Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

[havingfitz]

NV (3) - SnarkySnowman, boring, ConManMick

Why no votes gents?

Why the worry, you in a hurry?

So you don't have an answer? You suspect no one enough to vote them?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm here and reading up now.

Apologies for my absence.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah ok. Yeah re-reading again I still don't like Grey's play.
VOTE: Grey

This vote is awful.

My point being...if someone does something you find questionable...that doesn't automatically mean you are scum reading them. Especially after further clarification by that person. And saying I am scum reading someone I did not say that about is a bit misleading btw.

Nah, there has to be something that makes you question it - otherwise you would just let it slide. I also said I 'assumed' and IMO it was a fair assumption to make.

Did my "misleading" comment strike a nerve?

Yeah, that's exactly why I wanted to pull you up on what you said. You said what you did the way you did for this exact situation to arise.

{Boring, Fitz, AH}
{Moz, Facy}
{Hawk, Snowman, Mick}
{BBT, Uzi, Empking}
{Grey}

@MOD Update the OP to show replacements

Talk about some of these reads - mostly the strong town reads on Fitz and AH and why you have Emp below Mick and Snowman.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually just skimmed Mick's ISO cuz he was one of the nerds I needed to relook at when I got the chance.
His vote was placed in the RVS stage which still concerns me.
I'm okay with running up snowman or Mick.
VOTE: Snowman

You're OK with running up CMM or Snowman...so why switch from CMM to Snowman?

Why Grey here? It feels like you should voting for Fancy or Fitz right now.

Grey had a nice, shiny wagon going. We're on page 20 already and still nowhere near a lynch - town are in a pretty shitty position already and I was attempting to avoid that with early pressure and an early wagon/claim.

Shade throwing and the hop on the Ali wagon.

Can you talk about where Emp is shade throwing? Can you also confirm that you're totally OK with Alisae's hop onto the Grey wagon and her voting of CMM/Snowman.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fancypants I liked his post 20 and post 89. Reading that as not pro-town says he possibly wasn't super aware of the player list or at least didn't want to draw attention to that reaction test obviously like Uzi did. Not sure if this means he's town or not but at least he's not reacting too quickly.

Man, I cant disagree with this part of the post any more than I do. Scum wouldn't want to draw attention to a reaction test (in the hopes that a Mason outs themselves) and they also wouldn't want to react too quickly (scum usually let town react first to try and gauge the flow of the thread). Your town read on FP makes no sense to me at all.

89 I like cause taking a stab at early reads when RVS is kinda naturally winding down is good for generating discussion even with soft reads. This is town to me.

He took a stab at early reads....after scum reading someone for stating an early town read. You don't have a problem with that?

Fritz seems to genuinely trying to ScumHunt so I do like that.

Second time I have seen this - where is fitz 'genuinely' scum hunting?

Hi Hawk, I see you posted on page 11 but did not respond to my questions for you.

So I have reposted them to give you a second chance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is there anyone here to talk to in real time?

Hate having to do multiple catch up posts one after another.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LUV possible Ali buddy. Idk why town would bend over backwards here to speak for someone else.

I don't get why you unvoted Alisae when you still think he is scum?

VOTE: Snowman

Why Snowman?

I wanna sheep this shit as well. I also don't particularly townread them for fosing people who aren't voting when we're less then 10 pages in. Seems like kinda a shit reason to fos a group of people to me.
VOTE: Empking

Were you not just voting/pushing on CMM/Snowman for not being active? And now you're voting Emp for FoS the people not voting? I don't like that at all.

Honestly I still don't have the best reads but I wouldn't mind hearing more from Emp.

VOTE: EmpKing

This vote is disgustingly opportunistic.

@mod, I hate being so picky, but -Grey- was left off the VC, and our votes seem out of order (I'm not sure if tracking vote order is required, but it can sometimes affect VCA).

Fixed!

Just to confirm this - the VC is still incorrect. Mod, the VCs are pretty important for people who like to use VCA. Hawk should be the last name on the Emp wagon on this page.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Hawk

This 100% needs to happen.

[havingfitz]

Is there anyone here to talk to in real time?

Hate having to do multiple catch up posts one after another.

Here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk to me about Hawk. Willing to lynch him?

[tojam2]

-Grey- has been prodded

[havingfitz]

I don't recall my read on him. Other games.. long weekend and lack of overall activity in this game has me a bit out of sync. I'll look. While I do....where do you stand on Emp, Mozi and Ali?

[tojam2]

@BBT, it's going to be a nightmare when I have 4+ pages a day to go through, bearing in mind I've reduced my spreadsheet to the smallest size possible already so I can split screen this game and the spreadsheet, adding a column for vote time would be too big.

