In Memory

[The DEO]

thanks JR, I just did a quick breathing exercise

The DEO, do you follow my suspicion on you after the D1 flip?

I do not. The only thing I see you saying is because SS flipped Town we are scum. I do not see how a suspicion follows from that. It feels like you are saying we are scum because we were incorrect. Which no one has a perfect game almost ever. Unless you are Transcend. Then you just vig every scum.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

do you understand how it is fishy to me that I couldn't get an answer about the hood chat and if it had a list of hood members in the 1st post? thinking it could be scumchat, maybe you didn't want to answer because you weren't sure if scumchat was the same as hoodchat with and didn't want to slip

there are SO many things

[JaeReed]

Is it possible that this just stems from smith and drealmerz being in a hood together and therefore communicating there?

That is possible but I feel it is unlikely because of the fact that he then wouldn't be just skeptical he would be almost certain. The way mhsmith phrases it makes it seem like there is room for doubt.

~~Math

I believe that would be because there is some room for doubt. He might be fairly certain from the hood that drealmerz is town and therefore wasn't redirected, but he can't know that for certain if he's town. If anything, I believe the fact that there's room for doubt points more to mhsmith not being scummy for that (note that I'm not necessarily saying he's town for it, just that it's a null point to me). Does that make sense?

[drealmerz7]

thanks JR, I just did a quick breathing exercise

The DEO, do you follow my suspicion on you after the D1 flip?

I do not. The only thing I see you saying is because SS flipped Town we are scum. I do not see how a suspicion follows from that. It feels like you are saying we are scum because we were incorrect. Which no one has a perfect game almost ever. Unless you are Transcend. Then you just vig every scum.

~~Math

omg NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

go read my (I think first) post of D2 - where I vote you

[JaeReed]

drealmerz, the way I understand it you felt manipulated by The DEO into scumreading S_S after he flipped green, yes?

[The DEO]

LOOK, I'm done figuring out everyone's cases for them when I see a vote

deimos was scum? fine, I'm not making this post to agree or disagree, I'm making this post to tell you need to elaborate YOUR VIEW

so I can see it for sure instead of just be like "well if they think deimos was scum then this must be why because obviously he sucked in the couple posts he made"

BUT YOU NEED TO SHOW ME HOW YOUR BRAIN WORKED TO GET THE VIEW

This is what I need.

All I see is caps lock.

~~Math

[The DEO]

your play is definitely vastly different yepyep

and you are one of my townier reads here, no doubt!

it's like:

town
GE
The DEO

townlean
you


everyone else less townlean or more null->scumleans or pure scum (lycan)

This was at the end of D1.

Most reads are absent a common scum tell but you have us as Town.

Then when the flip came you started after me and Kuroi.

Why? I don't see it. Explain it and your other reads. I have no clue on where you stand on anything.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

noooo, I was genuinely SRing SS!! paranoia set in and I felt like it was possible I was allowed to spearhead the push and kind of the frontman for it, set to take the fall was my fear - BECAUSE : the SS wagon had fizzled and I reinvigorated it, and when I did that, The DEO was back on board all about it, POSSIBLY like they'd decided it wasn't happening and so gave up on it (whereas if it were a real scumread they'd stick with it is the supposition here) and instead switched to focus on RM at the time, but once it was back as the lead wagon on D1, they were happy to pause their RM push and go back to SS and support that lynch. I can see POTENTIAL scumdoings in all of that.

[drealmerz7]

yes, TRing you at the EoD1 because I thought we were seeing the same thing and working well together to lynch scum in SS/KTS - it felt good - and then the flip came

my scumread of you came and went quickly AT THE TIME, but it's still something I can reference back to to having scumpings from you

it's like you're saying that because I didn't establish my SR on you as early as possible that it's invalid now, that's crazy

[The DEO]

Is it possible that this just stems from smith and drealmerz being in a hood together and therefore communicating there?

