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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:54 pm

Post by MathBlade »

ETA is around 2 hours plus or minus 30 minutes.
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:56 pm

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Tell you what, I won't claim until I'm ready for you to shoot me. There are things I now want to discuss with certain players, so it's up to you whether you want to allow that discussion to happen or not.

If it makes you feel better, you are included in the 'certain players' by virtue of you being town, but I no longer want to argue with you about your read on me. You do what you want there, I don't care.
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:59 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 822, Almost50 wrote:OK.. HOLD ON YOUR SHOT, MATH.

I will -once again- try to not be a total ass about it. We clearly still hold the majority here, so it should be a Town motivated draft even if scum are trying to direct it.

IMPORTANT: NO OTHER OPTIONS ARE VALID BUT THE ONES YOU ARE GIVEN BELOW.

1- Draft MariaR with Pepto as the backup pick
2- Draft Titus with Tywin as the backup pick


I vote (2), and I know at least Math agrees, but I'll let them cast their vote on their own. (And especially so when the alternative is Titus whom Math is also suspicious of, so for Math it's a choice between 2 evils. Sorry about that. :( ).

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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:03 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

In post 822, Almost50 wrote:OK.. HOLD ON YOUR SHOT, MATH.

I will -once again- try to not be a total ass about it. We clearly still hold the majority here, so it should be a Town motivated draft even if scum are trying to direct it.

IMPORTANT: NO OTHER OPTIONS ARE VALID BUT THE ONES YOU ARE GIVEN BELOW.

1- Draft MariaR with Pepto as the backup pick
2- Draft Titus with Tywin as the backup pick


I vote (2), and I know at least Math agrees, but I'll let them cast their vote on their own. (And especially so when the alternative is Titus whom Math is also suspicious of, so for Math it's a choice between 2 evils. Sorry about that. :( ).

~A50
I vote 1.

Dodge, I town read them. They seem to genuinely have town's best interests in mind. Effort alone isn't alignment indicitive, but the kind of effort they are putting forward is.
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

@Dodge:

You may also vote on whom we draft. If you do flip Town as you claim it will counted. If you flip Scum though it will be voided. How abou that?

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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:24 pm

Post by malpascp »

Keeping MariaR and Pepto on SD is the towniest move for them. If that leads to dead scum on SD, it also decreases the chance of scum to be drafted into RAW. So no, don't draft the masons.

Pedit: tbh I also don't know who to draft from SD, will take another look at their thread
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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

In post 828, Kmd4390 wrote:Dodge, I town read them. They seem to genuinely have town's best interests in mind. Effort alone isn't alignment indicitive, but the kind of effort they are putting forward is.
I don't agree with the idea of effort, because there is a lot of busy work that can come from either alignment. Again, they may be compelled to do the busy work because they are the manager, so it's not as bad as they could be. I'm also pissed by you know what, so maybe my judgment is clouded a little.

There is something I've been thinking about since the beginning of the game, but haven't brought it up because set-up speculation isn't scumhunting. Let me bounce the thought off of you anyway. Massive and Almost Chara have to be the same alignment. This actually only occurred to me a few days ago, and if I ramble while I explain this I apologize. For much of the game I thought that they would be opposite alignments, because of two reasons. One, flavorwise in WWE usually one brand's GM is a face and the other heel. The second reason was because the dichotomy between the two would be natural to want to put into your game. We like symmetry in mafia...but anyway it occurred to me that would be extremely bad for balance. The scum GM drafts all the scum, and then it's guaranteed one brand ends with a scum win, one with a town win. (I don't want to get in specifics). To make a long point short, opposite alignment managers is probably bad game design. I'm relatively confident they are either both town or both scum. Both have their merits from a design standpoint. If both are town, it subverts the opposite alignment suggestion, and it ensures the managers don't have any extra information to work with. Both being scum also has merits if we make the assumption it's a 10-3 game. They can't draft each other (at least I don't think so) so it would make it slightly harder for them to draft their way to a scum victory. It also makes the managers competitors in a way both being town (or having opposite alignments) doesn't. (and make it so each brand has to lynch at least one member of the scum team)

I know I threw up a bunch of words there that have little relevance to our current situation, but I thought it important to put it out there anyway. Well actually in theory if massive becomes a strong townread than it strengthens Chara as a town player too, and vise versa if massive is scumming it up. I'm not sue how I feel about Chara overall, other than I wouldn't mark them as a legit townread.
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 831, malpascp wrote:Keeping MariaR and Pepto on SD is the towniest move for them. If that leads to dead scum on SD, it also decreases the chance of scum to be drafted into RAW. So no, don't draft the masons.

