Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[Sesq]

Good luck non-humans.

[Sesq]

VOTE: doomfeathers For tossing shade on me with no evidence.

[Sesq]

This is clearly OMGUS.

VOTE: Sesq

That was the most reasoning you'll ever see out of RVS.

[Sesq]

Did nobody read their PM, votes aren't counted yet as we haven't officially started day 1.

So on that note.

VOTE: sesq

I legit don't know anyone in this game properly. Especially not your play. Anyone in the secret hydra aware of my play or who I am?

What secret hydra?

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

[Sesq]

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

Why no reasoning behind this revote?

Same reasoning as my earlier vote, just redoing it because I wasn't sure if my earlier vote counted.

[Sesq]

Wow, I want to play Doom for an hour, get something quick to eat, chat with friends, and now I have the largest wagon on me for doing the same shit as at least 2 other (FC and Revan, perhaps others I forgot or more in the future). Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of. In fact, if we wish to talk about wagons, how about Hawk or Mozamis (of whom has contributed very little, may I add.) This is fucking imbecilic. Anyway, here's your reads, by person:

Mozamis - The wagon hop onto me (with Hawk), them mutually townreading eachother, and overall him not contributing much makes it clear who my vote is going with.
Magna - Normal town responses, it looks like. Null-town.
Hawk - The aforementioned, looks like a possible scumteam with Mozamis. Other posts seem to be going down kind of random trails. It could possibly be a town player who's just kinda disconnected with the game.
wgeurts - Real meaty scumhunting. Strong townread. His vote for me over FC when we are literally on the same level on his reads I'm not taking as anything, it could just as well be FC as I.
Revan - One of those near-nothing posters. A bit more than I remembered, but it's all fluff.
Ultimate Despair - Hasn't done anything. I don't know.
lucca261 - Posts look fine enough, but I have this extremely unshakeable gut feeling this guy is scum, if not Mozamis or Hawk. I'm not voting him for it unless I see anything with my brain.
Superhans - Came in, quoted Donkey Ollie, and left. Absolutely nothing to tell.
Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.
doomfeathers - This one is interesting. There was some weird LAMIST stuff, they voted for me, I have no idea where to place them now. They are outside ranking.
havingfitz - "catching up". No reads yet, obviously.

So with all that I'm indeed going VOTE: Mozamis.

[Sesq]

Oh yeah, and I was going to post a ranking, from towniest to scummiest. Here we go:

UNCATEGORICAL:
Ultimate Despair
Superhans
havingitz

none of them have done anything, so, nothing for now.
TOWN:
wgeurts

NULLTOWN:
Magna
Revan

NULL:
doomfeathers

NULLSCUM:
lucca261 (it's all gut, idk)
Friend Computer

SCUM:
Hawk
Mozamis

I should point out that FC is kind of "too little to post", but I think it's enough for placement.

PEDIT: I feel as if df didn't fully read my post...

[Sesq]

Wagons aren't always a bad thing, as Hawk said.

I would FOS Magna, but his scumhunting makes me inclined to believe he is town.

It was a kinda bad one, and of right now is a definitely worse one than yours.

[Sesq]

Well, that's at least some content.

UNVOTE: Friend Computer

I need to think about my next votee.

It's content, but is it meaningful content? One of scum's easiest things is posting just to post without being productive and tricking town into thinking they are.

[Sesq]

I'm still searching for where I townread mozamis since apparently I missed something the Sesq pointed out. I don't particularly find his content all that informative or thrilling.

TheLegend27 is town
Soft town leans on Magna, UD, and Lucca.

Scum leans on Mozamis and Sesq tho to be honest only one of the two is probably scum and I don't have enough content from Mozamis to assess but I'm not sure where Sesq thinks I was town reading him prior...

Null everyone else or if leans they're not super strong plus two lurkers. I would like to get some more people to give listing opinions so we can compare names. I'm sure Magna would appreciate this as well if I'm to understand his playstyle.

Pedit: thanks Doom. I don't really like the way you're playing but I guess it's not that scummy... I would rather us stay on a wagon longer so we can get some good back and forth with a person rather than the few posts from Sesq and FC.

No, you didn't townread Mozamis, and I shouldn't have said that. However, you didn't say anything about them beforehand, so ?

If I remade my ranks I'd probably put you below FC, but if mozamis flipped I'd put you under heavy suspicion. That wagon follow with little justification just doesn't hit with me right.

