Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #10825 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:02 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 10820, BigYoshiFan wrote:PV is the only viable lynch today IMO.
He started the day tunneling Gio, which was meh.
Attacked him for not crumbing as a weak role, which is undeniably incriminating, but also attacks him as a watcher, and I think that is where is argument becomes invalid.
Gio targeted Maxous N2, which (probably) forced Maxous to claim ascetic. He targeted Narna N4 and confirmed their investigation. He targeted MathBlade N6 and confirmed their investigation. I can see the town motivation in doing these. If you don't, tell me where his watch would have been better used.
His unvote is extremely suspicious. I don't see a town-motivation in simply giving up your scumread.
Also, can someone explain how it could be LYLO? 5v1 is not LYLO. 4v2 is MYLO. 3v2v1 is MYLO (assuming 3p is jester, right?). Even if the one considering the jester is wrong, is that even a possibility to us anymore? We not considering some other 3p. If there is a way this could be LYLO, hit me, please. I've been pondering over this for days because I thought if LYLO was proposed, it surely is a possibility, right? And I don't want to look absolutely stupid, but the way PV describes this gamestate as LYLO is like he needs a lynch in order to win. His play in the beginning of today looks like he planned to tunnel Gio, but gave up midday because no one was interested.
VOTE: PV
He voted to lynch his own clear ().

Sorry, yes, Mylo. Does that change anything for you?
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Post Post #10826 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:03 am

Post by PeregrineV »

Heh. Quoting post 10,000 something.
that's insane.
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Post Post #10827 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:53 am

Post by JaeReed »

In post 10824, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 10822, JaeReed wrote:I feel like you're following popular opinion a lot lately and trying to appease me & Ank. It feels like everything you've pushed lately has been jumping on a small thing one of us noted to push it as a thing.

idunno I might be wrong. My gut was pinging me like crazy there though.

Is it even possible that scum forgets I'm mechanically clear here?
Since you were cleared before day5, right?

I would be voting Yoshi, but I'll wait for Gio first to throw in. He's been watching Yoshi's play.
I was cleared as vanilla by Titus before day 5 and specifically as VT through a Neapolitan check from Mathblade after day 5.
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Post Post #10828 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:21 pm

Post by Skullduggery »

Day 9, Vote Count #6

Current Vote Count:

(0)
Giovanni il Pellegrino
(1)
PeregrineV -- BigYoshiFan
(0)
Ankamius
(1)
BigYoshiFan -- JaeReed
(0)
Almost50
(0)
JaeReed

Not Voting:
Giovanni il Pellegrino, Ankamius, Almost50, PeregrineV

With 6 votes available, it takes 4 votes to hammer.

Day 9 Will End on Saturday, January 28th, at 8 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-28 20:00:00)



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Post Post #10829 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Well, I don't usually sheep others blindly, but I also don't usually feel as clueless. My vote on ANYONE is a vote on a Town read of mine.

Speaking realistically, I must have at least one wrong read because the game is still ongoing, but I have no way to tell which one, and there's no mechanical leads nor there are compelling arguments being made either.

All I know is I can fully trust JR bc he is the only confirmed Townie alive, and I thus should be voting Yoshi, not because I'm Scum reading him or even think that he has more chance of flipping red, but because the only conf!Town is voting there.

However, no matter how I try I can't get myself to just take a blind shot in the dark. We're not that desperate yet.

I will thus hold on to my view of a NO LYNCH being the best move under the circumstances. We should not be giving scum a better chance, and an even number players IS a better chance to scum.

This or a NO LYNCH.

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Post Post #10830 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:04 pm

Post by Almost50 »

EBWOP:

Ignore the last line. It was because I obviously was trying to get myself to place my vote on Yoshi, but I just couldn't do it, so I rewrote the post and forgot to take that bit out.

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Post Post #10831 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:23 am

Post by PeregrineV »

@Skull- going to be not much around this weekend. V/LA Jan 27-30
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Post Post #10832 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:24 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 10824, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 10822, JaeReed wrote:I feel like you're following popular opinion a lot lately and trying to appease me & Ank. It feels like everything you've pushed lately has been jumping on a small thing one of us noted to push it as a thing.

idunno I might be wrong. My gut was pinging me like crazy there though.

Is it even possible that scum forgets I'm mechanically clear here?
Since you were cleared before day5, right?

I would be voting Yoshi, but I'll wait for Gio first to throw in. He's been watching Yoshi's play.
Seems like I posted this more than a day ago, but it was only yesterday, when all my troubles seemed so far away.

