Mini 1868 - Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Realeo]

Hello!

I would start the game with a naked vote.

VOTE: Aj The Epic

[Realeo]

I am going to make it quick that

1) I am not sure I understand LuV wagon, either the early wagon or the late wagon

2) I reject the motion of hypo claim. Hypo claim in D2 would only be beneficial if we get throught to D3, but we would only get to D3 if we're in good shape. If we're in a good shape, why take the gamble? I understand the motion, I have done hypo claim in the past in @EM, but I don't think hypo claim is justified for this game.

3) Beside Aj, I am scumleaning Reflektor. However, I suspect that it's just game play and false alarm so I am not going to hold my gut to Reflektor. I am town leaning Persivul.

[Realeo]

Yup

[Realeo]

Is rm due to inactivity?

[Realeo]

In my experience, scum, who know the alignments, are less likely to have thoroughly read the setup than town. Further, while setup spec can be beneficial, it can also be used as a way to appear busy without really scum hunting.

This is disingenuous shade slinging.

Nobody knows alignments pregame, which is when reading the description whilst signing up... happens.

FoS: Persivul

I think given his modding experience *cough* The Purge *cough*, he is being genuine.

[Realeo]

It's just that I have lynched town!randomidget for the same reason before.

*cough* The Hunger Games *cough8

And remember that we're already in potential lylo in D2. I need more than policy lynch.

[Realeo]

Empking. I'm still trying to understand your brainz. Help me exactly with your Luv case. You said he did that for brownie point. Elaborate please.

[Realeo]

He's not talking about alignment, he's talking about competence.

Nah. I scum tunnel a game with Tammy.

[Realeo]

or Nammy. I am confused.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Shadonra

Can you elaborate this post?

[Realeo]

Am I the only one who is townleaning shadonra?

[Realeo]

VOTE: LUV

this is scum

page 1 posts scream "scum fitting in"

The first two points are NAI and the latter is subjective. What felt safe about my first five posts? My lack of an RVS vote? My suggestion?

your robot posting

I am going to push for this.

VOTE: BbMolla

Explain like I am 5, how does "robot posting" = "scum fitting in"

I think you're desperately trying to fit in. To make sure it doesn't seem fitting in, you call other fitting it.

[Realeo]

For someone, that is a regular scummie from 2011, I find it hard for that to fly.

[Realeo]

To be more precise, I find it confusing that you scumread LuV, but didn't scumread Tammy.

Tammy is not fitting in? If I were old timer like Reflektor, I would be alerted, which what Reflektor did.

[Realeo]

UNVOTE:

[Realeo]

Empking. I'm still trying to understand your brainz. Help me exactly with your Luv case. You said he did that for brownie point. Elaborate please.

What do you want me to eleborate on?

Which post would be trying to fish for town cred?

[Realeo]

I thought he was consolidated vig target.

[Realeo]

It very bothers me that some player seems so chilly with Tammy that when I am replacing-in, I expect a red PM. Boy, I am dissapointed.

-Madea:

Town lean

I can relate to Fate saying Madea is playing safe. However, I'd like to argue to Fate that he is playing a safe town, not a safe scum want to have his options open. I'd like to consider that he is being town for his attitude.

Spoiler: For quote and explanation

Actually it's weird that you didn't address my suggestion directly. Is there a reason you're avoiding interacting with me?

Your interaction with me is still not sitting right. Why are you being antagonistic and kinda putting me down. You're reminding me of the last time I suspected someone and they wrote a whole thing about how I wasn't playing well enough in an attempt to make me feel shitty and ignore they were being scummy as shit like you are.

Because I find the overall tenor of 'set-up is so swingy/unbalanced/scary' to be a waste of time and demoralizing

, because I'd expect you to take five minutes and think suggestions through before posting, and I expect more interesting observations from you mixed in with the emotional stuff.

How in the seven hells do you not have any idea what my alignment is?

Because I'm not scum so I don't have a master alignment list?

Seriously, a) even if reading you was one of my top priorities I don't have enough content on seeing you interact with most of the player list, b) I usually put off reading you as I explained earlier because the question resolves itself eventually and risks lots of emotional reaction in the meantime, c) while I may be missing some magic nuances, the posting you've done thus far is pretty alignment-neutral from my perspective.

The question is why ask gamma why he suggested the mass claim, when it should be abundantly obvious. He literally said he thought it might break the game. How is that not clear?

My intention was to inquire as to how he thought it would break the game.

I didn't see anything immediate to indicate such a thing was possible, so it wasn't abundantly clear to me. It's like saying 'we should colonize Mars!' and then expecting to be treated as a savant for the suggestion while having zero followthrough. I'm allowed to ask what kind of spaceships we should be building and what suggests the vistas on Mars are any better than the ones here.

