Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[Superhans]

Hello everybody!

[Superhans]

This is going to be a hard time for lurkers, all you pro-activity guys and all.

I've almost established a framework for this game. These interactions are really, really SOUR.

Funny you should mention that... Sorry I haven't posted beyond 'hello everybody', I'm going to try and catch up, but it is difficult rn as I'm busy with w
Exams.
I'll comment a full read list tonight.

[Superhans]

Doom, mind linking the wiki article?

Be as distracting as possible. While people will complain if you make too many wall posts, almost nobody complains if you take up several pages with a silly one-on-one argument that nobody else cares about. This can be done with a buddy or your primary suspect. Use confusing pronouns whenever possible to increase uncertainty, and never let a single point drop. Argue your stance back and forth, getting more obscure each time. If you make reference to an earlier post, state the number but do not give a link. Nobody will admit that they can't follow the argument, they will find it difficult to concentrate both on reading you and pushing their own agenda, and best of all, they can't call you out on anything because you're just a loyal townie doing his best to catch scum.

Is this referring to Lucca? Which player is playing like this?

[Superhans]

...VOTE: Doomfeathers

On a page 2 basis my vote was going to go to either wg or Doom.

Doom got my vote for 14. It’s a suspect post coming on the heels of 9. They are trying to sell two different points of view in too short a time period.

9 says “I am on the ball and am paying attention to the rules” specifically be related to votes being symbolic at that point.

14 on the other hand is peddling both “I’m a newb and don’t get the mechanics” and “I’m not Mafia guys”, the second of which Ultimate picked up on. I’ve seen newer players drop the “I don’t understand the set-up so I’m Town” tell before in other Open set-ups like Jungle Republic so I probably would have voted on that basis alone for early game.

But Doom has enough games on site to understand how the Mafia are going to get the kills they need – mislynches. Basis Mafia101. So the dueling subtext shown of his posts strike me as someone uncomfortable with the early game and looking for footing to get comfortable. The "This is OMGUS" joke is another element I think shows him working to get footing.

Wg would have gotten my vote for 21 but Doom was a stronger vote for this early.

--

I've played nightless before, scum wins only if the town becomes apathetic. Don't spam but don't disappear or lurk either.

Actually Scum wins when they are able to earn Town reads in Nightless games since there is no pressure (or in this case significantly lower pressure due to the 2 Daykills) to have to justify why they are so Town read and still alive. With posts like this which on the surface look Pro-Town but mainly empty of actual helpful content.

--

Meh. Don't like this. You have a point about scum trying to posts that on the surface look Pro-Town but have no helpful content.

I feel like this post is just like this:

It's just you overly analysing things to try and look town, look that you are scumhunting. You can find scum that early. But posting this big explanations of why this is scum and why this is town so early makes me think you are just trying to look like the strong analytic town member, instead of being it.
[...].

How is Magna's level of analysis different to your analysis?

@Revan why are you townreading Lucca?

[Superhans]

Sesq's 15, this was unnecessary, no?

I don't like your playstyle and feel that it is potentially scum motivated (may just be lazy town though). I get the sense from

Wow, I want to play Doom for an hour, get something quick to eat, chat with friends, and now I have the largest wagon on me for doing the same shit as at least 2 other (FC and Revan, perhaps others I forgot or more in the future). Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of. In fact, if we wish to talk about wagons, how about Hawk or Mozamis (of whom has contributed very little, may I add.) This is fucking imbecilic. Anyway, here's your reads, by person:

Mozamis - The wagon hop onto me (with Hawk), them mutually townreading eachother, and overall him not contributing much makes it clear who my vote is going with.
Magna - Normal town responses, it looks like. Null-town.
Hawk - The aforementioned, looks like a possible scumteam with Mozamis. Other posts seem to be going down kind of random trails. It could possibly be a town player who's just kinda disconnected with the game.
wgeurts - Real meaty scumhunting. Strong townread. His vote for me over FC when we are literally on the same level on his reads I'm not taking as anything, it could just as well be FC as I.
Revan - One of those near-nothing posters. A bit more than I remembered, but it's all fluff.
Ultimate Despair - Hasn't done anything. I don't know.
lucca261 - Posts look fine enough, but I have this extremely unshakeable gut feeling this guy is scum, if not Mozamis or Hawk. I'm not voting him for it unless I see anything with my brain.
Superhans - Came in, quoted Donkey Ollie, and left. Absolutely nothing to tell.
Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.
doomfeathers - This one is interesting. There was some weird LAMIST stuff, they voted for me, I have no idea where to place them now. They are outside ranking.
havingfitz - "catching up". No reads yet, obviously.

So with all that I'm indeed going VOTE: Mozamis.

that you are only making the reads

because

you're the biggest wagon, not because you're town motivated. Talking about transparency (@Raven) I would say Sesq is one of the least transparent players right now. These reads aren't exactly easy to follow. You say Magna is producing 'normal (it looks like) town responses' therefore is town.

Your read on Hawk is unbelievably audacious especially considering you're linking her with a possible scum partner!

[Superhans]

VOTE: Revan
Maybe a lil cheeky of me being a lurker until now accusing your of not really contributing enough, but...

i'll unvote when you explain your read lists:

Town: Lucca
Townlean: Magna, wgeurts
Null: Everybody else
Nullscum: Doom

[Superhans]

I saw the death as a pedit. I saw it first and I should have reacted, but I honestly don't have anything to say right now and I really need to go to bed.

[Superhans]

Somebody dies between Superhans' posts, showing that he was online at the time. He doesn't react at all. Does this look suspicious to anyone else?

Ur online too...

[Superhans]

Readlist:

Weak Town Reading Doomfeathers.
I think the wagon on Doom was very surprising, people mistook playstyle with scum play. I don't think that his game mechanic question was scumplay, if anything it is a promotion of clarity. I agree with Wguerts point that his voting is kinda jumpy, but I play like that myself, so I don't think it is necessarily to over-read. His vote on me was unreasonable (not biased at all :p) but I liked that he unvoted once he had reevaluated the situation rather than pushed on unreasonable logic.

NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.

This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.

And I learnt a new technique!
H O W E V E R

Here are other player's interactions with Hawk, in approximately chronological order. Lucca has been excluded because he couldn't have made the kill.

Wgeurts: A few disagreements, a vote, a null-scum read, and then a townread.
Mozamis: Three townreads.
Sesq: Scumreads, associations with mozamis, null-scum read.
Ultimate Despair: Townread.
Friend Computer: Townlean read.
Havingfitz: Townread.
Superhans: Criticism of Sesq's scumread of Hawk.

Which of these is most likely to have been affected by the scum who later killed him?

I really really don't like this post as you're excluding most of Hawks interactions. Have you considered that
1) Your 'who was online' is a sketchy af way of figuring out who made the kill as there is an unknowable amount of delay between the making the NK and the time it takes mod to make it.
2) Scum work as a team and have daytalk so I don't understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player.

[Superhans]

Although it isn't surpring, you ignore yourself from the recent interactions with Hawk.

[Superhans]

I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.

Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!

I will try and find scum now!

Can you also expand upon your scum read on Doom?

[Superhans]

Catching up continued from page 4.

Not sure I like lucca's analysis of MOI's first post. Also....less experienced players can be scum too.

Like Hawk's post 103. His observation on Doom.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Lucca....is your Revan vote just to pressure for more content or do you also have reasons to suspect? Seems like I recall you questioning a few things on Revan earlier in my catchup.

Don't care for Sesq's post 132. A lot of differing opinions from mine.

@FC...why would you consider FOSing someone whose scum hunting seems town to you? (post 133)

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

@ Sesq wrt post 161. Are you saying I am misrepping you?

Near end of page seven. Feeling town vibe from Doom. Not so from Sesq.

...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

I like UD's post 243. Town reading the hydra.

@Revan wrt post 284....almost. Holiday = weekend = RL>Mafia.

I've read up through post 299. I want to look a few more things over before I give my reads and put down my vote. I should be able to get to that early tomorrow. Apologies for the stream of consciousness catch up...the game starting right at the start of a busy 4 day weekend for me did not help. I'll engage more after today.

You're making lots of points, but they're not easy at all to actually understand.

Your reaction to Hawks death is also particularily obnoxious, "...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh" Really? I would rather you not make this comment at all, rather than make it, as it is just making your work more verbose and annoying to read. Someon already mentioned this, but you need to put links in your posts.

[Superhans]

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.
I think you are panicing scum.

VOTE SESQ

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.

Or another way you could look at this, Sesq is town who is scum reading him because hes trying to divert the scum from anaysising the DK. I do however, agree with your principal that focussing too heavily on the DK could be unfruitful, depending on whether the DK was deliberate WIFOM brainfuckeroo or an attempt to further inciminate those on the wagon or an attempt to throw the wagon off of Sesq and onto FC (I don't think this is alikely explanation btw, because it seems like quite a big gambit to take so early in the day).

Personally, I think that "we were on the right track so scum kinda panicked" makes more sense than "this was a well-thought out plan to magically get town distracted"

completely agree, lets press on!

I do agree with this:

why did you think that 39 was in particular town? Do you think Magna's points are illegitimate or incorrect?

god, dont get so pedantic. wgerts is so, so town. if you have ANY experience of this game at all, you know he is.

If Wgert is scum, his playstyle would appear to be play as hard town as possible, make incredibly high effort posts and try and promote the discussion of town conversations. It seems like a veyr labour intensive playstyle that would be infeasible in protecting his scum team. The posts Wguert are producing would be much harder to produce if he was playing as scum.

