Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn I love you and your narrative. AHH

/confirm

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

"The Fallen" Just my pride

I got tears

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey.
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with Nacho.

Like. If he flips town POWER lynch me here.

I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.

I refuse to believe he allowed both me and Nacho to be town.
So lynch me, lynch Nacho, doesn't matter who you lynch first but Nacho is scum.
Guaranteed.

Fuck these mind games already

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm actually going to argue the fact that if both of you are steller scums, he'd make sure both are town purely for the fact that he'd know you'd be at each others throats.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Take a step back and realize that Pine can use emotional ties to make it seem impossible that he wouldn't pick either of you if ya'll were that close, ergo, he set up D1 and D2 mislynches in that respect.


Even if it doesn't end up being mislynches, there will be tonnes of noise created by you two arguing.


P-Edit: Pine is this the Mastin you told me about?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I LOVE THE MASTIN STORY AND I READ THAT THREAD. SOOOO GOOD

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also I'm just going to lay it out there, as soon as ya'll say you're not with Pine, I'm just looking at it like distancing. It doesn't have to be announced that you're not on Pine's team, if town it's self-evident.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I think he's got a strongman tbh.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Pine, can you do me a flavor?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I want a MyLo/LyLo rematch.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Well, you'll have to mislynch all these schmucks for me in order to get there, mmkay?

Damn..that's actually a really bad idea.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

This is the lynch pool of the day considering Pine got to draft players and these were the pre-ins

Secret Agent Jin
BTD6_MAKER
TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Nahdia
nachomamma8
Fate

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Mastin fun fact, I got a nom for a team scum game with Pine in my first game on this site.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088 (I'm blawb who signed under /Gin and then took over the hydra D2)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69768 This time I'm IC and Pine was scum, Pine won

I have an ongoing game I can't report yet

This is my 4th game with Pine and he's scum this game, so yeah that's my player history with Pine

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Pine, you think we would have won the Hunger Games if it wasn't for those two strongmans?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My guess is dreal and SirCakes

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

ur memz R trash

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nacho/Mastin/Pine/4th scum or no? scum team and Mastin/nacho pulls an epic distancing play at the beginning of the game.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So mastin, what you propose is to not actually scum hunt but bob for apples?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also going under the pretense that you're town.

Nacho lynched D1 revealed town
Mastin killed N1 (WIFOM for not killing defacto mislynch)
Now we're at D2 and we can magically trust that fate is town because you two died?

The theory doesn't make sense at all and I don't see why playing the game normal would be less beneficial than this crackpot theory you got going on.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

pine made a huge mistake letting nacho and prism team up I think

Did you just say these two were on the same team?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I don't see why playing the game normal would be less beneficial than this crackpot theory you got going on.

Because this game is explicitly not normal.

Pine got to control his scumteam.

Assuming he just used random.org to roll the die for his scumteam is an inherently flawed and faulty assumption.

Maybe for a third pick, I can see him POSSIBLY doing that. He'd have two players he really wanted scum and/or two players he really didn't want camn making town, so after that it becomes possible in theory for his last, third, pick to be random. But even there I'm being extra-generous. The most likely thing for Pine to do is to pick each member individually, most likely because he knows of them from past experience.

He had three chances to pick me; he did not.
That tells me a lot about the setup he'd go for right then and there. (Keeping in mind camn wouldn't have picked me as town because she doesn't know me.)

So yes.
I am playing non-randomly. I am making non-random assumptions. Because this game is, explicitly, non-random. As a result, I am assuming Pine picked players he is familiar with and would trust to carry the game. I also assumed he would pick players he'd want to deny the town from having in their grasp. Yet I also know that camn has at least vaguely similar experiences to Pine in regards to the most major of the players here: Fate and Nacho.

Ergo, one is scum because Pine got first dibs on the draft and would have selected one of them...
...And the other is town because camn would have selected one of them as her first pick for town.
And the rest of the scumteam is made up of other such players Pine knows of and would trust.

Aeronaut pinged as a possibility, and so did you. Your actions thusfar in the game have only served to solidify this.

So you're telling me you scum read me for not having any knowledge of the history between Pine and his other compatriots and then also not agreeing with your theory when:

1) From my perspective, by doing this PoE from the start, you allow easy mislynches and disallow people to form reads on players which isn't helpful later game
2) Pine is manipulative and if I can think to make all the player's he's gone way back with as town so they WIFOM lynch each other, I'd do it and I don't doubt he would either.

I just don't think you're thinking clearly here. It doesn't matter who Pine talks to because it's NAI. You have to realize that if Pine could pick the scum team, that means he's picking the players who he thinks could work together as their own unit, regardless if Pine himself was in the game or not.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Like, I've never played a game with TheRealGin-N-Tonic before.

But.
He looks like obvscum.
So I'm pretty sure. He's just actually scum, and that this isn't merely a playstyle thingy here.

Not going to lie (that's what I'd be saying if I was lying lmao)

What you just said is my town tell

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

pine made a huge mistake letting nacho and prism team up I think

Did you just say these two were on the same team?

I question the intent of this post. I didn't give the post link in my quote. You found the original post, where it clearly speculates a possible draft.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

Twas a question, not a declaration, simply asking for confirmation before I possibly cast damnation.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If I had a post-restriction of talking in poetry I would die of happiness because oh my god can I write some badass lines

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Prism are you talking about me?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I was really confused because you said I was scum.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll be honest I don't care about speculation at all

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

ALSO

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If I'm this obvscum then why in the fuck would Pine pick me?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

No I mean it's just cute that you think I'm scum. When I tell you I got nommed for a scummy award, it's because you wouldn't even think it was possible that I was scum, if I was scum this game. Especially when I haven't played with you as town, when you can't tell the difference, you're pretty much fucked.


I think I deserve a flash wagon

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Do we get an official Day 3 start or no?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's quite simple what we do with mastin. We wait for her to get Night Killed.

It's pretty much self evident at this point that if Mastin is actually town, she'll be the strongest voice to listen to and the scum team will have to kill her early to gain an advantage.

If town, scum have to balance "do we keep her alive to frame her off of this" or "just kill immediately to not deal with it?" situation that I actually think is worth the stress to push.

If scum, well you'll eventually crack but at this point I'm leaning the former over the latter.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay can I formally request you shut the fuck up about set up guessing? Start pointing out how scummy shit people said, mind you not relating to thinking your theorycraft isn't worth the time (it isn't, I'm thinking its more ego related at this point).

Although it's great to say this whole thing how you know Pine so well, in the end it's all seriously noise and continued use of it without actually scum hunting leads to the conclusion that you used it as a smokescreen to get a town read and push an agenda. Like seriously, you fall under an anecdotal fallacy and I'm not touching that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

She's not D1 lynch worthy.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, since some of ya'll dont know me; I prefer to go by "Gin" when talked about me

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

which is exactly why you're scum, but, hey, I'm done pushing you for now

ppl can agree or not, of course

Who this at?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fuck your claim of being able to do this and recognize that *I* am the one who actually can. Pine was one of my first, and closest friends, and bitter rivals, and nobody knows how he operates better than I do. You lack the game experience and you lack the personal connection. I have both. That's not arrogance speaking. That's just pure simple fact. I have the most games with Pine of any player. I have the most personal connection to Pine of any player.