That is possible but I feel it is unlikely because of the fact that he then wouldn't be just skeptical he would be almost certain. The way mhsmith phrases it makes it seem like there is room for doubt.

~~Math

I believe that would be because there is some room for doubt. He might be fairly certain from the hood that drealmerz is town and therefore wasn't redirected, but he can't know that for certain if he's town. If anything, I believe the fact that there's room for doubt points more to mhsmith not being scummy for that (note that I'm not necessarily saying he's town for it, just that it's a null point to me). Does that make sense?

I don't see it that way. In a hood with a townread I would collaborate.
In such if a redirection flipped my first thought would be "I wasn't redirected into the hood."
If his first thought was to claim vig here where is that surity of him sayinf he wasn't redirected in the hood after me asking several times? I feel he would have had more conviction. I don't like how mhsmith threw shade on it the instant I suggested it.

~~Math

[The DEO]

yes, TRing you at the EoD1 because I thought we were seeing the same thing and working well together to lynch scum in SS/KTS - it felt good - and then the flip came

my scumread of you came and went quickly AT THE TIME, but it's still something I can reference back to to having scumpings from you

it's like you're saying that because I didn't establish my SR on you as early as possible that it's invalid now, that's crazy

I don't see where you had any pings on us D1. Please correct where you did and why.

I am saying that I don't see where you went from top town to topscum and which posts made you think that.

I don't see hunting.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

and yeah, this game is whacked, I don't stand firmly much of anywhere

I think JR is pretty damn towny but I STILL have a couple glaring "hmmms" from him where I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum

CREATURE, HELLOOOO CREATURE?!?! not good feels there at all, but, I couldn't lynch that slot today!

kuroi is probably my biggest SR, but I'm getting told NONONO and I want to trust that

zefiend stinks but I have a hard time seeing the scum-motivation for what he's done

[drealmerz7]

I am saying that I don't see where you went from top town to topscum and which posts made you think that.

I don't see hunting.

~~Math

OMG YOU CAN'T SEE MY BRAIN PATHWAYS GO FUCKING FIGURE?!?!?!?!

WOW

[drealmerz7]

I just tried explaining it to you

wtf

[JaeReed]

I can see POTENTIAL scumdoings in all of that.

That's the thing though isn't it? You can see potential scumdoings in everything anyone does if you want to. What it comes down to is what is more likely, imo.

I do not believe The DEO's play here has been scum motivated moreso than town motivated.

[drealmerz7]

so give me a better SR and make the case!! I'm listening!

[drealmerz7]

you can't SR me because my reads aren't super solid

NOT IN THIS GAME IN THIS GAMESTATE!!!

[drealmerz7]

I mean you can, but, shiiiit, why MEMEME?!??!

I just feel like I get attention drawn to me because I'm more vocal

maybe I should go lurk like KC and kuroi and let you all have less people playing the game

[JaeReed]

I don't see it that way. In a hood with a townread I would collaborate.
In such if a redirection flipped my first thought would be "I wasn't redirected into the hood."
If his first thought was to claim vig here where is that surity of him sayinf he wasn't redirected in the hood after me asking several times? I feel he would have had more conviction. I don't like how mhsmith threw shade on it the instant I suggested it.

~~Math

He could be sure that drealmerz wasn't redirected without being sure that no one else was?

[JaeReed]

I just tried explaining it to you

wtf

The thing is your explanation is a more emotional one. That would require Math to read emotional responses at a fairly high level, I think?

@Math I do not believe there was a point where he stated a reason to scumread your slot on D1, if that's what you're asking for? This was the closest I could find:

hey, The DEO, I'm getting more and more comfortable being thread mason with you cause we see a lot of stuff eye-to-eye here and it does make me comfortable! maybe a little too comfortable for comfort though so I've got my eye on you still

He exhibits some paranoia over potential buddying.

[mhsmith0]

That is possible but I feel it is unlikely because of the fact that he then wouldn't be just skeptical he would be almost certain. The way mhsmith phrases it makes it seem like there is room for doubt.

~~Math

lets see...

