OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #1250 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:34 pm

Post by Realeo »

Now that you point that out, that is a confuzion. I checked his iso and he didn't pursue Desperado at all?
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I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?
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Post Post #1251 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:49 pm

Post by Regfan »

I found SAJs interaction with Kop around ~ and to come across as slightly townie. I like Aliseas vote on AH and scum read on the MariaR section of Desperados posting in . I like Alisea being the first person to explicity come out calling and pushing MariaR as a traitor in and to make more sense as tin-foil town, if scum believed it they probably don't draw attention to it and push it. Find her attitude around and to make more sense from town around deadline than scum and the start of her push on TB in does fit as tin-foil town but sadly does ignore how things played out; AH's comment about not actually intending to push TB was just a a statement made a week after starting it while maintaining his vote on TB, it's him attempting to keep TB in the pool post flip. I think the reaction test re; the "Hammer" by Hans from ~ to is bad play but don't find it to be a scum tell at all. Still irritated reading Aliseas interactions with me around ~ onwards, the inability to grasp the situation logically and the sheer amount of stretching used to maintain the scum read on TB in posts like does make some sense as scum but also by town that's being really stubborn and not reassessing based on new information. All up I'm leaning towards that slot being town for a few reasons and am hoping whoever replaces in can really help solidify that read.
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Post Post #1252 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:02 pm

Post by Regfan »

I only have Dunn to read through and then I'm up to date. I'm currently at a situation where I feel pretty good about Realeo, Alisea and ThingBig being town and to a slightly less extent Gamma (He gets resolved in the night anyway). I still lean SH on the townier side but he's certainly not a town read I'd take to the bank or anything of the sort and would like to see some more original content from him today that doesn't involve ThingBig. There's enough inside Desperados play that I'm not particularly interested in lynching him today and have him fairly null but if anyone has a strong scum read on him I'm willing to hear a case on him. I'm leaning towards wanting to lynch Kop over Dave, with Dave while I dislike a few of his stances and find scum motivation behind his voting record his reaction to my suspicion is making me second guess the read whereas with Kop there's nothing inside his ISO that I'm finding as him genuinely scumhunting or trying to game solve, there's analysis but no conclusions drawn from them in several instances.

@Desperado -
Dunn touched on it himself but what I was trying to get at from you was realisation that your clearance or removal from the vote pool today on Dave makes little sense. He never actually
pushed
you in regards to the traitor claim like Alisea did and almost everything he brought up in regards to it was a copy of what Alisea had said but signicantly later. The extent of his actions was a vote in and a comment in which isn't implausible for scum to do at all, I can see and agree to a degree that what Alisea did may come across as town to you but can't see that from Dave and think you attempting to link them under the same umbrella there is short-sighted.
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Post Post #1253 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:14 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 1239, Desperado wrote:Ali, Dave, and AH all pushed me openly as traitor. A wagon never materialized. Why?
^This is another big reason I think ThinkBig is scum. Ali was his biggest townread for the entirety of D1 but he literally never even mentions me w/r/t being a traitor.
Why do you suppose that is?
A wagon likely never materialized because the push on you was based on reasoning that resembles what I take out every Monday night and was never going to be logic that a lynch would actually go through based on. You attempting to suggest that ThinkBig not voting you based on that over his actual scum-reads that were based on stronger reasoning makes him more likely mafia is a joke dude, an absolute joke. Consider it this way; what's stronger reasoning? 1) That AH's push on TB was him construing every single action in a negative sense ignoring the context of them or the fact that other players had dome the same action and pushing this with a level of confidence that makes little sense as town, 2) That TB had read Dunns play in regards to AH to make sense as partners and disliked the buddying/defence that he read between them or 3) That MariaR's post looked a bit like a traitor soft. The answer is 1) and 2) are much more reasonable votes then 3) and he never really even believed given his only mention in regards to it is one line inside . You're attributing something to TB here that never really was there or makes any sense and I need to try and evaluate if you're got to this wrong direction as town or mafia, you elaborating on thought processes in detail will considerably help me with that if you're town.
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Post Post #1254 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:29 pm

Post by Superhans »

@realo
In regards to my semi-naked vote on Gamma, read my interactions with Gamma beforehand.
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Post Post #1255 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:07 am

Post by Kop »

In post 1148, Dunnstral wrote:Uh, Antihero was traitor? not a good?

Surely if the two of you are suggesting that thinkbig moved off of antihero because he knew he was the traitor, you can point to where thinkbig would have known that antihero was a traitor? Some kind of tell, or soft, or the way Ah acted?

