I'm sorry...what?In post 1348, Superhans wrote:well for anyone to take you seriously you need to argue your case. Regfan currently has a more extensive case than you. So yeah a naked re-vote on ThinkBig isn't good enough anymore.
OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)
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Desperado Survivor
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In post 860, Superhans wrote:524, relevant to desperados argument above; TB divorces himself from the AntiHuman wagon even though he had said that he scum read both Dunnstal and AntiHuman.In post 873, Superhans wrote:@Dunnstral
Why are you so sure TB is Town? I think the logic behind his wagon is convincing.
@Gamma
872 is redundant. Just under half the playerbase is on you. If you could kill one of the following players who would it be? + Why?
K O P
R E A L O
S U P E R H A N S
D U N N S T R A LIn post 963, Superhans wrote:also it helps rather than hurts to look at players beyond the obvious ThinkBig.In post 968, Superhans wrote:I agree that ThinkBig is the best lynch candidate and have scum read him since mid D1. However, there are two scum, so we need to grill other people too.In post 978, Superhans wrote:The TB is likely scum logicIn post 990, Superhans wrote:
Where r u man? This was quite a while ago, where r the 'catch up' posts.In post 960, ThinkBig wrote:
GE claimed Goon Cop, not JOAT. JAOT is a mafia-only role in this set up.In post 957, Realeo wrote:GE claimed JOAT so I need to give a second thought
PS: Catching up now.
[/quote]In post 1056, Superhans wrote:
It's not meta analysis.In post 1038, ThinkBig wrote:
Shitty meta analysisIn post 1025, Superhans wrote:Dunnstral how has ur game play changed since this game?
ThinkBig, can you explain your sketchy interactions with AH D1, as articulated by Desperado:
quote="In post 859, Desperado"]
look at thisIn post 382, Antihuman wrote:I do admit my case on TB may have been a bit overblown but I wanted people to see the parallel between this and Gamma's wagon.
I've seen few interesting reactions, gonna elaborate tomorrow (this is the part where TB should shout: excuses!).
TraitorAH is basically begging Think to just let it go.
In post 383, ThinkBig wrote:
Not sure TBH. Possibly because I was the one that got the wagon moving. In any case, the wagon and my vote did exactly what I wanted it to do.In post 381, Superhans wrote:@ThinkBig
Out of 4 players on the Gammagon:
K O P
D E S P E R A D O
R E A L O
T H I N K B I G
S U P E R H A N S
¿Why Did He Go After You?
Excuses!!In post 382, Antihuman wrote:I do admit my case on TB may have been a bit overblown[/quote
You no say?
I've seen few interesting reactions, gonna elaborate tomorrow (this is the part where TB should shout: excuses!).In post 475, ThinkBig wrote:Just re read the last few pages.
VOTE: Dunnstral
I really don't like his defense of antihuman. It reeks the smell of buddying.
I'll provide my full reads and more information on Sunday night after work. Been quite busy with the holiday.
And he does! Even tho he lists AH as his biggest scumread in his next post.In post 502, ThinkBig wrote:Here are my reads so far:
Algebra- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.
Alisae- Strong town lean. I like his analysis so far and he seems to be making a genuine attempt to scum hunt and solve the game.
ssbm_Kyouko- Null lean.
Davesaz- Null town.
Kop - Null
Gamma - Null
Superhans - Null
Desperado- Null scum. I really don't like how he buddied up to Antihuman. His defense screamed that he was buddying him.
Realeao- Scum lean. I don't like how he constantly asks "why" and asks people to keep explaining things that they already have. He asks those types of questions in a scummy way.
Antihuman- I really don't like how he has been throwing shades everywhere. His case against me was very bad and felt contrived. I also really don't like how he tried to derail the Gamma wagon. If gamma flips scum, I'm fairly confident he is scum as well.
I think that's everyone. Let me know if I missed someone.