Also, still don't know how to read UD.

[Sesq]

wrt post 57....sesq. Is your "official" vote on doom an RVS vote?

No, it was a serious vote based on his LAMIST setup posts.

Just stop with this misrepping.

[Sesq]

wrt post 57....sesq. Is your "official" vote on doom an RVS vote?

No, it was a serious vote based on his LAMIST setup posts.

Just stop with this misrepping.

There's no misrep here. You never stated any reason of the sort. You voted me because I voted you in RVS, then confirmed your vote without explanation.

I later clarified that it was due to your pre-game LAMIST stuff. Saying now that my motivation was wagoning is a misrepresentation.

[Sesq]

Town: Lucca
Townlean: Magna, wgeurts
Null: Everybody else
Nullscum: Doom

I agree with you, it's hard to be garbage they barely even exist.

[Sesq]

Sesq's 15, this was unnecessary, no?

I don't like your playstyle and feel that it is potentially scum motivated (may just be lazy town though). I get the sense from

Wow, I want to play Doom for an hour, get something quick to eat, chat with friends, and now I have the largest wagon on me for doing the same shit as at least 2 other (FC and Revan, perhaps others I forgot or more in the future). Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of. In fact, if we wish to talk about wagons, how about Hawk or Mozamis (of whom has contributed very little, may I add.) This is fucking imbecilic. Anyway, here's your reads, by person:

Mozamis - The wagon hop onto me (with Hawk), them mutually townreading eachother, and overall him not contributing much makes it clear who my vote is going with.
Magna - Normal town responses, it looks like. Null-town.
Hawk - The aforementioned, looks like a possible scumteam with Mozamis. Other posts seem to be going down kind of random trails. It could possibly be a town player who's just kinda disconnected with the game.
wgeurts - Real meaty scumhunting. Strong townread. His vote for me over FC when we are literally on the same level on his reads I'm not taking as anything, it could just as well be FC as I.
Revan - One of those near-nothing posters. A bit more than I remembered, but it's all fluff.
Ultimate Despair - Hasn't done anything. I don't know.
lucca261 - Posts look fine enough, but I have this extremely unshakeable gut feeling this guy is scum, if not Mozamis or Hawk. I'm not voting him for it unless I see anything with my brain.
Superhans - Came in, quoted Donkey Ollie, and left. Absolutely nothing to tell.
Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.
doomfeathers - This one is interesting. There was some weird LAMIST stuff, they voted for me, I have no idea where to place them now. They are outside ranking.
havingfitz - "catching up". No reads yet, obviously.

So with all that I'm indeed going VOTE: Mozamis.

that you are only making the reads

because

you're the biggest wagon, not because you're town motivated. Talking about transparency (@Raven) I would say Sesq is one of the least transparent players right now. These reads aren't exactly easy to follow. You say Magna is producing 'normal (it looks like) town responses' therefore is town.

Your read on Hawk is unbelievably audacious especially considering you're linking her with a possible scum partner!

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff. Since then his play's become more null. I made the read list because I hadn't been reading the game too well up to then and I wanted to get into it. I probably wouldn't have placed a fourth vote on Doomfeathers if I had realized that was a fourth vote. I don't understand what you mean by not being transparent. I have nothing to hide, as I'm not a PR, so if you want to know anything more about my reads do contact me. As for hawk, I put them at null-scum for their earlygame reasoning and the 4th vote on me for reasons more applicable to other people. In hindsight associating them with mozamis is probably not accurate. I will admit with Magna that I didn't see anything and was just cranking something out so that he appeared on the readlist. I know everyone's going to go up in arms and think this an associative tell, but I really didn't see anything. Will look over it again now.

As for Hawk's recent killing, well, that read is obviously untrue. I think we should look over his ISO and see why he'd be killed now.

For doomfeathers' theory of Superhaus killing him, the posts were 1-2 minutes apart from his to hawk being dead. Also, kills take time to occur after being submitted, so *shrug*

I'll move over to VOTE: Family Computer due to them not doing anything.

[Sesq]

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff. Since then his play's become more null. I made the read list because I hadn't been reading the game too well up to then and I wanted to get into it. I probably wouldn't have placed a fourth vote on Doomfeathers if I had realized that was a fourth vote. I don't understand what you mean by not being transparent.

I have nothing to hide, as I'm not a PR, so if you want to know anything more about my reads do contact me.