[Superhans]

Actually I'll go even further. Generically, I would consider it fairly likely that one of the following is true

1) FC or Sesq was the scum dayvig and panicked
2) FC and Sesq were both scum and they both (or perhaps their whole team) collectively panicked

I think that Hawk was a pretty bizarre shot if this was some kind of well thought out, intentional scum strategy. I think that it's exceptionally strange to waste one of two valuable kill shots on a relative newbie who has made only 15 posts, at a time when day 1 was nowhere close to being over (scum get only two free kills, and it is highly likely that at some point during the game, at least one townie will emerge as someone that the scum REALLY want dead but can't easily get mislynched, and there is a pretty decent list of people here who could plausibly slip into that role eventually). The most logical explanation is, rather than this being a wise move, that this was a panicked and ill-thought out reaction to the game state.

Not sure whether that makes me want to wagon Sesq or FC, but I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd want to wagon elsewhere.

-M

I don't agree with this theory that the DK was a reaction to panic. I agree that there was definite intent behind the Hawk kill as the shots were valuable, but it is early D1, and it seems like an unbelievably audacious gambit that the death of Hawk would somehow throw the kill off of the FC wagon. Why would FC or Sesq try and kill Hawk so early in the day when they still have plenty of time to shift the pressure off of themselves without wasting a DK?

[Superhans]

Hawk can you explain your vote on Sesq more in-depth? Thanks.

Scum technique to justify lack of intelligble reads by pretending to be a complete moron.

[Superhans]

(that was supposed to be a rhetorical question, I'm not actually using that as serious basis for a scum case)

[Superhans]

I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.

Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!

I will try and find scum now!

What makes Lucca a 'nice fellow'?
Does Wguert and UD's game-solving also appear genuine to you?

[Superhans]

What makes them garbage?

Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.

[Superhans]

Friend 153

So this reads are pretty bad. Funny that you mention null-scum reading lurkers, as you are kinda lurking.

But I don't actually think Friend is scum, and I'm kinda concerned that scum is trying to wagon him, trying to exploit him for his playstyle. Don't like this.

Superhans 152

Waiting on that readslist.

Revan 156

Why are you town reading me? I feel like I know what are you doing, but I kinda feel like you are going to get lynched for it.

UD 154

I feel like, because of the hydra you might don't want to answer this, but is your read on Revan meta-based? I don't know how you get to this conclusion without meta.

Superhans 172

Do you scumread me? I don't like how all your posts are about me, and you are not voting or openly scumreading me. This is scummy.

Superhans 173[/b]

The Magna post you are referring to was on the start of page 2. My post was on page 4. There is definitely more things to deeply analyse on page 4 than page 2. This is scummy as well. Taking things out of context to try to put pressure me without even voting.

2 posts. NOt all of my posts, also bear in mind i had only made like 4 posts at the time that you'd written this so saying 'all your posts are about me' is a way to distort my content.

I'm asking questions about your playstyle because I don't like how you've been playing and I admit that reading back my questions were slightly lame (I struggled to know where to start as there was an intimidatingly large amount of content to work through) I thought that your interactions had appeared a little strange and was asking you to elaborat.

This is going to be a hard time for lurkers, all you pro-activity guys and all.

I've almost established a framework for this game. These interactions are really, really SOUR.

I was definitely sour. Reading, analysing and making those walls was taking a toll on my will to live.

@Lucca how much do you value transparency in town on a scale from 1-10?

I personally rank it at a solid 7.

Depends on the setup and the situation. I would say a 5. Why do you ask?

What the fuck. Why kill Hawk?

Reading right now.

These posts are LAMIST af.

You reach a weird conclusion on Hawk and don't explain

why

you think it is random. Almost like you are dismissing any town attempt to genuinely read deeper into it.

Honestly, too tired to post and analyse right now.

Will post by the morning.

By now, the Hawk kill seems random. There was not anything about his kill that would make anyone townier or scummier. I think that maybe we were going on the right track, and so, they killed Hawk to reset the lynches and try to put paranoia on us.

[Superhans]

unsure about the Sesq wagon, I liked her response to my question, seems genuine. I think her indignation is a flavour rather than a defense mechanism. really don't have a clue about FC. Why would you vote the moderator if you know you're a major scum read?

@FamilyComputer, how much experience have you had playing as a town and how much experience have you had playing as scum?

[Superhans]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?

[Superhans]

After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).

At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".

But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."

VOTE: Sesq

I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.

I'm already voting Regan...

[Superhans]

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

What type of question is this?

FC's ISO is bare. I don't think voting him will change this.

This is the best place for my vote to be.

VOTE: Superhans

Trying to determine if he is a noob

[Superhans]

Although I shouldn't answer for Doom, sorry.

RU voting me because I'm voting you? That's how this feels to me.

[Superhans]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?

If Doom genuinely didn't understand the game mechanics would you rather he didn't ask?
Yes I am. I have not read past this post yet by the way, so yeah.

[Superhans]

Oh shit messed up that quote,
@sesq if Doom genuinely didn't understand the game mechanics would you rather he didn't ask?

[Superhans]

After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).

At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".

But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."

VOTE: Sesq

I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.

I'm already voting Regan...

Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.

[Superhans]

Idk about seqsq, Magna. I'm gut slight townreading him because I think people are confusing his flavour with scum play. She has admitted that her behaviour is inspired by her laziness which I think is more likely than not, true.

I would rather have FC/Revan lynched today.

[Superhans]

I'm already voting Regan...

When I posted that I had referenced the Mod’s last Vote-Count and see you not listed as voting. The most recent vote count refutes that point. Consider it an error on my part.

Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.

If it was obviously ridiculous you’d have pointed out what specifically was ridiculous. Instead you just handwave it. And point of fact in that post I was seeing relational tells to Sesq not FC (in fact I had assessed your behavior as not likely with Friend as scum given how bad you would look). Thus the sentence “some pretty strong relational ties to

Sesq

”.

Was that misrepresentation accidental on your part? And why, if scum reading you is OK, do you immediately try to say me doing so is “shoddy play”?

Ah sorry, I made a mistake and I take back calling what you said shoddy, I didn't read what you had written properly.

[Superhans]

Mod...does the mozamis vote on Sesq in Post 288 not meet your voting criteria?

Sesq...your last two votes (on mozamis and Revan) have not counted because you did not put them on unique lines like you have already acknowledged being told by the mod. Why do you keep making votes that do not count?

Have you not noticed that your vote is still on FC? Do you still suspect FC?

Also...wrt Post 301...I think you messed up your reply to my question. It looks like you are saying you were misrepping me. FFS...can you pay attention to what you post? You say here that you intended to vote Doom for LAMIST. Your initial vote for Doom came immediately after his LAMIST post but you only mention that your vote on him is because he was shading you (I assume for the cat comment he made about you). Which seemed pretty RVS-ish. All you say when you make your vote on Doom official is that you are making your earlier vote official. No mention of LAMIST. Even when MOI asks you about it. You only mention LAMIST slightly in your Post 130 and no mention of it being why you are voting Doom...until you accuse me of misrepping you on it.

@MOI

...thank you for the [302=post]posting tutorial[::post//}. I was just a bit more focused on getting caught up than making things pretty. It's not the norm for me.

@Superhans....what do you mean with the scum works as a team comment when you say you do not understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player? Whether the kill was made on behalf of the day vigger or one of the goons makes no difference. The fact is Hawk was killed. If there is a way of determining who might have been threatened by Hawk's existence that could point to someone...ANYONE...on the scum team.

@Superhans....if you don't understand my posts ask a question. My catch up was me commenting on things I saw as I saw them. The Hawk kill came as a surprise to me when I saw it. Not sure how my reaction is obnoxious. Also...do you consider obnoxious scummy? And I could care less if you find me verbose or annoying to read. Do you find those traits scummy or are you just doing what you accuse me of?

@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.

As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.

@Revan....I've made two catch up posts where I am making observations. Other than stating a few players I think are town...what fence sitting do you see me doing? Also...consider me caught up. Pressure away. And could you please explain why you have me in your two out of three scum pool? Make that two of four....or is it three of four????

@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?

Here's where I am seeing people att:
Town leaning - Magna, UD,
Slightly less town leaning - wgeurts, lucca
Need to look over more - Superhans
Suspect a little - Doom and ....................... mozamis
Suspect a lot - Sesq, FC, Revan

VOTE: Friendly Computer

Revan would be my next choice. Sesq gets a bit of a bye today from me for at least being somewhat active.

P.edit...I see others have since commented on the voting issues but I'll keep my comments despite it.

Doomfeather is analysing the interactions of players who were online at the time with Hawk, and I was pointing out that this is not the way we should be looking at it. I think we're agreeing on this one, Hawks interaction could have been with anyone in the scum team.

Instead of asking questions, you could just clarify it a bit more int he first place. I don't find your behaviour scummy and like the type of questions you're pushing on players such as me and Doom, as it suggest you are trying to further discussion / try and solve the game.

not sure about Hawks death, but I'm unsure what would have triggered the scum to assume she would be a threat to them, consdiering she had very little content. Most simple explanation would be Sesq, but because this is so simple, I think it very very unlikely to actually be the case. If Hawk was killed over her push on Sesq, it is likely that this actually means Sesq is

less

likely to be scum? if that makes sense?



@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

[Superhans]

seems to be some confusion over my votes.
its very clear - i ahve only voted Sesq this game.
Once before the DK, and once after.
So I dont know why people are confused, but there it is.
And for once i may actually have caught scum!