^This is about the point where AH decided to pivot and really buss ThinkBig. Think posts another reads list that AH bashes as well, and he then he starts to link Think and Alisae really hard:
In post 574, Antihuman wrote:Lol this readlist's such bullshit
In post 570, ThinkBig wrote:Revised Read List
Algebra- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.<--- Completely unnecessary comment. Trying to appear better by having one extra scumread
Alisae- By far my biggest town read. He shows genuine interest in the game and shows genuine scum hunting.<--- because she scumreads me too, how surprising
Superhans- Town lean. I disagree with his logic, but I understand where he is coming from<--- aka "I know his reasons for scumreading me are valid but I'll just wait until he gets bored and goes away"
ssbm_Kyouko - Null town.<--- in your previous readlist, she was a "null lean", which looks like a hilarious slip. You don't wanna look like you have too many nulls but you have no reasons for townreading her.
Davesaz - Null town.<--- for what? He's defended me and he's voted Desperado for logic which you called flatout wrong!
Kop - Null<--- what's your opinion on Real's case on Kop?
Gamma - Null<--- but he's my partner, member?!
Desperado- Null, leans scum. I don't really buy the traitor theory nor do I buy the logic behind it.<--- Why the fuck are you scumleaning on him then?! Leaving your options open? You should be scumreading people who started pushing him for wrong reasons instead! (including your strongest tr, Alisae...)
Realeao- Scum lean. 561 screams opportunistic and sheeping. I also don't like how he is constantly flipping his reads and can't seem to make up his mind.<--- How the hell is he sheeping when he's provided valid reasons for scumreading you, just like Superhans. How come you don't "disagree with his logic but see where he's coming from" here? Being undecided isn't a scumtell too. You've scumread me for tunnelling, which is a complete opposite! You also haven't addressed his points...
Antihuman- Continuing to throw shades and continuing<--- what the hell does that even mean? If scumminess was the color black, there wouldn't even be a shadow visible on you, smh
Honest to god, I wasn't really up to lynching you when I entered the game but now I seriously have reasons to see you hang, there are just too many discrepancies. I also wouldn't be surprised at Tb-Alisae team. Both are pushing me on bullshit reasoning and townread each other based on thin air, looks like a well coordinated last minute mislynch push.
Finally, this:In post 586, Antihuman wrote:zZz just lynch me already, I can't take this united scumfront pounding at my will to do something productive
Looks like frustrated scum reaching for WIFOM.In post 627, Antihuman wrote:Yeah it seems like really a great play to get into the game, decide you wanna tunnel your partner for no particular reason instead of choosing a safe target and try to blend in with deadline slowly approaching and risk getting both players lynched as the only viable wagons wtf I'm a much better scum player than that, don't insult meIn post 1057, Superhans wrote:
Your 3) and 4) are very weak points indeed, and I think it's ridiculous to criticise Desperados logic in 1), when you then suggest that Realos tiny slip, and Alisaes's kinda amusing fake hammer reaction test are scum tells.In post 1039, ThinkBig wrote:My thoughts:
1) Desperado has been throwing shades at me for nearly the entire game. His "logic" and reasons are almost as bad, if not worse than, antihuman (who flipped traitor).
2) Gamma claimed goon cop. For the record, I see no reason not to believe his claim.
3) Not liking realeo at all. Don't like how he mixed up gamma's claim and turned it into a JOAT (a scum-only role in this set-up).
4) Alisae's reaction test seems contrieved and fake. These types of "reaction tests" I expect to see more from scum than from town.
Final thoughts for now: I think you'll find the last remaining scum between desperado, realeo, and alisae.
What is your opinion on Kop?In post 1085, Superhans wrote:
If you are Town, nothing that you say is remotely helpful in catching the real scum. Scum are on my wagon, 'I find this comment offensive', baseless reads.In post 1076, ThinkBig wrote:Meh, I'm still learning how to read people and build a case against them. My wagon is almost certainly scum motivated in an easy mislynch.
