Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hawk's rebuttal was mostly theory talk and wishy-washy comments that didn't really go anywhere. If I feel the need to respond to it later today when I have more time, I'll do so.

I haven't dodged your question - you asked why he is being lynched for coasting. I'm saying that's not why he is being lynched. What more do you want me to say?

[Antihuman]

Hawk's rebuttal was mostly theory talk and wishy-washy comments that didn't really go anywhere.

This is a cop out.

I haven't dodged your question - you asked why he is being lynched for coasting. I'm saying that's not why he is being lynched. What more do you want me to say?

Wait a sec, just before you claimed I said he's being lynched for inactivity, now you acknowledge I asked you about coasting.
What is he being lynched for then ?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You want to play Semantics?

Because I'm not about that life. I said inactivity, you said you didn't say that, so I changed it to what you said.

I see that you're going to try and pick a problem with whatever I say. I'm cool with that.

Crack on.

[Antihuman]

No, my problem is you twisting my words to dismiss my arguments when you were clearly aware of doing that. And don't you play offended princess right now.

[Antihuman]

What is Hawk being lynched for?

[-Grey-]

What is Hawk being lynched for?

Idk, ask scum

[-Grey-]

BBT, what is your read on havingfitz?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Grey linked why.

Thinking fitz is town right now - obviously helps that he is helping me lynch scum.

[-Grey-]

Lol.

[boring]

UNVOTE:
I really thought Hawk was scum. I'm not sure now.

VOTE: Empking

One of these two fellas is bound to be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What has made you change your mind boring?

[boring]

Either we have some very bold scum in this game, or Hawk isn't scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain a bit more?

I don't see what has changed your mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, the Hawk wagon is the first (?) wagon to face real resistance. That also tells me we're on the right track.

[FancyPants]

@Mod, please replace me. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[boring]

I'm sorry, BBT. If I turn out to be wrong about any major points leading to my conclusion, I'll explain the whole thing later. Until then, we can call it "gut".

Empking is still scummy for basically the same reasons as Hawk, except Empking's defense wasn't as good. A wagon stalling from apparent apathy suggests that there are people resisting it, who are unwilling to voice their resistance. That's scummier than open, active resistance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, can we get a VC please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not townreading him but I feel like his lynch's just "too easy". I can't recall the last time I lynched somebody for 'not being towny enough' and they actually flipped scum. Which is also why I'm not too happy about my prolonged stay on moz's wagon

.

Snarky has given us non-sheep reads. For example, BBT isn't exactly a heavy favorite for today's lynch. He feels confident enough to pop in, say he thinks BBT is scum, and then turn his back. It's a very bold move for scum. If he was scum, he'd more more likely to sheep and agree with the majority.

I can see your reasoning but I don't think this is necessarily a rule. However, I don't see him as scum too.

This post is nasssty.

What about the Hawk lynch was 'easy'? Where did you get that from?

I detect a tad bit of buddying from Anti to boring here with the comments relating to SS.

I'm literally at work trying to form a reads list and responded to all your call outs for early game shit. Lynch me if you want but when I flip green you'll be no closer to winning if you really are town. Which I don't think you are.

How would you feel about lynching Moz?

[havingfitz]

I was about to unvote you Hawk because of your reaction to the pressure you got yesterday but on closer look....I still find you suspect and your response to my ISO was weak. And too much "honestly" and "sorry" for my liking btw. I also still suspect Ali. And I'm growing suspect of boring lately as well. I was going to say I wasn't a big fan of Empking and Snarky either because of the lack of effort they seem to be putting into this game and then I realized the same thing applied to most of the players in the game. FP...CMM...Moz....LUV. Fcuk. Actually LUV has posted a good bit. Not sure why it feels like he hasn't.

In response to your 517...

- Being on a wagon for no good reason that get's to L-3 is right on the borderline IMO of being dangerous. The fact that you comment on there being no reason to unvote is what pinged me when clearly there was at least 1, ex. you having no reason to vote him and him being at L-3.

- So you didn't have a strong read on Emp...yet you were ok following Ali and boring onto his wagon bringing yet again...a player to L-3 for reasons unknown to me.

- I'm still having issues with your Ali defense based on meta and the fact you say meta is NAI. How can you defend Ali based on his meta (very limited meta at that) when you do not think meta is NAI? You can't.

- I'm "drawing a lot of conclusions from theory posts?" A lot? One isn't a lot...so show me two conclusions I've made from theory posts. And if one of them is you and Grey being friends...scratch that becuase that wasn't a conclusion. A conclusion would be me saying...Oh look...Grey and Hawk are friends now. I don't say that. I ask if you were to which you were perfectly capable of, and did, reply no. So show me a lot (2) conlusions please.

