400 (isolation #89) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:45 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3396, The DEO wrote:In order to set him up for mislynch because I was going to tunnel Lycanfire. No reason for scum to shoot what I would tunnel would be the answer to your question.
Why would scum bother to vanillaize if not to shoot? The one day conftown tree stump is WAY better of a death power than the redirect bit.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3401 (isolation #90) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3399, The DEO wrote:
In post 3397, mhsmith0 wrote:I mean, I guess you can argue rn/boring was sk instead of groupscum I guess *shrugs*
Or four scum. And you don't consider this because?

~~Math
I did consider it and stated it was unlikely due to what you called "pr hunting". Dead town and flipped scum power are NOT consistent with what I'd expect from 11v4.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3405 (isolation #91) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'm pretty sure Lucan role claimed before his death.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3406 (isolation #92) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:51 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 1417, Lycanfire wrote:I'm
Tito, representing the nation of Yugoslavia
.

I have two roles in one.

Dictator: [redacted]

Country: Delayed Death

reads

town { postie, kuroi, klingoncelt, creature, zefiend, deimos }
townlean { vedith, creeps20}
scumlean { gamma emerald, rachmarie, DEO, jaereed}
kingscum { drealmerz7 }

i've completed the notes for my reread but it's 5:30am, i haven't had any sleep and i work at 2. if you want to lynch me you can't actually get rid of me. i know i'm a dissident voice and that's annoying but you're stuck with me. one thing you ought to consider is that there will probably be a night after this day period. see ya later
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3412 (isolation #93) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3409, The DEO wrote:Yes...Delayed Death which means anything ubder the sun from like one post after death to doing an action after death.

The only way scum would know Lycanfire would treestump is if they had that info.

Do you claim scum rolecop?

~~Math
:facepalm:

I will claim a TOWN role cop action on lycan n2 tho. I was given a power boost n2 (and I know exactly who boosted me btw) and I turned into a role cop for the night.

Now would you like to guess how I knew drealz went nowhere last night or must i spell it out further?

Going to dinner now btw, will check in later.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3473 (isolation #94) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:51 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3471, Frozen Angel wrote:MHS using percentages how sure are you that drealm couldn't kill last night?
x = probability drealz is ninja
y = probability RC fucked up (I presume this is basically zero)
z = probability something bizarre happened with role interactions like a bus driver

Probability drealz did nothing = 1 - x - y - z (note that this is different than COULD do nothing)

I have no idea what x and z are, your guess is as good as mine.
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Post Post #3476 (isolation #95) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3474, Frozen Angel wrote:wait your claiming track?
I am explicitly claiming to have seen him go nowhere last night.
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Post Post #3502 (isolation #96) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:21 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3495, Postie wrote:Uh, there's a zefiend wagon. Join us.
FWIW he's VLA until tomorrow, I dislike wagoning people when they're not around. Probably my vote is there in spirit though.
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Post Post #3616 (isolation #97) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'm going to stick my head out and say I don't even slightly understand what's going on with cookies and messages. Would lol if Titus submitted "cookie bakers" (her hydra w shiro name) as her flavor.

^aka prodge :P
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Post Post #3618 (isolation #98) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:09 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Pssh. Sugar cookies (/ snicker doodle) and peanut butter cookies are both fantastic alternatives to chocolate chip cookies. Expand your horizons. Don't restrict yourself to just a single type.
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Post Post #3621 (isolation #99) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:15 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

smith needs cookies
smith hungry
:P
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Post Post #3622 (isolation #100) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Actually lets just do this
Image
:D
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Post Post #3625 (isolation #101) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:29 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Yep
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Post Post #3885 (isolation #102) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:54 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3882, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 3825, The DEO wrote:
What is more likely is Drealmerz is SK and mhsmith is covering it up.

~~Math
What possible reason would a player have to cover for an SK?

Why haven't you & Titus been lynched yet?
Do you think that Titus/math saying something ridiculous is scum-indicative for them? I would say it's town indicative for Titus as long as it comes w conviction; I admit to not knowing math well enough to say on that end.
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Post Post #3892 (isolation #103) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:03 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3889, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 3885, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 3882, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 3825, The DEO wrote:
What is more likely is Drealmerz is SK and mhsmith is covering it up.

~~Math
What possible reason would a player have to cover for an SK?

Why haven't you & Titus been lynched yet?
Do you think that Titus/math saying something ridiculous is scum-indicative for them? I would say it's town indicative for Titus as long as it comes w conviction; I admit to not knowing math well enough to say on that end.
Bingo!

as long as it comes w conviction
!

In this case it does not. She's just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. There's NO conviction, NO trademark deathtunnel.
That's the one thing givin me pause at this point. I remember seeing some stuff earlier this game where it looked like one or the other was doing the kind of tunneling I expect. I'll dig and verify... but probably nit till Saturday because smith lazy :P
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3900 (isolation #104) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:07 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3893, Postie wrote:Can we just lynch zefiend
Possibly but I'm not gonna get rid of a guy claiming health issues in the middle of the day phase.
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Post Post #3905 (isolation #105) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

You think alisae is scum and not just bait?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3917 (isolation #106) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:37 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3907, Alisae wrote:mhsmith what kind of bait am I?
fish bait?
loli bait?
Lynchbait
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Post Post #3921 (isolation #107) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:38 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3918, Alisae wrote:aww mhsmith you're no fun ;~;
See you ARE learning :lol:
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Post Post #3925 (isolation #108) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:41 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3919, The DEO wrote:I do not wish to lynch zefiend. Titus does. Mhsmith is the one place we agree.
So if you're against a zef lynch, why are you accepting of him being at l-1? Feels like pushing for my lynch, even if I'm not a current wagon, would be the productive thing to do given your shared reads and it being nowhere near EOD.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3930 (isolation #109) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Out of curiosity, do you actually think I'm scum covering for drealz the sk in thread? That seems... bizarre. Why do you think it's a reasonable idea?
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Post Post #3934 (isolation #110) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:47 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

If scum used vanillaizer on lycan, why do you think they wouldn't just shoot him too? It seems like a power use that has no point beyond making sure he can't use his death power.
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Post Post #3936 (isolation #111) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Like, if I'm scum the LAST thing I'd do is use a vanillaizer power on a player who has a conditional death power but shoot elsewhere. It's a total waste of a power to use it there while not killing him, when if you use it on someone else you might block a power that actively useful. Personally I think it's silly to use it on him on the first place, especially given the lack of hard knowledge about boring flip, but it's like 10x stupider to use it there while not killing him, which is essentially just wasting the shot.
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Post Post #3938 (isolation #112) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:51 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3935, JaeReed wrote:Could have been in prep for a mislynch on Lycan that would be forced through with the boring non-flip. Keeps confirmed town from finding the scum pushing them.
That's a good argument for scum not shooting him. I fail to see why it's a good argument for scum blowing a vanillaizer shot on him.
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Post Post #3942 (isolation #113) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:53 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3939, The DEO wrote:
In post 3934, mhsmith0 wrote:If scum used vanillaizer on lycan, why do you think they wouldn't just shoot him too? It seems like a power use that has no point beyond making sure he can't use his death power.
Because it would be a waste.