Also you still haven't got round to rebutting Desperados case against you by trying to explain your sketchy behaviour D1.In post 1138, Superhans wrote:
806 <- Do you not agree that Desperado is transparent? I guess I have placed a significant level of faith into his argument that ThinkBig is scum (first appearing in 776). I'm assuming that you do not think that this theory is likely to be correct, asIn post 1100, Regfan wrote:@Gamma- I would appreciate you unvoting in that case, especially given I just replaced in a few hours ago. Plus we're not lynching TB today, I'll go into that later though.
I think Han's question about Gammas scum meta in Post 44 shows a town thought process behind it, I also like his posts directed to MariaR in the early game. I think SH's question in Post 286 is more likely to come from town albeit this is a weak point. I don't necessarily agree with SH's logic in Post 549 but I can follow the thought process behind it. I think SH's attitude around deadline D1 in ~Post 660 comes across as town. The progression behind SHs Post 806 an Post 812 is very questionable especially considering his prior stance on the night kills being WIFOM. I like his analysis of Dave in Post 970 but dislike the TB vote inside Post 989. I think him bringing up Dunns prior scum game inside this setup in Post 1024 and asking him to explain how he thinks his play has changed in Post 1025 is a decent town tell but his follow up of "Just fucking with you" is underwhelming. I have a weak town read on him all up but would like to actually see some more content from him today.
@SH - Can you run me through a few things please; 1) What specifically what made you change your stance on AH/TB "Never being scum together" to currently having TB as your current strongest scum read. Please don't refer to Desperados case when answering this, I want your exact thought process because Post 1056 has some real questionable logic involved in it. 2) Can you explain the change from you stating that Ssbms death was WIFOM inside Post 767 to proceeding to vote Gamma for Ssbm inside Post 812 since that's a fairly weird flip to make. Would also love any other reads you have at the moment with some reasoning attached.
a) You haven't Town Read Desperado
b) You don't want to push the Lynch of ThinkBig
From my perspective Desperado's case on ThinkBig is very very convincing.
812 Previously I had tried to discourage (Realo I think?) from over-reading into the NK, saying it leads to WIFOM brain fuckeroo. However, when voting Gamma, I wasn't saying that I was voting Gamma BECAUSE of the death of SSBM, I was saying that I was continuing her push onto Gamma, not accusing Gamma of NKing her.
The value of Dunnstrals previous game is negligible. I also doubted that her answer was going to be that helpful, as she played as Traitor, so it wouldn't even be directly applicable to this game. Bringing in behavior from previous games would only convulate this game. When I asked her question, I honestly did not care about her play in the previous game. I didn't even bother to check to make sure what she had said was even true. I used the introduction of her previous game as an act of intimidation, and I wanted to see if I could provoke anger out of her.
ThinkBig and AntiHuman were engaged in a fight to the death. AntiHuman was fighting from the jaws of death under intense pressure. He was pushing ThinkBig very very hard. I doubted that two scum would want to fight so hard, even by bussing standards, since AntiHuman was actually producing some fairly valid scum claims on ThinkBig (undermining his logic).In post 608, Superhans wrote:I know one thing for sure, that is ThinkBig and Antihuman AREN'T scum together.
However,
Looking back on it, you can see that their relationship was more nuanced:
If it was a S v T fight to the death then why did ThinkBig back off halfway through the fight to go after Dunnstral?In post 1159, Superhans wrote:
Firstly I'd like to thank you for the amount of good analysis you're making on ThinkBig, however, I would disagree that ThinkBig made good reasoning D1. He created the AH wagon, then jumped ship to attack Dunnstral and refused to say that he still supported the AH wagon.In post 1118, Regfan wrote:I don't consider his reads that awkward, I think him believing that there's some buddying going on between scum mates isn't an unreasonable stance to take. His read and reasoning on AH D1 was particularly good and his reassessment of Hans to move him from null->town was certainly good. I think people are blowing his reads list here way out of proportion and ignoring the fact the traitor flip means we absolutely should not be lynching TB today.
I've seen him be mslynched like this far too many times and the reasoning behind it here is particularly weak, like really really weak.