-Aj :

Scum lean

shandora did an excellent job and when he mentioned that, when I looked at Aj's iso, I felt that I'm watching my scum play.

Spoiler: What shandora said

What don't you like about AJ's posts?

AJ's iso looks like this.

"setup spec setup spec setup spec"

"i hate setup spec! i never do setup spec"

"fate doesn't post"

It looks like he wanted to post but wasn't interested in saying anything.

But the biggest problem why I scumread that is

NOT

that. The biggest problem is I can't see him actually solving the game.

He makes comments, here and there

VOTE: BBmolla

I mean honestly you couldn't ask for a more useless vote than dropping one on indigo. Wants LuV wagon, gets two generic townreads, moves on to Fate. He even says Uzi's posts aren't good. Which, going by his last post

In all honesty I'm not voting for pressure any more im just voting who I think is most likely scum

He should still be voting LuV as he's said nothing about Fate anyways.

Also he actually took part in RQS so fuck him.

~~but his conclusion is...

VOTE: Randommidget

We can consolidate here.

With no (obvious) thinking process, I classify his previous post as shade throwing

VOTE: Aj

Weak town lean

at Persivul but effort is NAI so I need to read more. I can't get my head at Bbmolla so I'm going to put him at

weak scum lean

[Realeo]

Hey mod! When day vig shoots (from GS?), how does day vig shoots? Does they post in this thread like

Shoot: Donald Drumpf

Or secretly from PM?

(I'm using orange italic. I'm not impersonating mod since mod is orange bold =D)

[Realeo]

@AJ: I personally cannot see what you mean.

And to address Raelo's concern, this is what I expected. There's a spoken but previously unshown consensus for proceeding with RM. I had stated that I'd be interested in helping that. Over 100 posts and nothing happened with BBmola or the gamestate in general, it was best to temporarily move on.

So whatevah.. Let's stop scumhunting and lynch him?

And where does Medea comes from? I'm branding you sheeping scum. You say I'm undecided in the past. What changes?

[Realeo]

EBWOP

You said you're undecided on Medea in the past.

[Realeo]

K so this setup has gone form "inheritly scumsided" to "lol wtf free mafia win unless town is gods among gods"

I will literally WOTC anyone for the rest of my mafia career if they shoot in this setup, period. ever.

To be fair, this setup is designed for D1 mislynch...that we do need vig to shoot.

Although shoot in N2, not N1.

[Realeo]

With Medea, the reads list explanation was bad. I think I've already explained that. My initial thought was Tammy and Medea were in an interesting position of Medea asking questions when they were being the suspected and Tammy being really accusatory for page 3. There's also a lot of meta reads and conversation between Tammy/Medea so I just decided to not bother with it. The more recent posts from medea guide this read in it's entirety.

Now you point me at that, I agree

VOTE: Medea

[Realeo]

I wanted random to produce content thats all.

been busy, but my heart wasnt in that wagon as seen by other townies

VOTE: Medea

With that vote, I'm going to play the classic flip-flop town

UNVOTE:

[Realeo]

I keep thinking this...

There are 4 mafiosos.

Which wagon would the mafio sheep?

I feel, more uneasy voting this game.

[Realeo]

The randomidget wagon gives me a moment of pause.

[Realeo]

Which means that we are going to mislynch, right? How are we capable against 4 scum?

My mind shifts from "Which one is scum" to "Which town should I mislynch that gives the most information~ideally VT?"

And hopefully scores nice VCA in the future.

[Realeo]

There 13 players, it takes 7 players to lynch.

From those 7 player to lynch, it takes only 3 town to vote.

Scum has majority.

[Realeo]

(Trying to determine where scum is going to vote isn't useful until we actually know something).

We are a little bit desperate at this point.

[Realeo]

(Trying to determine where scum is going to vote isn't useful until we actually know something).

We are a little bit desperate at this point.

Vig and GS really should consider shooting and gunning

Vig should shoot for more info.

GS should gun for a clear in potentialy D2 lylo.

[Realeo]

It's not about the scumhunting skill.

It's the fact that scum can have majority in the lynch wagon.

[Realeo]

Here's my naive read list with extra analysis paralysis, Creature style

Gamma Emerald
Reflektor
randomidget
Lil Uzi Vert

Empking

Aj The Epic
BBMolla
shadonra

-Grey-

Fate

Persivul

Medea The Alien

[Realeo]

It's not about the scumhunting skill.

It's the fact that scum can have majority in the lynch wagon.

Majority is 7. There are 4 scum.

It takes 7 to lynch, right?

We can have a lynch wagon of 4x mafia , 3x town. Town is in

an implicit

minority.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Aj the epic

Scum used to be hard to find

*insert snarky response about you just being bad*

There's really no point in worrying about D2 already. If Vig shoots tonight and misses, then we'll have to mass claim tomorrow. That's about all there is to it.