They can't have and have not paid attention to the thread.

Drealmerz claimed to be able to vig Lycan right around the same post as Lycan.

Scum would not waste a bullet.

~~Math
So why would they waste a vanillaizer shot? If the kill frames drealz, it makes more sense to let lycan stump and potentially push on drealz for the shot.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3946 (isolation #114) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:56 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3940, The DEO wrote:The vanillized makes sure he dies and frames Drealmerz. It is a matter of bullet economics.

~~Math
What? He's dying anyway (delayed death bit), what's the scum upside to having him non stump? Why aren't scum using that vanillaizer power on someone whose power is unknown or might not suck?
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Post Post #3950 (isolation #115) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3944, JaeReed wrote:It's a fine argument for them vanillaizing him. Lycan gets pushed and can sort the town and scum on his wagon while being confirmed town to lead. Vanillaized when he's lynched he just disappears and they only have to deal with unconfirmed living players.
But that's pretty dumb by scum in a role madness-y game with unknown powers. I guess I don't see the argument here at all. Like, not to be an asshole about it but lycan isn't a player who strikes me as a great town leader or someone to be feared to the extent where it makes sense to blow a shot just to silence him quicker instead of using it to hunt for town power that is actually useful.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3952 (isolation #116) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3948, The DEO wrote:
In post 3946, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 3940, The DEO wrote:The vanillized makes sure he dies and frames Drealmerz. It is a matter of bullet economics.

~~Math
What? He's dying anyway (delayed death bit), what's the scum upside to having him non stump? Why aren't scum using that vanillaizer power on someone whose power is unknown or might not suck?
1) Frame Drealmerz.
2) Unknown dictator ability.
:?: How is drealz MORE framed in that scenario compared to lycan being stumped?
I guess the dictator bit might be interesting, will mull that over. But the idea of vaniliaziing someone to delay their delayed death vig just seems so... dumb. I don't get it at all.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #3955 (isolation #117) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:10 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3953, The DEO wrote:Because it creates the exact scenario where Drealmerz is fishy. That we had before.

~~Math
How is drealz MORE framed in that scenario compared to lycan being stumped?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3957 (isolation #118) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:11 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3954, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 3905, mhsmith0 wrote:You think alisae is scum and not just bait?
Did you see those posts?
Have you seen alisaes town game? I guess I'd want to see an explanation for how it's specifically scum motivated instead of just bad.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3962 (isolation #119) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3959, Alisae wrote:Now I feel shamed.
A valuable step on the road to improvement. Like, I get that I'm being a bit of a condescending prick here, but I do think that you could stand to put more effort into removing the ascents of your play that get people to want to lynch you as town.

I suppose it might be a semi-intentional way of nerfing your town game to help your scum chances, but since you're usually gonna be town I kinda don't see the point if that's actually the case. And if it's not, I'd say take the time to work on identifying and fixing what gets you mislynched.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3963 (isolation #120) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:17 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3960, Klingoncelt wrote:It's done in hard defense of DEO.
So basically alisae is scum iff DEO is?
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Post Post #3966 (isolation #121) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:28 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 3964, Alisae wrote:And you had to write a paragraph about that...
Thats funny considering out of my completed games (key word is completed) I've been mislynched once (And you were moderating that game, we both know I played badly). Hell I got NK'd more then I did lynched. Sure it's out 7 games (4 of which I replaced in. and OH BOY IT'S 7 GAMES, SO SCARRY), 4 of which I replaced in. But you're implying I get mislynched a lot. And that's funny.
lol i presumed that was normal. fair enough i guess.
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Post Post #3967 (isolation #122) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:28 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

^"that" being the game I'd modded btw
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Post Post #4033 (isolation #123) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:12 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4022, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4017, drealmerz7 wrote:I don't think he's claimed to me in the hood really (slight hinting at some things?), I will look when I said what to him...

okay, first post in the hood for me at start of game I say that sometimes the good die young and that I was one of the best - totally ambiguous and we are both aware it is an early loss neighborhood by way of the role PM (well, I was made aware, so I make the safe figuring that he was)

nothing is said at all about roles and then I announce the thread that I kill lycan smith comments in hood about that revealing a little about his role in re: to that and I don't comment or anything because he willingly shared it with me after I shared about the kill - it gave me a very strong townping for smith at that point and I have had a good townlean on him since, btw (way back I said something about being pretty sure smith was town, this was why, I don't think he'd have said anything to me at the time I outted me killing if he were scum)
wait so he knew you were shooting lycan and checked him? You said he got a townread on you cause he got the feeling you were going to shoot lycan? This doesn't add up. why would he check someone who was going to die and he knew that already?
I didn't know that drealz was an actual vig and that he was actually shooting lycan. I don't think this was anything close to crystal clear in the thread, and it wasn't discussed at all in the PT until after the shot went through. My first PT comment of the day was basically along those lines as well, talking about how I felt really dumb about wasting a role cop shot on someone scum killed anyway and then feeling less dumb after hearing that it was a vig shot (I'm presuming this was what drealz meant about being a town ping).
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Post Post #4036 (isolation #124) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:14 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4032, The DEO wrote:Our neighborhood is the "Love" Neighborhood. So I am inherently suspicious of a "Death" neighborhood.

~~Math
Except that ours is a "loss" neighborhood, and that it's been confirmed by someone outside the hood to actually exist, and flavor is supposed to be independent of alignment, so I guess I don't see the issue?
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Post Post #4037 (isolation #125) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:14 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4035, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4033, mhsmith0 wrote:I didn't know that drealz was an actual vig and that he was actually shooting lycan. I don't think this was anything close to crystal clear in the thread, and it wasn't discussed at all in the PT until after the shot went through. My first PT comment of the day was basically along those lines as well, talking about how I felt really dumb about wasting a role cop shot on someone scum killed anyway and then feeling less dumb after hearing that it was a vig shot (I'm presuming this was what drealz meant about being a town ping).
you claimed to drealm partially before him shooting.

why then?
Incorrect. I claimed AFTER the shot went through.
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Post Post #4045 (isolation #126) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:22 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4009, Frozen Angel wrote:ok so I was thinking wrong about Mhs flavor

>.>

That was so fitting with his claim >.>

where did you stablish this? when have you claimed? I like to see the actual posts.
Are you asking about my flavor claim btw? I don't think I ever flavor claimed. Did you mean something else, like drealz flavor claim?
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Post Post #4111 (isolation #127) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I think it's currently two, drealz and deo.
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Post Post #4142 (isolation #128) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:35 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4134, drealmerz7 wrote:if you missed one, you can miss more
and you don't know, because you don't know
what is so hard to understand about that?
OH, your ego is in the way
But that's a town tell unless you think it's fake on her end
In post 4139, drealmerz7 wrote:my point is you are being an egotistical know-itall who can't be told anything and are just completely railroading your agenda above anything else and that you don't really get the concept of the game
You're accusing her of being bad rather than scum, and runaway ego is still a town tell for bulk majority of people
In post 4140, drealmerz7 wrote:you are missing every single one of my points, and it isn't hard to comprehend
you've really just got to be scum being difficult
That's basically null on her end; if in fact she's missing your points (without clear direction there on what points she missed and how she seemed to dodge them) it's possible that she's legitimately gotten frustrated and/or sidetracked by your engagement style, as opposed to intentionally trying to dodge your points.
In post 4141, drealmerz7 wrote:and shit like "finish my wagon or completely eradicate it" and "it should be obvious" shit is completely
asinine ego-driven awfulness
that you need to get in check
But that's a town tell unless you think it's fake on her end

Like, is there an actual case against FA that I've been too lazy to notice? Because literally none of this is a case, and if anything seems to be town-indicative.
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Post Post #4144 (isolation #129) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Gonna pull up part of one of my favorite quotes from my mega IC post
soah wrote:I don't have time to adequately respond to that post but one thing I can say quickly is that when I'm talking about emotions, I'm specifically excluding anger. It's the easiest emotion to fake and it's one that is often not alignment-indicative even when it is genuine, unless it can be traced to an origin in something distinctly villagery.