As for hawk, I put them at null-scum for their earlygame reasoning and the 4th vote on me for reasons more applicable to other people. In hindsight associating them with mozamis is probably not accurate. I will admit with Magna that I didn't see anything and was just cranking something out so that he appeared on the readlist. I know everyone's going to go up in arms and think this an associative tell, but I really didn't see anything. Will look over it again now.

The bolded sentence looks very odd to me. First, contact outside the thread is against the forum rules. Second, there are no PRs except the 2-shot day goon, who obviously isn't going to confess. Is Sesq going out of her way to imply she's a townie?

When I said "contact me" I meant in-thread. If you try to PM me about game stuff I'm going to report you. I knew there aren't PRs this game, and sometimes PRs have things to hide, even on the side of town, so I was saying that because I'm VT I have absolutely no information to hide.

[Sesq]

Also, I realized that there is a small chance Lucca could have submitted the kill if he stayed online from the time he submitted the kill until I checked his last login. It seems unlikely, though.

I wouldn't exclude him automatically. That said, did he have any interactions with Hawk? I don't know, I think everyone should be open for scrutiny.

Also, karnos said I have to have my vote be on a different line, so

VOTE: Family Computer

Yeah. Same as before.

[Sesq]

Honestly, too tired to post and analyse right now.

Will post by the morning.

By now, the Hawk kill seems random. There was not anything about his kill that would make anyone townier or scummier. I think that maybe we were going on the right track, and so, they killed Hawk to reset the lynches and try to put paranoia on us.

But why someone who had a relatively high amount of heat?

My gut-read of you just grows stronger. Near irresistible.

[Sesq]

Honestly, too tired to post and analyse right now.

Will post by the morning.

By now, the Hawk kill seems random. There was not anything about his kill that would make anyone townier or scummier. I think that maybe we were going on the right track, and so, they killed Hawk to reset the lynches and try to put paranoia on us.

But why someone who had a relatively high amount of heat?

My gut-read of you just grows stronger. Near irresistible.

Do you mean "why NOT someone who had a relatively high amount of heat"? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Nor do I understand what was actually wrong with the supposition that we were on the right track and that the point of the kill was to mess with us somehow?

Personally, I think that "we were on the right track so scum kinda panicked" makes more sense than "this was a well-thought out plan to magically get town distracted", but the more important idea that it reinforces the notion that our reads were generally correct (regardless of the level of careful thought that went into the shot) seems pretty reasonable to me, and I don't understand why this is a scum point in your mind for lucca, so I'd like you lay out your reasoning more clearly so i can get it.

-M

Well, it depends what goal scum was going for. If they were trying to get rid of someone to distract, why would it be someone they could potentially mislynch? Then again, Hawk might be onto scum, and if he is lynched he could have killed scum. Alternate setup stuff. I think this hypothesis has some credibility, but it might be in duality with trying to freak out town. Regardless, we should try to get our bearings.

As for it being a scum point for lucca, it's all gut. I know I have no legitimate evidence and I'm not going to pretend as if I do. But if he does flip scum, oh boy am I going to have a day analyzing his posts to see what triggered my gut.

[Sesq]

Also add a third possibility, the scum just want to mess around.

A possibility indeed. It did get our attention (and yours).

Sesq - Town lean

As already discussed sesq's vote in post 57 on doom could be seen as opportunism, him being a newer player makes this a possibility of a scum post. The manner he responds to this pressure in post 64 leads me to question this however. The "why me fry me" is concerning, however the aggression makes sense from a frustrated town perspective. Which leads me to the following question:

Do you have any scum-games you can link us to sesq?

If evidence can be found for him playing aggressively as scum would erase the above and make it entirely null.

His reads are okay, nothing that really strongly leans either way but I'm giving them ever so slight town points as they are valid and do somewhat make sense. He's showing some indication of thought in post 137, and 188 is acceptable. I do like how he's stating that he's open to explaining himself wherever though. The final comment on lucca in 212 is also brutally honest, and something I really struggle to see a scum player making (especially a newer one). Newer players have the tendency to want to seem completely justified in all that they do as scum, often obsessively so. Either that or they do this apathetic opportunistic thingy. I'm willing to lean town on sesq.

