Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[All Alone]

There's nothing to overlook, blue is a convenient way to refer to the opposite of red. Wraith would get shot because Blue is looking for Tex's partners

@Echo - I think it's optimal to keep the scum factions as evenly matched as possible to keep them scared of each other. If red gets lynched today there will be 0-1 red left and 2-3 blue left as we enter the night phase. I want blue aiming at red and red aiming at blue, I don't want either of them aiming at town/PRs.

The problem with your strategy here is that in multiball, the scumteams

generally

aren't looking to NK the other scumteam. Scum need to lynch someone not on their team during the day, and a lynch on the other scumteam tends to be an easier sell than a lynch on town. NKing the other scumteam limits scum's ability to lynch the other scum, so scum generally try to avoid doing so.

I think Kyouko's assumed scum strategy here is a towntell, since if he was scum he'd presumably have figured out the scum NK strategy last night. This is his first multiball game, and it's believable that the texcat kill and flip would give townKyouko reason to think that scumteams want to NK each other.

[Human Sequencer]

aa, what's your other experience w/ mafia? are you an alt?

[Wraith]

Jesus I can't even have football night without 10 pages accruing.

Spoiler: Misc Posts

everything GIN said should be disregarded

everything everyone said about GIN should be disregarded

No. No no no. He might have lied about his claim but he flipped town, meaning his reads at least we can trust to have been truthful. The problem is because the fakeclaim was so blindingly obvious that it will be hard to sift scum from town on the wagon.

Also you need to STOP FLAMING PEOPLE dreal. It's seriously as if you are trying to get yourself lynched at this point.

I feel like this wagon is ignoring the info Gin's fakeclaim gave us. Working on a wallpost about the votes onto Gin's wagon atm.

He proposed shooting amongst 6 players and 5 of those players ended up voting him, making up half of his lynch wagon. We know texcat was scum and was within Gin's sights. We should be examining the others' reasons for voting Gin to see if we can uncover a blue mafia member there, and looking at how others reacted to tex being a target

You're being short-sighted, deliberately or otherwise.

90% of the people who Gin wanted to shoot were scumreading him before.

I feel like this logic is totally backwards. Shouldn't it be the people who were scumreading him before who need the

most

scrutiny? I also find it suspicious now that the person who led the charge against Gin is now telling everyone that analyzing the motives of the people who wagoned Gin isn't important.

tf there are 9 scum, are there two scumteams of 4 members plus one SK?

???

I'm getting some growing suspicions of Kyouko based on two posts that, ironically, Dunn and Echo have made.

Spoiler: Kyouko

Wraith might get shot by blue mafia tonight anyways

Why would they?
I'll overlook you calling the unknown scum faction blue

Why is Kyouko assuming the other scum faction is blue? Why is Kyouko assuming I am the target of the "Blue" Scumteam? He's apparently confident enough to state this multiple times.

I feel like this wagon is ignoring the info Gin's fakeclaim gave us. Working on a wallpost about the votes onto Gin's wagon atm.

He proposed shooting amongst 6 players and 5 of those players ended up voting him, making up half of his lynch wagon. We know texcat was scum and was within Gin's sights. We should be examining the others' reasons for voting Gin to see if we can uncover a blue mafia member there, and looking at how others reacted to tex being a target

The intention of my post was to express that I think the Wraith wagon is a bad choice and we should reexamine Gin's wagon and fakeclaim to see if anything stands out as scummy. Ideally we look for a pool of blue mafia suspects today and lynch from in there in hopes that if we miss, red mafia will still shoot at our pool in hopes of hitting blue. We can look for red suspects too to try to direct blue's shots at red but it would be best to try to lynch blue today imo

why are you so worried on killing blue, why don't we just

kill fucking mafia

And here Kyouko seems awfully confident the Red Scumteam will comply with the town's wishes. There's no reason to try to scumhunt for a specific scumteam. I don't know how anyone thinks you can scumhunt for a specific scumteam, especially when there are still 17 players in this game. We don't even know how many total scum there are.

Spoiler: More Misc

Yeah. Echo is a lynch that needs to happen.
VOTE: EchoVision
Their vote on Gin was scummy as fuck.

This I still agree with.

As others have said the Echo meta doesn't really apply. PRs with information play radically different from non-PRs. That's what feels more like the case here - that Echo isn't a PR.

--------

everything GIN said should be disregarded

everything everyone said about GIN should be disregarded

I was pretty disappointed by Gin's play in that it was way sloppy for town, and just generally added disinformation. Thus, I agree with Drealmerz7 in that we should avoid considering too much of what Gin said. Ultimately, he had no significant insight due to role, and he demonstrated a willingness to lie and add disinformation to day one.