Emotions like pride, paranoia, surprise, suspicion, etc, are more difficult to fake. Wolves often fail to even identify spots in which emotion should be present in their posting, and their efforts at actually displaying more complex emotions are often quite clumsy, for example by stating their supposed feelings rather than displaying them.
You're basically accusing her of displaying a very high amount of ego in what seems to be a natural manner. So unless there's something fake about it, or unless you think there's something there that would more naturally suggest high ego from a wolf perspective, the whole thing just seems town-indicative on her end. If there's something I'm missing, feel free to point it out, but right now I don't see scum!fa in any meaningful way, just as I hadn't seen scum!creeps either.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4145 (isolation #130) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4143, drealmerz7 wrote:I resolve to:

it's just all a bit too convenient, especially with the bull-headedness pushing it through, insisting things are certain ways and then it's definitely not necessarily the case and I think they are a smart enough player to know that so why aren't they accepting it as possible? because to do so would permit her scum-genda to fail
What specific scum agenda is she pushing that accepting your logic would cause to fail? Why do you find this explanation to be more credible than "town!fa gets into fights with other players a lot and is just kind of pissed off at your engagement with her"?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4147 (isolation #131) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Town!fa gets into fights a lot. I've played with her town game twice, both times she got into heated fights and quit. She tends to be an emotional player with a quick temper. Admittedly I don't know her scum game well enough to know if temper is legit AI for her, but at the least getting into fights and/or getting distracted by said fights is not itself scum-indicative for her.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4148 (isolation #132) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Another example:
In post 4104, The DEO wrote:
In post 4102, drealmerz7 wrote:FA is scum because I don't think they are actually this incompetant of a player and are using the "whoopsies" as a way to shittify the thread, make us run in circles, waste our time and energy - these are scumtactics used to get town frustrated and demoralized

Good start.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

I think she is scum because of that:
--The contradictory I hunt by mechanics yet not noticing the mechanics claims.
--Outing of role information
--Not reading the thread closely.
--Not voting Vaxkiller.
--Her attack for the derp hammer didn't feel genuine.
--They are attacking as many people as possible but don't give concrete reads when asked numerous times. Instead they talk only about mhsmith and Drealmerz being reads.

~~Math
1) sloppiness isn't AI
2) at worst, SLIGHTLY scum indicative; towns do this a lot for various reasons
3) sloppiness isn't AI
4) vax was going down that day, and bussing a buddy going down is the easiest thing in the world to do. I don't remember what drove FAs claim to deserve credit for his lynch at , but at the very least I don't recall any effort made to save him
5) if she's scum, attacking someone for a derp hammer on her buddy during twilight seems effective only in a "well I totally wouldnt do that as scum" way. Strikes me as basically NAI
6) the closest thing on the list to a point, but even there it's weak

Like, if there's a case on FA I continue not to see it. So either enlighten me or go look for actually scummy people. On that note I should probably get around to rereading vedith for spew, probably doing that over the weekend.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4151 (isolation #133) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:03 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4150, drealmerz7 wrote:you can't say "sloppiness isn't AI"
scum can fake sloppiness and use it to their advantage, like fake derpclearing
And town can actually be sloppy. So it can be town or wolf, thus it's not AI, unless there's compelling evidence that it's a fake sloppiness, and "I don't think you'd miss this" strikes me as being weak on that front unless there's something super clear to you that I've just failed to see.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4153 (isolation #134) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:07 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4149, drealmerz7 wrote:which she doesn't seem interested in helping anyone but herself, it's all about HER figuring it out so SHE can TELL everyone else what to do
Congratulations, you have effectively diagnosed high ego town. This diagnosis will help you greatly in your MS career since you'll run into that kind of archetype a LOT :lol:
that's a scummy way to play, inherently, scum can hide in so much of all of that ^ - I find it likely she is, and it is certainly not healthy to discount the possibility that she isn't
It's a townie way to play, actually. Not necessarily optimal play, but it's actually hard as scum to fake a high ego solving process.
Now, I wouldn't lock her in as conftown or the like for it, but it's town-indicative, and is certainly not something I'd hop along to as evidence of any kind of compelling case.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4156 (isolation #135) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4152, drealmerz7 wrote:dude, anything can be anything

we've got to talk about this specific game

in this specific game, I think she is scum either 1.) using actual sloppiness to her advantage/being lazy and not caring about the details or, 2.) pretending to do so
I guess I'd like to see the evidence that this is actually the case instead of basically thinking it could be. It kinda seems like you have a read there and are stretching for a way to support it.

Like, where specifically is she using sloppiness to her advantage, and what advtange is she gaining by it? She certainly doesn't seem to be using it to drive mislynches; is she simply trying to lower our expectations for her play and coast that way? Something else?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4158 (isolation #136) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4154, drealmerz7 wrote:sometimes someone is a lurkfuck because they are scum skimming under the radar

sometimes someone is a lurkfuck because they don't have time for the game (and are town)

sometimes someone is a lurkfuck because they don't have time for the game (and are scum)

sometimes someone is a lurkfuck because they aren't interested in the game (as town)

so you can say "lurking is not alignment indicative" because you can't generalize like that in mafia, it's dumb, you have to analyze each individual scenario
If you're gonna lurker lynch, do so because you have a decent set of town reads and are POEing it, or because the game has gotten overly lurker-y and a policy lynch may actually help behavior. I certainly wouldn't think "this guy is lurking" is in and of itself a good reason to lynch.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4159 (isolation #137) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:13 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4157, drealmerz7 wrote:we're a week away from deadline

there's loads of content

you aren't voting, are you leaning towards anyone being likely enough scum that you're comfortable voting them? more than 1?
Honestly I need to invest time in re-reading the game before voting, since I'm not particularly sure. I was also hoping zef vs deo would go somewhere intersting and potentially indicative on one or the other, but that hasn't really happened yet from what I can tell.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4162 (isolation #138) » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:18 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4161, drealmerz7 wrote:you can't just write off someone's lurking as NAI, you have to look at it closer and see if you can get any leans on more specifics
Sure. And in the case of this game, I don't feel like you've substantiated your case on FA in a useful manner. You've talked a bit about how she COULD be pursuing a scum agenda, but I haven't seen evidence that she HAS been doing that, and the behavior you've described is in general more town indicative than scum indicative in a vacuum. So I guess if you think she's pursuing a scum agenda, do a better job of explaining what you see, preferably with specific quotes or references, and I'll look more closely.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4226 (isolation #139) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:52 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Do you think he's lying about the conditional exit then?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4228 (isolation #140) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:54 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Also, drealz and FA, could you guys disengage from each other for a while? I don't see how this back and forth is helpful or productive, would rather other stuff be talked about.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4238 (isolation #141) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:05 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 447, Creature wrote:Postie
drealmersz7
RachMarie
Creature
Vedith

