Mystic Mafia [Endgame]

[Kagami]

I think now is a good time to talk about what happened yesterday, since no one has claimed the action, and everyone has posted. I don't understand how no one except spyrex seems concerned by this, but whatever.

1071 is the "final" VC of the day. The VC suggesting the day ended when Zito was at L-1, together with the flavor text surrounding it, tells us that this was not a govern, but rather that the Day ended early, presumably because someone made it end early. Whoever did it managed to squeeze it in between Camntsuki's vote in 1067 and Dunn's vote in 1069, which is a 15 minute window, so it was almost certainly done as soon as zito hit L-1 by someone who was present at the time, was watching fairly vigilantly, and wanted to make sure it was used before zito was lynched.

No one has claimed the action, so scum probably did it. If scum did it, then they blew an extremely powerful role Day 1. For whoever said scum can't have this role, I've only ever seen it once, with scum-ActionDan having it in one of FG's touhou games. Our beloved katsuki was scum with AD in that particular game, so I shouldn't be the only one who remembers it.

I think this means two things: Firstly, that zito is indeed scum. It wasn't some foolish townie who saved him, it was scum. They used a super-powerful ability to do it, too. It would be incredibly stupid to waste that if zito were town, because any number of things could have happened to foil that. He could have had an awesome PR that he could have used to do some obviously town thing, he could have been investigated in some way that showed him to be town, any number of things could have happened that would have left scum high and dry when they could have allowed a nice, happy mislynch to go through on someone who easily could have been a strong town PR. Secondly, it means that the partner who saved him was active in that window, which probably rules out Zito himself.

There's only three possibilities that I can think of for zito being town. One is that some dum-dum saved him and isn't owning up to it, which they hopefully do if I'm wrong here and wasting valuable words. Two is that town-Zito saved himself, he jumped in during exactly that 15 minute window and ended the day, and he decided not to say anything while doing it nor doing anything to suggest that maybe we should be lynching elsewhere, and then he posted today without owning up to it. Third is that scum had this power as a Day 1 only thing, which is kind of stupid from a design standpoint, and I still don't think they'd save Zito for WIFOM.

VOTE: Zito

[Kagami]

I have a PT with Mollie where I've already said this, and she's working very hard to save zito and deflect toward Nacho.

She has Dunn as super-duper town, and, like dunn, has jumped down my throat if I mention any possibility of dunn not being town. The only reason for that is that she perceives that he is trying to sort things out. She wondered how I knew she had a PT with Dunn (I don't know why she thought that, I never said anything implying it), and after ignoring my first request, told me he neighborized her last night for a single night, which makes his power very similar to mine.

I had neighborized her because she claimed to get something from it, but there's been absolutely no mention of any benefit. I gave my orb piece to mollie, which was a mistake.

[Staeg]

and I still don't think they'd save Zito for WIFOM.

I disagree with this part. If it's a day 1 only thing they would definitely use it and then not claim it to send day 2 down the drain as well.

Anyway, I disagree with some of your premises - for one, I believe it's very possible that some roles have trigger-on-X-event type abilities, such as "end the day when [pool of people] reach L-1" and Fate simply wasn't around in the 16 minutes before the next vote.

[Staeg]

Oh, the other disagreeable premise being that the flavor text indicates not-a-govern.

[Kagami]

That's kind of goofy, but yes, that's possible. That doesn't really change much beyond making Dunn's vote substantially worse. Still makes zito scum since he had such a power and never saw fit to mention it as he got run up.

I don't actually think it's a Day 1 thing, that was just me trying to come up with all the counter-arguments I could generate to zito-scum. I consider that to have such an improbable prior I'm willing to discount it.

[Kagami]

-____-

I disagree, and the VC suggests not a govern anyway, but I still don't see how that affects the conclusion.

[Staeg]

Very fair. I myself would currently bet money on Zito coming in and claiming it's his doing despite dropping no hints of it in his only d2 post, but you never know.
A possibility I entertained at day-end yesterday was that Dunn caused this to happen with his hammer-vote, but that seems largely irrelevant today, given all the rails Dunn has gone off on the orb-path.

About the govern - I appear to have pulled a 2/3-retard. What you were referring to in the rest of your post was what I thought a governor was.

[Kagami]

I interpreted Dunn's vote as an orb grab, which suggests town to my mind, but the SAD kill really feels like something Dunn would do and it's incredible to me that someone would recognize zito's danger and act decisively in that 15 minute window when typically one would expect a request for a claim.

It might be as simple as a reflexive thing though. Still means zito scum.

[Kagami]

Mollie-Dunn thing is super weird and Dunn having almost my exact role is concerning. idk. Zito is scum though, and I'm pretty happy to work from there.