If Sesq flips scum who would you suspect?
If Sesq flips town who would you suspect?

[Superhans]

I skimmed your case, sorry, being lazy
having gone back over it, my feeling is that you are probably on the right track.
E.g.:

However there is scum motivation to appear like scum-hunting while not wanting to antagonize the person you effectively FOS.

is a good point. His "nullscum read" of Superhand seemed like someone trying to put down some sort of read without - as you say - making waves.
All in all, he does seem very blendy.
That's kinda my problem with your case though, and its not really your fault, because he is so blendy. And thus, there isnt THAT much of a case to go on ATM.
So while my gut is telling me he could be scum (his posts are remarkably content free), I'm more convinced of Sesq, simply because I feel he has actually given himself away.
And i wasn't aware who FC was vtoing for, which you may believe or not, as you wish. *alec guinness voice*

How has Sesq given himself away? Maybe this is my fault for not really engaging with the game early on, but for the sake of simplicity give me a breakdown of your scum read on him.

[Superhans]

@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

D'huh? Why are you asking yourself questions?

that was in response to Havingfitz.

[Superhans]

typo.

[Superhans]

Mod...does the mozamis vote on Sesq in Post 288 not meet your voting criteria?

Sesq...your last two votes (on mozamis and Revan) have not counted because you did not put them on unique lines like you have already acknowledged being told by the mod. Why do you keep making votes that do not count?

Have you not noticed that your vote is still on FC? Do you still suspect FC?

Also...wrt Post 301...I think you messed up your reply to my question. It looks like you are saying you were misrepping me. FFS...can you pay attention to what you post? You say here that you intended to vote Doom for LAMIST. Your initial vote for Doom came immediately after his LAMIST post but you only mention that your vote on him is because he was shading you (I assume for the cat comment he made about you). Which seemed pretty RVS-ish. All you say when you make your vote on Doom official is that you are making your earlier vote official. No mention of LAMIST. Even when MOI asks you about it. You only mention LAMIST slightly in your Post 130 and no mention of it being why you are voting Doom...until you accuse me of misrepping you on it.

@MOI

...thank you for the [302=post]posting tutorial[::post//}. I was just a bit more focused on getting caught up than making things pretty. It's not the norm for me.

1)
@Superhans....what do you mean with the scum works as a team comment when you say you do not understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player? Whether the kill was made on behalf of the day vigger or one of the goons makes no difference. The fact is Hawk was killed. If there is a way of determining who might have been threatened by Hawk's existence that could point to someone...ANYONE...on the scum team.

2)
@Superhans....if you don't understand my posts ask a question. My catch up was me commenting on things I saw as I saw them. The Hawk kill came as a surprise to me when I saw it. Not sure how my reaction is obnoxious. Also...do you consider obnoxious scummy? And I could care less if you find me verbose or annoying to read. Do you find those traits scummy or are you just doing what you accuse me of?

3)
@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.

As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.

@Revan....I've made two catch up posts where I am making observations. Other than stating a few players I think are town...what fence sitting do you see me doing? Also...consider me caught up. Pressure away. And could you please explain why you have me in your two out of three scum pool? Make that two of four....or is it three of four????

@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?

Here's where I am seeing people att:
Town leaning - Magna, UD,
Slightly less town leaning - wgeurts, lucca
Need to look over more - Superhans
Suspect a little - Doom and ....................... mozamis
Suspect a lot - Sesq, FC, Revan

VOTE: Friendly Computer

Revan would be my next choice. Sesq gets a bit of a bye today from me for at least being somewhat active.

P.edit...I see others have since commented on the voting issues but I'll keep my comments despite it.

1)
Doomfeather is analysing the interactions of players who were online at the time with Hawk, and I was pointing out that this is not the way we should be looking at it. I think we're agreeing on this one, Hawks interaction could have been with anyone in the scum team.

2)
Instead of asking questions, you could just clarify it a bit more int he first place. I don't find your behaviour scummy and like the type of questions you're pushing on players such as me and Doom, as it suggest you are trying to further discussion / try and solve the game.

3)
not sure about Hawks death, but I'm unsure what would have triggered the scum to assume she would be a threat to them, consdiering she had very little content. Most simple explanation would be Sesq, but because this is so simple, I think it very very unlikely to actually be the case. If Hawk was killed over her push on Sesq, it is likely that this actually means Sesq is

less

likely to be scum? if that makes sense?

[Superhans]

Slight scum read on Lucca as a response to his response to Hawks death, being 'wtf' and 'random' which seems like a dismissal of an attempt to consider motivation behind the kill.

[Superhans]

Super answer my question.

Well I have absolutely no idea where you're getting 'Lucca is a nice fellow' from, so I thought perhaps you could actually explain what you mean.

[Superhans]

W A S T E M A N

I ask you two questions to understand where the fuck your reads from Lucca come from. You don't bother actually answering them, instead you grill me for asking them.. what?

You say that Lucca's reads are genuine, so I pick two other players whose reads are relatively genuine, and see how you value Lucca's reads relative to theirs.

[Superhans]

How would your game solving benefit from knowing how I judge people's reads?

Answer my questions.

[Superhans]

@UD how are you reading Wguert?

I'm can see where Mix is coming from, Wguerts behaviour is try hard town.

[Superhans]

Moz not mix bloody autocorrect

[Superhans]

After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).

At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".

But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."

VOTE: Sesq

I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.

I'm already voting Regan...

Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.

@Doom and Magna,
I misinterpretted what Magna had written, thought that he was accusing me of being scum with FC and Sesq for fence sitting on their wagons.

[Superhans]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

if you plan to lynch sesq first, how will we know if fc is scum?
Out of FC and Sesq, I would want to lynch FC first, he is posting less, and his posts are kinda nonsense (e.g. voting mod etc). I like the train of thought in Sesq's posts and I think it would be hugely beneficial to keep her alive even if she is scum (if you get what i mean).

[Superhans]

Moz can you explain your read on Sesq
392
im not trying to throw shade or anything, just would like to hear a simplified case on Sesq.

[Superhans]

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

This is scum.

Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.

VOTE: Sesq

hmm seems like a bit of an overreaction to what I think is equally likely to be town play. I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.

[Superhans]

There's at least 1 scum in {havingfitz, Sesq, Superhans}

why is there at least one scum in this group, and why is hans in particular the most vote-worthy?
-M

@Revan also answer this question.

[Superhans]

if Doom thinks Sesq and FC are scum, lynching FC would be a much much better option that lynching Sesq based on the type of content that Sesq produces.

[Superhans]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

lynch Sesq first...

[Superhans]

not too late for FC to request a replacement.

FC you up for this, or is your schedule gonna clearup soon?

[Superhans]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

lynch Sesq first...

Lynching Sesq first if FC flips scum inherently means FC has already been lynched.

Pretty straightforward logic. Especially in light of this whole back and forth starting with Doom thinking you were scum with FC and Sesq. His response to you is "Yeah, you being scum with them isn't certain. Let's lynch Sesq first after FC."

Context reading is key. Trying to decide if you are purposefully misreading in another (fruitless) attempt to derail the FC lynch.

'another', when was the first time?

Also can you stop relentlessly shitting on me; pressure is good, but accusing my poor play of being a scum strategy is kinda hurtful. Don't want to play a noob card, but im not an alt, and i really havent been playing for that long.

[Superhans]

hurtful is the wrong word, more frustrating that hurtful.

[Superhans]

come on, lets lynch sesq. for once i am confident about a scum read. fc tomorrow.
also, FC has a whiff of "the - could - be -scum-but could-just be-lurker", as in, not as definite.

Not unless you can give me a compelling reason why everything I've said on timing of the Daykill and my case for Sesq trying to derail the FC lynch indicates FC as the likely Daykill Mafia is wrong.

Compelling reason? maybe not, but i can think of a few possible, but not provable reasons:

Kill wasn't panic reaction and was designed to incriminate FC? Maybe you're mafia if this is the case? I think your explanation is more likely, but i'll be thinking about this is FC flips town.

[Superhans]

'another', when was the first time?

The first time was Sesq going into "Woe is me I am getting lynched today" mode with zero to 1 votes when FC had 4 or 5 ...

Don't pretend that hasn't been made abundantly clear.

wtf has this got to do with me though?

[Superhans]

Kill wasn't panic reaction and was designed to incriminate FC? Maybe you're mafia if this is the case? I think your explanation is more likely, but i'll be thinking about this is FC flips town.

Well let's see ...

If FC is Town being incriminated by that kill and being mislynched FC-Town gets a Vengekill to take out scum pushing his lynch. So just bringing up the possibility of it being a veteran frame game job means it is sub-optimal play for said veterans. Not to mention that Friend was already under fire for his play so the concept of someone killing Hawk to "frame" him is pretty obtuse given there really was no need for it. High risk low to non-existent reward IMO.

But at least it is a theory being presented from you.

Besides Revan who is scum Hans? Despite you saying "FC is a better lynch than Sesq" you've steadfastly not commited to FC as actual scum. I'd like enough scum reads from you to fill out the scum-team even if those reads are not team-reads.

I scum read FC mid/late D1, and don't think that scum would necessarily have been on the wagon as pushing him, and Sesq, didn't really require that much effort. My prime D1 scum read was on Revan, but I also had scum reads on Lucca and FC.
I'll need to reread D1 to see if any of my reads have changed with knowledge that Sesq and FC are town.

