Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Prism]

Am I eager to do this considering the low chance of it flipping scum?

No.

Am I willing to?

Unfortunately.

VOTE: BTD6

[Prism]

BTD6 I respect your playing style but if your regular amount of posting is 0.75% of the game's posts, and only 6-7 of those really say much, and you've got to post even less than that from here on out, it's probably time to replace out. I hope your real life calms down soon.

[Prism]

Why on earth am I voting with mastina on someone who Pine isn't even going to pick?

[Prism]

BTD6 is a huge coin flip (although good PL) but I'd like to hit someone I'm actually sure is scum.

I'm voting with my biggest scumread if that tells you anything.

[Prism]

We need to figure out who gets the watch from Monokuma before this is hammered by the way.

[Prism]

Nacho you motherfucker this was WHAT YOU WANTED don't give me some of my own medicine holy

[Prism]

I still think it's better, but sure.

Monokuma if you give it to me I'll buy you something for your Neopets.

[Prism]

You two-timing bastard you cry out for me to lynch the town with you, I agree because he's basically doing nothing, and then you go back and still vote the inventor.

[Prism]

Nacho, Fate, it's not too late. We can reverse the tides of time, wind back the clock before you townread them for basically nothing, and lynch mastina. You can do it. It's not too late.

[Prism]

I'm slipping back into halfway trolling but it would be kind of nice.

[Prism]

MAYBE

IT'S NOT TOO LATE

TO LEARN HOW TO LOVE

AND FORGET HOW TO HATE

MENTAL WOUNDS NOT HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

LIFE'S A BITTER SHAAAAAAAAAAAAME

VOTE: MASTINA

[Prism]

Drealm, I think you're wrong. So, so wrong.

But something...something deep down inside you...something just feels

oh so right

[Prism]

Oh he was already voting BTD6

Whoops

TOO LATE I'M KEEPING COURSE

NO BRAKES ON THIS CRAZY TRAIN

[Prism]

I MADE A MISTAKE AND I TAKE BACK ALL OF THOSE MEAN WORDS I JUST WROTE ABOUT YOU NACHO. MY APOLOGIES.

BUT I'M ALL IN

I'M GOING OFF THE RAILS

[Prism]

Beloved bear Monokuma I'm selling tickets for this mastina train and let me tell you, we're ready to upgrade you to first class for no extra charge.

There's extra honey in first class. Comes free. Train goes straight through premier hellscape territory, great views of punishments and ultimate despair. Free showing of every 0% movie from Rotten Tomatoes. Everything a sorrowful bear could ever want.

[Prism]

The claim is all anyone should need, though. She's not going to claim something that confirmable as scum, and if she did, we can very easily find out if she was lying.

The chance of it being confirmed, even as town, is low. There is very little downside to claiming the variant she claimed as scum.

Redirections, roleblocks, or simply targeting scum all make the action fail, with us having no clue why it did. This makes it suboptimal to use N1 (See BTD6's policeman quote). Depending on how well partners fare later in the game, it may turn out to be advantageous to claim masons with one.

[Prism]

Staring at the list and having skimmed Aero/Cakez some more my lynch preferences are now as follows:

1. Mastina
2. Ari
3. Cakez
4. BTD6
5. Fate
6. Katsuki
7. Vax
8. Monokuma
9. Drealm
10. Aeronaut
11. Gin
12. Nacho

[Prism]

Why is it an awful option?

Why should I think it is a particularly useful role to leave alive? I don't think Mastina is town to begin with. I don't think we'll get a successful mason if she's town. We definitely won't get a successful mason if she's scum.

[Prism]

You're acting like there's a large chance of getting something out of Mastina's power here. I think the chance of getting

anything

out of it past what we've already gotten is close to 0.

[Prism]

(Nacho's plan is the one thing that makes it potentially worthwhile, but RB or redirect also prevent it from coming to fruition to begin with)

[Prism]

On the flip side you're talking to someone who thinks it's a good idea to pretend to be scum as town, and has voted their innocent reports numerous times if they scumread them anyway.

When it comes to playing mafia, I gave up my sanity years ago.

[Prism]

You could say that about any role; you could say "we could lynch ____ bc it's likely this role won't ever get used bc it will be roleblocked" about literally anything.