But, it's still relevant.
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Post Post #10833 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:32 am

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

In post 10832, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 10824, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 10822, JaeReed wrote:I feel like you're following popular opinion a lot lately and trying to appease me & Ank. It feels like everything you've pushed lately has been jumping on a small thing one of us noted to push it as a thing.

idunno I might be wrong. My gut was pinging me like crazy there though.

Is it even possible that scum forgets I'm mechanically clear here?
Since you were cleared before day5, right?

I would be voting Yoshi, but I'll wait for Gio first to throw in. He's been watching Yoshi's play.
Seems like I posted this more than a day ago, but it was only yesterday, when all my troubles seemed so far away.

But, it's still relevant.
Yes, I know.

I am replying to it right now.
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Post Post #10834 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:36 am

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

Sorry for the delay. This post was meant to be posted around 6 hours ago, but I didn't had time to finish it.

First of all, guys, my ability is even night only. The upcoming night is Night 9 (odd), so no checks.
In post 10824, PeregrineV wrote: I would be voting Yoshi, but I'll wait for Gio first to throw in. He's been watching Yoshi's play.
So, I actually sat and re-read everything from Day 5 onwards.

There are several things I didn't like about Yoshi's behaviour in general but I didn't had time to organize my thoughts. I am going to separate this small thesis on "Before Maxous lynch", "After Maxous lynch" and "After SirCakez lynch".

Before Maxous lynch (Day 5-)


What stroke me as odd about Yoshi's behaviour initially was the fact that he replaced in a rather stale game where we were desperate for a new point of view, yet he didn't attempt to provide that in the slightest.

He replaced in during Day 4; he said he was re-reading the game, but he quit doing so around page 20. Fair enough, it isn't weird for a replacement not to read a bazillion-pages-long game. After that, he did nothing of substance for the remainder of the day.

During early Day 5 however, before the mass replacements, there was this whole pitchfork thing going on against Narna. While I could see why Andrius or SirCakez or really anybody else that has played since the beginning (and saw Narna escaping the noose thrice) would grab the pitchfork and be frustrated after that weird kill-positive he gave on Shiro, I couldn't understand why Yoshi was so frustrated as to agree with things like "everybody who doesn't vote for Narna is scum". Just before the replacements happened, he toned down his rhetoric a bit and unvoted Narna.

After the replacements, he begins sheeping, starting by sheeping Mathblade and even Mathblade calls him out on that. He then attempts to sheep A50 against Mathblade. He then stays on a limbo kind of state and then he sheeps Ankamius against Mathblade.

Bottom line: He posted a lot without contributing at all, always hiding behind someone else's opinion. That was, however, before Day 6, and since I now don't believe that there was a scum team prior to Maxous's lynch, he couldn't have been scum at the time.

He also was the only player left that had neither claimed or hinted at his role.


After Maxous lynch (Day 6+)


Day 6 starts with the faction announcement.

Then, at some point during early Day 6, he claims that he is responsible for the no-kill night under the pressure of being lynched. I have two major problems with the way he claimed:

1) Why did he wait until L1/L2 to claim a now useless role? Why let the rest of town muddle into shit while he could claim right from the beginning and save everyone the time? Was the priest part of his role worth it?

2) Why was he so unsure whether he was responsible for the no-kill if he had a blanket-type ability as he claimed to have? What else could have happened that prevented the kill, save for Nahdia jailing someone and telling right away?

Before his claim, he was, for the first and last time, actively trying to contribute on his own. He seemed to want to lynch Mathblade and hoped that some of those more sceptical about Mathblade and his hostile takeover around would follow suit. However, as the day progressed, he seemed to fall more and more again into safe sheeping territory (he no longer was in danger of being lynched), culminating to the fact that he apparently had no problem lynching creeps, a compromise lynch if I have ever seen one.

Even so, this was probably his best day. He actually tried to take initiative. This was quite different from the blind sheeping of Pre Maxous lynch.

Day 7 begins and he starts sheeping and pushing for the Mathblade/Giovanni scumteam as soon as CFJ announces that he will actually expand on why I am scum. Then he generally sheeps CFJ and JaeReed, hiding behind them. He momentarily unvotes SirCakez, voting Math and then me, and then votes SirCakez again.