Yeah. I've only had one complete game on this account and it was as scum, over here, and the mafia PT is here. Daychat was enabled, and my approach was "I'm basically gonna be town, I'll bus the fuck out of everyone." I won in the end. The aggressive play here was from me being gone for an hour and coming back to a wagon of 4 on me. It's like when you're trying to speak but everyone's speaking over you and letting their fantasies get out of control about what horrible things you do. That of course wasn't literally the case but the anger was sourced from there.

Sesq 132

What has Revan done differently than Friend to justify the null-town and null-scum reads? I feel like they are playing very similarly.

This question got me going. Then I remembered Revan has actually done things, in comparison to old Famicom over here.

[Sesq]

As for it being a scum point for lucca, it's all gut.

Oh come on ,this isn't acceptable.
Lazy scum.

You conveniently cut out the parts in which I say that I'm not going to make a vote on zero evidence (and by extension, nor should anyone else).

This cherrypicking really doesn't bode well for you.

PEDIT: Why?

[Sesq]

I feel like mozamis's 68 read is scum KNOWING it wasn't a gambit. Mozamis is definitely in my lynch pool for today, but I still want some content before voting.

i've posted a lot, put up or shut up.

Your defense is "I've posted a lot."

I'd put this up as being either scum or being absolutely fucking terrible at this, but you've been around here for a while.

Has anyone here played with Mozamis before, and how does it usually go for him, be it town or scum?

[Sesq]

Actually I'll go even further. Generically, I would consider it fairly likely that one of the following is true

1) FC or Sesq was the scum dayvig and panicked
2) FC and Sesq were both scum and they both (or perhaps their whole team) collectively panicked

I think that Hawk was a pretty bizarre shot if this was some kind of well thought out, intentional scum strategy. I think that it's exceptionally strange to waste one of two valuable kill shots on a relative newbie who has made only 15 posts, at a time when day 1 was nowhere close to being over (scum get only two free kills, and it is highly likely that at some point during the game, at least one townie will emerge as someone that the scum REALLY want dead but can't easily get mislynched, and there is a pretty decent list of people here who could plausibly slip into that role eventually). The most logical explanation is, rather than this being a wise move, that this was a panicked and ill-thought out reaction to the game state.

Not sure whether that makes me want to wagon Sesq or FC, but I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd want to wagon elsewhere.

-M

Why would I want to kill someone I could make a scumread out of?

[Sesq]

Why would I want to kill someone I could make a scumread out of?

Well, you were being wagoned and he wasn't, for starters. I don't think it'd be a GOOD reason to shoot him, but i could certainly see it being A reason for you to shoot him.

Who do you think had the most kill motive on Hawk then, and why?

I think right now it was just something to distract and put people off. He might have posed a threat to someone, or it could be framing me i hope to get me mislynched, but I heavily doubt that last one.

Overall, I don't know, and nor does anyone else it seems. Definitely don't stop looking into it, though.

[Sesq]

I don't think we should analyze the DKs, it's just a waste of time.

This reeks of scum.

[Sesq]

It's non-productive. I never analyze NKs or DKs, they are just a bunch of WIFOM. We should just continue scumhunting.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


AAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

This is stupid.

[Sesq]

What? From my point of view, Hawk could've been killed for a lot of reasons. Since we don't know what reason, it's useless bothering.

No, we continue until we do know.

I kinda want some other players in here though, some new things maybe.

PEDIT: As if FC isn't one of my scumreads. I'll jump off he goes to L-1 probably, but that's not even worth thinking about right now.

[Sesq]

Fine, you guys continue trying to solve the mystery. I just think it's really easy for scum to send town down the wrong trail here if we analyze too deeply.

I think you almost succeeded at that yourself.

[Sesq]

If we don't analyze the DK, we won't be set on the wrong track. If scum is trying to influence town to mislynch, it's up to town to ignore the influence, and analyze each player. That's where I stand on this.

I do have previous experience on a non-mafia forum. Fortunately, some of them play here so I'm familiar with the terminology. They are also the reason I'm here!

Analaysis of the DK won't necessarily lead to the mislynch of who Mafia was targeting for.

[Sesq]

I still refuse to partake in this shenanigans. :/

Town town town post.

Looks like a contradiction to me, and you look like you may be backing up scum to me. Then again, Revan looked like he was trying to distract town, and his stopping of it feels kinda town, and then IDK

I guess Mozamis could still be scum and Revan town, and I'm going with that. VOTE: Mozamis until he starts being productive and/or less scummy.

[Sesq]

I still refuse to partake in this shenanigans. :/

Town town town post.

