Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[EchoVision]

pine go away

VOTE: pine

hey New Guy (idk your name yet and I don't feel like looking back oh well) how would you feel if I hammered slick since you're so against his lynch

pedit: over reacted to what??

hey New Guy (idk your name yet and I don't feel like looking back oh well) how would you feel if I hammered slick since you're so against his lynch

pedit: over reacted to what??

Excuse me!? Go ahead, scumclaim. It'll make this lynch even easier!

kinda tempting... if he were to flip scum would we get a severa wagon tomorrow?

Echo one word: Multiball

yes but if they both turned out to be scum, I doubt severa would be protecting someone on the opposite scum team. also, have to remember severa replaced pine who some people seemed to have a decent amount of suspicion on

honestly I'd prefer a slick wagon over a Wraith wagon... but obviously I'd rather lynch Dunn over anyone

Someone, one of you, should sell me Echo. Actually when something's on the menu they normally put words next to it. Here there's blank space. I didn't find his consistent cursing and xdjjdjfhjei AI, and I asked him to elaborate on the Dunn read that he didn't before and though I don't agree with his conclusion, it's something I can see him coming to based on my image of him.

Severa hasn't elaborated on a single one of their reads yet, even when asked. Just kinda seems like he's dodging it because he really has no reason for his wagons

I have no intention of answering any questions that aren't directly about how Wraith is scum and that's already in my ISO.

just read through all 70 posts of your iso and not one includes a good case on why Wraith or d7 or me or any other one of your scum reads are scum...

Hey Echo, Alisae, want to go back to the pine slot? I don't like the lack of reasoning from the others on the Wraith wagon, and they were pretty against the slick lynch. I'd still lynch slick too but it still stands that if he's scum the other team might just shoot him anyways and we can wait on lynching him until after a full team appears to be dead

VOTE: Severa

I don't really like some of the company I have on the Wraith wagon and I don't like the reasons (or lack thereof) that my company has given for being there, something is fishy about this wagon and the stench rises from Sev/AA most imo, Alisae always throws his vote around.

was thinking about it earlier. let me catch up and I'll see.

[EchoVision]

This shouldn't be half as much effort as it has been. Wraith is obvious scum and if you haven't voted him / think that he is town you are BAD. you are a SHIT PLAYER.
This is not me being a scumhunting genius catching a pro scum player this is me pointing out the single most poorly played scum game that I have seen since 2015.

maybe if you made a fucking case it would be easier

[Titus]

Echo, I know you're buddying me, but I don't care. As long as you're voting scum and aren't the major wagon, I can use you.

[EchoVision]

Really though, all alone I barely even noticed was in the game and I don't like them moving to vote wraith.

Slickdilinger reached l-1 multiple times I think and people avoid talking about him

I haven't read the majority of the past 50 or so pages because it's a chore and a few people are spamming the game and other are dumb

I like the first third of this post.

[Titus]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

As a lawyer I void this contract

Objection, don't pull this stunt with a real lawyer. You'll quickly enter policy lynch territory.

[EchoVision]

Echo that's cool.
Vote Wraith now.

make a case on him, cause I don't see what's so scummy about him. haven't really went through his iso or anything though, been focused on other people.

[Dunnstral]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

As a lawyer I void this contract

Objection, don't pull this stunt with a real lawyer. You'll quickly enter policy lynch territory.

overruled

[Titus]

We are not lynching Severa.

Blinding pride is not grounds for lynching.

[EchoVision]

Echo, I know you're buddying me, but I don't care. As long as you're voting scum and aren't the major wagon, I can use you.

how am I buddying you I think I've talked to you like twice this game lmao

[Alisae]

Echo that's cool.
Vote Wraith now.

make a case on him, cause I don't see what's so scummy about him. haven't really went through his iso or anything though, been focused on other people.

wtf.
You don't see how he's scummy?
Yet you haven't gone through his ISO?
If you haven't really sat down and evaluated Wraith, then quite frankly you shouldn't have an opinion on him.
So do me a favor, stop fencesitting
and if you don't think Wraith should be lynched then explain why he's town.

[drealmerz7]

alisae just shut the fuck up

people will do what they want to do

you don't need to try and coach/direct/command every fucking single thing from every player

IT'S FUCKING ANNOYING AS SHIT

[Alisae]

So making Echo take a stance on Wraith is bad?
Good to know.