Gamma Emerald
The DEO

ɀefiend
Klingoncelt
Clemency

Deimos27
LycanFire
Shadow_Step
Creeps20
KuroiXHF
^creature, why'd you town read vedith at this point?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4244 (isolation #142) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:12 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4240, Creature wrote:Let me try to remember why I was townreading Vedith 41 days ago.
In post 4241, Creature wrote:Probably because he seemed active.
That's a touch quick of a response. Did you skim his ISO for that, or was that just your recollection?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4247 (isolation #143) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:13 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4243, Creature wrote:From these I can only strike out dreal, Alisae, Kling, myself surely and maybe JaeReed.
What makes you suspect postie and FA? Also, why alisae for a strike out?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4250 (isolation #144) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:15 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4246, Creature wrote:I opened his ISO, I read and at the same time I was scrolling down and then I assumed I probably thought he was too active to be scum.
That's a bit lazy but I can see you thinking that since activity seems to be a meta indicator for yourself at times.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4251 (isolation #145) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:16 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4248, Creature wrote:Btw, I don't remember all claims. Can you tell some?
Drealz claimed a gated vig, having shot lycan n2
I claimed an ability that was boosted into a role cop on lycan n2, and n3 I saw dreal go nowhere
Zef claimed a one shot bp conditional exit, whatever that means
I forget what other claims are floating out there
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
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Post Post #4252 (isolation #146) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:17 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4249, Creature wrote:
In post 4247, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 4243, Creature wrote:From these I can only strike out dreal, Alisae, Kling, myself surely and maybe JaeReed.
What makes you suspect postie and FA? Also, why alisae for a strike out?
idk, I just don't feel like they deserve to join my personal townblock.
And alisae? Why a strong TR there?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #4255 (isolation #147) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:20 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4254, Creature wrote:I sorta think that at some point we'll have to massclaim.
Agreed. Not sure if today or tomorow is better for it but I'd think it's useful to do fairly soon.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4282 (isolation #148) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:46 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4281, Alisae wrote:but also mshmith asking you to recall why you gave them a TR all the way back then is also terrible.
Why? There were only 400 posts up to that point, and a distinct minority by vedith . It is perfectly reasonable for creature to be able to look at that game state and offer an informed opinion of what he was likely thinking, and it is perfectly forme toask himabout this.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4286 (isolation #149) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:50 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4284, Alisae wrote:
In post 4282, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 4281, Alisae wrote:but also mshmith asking you to recall why you gave them a TR all the way back then is also terrible.
Why? There were only 400 posts up to that point, and a distinct minority by vedith . It is perfectly reasonable for creature to be able to look at that game state and offer an informed opinion of what he was likely thinking, and it is perfectly forme toask himabout this.
And why would you ask him about this?
1) vedith slot flipped scum and creature had an early town read there
2) I wanted to talk about something other than the transparently unproductive dreal vs FA fight

Why exactly do you think it was bad of me to ask him this? Your questioning of me on this matter suggests that you think something was wrong with my questioning, so what's the issue w it?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4290 (isolation #150) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:56 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Fwiw, I'm also trying to see if I've incorrectly written alisae off as lynchbait. In a game where I've been struggling to get scumreads, the idea occurs as possible. Ditto the creature stuff, though there it was more the role claim and pro town power causing me to write him off.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4295 (isolation #151) » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:02 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4291, Alisae wrote:
In post 4290, mhsmith0 wrote:Fwiw, I'm also trying to see if I've incorrectly written alisae off as lynchbait. In a game where I've been struggling to get scumreads, the idea occurs as possible. Ditto the creature stuff, though there it was more the role claim and pro town power causing me to write him off.
eww...
A. scum can act like lynchbait too. So the fact that you were only TRing me because I was lynchbait is eww. Also makes me think you never had a read on Gamma when he was playing.
B. You're really trying to reach for a reason to SR me.
1) I wasn't sure about gamma when he was playing.
2) if and when I express an active SR on you, you'll know.
What was wrong w my questioning of creature again?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4347 (isolation #152) » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Meh I'll take my chances on zef lynch

VOTE: zef

If we're still going tomroow night I'll have time then, otherwise I'll kibbutz in the hood.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4365 (isolation #153) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4359, Postie wrote:mhsmith dies today.

Jae has a role that allows them to visit someone each night and gain a neighbourhood with them for that night and day phase, as well as "upgrading" their ability to a better one as long as they're together.

Jae visited me on the (missing) night 1 and my ability was boosted from a weakened version of a flavour cop that only gives me clues about a person's flavour, to a full flavour cop.

Jae visited me again last night and I found out from them that they visited mhsmith on night 2 and mhsmith claimed not only to be flavour cop, but that his flavour cop was boosted to a fucking role cop.
mhsmith also apparently tried to convince Jae to stay with him another night by suggesting that maybe the next night he'd become a full cop or some bullshit.

VOTE: mhsmith0

Lynch this with fucking fire.
I'm an odd night follower and an even night flavor checker. Flavor checker got boosted to role cop; my presumption is that follower would get an even bigger boost.

Incidentally alisae's flavor is slaking.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4366 (isolation #154) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4364, Postie wrote:
In post 4359, Postie wrote:tried to convince Jae to stay with him another night by suggesting that maybe the next night he'd become a full cop
And this is scumclaim, btw.
No it isn't. Given the boost I got to my flavor cop, it was ENTIRELY reasonable to think that I'd get a bigger boost.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4368 (isolation #155) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:21 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Also what EXACTLY do you think the odds are that there woudl be duplicate scum in the same neighborhood?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4376 (isolation #156) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

So apparently I was just told my odd night boost would ALSO have been to role cop, I guess feel free to believe or not *shrugs*

Anyway I'm Patrick Jane (from the mentalist), odd night voyeur (RC screwed up the naming convention but functionally it's a follower), even night flavor checker, and neighbor with drealmerz and zef (who zero posted in the hood, and was never acknowledged as being there until RC stated that zef could no longer post because he's dead).

