OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Regfan]

Dunn - I'd like your thoughts on Kop in general & what you make from his dumbtell here. I'd also like your overall read on TB and the push that occurred on him. I recognise you comment on part of these inside your ISO which I'll be reading in the next 2-3 hours but would like your updated and current stance on both players with reasoning attached.

[Dunnstral]

The kop thing to me looks less about a dumbtell and more like he was trying to back out of his read that didn't make sense (after getting called out). Also, I think last time I saw him lurking/doing nothing like this he was scum. With that said, he got wagoned super fast/hard so that's a little suspicious, but there's only 2 mafia so it's not cause for concern I guess

I noted that while he was throwing shade on TB there, he's

still

voting gamma which itself isn't a good look as he doesn't seem to care to move his vote to who he's talking about either

I think TB is town, albeit awkward, I think there is scum pushing him; I think Alisae looks bad but I can see that's not happening, davesaz looks worse, and kop looks bad. Desperado's recent posting has me tilting my head and I feel like I should consider superhans more closely for scum

So pretty much everyone is scummy or in my sights

[Realeo]

Realeo - TB did state his reads and where he was at before stating intent to hammer, I'd like reasoning behind some of his reads but he's stated he's willing to get to those when he's at a computer next which is reasonable.

Stop defending him. Your entire case on TB is meta case.

If he's town, then he would defend himself.

I think this question is the

root of my concern

. Thank you for your concern, but for this

potentially final

question, I'd like you to go away.

[Realeo]

I'd like reasoning behind some of his reads but he's stated he's willing to get to those when he's at a computer next which is reasonable.

Of course you like it! It's all generic argument.

He's pointing out that Kop is inactive,

which what we have been talking for the last pages and the argument you have been pressing.

The problem is, told you that I accused him for plagiarising arguments--

making appeal to majority (or appeal to IC) arguments.

Your entire argument of "I like his reason" is the core problem of why I scumread him. It doesn't fly for me.

I need to check his logic on specific argument. His argument on Alisae is a specific, non appealing majority argument.

That's how I know if he's being sincere.

[Realeo]

If I figured out that there is genuine scumhunting on Alisae argument, I can be more easiely convinced that he is agreeing on the majority is simply a coincendental--wisdom of the crowd.

[Realeo]

@Kop:

How inactive are you?

[Realeo]

@People @ Kop wagon

(except Desperado) I can relate--but do not necessarily--concur that Kop can be scummy.

but why Kop is scummier than Daveaz?

The thing is I found it funny that Kop wagon

builds quicker

, but Daveaz is a

long-timer

(almost) unanimously scum-lean in this game. Not scumread, scum lean. He was not townread and get some nudges here and there.

I expect that since Daveaz a longer-term scum lean for this game, in the inner self of the people, players would want to lynch Daveaz because second scum after TB.

But Daveaz wagon didn't took of.

But when regfan talked Kop, suddenly people move to Kop?

I am willing to consider
town:TB
town:Kop
mafia:Daveaz
mafia:SH

...due to the speed of the wagon.

[Regfan]

Realo - It's not entirely a meta case with TB whatsoever, A) I think the way that AH pushed TB makes TB significantly more likely to be town than scum, I think the sheer amount of people trying to push the other avenue also suggests that I'm correct here and that scum are treating him a mslynch material. B) I'm actually town reading elements of TB's play ignoring AH's flip and C) I think some of the arguments put forward against TB are instances of people ignoring the type of player he is and stretching in regards to him in a way they're not doing wtih anyone else. You didn't want an "Inactive Child", well you got an active one, one that's more experienced than you and one that's telling you TB is town and not the focus needs to move elsewhere. With that said I do agree that he needs more elaboration on his Alisea/Desperado reads, I've asked for him that myself, you jumping in, voting him and attacking him instead of just waiting for him to get to it isn't helping.

Also I know that English isn't your first language so I'll point out for you that your Post 1303 is wrong, I didn't say "I like", I said "I'd like" as in I'm also wanting it from him. I also agree that the Kop wagon built up quickly, that said people sheeping an IC doesn't necessarily lead towards it being scum-driven; I think most people would do so regardless of alignment, I do agree with SH's vote being the most slimy though.

@Dunn - I agree that Kops "dumbtell" could just be him trying to back out after getting called out on his TB scum read not making sense. Also agree that his vote remaining on Gamma is bad.

[Realeo]

Ah. You mean my sudden vote? He wasn't near at L-1 so I just vote him back.

I guess internet doesn't convey every emotion perfectly.

[Kop]

UNVOTE: Gamma

I didn't realise I never unvoted. Let me read back the previous few pages.

[grapes]

DAY 2 VC 007

Kop ( 5 ) -

(Dunnstral, Desperado, Regfan, davesaz, Superhans)

ThinkBig ( 2 ) -

(Alisae, Realeo)

Not Voting ( 3 ) -

(Kop, Gamma Emerald, ThinkBig)

Six to lynch.
(expired on 2017-01-21 05:24:02) remain until deadline.