On Day 2, RachMarie Boring passed into Valinor.
On Night 2, LycanFire was killed. He was Tito, representing the nation of Yugoslavia, Town Delayed Death 1-Shot Informing Redirector.

Did anyone claim redirected?

~~Math

Not to my knowledge. I'm not really sure why he'd redirect there though, given that he seemed an unlikely scum kill, and a one shot like that is probably best saved for later.

@mhsmith, If Lycan did not use his redirect, then we force scum from making up he did later. The removal of scum narrative without outing PRs is good.

@deo: yeah that's fine. I'm just skeptical he actually did use his redirect in that situation.

so essentially i conceded that it was possible, but unlikely, for the relatively straightforward reason that it was dumb to have used it, and the reason why I thought it was dumb to have used it was what I stated directly.

So to the extent you were suggesting that there was something useful in getting confirmation that no redirect happened, sure, I didn't mind you doing that. But i figured it was largely a waste of time because it was fairly nonsensical of lycan to have used the redirect in that situation. The reason why I wasn't certain of it was that I've seen towns do even stupider things than that (for instance, in the game jaereed just modded, town bizarrely decided to mislynch three of its four PRs - that would be an example of something that exceeded a poor use of a role power in terms of overall derp).

PS lycan redirecting dreal onto himself (as opposed to, say, back onto dreal) seems especially ridiculous. A redirect can be a fun way to get scum to target themselves with a night kill or other action; lycan redirecting anyone to target lycan makes MUCH less sense than lycan redirecting someone to literally anyone other than lycan (which agian makes rather little sense in the situation)

[JaeReed]

so give me a better SR and make the case!! I'm listening!

...............................................................................................................................

I feel like I need those breathing exercises after seeing this.

Remember my case on Vedith? I've asked multiple times what you thought of that and you've always defaulted to talking about Vaxkiller instead. I want your opinion on why what Vedith did D1 and how he positioned himself there and stayed off wagons is in any way town indicative or not scum indicative enough for a vote, please.

[drealmerz7]

because I'm not going to vote a slot based on D1 of the previous owner of the slot, that seems reckless

I totally see it as scummy from vedith on D1, absolutely no doubt, but, my experience with vedith doesn't make that damning IN THE SLIGHTEST, he plays pretty fucking scummy as town

the kind of player who probably prefer to live to the end-game and lose rather than die early and win - a selfish player who was likely positioning himself to best suit himself in the long run - I can see him doing that as scum or town, but that is just from the limited exposure I have of him, I have to keep that in mind

it's not damning or excusable, its simply a base to go from, and from there, is why it turns to vax, he's that slot now and has produced MUCH MORE content than vedith did

[drealmerz7]

how many completed games you have with vedith?

[JaeReed]

PS lycan redirecting dreal onto himself (as opposed to, say, back onto dreal) seems especially ridiculous. A redirect can be a fun way to get scum to target themselves with a night kill or other action; lycan redirecting anyone to target lycan makes MUCH less sense than lycan redirecting someone to literally anyone other than lycan (which agian makes rather little sense in the situation)

I don't believe it's so ridiculous in this context.

Lycan thought he was going to be pushed to be the next mislynch. Given his ability should have had him live for this day phase, he could have redirected his scumread drealmerz onto himself in order to both prove that he's town, and prove drealmerz was scum through his death after redirecting drealmerz to him. He did clearly say something about us not taking him alive, didn't he?

In that case we still circle back to what FA was saying though. Something also vanillaized him for the kill to not be delayed.

In that case it's 3 scenarios:
1) Scum!drealmerz was meant to kill elsewhere while a buddy vanillaized Lycan and got kill redirected onto Lycan
2) Scum!drealmerz is also a vanillaizer and meant to kill/vanillaize either Lycan or elsewhere and got redirected onto Lycan
2) Town!drealmerz meant to kill Lycan with a vig shot and scum vanillaized Lycan so the delayed death wouldn't cause issues with their next likely mislynch