Looks like a contradiction to me, and you look like you may be backing up scum to me. Then again, Revan looked like he was trying to distract town, and his stopping of it feels kinda town, and then IDK

I guess Mozamis could still be scum and Revan town, and I'm going with that. VOTE: Mozamis until he starts being productive and/or less scummy.

What is the contradiction? And how is Mozami "backing up"? His 241 expressed irritation at Revan without containing suspicion/scum read, and his 238 expressly indicated a town read there. So as a potential town process, it actually looks highly consistent.

What am i missing here?

-M

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

[Sesq]

[quote="In post 273

Sesq

hit my radar solidly at 130. Others have mentioned and I agree the “why am I getting wagonned for what others have done” sentiment feels like scum expressing “caught for the wrong reasons” frustration. The sudden “here is my full reads list” also feels scum who didn’t realize skating by in the early game was not going to work for and 180ed into a “Super Town Mode”. Then let’s talk about the following posts –

Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of.

Let’s look at the original vote in question –

VOTE: doomfeathers For tossing shade on me with no evidence.

And a quick follow-up post –

This is clearly OMGUS.

VOTE: Sesq

That was the most reasoning you'll ever see out of RVS.

I don’t see “He was LAMIST posting” in this original vote and the followup basically says “No reasoning to be had”. Even his revote didn’t say “Doom was LAMIST posting”. That logic only appeared after Sesq got pressure for the revote and piggybacked off other people’s logic (my own).

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff.

No it wasn’t. 57 and 64 both say it was “same reasoning as earlier vote” which quoted above was “tossing shade”. Nothing about LAMIST at all. Looks very much like retroactive attempt to justify the bad hop on Doom.[/quote]

"Caught for the wrong reasons"? What does that even mean? The reason I posted my reads then is because up until that point I wasn't actually being serious about the game at all. What prompted this was a message by wgeurts telling me to read the thread.

The original vote was RVS and wasn't intended as a serious vote. The vote afterward - actually fuck it, I've explained this like 8 times, read the fucking thread. I don't want my ISO to be me explaining stupid RVS bullshit to every other person in the game.

The one thing you bring up that I didn't realize was 64. I definitely, distinctly remember voting doomfeathers for his LAMIST bs. Maybe I wasn't all in control then, idk.

[Sesq]

I realize I'm coming up as angry in my previous response. The reason is that I hate having to repeat myself a million times and I want to actually look at something new in the game.

[Sesq]

"Caught for the wrong reasons"? What does that even mean? The reason I posted my reads then is because up until that point I wasn't actually being serious about the game at all. What prompted this was a message by wgeurts telling me to read the thread.

The original vote was RVS and wasn't intended as a serious vote. The vote afterward - actually fuck it, I've explained this like 8 times, read the fucking thread. I don't want my ISO to be me explaining stupid RVS bullshit to every other person in the game.

The one thing you bring up that I didn't realize was 64. I definitely, distinctly remember voting doomfeathers for his LAMIST bs. Maybe I wasn't all in control then, idk.

I think "caught for the wrong reasons" is pretty self explanatory - it is the feeling scum get when they get attention in the way of pressure that they don't feel makes sense. In your case it seems to be getting flack for something you seem to think multiple other players are guilty of as well.

The rest of this is terrible hand-waving. I have read the thread. Your desire to have the issue just go away doesn't really concern me. Your "recollection" doesn't line up with anything posted in thread. And now you are trying to peddle "I was sure I did it for that reason" and "Oh, I wasn't being serious" as explanations. Not convincing at all.

I kinda realized I've been an idiot just now, hehe. It really wasn't the same reasons with me, as Revan or FC didn't have that RVS stuff.

I was completely and entirely aware it looked like terrible handwaving, but really what else am I going to do? I've already set myself up in a terrible position and it doesn't look like there's a way out other than by extreme chance. I'd vote myself to be honest. Maybe if FC gets too much. I am a new player, but I do not wish to hide behind that. Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

I'd also like to apologize for coming off as an angry asshole. Because I was an angry asshole.

[Sesq]

Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

Ummm ... since when does scum having daychat mean that scum are prevented from making bad in thread posts again? Daychat isn't some magical salve that sooths all problems for the scum team. In fact the usefulness of it is directly proportional to the ability of the scum team and their willingness to use it.

I do suppose most of the stupidity happened well before anything would have been established.

I'm accepting defeat at the hands of my own stupidity and laziness here.