I guess since Postie is being such a pain she can full claim next.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4379 (isolation #157) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4374, Postie wrote:
In post 4366, mhsmith0 wrote:it was ENTIRELY reasonable to think that I'd get a bigger boost
To a
cop
? No.
A follow is a substantially better power than a flavor checker, so presuming that the boost would be better than the one to the flavor checker strikes me as pretty reasonable, and there aren't all that many things more useful than a role cop. I think I speculated also about a super watcher, but I could be misremembering.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4380 (isolation #158) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4378, Alisae wrote:I'm getting an answer on this.
In post 4372, Alisae wrote:mshmith my vote today is a doublevote, right?
Beats me. I know you're Slaking, N4 was just a flavor check.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4391 (isolation #159) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:30 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Well I hard-claimed odd night follower, so if you really doubt me then after mass claim, no lynch and I'll follow someone tonight. If I get shot you'll be back on odds (dreals vig claim complicates matters tho I guess), an rb seems unlikely since no one else has complained about one yet this game, and if I follow someone it's either an innocent result or a ninja, with innocent much likelier I think.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4393 (isolation #160) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4390, Postie wrote:mhsmith, you need to claim your full results for everyone else you checked. If you claim you only used your ability on Alisae this entire game, we're turbolynching you.
N2 lycan role cop (jae and I discussed the issue about a possible janitor, and I figured lycan made sense as a possible check to see if that was the case)
N3 drealz went nowhere
N4 flavor check on alisae

This speed wagon on air is pretty interesting tho.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4395 (isolation #161) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4390, Postie wrote:mhsmith, you need to claim your full results for everyone else you checked. If you claim you only used your ability on Alisae this entire game, we're turbolynching you.
PS I'd already pretty flagrantly claimed my drealz went nowhere result from N3, and I KNOW that I claimed my role cop action on lycan in my hood with JaeReed; didn't he bring that up to you already??
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4398 (isolation #162) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:34 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4381, JaeReed wrote:Also, when I fused with Postie she was boosted to a slightly stronger version of the same role she had.
When I fused with The DEO it allowed both Titus and MathBlade to act during the night.
smith's claim of flavour cop upgraded to role cop makes no sense in light of that. It's a different role, and even if that was what happened with the boost, you then have the fact that he has claimed a slightly stronger base version of Postie's role.
Probably because my odd night power is actually useful, so the combined thing gets more of a boost than postie's claimed minor flavor checking ability. I hadn't realized that it was a role cop for EITHER night, because apparently I didn't understand what RC was saying or something.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4400 (isolation #163) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:36 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4397, Alisae wrote:So mhsmith why did you flavor check me and not drealmerz?
drealz seemed unlikely to be mafia given his no action on N3 and two scum in the same hood is pretty unusual (and that super quick hammer seemed unlikely bussing too), plus he'd already claimed his flavor in the hood.

Also IMO flavor checker is a largely useless ability; RC stated in the OP that flavor and alignment were unrelated, so it's not like I put much thought into the shot other than "here's someone not especially in my town reads I guess I'll look there"
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4405 (isolation #164) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:41 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4401, Alisae wrote:I'm not saying he's maf.
I'm saying he might be an SK.
Even if he was, why would he lie about his flavor? You can probably construct a weird houdini serial killer role, and it's certainly true that drealz is either ninja or went nowhere N3

if he's an SK, then going nowhere explains just 1 death that night, but I don't think I'd claimed an investigative outside of JR, which means that if he's an SK, then unless he has some kind of hood snooping ability, it makes no sense that he'd actually know what my ability was, much less that I'd use it on him in that case (I suppose I might have pinged him somehow in the hood, but even there it's safer to just kill me isntead of no kill I think)

and if he's ninja SK, then I don't really understand why there's never been multiple kills in a night.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4422 (isolation #165) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4387, JaeReed wrote:There's also the fact that drealmerz and smith both thought someone else was able to see the hood and I have no idea why they'd think that without one of them knowing it for sure and planting the idea.
Iirc I only noted it because drealz was talking about it. I suppose I could go back and look to see, I don't remember much caring about it.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4426 (isolation #166) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4379, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 4374, Postie wrote:
In post 4366, mhsmith0 wrote:it was ENTIRELY reasonable to think that I'd get a bigger boost
To a
cop
? No.
A follow is a substantially better power than a flavor checker, so presuming that the boost would be better than the one to the flavor checker strikes me as pretty reasonable, and there aren't all that many things more useful than a role cop. I think I speculated also about a super watcher, but I could be misremembering.
@postie: I went back to hood. I specifically speculated about MULTIPLE possibilities, alignment cop, super watcher, tracker+follower. Did jaereed claim I just said it would likely be alignment cop?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4433 (isolation #167) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:26 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Also postie, I think you were the one talking about "it's an RC game" wrt potential weirdness. Why does it seem unlikely for town to have duplicate crappy investigative powers (since flavor checker is basically useless)? That seems like an odd structure, but I don't see the balance issues with it. Why do you assume that it's any kind of important competing claims?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4434 (isolation #168) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:28 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4429, Postie wrote:
In post 4426, mhsmith0 wrote:@postie: I went back to hood. I specifically speculated about MULTIPLE possibilities, alignment cop, super watcher, tracker+follower. Did jaereed claim I just said it would likely be alignment cop?
No, he mentioned super watcher and tracker+follower too. It's still scummy af though.
Why? If I'm scum, and I'm getting a big investigative, that locks me into a set of claims right? What's the scum motivation exactly? It seems entirely reasonable as town to want to use my abilities more, and I fail to see idle speculation like I made as AI in any manner. Why do you think it's indicative?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4436 (isolation #169) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:33 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Btw I think today should be a full claim. We have two flipped scum, very likely a third that self janitored, and we have two important town pr claims that are still alive (the nice outcome of scum have apparently been shitty at finding and killing pr claims). In any realistic world there's just one scum left, and drealz vigging a useful pr would be shitty.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4437 (isolation #170) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:36 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4435, Postie wrote:
In post 4433, mhsmith0 wrote:Also postie, I think you were the one talking about "it's an RC game" wrt potential weirdness. Why does it seem unlikely for town to have duplicate crappy investigative powers (since flavor checker is basically useless)? That seems like an odd structure, but I don't see the balance issues with it. Why do you assume that it's any kind of important competing claims?
Fair point. My suspicion stems from a combination of the uselessness of it (if you're going to give out a useless role, why do it
twice
?) and the fact you're claiming a stronger version of my ability that gets boosted into something even stronger while I just get to be boosted into a role you already have. Your claim just makes my role and the option of boosting it seem really redundant.
Yeah it does seem weird. Otoh I actually did have a specific odd night action that makes a lot of sense to have used as town (I admit that I asked drealz to claim before I outed, but the motive of potentially trapping him in a lie, after endorsing a Kuroi shot as being acceptable, seems fairly obvious), and again I'm claiming I get to do it again tonight (potentially on someone who claims some kind of active night ability, which if they're scum presumable wouldn't be something where their action shows up but their kill doesn't).
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Post Post #4440 (isolation #171) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4438, Postie wrote:
In post 4434, mhsmith0 wrote:Why? If I'm scum, and I'm getting a big investigative, that locks me into a set of claims right?
Of course you wouldn't
actually
claim you got boosted into a full cop or whatever. It's just scummy because you want the boost
way
too much.
:?:

What makes you think that I wanted the boost "way too much"? I was speculating I might get a big boost from it because that made sense given the info at hand; it seems unnatural NOT to want to see what kind of future boost I'd get in that situation.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #4441 (isolation #172) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:45 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4439, Postie wrote:
In post 4437, mhsmith0 wrote:Yeah it does seem weird. Otoh I actually did have a specific odd night action that makes a lot of sense to have used as town (I admit that I asked drealz to claim before I outed, but the motive of potentially trapping him in a lie, after endorsing a Kuroi shot as being acceptable, seems fairly obvious), and again I'm claiming I get to do it again tonight (potentially on someone who claims some kind of active night ability, which if they're scum presumable wouldn't be something where their action shows up but their kill doesn't).
And you wouldn't do any of this as scum because?
In post 4425, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In Memory


Votecount 5.178:


Mhsmith0 (2): Creature, Alisae
Frozen Angel (0):
Klingoncelt (0):
drealmersz7 (0):
Alisae (0):
JaeReed (0):
Creature (0):
Postie (0):

Not Voting: Postie, JaeReed, Frozen Angel, Mhsmith0, drealmerz7, Klingoncelt

With 8 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2017-02-15 21:00:00).