[Superhans]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

if you plan to lynch sesq first, how will we know if fc is scum?
Out of FC and Sesq, I would want to lynch FC first, he is posting less, and his posts are kinda nonsense (e.g. voting mod etc). I like the train of thought in Sesq's posts and I think it would be hugely beneficial to keep her alive even if she is scum (if you get what i mean).

First after FC, I meant.

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

This is scum.

Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.

VOTE: Sesq

hmm seems like a bit of an overreaction to what I think is equally likely to be town play. I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.

Yeah, no. I don't care if it was made by the most townie-looking person in the game; THIS POST IS SCUM. And I have read the context to put it in perspective; it just got scummier.

Sesq is scummier than Friend anyway.

exactly. magna and co, shift your ARSES on to sesq wagon.

Sesq is scum, but we think FC might be the shooter. Care to lynch FC today and Sesq tomorrow?

Would TownDoomfeather or ScumDoomfeather be this confident in FC and Sesq, and also this completely wrong?

[Superhans]

[...]
This is going to suck if Magna is somehow scum.
[...]

Would it suck (as much) if Wguert is scum?

[Superhans]

My Superhans vote was because I'm not townreading him.

The Sesq flip does strengthen my read on him, because it narrows down my lynchpool.

Was this a response to HavingFitz (is Fitz okay?)

Mod...when you post your vote counts could you add a line for those not voting?

I knew there was a player not on any EOD1 wagons but couldn't remember who (it was FC btw).

Sucks that FC was town. Glad he took out lynchbait Sesq though. But sucks that Sesq was town. (you said "butt sucks"..hehe...hehe -Beavis)

As for D2...I lean towards there not being a lot of scum support for the FC lynch. He was a weak lurky player who had good points made against him. The same with Sesq. So while it sucks they were both town...at least we got rid of some of the low hanging fruit. Point being though...I do not think scum would have had to put a lot of effort into support FC's lynch. I could see there 0-1 on the mislynch. I.e. 2-3 off the mislynch.

All this off the top of my head so I want to go back over D1 to see where I want my vote to go today.

And as usual...my weekend posting will be limited so it might be tomorrow or Monday before I get a chance to apply a closer look.

p.edit.

Revan...can you give some reasoning too for your Superhans vote? Do the two town flips effect your read on him at all?

Also...Superhans....would you mind if I just called you Hans?

I think Fitz wanted like actual reasons, not just your tunnel vision. You also didn't give any valid reasoning when you voted me D1.

[Superhans]

@Havingfitz,

Any of these titles are acceptable:

Superhans,
Hans,
SH,
SuperHands,
or FatherSpliffmas

[Superhans]

[...]
This is going to suck if Magna is somehow scum.
[...]

Would it suck (as much) if Wguert is scum?

This is
@Doom btw

[Superhans]

UNVOTE

Looking at his ISO,
Superhans look scummier than Fitz. I mean, Fitz could just be scum trying harder than Superhans.
But superhans ISO is eally weak. Not many reads and a lot of fluffy, theory bollocks.

VOTE SUPERHANS

Basically I am up for lynching revan or superhans.
I'm unsure about the last scum. Could be Fitz but his ISO is quite strong...

ISO Revan and you'll want to swap your vote. Revans ISO is 100% fluff.

[Superhans]

Also y is Doom now guaranteed town?

[Superhans]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

[Superhans]

Ok this is what I meant. The upshit is that Hans is scum.
Because:
If Hans is town, and Rev is town, why dont scum quick lynch?
If Hans is town, and Rev is scum, why dont scum put him at L-1?
Answer: Hans is scum.

dont rate this logic at all. I barely understand it either, is 'him' me in this analogy?

[Superhans]

I mean, look at how this wagon is failing to gain momentum.
Almost certainly because scum are pissing themselves about either hammering (if Rev is town), or putting Hans at L-1 (if Rev scum)
Although, looking at that, in this instance you would think scum might just all pile on for the quick lynch? (If rev was town).
To me it seems likely that Rev is scum and the two remaining scum dont want to leave themselves hanging in the wind at L-1.

which wagon is failing to gain momentum, i assume you mean my wagon (?)

Also i mean your point about scum wanting to pile on for a quick lynch is kinda obvious to understand why scum wouldn't want to do that.

[Superhans]

[...]
I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your immediate agreement with many of my posts (that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

How do you think town should play, MOI,
How do you think town should play, Fitz

[Superhans]

@Mozamis,
What do you think about Wguert's read on Doomfeather a few pages back:

jeez...a lot to catch up on...almost all of it probably town on town bollocks as always...
i had a brief skim ealrier, and hawk looked SOOOOOOOOO TOWN.
So that's one down.

Eh, never mind. On second ISO, he doesn't look so scummy. I still disagree with avoiding content and judgments early on, though.

UNVOTE: Hawk

I honestly don't feel like we are out of RVS... all of this content you guys think is here feels forced and easily could be fluff. Like I said Null feels all around. Plus I like engaging people rather than just googling it. Do you think Revan voted me out of RVS? I don't think so. If he did he better speak now. Ignore shit that doesn't partake to the game if it's one damn post if it bothers you that much.

Yes, we are out of RVS. We have been for a while now. Once someone votes someone else for a good reason rather than just at random, RVS ends. And I was not saying that you were playing poorly, but that your post had what I saw as likely scum motivation. Why should I ignore it?

Doom, figuring out scum's best play is what town is meant to do. Like chess, you should always be predicting what they're going to do. Considering what's town and scum are likely to do, and reading posts to see which motivation makes more sense, is what we call scum-hunting. It's very hard to catch scum if you don't spend time thinking about what scum do, they're not going to hand themselves over on a platter. Me posting on it means everyone can take it into consideration. It's also not so that I've only posted game theory, you're leaving part of my posts untouched.

Unlike chess, I see here a difference between best play and likely play; however, I can see how predicting scum's best play would be a valid strategy, though naming it so they can avoid it seems a little odd.

UNVOTE: wgeurts

Also, hell yes we should form a town bloc, that's literally what we should be aiming for. Right now though? Definitely not, and I've never said so. That happens later game, once reads are more established, people have flipped, and one or two scum shots have gone off. How is this suspicious? You can't just call things suspicious without explaining why.

Thank you for clarifying that we're waiting until later. I have problems with limitations on who I vote for without reasons I see as good.

A. That's a stretch as really nobody's going to be distracted by a side-discussion about someone's username. Thus no time is wasted. Scum know this if they're decent at least.

It could clog up the thread if done right. I read an article about that.

B. Why would scum do that so early on? Stalling and redirecting attention is best done mid-late day when the deadline draws near or a scum-partner is in danger. Neither of those conditions have been met yet.

Thank you for explaining this; I didn't know.

C. It is still RVS, notice how people don't have firm reads and are randomly voting?

"Without firm reads" is far different from "randomly". You are voting me for a reason, no?

VOTE: Hawk

Alright doom is town, and you'll have to lynch me before I tolerate someone going after him.

[Superhans]

is this the same reason you town read Doom in post 98?

[Superhans]

Also has anything dooms done since page 98 (350+ posts back) influenced your read on him?

[Superhans]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

If I'm going to purposely act scummy, I don't want people thinking it was by accident.

i buy this to be honest. Like i dont think mispelling peoples names is the right way to go about justifying a reaction test; i think if it was a good reaction test you wouldn't need to have mispelled a name to prove it was a reaction test. However, i think your heart was in the right place.

[Superhans]

(is Fitz okay?)

Sure.

lol only just caught that

[Superhans]

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

[Superhans]

I don't remember posting more than one reaction test. Hm.

I misspoke. Either I was confusing early game gambits from a different game or I was thinking about your "LAMIST" post on page one. Which was not a gambit. Disregard.

In my view, wgeurts and MagnaofIllusion are like the town leaders. They appear to be more experienced by their play, and are the main scumhunters. It's hard to explain fully. It's similar to the "town by activity" tell, but moreso.

So for no solid alignment indicative reason. Ok.

It sure seems that you put a lot of thought into figuring out whether people would think your post was scummy.

I think about what I post. If I cared whether people thought a comment I made would seem scummy...I wouldn't make the comment to begin with. I

was

curious if anyone would.

I breadcrumbed.

That's as bad a breadcrumb as I have ever seen. No...it is the worst I've seen.

------------------------------------------------

Curious...were there any others you noticed potentially benefitting from the Hawk dayvig?

First off why is it curious? Second – why didn’t you look for yourself?

It isn't curious, I was curious. I didn't look myself because I was reading on my phone at the time and didn't feel like that hassle. You said Moz and wgeurts were the "strongest candidates" which made it seem like there were other...less strong candidates. Which was where my curiosity was.

Do you, MOI, put a lot of credence in well-known standard tells?

Where do you see that I’m putting “a lot of credence” in the tell?

And the fact that the tell is well known doesn’t make it something to be immediately dismissed. If it wasn’t something viable it would never have gotten to the well known stage in the first place.

I didn't say you

were

putting a lot of credence in standard tells...I was asking you

if

you did.

I mean...I love being townread as much as the next person but if you are going to call someone out for thinking you were town (i.e. me)...why not question everyone who does so?

I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your

immediate agreement with many of my posts

(that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

The "immediate" was a single catch up that referred to two (

many?

) of your posts. I think your buddy meter has a hair trigger. It feels like you are trying to shade events that have no reason to be shaded. I'm not going to look but I would be surprised if in any of our past games I did not agt some point agree with something you may have said.

-----------------------------------------------

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

How do you think town should play, MOI,
How do you think town should play, Fitz

I don't see the point in these questions. The first one requires effort I see no return on and the second is just...worthless.