I'm thinking its more ego related at this point

Looks like I was right

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So mastin, on a scale of 1 to wrong, how sure are you that I'm scum?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also I asked for a flashwagon on me and then people vote you so like, what gives?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

drealmerz7 --------- 3 ( Vaxkiller, Aeronaut, pisskop, Pine ) L- 4
3 ( Vaxkiller, Aeronaut, pisskop, Pine ) L- 4

Hey Camn, thought you said Pine was a tree stump, so why is his vote being used?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

This is honestly so much noise.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I GOT A VOTE! WOO!

@Pikachu, give me a minute

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Monokuma, do you have a sense of humor?

Whenever I do a reads list I like making funny names and I want to make sure you won't take it personal if I make a pun

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Monokuma, do you have a sense of humor?

Whenever I do a reads list I like making funny names and I want to make sure you won't take it personal if I make a pun

What an insult!!!!! We're taking it personal that you don't think we have a sense of humour!!!!! Be

claws

look at us! I can't

bear

to think we haven't been making it clear as crystal...

honey

, just who do you think you're talking to?

You are my favorite person in this game right now

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

so you're here to help, but, we've got to do it alone?

Almost.
Think of it as...being a mentor who knows the answer, and can give it to the student, but who knows that just telling the student won't make them understand. The best way for the student to comprehend is to be given the path, and then work their way through it.

Think of it this way.

As a teacher I could tell you:
X + 1 = 4.
X + 1 - 1 = 4 - 1
X = 3.
This explains the process step by step...but the student might not accept the lesson.
Or, I could tell you:
"X + 1 = 4.
X is 3. Now, how did I know that?"

And suddenly the student is forced to work their way through it and figure that out. One teaches more than the other. And is therefore more useful than the other. So yes. I'm here to help. I will give you the answers. When you struggle, I will even give you clues as to the process. When continuing to struggle, I will make those clues continuously more explicit. But my expectation of you is always that you are meant to figure out the process on your own.

In the context of a mafia game, this is more than just me being an IC in a non-newbie game. It serves a distinct purpose beyond that, but for that, I'll leave it to you to figure out what the motivation behind my actions are. (No, it's not that as scum I'm incapable of generating my own reasoning. I'll tell you that. Now figure out what it actually is.)

You're doing it to improve the playerbase in general, if I'm correct in your logic, I can relate it to a problem I had on my home site(why I left) in which there were about 5-7 players considered power players and the rest didn't do much besides just wait for the power players to say something.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Mastin

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm trying to make a thing for Aero but I keep getting distracted

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My semester starts Monday, where can I go buy this textbook and how much is it?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: NachoDaddy

When I get to Mastin in my reads list, it'll explain why I'm willing to listen to her at this point

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

01. Secret Agent Jin

Spoiler: The Other Less Cool Jin

Abstract: Beginning scum lean for fence sitting behavior

Post 187, Para 1: My first impression is a subtle distancing with dreal. I mainly don't like the fact that that the way Jin i setting up his reads in a way that they can change quite easily. With Dreal, he says that normally he'd look scummy but he'll null him until he comes under heat. This reads to me as a set up to a bus if the situation arises.

Post 187, Para 3: To continue the idea that formulated in my head, here he said Mastin would have been a town lean but he's willing to not read town and say she's scum. I think again that it's just early game set up to allow him to sway his opinion on a player to follow what the town thinks so he doesn't come under much suspicion.

Post 187, Para 4: To answer Jin's question, he answers it in the prelude to giving the question. Jin specifically stated that he believed what Mastin was doing so the purpose of asking if Mastin's post being genuine or fabricated has me puzzled.

Post 187, Para 5: This paragraph, I don't believe in because Mastin's reasoning is basically focusing on Nacho as the main threat and if he's not scum, then ergo Mastin is scum. That's a dangerous gambit to put oneself as scum and makes her the center of attention. I don't doubt that Mastin can handle being center of attention as scum but she's right in saying that as scum, it's not smart to make yourself prime lynching material.

Post 208: I'm looking at this post as a reason to not give a definitive statement as to what he thinks about Mastin's alignment. You can attempt to come to the conclusion that she's town for saying to lynch her on D2 if she's wrong or push an angle that it's scum making it all for info manipulation latter down the road. Either way, either option has to sound better in your mind and not giving a statement about what you actually think is continuous fence sitting like I've pointed out earlier.

Yeah this are going to take me awhile to do

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

02. BTD6_MAKER

Spoiler: Big Truck Driver 6

Abstract: Beginning Scum Lean

Post 104 and Post 115: Together I'm not seeing genuine concern in thinking Mastin is scum but is finding an excuse to vote mastin. First he votes at 7:03 AM EST and says she's most likely to be scum with Pine because they've played together a long time ago. Then after 100 posts and 12 hours later, he continues to vote Mastin in light of all the discussion that has occurred, he doesn't put in further input continuing to prove his theory, it's a simple vote and he bounces.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Provide a link to a game where I'm more valuable to you as town if you're scum cuz you blatantly used me like a rag doll to get a scum win and I was an IC.

I doubt you'll be able to provide such help tho as that scenario probably never actually happened.

Also keep me alive till at least D4, after that you can kill me but at least give till then BB

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I dont know who this Pine guy is and we have zero history so this speculation that I was drafted by him is scum or just wrong


Maybe I'll read the same at some point

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21228
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19615
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=19355
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=18662


Okay this is part of my read on Fate and I just wanted to point out they actually do have history together

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

03. TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Spoiler: The Town Drunk

Read that name lmao

04. Nachomamma8

Spoiler: NachoDaddy

Abstract: No Read

One Post saying he'll check in tomorrow, will update once a sufficient read can be produced.

05. Fate

Spoiler: Karma

Abstract: Confused

I remember talking in a queue and learned that playing a game with Fate was a pain and I'm starting to understand why.

I'll be honest and say I'm having a hard time getting a read from his slot.

Only thing that spiked my mind is him saying he had no history with Pine when after what was probably a waste of my life, he had these games he played with him:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21228
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19615
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=19355
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=18662

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Mastin, how long does it take you to plan for a game?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Players that it seems like i havent seen in a bit: BTD6, Gin, Kop, Mastina. This just might be me but one name does stand out from those, Gin. If i recall earlier in the thread someone brought up that Gin played a great scum game with Pine recently and i was in that game. They rampaged pretty hard, that is actually the reason for this game. Camn was so upset she needed revenge. That tells me that A) Gin and Pine would work great together and B) Gin would be the best pick for scum also because we would expect Pine to pick him so we assume he didnt based on that but our assumptions are why Pine picked him.

VOTE: Gin

Votes made out of speculation involving host confirmed WIFOM are not votes based on a player's scumminess in the thread but as an excuse to park a vote.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

No, we don't care which one is removed first.

Care to explain why?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It was cute at first but now I'm getting the vibe that you're being facetious as ruse

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Damn, your posts are a bitch to read for actual meaning but you actually do.