[drealmerz7]

no

learn to read and comprehend

not just twist to suit you so you can disregard the fucking actual point

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Remember how we agreed to lynch wraith if the game was multiball

I don't like the lack of reasoning from the others on the Wraith wagon

What do you make of what I said re: Wraith?

ik I posted directly before you.

If Wraith was intentionally fencesitting between Alisae and rb wagons it means he either had a problem with both or was waiting to see which would take off faster so he could join that one. If he was willing to join an Alisae wagon at that early stage of the game I doubt Wraith+Alisae can be on the same scumteam. Tex/Grey and Wraith were the ones pushing Alisae in the later stages of D1 after his early wagon died off, and Alisae was a fairly adamant about his Tex/Grey scumread to the point that blue team was convinced enough by it to shoot Texcat. Alisae could be blue that caught opposing scum, but then Wraith would be red, if Wraith were not town. If Wraith were red, why would he 180 on the slot that got his partner shot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ignore Dunnstral quote, was rereading and added it to Q+ to ask him why he never voted Wraith today after that.

Also forgot to add this bit:

622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo

multiball though, and grey knew that. If wraith were bluescum and redscum grey thought he saw an opposing scum slip that the game was multiball I can see him making that vote.

Wraith can still be bluescum if Alisae is town actually :s
I thought there was something that pointed to him not being blue though... I forget.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also he did vote Wraith I added it to Q+ I guess because I was thinking I hadn't seen him post much in a while and wondered why he wasn't voting Wraith now or something, didn't finish reading. beh.

VOTE: SlickDilinger

Just gonna go back to this if people are fine with Severa

[Human Sequencer]

Kyouko is spectacularly scummy.

[Human Sequencer]

Wraith lynch is better tho.

[Severa]

I think SSBM might actually be scum from whichever team the other two chucklefucks aren't.

I was planning to get like a decent, compiled case together tonight but I got distracted by other games. Will get to it ASAP.

[MortFeld]

Remember how we agreed to lynch wraith if the game was multiball

I don't like the lack of reasoning from the others on the Wraith wagon

What do you make of what I said re: Wraith?

ik I posted directly before you.

If Wraith was intentionally fencesitting between Alisae and rb wagons it means he either had a problem with both or was waiting to see which would take off faster so he could join that one. If he was willing to join an Alisae wagon at that early stage of the game I doubt Wraith+Alisae can be on the same scumteam. Tex/Grey and Wraith were the ones pushing Alisae in the later stages of D1 after his early wagon died off, and Alisae was a fairly adamant about his Tex/Grey scumread to the point that blue team was convinced enough by it to shoot Texcat. Alisae could be blue that caught opposing scum, but then Wraith would be red, if Wraith were not town. If Wraith were red, why would he 180 on the slot that got his partner shot?

This is confusing. Wraith + Ali was never a scumteam I considered.

[Zachstralkita]

Anything SBM KYOK is hiding cannot hide from the light, no worries.

[MortFeld]