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

no.

No value in explicitly stating the difference in your idea of what town play should be?
You being serious right now?

[Superhans]

Ok this is what I meant. The upshit is that Hans is scum.
Because:
If Hans is town, and Rev is town, why dont scum quick lynch?
If Hans is town, and Rev is scum, why dont scum put him at L-1?
Answer: Hans is scum.

Can you explain more simply y I am scum or take your filthy little vote off of me.

[Superhans]

Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of a cunt, I'm coming off of a caffeine addiction so kinda overly emotional.

[Superhans]

Still want to rejustify your vote on me because I'm don't fully understand the reasoning.

[Superhans]

No value in explicitly stating the difference in your idea of what town play should be?
You being serious right now?

Correct x 2.
I'll have a go for you though and please tell me how it helps you in this game.

My idea of what town play should be - town should be as transparent, honest and consistent as possible and try their best to find/lynch scum.

helps cos i'll be able to see if you're playing how you say you want people to play when you're scum. also im more interested to know the differences in your town play with MOI's townplay.

[Superhans]

@Revan

– Please remind me of your read on Moz.

--

Can you explain more simply y I am scum or take your filthy little vote off of me.

Why is this post written in a manner that addresses Moz as Town? If you think Moz is voting you for bad reasons why is there not a little bit of thought that Moz might be scum?

--

you being a twat?

No, pointing out the obvious – when you are supposedly scum reading someone and yet then are making points that are 100% predicated on them being Town to support your position it means there is a reasonable chance that you aren’t Town actually looking for scum but scum trying to look like they are scum-hunting.

So my vote stays and I hope others join me.

--

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

Actually I looked back over our past games and have to retract my suspicion of Having on that account. My recollection apparently was incorrect as I can’t find any evidence of us going head to head as Town in the past. In fact I found several Town Having Town MoI games where his posting regarding myself is pretty reminiscent of his posting here.

So he’s no longer a suspect for me given my memory of our past was way off.

--

It isn't curious, I was curious. I didn't look myself because I was reading on my phone at the time and didn't feel like that hassle. You said Moz and wgeurts were the "strongest candidates" which made it seem like there were other...less strong candidates. Which was where my curiosity was.

Um the other candidates were FC and Sesq who have both subsequently flipped Town. Which is why you not going back to look at Hawk’s ISO (which is criminally short) was troubling to me.

The "immediate" was a single catch up that referred to two (many?) of your posts. I think your buddy meter has a hair trigger. It feels like you are trying to shade events that have no reason to be shaded. I'm not going to look but I would be surprised if in any of our past games I did not agt some point agree with something you may have said.

I fully admit that that read was based on my faulty historical recollection so yeah I’ve fully withdrawn you suspicion of you on that end.

If I gave the impression that I thought Moz was town for posting what she posted I want u to know that that is not the case.

Waiting for her to respond before I elaborate.

[Superhans]

Although that may be a while cos this game is seriously slowed down.

[Superhans]

Ot

Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of a cunt, I'm coming off of a caffeine addiction so kinda overly emotional.

Oh i feel for you! I gave up caffeine for 3 years, it was weird shit near the beginning!
Got to say going back on it was gthe biggest buzz ever lol

And thanks for the ATe

Other peoples thoughts on Hans?
And Magna i Guess. It's hard not to OMGUS. I'm hoping he is misguided, "super lawyer" town. Think he probably still is.
If he is scum, we are in trouble.

dont think you've properly re-justified your vote on me btw. What specifically did i do that you find scummy, i know other players have pointed stuff out, but i want you to use ur own words not just reference stuff.

Caffeines a bitch. Like i used to take caffeine as tea once a week, then as coffee a few times a week but cheaper to just use tablets, then next thing I know I'm taking ~500mg multiple times a week. Fortunately I've identified that this is unsustainable relatively early on, and after a serious tolerance break, I think i can use it responsibly if I just limit myself.

[Superhans]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=750

In Revans defense he is VLA in his other ongoing game so I.dont think it's AI.

[Superhans]

He didn't provide analysis when he was active and scumcusing me so I'm skeptical that his analysis will ever come.

[Superhans]

What even is a framework?

[Superhans]

@Mozamis if Revan flips.scum who is his partner?

[Superhans]

Looking at Revan/mozamis

- Junko

Seen anything?

[Superhans]

Ot

Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of a cunt, I'm coming off of a caffeine addiction so kinda overly emotional.

Oh i feel for you! I gave up caffeine for 3 years, it was weird shit near the beginning!
Got to say going back on it was gthe biggest buzz ever lol

And thanks for the ATe

Other peoples thoughts on Hans?
And Magna i Guess. It's hard not to OMGUS. I'm hoping he is misguided, "super lawyer" town. Think he probably still is.
If he is scum, we are in trouble.

Think Moi is being transparent. Easiest player to read. Like.the pressure he's got on u.

[Superhans]

is this the same reason you town read Doom in post 98?

[Superhans]

@moz

[Superhans]

Open 669-

Spoiler: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem is an open setup designed by Tragedy.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia 2-Shot Day Goon
9 Vanilla Townies

This setup is Nightless.

The Mafia 2-Shot Day Goon may shoot only once per game day.

The vote count resets when a Mafia daykill goes through.

A Townie who has been lynched on Day 1 may choose to act as a Vengeful Townie and take someone else down with him/her. This applies only on Day 1.

The mafia may discuss in their private topic during the day.

Standard Role PMs

Mafia Goon

You are a Mafia Member, Aligned with the Mafia.
Your allies are ??? (Mafia Member) & ??? (Mafia Two-Shot Daykill Member). You may communicate with them HERE.
You win when the number of Mafia Members equals the amount of Citizens.

Mafia Two-Shot Day Goon

You are a Mafia Two-Shot Daykill Member, Aligned with the Mafia.
Your allies are ??? (Mafia Member) & ??? (Mafia Member). You may communicate with them HERE.
During each day, you may choose to kill someone, by PMing the moderator. You only have 2 shots to use, so use them wisely.
You win when the number of Mafia Members equals the amount of Citizens.

Townie

You are a Citizen, Aligned with the Town.
If you are voted out on the first day, you may take someone else down with you.
You win when you manage to eliminate every single member of the Mafia.[/spoiler]

LIVING PLAYERS

mozamis
MagnaofIllusion
wgeurts
Revan
Ultimate Despair
lucca261
Superhans
doomfeathers
havingfitz

LINKS

Day 1: Post #25
First Blood: Post #175
Day 2: Post #497

Spoiler: dead

Hawk,

Townie

Friend Computer,

Townie

Sesq,

Townie

[/spoiler]

Moz I'm trying to figure out if ur scum. Answer my questions and stop being so defeatest. If ur town and dont bother ofc you'll always get lynched D2.

[Superhans]

Wth is that quote for Hans?

Not sure why moz is being defeatist.
Revan v/la seems convenient given his already lack of content.

Quote is a glitch that sometimes happens when I use my phone. Ur comment about my avatar is unnecessary, why am i a doofy head?

Say it to my large green pickle face.

[Superhans]

Wth is that quote for Hans?

Not sure why moz is being defeatist.
Revan v/la seems convenient given his already lack of content.

He's got exams omg.

[Superhans]

U got any reads that aren't trash
@Fitz?

[Superhans]

Wth is that quote for Hans?

Not sure why moz is being defeatist.
Revan v/la seems convenient given his already lack of content.

He's got exams omg.

Want to add that this is also a really easy comment to make and I see this is fluff posting.
Do you scum read Revan? If so y?

[Superhans]

IV got Moz as suspect scum because I feel herreads are not genuine at all, and I think she may have deliberately chosen to evade multiple questions towards her which fits with her being scum.

Also I don't like her push on me but don't want to make my read OMGUS so won't elaborate.

[Superhans]

any chance of people playing this game? Or is it just up to me, ultimate, hans and magna?
COME ON WAKE UP TOWN

I do rate this comment though.
+1

[Superhans]

@MOD: I'll be V/LA until 10:00 CST tomorrow.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Moz

[Superhans]

@ Magna - Hans partner? I've given my townblock numerous times. So i guess its anyone not in that. Was thinking Rev, but he was looking better.
I dont know is the short answer, but in the end i could prob vote for anyone not in my townblock.

U do realise I'm pushing for Revans lynching. Unless u think we're doing scum theatre in which case I'd love to know why.

[Superhans]

Lol sorry MOI, I think Moz's latest posts are sketchy, don't like her push on me earlier today either.

[Superhans]

For the record I still think Revan is scum, but it's a wastr to keep a vote on a VLA player.

[Superhans]

@ Magna - Hans partner? I've given my townblock numerous times. So i guess its anyone not in that. Was thinking Rev, but he was looking better.
I dont know is the short answer, but in the end i could prob vote for anyone not in my townblock.

+1 MOI's where the fuck does ur town read on Revan come from?

[Superhans]

For the record I still think Revan is scum, but it's a wastr to keep a vote on a VLA player.

It is only a waste to vote a player you think is scum while they are V/LA if you aren't getting traction on a wagon from other players. V/LA is not some magical shield wiping away the rest of their play.

He can't defend himself though... Moz can. I'm confident that Revans scum, absolutely, but I'd rather lynch him when he's active.

[Superhans]

Is Lucca VLA too?

[Superhans]

Hmm I thought it was against site rules to VLA tactically?

Nevertheless thats a point I hadn't considered.

[Superhans]

Hard to coordinate with partner and avoid dissonance since we're both busy, but we both want to get Revan. I'm fine with doing it while he's inactive.