I do gotta ask, can you put in spoilers layman speak what your posts mean?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Damn, your posts are a bitch to read for actual meaning but you actually do.

I do gotta ask, can you put in spoilers layman speak what your posts mean?

@FuzzyWuzzyBear

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

No, we don't care which one is removed first.

Care to explain why?

Let's get back to ground zero.

In that post, you listed your scum reads?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Are you tellin' me you wanted to know WHY they were there at all? I thought you were fakin' a question, but hoo boy, didja actually have a plan there?
The bear's busy, so consultation is over for today.

If I give you cuddles while stabbing you, will that make you work with me because yes, that's where I was going with that question.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I mean it ain't done but I've been working on it lol

01. Secret Agent Jin

Spoiler: The Other Less Cool Jin

Abstract: Beginning scum lean for fence sitting behavior

Post 187, Para 1: My first impression is a subtle distancing with dreal. I mainly don't like the fact that that the way Jin i setting up his reads in a way that they can change quite easily. With Dreal, he says that normally he'd look scummy but he'll null him until he comes under heat. This reads to me as a set up to a bus if the situation arises.
Post 187, Para 3: To continue the idea that formulated in my head, here he said Mastin would have been a town lean but he's willing to not read town and say she's scum. I think again that it's just early game set up to allow him to sway his opinion on a player to follow what the town thinks so he doesn't come under much suspicion.
Post 187, Para 4: To answer Jin's question, he answers it in the prelude to giving the question. Jin specifically stated that he believed what Mastin was doing so the purpose of asking if Mastin's post being genuine or fabricated has me puzzled.

Post 187, Para 5: This paragraph, I don't believe in because Mastin's reasoning is basically focusing on Nacho as the main threat and if he's not scum, then ergo Mastin is scum. That's a dangerous gambit to put oneself as scum and makes her the center of attention. I don't doubt that Mastin can handle being center of attention as scum but she's right in saying that as scum, it's not smart to make yourself prime lynching material.

Post 208: I'm looking at this post as a reason to not give a definitive statement as to what he thinks about Mastin's alignment. You can attempt to come to the conclusion that she's town for saying to lynch her on D2 if she's wrong or push an angle that it's scum making it all for info manipulation latter down the road. Either way, either option has to sound better in your mind and not giving a statement about what you actually think is continuous fence sitting like I've pointed out earlier.

02. BTD6_MAKER

Spoiler: Big Truck Driver 6_

Abstract: Beginning Scum Lean

Post 104 and Post 115: Together I'm not seeing genuine concern in thinking Mastin is scum but is finding an excuse to vote mastin. First he votes at 7:03 AM EST and says she's most likely to be scum with Pine because they've played together a long time ago. Then after 100 posts and 12 hours later, he continues to vote Mastin in light of all the discussion that has occurred, he doesn't put in further input continuing to prove his theory, it's a simple vote and he bounces.

03. TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Spoiler: The Town Drunk

Read that name lmao

04. Nachomamma8

Spoiler: NachoDaddy

Abstract: No Read

One Post saying he'll check in tomorrow, will update once a sufficient read can be produced.

05. Fate

Spoiler: Karma

Abstract: Confused

I remember talking in the queue that playing a game with Fate was a pain and I'm starting to understand why.

I'll be honest and say I'm having a hard time getting a read from his slot.

Only thing that spiked my mind is him saying he had no history with Pine when after what was probably a waste of my life, he had these games he played with him:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21228
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19615
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=19355
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=18662

06. drealmerz7

Spoiler: The Real Dreal

07. Monokuma (Nahdia + Road Kamelot)

Spoiler: Didn't even know this was a hydra lmao

08. mastina

Spoiler: Mastin Infinite

09. Aeronaut

Spoiler: Astronaught

10. Prism

Spoiler: Pink Floyd

11. SirCakez

Spoiler: Why America has a weight problem

12. Vaxkiller

Spoiler: Unvacinnated

13. pisskop

Spoiler: kisspop

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I mean sorry it's not finished but please realize I'm kinda jam packed with IRL stuff, got the college semester just starting today and also trying to work full time and it's a pretty fluid list as of the moment.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's a work in progress is all. I think Mastin's main concern was that I think she thought I wasn't going to continue the reads or have the intention to not finish them.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If scum!Mastin, I'm seeing that she would have continued to justify a vote by saying I'm a lazy player or just a scum 'faking town behaviour' by producing a reads list and not finishing it, but I think the most damning thing that obliterates that accusation is that I was able to pull up a saved draft and hit upload in a mere two minutes.

There is also no way I could have written all those spoiler tags, formatted all my posts from before and came up with the puns for the other half of the player list without having done this beforehand with the intent of continuously filling out my book of reads.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

wow.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll admit I associated that both had to exist or neither did. Thanks for clearing that up. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some of your posts to re-read

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Mastina does have a point, though. I'm mostly just trolling.

I have dropped some entirely valid hints though!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm currently exited to play with mastin as well because she's one of the starting few where she's answering my questions before I ask them.

I was about to ask Mastin to take me being scum the next step in asking who I'd be lined up with as scum and I remembered her answered would be Aero.

I then was going to ask why that was and it's because she said we had scum theatre that was textbook in Aero.

I was finally going to ask how she came to that conclusion and all from memory I was able to establish that it was because Aero asked me for a reads list and something along the lines of that.

Mastin, if being able to think and be able to answer your own questions like that was how it was 4 years ago, boy oh boy did I miss out

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You did.

I'm actually quite sad now

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

hahahahahahahahaha Did you seriously go from a raging murdercock for Nacho and then just say exactly why disregarding everything you said and pushed for is a bad idea and think admitting it makes it just dandy and unnoticeable?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

For a top-tier player that's pretty fucked.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Please call him 'Gin'. This TRGNT nonsense is annoying.

Thank you, this is a pet peeve of mine

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

CONGRATULATIONS GIN, FATE, AND SIRCAKEZ. YOU'VE WON THE RIGHT TO EAT ROPE TODAY!!!

Huh. I never knew it was possible to be perfectly 50% accurate on three names, but you've named 1.5/3 scum here. Shows me what I know.

Where the hell does .5 come from?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also it's such a surprise I'm at L-3 lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Pine, if you had to guess my role, what would it be?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

He's going to pick people he knows will work as a team.

PINE WHAT DID WE FUCKING GET NOMINATED TOGETHER FOR YOU TWIT

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Sorry, kinda hit my pride there

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

He's going to pick people he knows will work as a team.

PINE WHAT DID WE FUCKING GET NOMINATED TOGETHER FOR YOU TWIT

Sorry, kinda hit my pride there

inb4 mastin says "scumposting ^^"

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Im glad I was #1 draft pick thanks camn


My role on the other hand....

You were a second round pick

An example of entirely accurate information I have given.

Fate was indeed selected in the second round of the draft.

This just reinforces Mastin's point in saying that you'll post 10% to satiate the town and it'll be useless info.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's probably closer to 30%. I like to live dangerously.

