Micro 674 9:12 Dream Mafia. Game over

[JaeReed]

But I don't have a PT with you so I can't be

[JaeReed]

For some reason Maria thinks I'm town.

Which sucks because scumming with you might have been fun.

[JaeReed]

I'm up to page 11 so far.

You're not gonna like my reads.

[JaeReed]

At start of p12 I stand as follows:

penguin is town
btd might be town
tpa could go either way
grey is probably town, I liked his reaction to the penguin vote on him
firebringer looks like scum
leaning on gerry scum for actually doing shit this game and the vote on tepes following fire getting run up
flubber I'm unsure on overall.
I'll need a 2nd look at gamma's like one or two posts once I finish reading up to figure anything there.

{penguin}
{btd, grey}
{tpa, flubber, gamma}
{gerry}
{firebringer}

pedit oh I know I'm town. I thought tepes was town even before I was told who I replaced, and you would have had tepes as town if you were town too, though I'd wager you'd still have pushed for a lynch on him.

[JaeReed]

Lol so confirmed scum.
Zero explanation on why I am scum besides I should obviously townread your slot? Lol

Immediate panicked attempt at discrediting before I've finished reading up and made a case.

So I'm edging more towards Firebringer/gerryoat team, though gerry scumread is partially based on him doing what I perceive as more than he tends to do as town, so it's highly subjective along with possibly using meta in completely the wrong way, and strong association with Firebringer, so there's a decent chance I'm wrong and it's Flubber.

pedit - yeah my scumread on you is less confident overall and has more to do with associates. Obviously if I'm wrong on fb then it doesn't matter, but I am really certain that fb is scum.

[JaeReed]

Please tell me what Tepes did that says town

Read in context, not ISO, and think about how Tepes plays in general.

He was clearly trying to solve the game. Firebringer would have noticed this if he was town, because he reads emotional cues much like I do, so when we're of the same alignment I can at least somewhat understand where he's coming from. He still would have pushed for a policy lynch on KT slot but he definitely wouldn't fake a scumread there.

[JaeReed]

I've been asking people for their reads, are you just not reading? I'm one of the few actually trying, and you have the nerve to try and say that I'm just pushing one agenda? I've asked Maker what he thinks of the BW on him. I've asked penguin what lynch he thinks impoves the game state, i've asked Flubber why he townreads fire (when he's shitposting as much as anyone) and says he's upset with the shitposting in this game. This is why I said originally that you had the worst posts so far, TPA, cause that analysis makes no sense. If I was just pushing Tepes, why would i say that orginally I thought your posts were the worst

This is actually all true. I was hoping other people would comment on it, but I looked through your ISO and started to get some real Town vibes from you. Basically I did a reaction test. I think this is a Townie reaction.

Yeah this is a pretty town emotional reaction from gerry. Both get points.

[JaeReed]

My guess is that JeaReed either is still trying to figure out how to play exactly and are Town, or They have come a long way and they are Scum.

I had made 5 posts in this game by then. This pings me.

[JaeReed]

Requesting replace out

This is immature?

Either you think I'm town pushing you and you wait for me to finish my read up and present my case so you can tell me I'm wrong, or you think I'm scum pushing you in which case there's no need to replace out? What's with this response?

[JaeReed]

@gerry these were all before you said you'd try. I kinda feel like you stopped trying til I replaced in when you said you were gonna start trying lol.

You seem to be trying to gamesolve in iso though so I guess I had you too low. I'm just really used to you not doing so much as town when I read games on MS.

Spoiler: gerry playing the game

I know Maria best. I've moded with her on another side and had to do 90% of the vote logs

anyway, firebringer is town cause he has a pokemon avi

okay lets get this game going. anyone have any reads that arent jokes

TPA and Grey wtf are you guys even arguing about.

Also Maria as mod means we will get a vote count every 30 pages or so, so try and keep the votes to a minimum or keep track of them cause it will get confusing

That's like dissing the judge when you're on trial, lmao.

at long as you don't insult the jury, ur good. judge aint in charge of verdict.

No but they do still hold power over how the trial flows.

Just because they don't have down the verdict doesn't mean they can't convict your ass.

What is the point of this post???

i think you're stretching, why dont you ask fire the reason for his vote?

I think you both are arguing over something arbitrary and it could be used as something to distance but not sure yet.

i want to hear why flubber townreads firebringer

TPA has had the worst posts so far this game

why are you fine with this

I think i'd like this lynched currently. After rereading, I think this slot has had the worst posts.

VOTE: Think Tepes

Flubber please iso tepes

i think we should all come together and do 2 things.