Coming out hard on a maf buddy doesn't scream "traitor" to me.
I think I may have misread the whole Mafia PM's. :facepalm:

So on that said, thinkbig may be town after all. After rereading the PM's set out in first page, I don't forsee a traitor coming out that hard, now that I know the traitor only knows who the the mafia are, but mafia don't know who the traitor is.
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Post Post #1256 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:11 am

Post by Regfan »

I find that hard to believe Kop given you've played this exact setup before and made the following comment in this post:
But scum don't know who the traitor is though? There is the chance that they could end up night killing him, which is a risk because it doesn't help them that way though.

I know I was a mafia traitor on another site, but ended up getting night killed by my own team mates day one, they didn't know I was the traitor.
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Post Post #1257 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:13 am

Post by Regfan »

Also given this post of your in this very thread earlier this game;
In post 212, Kop wrote:
In post 210, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
In post 200, Dunnstral wrote:I don't want to lynch Realeo
I want to lynch realeo. He's used doctor and cop emojis already, I think he's trying to setup fakeclaim crumbs and needs rope
In post 211, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:also if maf didn't recruit the traitor he could be making obvious PR crumbs to try to get his team to shoot him and recruit him if he's the traitor

These are baseless accusations. They hold no truth or any argument that can hold any water, using them emojis doesn't exactly have a warrant to lynch him, based on that.

As for your second point, that's wrong. If I'm recalling correctly, if they shoot the traitor, he dies. I once had the traitor role and mafia shot me, and I died. I didn't join them.
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Post Post #1258 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:56 am

Post by Kop »

In post 1256, Regfan wrote:I find that hard to believe Kop given you've played this exact setup before and made the following comment in this post:
But scum don't know who the traitor is though? There is the chance that they could end up night killing him, which is a risk because it doesn't help them that way though.

I know I was a mafia traitor on another site, but ended up getting night killed by my own team mates day one, they didn't know I was the traitor.
I totally forgot that I had already researched this point and got side drawn from it.

Yes whilst I agree I have played as a traitor before, however it wasn't in this exact setup. This setup is slightly different to the one I participated on another site.
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Post Post #1259 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:14 am

Post by Regfan »

Yes but your line inside is responding directly to Ssbm talking about traitor crumbing to the scum team to get the scum team to work out who the traitor is, there's over 100 posts inside this game where people discuss the possibility of the traitor trying to signal the mafia team, how is it possible to read through this thread properly and never once realise that mafia didn't know traitor? That would mean you've read this thread without actually reading peoples posts (For instance Aliseas push on MariaR crumbing traitor, Desperados case that he thinks the "excuses" section was a crumbing occurring. Like I'm trying to work out how this could be a genuine belief you had rather than you attempting to force a dumbtell to be town read.
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Post Post #1260 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:23 am

Post by Kop »

http://www.footballforums.net/threads/m ... es.253556/

That's the game I'm talking about. That's the only time I've played where a traitor has been in play.

I've ran setups a few times with a traitor inserted, but it was done differently to what it was here.
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Post Post #1261 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:31 am

Post by Regfan »

Yes but in the game you linked traitor knew mafia and mafia didn't know traitor, that's generally the norm for the role which was also the case last time you played this setup. I find it really hard to believe that anyone that read this thread would think that mafia could know the traitor given lots of cases and arguments are based entirely around AH's partners not knowing him and him trying to signal them. Like when you read posts like Alisea stating that she thought MariaR was crumbing traitor or read posts like Dave suggesting that Desperados predecessor had claimed traitor or read posts with people tying TB & AH together stating that they think AH was signalling TB through the push what were you thinking?

Like there's nothing I can find based on your history with traitors, your history with this setup or your prior posts in this thread that make your stance on you thinking mafia knowing traitor makes any sense to me.
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Post Post #1262 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:12 am

Post by Kop »

In post 1261, Regfan wrote:Yes but in the game you linked traitor knew mafia and mafia didn't know traitor, that's generally the norm for the role which was also the case last time you played this setup. I find it really hard to believe that anyone that read this thread would think that mafia could know the traitor given lots of cases and arguments are based entirely around AH's partners not knowing him and him trying to signal them. Like when you read posts like Alisea stating that she thought MariaR was crumbing traitor or read posts like Dave suggesting that Desperados predecessor had claimed traitor or read posts with people tying TB & AH together stating that they think AH was signalling TB through the push what were you thinking?