[Sesq]

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.
I think you are panicing scum.

VOTE SESQ

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.

No. What happened was Revan said that UD was correct about DK being a good place to look for scum, and then stubbornly refused not to do so themselves. Why does this mean I'm panicing scum? If there's more context to this I'd like to see it.

Also I'm a girl. BLAAAH

[Sesq]

he

learn to read please

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

[Sesq]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

Except for the people that townread me

[Sesq]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

Except for the people that townread me

This is a really off comment to make.

In what way?

Unless you're implying nobody townreads me, save for myself of course. Even then I'm starting to think I may have misread my Role PM on accident.

[Sesq]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

[Sesq]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?

Yes I am. I have not read past this post yet by the way, so yeah.

[Sesq]

Unless we can hit the shooter, let's lynch Sesq today. She's very obviously playing against the town wincon.

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

What type of question is this?

FC's ISO is bare. I don't think voting him will change this.

It seems odd to me is all. It shows emotional response directed (for some reason) at the mod, and emotional responses can be very telling. It's a reaction to

something

.

How am I actively playing against town's win condition? Revan's disuasion from analyzing DK is one of the only play I've seen I would identify as overtly anti-town.

Also is that lynch or L-1? Regardless, this game will end up pretty interesting.

[Sesq]

I have 0% hope that I'm not somehow getting lynched today. Sorry to be a waste of time to Town, I guess. Is self-hammering allowed? I'd do it right now if possible.

[Sesq]

Well, if anyone at this point it's VOTE: Revan, this man's play is scummy as shit. I might construct something tomorrow, but I realize that even twitching my finger at this point is a scumtell.

[Sesq]

Well, if anyone at this point it's VOTE: Revan, this man's play is scummy as shit. I might construct something tomorrow, but I realize that even twitching my finger at this point is a scumtell.

no, you doing scummy shit is scumtells.

you're trying to build up this image of yourself as a suffering martyr who has given up on all hope and is being scumread by everyone for the slightest things because they made some fucked up comments earlier

stop building up that image

Every great joke requires buildup.

I do sincerely believe Revan to be scum though. Maybe with Lucca, I had an initial gutread of which I may revisit OH WAIT

[Sesq]

Also is that lynch or L-1? Regardless, this game will end up pretty interesting.

That's four votes needed out of seven. Especially telling is that Sesq keeps resigning herself to the lynch long before it's certain to happen. The "Oh, well, lynch me" post was made when she had a whopping one vote (which had been on her pretty much all game anyway). This hyper-sensitivity very strongly implies guilt.

I had a thought. Does anyone else think it likely that this is an agreed-upon bus by mozamis? (If it is, I see no problem with helping it along.)

What happened is that I forgot the votes had been reset after Hawk's kill. I've been doing a terrible of job of keeping track of this

As for what Revan's doing, I'm seeing a lot of inconsistent play. Him dissuading the DK analysis and fluff-posting really doesn't look towny to me.

As for my wagon melodrama hypertrash... well, it's more buildup, and with that I can't really argue.

[Sesq]

New readslist. Top is scum, bottom is town.
-Scum-
Revan
Friend Computer
-Nullscum-
lucca261
mozamis
-Null-
havingfitz
-Nulltown-
MagnaOfIllusion
doomfeathers
Superhans
-Town-
wgeurts
Ultimate Despair

Do I have advanced explanations? Nah, not really. A lot of scummier reads before have toned down due to recent play, other than that things are the same as before mostly.

[Sesq]

VOTE: Friend Computer

Moving back to him as the whole “Sesq is defeated” posting she has been making timed with Friend Computer’s conspicuous absence paints a picture to me of a Scum Goon trying to take the bullet for the Scum Daykiller to make sure they don’t miss out on their second Daykill.

The timeline fits. Sesq and Friend were the players under pressure when the Daykill went off with Friend being under more pressure. Votes more or less immediately piled up on Friend after the reset. Sesq begins her “Woe is me” act at 287. At the time she had ZERO votes (see the Mod vote-count at 276) and Friend had racked up 5 of the 7 needed to lynch.

Furthermore I’m seeing the following –

Well, if anyone at this point it's VOTE: Revan, this man's play is scummy as shit. I might construct something tomorrow, but I realize that even twitching my finger at this point is a scumtell.