1.) iso tepes

2.) vote tepes

I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: GAMME EMEROLD

kain tepes forgot how to log out............................!!! aggressivee player,,

Or you could like, iso and see for yourself. and tell me what you think

maker what do you make of the bw on you currently?

can you guys stop acting like babies and talk and work things out. Grey what are your reads besides your vote

@penguin what lynch do you think improves the game state?

Gerry, how is your "look at this obvscum" tactic really going to progress the game considering how close we still are to rvs?

um. what do you mean? I'm just telling people to iso tepes and tell me what they think about it. My read is scum.

Fire is a tentative Town read for Town reading me.

lmao what????

[JaeReed]

Lol so confirmed scum.
Zero explanation on why I am scum besides I should obviously townread your slot? Lol

Immediate panicked attempt at discrediting before I've finished reading up and made a case.

So I'm edging more towards Firebringer/gerryoat team, though gerry scumread is partially based on him doing what I perceive as more than he tends to do as town, so it's highly subjective along with possibly using meta in completely the wrong way, and strong association with Firebringer, so there's a decent chance I'm wrong and it's Flubber.

pedit - yeah my scumread on you is less confident overall and has more to do with associates. Obviously if I'm wrong on fb then it doesn't matter, but I am really certain that fb is scum.

Why are you talking about teams at this point in the game?

This is a scum team of 2. In case you haven't noticed, mafia is a team game. In a game this small it's fine to look for associates with your top scumreads to see if they fit. If you can't find who the person is scum with, chances are you're wrong on your scumread.

I still say Flubber is scum.

Where is the town motivation in ignoring a post that is restated over and over, and has zero legitimate grounds for objection?

Sometimes you feel like ignoring people is better for town than getting into a shitfight with them that's just going to clog up the thread. I don't understand why you don't just replace out if you can't stand the playerlist, though.

[JaeReed]

Who is that in response to?

[JaeReed]

Requesting replace out

This is immature?

Either you think I'm town pushing you and you wait for me to finish my read up and present my case so you can tell me I'm wrong, or you think I'm scum pushing you in which case there's no need to replace out? What's with this response?

This game is boring.
I am bored of it.

Your probably scum but I don't feel like fighting you for pages on pages.

Except I'm not scum, so...

I'd prefer if you stayed in but if you find the game that boring then I guess... It just seemed like you replaced because I pushed you.

Can you answer why you find aggressiveness in Kain Tepes scummy? That seems to be his playstyle from what I've seen of him.

[JaeReed]

Who is that in response to?

I never got a preview that said you had made posts past your critique of firebringer's replace out. The push was in reference to that

Why do you believe my scumread on fb was shit, then?

[JaeReed]

Who is that in response to?

I never got a preview that said you had made posts past your critique of firebringer's replace out. The push was in reference to that

Why do you believe my scumread on fb was shit, then?

Well it's based on him disagreeing on a single read with you and a contrived framing of why he replaced out so we can start there

That is absolutely not what it's based on. It's based on tone, the shit scumread on Kain when he really just looked like he was trying to push a policy lynch, and the lack of the strong obvtown feels I usually get from Firebringer.

THIS from you is contrived framing, because his replace out happened after my stated scumread and my issue with that clearly had nothing to do with reading his alignment.

[JaeReed]

Actually we can lynch me.
Save Maria m trouble of replacing me.

ftr I find it unlikely you do this as scum since it'd affect a scum team way more than it would affect town so I don't really want your lynch anymore.

[JaeReed]

That's not the way I Scum hunt almost ever. That's called pre-flip associations and I'm not a fan.

I am perfectly aware of what it's called, and I don't care whether you like it or not.

[JaeReed]

hapahauli replaces Gamma Emerald

welcome them

!

AHEM O_e

Welcome hapawhatever that name is hard I'll call you hap.

HAPpy, Maria?

Yes :3

[JaeReed]

@Maria what's the vote count? Did my vote get reset when I replaced in or still where it was from Kain?

[JaeReed]

Reasons?

[JaeReed]

Fire wasn't scummy the moment he decided to stick around and advocate his lynch. I should have just unvoted but I didn't expect anyone to be stupid enough to actually push his lynch through given I just fucking stated he was more likely to be town. Especially considering there was still like a week left and I was in the middle of talking to someone.

[JaeReed]

It's a 9 person game. He was definitely worth keeping around considering as scum that move is actually gamethrowing so he had a high chance to be town.

In any case, I don't want a shit fight. I should have unvoted. Whatever. I want TPA to explain his 180.

