Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!


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Post Post #1400 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Post by camn »

VOTE COUNT 1 . 15
  • Secret Agent Jin ---
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    BTD6_MAKER ---------
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    TheRealGin-N-Tonic -
    1 ( Secret Agent Jin, Pine )
    L- 6

    Nachomamma8 --------
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    Fate ---------------
    3 ( SirCakez, Aristophanes, Prism, )
    L- 4

    drealmerz7 ---------
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    Monokuma -----------
    1 ( Nachomamma8, )
    L- 6

    mastina ------------
    3 ( drealmerz7, Vaxkiller, BTD6_MAKER, )
    L- 4

    Aeronaut -----------
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    Prism --------------
    2 ( mastina, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, )
    L- 5

    SirCakez -----------
    2 ( Aeronaut, Fate, )
    L- 5

    Vaxkiller ----------
    0 ( )
    L- 7

    Aristophanes -------
    0 ( )
    L- 7


    Not Voting -
    1 ( Monokuma, )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to SUMMON CAMN'S WRATH
Deadline is in (expired on 2017-01-22 18:00:00)
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Post Post #1401 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:02 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 1399, Prism wrote:I think people that aren't named mastina really need to look at what I'm actually saying here. I'm not saying I'm ignoring mastina out of laziness or that it's impossible to glean alignment from their posts. It's that whatever effort is expended doing that, I can likely get 2x-5x the payout from diverting it elsewhere. It's fundamentally
not worth it.
So, just not worth reading is your verdict then?
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Post Post #1402 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:02 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

Lets get rid of lurker slot

VOTE: SAJ
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Post Post #1403 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:06 pm

Post by Prism »

In post 1401, Aristophanes wrote:So, just not worth reading is your verdict then?
In comparison to other players, correct, I'm currently working on rereading Nacho and Vax. Offensive? Yes, but extremely pragmatic.
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Post Post #1404 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1388, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:mastin explain
You made that claim early in the game,
prior
to reading my theory stuff.

After you read my theory stuff, and after we had interacted in-thread, can you say you would have made that post?

Because...
In post 1270, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Then you look at my history and you'll see like an 8 hour block of me reading all of Mastins work on her accounts and wiki pages. I essentially crash coursed how to be a better player in general, improved 10fold and now I don't think a single person thinks I'm scum anymore because I've been actually able to good post now that I know how to be an effective player getting my points across.
In post 1271, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:This isn't about the game but seriously gotta thank Mastin for her hard work. It's helped me grow immensely and she should feel the love for what she puts into the community to improve the player base as a whole
...This certainly suggests otherwise. While I'll link to theorycrafting I've done before, whenever I do so I almost always include the disclaimer that "Your mileage may vary on this", "this is some pretty common sense, I'm not unique in having said it", "some of this stuff is old and obsolete, or was of questionable validity to begin with", and the like. I will say exactly why it's NOT perfect, why it should be taken with grains of salt.

And while I'll brag about my scumgame any ol' day, I don't go bragging about my towngame. My scumgame? Probably in the top ten players on mafiascum. THERE I have an ego, sure, yeah. I'll admit it fully that in terms of being a scumfuck, I have an ego, because I see being scum like being a supervillain. Supervillains are defined as having an ego. So THERE, I will say I am good, because yeah I know I am.

Not so much as town. Nobody knows how much I suck more than I do. I might (MIGHT) be in the top 10% of town players on the site--but if so, only because of how shitty town players across the site are. And I'd still be in the lower percentile. And worth mentioning: we have 19694 members. Yeah, not all of them are active; yeah, that includes alts and hydras. Butstill, top 10% would still mean that there are potentially up to 200 players on our site (by my mental math anyway) who're better than I am. Not the hallmark of a great town player. Not the realm of someone who has an ego.

If I actually had the accuracy rate to back me, I could afford to have an ego: "I'm good, I KNOW I'm good, so it doesn't matter if it looks like arrogance, I know I'm good anyway so I'm probably right even when I'm wrong!". But since I don't? I suck, I know I suck, so it absolutely matters and while I can display confidence when I hold it, I absolutely need to be honest when I do not, because I'm wrong even when I'm right.


And right now, I feel like I'm wrong yet I'm pushing anyway because there's really nothing else you can do. I lack confidence. I have three choices: quit the game and give up. Stay in the background and hope on some unspecified future date that things get better and I gain it back. Or, in spite of knowing I'm probably wrong, push and see if that push gives anything productive.