This fucking shit. I'm highlighting this post in particular here because this all Slick says after continuing to lurk hardcore, and then he disappears again. Plus it's, IMO actively anti-town advice.

In reply to a few other questions/comments from before:

Yes it's been a while since I've played a game. My style here is different from the past; I'm trying to apply some lessons from playing the game since last visiting this forum.

Regarding reads, I'll try and contribute more as they come, but I really do find that day two is when things make sense for me. Day one seems to be a lot of big egos duking it out while scum hunting. That's cool, but I'm just not going to end up being one of big egos. That said, Drealmerz7's first post rubbed me the wrong way with his atypical eagerness, but I've appreciated his further comments since then so I am going to change my vote to reflect this tentatively. Alisae seems to be pretty about shooting first and then not worrying about asking questions, but that can be a strategy. However, I'm ultimately swayed by Zachstralkita's argument and position regarding TheRealGin-N-Tonic so I will support it.

VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

I know this might not be a lot to offer while there is a wagon gathering for me, but that's what I've got. If I'm knocked out during Day 1, I accept that as a part of establishing culture and trimming incompatible players during the early game, even if they are townies.

Remember that THIS is what amounted to Slick's reasoning for hopping on the Gin wagon. "I don't like scumhunting D1 because it's a lot of big egos throwing their weight around. So I'm going to sheep Zach and hop on the Gin wagon. I'll be back D2 k bye." And he's made a grand total of one post so far D2. So much for that promise so far.

Unvote

Vote: Slick

---------

Spoiler: Dunn Claim

Alright lads, I figure this is a good a time as any to mention my own investigate guilty on

Echovision

... let's lynch

Echovision

and laugh at rb

At first I was all for jumping on this, because I townread Dunn and have been getting PR vibes from his play all game. But going through the catch-up I started second-guessing myself. If Dunn had Echo dead-to-rights then why were his primary targets going into this day myself and Slick? He barely mentioned Echo at all today until only a couple or so pages ago. If Dunn was trying to get Echo lynched without outing himself as a Cop, then I'd expect him to be explicitly pushing Echo as his top scumread for the reasons he's stated in the past ASAP, or at least to be subtly pushing forward Echo as an alternative wagon to the frontrunners. So while I'm not ruling Dunn's claim out as an outright lie like I did Gin's, I'm remaining skeptical for now and not jumping on the Echo wagon.

I'll cite some of his earlier posts pre-claim to demonstrate where my skepticism is coming from.

Alright let's get slick or wraith

VOTE: Wraith

I'd be willing to lynch echo

This one is the most he pushes Echo before Echo reappears in the thread.

What's the right path?

That's what I'm figuring out. Prob lynch wraith vig rb and investigate whoever; and lynch echo tomorrow

Wait no, vig alisae if anything

While I see here he's lining up Echo for D3, I assumed pre-claim that this was because he just in general strongly-scumreads Echo. I again wonder, if you have a scumbag dead-to-rights, why delay in lynching them? Why gamble on some other scumread you don't have a result on and risk the chance you might be killed N2 before revealing your result on Echo?

EDIT:

I've reached these posts

VOTE: slickdilinger

Dunn, help me understand what you're doing right now.

being dumb apparently if echo is town

So it looks like my skepticism was correct. I'm going to take it that Dunn was trying to gambit and get a reaction from Echo.

Spoiler: Even More Misc

We're nowhere near LyLo, I'll gladly trade 1 for 1 if Dunn turns out to be lying

I'm scumreading Kyouko now. If Dunn is scum and lying about being a Cop, then that would easily be confirmed and Dunn would get lynched D3. That's a pretty self-defeating strategy IMO, since I haven't had any hints that Echo might be a PR, which would be the only reason I can think Scum!Dunn would gambit like this.

Hold. Dunn if you had a guilty on Echo, why didn't you vote for him as soon as Day 2 started? What was the Wraith and Zach stuff about?

I think Kyouko falling can bump you up out of my scumreads at this point.

There's nothing to overlook, blue is a convenient way to refer to the opposite of red. Wraith would get shot because Blue is looking for Tex's partners

@Echo - I think it's optimal to keep the scum factions as evenly matched as possible to keep them scared of each other. If red gets lynched today there will be 0-1 red left and 2-3 blue left as we enter the night phase. I want blue aiming at red and red aiming at blue, I don't want either of them aiming at town/PRs.