How would you explain this behaviour? I would ideally want TB to answer these questions but he has been to busy to do so (although he has had time to whip together some basic readlists which is kinda annoying).In post 1167, Superhans wrote:You haven't properly explained why you find Desperados case appalling.-
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Superhans
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Desperado Survivor
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Desperado Survivor
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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Stop throwing shades. You've been throwing shades at me this entire day and now you're suddenly trying to throw shades at hans.In post 1362, Desperado wrote:Buzzwords!
The analysis is self-evident--there is nothing in Superhans' ISO to support what he's saying right now.I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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M8 what do you not understand?In post 1362, Desperado wrote:Buzzwords!
The analysis is self-evident--there is nothing in Superhans' ISO to support what he's saying right now.-
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Desperado Survivor
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My read on you is independent of my read on ThinkBig. He could be scum that you were bussing and now you see a way out with reg in the picture; he could be town that you were riding my coat tails to mislynch and now that reg won't let it happen you've reversing course with nothing to support it.In post 1360, Superhans wrote:You think I'm scum with TB? Or is TB out of the picture for now?
Either way, your progression does not come from town.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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If thinking you are scum and typing words to persuade others to agree with me = throwing shades then yes, yes I am.In post 1363, ThinkBig wrote:Stop throwing shades. You've been throwing shades at me this entire day and now you're suddenly trying to throw shades at hans.-
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I'm not townreading ThinkBig, I'm just revoking some of my faith in you.In post 1365, Desperado wrote:
My read on you is independent of my read on ThinkBig. He could be scum that you were bussing and now you see a way out with reg in the picture; he could be town that you were riding my coat tails to mislynch and now that reg won't let it happen you've reversing course with nothing to support it.In post 1360, Superhans wrote:You think I'm scum with TB? Or is TB out of the picture for now?
Either way, your progression does not come from town.-
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Better good shit that you never felt compelled to comment on or engage in any way?In post 1366, Superhans wrote:i've read your case on TB (good shit right there), and I've read RF's (better good shit). You need to step up your game boy. No one is pushing TB apart from you, so you need to convince us.
And the idea that no one else is pushing TB is nonsense. He was at L-1. There is clearly support for his lynch. I don't "need" to do anything.-
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So Reg's townThink case was so good that the scumThink one you'd been cheerleading all day is now complete and utter bollocks, but you also don't think ThinkBig is town?In post 1368, Superhans wrote:I'm not townreading ThinkBig, I'm just revoking some of my faith in you.
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This wasn't Regfan's argument. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect you to make a convincing case on the wagon you're pushing, otherwise why bother push the wagon at all?In post 1324, Desperado wrote:
If your town read on ThinkBig boils down to "He isn't good at this game" then I feel comfortable not sheeping you on himIn post 1273, Regfan wrote:/Headdesk. Majority of players don't alter their reads because their town reads have them, especially someone that's as inexperienced as ThingBig. This is pretty bad point given who you're talking about.
I decided when I ISO'd Regfan. I voted Kop to indicate that I was off of the TB wagon and onto a more likely scum player.In post 1353, Desperado wrote:And then you just drop it and start voting and focusing on Kop. When did you decide that regfan's case was "more extensive" and why is it better than the one I built and you've been cheerleading all day?
I changed my mind, sorry if it is a surprise to you, but what can i say?-
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Yeh, but I don't think the scum case on ThinkBig is bollocks, just I feel more confident lynching Kop today. Your latest scumpush on TB is not compelling.In post 1371, Desperado wrote:
So Reg's townThink case was so good that the scumThink one you'd been cheerleading all day is now complete and utter bollocks, but you also don't think ThinkBig is town?In post 1368, Superhans wrote:I'm not townreading ThinkBig, I'm just revoking some of my faith in you.
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Desperado Survivor
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I'm quite certain that it is. Regfan's case is "AH was traitor and pushed ThinkBig, and ThinkBig isn't a strong player."In post 1372, Superhans wrote:This wasn't Regfan's argument.I don't think it is unreasonable to expect you to make a convincing case on the wagon you're pushing, otherwise why bother push the wagon at all?
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