You can, and I would have made that argument towards lynching Monokuma, but I don't scumread Monokuma. Hence why I used the reverse talking to Nacho. (Note: Still some validity in this-Mastina's power requires no scum intervention to fail)

[Prism]

The fact is that you're not going to get a lynch off on mastina today, especially if you're not going to give any sort of case with it.

so I don't understand the point of any of your posting in the last few pages

I don't have to make a case. I

might

, because it's helpful, but just getting people to reconsider the diehard townread is worthwhile in itself.

[Prism]

Mono do you seriously have no other real content to contribute right now other than tsk tsk vote the nulls

[Prism]

I take it back, Aeronaut, Nacho, want to flip back on the bear?

[Prism]

You're headed for a beary sad fate Monokuma.

[Prism]

I mean, being bad at mafia is pretty alignment independent if you ask me.

P-Edit: Absolutely nothing, which will serve as no deterrent to me rest assured!

[Prism]

Are you deliberately missing the point or are you just tired or something?

Just being cheeky.

[Prism]

Pine do you have any Xanax? It's clear that I need a chill pill.

[Prism]

I mean to be honest my chronic inability to maintain anything resembling a stable mood, or to take myself seriously, is clearly hurting me/us here. I've got the impulsiveness and mental maturity of a 12 year old.

[Prism]

Alright it's really clear to me that I should have taken a step back a long time ago, as I started out from pretty serious and slowly slipped into the manic abyss. I've got a ton of time today (obviously) but it does me no good if I can't stay focused during it, so I'll try and come back later with a clearer head. If that's not today then my apologies. I'll be extremely busy for the next week and a half but I'll check in via phone to make sure we get in a lynch in, regardless of whether or not I really want it.

[Prism]

Sorry to steal your thunder Cakez but I'm tired of this day. I think BTD6's "Can"t target Pine" makes him more likely to be scum but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a wrong assumption.

VOTE: BTD6

I really just need the time to reevaluate and want the game to calm down in the meantime.

[Prism]

Blood for the blood gods, camn. Hand us the head of BTD6.

[Prism]

Between Fate, Kat, and Vax's intent we're now 3 past the threshold, great job everyone.

Cakez doesn't count since his intent was actually before the hammer.

[Prism]

Consider yourself SUPER lynched BTD.

[Prism]

@BTD6:

I voted you basically for saying you couldn't target Pine, so...

[Prism]

I'm probably not doing that, no.

P-Edit: Yes.

[Prism]

Pine is treated as a player, not a mod. It was a lie or false assumption on BTD6's part, 100%. Time has shown in the former. Nothing strange about it.

Two one-shot eavesdroppers would be unusual but not bastard.

[Prism]

Witness for yourself what happens when town assumes only one of a role exists: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68600

[Prism]

No, they don't.

BTD6 lied about his role. It functions exactly as Gin described it.

[Prism]

In actual fact, my role was exactly as Gin described. I can use it any day.
...
Gin knows the specifics of my role

Spoiler: BTD6 is probably town, as is Gin.

[Prism]

Fate's started playing orders of magnitude better, fortunately, even though I suspect it's well within the ability range of Fatescum.

[Prism]

Again, he lied, he claims to have exactly the same role as you.

[Prism]

Fate, Nacho, whoever's town here, the problem here is I have way too many townreads, and I'm pretty sure everyone else does too.

Sometimes, you're on the wrong track and you want to get on the right one.

So what do you do?

You go right off the motherfucking rails

and make your way on over.

Spoiler: It's time

[Prism]

I haven't reread Vax but I'm betting they're scum with mastina.

[Prism]

All or most of his reads are wrong so

I mean, my only really strong reads are Nacho/Gin town which we both agree with.

Mastina is basically by PoE and skimming their ISO and throwing the ol' gut dart.

[Prism]

I haven't reread Vax but I'm betting they're scum with mastina.

Why do you think that?

Basically the only person together with Mastina that I haven't townread at all, minus one post early on.

[Prism]

Oh and Drealm is the next strongest but that's still in "possibly wrong" tier

[Prism]

Pine got a request about the town roles, he doesn't know the roles. The only way he'd know about eavesdropper is if he asked for a town eavesdropper.

Guess what he definitely didn't ask for?