Pedit: tbh I also don't know who to draft from SD, will take another look at their thread
No you won't. It's an either/or, and your vote counts towards Titus being the draft pick, so it's 2-2 now.

The reason I had to make it an either/or and not an open vote is if you look at who is lynchable and who is not so far you will find:

McMenno @ 3-0 for their lynch
LUV @ 3-1
Mal & Dodge @ 2-0 each
Math @ 2-1
Nero @ 2-2
Pep & Kmd @ 1-1 each
Almost & Vifam @ 0-1 each
and Columbo not getting a mention yet.

Notice anything?? The MAXIMUM we can get an agreement is THREE (out of 11 players) and that's with TWO votes each.

You may also check yesterday's draft discussions with almost every single person having their own preference and some threatening one thing or another if we draft X or Y.

In sum, if we consult everyone and let them choose from a pool of 9 wrestlers alive in SD we are likely to get a pool of 6-8 picks with the leading pick having no more than 2 votes for. I hope you understand what I'm getting at, but hanks for the feedback anyway :)

P-edit:

@Dodge:

How about your read on massive? Do you have one?

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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:52 pm

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I guess KMD, Re: my confidence in certain players over others...more things for you (or others to consider). I've completely lost faith in Chara via the non-game reasoning for them to 'lose confidence in my townread'. If they were confirmed town to me it would just simply be a confidence loser in me. Since they aren't it just tips them towards the scum side of things. Even though I read Math as town (for other reasons) while I have very little confidence in his ability to make reads, it's a little different as he stuck himself in a confirm bias spiral at that point. It's almost excusable, where as coming from Almost Chara they have no excuse for it. I'd like to move them to a scumread based on that along, but I fear I'd be putting myself in a confirm bias spiral by doing it, hence why I asked you that question out of nowhere.

I still think Nero is scum, but if you believe Chara to be town then I can understand believing that Nero is town. All this does for me is make a CharaTown and NeroScum distribution impossible (with the other three still on the table). This observation helps me for interaction purposes.

I think that's all I have for those three slots. We're still on opposite sides on McMenno right? Truth be told my read on them is eroding, because it would just be easier for McMenno to sit back and sheep Nero this day phase, and is honestly what I would have expected by this point. Plus at some point there needs to be more here than a Page 1 play.
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

In post 833, Almost Chara wrote:@Dodge:

How about your read on massive? Do you have one?
Nope. I can't even picture what a massive post looks like. It would be like if I asked 'hey Chara, how would you describe light-ganski's posts in this game?'

If that makes sense.
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 827, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 822, Almost50 wrote:OK.. HOLD ON YOUR SHOT, MATH.

I will -once again- try to not be a total ass about it. We clearly still hold the majority here, so it should be a Town motivated draft even if scum are trying to direct it.

IMPORTANT: NO OTHER OPTIONS ARE VALID BUT THE ONES YOU ARE GIVEN BELOW.

1- Draft MariaR with Pepto as the backup pick
2- Draft Titus with Tywin as the backup pick


I vote (2), and I know at least Math agrees, but I'll let them cast their vote on their own. (And especially so when the alternative is Titus whom Math is also suspicious of, so for Math it's a choice between 2 evils. Sorry about that. :( ).

~A50
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Pulled over for some food since traffic was backed up. Haven't read the rest yet.

I prefer drafting Twygin over Titus in case I am horribly wrong. I don't think I am and them having a finishing move doesn't prove they are masons only that they have a move together which could be neighbors or scum. I don't see them having multiple shots. If I am wrong Titus is almost certainly scum so of those four I prefer Tywin then Titus.
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:57 pm

Post by MathBlade »

So modified two.
Followed by number two in its original state
Swap the two players of option 1
Followed by number one in its original state.

That is in order of priority Almost Chara but I hate all of them.
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:59 pm

Post by MathBlade »

I am also a They Dodge.
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:14 pm

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Back when I get home then I will read the text walls.
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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:32 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Almost50 about your walls :):) except for the part about jester :(:(

I don't see any evidence of a jester and my wincon only mentions removing heels which I am guessing is group scum.
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:39 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Draft zefiend.
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:39 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 815, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 812, MathBlade wrote:
In post 808, Kmd4390 wrote:I mean I still think he's town but you've made your mind up so whatever. Almost gets his thing done. You take your shot. End of day. Hopefully you're town and right and I'm wrong.