Spoiler: Mort Wraith notes

Wraith

30 so no RVS vote to start. I never like when people decline to RVS in their first post but it's prob NAI
119 when I read Debi it was CLEAR to me that she was newb and pulled a ratio out of nowhere. It's one of the
reasons I strongly townread the slot. Scum doesn't come up with an absurd hypothetical ratio and spend
paragraphs analyzing the math around it when scum knows how many people are on their team. Wraith
assumed two things:
1. that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge and because of this
2. that the setup was multiball
That the setup is actually multiball could be confbias but I do agree with Severa here. Why would town ever
think that Debi's ratio implied foreknowledge? 9/19 is absurd and everyone including Wraith pointed this out.
Yet Wraith, rather than doing what (?) Creature (? Don't remember who this was might have been Pine) did
and repeat "Adapt" 30 times, took Debi at face value. This belies a paranoia that I don't think is town.
Arguments against this are essentially "But Wraith has done towny things" and "This is reachy" so I'm
keeping these in mind as I read.
121 Wraith continues to maintain that Debi has foreknowledge. It is not a possibility in Wraith's mind that Debi
is newb and has no idea what she is talking about.
126 more of Wraith's not allowing that Debi is newb.
130 Wraith allows that Debi might be newb.
144 Ircher says 'yo dude you're assumin a lot and it ain't helpful' Wraith says 'nah it is helpful bro'
488 starts off towny. Alisae's vote was awful. But I can see scum!Wraith making that post assuming Alisae is
not on his scumteam. Especially without even a vote, just like 'yo look at this scummery!' He then goes on to say
he doesn't like rb's entrance but doesn't say why (for the record, I've seen town rb enter other games in a very
similar way) and he townleans Echo and Grey. Echo+Wraith is Severa's proposed scumteam and Grey is
confscum, so /shrug idk imma keep reading.
621 is grosss accusing now conftown rb of a scumslip and then spending two paragraphs speculating about
multiball. I get that multiball/no multiball is part of the basis for his rb vote, but that honestly makes it worse
for me. Maybe I am bad but as town I wasn't even thinking about multiball before it was confirmed.
622 does Grey make this vote if he and Wraith are a scumteam? Probably not, imo
676 Wraith has already said he thinks Alisae is lynchbait (621) and that he shouldn't lynch lynchbait that day,
but now he's 180ing and focusing on Ali's Pine townread - which is a bad townread yes but stuff like that is exactly
why Ali is considered lynchbait. He also recalls her Wraith vote which I get, it's a bad vote. But it feels like he
tosses it in with other pieces of 'evidence' as part of an Ali case, given that nobody latched onto it originally. He's
also explicitly fence sitting between rb and Ali wagons.
681 apologizes for Debi vote… NAI. I've seen both town and scum do this. Reading the rest of 681 it honestly looks
really town. I agree with a lot of what he says and it's really measured, objective, and gamesolvy. His reads are
confusing though for their lack of Dunn and LUV who had both been fairly active.
777 so this is a D7 flashwagon? Hm. Sitting out is NAI I think but I don't like using unmentionable player trends as
justification for a read. Not sure if it's actually anti-town.
1092 ugghhhh these walls I hate walls (knowing full well I am creating some - I would never ever do this
if I didn't replace in after 150 pages). Don't like some of his reads. HS' 1007 is not that bad. Townreads Grey
(though I do highly doubt they're on a scumteam). Don't get the Alisae read, gotta actually read 1097. In general
the reads are based on how much sense players make - not sure if that shows scum/town intent.
1097 ok I guess this could be town. I don't think it's too arguable than an Alisae lynch would be pro-town in
some respects.
Dude I can't deal with Wraith's playstyle. He doesn't even link posts.
2314 why is he scumreading Gin now? 1758 (ok, I can see this) and the vig claim. Given that Gin was actually
fakeclaiming I guess I can see this. But you've been saying Gin is the voice of reason all game and now a post from
AA and Gin's claim that you don't believe transform him from TOP TOWNREAD to SCUMREAD… a little fishy
Hmm. Wraith insists on a Gin lynch a lot. Could be that he believes the claim and wants to push the Vig lynch
through.
Disclaimer, I am skimming. Eyes are getting tired.
Census. What was the percentage of people who believed Gin vs people who didn't? Clearly he was lynched so.
Dunnstral's 2753 is pinging me.
2980 grossssssss why is Alisae town now?? This renews the idea of Wraith+Greyslot scumteam. 2980 honestly
looks like the reads you'd get if you knew it wasn't multiball.
Taking a break bc sleep.

TL;DR Wraith might be town. But I don't like 119 at all and there are enough weird poorly justified switches in opinion to give me pause. Could be explained by Wraith's constant missing a lot and catching up, or that could be a built-in excuse for having reads on the periphery.

SEVERA TAKE FUCKING NOTES THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE A CASE

I don't like this at all. As annoying as Ali's tone is, she's right. Echo has been taking a stance on Wraith: Wraith is not scummy and nobody has made a case (until Mort). But Severa has made a case; in fact, a large portion of my case comes from Severa. So Echo either
1. doesn't understand the case
2. doesn't think it legitimately shows scum intent or
3. understands it but doesn't think it overrides whatever towny things Wraith has done.

In each case there's a burden on Echo that he hasn't fulfilled. In 1. he should work to understand Severa's case instead of yelling over and over that there is no case. In 2. he should explain why, but since 2. implies ~1. I don't think 2. is the case. In 3. he should explain why Wraith is town (what Ali said).

I don't agree with telling players how they should play but completely disregarding the reasons a wagon has formed is not pro-town.

[MortFeld]

If you lynch me today you are consenting to spend your next 2 lynches powerlynching Wraith and EchoVision.

As a lawyer I void this contract

Objection, don't pull this stunt with a real lawyer. You'll quickly enter policy lynch territory.

You caught me

[Wraith]

Checking in. I'm going to have to catch up later.

[Zachstralkita]

You need to start putting effort in dude, start defending yourself