The problem with your strategy here is that in multiball, the scumteams

generally

aren't looking to NK the other scumteam. Scum need to lynch someone not on their team during the day, and a lynch on the other scumteam tends to be an easier sell than a lynch on town. NKing the other scumteam limits scum's ability to lynch the other scum, so scum generally try to avoid doing so.

I think Kyouko's assumed scum strategy here is a towntell, since if he was scum he'd presumably have figured out the scum NK strategy last night. This is his first multiball game, and it's believable that the texcat kill and flip would give townKyouko reason to think that scumteams want to NK each other.

I don't like this post. Now I haven't actually played in a multiball game in years, but I thought that the scum's ideal strategy there would be to lynch/kill the rival team as fast as possible, since the rival team is much more of a threat due to

having their own nightkill

. Wouldn't a potential nightkill aimed at them be MUCH more of a threat than a lynch that the scum can contribute to?

Sorry for the wallpost again, I tried to format it this time.

[Creature]

Okay, I noticed the guilty.

VOTE: EchoVision

[EchoVision]

VOTE: slickdilinger

did nobody notice that he's changed his vote after saying he got a guilty invest on me last night?? this screams fake claim yet you guys are still voting me okay

[drealmerz7]

this was my initial inclination when I saw the claim
but now it is just necessary and not moving

VOTE: dunnstral

[All Alone]

Sequencer: This is my main, and I don't play anywhere else.

I think SlickDilinger is the best lynch today. This isn't a lurker lynch, I think he's just scum.

Not planning to change my vote until I’m more confident about it; I like drealmerz7’s work based on seeing more of his analysis and posts, but I don’t often have strong reads during day ones.

I don't really get why townSlick would leave his vote on the drealmerz wagon here if he liked drealmerz's more recent posts. Townies are usually nervous about pushing wagons on players they don't suspect, and his reason for leaving his vote in place doesn't really make sense. I feel like he's leaving his vote on drealmerz here because he thinks he's "supposed" to, rather than because he genuinely expects to get anything out of it.

Hi have a good idea! Why don't we flashwagon this?
VOTE: SlickDilinger
Or someone can do a meta dive real quick, either work for me.

I'm the ninth person you've laid a vote against on day one.

This is a really slimy response considering Slick has stated he had no strong opinion on Alisae. When townies are defensive, they usually explain their own motives from their point of view, and only go negative like this if they're either scumreading the attacker, or if they think the attacker is just being really stupid. Neither seems to be the case here, which indicates a disingenuous attempt at discrediting.

Lil Uzi Vert, sorry for letting you down. Are you still looking for an answer to what I mean by pretty? In short, if you cut the word out it's probably fine. In long, I'm luke-warm on how scummy or townie Alise is, but I have stronger feelings about other players.

What other players? The only players Slick's talked about at all are Alisae, Gin, and drealmerz, and he only stated "stronger" feelings about Gin. If he genuinely had stronger feelings about other players, why didn't he talk about them instead? Why would townSlick let Alisae and drealmerz dominate the discussion and never even bring up the players he felt strongly about? This is a scummy go-with-the-flow mindset.

everything GIN said should be disregarded

everything everyone said about GIN should be disregarded

I was pretty disappointed by Gin's play in that it was way sloppy for town, and just generally added disinformation. Thus, I agree with Drealmerz7 in that we should avoid considering too much of what Gin said. Ultimately, he had no significant insight due to role, and he demonstrated a willingness to lie and add disinformation to day one.

After promising all throughout D1 that he'd have more insight on D2, D2 comes and Slick's only insight is apparently to discredit the only player besides rb who we know had a town wincon. I think if Slick was genuinely trying to sort players, he'd have something more meaningful to talk about than this by now.

VOTE: SlickDilinger

[Human Sequencer]

@dream, echo, everybody else buying into the dunn claim
maybe you guys should actually read the thread lmao
wraith's post has spoiler tags yknow, try opening them
i know i gave him a question mark earlier, but that was just me trying to figure out where he was going with it

btw wraith we agree on a lot, did you bother reading my post?
i would be worried you're buddying up to me but every time i worry that i'm wrong and the other person was just making the same logical leaps i was (RE: copper, smith, umlaut)
then again the way you didn't comment on my post at all looked legit

[EchoVision]

@dream, echo, everybody else buying into the dunn claim
maybe you guys should actually read the thread lmao
wraith's post has spoiler tags yknow, try opening them
i know i gave him a question mark earlier, but that was just me trying to figure out where he was going with it

btw wraith we agree on a lot, did you bother reading my post?
i would be worried you're buddying up to me but every time i worry that i'm wrong and the other person was just making the same logical leaps i was (RE: copper, smith, umlaut)
then again the way you didn't comment on my post at all looked legit

what do you mean I should read the thread I was the one arguing with Dunn about his fake claim...