[JaeReed]

I mean that's kind of why I asked for reasons and mentioned the 180. Which he then ignored.

I don't know if being inconsistent coming in after a night phase is necessarily scummy though beyond surface level. Like you'd have to believe he'd be that sloppy as scum so as to both forget his townread on me prior to the lynch, and not have a case ready to push when asked about the read flip.

[JaeReed]

I don't think grey is scum.

@gerry I need time to reread basically. The flips so far means my reads were absolute shit, especially given Flubber nightkill over someone like penguin who was pretty unanimously agreed on as town.

@hap Flubber was also investigating both myself and gerry. Why do you believe he was killed for investigating btd rather than gerry or myself?

[JaeReed]

I've played with Grey as scum when we were both scums. He was super obvious day 1 and wasn't as angry as he is right now. So I don't really sr him right now.

A meta read based on one fucking game? NOT RELIABLE!!!

Plus, i think grey has been pretty damn obvious.

Like I don't think people are Town reading him and they just chalk it up to "too scummy to be scum"

I am explicitly townreading Grey and I believe hap is too, so that's wrong.

[JaeReed]

VC, maria?

[JaeReed]

Reasons?

[JaeReed]

I'll repeat my last question.

Reasons?

[JaeReed]

So macro level, and an extremely lazy level of it at that.

[JaeReed]

Yeah Alisae hasn't tried to read me at all. Their reasoning as town is shit but never this lazy.

I don't have a read on maker. He has an anti-town playstyle at best and is lynchbait regardless of alignment. I can't work out if hap's push on him is town or scum motivated though. I get bad gut vibes from the whole thing but that could be inherently disliking pushes on BTD for his playstyle.

VOTE: Alisae

This is probscum.

[JaeReed]

Lol that's funny cuz I looked in your ISO and I'm not liking what I'm seeing.
Hint: It's not the JaeReed Senpai's towngame I know and love.

Not to mention last time you gave reads you had my predecessor as your highest townread.
Sure, that was 200 posts ago. But you're blatantly OMGUSing a slot you townread before.
Also instead of asking for anything else, you jump on me.

AWW MAN JAEREED, SCUM LOVE HAVING A JUSTIFIED VOTE
WINK WINK, NUDGE NUDGE

This is an aggressive discrediting reaction btw.

1) I'm allowed to change my mind. Especially considering two of my scumreads flipped town, a re-evaluation of the gamestate was always going to happen.
2) I see a scum push on me, I vote the scum pushing on me. Call it whatever you want but until I see something townie from you I'm not unvoting.
3) I asked for your reasons, I prodded you on the reasoning being lazy, and instead of going more in depth or double checking on your vca you ignored me because you knew you had no argument. It's the same thing I did as scum in Trials where I ignored Gamma trying to engage with me and pushed for his lynch instead, because I knew he'd town it up if I responded directly to what he asked me.

Yep, sometimes they do. Which is why I believe you went for the "wagon disappeared" approach. Without analyzing anything surrounding it, or even the number of scum in the game.

[JaeReed]

Hey JaeReed.
How come you didn't push hapahuali yet for things like, say, idunno, 470?

I'll let you in on a secret that I'm fairly sure you would have figured out by now, and I'm pretty sure I've also told you when we were discussing tells.

No tell is perfect. Town will also jump on a nightkill. That's why you have to analyze the way one goes about it.

I could ask you the same thing, though. Why vote Grey first and then me instead of hap if you feel like that's something I should have pushed on? Shouldn't you then be voting hap?

I'll also share something else with you: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8332123
I'm pretty sure I've already shown you that but take a look and memorize it for when you're town. You're making the same mistake scum!GL made here in assuming I'll listen to a scumread trying to tempt me with one of my tells. If I thought enough of it either way I'd be pushing it.

[JaeReed]

2. So instead of trying to ask more questions to see if I am going to continue being lazy or if I'm not you jump on me? Ok.
3. Senpai is expecting depth from me...I'm already seeing problems with this.
If why would scum A. Replace in followed by B. Attempt to push something without an arguement. Plus you just said my push was lazy and not really asking me to go indepth about it so I didn't see it that way.
You want depth, here you go:

Think Tepes was an earlygame wagon for a long time.
And then suddenly it dissapears. Vanishes. Gone. Poof.
Instead Fire is the counter wagon.
Why do you think your wagon suddenly dissapeared?
Because scum derailed it.