Empking! BbMolla! Why don't you scumread this? Isn't this robotic~not scared of apocalyptic commet attack attitude

[Realeo]

Oh shoot. I forgot mod color.

@Mod: Why the hell GE is not replaced?

[Realeo]

Can I get readlist from other player? If you're lazy, Creature style seems an good option.

[Realeo]

Although {Ranger} style would be prefered.

[Realeo]

Let's do it then

Persivul - I town read him for noticing the coincidental language choice, which influences me to err on Persivul the town.

-Grey- - When I restart the Medea wagon, he sheeps back--which is consistent. I am going to err to -Grey- the town.

Reflektor - At the beginning, he a little bit bother me. However, when he's start being explicit with his(they) thinking process and I can observe their logic, I feel better.

Fate - When I got meltdown from the paranoia, I keep thinking, "What would scum do?" In Newbies queue, there is this "Mafia won't start a wagon", but does this apply? I am expecting that since it is a 4 players mafia with higher assosiation chance, I think scum would be more "voting aware". I won't classify Fate as "voting aware"

shadonra - I'm still waiting to hear why he exactly scumread me...

Empking - I townread his case @ LuV, but I'm waiting for his bigger case at other players.

Aj The Epic - You know, how you feel about this slot. Contrived.

Psstt. Does anyone want to lynch this slot? I'm down for it

Bbmolla - I actually forget about him. But I remember ending scumleaning him.

Madea - He gives me mixed feeling. I have Aj The Epic reasoning. I have my own reasoning. Decided to solve him D2.

LuV - This one is tricky.

@LuV: Why do you townread Aj?

[Realeo]

Than why you said I'm shallow? What is a shallow setup-spec?

....or is it someone else?

[Realeo]

Why do you think Grey is town, again? I don't see consistency as being particularly AI, especially on day 1.

He said he scumread Medea~the same reason that I actually scumread Medea. He was on the randomidget wagon when I started Medea wagon. When I started, he rejoined Medea wagon.

It is possible that I'm over-rating consistency at this stage of the game, but I still believe that scum has higher-than-normal incentive to mislynch and has incentive for easy mislynch. I feel -Grey- did not take the path.

[Realeo]

Good point =/

Would you mind to share your readlist?

[Realeo]

VOTE: Medea

I don't reckon I will be hoping out of the wagon anymore.

[Realeo]

Assuming no CC.

VOTE: Empking

[Realeo]

VOTE: AJ

[Realeo]

Ty. My brain is a disaster in this game.

[Realeo]

Vote: AJ

VOTE: BbMolla

[Realeo]

Molla is at L-1.

[Realeo]

So stop playing AtE and give the claim. It should be obvious by this point.

[Realeo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aj

Why you unvoted? He didn't claim anything.

VOTE: grey

24 hours left. Make up your mind?

[Realeo]

Let's get a grey wagon.

#350: Claims Persivul is shade throwing. Actually it's Grey that's throwing shade; I think Persivul is unlikely to throw shade by making a weird leap of logic like Grey is assuming.
#365: I think this post is bizarre. Two ways I could take this; you're either scumreading AJ or you think the quoted post is supertown. But

you don't vote AJ

and I don't think the quoted post is supertown.

Oh, you are scumreading AJ. OK, but why no vote?

Eh. If Grey is town:
1) He's confbiased pretty hard on Persivul
2) He didn't vote a bunch of scumreads (persivul, aj)
3) He's voted Medea, which I don't think has a good case on it, and Grey hasn't provided much of a case either.

Grey - why do you think Medea is scum over AJ and Persivul, particularly AJ, over whose vote you're willing to townclear bbmolla?

IMO this is the best case on anyone today. Otherwise I wouldn't be voting grey.

I cannot imagine this post even remotely persuasive.

[Realeo]

So the best away to avoid being lynch is by saying "fuck everyone".

Man, I should try that when I'm being lynched.

[Realeo]

for me the townest person in those 5 names is either empking or randommidget, it's close, but i feel like no one in the game is townreading all of those 4 on the right

How does empking town when the last time I checked his iso is he is obsessed with LuV?

[Realeo]

The one that catch my attention is randomidget unvoting for no reason.

AJ is being lynched right? So -Grey- bus AJ if AJ flips scum?

[Realeo]

Hammer without discussion is scumclaim

12 hours.

[Realeo]

No.

We have a ML.

With 4 mafia in the game, I am banking on VCA.

[Realeo]

No.

We have a ML.

With 4 mafia in the game, I am banking on VCA.

We can trade a ML for an extra night of 2 townclears or guilties. Come on.

Ye. With a Godfather in play. How smart.

(Obviously this is sarcasm : ON)

[Realeo]

Also, you can do VCA at L-1.

VCA relies on flip. With no flip, I cannot decide if it's wisdom of the crowd or scum sheeping.