[Kop]

@Kop - RE: Post 1262 I'm not asking if you were looking for traitor crumbs yourself. I'm asking how you didnt notice that majority of peoples conversations were about people looking for them. When reading the thread you didn't think this was weird given your stance on mafia knowing them at the time? Like given your last few posts either you''re town that genuinely didn't know how the mafia team worked or you're scum that's trying to throw out a dumb tell to get town read and excuse your TB scum read post. Explain how the first of the two scenarios is the one that's the case here and that I should be unvoting you and looking elsewhere.

The scenario I am under I did see people talking about possible crumbs but I never take any notice of these simply because some crumbs can be a total fabrication so never even attempted to go and look for what was in discussion. I was under the illusion that scum knew who the traitor was so the crumbs that were in discussion were pointless to me, to waste time over looking it all. Now that I obviously understand the whole scenario regarding the traitor, if I did at the time, I would have been looking at the crumb discussions and seeing if I had noticed this too. Like I said I have played with the traitor role before, but I'll reiterate the point again since It's been said that it was this setup, it wasn't. It was ran on a different site and also is slightly different to how mafia games are ran over here, there is modifiers that make it a bit different.

It isn't a dumbtell that I used to gain town credit, it's genuinely me having a mare of a game and not actually reading it and proof reading it.

Ignore the three roles listed at the top of the post, that's just part of my notes when analysisng this.

I want to go through Dunns ISO & get a claim from Kop before we considering moving on.

I just noticed that I am on L-1. I am a Town Roleblocker.

I cannot back this claim up because the person I roleblocked is dead, I roleblocked ssbm_Kyouko. I had noticed a few slight things that were worrying me at the time how he town read AH and didn't want to get onto the wagon, and with him flipping scum, same problem as before being under the illusion that scum knew the traitor was, I thought he was scum because of that.

Re: Dumbtell. I will have to evaluate that when I get back to my laptop. It does make more sense from town POV, though Kop is an experienced player (far more than I am) and it doesn't seem like the kind of slip coming from an experienced player.

I have been playing mafia for quite some time, a few year at least with more than a handful games on different sites. I am immensely prone to having at least a few very bad games where I make myself look like a complete newbie. Unfortunately this is one of them.

@ThingBig - Why do you think Desperados push on you is him being mafia rather than him just being incorrect as town? Willing to wait for you to get to a computer to go through his/Aliseas ISOs to answer.

If scum really didn't add any modifiers then him claiming goon cop has a roughly ~1/4 chance of being CC'ed, that's not particularly high enough that would stop him fake claiming thinking he may be lynched otherwise. Like I said the way the claim happened and how he softed it does make much more sense as town but he's certainly not lock clear from it.

I'm conflicted on what to make of the dumbtell, I don't see how town that genuinely is reading through the thread can have that belief (That mafia knew traitor via role PM) unless they're not actually reading the thread properly and ignoring lots of conversations. I also don't see how Kop can have held that belief given some of his own posts inside this thread, the fact he's played the seutp before and the fact he's played as traitor where mafia didn't know who he was too. That said I don't know if attempting to fake a dumbtell like that is what mafia would think to do, it has scum motivation yes but is it the play they realise? Not sure.

I haven't played in this setup before, I have just played with a traitor.

[Kop]

VOTE: Davesaz

I don't think Dunstrall is scum on my wagon, regfan is confirmed town, if I had to choose scum on that wagon, Davesaz, Desperado or Superhans, it's within those 3.

[ThinkBig]

@Kop: Can you claim, please?

[ThinkBig]

Sorry didn't realize that you claimed. Who did you RB last night?

[ThinkBig]

I relinquish my intent to hammer for now.

[ThinkBig]

I haven't played in this setup before, I have just played with a traitor.

You actually have played this setup before.

[ThinkBig]

Who did you RB last night?

Ignore this again. Haven't had my morning coffee yet.

[ThinkBig]

Also, he demonstrates a knowledge of what the traitor entails in that game making his dumbtell suspicious.

[Realeo]

My brain is not an average brain so I would not be able to make an objective call.

Is it normal for a human brain to still remember/forget something from 1 year ago?

[Kop]

I haven't played in this setup before, I have just played with a traitor.

You actually have played this setup before.

I forgot all about that game, I have played a lot more on top of that since then, I don't remember every single setup I play.

[Desperado]

^That should be L-1. Please do not hammer until I get back and am able to provide some thoughts before the day ends.

????

u srs bro

[Desperado]

Because it's based on really bad reasoning that others didn't buy? Because a few of the scum team were already voting you? Could be several things. I don't get where you're going with this.

If "a few" of the scum team were already voting me then the game is over--it's 2/3 of Ali/Dave/Dunn and at least one of those people is scum and also announced in thread that they think I'm the traitor and they're gonna vote me for it.

I don't think that occurred. I think Dave and Ali are town, I think they legitimately thought I was the traitor, and I think the scum did also.

[Desperado]

You know, like ThinkBig, who had Ali as his strongest townread for the majority of the day but never engaged her read on me (and even forgot me in a reads list!)

[Desperado]

/Headdesk. Majority of players don't alter their reads because their town reads have them, especially someone that's as inexperienced as ThingBig. This is pretty bad point given who you're talking about.

If your town read on ThinkBig boils down to "He isn't good at this game" then I feel comfortable not sheeping you on him