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Post Post #900 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:15 pm

Post by MathBlade »

It becomes important to determine the trust levels of the managers early and see if they can be trusted.

It is also worth a note that if all the mafia go to one side the side with all town wins LOL
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Post Post #901 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:16 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Mafia would inherently want to win both games.
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Post Post #902 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:18 pm

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ERGO, the only scenario where the scumteam's knowing each other works is if both Manager's are town, therefore making them psudo-innocent children from the get-go.

The town has no control over the drafting. That's one player and one player alone.

You're dancing around the right conclusions when we talk about the set-up but somehow you're not getting there and I don't know what to do. What you are describing is all bad game design, and I know Kuroi isn't bad at designing games.
MathBlade wrote:Mafia would inherently want to win both games.
This is such a bad assumption, because once you win on one brand you win. This is a simple concept. The scum on Smackdown win IF and ONLY IF they win on Smackdown. The town can win here, and the scum will STILL win on Smackdown.

The flaw in your logic continues to stem from the idea that a single faction needs to win both games. A single faction DOES NOT NEED to win both games.
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Post Post #903 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

Before you go back into your loop. I understand, that as a member of the town, it would be nice if we won both brands. I understand that you, as town, would like to see town win on both brands. But it is NOT necessary.
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Post Post #904 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 902, DodgeTheSaint wrote:ERGO, the only scenario where the scumteam's knowing each other works is if both Manager's are town, therefore making them psudo-innocent children from the get-go.

The town has no control over the drafting. That's one player and one player alone.

You're dancing around the right conclusions when we talk about the set-up but somehow you're not getting there and I don't know what to do. What you are describing is all bad game design, and I know Kuroi isn't bad at designing games.
MathBlade wrote:Mafia would inherently want to win both games.
This is such a bad assumption, because once you win on one brand you win. This is a simple concept. The scum on Smackdown win IF and ONLY IF they win on Smackdown. The town can win here, and the scum will STILL win on Smackdown.

The flaw in your logic continues to stem from the idea that a single faction needs to win both games. A single faction DOES NOT NEED to win both games.
That is MY wincon.

However we do not have a flipped scum yet. If a scum flips murderize all town in a brand.

I think it would be a poor setup to have scum not know with brandswappinf and you have not made your point about ICs and you are looking to spread bullshit before you die.
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Post Post #905 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by MathBlade »

All town in a brand I will eat crow.
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Post Post #906 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:25 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

Just shoot me. You cannot be reasoned with. Not on reads, not even on PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE about our win conditions. There's nothing I or anyone can do to help you.
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Post Post #907 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:26 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Why are you forcing your wincon on us?
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Post Post #908 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:29 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

Unless the mafia need to win on both brands, in which case Mathblade just dropped a huge scumslip.
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Post Post #909 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:31 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 906, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Just shoot me. You cannot be reasoned with. Not on reads, not even on PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE about our win conditions. There's nothing I or anyone can do to help you.
I did try to understand. However you are starting from a false assumption namely managers are ICs. This is not the case. They may be coincidentally Town in this game but ICs no.

And I am waiting til AC declares what they are doing. Because I can and will have their action affect my read of them.

What I will not stand is blatant manipulation based on an unfounded premise.

Pedit:

I would make that assumption if they know each other they would have to win on both brands. Again common sense.

But this is all theory until we get a flip.
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Post Post #910 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:35 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

As much as you scumslipping would be justice, the Mod has already confirmed I'm correct about the win conditions so...
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Post Post #911 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:37 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 222, Vince McMahon wrote:I've posted this on Smackdown, but it's important Raw sees this too:

I had a chat with the listmod and we've concluded that no one will be mod-killed or replaced.

What I'm going to do is let everyone know two things:
1) Scum had access to the town win condition since the beginning of the game. (This is one of my biggest contributors in deciding whether someone will be mod-killed or not)
2) Post both the scum and town win conditions:
Town: You win when the entire heel threat is eliminated from your brand.
Scum: You win when all heels comprise of at least half of all wrestlers in your brand. (Including the general manager, if that is applicable.)

Furthermore, Vifam wasn't the only player that skirted on this rule. I've noticed a few others so this will serve as a mass-warning to everyone. Please be cognizant in what you post, especially if it's something I've sent to you. Word of wisdom: If you want to convey something I've said, it's a good practice to type it in your own words. Same goes to scum if you want to fake something - type it in your own words and don't make it sound like you just copy and pasted it.

Note to myself for when I have more time: I need to add seven hours and thirty-seven minutes to the deadline clock.

This is what the mod said the wincon is. So? Your point?
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Post Post #912 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:38 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 885, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Why does AC know that mafia on this brand would know who the mafia on the other brand are?
I don't, and I have systematically promoted the opposite. It's not even implied in my argument directed at LUV.

What I'm saying is if we are inclined to believe Maria + Pepto are Town Masons with multiple Vig shots it'd be best for SCUM to break that bond.