I like option number three.
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Post Post #1405 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Post by Prism »

In post 1402, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Lets get rid of lurker slot

VOTE: SAJ
How'd you go from me being scum, and having all of these points against me that you couldn't post, and agreeing with Mastina here that I couldn't be doing this as town, to pushing a lurker lynch?
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Post Post #1406 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:08 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1393, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Can we just get rid of SAJ as a compromise?
Fuck yes we can!
Would love it.
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Post Post #1407 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 1405, Prism wrote:
In post 1402, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Lets get rid of lurker slot

VOTE: SAJ
How'd you go from me being scum, and having all of these points against me that you couldn't post, and agreeing with Mastina here that I couldn't be doing this as town, to pushing a lurker lynch?
Your not worth my time and energy. Going for the lurker lynch. Just being pragmatic about it is all
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Post Post #1408 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Post by Prism »

In post 1407, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Your not worth my time and energy. Going for the lurker lynch. Just being pragmatic about it is all
Well, okay.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic
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Post Post #1409 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:12 pm

Post by Prism »

Even if you're drunk I'd still imagine lynching the mafia to be the most pragmatic approach of all, so persuading others to join you on voting me might assist you in getting that lynch through.
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Post Post #1410 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:12 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 1404, mastina wrote:
In post 1388, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:mastin explain
You made that claim early in the game,
prior
to reading my theory stuff.

After you read my theory stuff, and after we had interacted in-thread, can you say you would have made that post?

Because...
In post 1270, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Then you look at my history and you'll see like an 8 hour block of me reading all of Mastins work on her accounts and wiki pages. I essentially crash coursed how to be a better player in general, improved 10fold and now I don't think a single person thinks I'm scum anymore because I've been actually able to good post now that I know how to be an effective player getting my points across.
In post 1271, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:This isn't about the game but seriously gotta thank Mastin for her hard work. It's helped me grow immensely and she should feel the love for what she puts into the community to improve the player base as a whole
...This certainly suggests otherwise. While I'll link to theorycrafting I've done before, whenever I do so I almost always include the disclaimer that "Your mileage may vary on this", "this is some pretty common sense, I'm not unique in having said it", "some of this stuff is old and obsolete, or was of questionable validity to begin with", and the like. I will say exactly why it's NOT perfect, why it should be taken with grains of salt.

And while I'll brag about my scumgame any ol' day, I don't go bragging about my towngame. My scumgame? Probably in the top ten players on mafiascum. THERE I have an ego, sure, yeah. I'll admit it fully that in terms of being a scumfuck, I have an ego, because I see being scum like being a supervillain. Supervillains are defined as having an ego. So THERE, I will say I am good, because yeah I know I am.

Not so much as town. Nobody knows how much I suck more than I do. I might (MIGHT) be in the top 10% of town players on the site--but if so, only because of how shitty town players across the site are. And I'd still be in the lower percentile. And worth mentioning: we have 19694 members. Yeah, not all of them are active; yeah, that includes alts and hydras. Butstill, top 10% would still mean that there are potentially up to 200 players on our site (by my mental math anyway) who're better than I am. Not the hallmark of a great town player. Not the realm of someone who has an ego.

If I actually had the accuracy rate to back me, I could afford to have an ego: "I'm good, I KNOW I'm good, so it doesn't matter if it looks like arrogance, I know I'm good anyway so I'm probably right even when I'm wrong!". But since I don't? I suck, I know I suck, so it absolutely matters and while I can display confidence when I hold it, I absolutely need to be honest when I do not, because I'm wrong even when I'm right.


And right now, I feel like I'm wrong yet I'm pushing anyway because there's really nothing else you can do. I lack confidence. I have three choices: quit the game and give up. Stay in the background and hope on some unspecified future date that things get better and I gain it back. Or, in spite of knowing I'm probably wrong, push and see if that push gives anything productive.

I like option number three.
My apologizes for earlier confusion. carry on
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Post Post #1411 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:14 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 1409, Prism wrote:Even if you're drunk I'd still imagine lynching the mafia to be the most pragmatic approach of all, so persuading others to join you on voting me might assist you in getting that lynch through.
I don't think you get it sweetie. This player list is of such a caliber that we simply wont catch scum D1 and i've accepted it. A lurker lynch is just a mislynch down the road, I'd rather it be done now instead of later. This also forces scum to pick a kill and let us reap all the benefits of the info. WITHOUT the scum being able to use a lynch as a framing tool if a lynch on an active voice occurred.