I did a gif, better?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Approval from Senpine is all I need in life. Now I just don't get lynched till LyLo-1 and game solve win

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Mastin, if being able to think and be able to answer your own questions like that was how it was 4 years ago, boy oh boy did I miss out

If you think I'm good, you have no idea. I'm literally trash compared to others in that regard.

No seriously I was a trash-tier player. In part because my explanations compared to others really sucked.

But yes. I miss the days where I was considered incompetent because in those days, I had a solid strive to improve: everyone, literally

everyone

, was better than I was, so I had nowhere to go but up.

Nowadays it's constantly a struggle to keep myself from plummeting down.
The remnants of the oldguard will firmly tell you, "it is a sad, sad day when mastina is considered the standard of excellence in a game".
I don't disagree with them.

I could talk for hours honestly but that is for another time, perhaps another thread. If I get invested enough in this community(which I highly suspect), well a Mafia Renaissance would be in order.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Where the hell does .5 come from?

The answer lies in my posts~

Is it frivolous to find or something that takes talent to find?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fate, it's because I want to lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I genuinely want to know why you're interacting with Pine so much, Gin

So Pine, how ya feeling mate? Having a good day?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Unaccountably tired, actually. I got plenty of sleep, but it's not even dinner time and I'm ready for a nap.

Funny story! I had a nightmare last night, wherein I accidentally revealed that the scumteam, chosen for their malleability and relative obscurity, consisted of Vax, BTD6, Cakez, and Jin. But that was just a dream.

Interesting, well with this new information, I think I'll sleep on it. No seriously I'm so tired.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

and I've been lurking too much

not cool!!!

I willgame it up by thursday night??? soundgood?

it feels good to take D1 at the pace we're at

Quality over Quantity

Also maybe because the college semester started and people (like me) have had just a little bit more of trouble keeping pace than they planned.

However the good thing about it is that it's discouraging me from shit posting.

Right now I've had Fate fester in my mind as scum but I'm letting it brew and boil before I proceed.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Waiting until I'm a viable counterwagon to save yourself TGin?

I haven't read your posts yet but from that statement alone you might be worth looking at

Don't inflate your ego. You're nothing special to me, I'm just taking my time this game.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

V/LA for a few days at least. I'm in the ER until further notice.

Speedy recovery

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Nacho

HehhehhahHAHHEHHAHAHA

I was excited...then people told me that just playing with you was a rite of passage.

At this post, what they said I soon learned to be true

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I will make my fully glorious entrance tomorrow, after work. My time is limited tonight, but I will be dropping a couple beautiful bombs of wisdom on some select people for you to enjoy in anticipation of my return.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay that's funny and all, but for a designated IC of the forums, I'd expect you to actually make a case instead of funny links and gags.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh Fate no, I'm calling Nacho out lmao

Dude hasn't been here since monday

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Mastin, I have a riddle for you I'd like your thoughts on.

Pine can't manipulate me as I know his alliance, however, what's to stop him from using his scum picks to do his manipulation for him?

I'm going to add a small step to what you just built and ask you about the possibility of it being true.

Pine uses SirCakes with giving the instructions to pocket me by giving me an early town read (by the way I'll admit I did like Cakes after he made that post, so in a sense it did work), which then will allow his scum team to have a town ally later down the road?

The reason I ask this is because when reading your guides, I noticed that one tip as scum is to make one town member like you and keep him around till LyLo so the scum player can trust that the townie will see the last townie as scum by PoE.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay that's funny and all, but for a designated IC of the forums, I'd expect you to actually make a case instead of funny links and gags.

@Mastin

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I TR dreal for his shitposting and tone
Generally those things get him scumread but they're town tells for him

at they are least in this game

gotta switch it up!

I read Ttyll and you were much more...uptight that game so I'm hopeful you're legit here.

This is definitely AtE. He's cursing, asking to be wagoned, mentioning a scummy award.

Okay. One: cursing is not a sign of AtE. You can fucking curse all damn day and not have a lick of emotion behind it. Two, there was only one curse word in there. And three, said curse word? Not even used in a manner that is ever emotional.
You NEVER say "fucked" when you're emotional.
Sure, you can say fucking as an emotion.
Sure, you can say fuck as an emotion. (Fuck you, for instance.)
But fucked? No. Fucked is used in either two connotations: the literal sense of fornication, or the metaphorical sense of being screwed. "I'm fucked". "You're fucked". And those terms? Usually used in a lighthearted manner, the polar OPPOSITE of real AtE. You don't see people saying "we're fucked" and saying it as an emotional outcry. Maybe there's dread in it, but most commonly, it's an expression of that lighthearted "we're doomed", and nothing more. Which, you know, is self-evident. Because let's see the context of the fuck-bomb dropped:

when you can't tell the difference, you're pretty much fucked.

There's humor in there. HUMOR. Not emotion. Humorously declaring that if we can't tell the difference, WE are fucked. Not him, WE. There's rules when it comes to cursing. There's a whole language, a whole fucking language, designating what a curse word means and the context behind a curse word. A curse word can add humor, it can add vulgarity, or it can add drama. This one was the former two, but not the latter one, and the drama is what cursing as AtE actually is.

Oh and four: mentioning a Scummy nomination is not ranting. It's bragging. You're not doing AtE if you're bragging. Pride isn't an emotional outcry. Ranting, based on anger, would be. But there's not so much as a fucking HINT of anger in the post. It's empty. Hollow. Shallow. Which brings me to...

Five: That request to be wagoned? Yeah that was bullshit.
If TheRealGin-N-Tonic actually wanted to be wagoned, know what he'd do? He'd self-vote the moment votes were valid. He'd go on a crusade to get wagoned. He'd point out how he was serious, and he'd make it a big deal. Do you know what we got from him instead?

Also I asked for a flashwagon on me and then people vote you so like, what gives?

This. That's it. Nothing more on the subject at all. It's as if...oh yeah. The original request was empty and hollow, because TheRealGin-N-Tonic wasn't actually interested in wagoning himself. He just said something which looked good, but when analyzed, had nothing actually good backing it.

Now fuck off about your bullshit definition of AtE because TheRealGin-N-Tonic's post there was about as far away from AtE as you can get.

even assuming Pine didn't RNG his picks, how would you know whether he tried to WIFOM the playerlist with his picks or not if you were town?

Oh gee, it's almost as if I EXPLAINED this already! It's not like I haven't clarified this ten times already.
But since you apparently weren't listening those nine other times, let me educate you on the subject.

There's a binary choice here. BINARY. Either it is, or it isn't.
Pine either made wifom picks, or he did not.
Now, no matter which he choice, there's the wifom game. We have to ask: did he make optimal choices, or did he try to throw us off?
Yet everyone is crying wifom to this whole process. They insist that because we can't determine which he decided to go for, the process of trying is therefore useless.
If people assume that Pine's picks cannot be reliably determined, then Pine has no incentive to make wifomy picks because nobody will believe he would make those blatant choices because people will cry wifom to the idea.
As a result, Pine is going to make the choices that are most optimal: he's not going to choose players for wifom. He's going to choose the players he thinks will make the best team. As a result, his choices can be figured out, if people stop being morons and crying out wifom to the idea.