After SirCakez lynch (Day 8+)


Day 8, after SirCakez is lynched, he drops all pretenses, wears his best lambswool jacket and just sheeps A50 and Jaereed to oblivion. Many of his posts that day was "I agree with this" "I agree with him/it/them" while generally letting A50, JR and/or Ankamius take the blunt of the Mathblade lynch. I also feel that a lot of his previous snarkiness has just vanished. It seems like he has become more careful, all of a sudden.

Day 9, Ankamius said it best and I have nothing to add.


So, to summarise:

1) Yoshi's demeanor changed for a brief amount of time after Maxous's lynch, before conveniently reverting back to his old sheeping self when it was no longer necessary to take initiative.
2) Same thing as 1) happened after SirCakez's lynch, although it was a change of a different kind. More subtle, definitely.
3) His role was unclaimed as of the culting night. Why is this important?

Amongst their proven ranks, town had:

a) A Bulletproof
b) A Psychologist
c) A Jailkeeper
d) A Motion Detector

Yet Maxous goes and cults the Inventor? My point is that Maxous probably didn't pick his cult based on the power of roles, but on survivability, as I have said before. A new replacement and unclaimed role would have had good chances of survival, along an inventor who would be useless after he gives his inventions away. In this case, Yoshi immediately "discharging" his healing effect actually makes a lot of sense. By forgoing a kill, the cult actually creates a pretty good alibi for one of it's members. If what I say about survivability is true (if Maxous was as concerned about survivability as much as I think he might have been), then maybe there are no two scum left but one, as he had to take into account the fact that the cult could be on a numerical disadvantage.

This last point makes sense from a balancing point of view, in my opinion, as well. Maxous was extremely difficult to find and lynch and we only managed to do so thanks to a very extraordinary string of events. It could make sense that his cult faction would be easier to get.

4) PoE. Currently there are 5 players alive, excluding me: JaeReed, Almost50 and Ankamius are on the "no" list. I gave some thought regarding Ankamius before this day started. He only seems to fit third party if he is not town, and even if he was, he would be the most ineffective third party I have ever seen. Maxous, the other "third party" was a force of nature, roleblocking, ascetic, faction-pooping juggernaut, while supposed third party Ankamius is basically a murderous version of a pokemon; if he gets enough hammers he evolves and can kill people and that is unless he doesn't get singled out and get himself lynched in the process, all the while being a miller and then hated.

That leaves us with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and that Green Lizard from Mario.

While Gideon is a caricature of a character and Elspeth was better at representing the traits of white mana, I find it hard to believe that Ankamius, supposedly an all around good player, could make a case as bad as this against me as scum in such critical a moment.

So that leaves us with Yoshi.

------------------------------

I might have missed something, but that is the gist of it. Honestly, there is no way that I am gonna read 150+ pages of content again.

Anyway, I hope the textwall actually sparks some discussion.

My vote is in essence on Yoshi. However, no-lynch is also a viable option, so I withhold my actual vote until we reach a consensus.
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Post Post #10835 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:49 pm

Post by JaeReed »

I want Yoshi lynch, don't want no lynch.
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Post Post #10836 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 6112, BigYoshiFan wrote:Anyone not voting Shiro or Narna is on my scumlist.
You mean this?

My claim late into day 6 was an attempt to gain information. I thought that the lack of a nightkill would have sparked more interest and perhaps through some theories that people came up with, especially MathBlade at the time, we would have more to analyze. My claim to have "probably" been the reason for the no-kill night was for that reason precisely, Nahdia's jailkeep, which may seem unnecessary but whatever.
I realize I have been quite a sheep, but I think I deserve a bit more credit then you're implying.
Also, kind of a bit late to start mentioning all of this, wouldn't you agree? We have 2 days left, this would have been much more useful for us earlier in the day.
Oh, and by the way. We have 2 days left. VOTE PV!
Are y'all content with a NL?
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Post Post #10837 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:02 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 10835, JaeReed wrote:I want Yoshi lynch, don't want no lynch.
Is this for the read you described earlier, what Gio has said, or something else?
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Post Post #10838 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:03 pm

Post by JaeReed »

Gio elaborated on the subtle sheeping thing I feel from you. So for the read I described earlier, obviously.
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Post Post #10839 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:12 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

I don't know what to say. I see something I like, I nod my head, I expand if I can, and I move forward. I feel my constant push on Math could be a non-example (is that a word? XD) of this. I don't feel like I was constantly sheeping someone whenever I discussed my scumread/suspicions on them.
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Post Post #10840 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:19 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

I don't like you calling creeps a compromise lynch to incriminate me.
I was the first one to do so with some reason (of which I did not sheep) behind it.
There was quite a bit of time before the lynch became appealing to people, and even then, it wasn't because of me (Narna, I believe).
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Post Post #10841 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by JaeReed »

UNVOTE:

@BYF does that make gio more or less likely to be scum then?
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Post Post #10842 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by JaeReed »

Also why do you think scum didn't jump on you with me?