[Prism]

I've been busy for several days now and will be until Saturday but I concur that Katsuki is almost certainly scum and if they're not I'm blaming Nacho.

Someone mentioned not ending the day yet so I won't vote yet.

[Prism]

@Aeronaut:

Nacho kill over Mastina was stupid if scum weren't planning RBing her. Nacho was always town, not RBing Mastina is two town waiting to happen. 0 chance I make that.

[Prism]

Sure.

VOTE: Katsuki

Seriously, whoever decided not to shoot/RB mastina and give two towns for free did something incredibly stupid.

[Prism]

I would just like to comment that town lying has resulted in me voting town twice now.

Cut it out, people, jesus.

[Prism]

Granted that's still my fault for not being able to read worth shit but come on now.

[Prism]

Whatever I'm salty over the town gambits that I've only see halfway through (the bullshit part, not the town part) but I'll take them because I'm getting carried hardcore anyway.

[Prism]

It was an OK move that led to Mastina getting nightkilled, which is probably optimal.

I think Aeronaut not keeping up with the claim of the town is just Aeronaut not keeping up with the claim of the town.

I'm just salty because I was 90% sure there was no masonizer.

[Prism]

huh?

Nothing, just carry me to victory because I'm 2/2 in calling bullshit but 0/2 because both the bullshitters were town.

[Prism]

If drealm is scum I'm going to be really surprised, just in the sense that he'd be playing so horribly as to be unbelievable. It's a possible tactic, sure, but I still think it's an awful pick.

I lean town on Fate but his statement about me goes in reverse. I'm still sorting in Ari/Vax/Cakez when I read today, even though I'm starting to lean town on Ari too.

Anyone engaging a "Gin can be scum" line of thinking is on a much crazier train than even I would ever step foot on.

[Prism]

Is it modconfirmed only 3 mafia (4 with Pine)?

[Prism]

I'm not seeing it in the ruleset so I'm going to assume no but I'll give it a bit.

[Prism]

Girl, it's a mini, that means 10-3.

D1 12
N1 11
D2 10
N2 9
D3 You're in LyLo.

It never happens in that playersize.

I've assumed it but I'm currently in a Mini with an open setup that's 9-4.

Will assume three for now.

[Prism]

I'm more than willing to vote you at the moment Fate.

[Prism]

VOTE: Fate

I TRUSTED YOU

WELL, NO I DIDN'T, BUT I WANTED TO

YOU SICK FUCK

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

MAYBE

DON'T CLAIM SCUM THEN

YOU GODDAMN CLOWN

[Prism]

I HAD SUCH HIGH HOEPS FOR YOUR COMPETENCE PRISM

AND I HAD HIGH HOPES FOR YOU

SO HIGH THAT I PICKED YOU

AND HOW HAVE YOU REPAID THAT

BY SOILING IT

[Prism]

My own

[Prism]

It's okay, brother, when you want to rejoin arms and walk down that aisle with me once again, I'll be waiting.

We'll walk right off the rails again, together, just like before this whole debacle.

[Prism]

Prism why did you unvote?

I don't really think the dude's mafia.

[Prism]

Come on Fate, we can do this, get back here.

Spoiler: Together we can make this reality

[Prism]

No I haven't reread I just wanted to make the image.

[Prism]

I wanted to trust him.

He betrayed that trust.

It's that simple, my alcoholic friend.

[Prism]

Prism who is scum?

I'm at a loss for why you'd even make this post other than sheer frustration, I already have given you my answer at least 3 times today.

[Prism]

Real answer is really helpful so I'll give it to you two/three days early.

I'm the even night neighborizer who picked Fate. He trollslipped in our PT (We should distance, I'm going down soon, etc. without explicitly naming me) expecting me to get it but my IQ displayed in this game isn't even Henry Kissinger's age.

I scumread Mastina partially because I knew there was an odd night neighborizer and thought that two+a masonizer would be odd. Didn't connect the gambit despite it being obvious. Also why I immediately believed that both you and BTD6 were eavesdroppers.

Fate has hinted at having a game-ending role in our PT for awhile now.