It's like nightkill analysis.
Scum have the power to kill a player who blatantly points to the scum via NKA, or making a wifom kill to misdirect the town.
People will assume that because of the latter, NKA is therefore useless.
As a result of people discarding NKA, scum can make the nightkill on a player who blatantly points to who the scum are via NKA...
...Because the town will write it off as wifom.

When, newsflash. Scumteams don't actually kill players off of wifom. It's stupid, because nobody actually does NKA. So when a scumteam kills a player off of wifom, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Same exact principle applies here.
Pine had the power to select a team which was blatant via basic Pine knowledge. (And keep in mind I have FAR FUCKING MORE than just basic Pine knowledge.) Alternatively, Pine had the option of making wifom picks for the scumteam, to misdirect the town.
People will assume that because of the latter, Pine's picks are therefore meaningless.
As a result of people discarding Pine's picks, he could make whatever the fuck he wanted to in terms of picks, no matter how blatantly obvious the picks would be...
...Because the town will write it off as wifom.

It's really not that fucking hard to understand.

oh god this wall

-First off, the cursing thing. If someone is cursing constantly then yeah it's not AtE. But look at Gin's ISO. He is very very restrained, and is only cursing when talking to people who are pushing him (with the exception of one early shitpost). It looks like legitimiate anger and not just someone who curses all the time. For that specific post, I'm not seeing the humor in saying that if you can't tell the difference between his town and scum games, you're fucked. Out of your three definitions, it looked like anger to me (especially combined with his other posting), which would be drama.
Bragging IS an appeal to emotion imo. By saying "oh I'm such a good player I would never get wagoned as scum and I have a scummy to prove it", he's basically trying to make the people pushing him think twice. Which would be a scumtell if it weren't for the other factors.
The call for a wagon on himself was maybe bullshit, but it looks like something pissed off town would say, given how early it is. I did something similar as frustrated town in Shadowrun.

Your whole last bit is wrong because of what you're arguing over: WIFOM. Maybe yeah Pine predicted that people would be paranoid and then make "optimal picks" for his team. But then maybe he predicted that people would predict that (like you've been doing) and then make WIFOMy picks instead. But then maybe he predicted that people would predict THAT and went with the optimal picks instead.

etc
etc
etc

I concur with every statement Mastin said about my emotions.

It was humourful, playful, and not to be taken seriously.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So why would he pick me? Or is that an argument for another time?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So why would he pick me?

If we assume Pine made picks without wifom, if we assume Pine's picks were optimal choices that he knows work well together as a team?

Oh, I dunno.

Hey Mastin fun fact, I got a nom for a team scum game with Pine in my first game on this site.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088 (I'm blawb who signed under /Gin and then took over the hydra D2)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69768 This time I'm IC and Pine was scum, Pine won

You have to realize that if Pine could pick the scum team, that means he's picking the players who he thinks could work together as their own unit, regardless if Pine himself was in the game or not.

When I tell you I got nommed for a scummy award, it's because you wouldn't even think it was possible that I was scum, if I was scum this game.

...Call it a hunch?

Okay, now the next step in this process, how does telling you all that help push a scum agenda?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

Hahaha!
This is definitely my kind of party then!

Oh yeah, we got the cat nine tails and floggers but between you and I, Camn isn't exactly the best at making the knots tight

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

Hahaha!
This is definitely my kind of party then!

Oh yeah, we got the cat nine tails and floggers but between you and I, Camn isn't exactly the best at making the knots tight

Should have used a Venusaur instead of a Ninetails to ensure strong knots! Dat Vine Whip

We live different lives my friend

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I mean, I'm waiting on Mastin -I Opisthobranchia (I'm keeping that there because autocorrect is hilarious)- to explain to me how blatantly saying I'm good at playing scum will help further a scum agenda.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So Ari...what's up?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

Hahaha!
This is definitely my kind of party then!

Oh yeah, we got the cat nine tails and floggers but between you and I, Camn isn't exactly the best at making the knots tight

She wasn't a Boy Scout.

Oh my god get with the program Camn specifically said why she made the knots loose, however as an Eagle Scout, I did take great offense :p

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So that vote count just reminded me that my vote is on Nacho, the other thing about that vote is because I concurred with Mastin after she made roughly 50 actual posts explaining why Nacho is scum.

My question here is, after what can only be described as setting up a death tunnel against Nacho, why is it that it took one post from Nacho to erase all of that hard work she presented as to why Nacho=scum?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So Ari...what's up?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

i'm a fuckin idiot Ari is V/LA


Not gonna lie my ass was sitting here thinking Ari was scummier by the minute because he doesn't like to play maf at all

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

gin come sheep me bud

My gut and off memory is that I find the bear distasteful.

Only thing that's still been irking me is that I can't stop thinking that either both you and Mastin are scum and the entrance to the game was scum theatre or your both town.

No point in not saying what's on my mind, it's just that, with Mastin's gambit, she never has to put herself in risk by lynching you, if she never actually tries to lynch you.

Do you understand where I'm coming from? I can't help but feel like it's fake.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

FUCK

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Literally the most frustrating feeling in the world is when you write up a long post and then chrome does fuck all/closes tab and i lose it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay, now the next step in this process, how does telling you all that help push a scum agenda?

There are three (not mutually exclusive, in fact they're pretty inclusive) reasons why you would post those things:
-Pride: you have already admitted that you take great amounts in your scumgame, so boasting about it even as you are playing it is not something you are above doing.
-Arrogance: you don't think talking about your scumgame can make a player catch you in your scumgame, because you assume players will miss the important parts and go on a wild goose chase, ignoring the actually telling hints you give. In short, you can explain to the town exactly what you are doing, and they won't see you doing it, at least that's your assumption.
-Pragmatism, and the actual game advantage to have done so. Rather than being part of your ego as the above two are, this one serves to grant you an in-game advantage. The things you have shared and talked about are not things which only you could give. Anyone who bothered to do their research could dig up the evidence you yourself provide. Anyone could make the points you yourself have made. But by having made the points, by having offered the research, you'd hope that would make you look town. And failing that? If people didn't assume you looked town, you can force the issue...by asking the question you just did, right here and now.

Pride: I've yet to do so but when I do, I'll make sure you can use that as a valid point, however under the burden of proof, you can not find a game where I've boasted about my scum play as scum, so you're in the wrong here. It's a simple assumption you've made and assumptions are allowed to be wrong.

Arrogance: I'm not actually an idiot...I take wording very seriously as often the devil is in the details. One thing is that often times, when two things unrelated to each other are said enough times in the same context, it will eventually be perceived as true. It's similar but different to the guilty by association fallacy. Now, you're half right about me being an idiot because I think I can just say fuck all as town and get away with cuz town; however I need to start understanding that even tho I don't HAVE to be alive, I need to prevent mislynches as they're still bad for town.

Pragmatism: I'm about confused on what you're accusing me of here. It reads to me that because I decided to do town things to fake town, not because I am town. I also have never asked people to town read me, I don't know where that came from because I know I'm scum read and it won't likely change. Also, for some reason, asking you to follow your own advice that you look for the scum agenda a player is pushing instead of what is at face value made me look more scummier in your eyes and that doesn't make sense to me.