[Realeo]

Cop turns as guilty for gunsmith.

I appreciate your optimism but no.

[Realeo]

Also, you can do VCA at L-1.

VCA relies on flip. With no flip, I cannot decide if it's wisdom of the crowd or scum sheeping.

Do you think AJ is towncleared now?

Empking, who talked nothing at LuV suddenly vote at Aj. What is this?
randomidget, suddenly unvoted when Bbmolla barked. What is this?

[Realeo]

Empking could easily be scum

Unless you are suggesting Empking bus Aj, I don't think so.

[Realeo]

Cop turns as guilty for gunsmith.

I appreciate your optimism but no.

I am not that concerned about this possibility. I wouldn't mind if this game eventually boiled down to dealing with a cop counterclaim.

I find your respond is irrelevant.

[Realeo]

Empking could easily be scum

Unless you are suggesting Empking bus Aj, I don't think so.

Why are you assuming AJ is scum

Did I?

[Realeo]

Empking could easily be scum

Unless you are suggesting Empking bus Aj, I don't think so.

Why are you assuming AJ is scum

Did I?

You used the word "bus", suggesting that both empking and AJ are scum.

No. I said Unless

you

[Realeo]

Empking could easily be scum

Unless you are suggesting Empking bus Aj, I don't think so.

Why are you assuming AJ is scum

Did I?

You used the word "bus", suggesting that both empking and AJ are scum.

No. I said Unless

you

Cop turns as guilty for gunsmith.

I appreciate your optimism but no.

I am not that concerned about this possibility. I wouldn't mind if this game eventually boiled down to dealing with a cop counterclaim.

I find your respond is irrelevant.

I think your objections to letting double cop do their thing are
1) not likely to be dangerous, and
2) not likely in the first place.

I am royally confused. There is only 1 cop in this game.

[Realeo]

Wah. I screw up the quote!

[Realeo]

I could flashwagon Leo.

*waves hand*

Wut? I am not your minion who always follow your opinion. If I dissapoint you for not voting Aj, I'm sorry.

[Realeo]

I could flashwagon Leo.

*waves hand*

Wut? I am not your minion who always follow your opinion. If I dissapoint you for not voting Aj, I'm sorry.

Nah. I could flashwagon you for 775.

Enlight me.

[Realeo]

Didn't shadonra already campaigned for your lynch from get go?

[Realeo]

Didn't shadonra already campaigned for your lynch from get go?

Way to cherrypick.

If he campainged from get to go, you can't accuse him buddying. He's simply consistent?

[Realeo]

Didn't shadonra already campaigned for your lynch from get go?

Way to cherrypick.

If he campainged from get to go, you can't accuse him buddying. He's simply consistent?

You don't follow what's being said very well.

The curse of foreign speaker.

[Realeo]

No Bbmolla?

[Realeo]

Is it just me or is randomidget NK is odd.....?

[Realeo]

Is Fate a serious player or a trolly but can switch to serious mode player?

[Realeo]

VOTE: Fate

I can back an Empking v Fate

[Realeo]

I'm getting hardcore scum pings from shadons last two posts

do you feel like explaining that

I do feel what Bbmolla's said so let me say it as ell

[1] Saying that setup speccing is bad

people are still doing setup spec on day 2

but trying to justify that he doesn't has any blood on his hand using setup speccing..

add to that that i don't think lynching day 1 in this setup is that great anyway.

[2] Saying the wagon is bad

yes, i still think the wagon was garbage. none of it really looked like bussing, and i think it's likely that 2 of those 4 are scum.

But never actually defended AJ. Keep in mind that pushing alternative wagon (ie. -Grey-) is different to defending AJ.

It all seems like you're Pontious Pilates trying to was his hand. "Oh, I did not crucify Jesus. So if it went wrong, you cannot blame me, but I don't like it, but I'm not going to do anything."

[Realeo]

I certainly won't take any of the blame for AJ getting lynched, considering that I tried to stop the wagon on him and was pushing a separate wagon.

We have philosophical different in this part, but fair enough.

[Realeo]

I am rereading shadonra's iso and I cannot still believe that he believes that his case at -Grey- is topkek.

[Realeo]

Realeo Im gonna need a LOT more on why youre voting me over Empking

I said that I want to clash you two.

If you noticed, I get triggered by Empking D1. You vote Empking D2. I am banking on you interogating Empking. I figured out that I can seal my townread at you based on how you act.

[Realeo]

Congratulation for -Grey-

for

most sophisticated prod-dodge

[Realeo]

-Grey-, are you scum losing your mojo after AJ lynch?

[Realeo]

VOTE: Empking

[Realeo]

Wow. I even forget to make a read at GE because I even forget about him

[Realeo]

*poke*

VOTE: BbMolla

[Realeo]

*poke*

VOTE: BbMolla

VOTE: Realeo

Why is Molla scum?