[pirate mollie]

thank god everything is out out in the open. here we go!

I wld also like to point out that no1 seems to be reading my posts. some pple aren't reading the game so from henceforth I will rename pple who do this as pisskop1, pisskop2, and so on, etc. if any1 needs any explanation for this I will be happy to provide 1.

I think now is a good time to talk about what happened yesterday, since no one has claimed the action, and everyone has posted. I don't understand how no one except spyrex seems concerned by this, but whatever.

this is not true. rc talked about how it made zito town and I said no it doesn't, it was possible he was scum or that a misguided townie governed him. and I said that I was waiting for zito.

for me personally, I think it is pretty fruitless to pursue something and tie up the game until some clarification takes place from the person involved. so I decided to let it be until we heard from zito.

he posted he has a sick child and zito is defo not the type to lie or use a IRL situ in order to avoid this game I am patient to wait until he has time to post and I said this.

<----- is any1 confused about why I took this approach?

I AM WAITING FOR ZITO TO ANSWER TO YESTERDAY'S EVENT.

in the pt you said that zito was scum because of a role that you saw in another game where scum ended the day early, and that was why you read zito as scum. I that this was silly cos there were other possibilities and then I named them. you were still committed to zito!scum for the reason you gave. I assumed that you knew that I was waiting for zito since I said this in the game thread.

again no hard defending of zito has taken place.

1071 is the "final" VC of the day. The VC suggesting the day ended when Zito was at L-1, together with the flavor text surrounding it, tells us that this was not a govern, but rather that the Day ended early, presumably because someone made it end early. Whoever did it managed to squeeze it in between Camntsuki's vote in 1067 and Dunn's vote in 1069, which is a 15 minute window, so it was almost certainly done as soon as zito hit L-1 by someone who was present at the time, was watching fairly vigilantly, and wanted to make sure it was used before zito was lynched.

see this is where I am brought up the possibility of a governor. it sounds much more reasonable than jumping to the conclusion that zito cut the game early cos he is scum doesn't it? it must cos now you are bringing it up in the game thread and acting like it was your own idea.

again, no hard defending of zito has taken place

I do not a rush lynch on zito until I hear from him. you said that you were not going to lynch any1 but zito.

No one has claimed the action, so scum probably did it. If scum did it, then they blew an extremely powerful role Day 1. For whoever said scum can't have this role, I've only ever seen it once, with scum-ActionDan having it in one of FG's touhou games. Our beloved katsuki was scum with AD in that particular game, so I shouldn't be the only one who remembers it.

I think that this is an erroneous conclusion to jump to since I provided alternate scenarios of what might have taken place instead of basing it off of 1 GAME where you saw a similar situ. why even I even said it in this very thread.

I think this means two things: Firstly, that zito is indeed scum. It wasn't some foolish townie who saved him, it was scum. They used a super-powerful ability to do it, too. It would be incredibly stupid to waste that if zito were town, because any number of things could have happened to foil that. He could have had an awesome PR that he could have used to do some obviously town thing, he could have been investigated in some way that showed him to be town, any number of things could have happened that would have left scum high and dry when they could have allowed a nice, happy mislynch to go through on someone who easily could have been a strong town PR. Secondly, it means that the partner who saved him was active in that window, which probably rules out Zito himself.

I disagree with this. and this is part of what I think the conflict between us lies.

There's only three possibilities that I can think of for zito being town. One is that some dum-dum saved him and isn't owning up to it, which they hopefully do if I'm wrong here and wasting valuable words. Two is that town-Zito saved himself, he jumped in during exactly that 15 minute window and ended the day, and he decided not to say anything while doing it nor doing anything to suggest that maybe we should be lynching elsewhere, and then he posted today without owning up to it. Third is that scum had this power as a Day 1 only thing, which is kind of stupid from a design standpoint, and I still don't think they'd save Zito for WIFOM.

VOTE: Zito

I am waiting for zito. I am not going to tie up and stall the game until he comes back and explains.

as of this moment I don't have a scumread on zito. I am waiting for him to provide an explanation.

if some1 is confused about this let me know.

[Infinity 324]

I'm fine with waiting for zito but kagami is pretty convincing

[Papa Zito]

I still need to read up but to answer the major question -

Uh

Did you stop the lynch? Y/N

Yes and no. I had in my possession a tradable item called the "Talisman of Protection". I thought it just protected against nightkills but apparently it protected against kills of any type.

[Kagami]

Why isn't Dunn's vote in the VC?

[Infinity 324]

^

[Staeg]

I still need to read up but to answer the major question -

Uh

Did you stop the lynch? Y/N

Yes and no. I had in my possession a tradable item called the "Talisman of Protection". I thought it just protected against nightkills but apparently it protected against kills of any type.