Like there's nothing I can find based on your history with traitors, your history with this setup or your prior posts in this thread that make your stance on you thinking mafia knowing traitor makes any sense to me.
I didn't take any notice to any of the crumbs that were mentioned. I've never seen a traitor crumb to his fellow partners, and don't honestly believe traitors would without bringing attention onto themselves. So if there was any or anyone who believed were crumbs, I just didn't believe that it would be genuine crumbs purely because of that reason, people picking up on them.

In the game that I played as traitor or the games that I ran where I included the traitor role, not one crumb was left. In this game here alone, any crumb that is left that I think coul d be the traitor I ignored because I just don't buy it as a crumb to his partners that he is the traitor.
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Post Post #1263 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:05 am

Post by Desperado »

In post 1252, Regfan wrote:@Desperado - Dunn touched on it himself but what I was trying to get at from you was realisation that your clearance or removal from the vote pool today on Dave makes little sense. He never actually pushed you in regards to the traitor claim like Alisea did and almost everything he brought up in regards to it was a copy of what Alisea had said but signicantly later. The extent of his actions was a vote in Post 540 and a comment in Post 645 which isn't implausible for scum to do at all, I can see and agree to a degree that what Alisea did may come across as town to you but can't see that from Dave and think you attempting to link them under the same umbrella there is short-sighted.
OK so you've got traitorAH, townAlisae, scumDave, and Dunn all either voting me/pushing me as traitor. Why doesn't that wagon gain more traction again?
;)
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Post Post #1264 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:07 am

Post by Desperado »

I just don't understand why Dave scum would push and vote me as the traitor, or how a wagon didn't form on me if his buddy wasn't already pushing that theory with him.
;)
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Post Post #1265 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:08 am

Post by Desperado »

In post 1253, Regfan wrote:A wagon likely never materialized because the push on you was based on reasoning that resembles what I take out every Monday night and was never going to be logic that a lynch would actually go through based on. You attempting to suggest that ThinkBig not voting you based on that over his actual scum-reads that were based on stronger reasoning makes him more likely mafia is a joke dude, an absolute joke. Consider it this way; what's stronger reasoning? 1) That AH's push on TB was him construing every single action in a negative sense ignoring the context of them or the fact that other players had dome the same action and pushing this with a level of confidence that makes little sense as town, 2) That TB had read Dunns play in regards to AH to make sense as partners and disliked the buddying/defence that he read between them or 3) That MariaR's post looked a bit like a traitor soft. The answer is 1) and 2) are much more reasonable votes then 3) and he never really even believed given his only mention in regards to it is one line inside Post 570. You're attributing something to TB here that never really was there or makes any sense and I need to try and evaluate if you're got to this wrong direction as town or mafia, you elaborating on thought processes in detail will considerably help me with that if you're town.
No, I'm suggesting that ThinkBig didn't even CONSIDER his
top townread's main read
. He never even says "nah I don't think Desp is the traitor Ali."


Why not???
;)
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Post Post #1266 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:15 am

Post by davesaz »

Pedit: in response to Kop's post and the conversation leading to it.

So many fallacies
There are more games with traitor than the ones you've played
Not all setups with a traitor have the possibility of a recruit
There could be players who have never seen the role and don't know how it "should" be played (according to your preconceived notions)
There could be players who think differently about the role and play it differently than "standard"
There could be a situation where a player wants to play differently than they would otherwise

Several of you are missing something entirely. Scum would want to know who the traitor is, but my opinion they have no reasonable motivation to post anything about it. (not necessarily though, my last point above applies here)
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Post Post #1267 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:19 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1264, Desperado wrote:I just don't understand why Dave scum would push and vote me as the traitor, or how a wagon didn't form on me if his buddy wasn't already pushing that theory with him.
Reinforcing my other post -- why would scum anybody push anyone as traitor? Ideally they'd want town to overlook the traitor possibility, as the true function of a traitor is to slip by even if all the scum are caught.
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Post Post #1268 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:21 am

Post by davesaz »

There are much better ways for scum to push a mislynch. They should use anything but traitor as an excuse. I honestly can't see how this is even a thing! Yes, townie me saw something which happened to be wrong, and I pushed it, townies do that all the time. :roll:
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Post Post #1269 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:26 am

Post by grapes »

DAY 2 VC 006


Kop ( 3 ) -
(Dunnstral, Desperado, Regfan)
ThinkBig ( 2 ) -
(Alisae, davesaz)
Gamma Emerald ( 1 ) -
(Kop)

Not Voting ( 4 ) -
(Superhans, Gamma Emerald, Realeo, ThinkBig)

Six to lynch.
(expired on 2017-01-21 05:24:02) remain until deadline.