Given how I act across the game, why is it a confuzion for me to vote Molla? It's not the first time I vote Molla. Which part of me confuzes you?

I prefer you to be specific. given we're deep in D3. If you're just being broad, I allow you to read my iso.

[Realeo]

*poke*

VOTE: BbMolla

VOTE: Realeo

Why is Molla scum?

Given how I act across the game, why is it a confuzion for me to vote Molla? It's not the first time I vote Molla. Which part of me confuzes you?

I prefer you to be specific. given we're deep in D3. If you're just being broad, I allow you to read my iso.

Even without Empking flip, did Bbmolla behavior improves? I cannot imagine him become townier...

[Realeo]

Can it be a simple "I give up" vote? I did that a lot in EpicMaifa.com

[Realeo]

Can it be a simple "I give up" vote? I did that a lot in EpicMaifa.com

The only VCA that I did was at Aj v Bbmolla during D1 deadline battle. -Grey- and Fate was the first two before Empking was third. I cannot derive a conclusion from there because most people somehow flip to Bbmolla due to the "fuck you fuck you all" incident.

[Realeo]

When I say to, I mean from, obv.

[Realeo]

"fuck you fuck you all"

Now that I think about it.

UNVOTE:

The effectivity of the fuck fuck you all implicitly mean Bbmolla is town.

[Realeo]

So I apparently being attacked by -Grey- for something that I explained in the past?

Is there something that I need to explain? I cannot see -Grey-'s endgame.

[Realeo]

So I apparently being attacked by -Grey- for something that I explained in the past?

Is there something that I need to explain? I cannot see -Grey-'s endgame.

You can't read worth shit.

565 was me saying you were unlikely to be scum with Empking.

I thought you are being sarcastic, especially that you ask GE if I'm his scummate.

[Realeo]

Oh My God.

I get it!

Scum does not has chat~daychat or nightchat. They can't communicate!

The wording of the role PM is that

Vote - During the day phases, you may cast your vote to help decide to lynch a player. During the night phases, you may cast your vote to decide to kill one of the enemy players.

Why would they case vote if it's a night chat? I think there would be less bussing here.

[Realeo]

Lemme check the queue, but I don't think it would be bastard.

[Realeo]

1024 comes after 1020.

Exactly the point. Do you expect me to think that someone that makes 3 points against me and 1 point for me suddenly townread me? No, because I still have 3 outstanding point.

Why are we even have this stupid mini-war?

[Realeo]

Yo Gamma Emerald.

Can we see what's happening with your excel?

[Realeo]

No, because it's on my phone and I can't transfer data here from my phone
If you really want to see it I'll transcribe, but I haven't updated it recently. I may do so soon.

It's just interesting that you remotely make a breakthrough using past game as reference.

[Realeo]

I'm sorry, Realeo.

I don't know why I'm being so damned bitchy today.

[Realeo]

@--Grey--

At your case of Persivul, I understand what you mean of "coming from informed minority" especially from

that looks like scum trying to run a potential PR up to see if there's a claim ~Persivul

. What I'm having problem is why I cannot consider that to be a genuinely paranoid town?

[Realeo]

@Mod: If town reaches majority lynch and afterward we shoot the GS' gun. Does both lynch and GS shoot goes through or nay?

[Realeo]

I disagree entirely with the case on Persivul. I think it's bullshit. -Prism

I endorse this product.

[Realeo]

Not the whole case, just a big pillar. And even if it WAS my case, it would have been fairly substantive.

You know GE. I find it surprising that you don't understand what I mean by 'I endosre this product," especially that we play 5 games together.

[Realeo]

I disagree entirely with the case on Persivul. I think it's bullshit. -Prism

I endorse this product.

Let me explain y.

As I said, there are 2 possibility

[ 1 ] Persivul, the opportunistic scum
[ 2 ] Persivul, the observant town

I see no argument why it's [ 1 ]. Fate said because "Town would pause," but I find Persivul rebuttal satisfying. For [ 2 ], we see Persivul catch the "why people say the same thing?" which is a proof that he is capable to be observant.

I'm leaning to [ 2 ]

[Realeo]

I think just the shot.

[Realeo]

I really want to say that Grey and Reflektor are scum but no one seems to make sense as the third; I think that means I should reevaluate my reads again. Rereading is gonna be a chore...

What is you with Reflektor? I look at your iso and I realize that unlike --Grey--, I don't get full message of you scumreading Reflektor?

[Realeo]

VOTE: Gamma

[Realeo]

We have gun?

[Realeo]

I'd like it if Realeo unvoted

If he does, I'll just vote you again.

And I'm fine with your vote being on me, because you're scum.

Start fucking explain things! Why --Grey-- scum? The only reason I see is "It's confrontational"?