As for the draft, I still want the masons and I've said why. I frankly don't give a rat's ass if smackdown wins or not so I don't care about breaking up their ability. I just want a town player here and I highly doubt they are scum. Like very highly doubt it.
Why do you doubt this?

I doubt 3-4 killing roles (depending on if you count masons as two people) exist in this game.
Won't answer the first question but how many submissions have been used? Aren't those all killing roles? Why is it so hard to believe that two more exist?

Because I find it very unlikely a mod would put in a town one shot vig, a town doctor/killer, AND infinite shot vig masons. Since I am about to prove I am a vig that seems insane for a 22 player setup to potentially have a two day vigs, a kill instead of Doctor, and a scum kill in a single night. If a dayvig and kill instead of doctor are both Town and the scum kill that is three deaths on a brand of 13 in a night. Then repeat if masons and docKiller aren't found it could easily make it down to 7 players on a single brand at the start of D3. For game mechanics reasons usually an infinite vig + one shot vig are included in bigger setup's like Wake's. Too much vigging and those who aren't vigs never really get a chance to play and have their voices heard.
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 842, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Draft zefiend.
That wasn't one of the options presented or I would be asking for Grey to be drafted.
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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:46 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 820, Almost Chara wrote:@Math:

I forgot to respond to this:I canNOT make Nero undraftable today. I already did that yesterday, and I can't pick the same person twice in a raw.

Anyway, I'm starting to get the feeling Ms Columbo & McMenno won't be responding to me regarding this, and LUV has explicitly expressed his disliking of the idea, so.. shoot at will.

Unlynchable:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga –
Kmd4390

Kmd4390 –
pepchoninga

Almost Chara -
Nero Cain

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -
Nero Cain

DodgeTheSaint -
Vifam

Vifam -
Lil Uzi Vert

Nero Cain –
Almost Chara

Malpascp -
Mathblade



To be lynched:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -
Mathblade
+
Nero Cain

Kmd4390 -
Malpascp
+
Mathblade

Almost Chara -
Lil Uzi Vert
+
Malpascp

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -
Pepchoninga
+
DodgeTheSaint

DodgeTheSaint -
Nero Cain
+
McMenno

Vifam –
McMenno
+
Kmd4390

Nero Cain -
Lil Uzi Vert
+
DodgeTheSaint

Malpascp -
Lil Uzi Vert
+
McMenno


Oh, also.. it'd be Titus or Tywin (someone who has a "tie" at the start of their username :lol) that we're drafting today. Can you like, not fight too much with your sister though? I mean, THAT is my one worry there, as I'm Town reading BOTH of you.

~A50
Do not make me undraftable then. I want to see if they take me and have to choose between mason claim kill or me if I get drafted. Also keep kmd here. The past few posts have me skiddish and I think they were trying to save Dodge.
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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

It's probably a bad sign when more players townread the player you grandstanded on than scumread him. It's too late though.
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 821, Kmd4390 wrote:I mean if that happens it's nothing gained, nothing lost. If we draft scum, it's nothing gained and a lot lost.
If I am right and Dodge did slip about three scum here then killing him means 2 and 2 scum. We need to keep that balance. Would much rather draft Grey but I don't have control over it.

I just don't like that you didn't even try to put any positivity here. It is like "Well no good can come of that" instead of "I see no upside to this but you could ...." or some kind of thing that didn't feel like you were dropping a turd onto Almost Chara and have it be "not your problem".
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:55 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 846, DodgeTheSaint wrote:It's probably a bad sign when more players townread the player you grandstanded on than scumread him. It's too late though.
...That is actually a good sign. Most of the reads are just "Dodge is town." And they are naked without reasons. That is usually from scum who don't want to be too invested in their buddy but enough to have pressure or Town who doesn't give two shits about the game. The division in who people want tells me that scum are not afraid of the prior game state. Which shockingly enough with how little content I am not surprised.

That distribution also means McMenno likely town.
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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:56 pm

Post by MathBlade »

The one person who actually bothered with attempts at reasons (kmd) is probably a scum buddy and the rest fall into lurkerdom. Which sucks.
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