Please refrain from using provable randomness -- even just for emoticons.
Thinkbig v/la until Monday.
Gamma Emerald v/la until Tuesday.

Seeking a replacement for Alisae.
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Post Post #1270 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:39 am

Post by davesaz »

It looks like Kop is painted into a corner.
His scumread Gamma claimed a town PR but his vote is still parked there.
The wagon on TB has wound down so it's pointless for him to jump there now.
He sees people nibbling at me but not voting. Desperado doesn't seem viable, most people are townreading {Superhans, Realeo, Dunnstral} and Regfan is conf.

Plenty of scum motivation for waiting it out instead of digging a deeper hole by trying to press something that is implausible.

VOTE: Kop
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Post Post #1271 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:46 pm

Post by Superhans »

In post 1270, davesaz wrote:It looks like Kop is painted into a corner.
His scumread Gamma claimed a town PR but his vote is still parked there.
The wagon on TB has wound down so it's pointless for him to jump there now.
He sees people nibbling at me but not voting. Desperado doesn't seem viable, most people are townreading {Superhans, Realeo, Dunnstral} and Regfan is conf.

Plenty of scum motivation for waiting it out instead of digging a deeper hole by trying to press something that is implausible.

VOTE: Kop
Want you to know that I'm not townreading you right now Davesaz. You're trying to use the fact that people
aren't
voting you as proof you're not Scum. I'm not however scum reading to nearly the same extent as a player like kop.

VOTE: Kop
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Post Post #1272 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:51 pm

Post by ThinkBig »

^That should be L-1. Please do not hammer until I get back and am able to provide some thoughts before the day ends.
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
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Post Post #1273 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:22 pm

Post by Regfan »

@Kop - RE: I'm not asking if you were looking for traitor crumbs yourself. I'm asking how you didnt notice that majority of peoples conversations were about people looking for them. When reading the thread you didn't think this was weird given your stance on mafia knowing them at the time? Like given your last few posts either you''re town that genuinely didn't know how the mafia team worked or you're scum that's trying to throw out a dumb tell to get town read and excuse your TB scum read post. Explain how the first of the two scenarios is the one that's the case here and that I should be unvoting you and looking elsewhere.
In post 1263, Desperado wrote:OK so you've got traitorAH, townAlisae, scumDave, and Dunn all either voting me/pushing me as traitor. Why doesn't that wagon gain more traction again?
Because it's based on really bad reasoning that others didn't buy? Because a few of the scum team were already voting you? Could be several things. I don't get where you're going with this.
In post 1264, Desperado wrote:I just don't understand why Dave scum would push and vote me as the traitor, or how a wagon didn't form on me if his buddy wasn't already pushing that theory with him.
I don't see a heavy belief that you were the traitor inside his posts like I do from Alisea, this could be because he was less active and forceful with his pushes but it's also plausible he was just taking an easy vote by copying Aliseas reasoning without actually thinking you're the traitor; this isn't something that's implausible to consider. Just don't understand how this singular action is something you're ruling him out as a lynch for.
In post 1265, Desperado wrote:No, I'm suggesting that ThinkBig didn't even CONSIDER his
top townread's main read
. He never even says "nah I don't think Desp is the traitor Ali." Why not???
/Headdesk. Majority of players don't alter their reads because their town reads have them, especially someone that's as inexperienced as ThingBig. This is pretty bad point given who you're talking about.
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Post Post #1274 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Post by Regfan »

Goon Cop
Roleblocker
Tracker

I like most of Daves reasoning behind voting Kop in , he's not wrong in that Kop keeping his vote on Gamma and not commenting on the claim has scum motivation; he doesn't know which avenue he can push as scum whereas I think towns more likely to try and gamesolve here. If Kop fliips scum Dave certainly looks much better from where I'm sitting. And if Kop does flip scum SH deserves to be looked at.


-----
Okay mechanical post time;

1) If we have a
vig you have to shoot tonight
- Shooting confirms your existence without needing to claim, shooting also takes us from evens to odds meaning your shot gives us an extra mslynch, not takes one away.

2) If we have a
BG you should be on Gamma tonight
- If Gamma dies without a BG dying for him then there's confirmation that there's no BG inside this game without needing a PR to claim, if a BG dies in the night it almost confirms that Gamma is town given that it's unlikely mafia are taking a pot shot at the night and hitting the BG that way. Doing so also means we have another report from Gamma for sure.

3) If Kop flips mafia the tracker & roleblocker becomes a full cop in that whoever they target becomes clear if a kill occurs / no visit.
If Kop flips scum and we have a roleblocker or tracker it should go on a scum read.
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