- Junko

You haven't commented on the upcoming Mozagon that has popped up, which I find odd.considering your suspicion of her.

Also if u do want to lynch Revan now and aren't feeling the Moz wagon, why not place a vote on Revan? You've avoided committing yourself to either wagon.

[Superhans]

MOIs suspicion that he'll get lynched VLA is rather silly considering up until this point he's been probably the biggest town read. Just looking at Doomfeather trying shows how implausible it is.

[Superhans]

(@Doom I know it was a reaction test)

[Superhans]

Moz is L2 btw, so be careful you don't accidentally pull a UD and accidentally lynch.

[Superhans]

In case I suddenly die while on V/LA –

Lynch Moz. If they flip scum then UD is almost assuredly a partner. But my death via Daykill means the Moz slot has to be solved BEFORE LYLO and that would be today's lynch.

Lucca and Superhans are very likely Town in that circumstance so don’t lynch them unless you get to a 3 person LYLO and then really examine their posting the whole game before commiting to a scum read there.

Aside of Moz and UD I’d place approximate weight of other scum with Moz as follows …

Revan > Wgeurts / Doom > Having but there isn’t a ton of difference between the tiers there at this stage.

Now if Moz is somehow Town then all bets on my reads are off and I can't help you there.

You've forgotten someone...

[Superhans]

@UD if Moz flips:
Scum, who is the partner?
Town, who is the partner?

[Superhans]

My quick readlist, now caught up:

TOWN
--- Magna
--- Wgeurts
--- Fitz
--- Revan
--- Doom
--- Superhans/Mozamis
--- UD
SCUM

Would vote UD, Superhans or Mozamis today. The similar spot for Hans or Mozamis is because I think one of them is probably scum, but I'm not sure I can see them being scum together.

Strange that at this point in the game we couldn't be scum together? Care to explain why.

[Superhans]

Page 25

@mozamis, 614: look at this. what's with the defeatist attitude? you have, like, one vote. are you doing this because sesq did it and he was town? is it on purpose?

@doom, 616: yeah, I like this post. he explains his thoughts clearly and clears every possible doubt on the breadcrumb. doom is solid town.

@hans, 622: don't like hans tone here. feels uncharacteristically (the biggest word I ever wrote on mafiascum) aggressive.

Page 26

@fitz, 628: waiting at that readlist I asked you about.

answering to UD on another post.

@hans, 637: wait. if you're town you should support your case regardless of what it is. you shouldn't be concerned about making your reads OMGUS. you only do that if you are scum.

@mozamis, 641: what did you saw on Revan's posts that you liked?

ONLY do.it.if you're scum?
You really didn't understand my OMGUS point did you?

Reread what I actually said and it may make more sense.

[Superhans]

What makes them garbage?

Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.

This seems rather odd to say either to a scumread as town or to a scumpartner as scum. What do you guys make of this?

If my theory is correct, it would be interesting to see what one does when the other is wagoned. I've been suspicious anyway.

VOTE: Superhans

By the way, Hans, did you change your avatar to match Sesq's just to irritate those of us who reread the thread?

I didn't take it from Sesq, I snatched it from Alisae.

Also I'm deliberately trying to vote differently because my jumpy voting usually gets me nothing but scum reads.

My avatars copied off of Alisae, not Sesq.

[Superhans]

OMGUS usually comes across as a kneejerk reaction.

[Superhans]

@UD if Moz flips:
Scum, who is the partner?
Town, who is the partner?

Why do you care about this? I'll admit that I occasionally do pre-flip associations when I'm in the mood, but w'ere in a game without a night kill, which means that there's probably LESS utility from this than usual. Like, say moz is lynched and flips scum and then we get day-vigged before we can talk about associations. While there would be less of a legacy on our end, there would also be the benefit that scum is out of kill shots, which strikes me as a perfectly fine outcome.

TLDR: I'm not especially in the mood to discuss pre-flip associations, although I suppose that's potentially subject to change if I get in the mood.
-M

I wanna know. Don't buy your point that it being nightless invidates this question, I think that pre flips can generate pretty insightful content.

[Superhans]

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but " not being in the mood" sounds like you're just being really lazy and don't respect me enough to answer the question.

[Superhans]

A P E A S E M E N The
W O N ' T
W O R K

[Superhans]

@MOI
U didn't mention Fitz which made me think you'd forgotten about him.

[Superhans]

Oh shit sorry, read having as in the verb having
Feel like an even bigger fool

[Superhans]

If they are scum, and you (Moz) are not, why would they abstain from pushing you as scum?

[Superhans]

Would not like to push today, feel flipping Revan/Mozamis will be far safer.

[Superhans]

@UD
I want u to answer my question even if u think it is pointless. It will help me.

[Superhans]

Think Mozamis pushing UD is either theatre (unlikely) but looks like an attempt of scum trying to capitalise on a shift of pressure onto UD.

[Superhans]

On the other hand I may be wrong about Mozamis...

UNVOTE: mozy
K I'm not so sure about UD being town...
I just read what Lucca said about UD voting Moz but not applying any pressure, which is very compelling but.if this were to be true Moz' push would have had to be ingenuine.

[Superhans]

I have a little time on my hands this weekend.

SH is looking better, UD is looking worse. Moz is town in my gut.

How in YOUR opinion is SH looking better and UD looking worse? I get that seems to have been board consensus around that time, but why do YOU think that was the case?

-M

I rate this question. Revan popped up, echoed popular opinion and then fucked off.

[Superhans]

Alright, exams are over. I'm really really sorry for the apathy coming from this slot, I've been really busy and mafia just wasnt a priority.

That's going to change over the course of today though.

Wguert if ur free can u give it reads on UD and ur reads on Moz.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Mozamis

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

so you dont actually give reason for voting me. And this is the most important of your post.
And then you spend a long time discussing theory.
Yeah, these guys are scum.
Lets do this!

Seems over eager to be bussing? No?

[Superhans]

*slight digression* was thinking about this the other day: AtE "appeal to emotion", right?
Is this meant to be 1) a scum tell 2) or just an internet way of saying "emotional".
Becuase if its meant to be a scumtell, it's total balls. Or used badly.
Town are emotional just as much, if not more so, than scum.

dude ur right emotiions can be NAI, but saying that your emotions make you town doens't change anything.

best way to prove ur town is to catch scum.

[Superhans]

Revan is online, heya if u can read this

[Superhans]

Here's my issue with Revan (which aligns with yours for different reasons) - he seems like absolute lynchbait. Bad posting and complete lack of content for two game days.

i'd rather lynch Revan today tbh,
like i know im going to get shit for it, cos it looks like im backing off of Moz, and I have been accused of being partners with him (im not btw @Fitz)
but i think that Revans lurking is deliberate, and scummy, think his previous post was a prod dodge. keeping his vote on me (after saying i looked better (?!)

I have a little time on my hands this weekend.

SH is looking better, UD is looking worse. Moz is town in my gut.

mentions that UD is worse and that Moz is better, y is he not on a wagon? Potentially realises that if he coasts through today with prod dodges (deadline fast approaching) he could get away sticking on me, not being on a wagon that and hence not held accountable to flips.

VOTE: Revan

[Superhans]

will hop off this wagon if it doesn't gain traction, but to anyone who is undecided, i urge u to read Revans ISO, i honestly think he is our safest bet.

[Superhans]

What makes them garbage?

Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.

This seems rather odd to say either to a scumread as town or to a scumpartner as scum. What do you guys make of this?

If my theory is correct, it would be interesting to see what one does when the other is wagoned. I've been suspicious anyway.

VOTE: Superhans

By the way, Hans, did you change your avatar to match Sesq's just to irritate those of us who reread the thread?

gun to head, who would you kill out of me and Revan?

[Superhans]

I've done a lot actually, just haven't put it down yet. I have a lot of stuff in my head.

Name 2 things you've done.

[Superhans]

Cos saying you've been doing stuff is less effective than actually doing stuff.

[Superhans]

Vote Count 2.6

Mozamis

(3):

Superhans

, MagnaofIllusion, Ultimate Despair, havingfitz

Superhans

(2): Revan,

mozamis

, doomfeathers

Ultimate Despair

(2): lucca261, mozamis

Not Voting

(1): wgeurts, superhans

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

wgeurts & revan are being prodded.

(expired on 2017-02-04 09:00:01) until deadline.

Wguerts should vote. It's late.

[Superhans]

Going to try and write up a case on UD tomorrow if I have the time.

Revan hasn't made a scum argument on me ALL day and his vote is still on me.

If Revan doesn't have time to push UD then he'll effectively have done absolutely nothing so u better make this USlD case.

[Superhans]

I am doing stuff in my head. I have reads, and I have opinions on who I think is scum. I just haven't gotten to a computer so I can share that with you guys.

if u dont have a computer how r u writing this post?
also y not throw in some of your opinions while you'r making this half assed excuse?

[Superhans]

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Um....participate. Talk to people. Ask and answer questions. Try to find scum. Lay low when you are scu.....

lol subtle. u gonna vote Rev? cos i want to see it lynched.

[Superhans]

Its simple.
Just Lynch Rev.

[Superhans]

i use my phone like 90% of the time,
y do u think i am less likely town today?

what is the basic principle (no need to go into depth) of ur case on UD?

Any new reads you'll promise to elaborate on in the future?

[Superhans]

Its simple.
Just Lynch Rev.

The sudden strong push right before Day deadline to keep Moz from swinging is noted.

We only need two more Moz votes ...

