Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

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Post Post #436 (isolation #0) » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:14 pm

Post by Ether »

3.) Try to minimize the number of newbies who'll sign up for non-newbie games and then flake.

Grr. Wrong account.
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Post Post #493 (isolation #1) » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:54 am

Post by Ether »

I'm not really clear why more SEs and ICs aren't put into games when there's a fair amount of backlog? I know that we can't go back to the 3:4 IC:newbie games of my childhood, but the signup lists seem long enough to get at least a few games with a better ratio when it builds up.
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Post Post #495 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:21 am

Post by Ether »

You could use that argument to cut out SEs and ICs entirely. The games are
for
newbies, sure, but more ICs and SEs is a good goal if we're trying to get those newbies educated, interested in all the odd theory and potential and playstyles the game has to offer, and start them up with some contacts.

I think the newbie queue is an important gutter to keep the demographic that is statistically most likely to flake out of other queues. But if I wanted to introduce somebody I liked to mafia, and keep them around, I would probably tell that person not to bother with it.
Last edited by Ether on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #3) » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:37 am

Post by Ether »

I don't really agree that they're sufficient. (I wouldn't think this even if every individual IC has gotten much better since I last paid attention to the Road to Rome, but I kind of suspect they haven't.) I think the long/none backlog comment is pretty obviously a false dichotomy, too; when it actually got short, you could go back to rationing until more ICs showed up. That would strictly be an improvement over the current situation.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #4) » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:57 am

Post by Ether »

Strongly disagree. The amount that an extra IC, even a less competent one and certainly a strong one, can help and encourage newbies just by being there and demonstrating that every IC is an individual and that there are all sorts of techniques that different ICs will swear by and that Mafiascum produces all sorts of players, is huge. And when the one-IC system doesn't always have good ICs to showcase, as you've agreed, that demonstration is more important than ever!
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Post Post #508 (isolation #5) » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:37 am

Post by Ether »

I can /in to IC if we make the switch, but I was hit or miss when I stopped playing (and also throughout my whole career), and I'm kind of scared to get as invested in mafia as I once did.

Still, as someone with more than enough games down discussing how we could use more ICs, I figure I had to offer.
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Post Post #510 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:55 am

Post by Ether »

I know. I think that's fair, but that we should still take advantage of the backlog while it's there.

Really I'm just trying to peer pressure other people to IC. I'm prepared to join in myself, but I think that my ICing alone has a chance of backfiring horribly.
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Post Post #628 (isolation #7) » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:07 am

Post by Ether »

Uh...so what is the proposed newbie setup right now? I really think you're overcomplicating it to hell with strongmen and such. (I liked simple semiopens like F11 when I did play, but I haven't actually played in almost a year, so I admit that maybe I am not the ideal audience.)

I still feel strongly that there should be more ICs per game, and putting in more SEs is not solving that problem. I am not really opposed to throwing in more SEs, but they are not role models. They are random people with a minimum standard of three games which might or might not still be ongoing.

I think it would be interesting to PM a survey to every single first-time player as soon as it dies/replaces out/its game ends. I guess that could be a new mod duty? That's distinct from retention rates, though.

What kind of concrete standards can we implement, that don't rely as heavily on my subjective judgement?
I don't think it can be done totally objectively, but I think it can be done without placing the burden on you. Like, any first-time person with IC cred is allowed to play a newbie game, and if it flakes or the mod thinks it didn't cut it (or the players think so and the mod doesn't veto that) then it can't join the queue/replace IC slots for some amount of time, which increases every time the player gets a strike. Maybe with some volunteer council to secondguess the mod's stance if the player wants to appeal it.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #8) » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:20 am

Post by Ether »

Well now that's just tacky.
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Post Post #641 (isolation #9) » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:16 am

Post by Ether »

Unless there's something I'm missing--and I acknowledge that I haven't played or looked at Little Italy in a long time--I just don't really think the strongman has any place in a newbie game.
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Post Post #648 (isolation #10) » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:32 am

Post by Ether »

Half the people I mentioned this thread to asked me to clarify what a strongman even is. These are, like, class of 2005-2007 types. I kind of think that says something about the role's normality. Like I said, if every other Little Italy game has them these days and I'm just letting my old age shine through, I guess that's one thing, but if they're not in vogue there yet, I don't think it's the Road to Rome's place to toss them into 1/4th of all games for newbies.
As I move my vote
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It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #650 (isolation #11) » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:46 am

Post by Ether »

Well, thanks to its placement among the cop/doctor setup, a mafia roleblocker seems like the obvious replacement. A gaoler, a town roleblocker and a scum roleblocker in the same setup seems like a headache, but I guess you could either shift columns or just say that the scum roleblocker trumps either of the town ones, stick with your gaoler > town roleblocker judgment and call it a day.

Honestly I'm sort of uncertain about having a town roleblocker in the first place?
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Post Post #858 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by Ether »

F11! Here are some fun facts about F11!
  • We talk about how mountainous games are unwinnable. But at least 72 games of the no-power roles subsetup were run, and obviously town didn't lose every single one of those. Town won 31.94% of the time. With random lynches, the odds would be about 29.84%, soooooo...yeah, it's basically a random shot. I think morale for these games is probably better than the up-front mountainous games towns keep losing, plus scum don't know right off the bat what they can get away with. (Also, the sample size for 2:11 games is pretty low. For good reason.)
  • Town actually won slightly more in the Doctor-only setup than in the Cop-only setup. It's a little less than a 4% difference, but the point is that doctors did hold their own just as well.
  • By August 2015, the cop/doctor/roleblocker subsetup of Matrix6 had town winning at 56.8%; the town rate for cop-only was 51.1%. (The more up-to-date odds listed here are slightly lower for each, but I think the daytalk games are in those, so I'm sticking with the old ones.) In F11, the odds for cop/doctor/roleblocker were 44.7%, and the odds for cop-only were only 35.37--a difference of more than 15%.
I don't have an explanation for that last one. I just like telling it to people.
mhsmith0 wrote:So I've actually been mulling over the balance issues associated with A and 3 (i.e. the 1-shot BP just isn't strong enough and/or tends to just get policy lynched forthe claim since it's unverifiable), and I'm actually leaning against the idea of switching to a universal backup. The reason for this is that if the 1-shot BP goes away, then any time a tracker sees someone go somewhere he/she will KNOW that it's a tracker/doc scenario, and I think that may be a bit TOO much knowledge to give the town.
What? That's already true in the current version with the bulletproof. The odds of the tracker targeting the doctor are low, and while there
are
fun things the tracker can do with that, it's not really that big a deal.

The odds of a bulletproof getting lynched is around 15%, which isn't that bad. I don't think they need to be ICs, especially since bulletproof ICs aren't a thing anywhere else.
Also the newbie queue already has something else called ICs and it would be weird.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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