[Wraith]

@dream, echo, everybody else buying into the dunn claim
maybe you guys should actually read the thread lmao
wraith's post has spoiler tags yknow, try opening them
i know i gave him a question mark earlier, but that was just me trying to figure out where he was going with it

btw wraith we agree on a lot, did you bother reading my post?
i would be worried you're buddying up to me but every time i worry that i'm wrong and the other person was just making the same logical leaps i was (RE: copper, smith, umlaut)
then again the way you didn't comment on my post at all looked legit

I skimmed it mostly because I saw you still have major tunnel vision on dreal and myself.

[Human Sequencer]

because you're both pretty obvscum? i'm not tunneled, i dug into slick for doing fuck all and am considering jumping on that wagon and weighed in on the echo situation. you skimmed it because you think i'm tunneled, but that skim would be enough to show that i'm clearly not because of how i'm interacting with others. give it another look, maybe?

i'm glad you're around, how do you justify slipping multiball at the start?

119
Alright I hope I'm not the only one who saw this. Wraith intends to imply that Debi is scum, because they have a foreknowledge of the setup (how many scum there are), and then pushes that it's multiball. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's multiball, surely scum aren't informed how many other teams there are or how many scum are on those teams, so how would Debi have that foreknowledge? I would waive this as Wraith just making a mistake if he didn't pull the multiball assumption out of his ass-- That implies to me that -he- knows it's multiball. 'Foreknowledge of the setup'.
Debi wasn't even being that serious with the 9/10 split, she said the following:

So just for the sake of it, lets say we had 10 towns in this game, and 9 scum, it is unlikely but go with it.

And beyond that never even implied that they believed there was multiball. Really suss, strongest scumread as of this post.

^what i'm referring to

i'm actually pretty unsure on your slot because 119 is damning as fuck but everything else is pretty damn town so i'm glad you're around so i can sort you

[Wraith]

because you're both pretty obvscum? i'm not tunneled, i dug into slick for doing fuck all and am considering jumping on that wagon and weighed in on the echo situation. you skimmed it because you think i'm tunneled, but that skim would be enough to show that i'm clearly not because of how i'm interacting with others. give it another look, maybe?

i'm glad you're around, how do you justify slipping multiball at the start?

119
Alright I hope I'm not the only one who saw this. Wraith intends to imply that Debi is scum, because they have a foreknowledge of the setup (how many scum there are), and then pushes that it's multiball. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's multiball, surely scum aren't informed how many other teams there are or how many scum are on those teams, so how would Debi have that foreknowledge? I would waive this as Wraith just making a mistake if he didn't pull the multiball assumption out of his ass-- That implies to me that -he- knows it's multiball. 'Foreknowledge of the setup'.
Debi wasn't even being that serious with the 9/10 split, she said the following:

So just for the sake of it, lets say we had 10 towns in this game, and 9 scum, it is unlikely but go with it.

And beyond that never even implied that they believed there was multiball. Really suss, strongest scumread as of this post.

^what i'm referring to

i'm actually pretty unsure on your slot because 119 is damning as fuck but everything else is pretty damn town so i'm glad you're around so i can sort you

Because I badly misread Debi's hypothetical and thought

she

was speculating multiball.

But yeah it's tunneling if you're focused on one post from 100 pages ago as the sole reason I'm scum. You really haven't stated any other reason to scumread me.

[Human Sequencer]

perhaps because i don't have any other reason to scumread you
overall i think your walls are good i just wish you focused less on being so broad tbh
621 checks out, so your defense is consistent, but i still think it's flawed. i don't buy that you legitimately misread debi's comment as multiball spec, and i don't know if you do either.

what do you have to say about pushing rb for a scumslip based on multiball, and then saying that you doubt its multiball?

furthermore, if you think 19p is too little for multiball, why did you buy into it so easily when debi was speccing it, especially considering she never actually directly mentioned multiball? i think if you legitimately doubted multiball due to playercount, reading debi's post wouldn't have pinged you at all. you jumping onto it reads like you knowing it's multiball and knowing debi might be slipping that.