When'd you get it?

[Papa Zito]

Oh, huh. I have no idea. I guess that's how Fate chose to have the lynch protection work.

pedit: I started with it.

[Infinity 324]

Ok zito is probably town

[SpyreX]

Zito town water wet
Lynch infinity 2017

[SpyreX]

I have a PT with Mollie where I've already said this, and she's working very hard to save zito and deflect toward Nacho.

She has Dunn as super-duper town, and, like dunn, has jumped down my throat if I mention any possibility of dunn not being town. The only reason for that is that she perceives that he is trying to sort things out. She wondered how I knew she had a PT with Dunn (I don't know why she thought that, I never said anything implying it), and after ignoring my first request, told me he neighborized her last night for a single night, which makes his power very similar to mine.

I had neighborized her because she claimed to get something from it, but there's been absolutely no mention of any benefit. I gave my orb piece to mollie, which was a mistake.

Does what is happening here not match what you expected from the neighborhood?

[Infinity 324]

Zito town water wet

What?

[Staeg]

Zito town water wet

What?

Have you read Spyrex's previous posts on the Zito topic?

[pirate mollie]

I interpreted Dunn's vote as an orb grab, which suggests town to my mind, but the SAD kill really feels like something Dunn would do and it's incredible to me that someone would recognize zito's danger and act decisively in that 15 minute window when typically one would expect a request for a claim.

It might be as simple as a reflexive thing though. Still means zito scum.

here is where it gets interesting. in our pt you immediately said that you cldn't wait to hear from dunn about why the day ended early. I assumed that dunn in some way told you that we had a pt. that is where me, in my paranoid little mind, jumped to. by your response I realized that you likely didn't have a pt with dunn so I dropped it. you continued to throw shade on dunn while insisting zito was scum for the reason you gave and trying to push a wagon on zito before he had posted.

sooooo, I said that I had strong reason to believe that dunn was town. you asked me why. now at this point you know I had a pt with dunn. you say that sad thought that dunn was scum and that is why dunn had a reason to nk him. so iso-ed sad and point out that sad did not have dunn as scum, he had him him as null and said that dunn was very hard to read and that was why he was okay with a dunn lynch. the pple who sad were pushing were nacho/zito/nahdia/spyrella. you handwaved that away and said that was even more reason for dunn to nk sad.

I don't buy it. at this point and time, based off of our exchanges in the pt, I think dunn is very strong town. I say I do not like you throwing shade on dunn. you say that you weren't and that dunn was not a scumread. I quote where you threw shade on dunn and handwaved it away and insisted that you were not scumreading dunn.

i said my concern was why you were willing to give a pass at nacho. you say that he was not impressing you but you wanted to give him a few more days and continue your push on zito who still hasn't posted at this time. I asked again why were you giving nacho a pass. you said he reached out to you. I did an iso on nacho and he only mentioned your name 1 time and that was to say that he was not treating you any differently than anybody else and say, that is not a reach out to you that is him answering my question. you said he gave a hard reach out that something to do with codes and that you wld get back to it later. this is after you saying that you were gonna give the pt 1 more try and later said that this might be due to a possible miscommunication. you made 1 more post saying you wld get to it later.

you have made a post where you think that nacho was reaching out to you, bringing the game thread into the open quoting where nacho reached out to you. I am going to get to this in a separate post.

and this is where we are now. I am not giving you info about my role because I was and still am suspicious of you. that you brought this out in the open gets town points altho I feel like you skewed several things especially about dunn and I and what you said about nacho. you jump to your zito push altho his only post was to say he wld get back to this cos he had a sick child.

I hope this clears things up. I am sure I have left some parts out tho it is unintentional. and here we are.

[pirate mollie]

I still need to read up but to answer the major question -

Uh

Did you stop the lynch? Y/N

Yes and no. I had in my possession a tradable item called the "Talisman of Protection". I thought it just protected against nightkills but apparently it protected against kills of any type.

and zito has posted. yaye

[Papa Zito]

ok so maybe one reason why this game is so bonkers is because half of it is being played in other threads

[pirate mollie]

Mollie-Dunn thing is super weird and Dunn having almost my exact role is concerning. idk. Zito is scum though, and I'm pretty happy to work from there.

uhm mollie and dunn had a pt which you know about. in the pt I said that it was pretty convenient that nacho landed on 2 pple who apparently have an orb. I also said I wanted nacho's head on a platter for his paltry posting d1.

I ALSO said in mine and dunn's pt that I thought that each element/direction may possibly have their own pt. you did not bring it up in our pt so I did not mention it. if you did I missed it.