[Prism]

Well, trollslipping isn't fair to Fate, he was joking with me counting on me knowing there would only be 3 mafia, but unfortunately for us another game we're in has a mod-confirmed 4 and I've only been in 4 games total, giving me a pretty small sample size. After he didn't take my initial concern seriously I went into full idiot Red Alert mode.

[Prism]

I also could have targeted Pine, which led to me thinking Pine was a valid target for BTD6 (Though I'm now pretty sure this is untrue), which is why I was hella salty we had two town bullshitters.

[Prism]

This game is actually the best.

[Prism]

These last few pages give me a headache and I'm not getting around to rereading tonight.

[Prism]

Fate just claimed into autoloss if he's mafia, for one.

[Prism]

Ways Fate makes that claim as mafia:

-1 shot lynch invulnerability
-1 shot double killer

I can't think of any others.

[Prism]

Fate's given interpretation of the bomb claim is that it kills anyone who votes him last.

He gets autolynched in 3 way LyLo.

[Prism]

I can reveal this now that Mono is dead anyway. I got a 1-shot watcher night 1 and saw them visit a certain someone night 2, not gonna reveal yet since I'm not sure if they used the invention or not. Will out if majority wants tho.

I'm having a really hard time believing that Monokuma gave you that willingly instead of having it redirected/stolen. You were voted by them in #2665 and still listed as a scumread in #2138.

VOTE: Cakez

[Prism]

Scum may have no roleblocker.

[Prism]

Actually, it's likely they did-I imagine Aero had an RB.

[Prism]

Oh yep you beat me to it.

[Prism]

Why would a bomb claim be autolynched in LyLo?

P-edit: they started townreading me later on day 1 iirc. Or it could have plausible been redirected yeah. I'm not seeing the relevancy in how I got it. I can confirm I got it since I know who they visited anyway.
P-p-edit: Well SOMEONE gave me a 1-shot watcher ffs.

You're throwing away a free second shot at mafia if you don't. The bomb is killing the last person to vote the bomb. In 3 way, this means 2/3 die.

As for the watch I'm just skeptical of a steal but the bigger thing here is I just want someone of you/Drealm/Vax or maybe Ari dead.

[Prism]

We've got two mislynches assuming no other kills.

[Prism]

Wait a minute, there is no possible way for Fate to be lying.

Think about it, if Fate says he is autolynched at LyLo. Then that means even if he's scum, he will lose the game regardless because he just swore to his death. That's not scum play to throw in the towel when it becomes LyLo.

Correct. Fate is confirmed town until 3 way, at which point he becomes a self-sacrificing kingmaker.

[Prism]

That's basically been my plan all day, yes.

[Prism]

Drealm I'm fine hammering you so you should probably claim.

[Prism]

Actually, you're already hammered.

[Prism]

Fate is also voting Drealm.

[Prism]

If Drealm is mafia this game would have sucked as far as the actual mafia playing went.

It's rocked for fun factor though.

[Prism]

Drealm, man, you're on the craziest of all possible trains.

[Prism]

Heavily in favor of a no lynch today to preserve 3 way mechanics.

VOTE: No Lynch

Tracker outs result or we assume it went to scum. I'm assuming Gin got the BP vest which stopped the kill.

[Prism]

We're not NLing for tomorrow, we're NLing to avoid 4 way.

[Prism]

I don't see why you wouldn't want one of me/Ari to go additionally, just as a matter of safety.

[Prism]

Fair point, I completely forgot NL was an option in 4 way. That was silly.

Sure, I'll try to get around to rereading Ari today to make sure he's town. Vax/Cakez reads were both mainly inconclusive.

[Prism]

This is just a heads up but I've been summoned to something that will likely strip me of internet access entirely from the 12th to the 26th. I don't anticipate the game going this long, but in the event it does I will likely have to be replaced. I apologize in advance if this turns out to be the case.

UNVOTE:

[Prism]

I'll do it instead.

VOTE: Vax

[Prism]

Fate, my brother...

[Prism]

I love you anyway

[Prism]

I don't really think I have too many comments on the game itself.

Ari, Gin, mastina, Nacho all played extremely well. Katsuki did the best with what they had.

Aero played really well despite me thinking they were PoE mafia most of Day 1, to the extent that I wanted to keep them around if only because of A+ content.