New readslist. Top is scum, bottom is town.
-Scum-
Revan
Friend Computer

Sesq was voting Friend right after the vote was reset. She was part of the group that got him to 5 votes. And supposedly is scum reading him. Yet she doesn’t vote him who is the viable counter-wagon to her. Regardless of alignment she should be wanting to lynch the more viable candidate of her scum reads (as Town because she would know she’s Town and a lynch elsewhere is always preferable, as scum to save her own neck). Yet she isn’t doing it despite many opportunities to do so.

The only logical reason why she isn’t doing this is because she is protecting Friend.

And Doom has addressed the following post but I think misses the most important point.

I have 0% hope that I'm not somehow getting lynched today. Sorry to be a waste of time to Town, I guess. Is self-hammering allowed? I'd do it right now if possible.

This doesn’t come from a Town perspective. But the most important reason is something Doom hasn’t hit on – Town who are lynched Day 1 get a Vengekill. Town who feels they are going down at least know they still have a chance to catch scum. Thus rolling over and suggesting a self vote (aside from laying down AtE that the current meta of MS eats up like it is candy) means she would be giving up ability to read scum who are pushing her wagon. She’s not even pretending that her lynch has any scum driving it.

But I’d rather lynch Friend Computer given Sesq’s behavior.

Or maybe I just think Revan looks scummier? FC's wagon isn't that big and I was originally triying to redirect votes from my wagon to his. Don't really see this.

[Sesq]

Also, (sorry for doublepost)

VOTE: Revan

It wasn't an independent line before

PEDIT: HAHA havingfitz beat me. Don't worry, it's handled.

The reason I'm not making votes that count is because I keep forgetting it. Forgetfulness and ignorance is a recurring theme over here throughout this game.

As for that early stuff, I've already explained it a million times. I'll answer when someone asks something new.

[Sesq]

Here's a game I was scum in.

Main thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69351

Maifa thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=69349

[Sesq]

As for that early stuff, I've already explained it a million times. I'll answer when someone asks something new.

Just a reminder to everyone

– remember that said explanations haven’t held up to scrutiny and at last posting Sesq had retreated to “I was sure I did it for that reason despite nothing in thread indicating that as a possibility … sue me”.

I know it's a shit excuse, you know a shit excuse, Old Man Jenkins knows it's a shit excuse. I just don't like repeating myself, it gets really annoying.

Here's a game I was scum in.

Main thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69351

Maifa thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=69349

Did I miss someone specifically asking your for this? If I didn’t what is the point of posting it? If I did please reference

Wguerts asked for it before, and I complied, but I wanted to post it again as my play there is very, very different despite being scum.

[Sesq]

Or maybe I just think Revan looks scummier? FC's wagon isn't that big and I was originally triying to redirect votes from my wagon to his. Don't really see this.

FC’s wagon has been established more or less all day and has always been bigger (or equivalent) to Revan’s (even when you have voted Revan and moved off FC).

Why, if FC is a scum read for you and you yourself say you were “trying to direct votes from your own wagon to FC’s”, did you suddenly stop?

And why not vote FC? There are multiple scum in the game. FC looks overwhelmingly more likely to be the Scum Daykiller than Revan based on game state. Yet you insist on trying to fuel a wagon on Revan.

And color me shocked that you (regardless of alignment) don’t see a theory as valid when said theory implicates you as scum … [/off sarcasm]

Did you know that people can...

gasp

- change their minds?

I know. It shocked me too.

[Sesq]

Did you know that people can... gasp- change their minds?

I know. It shocked me too.

What did you change your mind about? FC being scum? That doesn't add up considering you listed him as the other scum suspect with Revan in your last 'read list'.

Every post you make like this where you try to handwave away things as opposed to actually providing an answer brings me more confidence about you and FC as partners.

No, about Revan being scummi

er

. I still think he's a scumread, but less so. I was voting and pushing him for a while, why is this partner theory a thing?

[Sesq]

Page 11:

@sesq, what do you mean when you that you would jump off Friend's wagon when he is L-1? If you're on his wagon, you should think that he is scum. If you are waiting to get off the wagon, it's blatantly a scum move. And you are saying it out loud.

Usually I don't like to be on L-1 wagons unless I'm dead sure they're scum (such as with Revan). I'm not entirely sure on FC. He's basically done a few joke posts and has been entirely absent. Neglect yes, but not necessarily scum. Usually the opposite, in my experience. I don't want to risk lynching someone who may be town.

'another', when was the first time?