[Realeo]

Medea. Please keep your gun for D4.

[Realeo]

Medea I have a question: what's up with the countdown in your sig?

VOTE: Gamma
OMGUS so hard!

I'm not even sure if you're scum yet, but ok
VOTE: Grey

VCA, my own personal suspicions

Also mafSilver makes your orange (which looks green now) a pain on the eyes

I don't know about you, but psychologically speaking, there is something called diversion. It's a classic tactic used by criminals where they respond to the question and add something as diversion.

"I told you that I didn't kill him, now can you make this handcuff loose, it's too tight?"

It's a good vote.

[Realeo]

Nah. There's a good limit dividing having a good time of mafia and

fillering

. You cross the limit.

[Realeo]

Can we have another case from you GE why --Grey--is scum. Your proof only comes to D3. Do you actually have an excel to use? With a convenient Excel, I expect better case.

[Realeo]

Talk about it. You only talk about Empking self-voting.

[Realeo]

Talk about it. You only talk about Empking self-voting.

[Realeo]

--Grey-- voted Pers in 449 and unvoted in 451 because in 450, Persivul responded.

[Realeo]

Why the fuck does everyone think pers is scum but he's not lynched yet

It's like randomidget. People are testing the water to see if they can score a mislynch.

[Realeo]

I'm going to prod dodge as I decide if Fate is a stupid tunnel or a genius gambit. However, given the fact that

I also thought Fate is roleblocked

(but didn't mention it because it should be obvious) I'm leaning against stupid tunnel or stupid gambit.

[Realeo]

I really want to say that Grey and Reflektor are scum but no one seems to make sense as the third; I think that means I should reevaluate my reads again. Rereading is gonna be a chore...

What is you with Reflektor? I look at your iso and I realize that unlike --Grey--, I don't get full message of you scumreading Reflektor?

Can I request answer for this? If the momentum is "We're not lynching GE", I can see me start building a wagon for you?

I find your stubborness of "Reflketor---Grey--" is a red flag.

[Realeo]

@Fate: If you're not roleblocked, where is your gun guilty report?

[Realeo]

I mean, you're not X-shot GS right? Which means you have unlimited ability to investigate.

[Realeo]

Realeo, I'm having trouble parsing your ISO for where your strongest scum reads are outside of GE. Can you please rank the following from town to scum: {shadonra, Persivul, BBMolla, Grey, Reflektor}?

--PA

Ranking them is a bit tricky.

shadonra : Tossing around "tunnel town" and "stubborn scum". D1 + D2, the former. D3, the latter

Persivul : Pretty sure I never say anything bad about him

BBMolla: Only in D3 I re-consider him being town.

Grey: Good question! I don't know. If you read D2, I was bugged with him. Still not resolved.

Reflektor : At the beginning, I feel bad, but I feel better now.

It's more to Persivul - Reflektor - {some kind of weird ranking algorithm} - shandonra

[Realeo]

No, I think scum DID use their RB on the claimed VIGILANTE

How is that not a basic assumption of optimal play? Run it by me

I consider Gunsmith (which is just a perfect cop, in this situation) stronger than Vig in this situation. I didn't really think anyone would think vig was stronger, but if that's not true then I'll withdraw my objection.

See, you're ignoring me.

[Realeo]

Since then it's more of a confbias thing...

Then wky fucking stay with it?

[Realeo]

Molla could be scum, but I'm really not getting the scum vibe from him (I did not meta him, though).

Would you help me and explain why you don't get scum vibe from him? My reason to townread Molla is as thick as a hair.

[Realeo]

BBMolla: Only in D3 I re-consider him being town.

Why? Is this a meta read, because I don't see anything townie about him. I don't really see him as scummy either, and at this point in the game, that's somewhat scummy in itself.

Bbmolla fuck incident makes me wonder.

People suddenly unvoted by people due to "fuck you incident." My question is what happened? I thought if it's town, people will still bite him. I hyphotize that the reason people unvoted is scum scared.

[Realeo]

People suddenly unvoted by people due to "fuck you incident." My question is what happened? I thought if it's town, people will still bite him. I hyphotize that the reason people unvoted is scum scared.

I'm not following, and what's the connection to D3?

It only came to me at D3.

[Realeo]

Am I missing something?

Is it because of GE never mentioned about Bbmolla or the fuck incindent with Empking?

[Realeo]

Am I missing something?

Is it because of GE never mentioned about Bbmolla or the fuck incindent with Empking?

Ah.... I'm thinking it without processing it.

VOTE: Bbmolla

L - 1

[Realeo]

UNVOTE:

I mean yeah, he's scum... but we have work to do.

Try Iso shandonra and see how reacts with Empking in D1.

[Realeo]

Empking could easily be scum. I think nothing of randommidget unvoting, because I also unvoted at that time.