Also look at the VCA. It isn't going fucking anywhere and we all know that. We are literally like goats just fucking ramming each other in the head going no where.
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Post Post #1412 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1399, Prism wrote:It's fundamentally
not worth it.
Is it fundamentally not worth it if, say, we both survive to see lylo?

What happens then?

And yes I know scum should kill me but who the fuck knows maybe they don't specifically because I am wrong.

Did that thought ever once cross your mind?

That maybe, just maybe, me being wrong would keep me alive to see lylo, and that you being kept alive to see lylo, with me
hounding
on you since D1 could...oh, I dunno...cost you the whole fucking game?

Because that seems like an important thought to have.
You bet yer ass I've had it.

So damn straight it's worth it. If you address my concerns now, they won't exist on later days. Pure and simple.
Now, it's true that I could be killed. In that case, you wouldn't need to address my concerns, sure. I'd be dead, and because of my claim, people wouldn't really question why I was dead. But what if I'm not? What if, say, I have doctor protection on me the whole game? What if scum shoot elsewhere the whole game, for whatever reason? (Pine not wanting me dead. Fearing a doc protection on me. My attack on you helping scum out enough that they risk me being alive.)

Those are things which absolutely should be on your mind.

So I'll repeat once more.
Don't fucking ignore me
.
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Post Post #1413 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 1408, Prism wrote:
In post 1407, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Your not worth my time and energy. Going for the lurker lynch. Just being pragmatic about it is all
Well, okay.

VOTE: Gin N Tonic
Someone's salty I use their arguments against them. Learn to not insults players and I wont use your own words against you.

Respect every player, regardless of how much they type. I'm sorry, I'm a little fucking heated about it. It's a dick move.
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Post Post #1414 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:18 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1409, Prism wrote:Even if you're drunk I'd still imagine lynching the mafia to be the most pragmatic approach of all, so persuading others to join you on voting me might assist you in getting that lynch through.
Gin was parodying you if that wasn't clear enough.
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Post Post #1415 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:21 pm

Post by mastina »

Also,
VOTE: Secret Agent Jin.
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Post Post #1416 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:31 pm

Post by Prism »

In post 1413, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Someone's salty I use their arguments against them. Learn to not insults players and I wont use your own words against you.

Respect every player, regardless of how much they type. I'm sorry, I'm a little fucking heated about it. It's a dick move.
Last ~7 posts I've made it clear that I think I went too far and tried to phrase it in the least offensive way I can, as well as move on from the subject. I've already apologized for the comments that went overboard, and even for the fact that I feel this way about mastina's posts to begin with. As for voting you, I did that to get you to elaborate on the vote, which you did slightly, so thank you.

I'll make myself crystal clear: I just want to win. If you want to think I'm Satan made real, just out to demean others and flex my internet ego, that's perfectly okay with me and I even understand. I'm not going to get angry or salty about it. I got tangled up in an ego war which helped no one, and it was largely my fault. My point right now is that it's a circus. I'm not interested in continuing it. Trying to fight me on it just perpetuates it.

Your post (We're not lynching mafia today so let's lynch a lurker) implies that you lack confidence in the read on me. Your posts give the impression that you think my ignoring mastina is more likely to come from mafia. You said earlier that you had more against me that you couldn't post yet. My question for you is twofold: 1) What town motivation do you see in my ignoring mastina that causes the lack of confidence in your scumread on me? 2) What were the other negatives you had in mind on me from before?
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Post Post #1417 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:35 pm

Post by Prism »

Looking back it looks like I just apologized for feeling that way to begin with, so mastina I'm sorry that I was too abrasive to start. As I said before, in beginning posts this was purposeful to nudge you in the direction I wanted your posts to go, but I definitely crossed the line starting some point in the last few pages.
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Post Post #1418 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:38 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

you're both still playing spectacular mafia

I love passion

*hands you both a bong*
balance among all things
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Post Post #1419 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:39 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

Look, I'm going to be real honest, Camn doesn't want us to get personal and I'm not trusting of myself not sober to not take it to far.

I have mad respect for Mastin and took it as an offense of my own when you said you were ignoring her. It's more of a personal thing than it is related to your alignment and I don't want to dabble in it. I'm very protective and blah blah say what you want, it's just been a week with Mastin but the relationship is one of a student and his master and we all know how we feel about those we look up too.