@A50 a no lynch only means I die and you lose your clear. You understand that, right? Especially given Ank can't shoot, and Gio can't follow.
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Post Post #10843 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

In post 10834, Giovanni il Pellegrino wrote:While Gideon is a caricature of a character and Elspeth was better at representing the traits of white mana, I find it hard to believe that
Ankamius
, supposedly an all around good player, could make a case as bad as this against me as scum in such critical a moment.
Here, I meant PeregrineV. Dammit, I ruined the Gideon joke.

In post 10840, BigYoshiFan wrote:I don't like you calling creeps a compromise lynch to incriminate me.
I was the first one to do so with some reason (of which I did not sheep) behind it.
There was quite a bit of time before the lynch became appealing to people, and even then, it wasn't because of me (Narna, I believe).
Fair enough on the creeps bit. I feel like it was a compromise lynch, but since it was you that first voted, it was a compromise on the part of others and not you.
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Post Post #10844 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

In post 10836, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 6112, BigYoshiFan wrote:Anyone not voting Shiro or Narna is on my scumlist.
You mean this?
Yeah, or things like this:
In post 6191, BigYoshiFan wrote:Seriously, anyone who doesn't vote Narna in their first post of this day is scum.
I expected a more open-minded approach from someone who didn't carry with him the frustration of whatever nonsense had transpired up until that point.
My claim late into day 6 was an attempt to gain information. I thought that the lack of a nightkill would have sparked more interest and perhaps through some theories that people came up with, especially MathBlade at the time, we would have more to analyze. My claim to have "probably" been the reason for the no-kill night was for that reason precisely, Nahdia's jailkeep, which may seem unnecessary but whatever.
Herein lies my problem: Nahdia was claimed JK by that point. They would come right away and say who they jailed if they thought they had something. They had posted multiple times since Day 6 started. You claimed a now nigh useless role only when it was convenient for you to do so.
Also, kind of a bit late to start mentioning all of this, wouldn't you agree? We have 2 days left, this would have been much more useful for us earlier in the day.
Oh, and by the way. We have 2 days left. VOTE PV!
Are y'all content with a NL?
I don't have the time to post whenever I want to. Wish I had, it would have saved me a lot of uneccesary frustration.

No, I am not content with a NL. However, we may not reach a consensus and I was stating the fact that I can begrudgingly accept a no-lynch.
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Post Post #10845 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:14 pm

Post by Giovanni il Pellegrino »

In post 10842, JaeReed wrote:
@A50 a no lynch only means I die and you lose your clear. You understand that, right? Especially given Ank can't shoot, and Gio can't follow.

And I hadn't thought about that, but on second thought, it is a valid concern. NL means that most likely JaeReed dies. That means that next Day Phase we will be in the same situation as today, but with one player less. I don't think JaeReed's alignment can be argued anymore.
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Post Post #10846 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 10841, JaeReed wrote:UNVOTE:

@BYF does that make gio more or less likely to be scum then?
More, but his response makes it to a lesser extent. Still not enough to be scummier than PV.
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Post Post #10847 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 10842, JaeReed wrote:Also why do you think scum didn't jump on you with me?
Day's almost over, and they don't wanna be incriminated by sheeping?
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Post Post #10848 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

In post 10836, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 6112, BigYoshiFan wrote:Anyone not voting Shiro or Narna is on my scumlist.
This was before Shiro's flip, and the most common and logical opinion was that one of them was a liar, so I think I was well reasoned in saying this.

The other one, I guess you could say was narrow-minded and a sheep. My vote changed due to a kinda gutread, kinda tone read. They were still fighting and keeping up some contribution. The guilty to lynch a single person and sacrificing your legitimacy in the process just didn't hit me as ludicrous until after; I was still shocked at the false accusation. Not much to say, but it didn't cause any harm at the time, and I'm glad for that.
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Post Post #10849 (ISO) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:39 pm

Post by BigYoshiFan »

I won't be here for another 24-ish hours. I better see some PV vote spam goddammit!
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