It's funny how he doesn't tunnel like he did at -Grey-

2) I'm reading Gamma's ISO. I think that if both Realeo and Grey are town, Gamma is scum. I think I agree with Pers that Realeo townslipped, but I still think Grey is scum.

Hmmm. Interesting logic...

You see a lot of shandonra mentioning of "I think bbmolla is scum....but maybe not." A consistent attitude with Empking and GE.

[Realeo]

Aj The Epic - -Grey-, BBMolla, Empking, randomidget (L-2)
is this really a town wagon? really???

I don't see scum!shadonra making this post, even if I was the one being shaded.

Too much potential for unexpected results from town scrutiny.

Explain "Too much potential for unexpected results from town scrutiny."

[Realeo]

Persivul-Bbmolla

[Realeo]

Aj The Epic - -Grey-, BBMolla, Empking, randomidget (L-2)
is this really a town wagon? really???

I don't see scum!shadonra making this post, even if I was the one being shaded.

Too much potential for unexpected results from town scrutiny.

Explain "Too much potential for unexpected results from town scrutiny."

To be specific, what kind of "too much potential" you're talking about?

[Realeo]

Whenever you put information out for town to scrutinize, you take the risk that information will ultimately be parsed in an unexpected manner.

Scum tends to minimize the risk of such scrutiny by not drawing attention directly to their buddies the way shadonra did to Empking/(BBMolla) in that post.

If we're talking about scum!Grey, that makes sense.

If we're talking about scum!shandonra, eh no. I don't believe shandonra is that meticulous. I mean, regardless of alignment, a player, who admits in a confbias, but still push his confbias, is not that meticulous enough.

[Realeo]

I can do either molla or shandonra.

[Realeo]

VOTE: shan

[Realeo]

GE's Iso is full of wifom shit. =/

I can see {Persivul,BBMolla} dying in this Lylo.

I am convinced that Reflektor is town.

[Realeo]

I'm going to act that BBMolla is lynched now and I would be more focused on who between Persivul and -Grey- is shkum.

[Realeo]

Leaning towards {BBMolla,-Grey}

[Realeo]

All I can say is you better be convincing Nach or we lose.

NO. YOU BETTER be convincing me or we lose.

[Realeo]

Because I see that there are 2 ways

[ 1 ] You're really VT having mental breakdown

[ 2 ] Your scum, drawing lynch on you, and banking on -Grey- winning the game for scum.

The problem is, you still insist Persivul lynch, so [ 1 ] is less likely. When a VT is really having mental breakdown, they usually can't generate read because they're in a very critical mental breakdown that the only thing they seek is death. That is not how I charactherize you.

[Realeo]

Bbmolla, I find it confusing.

If you want to self-lynch, why you want Persivul?

If Persivul flips town, you are also a Lylo trap.

[Realeo]

Either way, I think Percival's hammer was scum as fuck and prefer to see him swing today.

VOTE: -Grey-

Isn't shandora is also your choice? You're both wrong. I don't remember you're being so

blamey

in D1. In D1, we mislynched Aj and just let it go. That's a different attitude in D4.

[Realeo]

Bbmolla, I find it confusing.

If you want to self-lynch, why you want Persivul?

If Persivul flips town, you are also a Lylo trap.

Uh... we're already IN LYLO.

The point is that BbMolla can score a mislynch and AtE at the same time.

[Realeo]

Nope. I checked the vote count. My statement is factual.

[Realeo]

why are you so convinced of Reflektor being town?

It's a weird question set by a player who also townread Reflektor in D4.

I find it weird that you didn't ask the more important question, why I townread Persivul?

[Realeo]

@-Grey-: I am under the understanding that a lynch is a consensus. If it's a mislynch, it's a mistake for everyone in the wagon (and everyone who didn't wagon it, but less relevant.)

[Realeo]

who didn't defend the person being wagoned.

[Realeo]

I mean, since when Mafia becomes an individual sport?

[Realeo]

If it's Persivul/Realeo, why do I need to mess up with the game? This game is set up to lynch Bbmolla. All I and Persivul needs to do is wait for the hammer at Bbmolla and we would be laughing together.

[Realeo]

My dear, Occam Razor.

I can either

[ 1 ] Play a tunneled town,
[ 2 ] Play a white knighting town.

I mean, I am being townread by Reflektor and -Grey-. This game is locked scum game for scum!Realeo. [ 1 ] is the best option for scum!Realeo.

[Realeo]

I find it annoying that nobody didn't ask why I townread Persivul.

[Realeo]

Please, someone asks me about it. I have a mental draft for a wall of post.

[Realeo]

Aw. No one wants to know why Persivul is town. Shame. =/

[Realeo]

Ha! Silly!

Blitz voting is only a valid thing for L-1 lylo vote. If you think scum can blitz in a 5 ways Lylo game, you played too many EpicMafia.