Cakez took the entire wrong approach to the 4 way despite it working anyway. Cakez should have been fighting like hell to get Ari to hammer instead, because why on earth would you hammer it as town? Fate is already confirmed town via claim, it's time to double check Ari. Killing me was 100% the right call as I leaned Ari town pretty heavily over him. I expected Gin to be finished off before me, which led to me playing really lazily.

All I can think to reflect on is my own play. My Day 1 was a trainwreck of waffling between pretending I was scum (???) and crazy trains fueled by knowing mastina was fakeclaiming. After that I just coasted and barely tried.

I will never regret neighborizing Fate because I got him as a hard townread so fast because of it, minus our snafu. After that we were basically masons.

I regret the Dreal lynch because I really, really knew that was town but was just like "Oh it's in these three anyway".

[Prism]

My PT with Fate and the crazy train antics Day 1 were hands down my favorite part.

I'd give the fun factor in this game an A+++, my play rating for myself is an F because in no world is pretending to be scum (Like, why?) then just trolling/coasting your way into a throw anything resembling good play.

[Prism]

Also, Monokuma needed to out who the track was going to beforehand. You force scum to either kill suboptimally or give town a guaranteed-valid track (Scum can't lie about it as target picked during the day)

[Prism]

I figured I was a better lynch than any other ML at that point because of being VT so I was hoping my flip might help sort things? buuut, mehhhh, I didn't really do anything so it wasn't really helpful

Yeah no that lynch was awful and I went with it because I was lazy and was just like "Eh just in case"

It was terrible and my play was terrible.

[Prism]

Specifically @Aero all of your interactions with me Day 1 pointed to you being mafia, in that your confusion but lack of stances/further inquiry into my strange play I thought was pretty bad. Your reads list+stance with the block read like you knew that town had a solid bloc and felt like your best chance was just rolling with it-and this turned out to be exactly the case.

[Prism]

That Day 1 is still one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life.

I reused a scum tactic that worked really well in a previous game (Granted I wound up actually frustrated in that one and actually tried to replace out) to get mastina & co. to townread me.

I then remembered Nacho had seen me do it as he spectated that game+studied my scum play and went "Oh fuck if he notices that I'm 100% getting mislynched." I'm forced to pass it off as a "Prism shows off to Nacho" and wink it to him. This was a forced "Focus on Nacho" response but he read it as purposeful. Combined with me faking Evoker meta that he wound up quoting, I just kind of rolled with it.

After that I went hardcore troll mode with the crazy train nonsense because I knew my reads were completely fucked. Ari Day 1 I gave a high chance of being town but wanted to pressure it as that jam session really was a big guidepost for him.

[Prism]

I could justify shooting Gin because he was buying into the notion that Gin outing Aero was an epic bus gambit (IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GIN I WANT YOU ON MY TEAM), but Ari was just blatantly obvTown.

Shooting Gin is autoloss as town, Gin had a bulletproof vest if he was scum.

[Prism]

Regardless of what we all think of our (or others') play, I think how much fun everyone had makes it clear: This needs to happen again.

Thanks for a fantastic game, Pine and camn.

[Prism]

PEdit: Fair point, Prism, though we'd already shot it off of him.

Right, but if Gin was scum he would have had to have lied and still had it. Gin doesn't die if he's scum, only if he's town, so it's throwing to shoot him.

[Prism]

wait he didn't shoot me?

Shooting you would have been

actually throwing the game, 100%

so we can be glad he didn't.

[Prism]

and also prism you owe me an explanation on why your play this game would have been awesome if scum

I was universally townread for doing jackshit and would have never been hammered, even in 3 way. What more could I have wanted? This is a win/lose game, I don't have to paint the Mona Lisa every time when I can just take a sledgehammer to it all.

As for why the game was funny to me, see this post.

Jokes on you guys, you correctly called me as town, but I was

pretending I was scum the entire time

! How silly do you feel? So silly right?

The response obviously being "Why on earth would you ever do that? Are you really that stupid?". The answer is

yes, I am that stupid.

The fact I got townread for my stupidity anyway was a blessing from the more intelligent town gods above, you/Gin/mastina.

[Prism]

Like as far as my actual play goes this was an actual F, I trolled and did stupid shit all of Day 1 and then just never tried another day.

If I was scum sure it'd get an A+ but I wasn't scum. Solid F.