Is pushing Rev today out the question then?

[Superhans]

I want vote to moz right now, but I won't until I write up my reads.

no one vote Moz until Rev gets near a computer. Also Rev why have you flipped from UD to Moz? What happened to your 'strong case'?

Rev is obviously not genuine at all.

[Superhans]

so you're going to go with whatevers easiest? like moz. jeeesus christ what a shit way to play.

[Superhans]

WIFOM lynchbait i think.

[Superhans]

Page 29

(god I am behind)

@magna, 712: I have given other scumreads other than UD. Mozamis and Superhans remain both a scumread of me and I'm willing to lynch them both today, in case we can't get a lynch on UD. I think one of them is a partner of UD. Both make sense, as Superhans and UD haven't made a lot of contact over the game and the Mozamis-UD crossvote seemed out of the blue and suspicious for me. But I don't think that a UD/Mozamis/Hans team is possible. The last scum would be inbetween Fitz/Revan/Wgeurts, with their likeability changing from who the second scum is. Of course, this is considering UD is scum. No matter how sure I am that UD is scum, there is always the possibility that I'm wrong. In that case, I would need to re-evaluate these reads.

@super, 715: as for super latest posts, I'm thinking that Mozamis is scummier than him, these days. I would lynch Mozamis before him. these posts made me feel like Super is a town member who was not taking the game seriously at the start, but now he's trying to participate, to scumhunt, even if his methods are a bit spotty.

@mozamis, 716: fuck yeah. even if is a bus, one more person on the wagon is good.

@super, 723: so you're unvoting Mozamis, then calling him scum at the end of the post? I don't get it. and call me paranoid, but both Hans and Mozamis joining UD wagon make me feel extremely unconfortable.

Page 30

@super, 725: what is your read on wgeurts at the moment, hans?

@mozamis, 730: I weirdly like this outburst.

@lucca, 734: yeah, totally.

responding to fitz catchup on another post, it was getting confusing

I think Moz is scum, correct, but i reaally didn't like where Rev was whilst all this was going on. Moz' wagon quickly built up steam and where was Rev during all of this? literally lurking out pressure.

im confident Revan is scum, not 100% confident Moz is scum, could both be scum. Moz' vote on Revan makes this unlikely, however.

[Superhans]

We're approaching deadline. I'll lynch whoever I think is scum and has a good chance of being lynched, doesn't have to be my top scumread.

why not though?

[Superhans]

Y not push UD if you think he is more likely to be scum than Moz (I personally don't)

[Superhans]

You seem to think Rev is lymchbait over obvious in your face scum?

[Superhans]

Cos I'll happily vote Moz Rev wagon doesn't gain traction. Not town reading Moz on any level.

[Superhans]

Just imho
Rev > Moz

[Superhans]

Prod Wguerts

[Superhans]

VOTE: Moz

K switching to Moz, agree that her reads seem fake, and Rev doesn't seem likely today.

[Superhans]

Think Moz flipping onto Rev, but then failing to push him suggests her vote was never serious.

[Superhans]

Moz is on L1 btw.

[Superhans]

K nm she is L0

[Superhans]

Basic AF excuse but I didn't actually realise I was quick hammering
I glanced at the VC at the top of the page and voted.

[Superhans]

Not that I care if u believe me.

[Superhans]

I was catching up and got a PM saying Day 3 has started. I honestly have no idea who got lynched.

Hi everyone I wanna be lynchbait too

I fixed your typos

-M

What a low content smear post.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Revan

[Superhans]

I regret flipping my vote to Moz. Rev still best bet.

[Superhans]

Me?

[Superhans]

K
UNVOTE: Revan
For now

[Superhans]

Where is this scum read on Doom coming from Rev?

[Superhans]

Revoking my town read on MOI, will be back with further elaboration.

[Superhans]

MOI + Revan scum team, is this implausible?

[Superhans]

Or UD + Revan

[Superhans]

My hammer was a genuine accident although I know my word means very little.

[Superhans]

So L3 is dangerous territory.

[Superhans]

Vote like:
I will vote x

[Superhans]

I think MOI is scum. You're clearly an experienced player and you were the driving force behind two mislynches. I wouldn't mind this alone, but its posts like:

I’m tired of playing nice …

Idk, 799 looks town to me...

VOTE: UD

Here is an ultimatum Rev. Either you vote Moz or I am voting you. I have my reasons. You have about 24 hours.

--

You seem to think Rev is lymchbait over obvious in your face scum?

I think it is suspect as hell that the only time momentum appears on Rev is when I convienently mention how he isn’t getting pressure and half the insta-votes came from Moz my top scum suspect.

--

anyone got a clear, coherent case on me that i can respond to?
normally by now people are too pig headed/stupid to change their minds but whatever...
Oh, and by clear coherent case, I dont meen Magna asking me questions like
"why is the sky blue?"
no, why?
no, moz, why?"
But i'll reply to a small, well made out case.

This, by the way, is classic scum posting. Scum love nice summarized cases to argue against. In addition it infers that there is no reason to be voting her (and tries to dismiss my many, many points made against Moz as irrelevant when clearly they are not fluff like “Why is the sky blue”).

Vote this scum!

@p.edit : it seemed a bit like coaching.

And yet another reason Moz is scum. She’s trying to pick out things she thinks she can frame as scummy (“Looks like coaching to me”) as opposed to honestly thinking about the game. As Lucca has pointed out – scum have daytalk …

The mafia may discuss in their private topic during the day.

So coaching is NEVER a valid scum-tell. Moz isn't interested in actually finding scum ... just finding things she thinks she can peddle as scum-tells.

are so fucking forceful, you accused me of being Moz scum partner for pushing Revan,

Is pushing Rev today out the question then?

You can’t be serious in pretending that I didn’t just call out the sudden interest in a Revan lynch by yourself and Moz right after I floated he looked like scum. The whole “Bury my head in the sand to negative comments” tactic isn’t going to bear fruit for you.

I think Moz is scum, correct, but i reaally didn't like where Rev was whilst all this was going on. Moz' wagon quickly built up steam and where was Rev during all of this? literally lurking out pressure.

And this is probably scum partner posting.

1. Moz’s wagon did not “quickly build steam”. In fact for a good portion of the day you had more votes than Moz. It has been a complete uphill fight to even get Moz at L-2 for any extended period.
2. Revan had zero votes today until you and Moz just recent dropped yours back to back. So while Revan may have been lurking out something it certainly wasn’t pressure.

--

I want vote to moz right now, but I won't until I write up my reads.

Get working on that …

i won't follow on any of your scum pushes today.

[Superhans]

vote MOI at this point

[Superhans]

what does 'of course you would' even mean?
who gets the cookie?

u r being vague as possible and using your postiion as town leader to completely dismiss my push on Revan and yourself.

[Superhans]

i think MOI + Revan is a likely possibility.

[Superhans]

MOI would not consider my wagon on Revan at all. even tried to accuse me of being scum partner with Moz.

[Superhans]

Want to lynch Rev first. possibility that MOI has just been really unlucky with reads.

vote Rev at this point

[Superhans]

Unsubstantiated scum pairings?

[Superhans]

Non committal by using likely rather than definitely?

[Superhans]

Trying to associate players?

[Superhans]

Cos i would dispute any of these reasons.

[Superhans]

Page 37

some of doom posting today are making me feel conflicted. he's posting a lot, but on some of this posts, he puts zero content. Fitz with one post had more content than all of Doom posts today.

@mozamis, 906: i'll be honest and say that this made me laugh a lot.

@magna, 907: what are you seeing on these three posts?

@doom, 908: and I'm the only one that revan townreads? is this a reaction test?

where did Hans's Revan scumread went? lol. for someone who was so sure that Revan is scum, he's voting MOI now. yeah, hans is scum. I'd say that Revan and Hans is getting more possible with every post that Hans and Revan push each other but start to push other people and forget about each other.

I have completely no reaction to Hans this page. like, no reaction. it's dumb as fuck. i'm mad.

i will do my wagon analysis later, want to post on other games first.

I voted Revan over moi

[Superhans]

Page 34

@hans, 833: didn't you do that too?

@UD, 836: ironic.

@UD, 838: do you think he saw that you did it and managed to stay alive, then did it because why not?

so, about that hammer...

I'm willing to believe that Hans accidentally hammered. he had nothing from gain by doing that. it would only attract unwanted attention for him, attention he wouldn't want as scum. He could easily have voted him, knowingly hammered and no one would instalynch him for it. My problem is not if the hammer was accidental or not.

My problem is the change to vote Mozamis when a new player had voted him just before. When Mozamis seemed like the most possible read, Hans was quick to vote him, and, regardless if he knew that he was hammering or no, this is scummy as fuck.

Without Mozamis in the game things get harder. I was thinking that Mozamis was scum, in fact, I wanted to move my vote to his wagon. I liked some UD posts and was starting to consider that I was maybe tunneling him. Now with 7 scum candidates, we have less player to consider. I think that Magna is not scum. Doom is not scum. Fitz is not scum. So I'd like to work with four suspects for now. Nahdia, Revan, UD and Hans. I'd say Nahdia because his vote was non-committal as a vote could be: "Hey, did I read the game or I'm only voting him to sheep Magna? look it's L-1 bye".
.

Agree that Doom is likely not scum, but I urge you to read MOI beyond just producing posts with seemingly good content. Chance that he is town, sure, but please don't automatically town read him.

[Superhans]

I’m tired of playing nice …

Idk, 799 looks town to me...