Unless a mechanic effected Zefiend's death to allow him to continue to impact the game in some way, the answer is no.
^is alisae no longer a double voter?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Post Post #4443 (isolation #173) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4439, Postie wrote:
In post 4437, mhsmith0 wrote:Yeah it does seem weird. Otoh I actually did have a specific odd night action that makes a lot of sense to have used as town (I admit that I asked drealz to claim before I outed, but the motive of potentially trapping him in a lie, after endorsing a Kuroi shot as being acceptable, seems fairly obvious), and again I'm claiming I get to do it again tonight (potentially on someone who claims some kind of active night ability, which if they're scum presumable wouldn't be something where their action shows up but their kill doesn't).
And you wouldn't do any of this as scum because?
Well, I'm pretty much hard locked into such a claim if I'm scum, which seems kind of dumb.

Role play it out: if I'm the last scum, then my path to victory is... what exactly? I'd basically have to shoot anyone I "clear" on odd nights (or clear them fir a day then shoot), dodge multiple lynches AND potential vig shots, and that's without whatever other town power might exist. Conceptually, this seems kind of dumb on my end, unless you think I'm just playing for time and trying to make it a closer loss.

But if I'm the last scum I'm pretty much screwed anyway, so I'd probably try SOMETHIGN, so honestly it's probably null. What I fail to see, however, is why you think any of this is meaningfully scum-Indicative.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4445 (isolation #174) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4444, Postie wrote:
In post 4440, mhsmith0 wrote:that made sense given the info at hand
No it didn't. You
really
thought it was possible you'd go from what you were to a full cop?
Really?
Sure, it seemed possible.

Flavor checker is a garbage ability, role cop is a slid ability.

Follower is a solid ability, a similar sized boost would be... well, there aren't really many options, but SOMETHING better than role cop seemed likely.

Ignoring any of your own role info, given only the info that I had on hand, why do you think that's unreasonable?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4449 (isolation #175) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:06 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4446, Postie wrote:
In post 4445, mhsmith0 wrote:Sure, it seemed possible.

Flavor checker is a garbage ability, role cop is a slid ability.

Follower is a solid ability, a similar sized boost would be... well, there aren't really many options, but SOMETHING better than role cop seemed likely.

Ignoring any of your own role info, given only the info that I had on hand, why do you think that's unreasonable?
What did you think would happen if Jae stayed another night after that? Autowin the game?
I don't buy that you wouldn't see how horribly unbalanced and game-breaking it would be to just keep exponentially increasing someone's power.
The night after that I'd have been role cop again under my theory. So cycling through, regular cop then role cop, but under limited circumstances that aren't especially likely (jr targeting me instead of anyone else) seems reasonable enough, especially without knowing what other kind of power was out there. Maybe scum had a Roleblocker (it was actually a vanillaizer), maybe scum had a strongman (they did), etc. or maybe town had a bunch of crap power and mine was the only partuclarly useful one (mine and drealz I guess), etc etc etc (hell, maybe jr boosting scum would do something really bad)

Like, it could easily be balanced around, and without knowing the setup, why would I NOT think that's at least plausible? Especially since this was a theory I kinda tossed it as speculation as opposed to hammering on it being necessarily true? I still fail to see why it's fundamentally and obviously unreasonable.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4453 (isolation #176) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:14 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Fwiw, i plan to spend time rereading before reallly doing anything. Two flipped scum, a third probable flipped scum, there ought to be something useful there. Probably will do some vca while I'm at it too. But I'm lazy, so probably not until the weekend, MAYBE Friday.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4459 (isolation #177) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4457, Postie wrote:It would also potentially explain why zefiend didn't feel like talking in there. Being in a hood with a buddy of yours and a townie thirdwheeling has got to be an awkward situation.
Fwiw I can confirm that this is something that zef has done before. No posted in a hood with me and anen and davsto, he and anen were th scum team. Tho iirc he had like 1 or 2 posts there I.e. ignoring the hood, as opposed to simply ghosting and pretending like it didn't exist.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4460 (isolation #178) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=65920
Was the link. One hello post and that was it.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4463 (isolation #179) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:31 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Why wouldn't I? It's not my job to read myself correctly, and at any rate there's a difference between being super lazy about hood presence (like he was there) and literally pretending that you don't exist in the hood.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4468 (isolation #180) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:36 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4464, Postie wrote:
In post 4463, mhsmith0 wrote:Why wouldn't I? It's not my job to read myself correctly
But it is your job to convince us you're town.
It's my job to give you the info you need to read me, and obviously to fight against bad cases against myself. Beyond that, not especially. Being town read is more important if I'm scum than if I'm town anyway.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4470 (isolation #181) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:42 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4466, Postie wrote:
In post 4463, mhsmith0 wrote:there's a difference between being super lazy about hood presence (like he was there) and literally pretending that you don't exist in the hood
Who says he was being lazy there and not tactical? With the hood in this game being 3p instead of 4p, it would make sense that the lessened breathing room could make him resort to a more extreme version of what he did before.
In that game I think it was clear he was being lazy and/or uncomfortable talking in the hood w his buddy also there (I was similarly lazy for similar reasons - I was a mason w Ircher, and was busy inmmason hood and game thread, especially day 1). There's no strategic benefit as either alignment to ditching your hood in an all hood game like that one (my play in that respect was poor too).

In this game, it wasn't so much a choice to not have MUCH hood presence as it was to pretend to not exist at all. The thought process there is different; obviously it was a tactical choice, but situationally it wasn't the same. It's also inherently weird that he'd have avoided hood if his buddy was Deimos (a newbie who might need help) or drealz (better to tag team the newbie). Tactically spying on hood chat and hoping for a pr slip or something seems a lot more natural as a strategy in that situation.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
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Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4472 (isolation #182) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:44 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4469, Postie wrote:
In post 4468, mhsmith0 wrote:It's my job to give you the info you need to read me
How does the info you brought up help us read you correctly?
It brings up the situation where zef acted in a hood before. Maybe it's as I suppose, and this is further clearing on me and drealz. Maybe I'm wrong, and it actually implicates drealz. Maybe it's a total non sequitur and shouldn't be read into at all. It's info. It's possibly useful. Why wouldn't I bring it up as town?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4474 (isolation #183) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:46 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