VC 1.9

Empking (L-4) - Lil Uzi Vert, Alisae, Hawk
mozamis (L-4) - FancyPants, Antihuman, -Grey-
Alisae (L-5) - havingfitz, Empking
ConManMick (L-6) - mozamis
Hawk (L-6) - BlueBloodedToffee

NV (3) - SnarkySnowman, boring, ConManMick

(expired on 2017-01-25 11:09:00)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Emp hasn't struck me one way or another, I thought Moz was town but I didn't like some of their posting around pages 11-12 and it's the exact same for Alisae. I thought his early game posting was pretty town but his vote hopping and baseless votes around pages 10-12 have me seriously doubting that read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, I just voted for Hawk a couple of posts up...

[havingfitz]

Looking back at my posts I have barely mentioned Hawk. So he hasn't been someone on my radar.

I agree with your 3 assessments at first glance aside from town reading Ali early.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you have an opinion on Hawk now?

[havingfitz]

Not after reading your ISO wrt him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about after reading his ISO?

[havingfitz]

I'll look his ISO over but I don't recall suspecting him. Not sure I move off Ali for him unless his ISO changes my mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

When someone doesn't appear on your radar that should be a concern for you straight away tbh.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reads as of reread up to page 8:

{boring, Alisae}
{BBT}
{FancyPants, havingfitz, Hawk}
{SnarkySnowman, Antihuman, Empking}
{mozamis, ConManMick}
{LilUziVert}

Can you talk about the 180 on Alisae and the scum read on Uzi please?

{FancyPants, havingfitz, Hawk}
{SnarkySnowman, Antihuman, Empking, LilUziVert}
{BBT}
{mozamis, ConManMick}

Can you talk about the town read on Hawk and the 180 on myself?

Hey Grey, if I said BBT was scum, would you buy it at all?

Moz is high because tone seems to be coming from town along with how they've been playing.

What about their tone tells you they're town? Can you give specific examples of 'how they've been playing' that makes you think they're town as well please?

[havingfitz]

His ISO is short enough to do a post by post:

ISO 0- RVS fluff. Votes Grey.

ISO 1- Defense of Ali's "reaction test." Feels like Ali always does this. needs to do some digging. No opinion on whether Ali does this as town or scum or both.

ISO 2- Clarification on defense. Says he is new to Mafiascum...3 games with Ali of which only one w/Ali is done. So basically...no AI meta on Ali starting out fast. Says will dig more (again).

ISO 3- Mentions his vote is RVS but he ses no reason to unvote. [I can think of a reason...Grey is at L-3 for no stated reason] Town reading Ali, FP and boring.

ISO 4- Says he is townreading Ali for gut and prior experience. Which = 3 games of which only one is done for Ali. Gives meh rationales for town reading the three above. More defense of Ali. Offers a no read on Emp (who he votes ~100 posts later). Wishy washy comments on LUV. Likes my scumhunting.

ISO 5- Unvotes Grey. Not voting Ali yet because doesn't feel he is scummy. [So why say yet?]. Says meta and aggression are NAI...[so why go on and on about how Ali always starts games this way? i.e. meta] Makes comments that seem to be shading mason talk for which Ali is mostly responsible for.

ISO 6- Explains prior mason comment about mislynches being easier if masons agree. meh. Get's where Grey is coming from. So friends now?

ISO 7- Gives Grey a little flak for unvoting Ali w/o comment. Votes Snowman (who Ali is also voting) as unconcerned town or coasting scum.

ISO 8- fluff

ISO 9- fluff

ISO 10- Doesn't have the best reads....wants to hear more from Emp so follows Ali and boring onto Emp wagon. Puts Emp at L-3. [So doesn't seem to have any problem putting people at L-3 for little of no solid reasoning. With two groups of three {masons and mafia} that he is concerned could make mislynches easier putting people at L-3 for not much to go on seems careless].

ISO 11- Defends Snowman vote by saying not scum reading...just pressuring for more content (paraphrasing).

ISO 12- Begs off pressure from Grey (wrt the snowman vote) and says he will find a better place for his vote {though he is not on Snowman anymore...he is voting Emp].

ISO 13- RL slowing him down. Will try to catch up tonight [Monday]. crickets....~3 hours from prod status.

Conclusion....yeah...not liking Hawk on closer review. Still don't like Ali either though. Who ever has best chance at getting voted out has my support.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hawk is doing just enough to coast by whilst we have 13 players around and where his absence is not as easily noticed.

His posts pretty much consist of nothing for the entire game to date.

Classic D1 scum behaviour - especially when you add in how chirpy he gets when talking about theory (scum always feel comfortable discussing theory over anything else).

Hawk is a great lynch for today. Let's do it!

[havingfitz]

Ali wagon not getting traction.

Sure

VOTE: Hawk