I'm going to come back when i've sobered up and judge you from there.
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Post Post #1420 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:41 pm

Post by Prism »

It's fine and I understand how you feel. My comments to you were just trying to get back on track. Thanks for stepping away for a bit and I look forward to hearing more from you tomorrow.
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Post Post #1421 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:44 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1416, Prism wrote:I got tangled up in an ego war which helped no one, and it was largely my fault.
Okay.
So technically, by sharing this secret with you right here in the now, I could be shooting myself in the foot. By saying this right now, I could be opening the door to scum successfully tricking me by mimicking this tactic, by using this against me at some future point in the game.

But I don't care.

You need to listen to this post. Promise you, this is a post you want to listen to, because this isn't about me.
It's about you.

You absolutely have nothing to be ashamed of by entering into an ego war.
Nothing at all.

In fact...that was MY goal all along.

Because ego wars have a funny way of making a player's alignment more obvious to me. I engaged in an early one with drealmerz. I exited with a townread on him. In fact, most of my townreads this game have been from an ego war--Gin I believe I had one. And now, with you, I have had one, and the result as of right now? Is, in fact, a townread.

I call this the magical power of talking. Just talking. That was why I was talking the way I was during the early parts of the game. It was, in a sense, bait for an ego war: me to show off
my
alignment to everyone, and also, by entering into an ego war, for me to get the alignment of those I debated, those I combated with.

Not all fights need lead to violent, neverending conflict. In fact, most fights resolve with both parties happy at the outcome. Because through the magic of talking, just talking, even--no, ESPECIALLY--in what feels like an ego-fueled rampage, we get to come to a common understanding of each other. You know how in Bleach, Ichigo Kurosaki said that whenever he clashed blades with someone, he just kinda...got to
know
them? That's not some mystical anime protagonist power. It's an actually real thing we do. It's just that instead of fighting with blades, we do it with our works.

We have conflict. We express our viewpoints, our emotions, our baseline beliefs, through these conflicts. And through these conflicts, we can better get to know one another. And from this better knowledge base, from this understanding, we generate increasingly more accurate reads. So to you, what was a useless exchange that helped nobody?

Was quite the opposite to me. It's helped me a lot, and gotten me to be an ally for you. When others come online to read (namely, players like Nacho), they, too, will back me up on this, that you're town. (They already know I'm town.) This exchange showed your alignment. You didn't think it did. But for me, now I see more or less what amounts to a town picture, and not a scum picture.

So you're town. We've gained that much. Talking is an effective scumhunting tactic. The words may get heated, even vitriolic. But they weren't worthless. They had meaning. They had purpose. They had intent. Perhaps not the meaning that you had intended, but existing all the same.
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Post Post #1422 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:50 pm

Post by mastina »

Like. Let me put it to you this way.
Thanks to this exchange?
I am 100% certain Gin-And-Tonic and Prism are town.
Fuck all my other reads, they can go to hell, you can scrap them all as far as I'm concerned in comparison to this.

Gin is town.
Prism is town.
I am town.
We build the townbloc from there.

We can make assumptions here and there if you'd like.
Fate-town; Nacho-town; dreal-town; Monokuma-town; whatever the fuck you'd like.
I'd have to go over things to give you a better readslist, of thoughts, of the balance of possibilities versus probabilities right now.

I never throw around 100%. Ever. Like, ever ever, will I say that someone is 100% town. That's not a number to be taken lightly. I'm so paranoid of everything, fear being wrong consistently that I never say it. Maybe I say 99.99%, but never absolute 100% and yet, here I am, right now, in the moment, thanks to this exchange telling you: I have no doubt. No fear. No paranoia. No thoughts of them being scum, absolutely none at all.

Not a bluff. Not an exaggeration. Just pure sheer simple townness. That TheRealGin-And-Tonic and Prism are both town, here. I will bet the game on it. I will risk losing because of it. I will put absolute faith in it.

That's not something I say lightly.

And that means it was worth it, wouldn't you say?
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Post Post #1423 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:54 pm

Post by mastina »

Preliminary readslist would be something like:
TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Prism
-
Fate
-
drealmerz
-
Nachomamma8
-
SirCakez
Vaxkiller
Monokuma
Aeronaut
Aristophanes
-
Secret Agent Jin

But this requires a serious rethink to refine further.
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16670
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA

Post Post #1424 (ISO) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Post by mastina »

Forgot BTD6. That'd make it:

TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Prism
-
Fate
-
drealmerz
-
Nachomamma8
-
SirCakez
Vaxkiller
Monokuma
Aeronaut
Aristophanes
BTD6_maker
-
Secret Agent Jin

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