He can't do anything first 7 days. D1 went a bit longer than that, so presumably he could have, just chose not to.
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4475 (isolation #184) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:47 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Also it's kinda funny to flagrantly being up zef meta after zef spent a bunch of time bitching about people bringing up meta
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Post Post #4483 (isolation #185) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

after zef died, RC posted that he could no longer post in the hood. idk hwy it matters whether he can view the hood though, since he's presumably not allowed to post outside of dead chat (as a mod, usually I let players keep watching their PTs after they die)
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4507 (isolation #186) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:43 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Correct.
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Post Post #4508 (isolation #187) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:49 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Looking back at hood chat, during the night kuroi died I explicitly talked about kuroi (or gamma) being a decent shot, he agreed that if he was vig he'd shoot kuroi... and then calimed no vig shot the next day in thread. It's just overall a weird progression if he was scum with zef I think. Him being on DEO as a scumspect around hammertime of vax was maybe a bit suspicious, but that's pretty weak for anything substantive, and at any rate he's almost always self-resolving.
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Post Post #4541 (isolation #188) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:57 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4536, JaeReed wrote:We're not massclaiming yet. Lynch smith first then if the game doesn't end massclaim.
This is incredibly dumb by the way. If I'm the last scum there's no cost to a mass claim, if I'm nit the last scum then you've just lynched someone who can hard clear someone tonight (hint: it's the latter).
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Post Post #4542 (isolation #189) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:59 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Well, that's if you actually lynch me anyway.

Can someone remind me what EXACTLY the case against me is? Preferably one of the people actually voting me?
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SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #4545 (isolation #190) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:03 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

No I SPECULATED that this might be the case, and have explained the logic behind that guess. Can you explain how that's actually scummy instead of just asserting that it is?
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Post Post #4547 (isolation #191) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:05 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

^i claimed an upgrade to role cop which is entirely consistent with the substantial upgrade DEO got (doubling their ability). Since JaeReed decided to blow their upgrade ability by repeating on Postie who apparently has a useless power, it's difficult to say how common such an upgrade would be, but there's clearly a reasonable analogue to DEO in what the upgrade turned out to be.
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Post Post #4548 (isolation #192) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:07 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'm an odd night follower, even night flavor checker. My COMBINED ability was upgraded to role cop.

DEO got to use both their shots when fused, my upgrade was somewhat similar in how upgraded it got. Rather than getting BOTH a follow and a flavor check (an exact analogue) I got a single role cop.
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Post Post #4550 (isolation #193) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:27 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

RC told me. Apparently I'd misinterpreted the original message, as he meant to communicate that I was upgraded to a role cop PERIOD, as opposed to just a role cop on that night.
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Post Post #4552 (isolation #194) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:29 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

No it ended after they left
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Post Post #4553 (isolation #195) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:41 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Can anyone explain why they're opposed to a massclaim today? "If smith is last scum and we lynch him game is over" is objectively not a good reason by the way, since if I was the last scum and you lynched me, mass claim wouldn't matter anyway.
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4583 (isolation #196) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:08 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4176, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In Memory


Votecount 4.168:


The DEO (3): Klingoncelt, ɀefiend, drealmerz7
ɀefiend (2): Creature, JaeReed
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO
Mhsmith0 (1):
Klingoncelt (0):
drealmersz7 (0):
Alisae (0):
JaeReed (0):
Creature (0):
Postie (0):

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Alisae, Frozen Angel

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2017-02-03 21:00:00).
@MOD: Can I presume the (1) on me here was a typo?
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http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4584 (isolation #197) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:19 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Spoiler: Updated VC Data
Votecount 1.06:
KillTheStory
(6):
The DEO
, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Alisae
Alisae (2): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
,
The DEO
(1):
KuroiXHF

Creature (1):
boring

Not Voting: Postie,
Vaxkiller
,
ɀefiend
, Malachite, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.09:
KillTheStory
(5):
The DEO
, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Malachite
Alisae (3): JaeReed,
KillTheStory
, mhsmith0
Postie (2): Alisae
The DEO
(1):
KuroiXHF

Creature (1):
boring

Not Voting: Postie,
Vaxkiller
,
ɀefiend
,
LycanFire


Votecount 1.11:
KillTheStory
(5):
The DEO
, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7, Malachite
Postie (3): Alisae,
boring

Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
,
LycanFire
,
KuroiXHF


Votecount 1.15:
KillTheStory
(4):
The DEO
, Creature, Frozen Angel, drealmerz7
boring
(3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Postie (1):
boring

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.18:
boring
(3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
KillTheStory
(2):
The DEO
, drealmerz7
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.19:
boring
(4):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae,
The DEO

Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.20:
Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1):
The DEO

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.21:
Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
Postie (3):
boring
, Creature, Frozen Angel
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KillTheStory

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

KillTheStory
(1): drealmerz7
boring
(1):
The DEO

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.25:
Creature (3):
KuroiXHF
, Alisae
KillTheStory
(3): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel,
The DEO

Postie (2):
boring
, Creature
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Malachite

Votecount 1.27:
KillTheStory
(7): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel,
The DEO
, Alisae, Creature, Malachite
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend


Votecount 1.30:
KillTheStory
(4): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel,
The DEO
, Creature
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (2):
KillTheStory
,
Vaxkiller

Postie (1):
boring

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Vaxkiller
(1):
LycanFire

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
, Alisae, Malachite

Votecount 1.35:
KillTheStory
(6): drealmerz7, Frozen Angel,
The DEO
,
boring
, Creature, Malachite
Vaxkiller
(3):
LycanFire
, Alisae
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1):
Vaxkiller

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1):
KillTheStory

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend


Votecount 1.36:
KillTheStory
(9): drealmerz7,
The DEO
,
boring
, Creature, Malachite,
LycanFire
, Frozen Angel, Alisae
Alisae (2): JaeReed, mhsmith0
drealmersz7 (1):
Vaxkiller

Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1):
KillTheStory

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend


Votecount 2.40:
boring
(3):
The DEO
, Creature, drealmerz7
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

LycanFire
(1):
Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie,
ɀefiend
,
boring
, Malachite,
LycanFire
, Frozen Angel, Alisae, JaeReed, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.48:
boring
(7):
The DEO
, Creature,
ɀefiend
, drealmerz7, JaeReed, Malachite, Frozen Angel
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

LycanFire
(1):
Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.53:
LycanFire
(4):
Vaxkiller
,
The DEO
, JaeReed,
ɀefiend

boring
(3): Creature, drealmerz7, Frozen Angel
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0, Malachite

Votecount 2.56:
LycanFire
(7):
Vaxkiller
,
The DEO
, JaeReed,
ɀefiend
,
KuroiXHF
, Malachite, drealmerz7
boring
(2): Creature, Frozen Angel
Not Voting: Postie,
boring
,
LycanFire
, Alisae, mhsmith0

Votecount 2.60:
boring
(5): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
, JaeReed,
The DEO
, Malachite
LycanFire
(4):
Vaxkiller
,
ɀefiend
, Creature, drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.62:

boring
(4): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
,
The DEO
, drealmerz7
LycanFire
(2):
ɀefiend
, Creature
Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
Vaxkiller
, Malachite, JaeReed,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.64:
boring
(7): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
,
The DEO
, JaeReed, drealmerz7, Creature,
Vaxkiller

LycanFire
(2):
ɀefiend
, Malachite
Not Voting: Postie,
boring
, Alisae, mhsmith0,
LycanFire