- "This is probably an error on my part" How can you say you weren't treating the game as a mason game when you had discussed theory about masons potentially facillitating mislynches if they all agree (with mafia) on a mislynch wagon? "probably wasn't unaware of the idea" doesn't fly when you talk about it, more than once, a few ISO posts earlier.

So my vote stays.


So Hawk...why are you still voting Empking? Do you suspect him?

Can you name 2 or 3 players you actually suspect?

Can you name 2 or 3 players you actually think are town?


Here's where I stand at the moment.

Suspects: Hawk, Ali, boring
Suspect a little less: Snarky, Emp, FP, Moz, CMM, LUV & Anti
Suspect least atm: Grey, BBT

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like Fitz and AH's words.

What do you like about Anti's posting?

What about their tone tells you they're town? Can you give specific examples of 'how they've been playing' that makes you think they're town as well please?

Gut and currently I can't.

Why not?

I'm convinced BBT v Hawk is TvS. Can't figure out who the scum is in this situation.
So I'ma just sheep this
VOTE: Hawk

How did you rule out TvT or SvS in this situation? What specifically tells out it is TvS?

Just for you Hawk

The first one is an opinion. He doesn't say awfully coincidental is Alignment Indicative you just infer it as a scumlean? Which it probably is but does it matter? What do you want him to say?

Well, you must not be reading very clearly. I explained my questions to Fitz and why it was important to me. You also made the same 'bad assumption' that I made because Fitz did not scumlean on LUV so my push on fitz comments about Uzi needing clarifying are evident from this post alone.

The last question is a little better but still kinda similar to the previous other people explaining their own reasoning. Also why would you call towards EMP explaining his own behavior as scum hunting or not?

Did you agree with FPs assessment that Emp was scum hunting? I didn't and I wanted FP to convince me his read was based on decent reasoning. I would call on EMP to explain his own behaviour because if EMP has come out and said that he didn't feel like he had started scum hunting at that point then it would have been extra difficult for FP to defend his position if the read was false.

Now lets look at bad votes and bad logic.

Vote for Grey in 190
This isn't following your line of thought at all. Shouldn't you be voting Fancy here? Why Grey? Why is this a serious wagon?

I'm pretty sure you're just parroting here and I'm pretty sure I already repsonded to LUV when he asked these exact same questions. Are you really reading or do you just think you have found a potential target to get your teeth in to and appear active? (<<< Is a rhetorical question before you accuse me of looking busy with questions).

Vote for Alisae in 209
No reasoning, just a naked vote. Some things could be inferred from context of posts surrounding the vote but it doesn't really give us any real motivations or logic behind the vote.

You're answering your own questions/queries in the very same post - it can easily be inferred from context as to why I voted Alisae.

Vote for Fitz in 216
Uhhh its been less than 7 posts why are you flipping so much with no reasoning or even backup logic. Like we weren't even talking about Fitz here. In fact Grey was on an Alisae lynch just a minute before which you had been sheeping! WTF?

I mean, once again, I feel like I was very clear with why I switched my vote onto Fitz. These questions have all been answered within the thread.

WHAT? This is him literally sheeping your vote on Grey less than 15 posts prior. Why is this vote awful? Why wouldn't your vote be considered awful then? Cause this might be considered opportunistic?

It's all about context and clearly you're missing it. Alisae went to reread thread or supposedly reevaluate the game. Instead of bringing any insightful analysis, he just goes back to jumping onto Grey when he thinks there is traction on that wagon.

I'd rather Lynch mozamis, though. He's done nothing to change my read since I voted him.

[/quote]
I'll lynch Moz if Hawk will.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm finally caught up.

I'm only willing to lynch Hawk or Moz today. Maybe Anti.

Nobody else.

[havingfitz]

BBT....what is your read on Ali and do you suspect moz more than him?

[havingfitz]

You obviously do.....why?

[boring]

I detect a tad bit of buddying from Anti to boring here with the comments relating to SS.

it's an interesting thought. However, I think if Anti were trying to buddy me, he wouldn't borderline misrep me at every interaction (I say borderline because I'm leaning toward it being genuine miscommunication, as in, we just function on different wavelengths).


P-edit: Fitz, Can you explain why I'm in your highest suspect list? This is the first I've heard from you having anything at all to do with me, iirc. If you can't get Hawk or Alisae today, would you vote for me?

Pp-edit: BBT, I might be able to do Moz. The look of the game would have to change for me to vote Anti now. Why not Empking?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You obviously do.....why?

Ah fuck, forgot about Alisae.

I wanted to try and create a small lynch pool but for some reason I'm struggling to do it. I would also lynch Alisae so I'll put Anti on the backburner for now.