[Realeo]

If my knowledge of site meta is wrong, I am willing to unvote

UNVOTE:

[Realeo]

I thought such thing is only valid in 3 way lylo.

[Realeo]

Myeah. I admit defeate. Can't argue on site meta.

[Realeo]

In EpicMafia, everyone is online. Everyone can blitz any wagon.

In Mafiascum, not everyone is online.

[Realeo]

No. I was telling why my mind

was

wrong.

[Realeo]

Are we going to repeat this again?

We are fighting. Call each other idiot/can't reading. One of us will apologize for being too harsh while the other will post a picture of a smiling grandma.

[Realeo]

Aren't your vote on Persivul can be blitzed?

[Realeo]

I mean, why your vote is superior than mine?

[Realeo]

Also, town wouldn't cast a vote over simple suspicion in LyLo the way you voted me.

Wait. You thought my vote is on you is

all about

that.

VOTE: -Grey-

I was thinking that "don't vote me" is just a healthy game advice, hence why I decide to hear you despite I tunnel you.

[Realeo]

Leaning towards {BBMolla,-Grey}

My dear, I called you scum like 12 ~ 24 hours ago.

[Realeo]

I have case why Persivul is town. You have case why Persivul is scum.

Let us explain our case, deal?

[Realeo]

I take that as a yes

Spoiler: Case

Step 1: Why Reflektor is town?

First, we need to analyze GE's gambit.

Not his claiming one. The claiming one is full of wifom. We can use that for confirmation but not for POE. Can't use that.

If you remember, GE said this.

Reflektor, I see you online, unvote me

I'd like it if Realeo unvoted

Let us remember what happened when GE said this

+ GE gets to L-2 or L-1

+ GE then ask people to unvote

+ GE then gambit

Here's the question:

Why GE asked Realeo and Reflektor to unvote, but not others player like -Grey-?

The answer is at the chronology.

GE is at L-2 or L-1. If you remember, he said

btw I'm probably going offline soon, so pls unvote me now

So he is actually expecting to gambit soon. However, for the gambit to works, he needs to survive the offline first. It would be a disaster for GE to be hammered when he is offline. You can control the scum voting you to avoid hammer, but not town.

So that's why Reflektor is town.

It is however, not enough to decide if -Grey- is scum. Assuming town!-Grey-, town!-Grey- maybe genuinely tunneling and GE may think it doesn't worth it to shoo him away.

Step 2: Why Persivul is town?

From D3, Persivul get-go voted Gamma Emerald and didn't blink.

I've been holding off on low-content posters under the theory (which looks to be correct) that in this setup, town PRs are as likely to coast as scum are. Now that PRs are accounted for:

VOTE: Gamma

Now some people may say "That's bussing!" but

[ 1 ] Bussing is only done to get town credit (for example. -Grey- pushing BbMolla to get towncredit for the 3 way lylo)

How does exactly Persivul gets town credit here?

There is no such thing as bussing for free. The problem is that Persivul did not play the town leader position or case pusher to actually milk town credit from pushing. Let us remember that currently, that Persivul voted from get-go. There is NO pressure to bus. I mean, he actively avoiding Empking lynch until Fate's report, why can't he do the same with Gamma?

To add it, if Persivul is bussing (and planned it from night thread) the next question would be why Gamma has to gambit?

That gambit is an act of desperation~showing signs of unpreparedness. Doesn't click with a get-go bussing. Furthermore, such gambit render Persivul attempt to get town credit useless, from "Persivul, the town who pushed Gamma" into "Welp, he is obvious. It's an easy task there"
[ 2 ] Persivul had foreshadowedd that he do not really scumread lurkness due to setup danger. Now the setup is no longer dangerous due to all PR is accounted.

He is simply being consistent

Your turn.

[Realeo]

Oh no. I make that for Reflektor.

I expect Persivul would vote -Grey- and Bbmolla voted me, it's a 2-2, no blitzing since both mafia is on the wagon and Reflketor is going to hammer for the game.

I want yours because I need comparison.

[Realeo]

*BBmolla voted Persivul.

[Realeo]

Yeah. Speak like a true Republican.

[Realeo]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next thing you say is "Global warming is BS because politicians are twisting the shit out of what actually happened to spin a narrative."

[Realeo]

Reported for harassment for bringing ogi into the game.

That's scum desperation, folks.

How ironic.

[Realeo]

A mitigatory action has been done to prevent another incident

[Realeo]

Is the game is over?

-Grey- accused Persivul scum, but it wasn't Persivul that quick hammered, it was Reflektor.

[Realeo]

Wait. Death post? The game continues?

[Realeo]

I think it's an excellent setup once you stop "Omg! Town is going to die" and actually play it.

Although I think roleblocker is a better choice than doctor.