Final note, when did I ask people to town read me or force the issue? It feels like a strawman because I dont remember saying that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

gin come sheep me bud

My gut and off memory is that I find the bear distasteful.

Only thing that's still been irking me is that I can't stop thinking that either both you and Mastin are scum and the entrance to the game was scum theatre or your both town.

No point in not saying what's on my mind, it's just that, with Mastin's gambit, she never has to put herself in risk by lynching you, if she never actually tries to lynch you.

Do you understand where I'm coming from? I can't help but feel like it's fake.

I don't really understand where you're coming from, no.

I understand the paranoia about mastina-me scum theatre, sure; I don't understand why you think that it's the case, but I understand having paranoia about it. I don't understand why you rule out mastintown-mescum or vice versa, and I don't understand why you thinking about these possibilities has paralyzed you into inaction. If you suspect the bear, vote the bear. If you suspect me, vote me.

Would you say that Mastina has not tried to lynch me or push a wagon on me this game?

'I understand the paranoia about mastina-me scum theatre, sure; I don't understand why you think that it's the case,' Keyword here is paranoia and that basically answers the question.

I'm also picking up the philosophy of not just throwing my vote around but voting when I think I can personally make a case on them. So although I do suspect the bear, I'm going to make sure I feel 100% confident that he's scum if I cast a vote.

Also I'm not exactly sure why you're asking me that question, it's self-evident if you read the thread that Mastin has pushed you.

mastina comes in guns blazing, ranting and raving that she's going to 1v1 you blah blah blah blah blah blah blah for pages and pages

Your entrance: (eloquently) mastina no.

mastina: oh ok (unvotes)

anyone who wasn't pinged by that is either not paying attention or seeing something we aren't.

This post about sums up why I'm not okay with things right now and it's a lot more clear and concise than I would have written it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

pine is STUMPED on waht to do

STAHP

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Prism, are you still voting me for something said pre-game or has something else during the actual game that got you all hot and bothered?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Understood.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Wait wait, maybe you're better than I thought.

Throw up a reads list. I'll tell you how many you got right. Not who, just how many. No lies.

lmfao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Prism, what exactly is your goal here?

You're not defeating Pine because dissecting posts from conf!scum is as useful as propane is used to extinguish a fire.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

When you say somewhat useful, are you using Pine's posts as part of your reasoning players are or are not aligned to a faction?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I am and will, but I will not use them as part of my argumentation.

That's quite the quandary...

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My favorite part is when a wagon reaches 3 votes. It's common sense that once a vote goes past 2 players, the possible scum slots(if they voted as a block) is negated and there is a townie in there.

Nacho, Fate, Prism

Aero, Ari, Vax

dreal, SirCakez, BTD6

These are just myself thinking out loud but I'm having fun with wagonomics

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm about confused on what you're accusing me of here. It reads to me that because I decided to do town things to fake town, not because I am town. I also have never asked people to town read me, I don't know where that came from because I know I'm scum read and it won't likely change. Also, for some reason, asking you to follow your own advice that you look for the scum agenda a player is pushing instead of what is at face value made me look more scummier in your eyes and that doesn't make sense to me.
Final note, when did I ask people to town read me or force the issue? It feels like a strawman because I dont remember saying that.

The basic accusation there is, yes, you did things that were town without them actually being town. And the pragmatic use for that is people would then assume you are town without you having done anything. Then when this doesn't work, you bring the issue forward more deliberately, by asking: "I did these things. Why would I do those things as scum?", the question you were hoping they'd ask automatically. Your request didn't come across as looking for a deeper motivation. But in there, there's a deeper motivation that makes sense as scum; it's what I just described. (Now granted, I've made this clear enough: presence of a scum motivation does not necessitate absence of a town motivation, and vice-versa. They can both be present. But you asked me what the scum motivation was and I obliged.)

So the conclusion you come up with is that I did it for scum motivation?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

mastin backing off nacho while still scumreading him is another scumtell

Fuck off.
No seriously.
I have nothing more to say to you than this.
I could explain to you any myriad of things about me.
I could explain to you any myriad of things about Nacho.
I could explain to you the intricate history and interplay we have.
But no.

I don't feel like dealing with that bullshit.

So instead I'm just going to say this one more time:
Fuck. off.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I seriously have a bad feeling about Mastin

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Mastin, what would you say you've done to make me think you're pro-town?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm sticking to my gut and I'm just waiting for the NK

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nacho, your opinion on myself?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If true, it feels surreal.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Misdirection because you purposefully planted seeds of doubt when there was no reason to.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The most uncomfortable thing about Mastin is her ability to be blunt. I'm not saying I'm like Mastin, but the things she accuses me of, I'm looking at her and seeing her do it as well. It confuses me because she's saying what I do is scummy behaviour yet the traits she claims are scum-motivated are in no way hidden in her own posts.

It's the simple fact that because I myself am town, it feels almost awkward to accuse her of it as I know anecdotally that what she says can actually come from town.

It's seriously such a mind fuck for me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I remember reading that the ones that try the hardest to not be manipulated are the ones manipulated most.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: The Bear

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If I'm being 100% honest, you forgetting a point really makes me think you're town.

It sounds like one of the biggest bullshit reasons but you're a thorough player. If you're anything like me, you'd want to, as scum, to make sure the posts are absolutely perfect and you've made every point and there is no doubt or stone unturned that you haven't answered before it is asked. I sense the town because you're more nonchalant; as in the small mental stress of worrying about yourself and other people are not present to encourage you to make the post perfect.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I remember reading that the ones that try the hardest to not be manipulated are the ones manipulated most.

Precisely why I am engaging in the way that I am engaging, by the way.

If you're wondering how that works, pay attention to my posts.

Pay reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal close attention to my posts.

If you don't think I'll be studying this game for a month after its finished lmao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Bear, why are you no longer doing your little quirks?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You didn't make a rhyme or anything and that's depressing

P-Edit: ^Fate Bait

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Why is that the reason you vote or not vote someone?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I mean you can answer or not answer the questions, it's not hard to figure out which one doesn't help your case

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm asking why you vote someone based on who they address in your hydra. You're part of the same hydra, it doesn't matter what one head posts and another doesn't, ya'll a unit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I took it literally when you said you'd unvote Fate if he said who he was addressing correctly; essentially making me think you actually didn't give a shit

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Fate

WAIT NEVERMIND!