Votecount 2.72:
boring
(9): Frozen Angel,
KuroiXHF
,
The DEO
, drealmerz7,
Vaxkiller
, Malachite, Creature, Mhsmith0,
LycanFire

KuroiXHF
(2): JaeReed,
boring

LycanFire
(1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Alisae


Votecount 3.76:
ɀefiend
(3):
The DEO
, Alisae
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1): Frozen Angel
Mhsmith0 (1): Creature
The DEO
(1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, drealmerz7,
Vaxkiller
, Malachite, Mhsmith0, JaeReed

Votecount 3.82:
ɀefiend
(3):
The DEO
, Alisae
The DEO
(2):
ɀefiend
, Malachite
Vaxkiller
(1): JaeReed,
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

KuroiXHF
(1): Frozen Angel
Alisae (1):
Vaxkiller

Frozen Angel (1): Creature
Not Voting: Postie, drealmerz7, Mhsmith0

Votecount 3.88:
ɀefiend
(3):
The DEO
, Alisae
KuroiXHF
(2): Frozen Angel, drealmerz7
The DEO
(1): Malachite
Vaxkiller
(1): JaeReed
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Alisae (1):
Vaxkiller

Frozen Angel (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0

Votecount 3.90:
Vaxkiller
(3): JaeReed, Alisae
ɀefiend
(2):
The DEO
, Creature
KuroiXHF
(2): Frozen Angel, drealmerz7
The DEO
(1): Malachite
Creature (1):
KuroiXHF

Alisae (1):
Vaxkiller

Mhsmith0 (1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0

Votecount 3.104:
Vaxkiller
(3): JaeReed, Alisae
ɀefiend
(2):
The DEO
, Creature
The DEO
(2): Malachite, drealmerz7
Alisae (2):
Vaxkiller
,
KuroiXHF

Mhsmith0 (1):
ɀefiend


Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Frozen Angel

Votecount 3.116:
Vaxkiller
(3): JaeReed, Alisae
ɀefiend
(1): Creature
The DEO
(1): Malachite
drealmersz7 (1):
KuroiXHF

Alisae (1):
Vaxkiller

Mhsmith0 (1):
ɀefiend

Frozen Angel (1):
The DEO

KuroiXHF
(1): drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Frozen Angel

Votecount 3.126:
Vaxkiller
(4): JaeReed, Alisae, Malachite
The DEO
(2):
Vaxkiller
,
KuroiXHF

Alisae (2): Mhsmith0, drealmerz7
ɀefiend
(1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1):
ɀefiend

Frozen Angel (1):
The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel

Votecount 3.129:
Vaxkiller
(7): JaeReed, Alisae, Malachite, Creature,
KuroiXHF
,
The DEO

Alisae (3): Mhsmith0, drealmerz7,
ɀefiend

JaeReed (1):
Vaxkiller

Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel

Votecount 4.131:
ɀefiend
(2): Creature, JaeReed
The DEO
(1): drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel, Malachite,
The DEO
, Mhsmith0,
ɀefiend


Votecount 4.141:
ɀefiend
(3): Creature, JaeReed, Malachite
Malachite (1): drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel, Mhsmith0,
ɀefiend
,
The DEO


Votecount 4.145:
ɀefiend
(2): Creature, JaeReed
Malachite (1): drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie, Frozen Angel, Mhsmith0,
ɀefiend
,
The DEO
, Malachite

Votecount 4.151:
ɀefiend
(4): Creature, JaeReed,
The DEO
, Frozen Angel
The DEO
(2): Malachite, drealmerz7
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0,
ɀefiend
, Alisae

Votecount 4.156:
The DEO
(3): Malachite, drealmerz7,
ɀefiend

ɀefiend
(2): Creature, JaeReed
Mhsmith0 (1):
The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Alisae, Frozen Angel

Votecount 4.168:
The DEO
(3): Malachite,
ɀefiend
, drealmerz7
ɀefiend
(2): Creature, JaeReed
Frozen Angel (1):
The DEO

Mhsmith0 (1):
Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Alisae, Frozen Angel

Votecount 4.173:
ɀefiend
(4): Creature, JaeReed, Frozen Angel,
The DEO

The DEO
(2): Malachite, drealmerz7
Frozen Angel (1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Alisae

Votecount 4.175:
ɀefiend
(5): Creature, JaeReed, Frozen Angel,
The DEO
, Mhsmith0
The DEO
(2): Malachite, drealmerz7
Frozen Angel (1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Alisae

Votecount 4.175.2:
ɀefiend
(6): Creature, JaeReed, Frozen Angel,
The DEO
, Mhsmith0, drealmerz7
The DEO
(1): Malachite
Frozen Angel (1):
ɀefiend

Not Voting: Postie, Alisae
Show
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4585 (isolation #198) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:09 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Quick thoughts:
1) Voting pattern on days 1 and 2 make a good deal more sense if RM/boring was scum. Day 1 RM (boring), vedith (vax), and zef never vote together, and day 2 there’s a collective preference among vax/zef to vote lycan over rm/boring.

2) Day 3 pattern in particular looks pretty decent for JaeReed. A pretty clear preference for one scum over the other, and the scum he wanted lynched was the vanillaizer (pretty much always more useful to scum than a 1-shot strongman). Probably worth looking at Vax ending the day with a useless vote parked on JR to see if I’m wrong and it was a fake spew thing, but that seems unlikely, especially given Alisae’s claim of having ALSO been vanillaized (JR having that many simultaneous powers as scum doesn’t seem reasonable to me)

3) 3.116 as a pattern just looks WEIRD. It’s like they’re just throwing whatever on the wall to see if anything at all would pick up, as opposed to piling on one specific thing in order to try and drive a counter-wagon.

4) Just eyeballing it, KC/Malachite seems the most obvious potential answer, but I kind of wonder if it’s just TOO obvious. Like, if it’s them you have a scum team that:
nearly never voted together at all on day 1 (except RM/KC piling on KTS late);
entirely piled on Lycan to try and save RM day 2 (while RM wasn’t there at all to hammer in the brief window, which if that’s the team must have just sucked for everyone who stuck their necks out for her);
had zef/KC voting together on DEO cw to try and save zef early day 3, and spread votes out on one-vote vanity wagons at 3.116 to see if anything would stick (although hopping onto Vax instead of DEO at 3.126 was a bit surprising if that’s a bus);
did an early bus early D4, then had mala/zef both pile onto DEO, with Mala never hopping back onto zef once it was largely inevitable
Clearly possible… but idk. Probably the most obvious answer from eyeballing VC data but it doesn’t quite feel right.

5) Presuming that RM/boring was actually scum, 2.56 is a pretty good look for creature. That’s a point where hopping onto the lycan wagon to move the mislynch count one forward is something that scum can probably get away with (and scum already piled on to some degree given vax/zef flips); him not doing so is relatively positive I think, especially since the lycan claim was easily something that could have been written off as nothing worth avoiding a hammer for.
Show
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #4586 (isolation #199) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:11 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Anyway, since it's pretty likely we're down to final scum we really should be doing mass claim I think.

Also, @Alisae: can you talk about what vanilla-ized you? Is this a permanent change to a 1-voter? Are you only like this for today? Was RC unclear about which was the case?
Show
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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