[Prism]

nah, prism, you weren't that bad at all, not even close

though some of your trolling was over-the-top scummy and not cool

I was a FFFFail (:

Not really, I failed to pick up on mastina lying as town which cost me heavily Day 1. I let you get liability lynched even though I thought there was basically no chance you were mafia unless you were going for some next level shit. (I even remember making a post in my PT about that then going "Oh but MAYBE MAYBEEEEEE OKAY 40% CHANCE")

And then with Vax/Cakez I thought it was a done deal and that I'd face one of them in 4 way. Not the case, I died unexpectedly over Gin, and didn't get to talk with Fate over it as I intended.

I guess my point wasn't that you wouldn't be playing a bad scumgame (I guess...), just a hilariously absurd one.
Granted, you played a hilariously absurd town game, but......

After 7 years and counting of mafia I've gotten really bored of playing standard. Absurd games as both alignments happen but town ones happen a bit more often (Probably about twice as likely).

I've tried to restrain myself pretty hard on MS but my tendency to go way out of the box, and out of reason, really shined through here much to my regret.

P-Edit:

Didn't you say you townread me most of the game though?

I liked your early posts but after I got Nacho town+saw your response to the jam session I started scumreading you. I really wanted you to be town just because I liked your content in an objective sense, and when I started going off the rails from Mastina I threw you in the lean town pile out of hope.

I mean, I asked the scumteam if they wanted me to lynch you, and they were eh about it, so that's probably why I didn't really commit to it. Most of your stuff on day 1 wasn't doing a whole lot to solve much from my persepctive, and even if it was I probably could paint it that way

Misunderstanding my intent. I think I played like complete shit. I'm just saying what I scumread in case you find it helpful in the future.

[Prism]

Basically everything from Day 1, jam session on, was me just throwing up my hands and embracing the troll life. My mind was "These people are probably town but

it makes sense no other way

so it has to be them" and so I hopped on the crazy train and rode it until things started making sense with Mastina being confirmed town Day 2.

Mastina gambit was great it just fucked me because I knew she was lying but didn't make the connection that it was town.

[Prism]

I actually scumread those and didn't get you as town again until a few days later goddamnit

[Prism]

You kept asking me how I scum read or town read you and I had no clue actually. I never answered because I actually didn't have an answer.

I mean, I understood why and had you as solid town going into N1. Nacho said it pretty well-my Day 1 was just fucking absurd, even if purposely so, and I'll readily admit I do that much more frequently as town.

The second mastina claimed it went through with you I was set for the rest of the game. We were largely on the same page from there. I had Mono town, you town, drealm town, Fate town, and Ari lean town. I just 0 efforted from there which was stupid as hell and lost us the game almost singlehandedly, because I never bothered to reread Drealm and just was like "eh why do I townread this guy again idk let's liability lynch him" and failed to try and persuade Fate of anything.

[Prism]

Any post you made was basically a scumclaim, didn't matter what the contents were. If you're a neighbor you're going to get forced to out the other that day, which you couldn't have done.

That one was actually the best one possible because it could be read as implying SC was town, and Fate picked up on exactly that.

[Prism]

Staring at the list and having skimmed Aero/Cakez some more my lynch preferences are now as follows:

1. Mastina
2. Ari
3. Cakez
4. BTD6
5. Fate
6. Katsuki
7. Vax
8. Monokuma
9. Drealm
10. Aeronaut
11. Gin
12. Nacho

This is pretty hilarious in hindsight. The moment I flipped to mastina I went

way, way

overboard.

I forgot that Aero/Mastina were basically confirmed not scum together until now which explains more of why I didn't followup more on that.

[Prism]

Cakez shooting BP vest then shooting Gin is optimal. Gin was cleared by everyone except Fate.

It only stops one and town doesn't get an extra ML unless two are prevented.

[Prism]

Town also missed a huge redflag.

No one claiming the track confirmed it went to scum.

Gin claims it even if he's mafia. If it doesn't go to him, Cakez as receiver of the watch is the logical target.

[Prism]

Didn't I catch that?
I thought I said that.

If you did then I'm the one who missed it, not town, and great catch!

[Prism]

I am the main, and I'm just thinking on your question!

Reflektor is a hydra of myself and Nachos