VOTE: UD

Here is an ultimatum Rev. Either you vote Moz or I am voting you. I have my reasons. You have about 24 hours.

--

You seem to think Rev is lymchbait over obvious in your face scum?

I think it is suspect as hell that the only time momentum appears on Rev is when I convienently mention how he isn’t getting pressure and half the insta-votes came from Moz my top scum suspect.

--

anyone got a clear, coherent case on me that i can respond to?
normally by now people are too pig headed/stupid to change their minds but whatever...
Oh, and by clear coherent case, I dont meen Magna asking me questions like
"why is the sky blue?"
no, why?
no, moz, why?"
But i'll reply to a small, well made out case.

This, by the way, is classic scum posting. Scum love nice summarized cases to argue against. In addition it infers that there is no reason to be voting her (and tries to dismiss my many, many points made against Moz as irrelevant when clearly they are not fluff like “Why is the sky blue”).

Vote this scum!

@p.edit : it seemed a bit like coaching.

And yet another reason Moz is scum. She’s trying to pick out things she thinks she can frame as scummy (“Looks like coaching to me”) as opposed to honestly thinking about the game. As Lucca has pointed out – scum have daytalk …

The mafia may discuss in their private topic during the day.

So coaching is NEVER a valid scum-tell. Moz isn't interested in actually finding scum ... just finding things she thinks she can peddle as scum-tells.

If Revan had hammered Moz, how would we havw been able to hold him accountable with shit like this.

[Superhans]

@lucca216: The "threatening" thing was a Monsters, Inc. quote that I couldn't resist sticking in. I know you're not really threatening me.

@MoI: Are you ready to state your reasons for actually threatening Revan yet?

Is Superhans' jump onto the Magna wagon opportunistism or townish paranoia? Is it possible that Magna looks to scum like a possible mislynch, or that scum just don't want to be on any real wagons at the moment?

No matter who we scumread, we seem to agree that scum are somewhere in (Superhans, Revan, UD). Why don't we lynch one of these more scumread players? That way, we're more likely to hit scum, so we'll have more breathing room while going after others.

You're still hard town reading MOI, I'm guessing?

[Superhans]

im trying to find associations between two players rather than three players because its more likely this is achievable.

[Superhans]

also I don't see you trying to pair together three scum in far more cases you're also only linking partners.

[Superhans]

at MOI, can you give an example from your ISO when you mention 3 mafia potential pairings over 2 mafia potential pairings.

[Superhans]

lol i meant @MOI

[Superhans]

we don't have a deadline Doom, no serious time pressure.

[Superhans]

No matter who we scumread, we seem to agree that scum are somewhere in (Superhans, Revan, UD). Why don't we lynch one of these more scumread players? That way, we're more likely to hit scum, so we'll have more breathing room while going after others.

You do realize that it's MYLO right? One mislynch = game over? This seems like a bizarrely relaxed perspective given the game state. Do you think it's SH/Revan/us exactly? Are you somehow not concerned about picking wrong in that group? If the latter, please explain why you're not concerned about what could potentially be a game-ending decision.
-M

I'm just saying that everyone seems to agree that there is scum in that group, so we're more likely to hit scum if we lynch from this pool. Yes, it's still important that we pick the right lynch.

But why have to narrow it down to those there players at all? Whats the point in restricting ourselves?

[Superhans]

UD i explained why I accidentally voted and its in my ISO.

[Superhans]

well I thought she would flip scum, tbh.

[Superhans]

so i didnt realise how badly id fucked up.

[Superhans]

well I thought she would flip scum, tbh.

So essentially you were so sure of Moz flipping scum that you didn't worry about a sketchy-looking sheep vote cast right before your own?

-M

i didnt' see the vote, i thought i made myself clear that it was an accident i immediately regretted.

[Superhans]

also you show zero emotion after mishammering FC, you don't even apologise for it in the following post.

[Superhans]

seems hypocritical to say the least.

[Superhans]

It's pretty angry arrogance, that's for sure. I took into account what I'd read, then applied my best guess at what emotions would be difficult to fake as scum. Your attitude would be pretty easy, in my opinion.

Also, please provide specific examples of what you consider "angry arrogance" from my posting, as opposed to "contemptuous arrogance", "regular arrogance", etc (and by specific examples I mean quotes, preferably with explanations of what you're seeing). You've represented that you've done enough work to tone-read me, this shouldn't be difficult for you to provide.
-M

this is effectively an impossible task, to find alternative situations to apply to this scenario. usually importing alternate game situations convulates the situation.

i don't think it is reasonable to excpect Doom to dredge through threads trying to find an example, especially, as you pointed out, he is a newer player.

[Superhans]

@Revan,
You've been playing in your other game, y not this one?

[Superhans]

"Junko did it, its not my fuckup", this is such a bad excuse it may actaully be a town tell. idc

who

hammered, it was one of you from within that hydra.
my mindset after the hammer was, as iv said, regret, as presumably you two felt if you are town.

[...]

this is effectively an impossible task, to find alternative situations to apply to this scenario. usually importing alternate game situations convulates the situation.

i don't think it is reasonable to excpect Doom to dredge through threads trying to find an example, especially, as you pointed out, he is a newer player.

I asked him to find examples of this tone from MY posting. He clearly represented that such examples exist. It should not be difficult for him to provide said examples with explanations of what he's seen from me that explicitly fits into that paradigm he described.

I also asked him to find ONE example of this being easily or effectively faked by scum. He said that it was easy for scum to do, this is either a nothing statement (because there's no evidence behind it and it's an intellectually lazy "well I think it'd be easy") or he's seen it before at least once and can cite.

-M

the quote of me (in orange) is removing the quote that you made:

It's pretty angry arrogance, that's for sure. I took into account what I'd read, then applied my best guess at what emotions would be difficult to fake as scum. Your attitude would be pretty easy, in my opinion.

Also, please provide specific examples of what you consider "angry arrogance" from my posting, as opposed to "contemptuous arrogance", "regular arrogance", etc (and by specific examples I mean quotes, preferably with explanations of what you're seeing). You've represented that you've done enough work to tone-read me, this shouldn't be difficult for you to provide.

-M

this is effectively an impossible task, to find alternative situations to apply to this scenario. usually importing alternate game situations convulates the situation.

i don't think it is reasonable to excpect Doom to dredge through threads trying to find an example, especially, as you pointed out, he is a newer player.

that specifically contradicts what you say in 994:

you say in 994 that you want an example of 'this' (sounding like you just wanted an example of anger emotion), but you actually said that you wanted very specific and objective definitions of anger: 'angry arrogance', 'contemptuous arrogance' and my favourite of all 'regular arrogance' (?) and you have the cheek to suggest that "it shouldn't be difficult for you to provide"

i certainly wouldn't be able to come up with your 50 shades of arrogance, and equally i don't think it would help this game at all, you're choosing a route of debate that will convulate this thread and be inherently non-fruitful.

Can

YOU

provide an example of these different types of arrogance? no. probably not. you probably can't even define a suitable definition for them either.

[Superhans]

Open 669-

Spoiler: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem is an open setup designed by Tragedy.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia 2-Shot Day Goon
9 Vanilla Townies

This setup is Nightless.

The Mafia 2-Shot Day Goon may shoot only once per game day.

The vote count resets when a Mafia daykill goes through.

A Townie who has been lynched on Day 1 may choose to act as a Vengeful Townie and take someone else down with him/her. This applies only on Day 1.

The mafia may discuss in their private topic during the day.

Standard Role PMs

Mafia Goon

You are a Mafia Member, Aligned with the Mafia.
Your allies are ??? (Mafia Member) & ??? (Mafia Two-Shot Daykill Member). You may communicate with them HERE.
You win when the number of Mafia Members equals the amount of Citizens.

Mafia Two-Shot Day Goon

You are a Mafia Two-Shot Daykill Member, Aligned with the Mafia.
Your allies are ??? (Mafia Member) & ??? (Mafia Member). You may communicate with them HERE.
During each day, you may choose to kill someone, by PMing the moderator. You only have 2 shots to use, so use them wisely.
You win when the number of Mafia Members equals the amount of Citizens.

Townie

You are a Citizen, Aligned with the Town.
If you are voted out on the first day, you may take someone else down with you.
You win when you manage to eliminate every single member of the Mafia.[/spoiler]

LIVING PLAYERS

MagnaofIllusion
Nahdia_Superfan

wgeurts

Revan
Ultimate Despair
lucca261
Superhans
doomfeathers
havingfitz

LINKS

Day 1: Post #25
First Blood: Post #175
Day 2: Post #497
Day 3: Post #842

Spoiler: dead

Hawk,

Townie

Friend Computer,

Townie

Sesq,

Townie

mozamis,

Townie

[/spoiler]

@Lucca
You're comfortable disregarding Revan because he's lurked all if today?

[Superhans]

Did not mean to quote that.

[Superhans]

@UD, 975: you were voting Mozamis. so, when's he lynched, your reaction is thinking that who hammered is scum? this makes no sense.

---

let's not forget UD though process here:

UD: "Hey, arrogance is a town-tell" --- "I do posts where I'm completely arrogant, appeal to emotion and demonstrate knowledge of alignment" --- "but I am arrogant, therefore I'm town" --- "why? because I'm arrogant, and arrogance is town"

---

in the middle of the UD crazyness, I don't like that Hans jumped at the discussion to defend himself, made no points, and gets out proclaiming UD as town (?) because of his bad excuse.

Hans-UD-Nahdia, anybody?

where do proclaim UD as town? you're misrepresenting me.