On the other hand I can now see that it might not be the case if Scum believe the Masons' next Vig target is likely to be Town as well, so it's one more reason for me to draft in Tywin/Tius (and right now we have 3 votes in favour of that couple and 2 in favour of the Masons).

Hmmm.. Grey may work for me, but I recall someone strongly objected to that one on D1. I just can't remember whom that was.

Tywin is a sure success if we decide to draft him, because he was massive's undraftable pick on D1, so he WILL be available today. The problem is LUV says he flaked site, and we have no idea how good a payer his replacement will be. I mean it's not "just" about Town reading your draft, but how good they are so that they can actually give you a boost in trying to solve the puzzle, providing accurate reads and being able to promote them successfully leading to the right lynches. I know Titus can don that, and we all know massive is very likely to draft Nero today.

Are the likes of McMenno & Ms Columbus still playing, btw?? They're the only ones -aside from LUV- who didn't respond to my first request and they also have not given an indication on whom they think we should draft. In fact, they haven't posted at all since I asked!

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Post Post #914 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:41 pm

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Oh so they could bring over all scum to one brand...Meh don't see it though. I still think they know who each other are though. I don't see a way for scum to play with only half the info they would need.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #915 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:42 pm

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Even if they did it would be town's fault for not hunting the GM and the other towns for not lynching scum there either.
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Post Post #916 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:43 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

Okay, but you need to think this through. It means that scum get to play perfectly, and the town are punished for playing the game normally. That's not a mafia game.
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Post Post #917 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:45 pm

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Anyway the assumption that scum know each other is probably a bad one, but I digress. I'm not going down this rabbit hole anymore since the moment I disagree with you I'm scum manipulating bullshit. You shoot me when you're good and ready I guess. Every time I try to reach out to you in this game, that's what I get.
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Post Post #918 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:49 pm

Post by MathBlade »

I would much rather Titus and myself be on the same side. Much as I normally hate it Grey here and me to the other team is the right call. It depends on if massive would draft me though and because of what was a shitty ass combo with no warning (gee thanks! Sarcasm) we can't ask. Mainly if I am the NK and I get drafted RAW and Smackdown numbers stay the same overnight.

If not then in essence we still lose a player.

Then the Maria R and Titus thing can be truly settled as those two should 1v1 tomorrow and it is worth noting that Maria did it to love, not the person who would almost damn near confirm her environment instead a freaking loved claim. Maria /Pep and myself both being vig claims would make sense to be in the same place if possible. Would like Titus there as well to further the situation.

Draft Grey and another townread as a backup is my two cents.
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Post Post #919 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:49 pm

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Anyway Chara I strongly think Titus is scum, so if you're town I think not drafting her would be best regardless. When I flip town you'll know my read is genuine so we can leave it at that, unless you want something specific (in which case refer to our hypothetical conversation first). For what it's worth I believe the Mason claim. They demonstrated their ability, and in a compact game where we start with 13, I can't see the scumteam having an extra kill, even if it's restricted like that.
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Post Post #920 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:50 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 916, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Okay, but you need to think this through. It means that scum get to play perfectly, and the town are punished for playing the game normally. That's not a mafia game.
No they don't...I don't get your arguments at all.

If you have a problem with the setup save it for post game.
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Post Post #921 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:51 pm

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In post 919, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Anyway Chara I strongly think Titus is scum, so if you're town I think not drafting her would be best regardless. When I flip town you'll know my read is genuine so we can leave it at that, unless you want something specific (in which case refer to our hypothetical conversation first). For what it's worth I believe the Mason claim. They demonstrated their ability, and in a compact game where we start with 13, I can't see the scumteam having an extra kill, even if it's restricted like that.
I don't see Town having three kills even if restricted like that. There are literally too many killers to all be Town.
As scum I would never CC a mason I would save my vig for LyLO or for when I was under suspicion. When Maria R /Pep came under suspicion they used it.
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Post Post #922 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:53 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 917, DodgeTheSaint wrote:Anyway the assumption that scum know each other is probably a bad one, but I digress. I'm not going down this rabbit hole anymore since the moment I disagree with you I'm scum manipulating bullshit. You shoot me when you're good and ready I guess. Every time I try to reach out to you in this game, that's what I get.
You aren't reaching out though. I have asked you to do two things:

1) Claim
2) Readwall

Neither of which you do.
You do not turn it around on me saying "That is what I get" when you do everything but what I ask.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #923 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:56 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 228, Narna wrote:Grey seems harder to sort than a PR claim. Maria is a scumlean at the moment, and I don't think they'd be an ideal pick for us even as town. I like pretty much all of Vifam's content though, and he would be my second choice at the moment. Titus isn't bad, but it would be a decent idea to separate those two.
Closest thing I could find to an objection AC.
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Post Post #924 (ISO) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:59 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

I don't believe you could read the entire game to find the only objection to Grey. In 7 minutes that would be 0.45 seconds per post. You must be lying!
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