Sorry bear, I went back and read why you voted Fate, you can go back to ignoring me, I simply glossed over your reaso- oh wait.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 10

• Secret Agent Jin ---
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  BTD6_MAKER ---------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  TheRealGin-N-Tonic -
  1 ( Secret Agent Jin, )
  L- 6
  
  
  Nachomamma8 --------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  Fate ---------------
  4 ( Aeronaut, Aristophanes, Vaxkiller, Monokuma, )
  L- 3
  
  
  drealmerz7 ---------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  Monokuma -----------
  4 ( Nachomamma8, Fate, Prism, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, )
  L- 3
  
  
  mastina ------------
  3 ( drealmerz7, SirCakez, BTD6_MAKER, )
  L- 4
  
  
  Aeronaut -----------
  1 ( mastina, )
  L- 6
  
  
  Prism --------------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  SirCakez -----------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  Vaxkiller ----------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  Aristophanes -------
  0 ( )
  L- 7
  
  
  
  Not Voting -
  0 ( Pine )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to Lynch
Deadline is in (expired on 2017-01-22 18:00:00)

Thank you <3

---you're welcome?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Camn, I was writing down the current votes and you posted that as I was halfway through, saved me the leg work

---I have a spreadsheet for that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I think the main reason I enjoy interacting with Pine so much is because he's been in my first game and with scum/daytalk plus winning it, you become friends quickly. He's also been in every game I've played sans one of those and now we have a hydra we're doing. I think it's fair to say that I do it because I genuinely like talking to the dude regardless of our alignments.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

yo Fate, do you think both Nacho and bear are scums?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What I'm gaining is this is going in circles and Nacho and you aren't going to be convinced Mono is town

What Mono argument do you find compelling?
Let's talk about it!

Or, alternatively, can you tell me how Mono expected Fate to follow up with Pine's answer?

Or, alternatively, can you tell me with a straight face that Fate asking a question to Pine is equivalent with Gin's buddy buddy interactions with Pine?

I've been skimming honestly, it all started blending together
A concise explanation of your read on Mono would be awesome

I'm pretty sure his questions are exactly some of the reason's he's scum reading Mono...

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nacho is asking you how town!Mono would ask those questions or accuse Fate of what Mono accused Fate of doing, in regards to the questions he listed. (I think I read that right)

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

bonnnnnnngs

I could go for a hit right now, I already got the little ceasers to rock with it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nacho is asking you how town!Mono would ask those questions or accuse Fate of what Mono accused Fate of doing, in regards to the questions he listed. (I think I read that right)

Yes I understand that, I mean I have no idea what he's referring to by " Fate asking a question to Pine is equivalent with Gin's buddy buddy interactions with Pine" or "Mono expected Fate to follow up with Pine's answer".

Are you doing a thing called reading? If so follow up, the thread?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm just going to reread.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Spoiler: When am I allowed to vote?

Yo yo yo!!

I told you guys I'd be here eventually!

Have I missed any good partying and/or trolling?

Camn, I love your Mod colour!!

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

Hahaha!
This is definitely my kind of party then!

We almost put a ball gag on Pine, it's been a hoot

Hahaha!
This is definitely my kind of party then!

Oh yeah, we got the cat nine tails and floggers but between you and I, Camn isn't exactly the best at making the knots tight

Should have used a Venusaur instead of a Ninetails to ensure strong knots! Dat Vine Whip

My bloodthirst rises with postless hours, my friends.
I hope you are getting ready to tell me who PINE'S SCUMMY FRIENDS are.

I mean, I'm waiting on Mastin -I Opisthobranchia (I'm keeping that there because autocorrect is hilarious)- to explain to me how blatantly saying I'm good at playing scum will help further a scum agenda.

The hell were you trying to type!?!?!?

My bloodthirst rises with postless hours, my friends.
I hope you are getting ready to tell me who PINE'S SCUMMY FRIENDS are.

Don't you worry, will bag 'em and tag 'em soon enough!

Mastin if you're guaranteeing Pine made optimal picks based on your meta knowledge of him then we need to lynch Nacho and no one but Nacho until Nachos dead

Lynching Nacho is so sad though.

Mastina, I love the coloured avatar!

I agree, lynching Nacho is sad. We should be listening more to him.

Nacho, who do you think is scum?

Nice mind games!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I see the viewcount go up but no one posting to switch to Aristophanes...

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

This is pretty convincing, but then I'll have too many scumreads.
I also like BTD6's analysis of Mastina's WIFOM/Optimal wallpost.

Doing my reread now

Hey if you need to buy any tickets, I got a great site for ya.
https://www.busbuster.com/en/carriers/g ... hgodmygBWA

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Cakez, realize Mastin will die to a night kill or will crumble later on, you don't have to trust Mastin to not trust me here. I don't understand how lynching Mastin, who is town as fuck, will help here.

Lynching Mastin today is moreso done out of fear than it is scum reading. I'm also not seeing as to why you are convinced about my case against Pisskop yet not willing to vote.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's hard to get votes on someone that's town, no fucking shit sherlock.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm not understanding why if you agree with me, that you won't change your vote.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Are you saying it's harder to vote someone that's been acting scummy and has a good case on why they are scum over someone who has been showing town throughout the thread?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts

Oh would ya look at that, Ari is posting elsewhere and not on the thread bearing more proof that he's fulfilling his scum meta.

What more do you seriously need?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I know what I said is in the rules and is allowed. Doesn't disprove a point. Now fuck all that and put it behind and vote Ari.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

This still doesn't go away and it's more than enough reason to vote Pisskop/Ari.

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Are you saying it's harder to vote someone that's been acting scummy and has a good case on why they are scum over someone who has been showing town throughout the thread?

No, it will be harder to lynch someone who is constantly posting walls and is rather active then a lurker who is pretty consistently lynched as scum

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts

Oh would ya look at that, Ari is posting elsewhere and not on the thread bearing more proof that he's fulfilling his scum meta.

What more do you seriously need?

Ari will be very easy to lynch if he's scum, mastin will be very difficult
Like you're proving it right now

You lynch scum when you got conf!scum. You're actively defending Ari's slot and it's not boding well for you.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

At this point we know Ari is 100% scum. There is no need not to vote this guy up. Mastin is town simple as that.

Look, Mastin is one of those that you require to use over half of the entire tool belt to lynch and those tools can't be used until flips have been made later down the road. That's what you get for being experienced as scum. However it's pretty clear she'll be killed N1 or N2, after that, it's worth taking into consideration...

I simply don't understand the value of going on a possible mislynch over a conf!scum lynch.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

there's just not enough rope to go around

WHICH IS A FUCKING OVERSIGHT, MODDDDDD, IN THIS SUPPOSED TORTURENA!

Camnnnnn is there double day?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It wouldn't be fair for me not too.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

When he went multiple days without posting actual content; on the days he wasn't V/LA.

Normally a meta read isn't the only tool to use on a player but Ari is one of those exceptions and this becomes apparently true as Ari admits it.

Now I'm waiting because I didn't honestly suspect a post from him.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Cakez, you can stop trying to discredit my push as it is still very much there.

You can ask almost anyone in the playerlist, and Ari himself which I can quote him saying IN THIS GAME, that he can't play scum at all and won't post in-game content. It's a rare situation to call someone conf!scum based on their meta, and Ari might be able to help me out here, but there was a game where he replaced in as scum and was the perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's just part of Ari and it's a singular case that wouldn't normally apply to someone else.