2. There were no more questions to be asked. You shut down the attempt at engagement by ignoring my response.
3. Ok, what was Tepes an earlygame wagon for? How do you believe scum gained enough sway in the game to swing the wagon? Do you believe the Firebringer lynch was a policy lynch or something more? And yes, I expect something more when you start with a stance and try to work backwards than two VC quotes with no micro level analysis of the votes, because I taught you better than that.

[JaeReed]

Why vote Grey first and then me instead of hap if you feel like that's something I should have pushed on? Shouldn't you then be voting hap?

Cause I'm a replacement who replaced in attempting to reaction test. I liked the response I got.

Okay I'll vote hap now cuz I like you now cuz you has gud reasons for scumreading me not to mention your interactions with me seem to be coming from town.
VOTE: Hap

You're claiming Slayer's gambit here and I don't buy it.

What's your reason for suspecting Hap? Why did you feel you needed a reaction test to get reads rather than reading the thread and coming to conclusions on what you wanted to push based off that?

Why do you feel my reaction was town over scum? Was there anything in particular you thought I'd not do as scum there?

[JaeReed]

One thing I did like about hap was he took hard stances on I think every major issue in the thread. The read on Grey, Tepes, TPA.
What I don't like is that along with his style this game he has only pushed lynchbait low content posters, which makes it incredibly hard to read him.

It's something that can come from town just as easily as from scum. It's plausible he believes he has PoE'd the game down to that. It's just not how it has been framed so far in that it all seems like actual scumreads from him.

[JaeReed]

He's not striking me as someone particularly low effort considering the effort he's putting into making his posts rhyme.

[JaeReed]

TPA or Maker. Lets quick lynch one. IDC which. They are both scums

Why are you so confident in BTD?

[JaeReed]

@Ali Except he's making cases on them too? So he's making an effort at playing.

There's also the fact that I have actually seen an all lurker scum team before and wasted my time scumhunting in the more actives and people who were pushing them because I thought it couldn't be that easy and lurker lynching was opportunistic. So there's a non zero possibility that he's town pushing on lurker maf as well.

[JaeReed]

Okay just read the Firebringer PL.
And what the fuck did I just read?
That makes me not like TPA even more.
Sure it was a PL, but surely there musta been scum somewhere on that wagon, don't cha think?

Not sure. I couldn't pinpoint any particular vote that stood out as obvtown to me. Grey's unapologetic stance for it after the fact strikes me as town, but he was honestly pretty town for his reaction to P_A's push on him anyway at the point in the game it was at, so that doesn't actually tell me much. I know my vote was just me not unvoting when I replaced in. gerry seemed to scumread Fire rather than want to policy him for his shit, and I'm not sure whether that was scum justifying the vote or merely that he ended up TRing me which put Fire's push on me in a bad light after that.

[JaeReed]

Lol I didn't even post. Not opposed to this outcome. Agree with gerry

[JaeReed]

Meh. I wasn't ever going to lynch Grey so I think he did a good job then.

[JaeReed]

Kinda selfish point: I'm glad I didn't get mislynched again. I already hate that I've been mislynched twice since I started playing. I would have been royally pissed to have that go up to 3.

[JaeReed]

I'm actually ok with this loss. GJ maf.

[JaeReed]

Jae why ;~;

I didn't vote you, bud. I was actually going to put in the appropriate amount of lylo effort, but LQ saved me the trouble of hard efforting probably to only vote him in the end tbh.

[JaeReed]

I'm actually ok with this loss. GJ maf.

Aw, thank you. GG!

You earned it

Thanks for letting me sit in your pocket lmao. Nice and snug place to be.

[JaeReed]

Sorry Alibae <3

[JaeReed]

I'm actually ok with this loss. GJ maf.

How are you OK with this loss? grey was the most obvious Scum I have ever seen.

I'm never sheeping the dead again.

Because town's play this game was incredibly shit. You already said that. I'm ok with the better team winning.

Grey did what he had to do in order to win. Stop being salty and trying to put others down on their win. Look at what you could have done better, and move on.

[JaeReed]

Jaereed you saying I should have had a townread on your slot because of kain was the oddest thing in this game and I'd love to hear how you came to that reasoning

Because Kain was my strongest townread when I thought I was replacing Gamma. Maria didn't actually tell me who I was replacing, just gave me my role PM, so when I was waiting for her to announce me I was also waiting to see who I replaced. As I read up during that time Kain struck me as actually trying to solve the game. I really don't know why you decided you were going to tunnel him.

You just usually read the game better than that. You're one of the few people I actually have a decent respect for as far as the ability to read lynchbait. Like, in general I'd say your reads are actually really good, way better than mine, and yet you misread KT when I thought he was obvtown. It was weird for us to be at such different reads on the slot.