The first time was Sesq going into "Woe is me I am getting lynched today" mode with zero to 1 votes when FC had 4 or 5 ...

Don't pretend that hasn't been made abundantly clear.

This is because I forgot about the vote reset and assumed I had 5 (4 from pre-dk and the one after).

@sesq, what do you think of Fitz catchup post?

I have no opinion on it.

362, hey, Sesq, can you explain your read on Superhans?

I don't really have a read on him. I put him there because I usually put people I don't know about in null-town, and after looking over his recent stuff - yeah, total null.

(I'm not putting in full quotes from now on it's too tedious)

But lucca said,

"@sesq, and haven't you said that you never thought that FC was scum, and was only waiting to Friend's wagon to go L-1 to get off of it?"

HAHAHAHAHAAAA I always have said I thought FC was scum, until this very post where I'm kinda like, eh, maybe?

"the thing that makes me pause about Sesq lynch is that there is zero resistance."

Shouldn't that make everyone pause?

Seriously.

There is zero resistance.

[Sesq]

Zero resistance to a lynch is scummy. Also, aren't you resisting by pointing that out?

No, it's actually more of a town tell. If scum has a large wagon, other scum will want to stop them. This hasn't happened at all.

And of course I'm resisting my own wagon, anyone would, town, scum, cult, sk, anyone (except for jester, if that's on mafiascum.)

[Sesq]

I thought you meant from yourself. Superhans has, in fact, been resisting your lynch. I think he's your partner.

It could be a gambit of some sorts. He might be trying to back me so it looks like I have viable partners (and more reason to lynch), and then I flip town and those associations are dropped.

[Sesq]

Yeah. I don't know what I was saying. He definitely have resistance. From a lot of players, actually.

@sesq, strange that you had no opinion on Fitz catchup. He had the same reaction I had to Hawk's death. Shouldn't you be scumreading him?

---

answering to magna on another post

You two have very similar play, he's just less active. I'd put both of you at null, slight scum lean (kinda gut), with fitz a bit more scumlean than you.

[Sesq]

This is because I forgot about the vote reset and assumed I had 5 (4 from pre-dk and the one after).

This doesn’t explain why you claimed you would self-vote if you were Town.

It was me expressing how scummy I looked for an outward angle. I wouldn't actually self-vote, it's fucking pointless unless you're a Jester.

No, it's actually more of a town tell. If scum has a large wagon, other scum will want to stop them. This hasn't happened at all.

If by some circumstance you aren’t Mafia I suggest you go to the Wiki and look up “bussing” because this is all sorts of incorrect.

I know what bussing is, my mafia strategy is to allow myself to bus the hell out of people. However, even with bussing factored in, scum isn't going to just not want a counterwagon of some sorts.

That said, it isn't really relevant, as the last votecount was 4 votes for FC, and 2 for Revan, Superhans and I, each.

Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.

So the clear inference is that FC not having votes for doing “less” than Sesq is idiocy which means he should have votes (ie that behavior is suspicious). Directly conflicts with the above where Sesq says “My experience is that those that neglect the thread are more likely Town”.

Because if people re-evaluate their reads, they MUST be scum. There seems to be a serious problem throughout your post of presupposing I'm scum, and then finding arguments to back that up. Your posts are good ignoring that, but it is an issue. Sometimes you need to pull your head waaaay out (of your reads not your
VOTE:
That said, the following shenanigans involving FC were quite amusing.

Right after Magna points out his prod-dodge, he sticks his head out and is like

I'm sorry I'm not more active.

I tend to forget...

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

This is the least I've seen anyone try at a mafia game ever for all time and eternity. The "Look. I'll do what you want me to do." quote especially just feels really scummy. And him responding to his modvote 12 (TWEEEEELLLVEEE) pages ago with "eeeeh it was just a joke, a gag eh? I just wanted to see..." just- no. Just no. At this point, with these prod-dodges, lack of interaction, excuses, I feel confident placing my vote now, as Revan's wagon seems unfortunately dead.

VOTE: Friend Computer

I should also point out that the karnos vote being a joke itself isn't really super scummy, just kinda pointless, but him trying to answer to that three days later... ugh. I don't know.

[Sesq]

YES MY GUT WAS RIGHT

[Sesq]

Sorry for being rude earlier, Sesq and FC. I was certain you were scum.

I DID look like hard scum though. FC could pass. Don't know why he killed me.