[Wraith]

perhaps because i don't have any other reason to scumread you
overall i think your walls are good i just wish you focused less on being so broad tbh
621 checks out, so your defense is consistent, but i still think it's flawed. i don't buy that you legitimately misread debi's comment as multiball spec, and i don't know if you do either.

what do you have to say about pushing rb for a scumslip based on multiball, and then saying that you doubt its multiball?

furthermore, if you think 19p is too little for multiball, why did you buy into it so easily when debi was speccing it, especially considering she never actually directly mentioned multiball? i think if you legitimately doubted multiball due to playercount, reading debi's post wouldn't have pinged you at all. you jumping onto it reads like you knowing it's multiball and knowing debi might be slipping that.

Because it sounded pretty plausible coming from my top townread at the time.

Also I can't decide if RB is town or scum.

On one hand he could be trying to derail the Wraith wagon by attacking two of the people that are on it.
On the other hand, would scum really do a push so bad on both me an Gin?

this bad push is going to have you both lynched on days 1 and 2 respectively

and if you wanna just tell me your other scumbuddy now that's fine too

Clarify this for me rb, are you saying there are only three scum? In a 19p game?

Oh yeah, that was Grey. Who flipped scum. And who also tried to push my early post re: Debi as a scumslip.

I agree. Assuming 9 scum right off the bat implies foreknowledge of the setup

Welcome to my scum pile.

You were sheeping him a lot early on, but I was taking a lot of what he said as gospel too, so for the moment I'm under the impression that you just got fooled too. Plus I don't think scum players outright buddy each other.

But you're clearly suffering from some cognitive dissonance considering you're pushing me while simultaneously thinking my later posts were town, and that's somewhat suspicious. That said, considering RB and Creature both trust you and they're my top townreads now, I just think you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Human Sequencer]

that's a good point RE:grey, i missed that because lol context. grey pushed you for the slip, because he knew. he had prior knowledge. i'm getting the feeling that's exactly what happened between you and debi.

yeah that cognitive dissonance is what i'm trying to resolve now lmao
i still just can't get my head around how you can look at debi's post and say 'yep she's saying multiball' without prior knowledge of multiball, it's eating away at me

i'd rather you formulate your own read on me, you've proven able to do it before. unless i'm a low-priority slot, in which case, ok.

definitely still dtl wraith today. sec, compiling some information together

[Human Sequencer]

i was gonna compile an unofficial votecount but FUCK THAT lmao, that shit takes more effort than i thought

VOTE: slick
post moar

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Players suggesting lynching me for saying blue are more likely to be scum imo

I'm not going to qualify "the other" scumteam or the "not red" scumteam every time I want to talk about players that are scum but not on Red Mafia team, it's clunky and inconvenient. There's also a game in the archives that uses red mafia and blue mafia as the factions that I saw when I was looking at the multiball setups.

[Wraith]

Players suggesting lynching me for saying blue are more likely to be scum imo

I'm not going to qualify "the other" scumteam or the "not red" scumteam every time I want to talk about players that are scum but not on Red Mafia team, it's clunky and inconvenient. There's also a game in the archives that uses red mafia and blue mafia as the factions that I saw when I was looking at the multiball setups.

Personally I think it's a lot more suspicious that you're insisting we scumhunt specifically for one scumteam today.

[Human Sequencer]

would you like to substantiate that claim by looking into each player's individual reasoning and picking apart why it fails?
you don't see how that idea could come from town?

it looks like you've got a good ground to start with (or at least you definitely think you do), but where do you want to go with it?

[Human Sequencer]

pedit: eh that could be town i suppose, unless kyouko is blue which i suppose would support him slipping blue but cmon there's no way he's that stupid

[Human Sequencer]

like if anything i feel like he's red and just assumes or is told blue is the other team based on some private mod given information we don't have, apart from that he's probably town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So is it standard for mafia to try to lynch each other instead of NK each other in multiball?

[SlickDilinger]

VOTE: slickdilinger

did nobody notice that he's changed his vote after saying he got a guilty invest on me last night?? this screams fake claim yet you guys are still voting me okay

Goon, where did I claim to get a guilty read on you? What post?

[Alisae]

Oh hey, Slick, you're here.
I got news for you!
I'm a Novice 1-shot Desperado.
That means I am going to shoot you, and either one or two things are going to happen:
A. You are scum and you will die.
B. You are town and I will die.

Bombard:Slick

[SlickDilinger]

VOTE: slickdilinger

did nobody notice that he's changed his vote after saying he got a guilty invest on me last night?? this screams fake claim yet you guys are still voting me okay

Goon, where did I claim to get a guilty read on you? What post?

Sorry, nix the 'goon', I

Dunnstral

, when did I claim a read on you?