Also, once Ari said he'd be going through the thread, which he started doing, I saw content, opinions being formed, so naturally this heavily tilts the read on that slot. Now, Ari has to keep it up because I will be hounding him for content and if he's scum, he'll break.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

BTD6, have you truly read anything I wrote?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

This entire thing was on Pisskop actually, and I added meta as simply one more part of the reason why Ari is indeed scum. Saying my entire case is just based off of Ari's meta is blatant misrepresentation of what I've said from the start.

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

May I ask what grabbed your attention enough to respond to me?

I'm finding it out that throughout the game, you voted Mastin based on her playing games with Pine and then stuck onto Mastin never letting go of a scum read. You've done a couple posts on her but what I find most interesting is that all this time that I've been talking, as have others been talking in this thread, I vote Aristophanes and build a case on him, and now you feel that it is worthy enough of your time to argue why Aristophanes isn't scum.

What was it about myself putting a vote on Aristophanes that made you lose tunnel vision on Mastin?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

She's posted 128 out of 1062 posts this game; that's roughly 10% of the total posts in this game. Now, why is it that 6 out of your 8 posts before you came on today, talked strictly about Mastin and only Mastin?

You've focused on 10% of the game and you're going to tell me that out of the other 90% of the game, mind you is around 800-900 posts, you had nothing actually stand out in front of you?


I will be going over your rebuttals of my points in a second.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

This is your only Ari case in the last few pages. I can list your main points:

-Pisskop posting little content. This is not something which makes someone obvscum. In fact, Pisskop was probably posting little content because he didn't have time for this game, which is why he replaced.
-Ari being allegedly bad as scum. You could say that Ari is scummier as scum, but that is meta. Meta is not useless, but it cannot make someone obvTown or obvscum.
-The VCA. VCA is generally unreliable (though possible, it is very weak) in Day 1 with no flips at all.
-Pisskop giving next to no explanation for moving votes. I can see your point and this could add to a scumread, but this does not make someone obvscum. Even added together, these points may make someone a weak to moderate scumread, but not obvscum and definitely not confscum. (Unless you are a Day Cop, but I highly doubt that)

PEdit: I have addressed these points in this post.

-Posting little content is a term called "fluffing." I never said that just fluffing made Pisskop obv!scum, just like any valid case, it is one small part in the big picture.

-Ari isn't "allegedly bad as scum." The quote below is confirmation by the accused that what I am saying is true. Arguing that this is not true is ignorance of the facts.

Ari can't play scum to save his life

Sad but true.
However, I hadn't read, like, any of the game yet and am doing that now. Get back to me after I catch up a bit and see how you feel. Okay?

-The VCA is a tool, in which used correctly, will not be damning by itself, BUT, included in the analysis of a player and finding other reasons as to why he is scummy, it is valid reasoning.

-You said "could add to a scumread." This is exactly what it's doing as it's strengthens the case against Pisskop.

All these points listed by themselves mean very little, however when you take everything together, you have a slam dunk case on to why someone is scum to the point where I'm that confident in it that it couldn't possibly be a town slot.

It's only saving grace right now is that I respect Ari and he said he would read the thread, if he can't produce content within a day or two(which is enough time to catch up), there will be nothing stopping me from parking my vote as that is the final nail on the coffin.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

fluffing as in?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

pronage?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Content my dog, produce it.

P-Edit: Thank you, this thread is fucking dead and progresses like it's tied down by lead.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Pine, tell me a story, I'm bored

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

(expired on 2017-01-17 04:00:00)

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Mainly yes, and I'm having fun learning how to do a bunch of cool stuff with all the little twitches you can do on your posts

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

unless someone daycops Mastina, I'm focusing on Pisskop/Ari slot right now.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's your case on Mastin?

P-Edit: Ari, you know what I seek lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Ya now that Ari is providing content I'm really deadset on Mastina/Fate going today

It still feels a lot moreso of a social interaction than it does him scum hunting.

Also, I'm not lynching out of 'fear'

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

the last sentence directed towards drealz

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

dreal, your case is literally "mastin is scum" and you form you reads based off of what Pine says. Your ISO, and argument, are not convincing at all.

P-Edit: Understood.

P-Edit 2: CONTENT YES

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Aristophanes, I have a small but what I think is valid town case on mastin I'd like ya to have your input on.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

For a player like Mastin, this is what makes me think she's town.

If I'm being 100% honest, you forgetting a point really makes me think you're town.

It sounds like one of the biggest bullshit reasons but you're a thorough player. If you're anything like me, you'd want to, as scum, to make sure the posts are absolutely perfect and you've made every point and there is no doubt or stone unturned that you haven't answered before it is asked. I sense the town because you're more nonchalant; as in the small mental stress of worrying about yourself and other people are not present to encourage you to make the post perfect.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

you are like scum#3 though, gin

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're adorable if you think I won't ask why you say that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Of course you wont ya frickin noodle.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Dont ask me what that means, it's what the first thing that came to my head was.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Aristophanes, I have a small but what I think is valid town case on mastin I'd like ya to have your input on.

I'd be delighted! Lets see what you've got!

For a player like Mastin, this is what makes me think she's town.

If I'm being 100% honest, you forgetting a point really makes me think you're town.

It sounds like one of the biggest bullshit reasons but you're a thorough player. If you're anything like me, you'd want to, as scum, to make sure the posts are absolutely perfect and you've made every point and there is no doubt or stone unturned that you haven't answered before it is asked. I sense the town because you're more nonchalant; as in the small mental stress of worrying about yourself and other people are not present to encourage you to make the post perfect.

This is quite interesting. Mastina sometimes will create a flaw in order for people to change their reads. It's a manipulative tool. I'm not seeing it in that way here, so I get what you're saying. If this were any other player, I'd be voting them right now, because they are showing such flaws in logic and understanding. But I know she doesn't work that way. Like, read our Scum thread from Inorganic Chemistry. She is meticulous. She exploits people's suspicions on herself and others. She is crafty AF!

I know this isn't a full or a good answer, but it's what I've got atm.

MFing Ninjas!

I enjoy working with you in the future

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Cakez, realize Mastin will die to a night kill or will crumble later on, you don't have to trust Mastin to not trust me here. I don't understand how lynching Mastin, who is town as fuck, will help here.

You know it's kinda skeevy that your reach change on me comes after I stopped pushing you.

Justsayin'.

WOE IS ME for changing an opinion.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

{mastina, Nacho}
{dreal, Fate}
{Prism, SirCakez}
{Secret Agent Jin, Aeronaut}
{Vax, BTD6, Monkuma, Ari}
{}

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You have three town: You, drealmerz, and BTD6.

This really bothers me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

SAJ, Ari, Monkuma, and BTD6 are my lynch pool of the day

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My town read from Fate comes from the fact that both Mastin and Nacho thinks he's town and the attacks on him were subpar.

My logic comes from that Nacho, Fate, Mastin can't all be scum and of course I'm town reading that bloc but nonetheless, if anyone of them are town, I trust in their say on the other two because they have history with each other. If both Mastin and nacho think he's town, I'm willing to concur.

Also the attacks on him, I've never agreed with and thought were weak arguments that were shot down. That being the only 'scummy' thing the slot did, I have no reason to see them in the scumlight if there is no other scumminess to go around.