Mod: during the brief time where Skybird was removed from the game, was she listed in 'alive', or 'dead'?
All players who have been 'removed from the game' (even by temporary effects with clear demarcations of return) should have been properly reflected as not being in the living player list.
As a follow-up on this, the only times the players weren't properly reflected as not being on the living player list were in situations where the ambiguity was an intentional part of the effect. For instance, had I removed the Crystal Gems from the living player list when 'BACK TO THE MOON' was triggered, it would have mod-confirmed those players as members of the Crystal Gems.
I think that I am comfortable with the idea of losing to a grapes-Almost50 scumteam here, so I think we are going to lynch today. (I'll let you know if I change my mind after I start my work.)
So!
The way I see it,
-Either neither of you are scum and Almost50 is (in which case, lynching either doesn't matter but we do so as a precaution anyway following one of the two below),
-Shiro is scum with grapes/Almost50 (likely grapes),
-Or, Reasonably Rational is scum.
If the first proves to be the case, who we lynch today doesn't really matter--it'd be town either way.
But I am going to assume that the lynch DOES matter.
So while this might be an error, I am going to assume one of you is in fact scum, and treat today as a traditional 3p lylo.
Now, I won't discard the Almost50-grapes scumteam in my research. But I really can't do much about that possibility other than research, now, can I? Out of the game means out of the game.
So, that means...what I CAN do here is to work under the assumption we are aiming to lynch scum today.
And by that, I have the following request to make:
Shiro, Reasonably Rational:
I want you to, as closely as you can get to your original role PMs without getting modkilled, roleclaim EVERYTHING about your roles.
The name of your character.
Every ability you have/had, both its effect and its flavor name.
Then, next, I want you to claim every action you've taken
including alliances
.
I want you to also, when listing your alliances, give a paraphrase of
everything
which happened in said PT. (Of particular note: I am going to flat-out DEMAND that both of you, separately, paraphrase your shared topic/topics, for some very obvious reasons. Use your own words and describe what happened.) Actually, when I say 'you two', I mean 'you three'. I want EACH head of Reasonably Rational, SEPARATELY, to respond to all of the above.
Then, outline any and all actions you have taken during the game: which action, when you took it, the results thereof.
All in one spot. Lay every private card of yours on the table at once. All three of you, as soon as humanly possible.
This may or may not take some amount of time, especially clearing your paraphrases with Varsoon. But I do mean it when I want this info from ALL THREE of you. Even if there's the temptation to say, "He said it better than I could". Don't give me that shit. I want it anyway, your words, inferior, superior, as they are.
I'm not expecting to get immediate use out of this, but I'm hoping it'll help me down the line after I continue doing my research.
Well, to be honest: start. Day started on the weekend and I've not had the time for this game. Probably won't today, maybe won't tomorrow, maybe not even Tuesday, but SOMEHOW I'll find the time in this game since I have no choice but to. Still, that gives you plenty of time to clear this info with Varsoon, and I'm expecting you to do so.
My first power is the abbility to keep alliances open after they were made
at season finale i can retain the bonuses those were giving if any(they count as neighbrhoods after being kept open and giev no bonuses even if they gave when proper)
Name: Next thing you know I am living wit the fisherman
My event that I never used though I will say tried to use last night is
Whatever you are dont be a stranger
It let me remake an old alliacne that regardless of other alliance i am in. Dyring that time we cannot negativly affect each other during the ep.
Tbh I tried using it last night on random to make sure he doesnt stupidly bubble me the next night because I know I am town.
As for alliances if I recall them correctly
Fire Mostly random stuff happened here we had a few discussion about day 1 suspects. Really nothing of note
random Nothing
Titus/RR Stuff I havent even read for the most part. You may want me to paraphrase here but in all honesty. I have actually talked there much if anything I wanted to make this alliance because I trusted both of them and I wanted to keep the hood open for them to talk indifinetly sayly titus died
fire(forgot he was out)
creature Nothing of note
almost and again nothing of note. I wanted ot ask him about his flavour and my hypothesis that rr had disproven already (maybe he was lying or something ) but yea other than that nothing.
I think that was the order. I can check but not right now way too late.
I think every night I was keeping my alliances as a night action par the night that I forsake my power for the cluster event.
To me:
shiro you are a charmer you were obvscum but for some reason people just wouldn't eliminate you ~Antihero
About me:
I stg this is how conversations with Lucifer go. ~Papa Zito
Our main ability, which we never ended up using, allowed us to roleblock our previous ally if they submitted someone else. So, for example, if we were allied with Titus on D1, if on N1 they submitted someone else as their ally(regardless of what ally action we took), we could roleblock them, and once we had done so, we could continue to roleblock them indefinitely. This ability only worked on one person at a time.
Our second ability caused anyone we hammered on Season Finale's to be killed, and nothing could stop their death.
Our event was beach-a-palooza, which you're well aware of the details of.
I'll check with Varsoon regarding what exactly I can say about ability names. I think Drixx may have actually already outright claimed some of them, which I always thought was pushing a bit too close to quoting your role pm.
Our alliances were as follows. I'll note the most significant information off the top of my head, but any more in depth paraphrasing will have to come tomorrow, these PT's represent 40ish pages of conversations.
D1: Titus. We claimed our event seeking to get her assistance in using it as effectively as she had used her "hidden voting during thread lock" power from Suikoden Mafia. She suggested we use it ASAP.
D2: Yume. We told her that we believed she was a CG, explained why, and fully claimed to her. We also asked her to coordinate voting for Beach-a-palooza.
D3: A50. He infodumped to us immediately, fully claiming everything XK had told him.
D4: Shiro+Titus. We received Shiro's claim, and gave our own role. Shiro misunderstood how his role functioned(he thought it could copy ally powers) and we spent time considering how to coordinate the dual roleblocks we thought we could now possess to PoE the scum team. During this time Titus stole our ally power as a role check, I guess. Drixx went insane in reaction to this(some ranting about how she must be scum with some false IC power). We made up with Titus, and she claimed everything she knew about MoI to us(I don't actually remember why, part of what I'll need to double check our conversation for).
D5: None. We attempted to ally with random, but since D4 was when Farside22 quickhammered Snarky alliances were never confirmed or properly arranged.
D6: Farside22. Not much happened here. We intended to talk at length but both Drixx and I were super busy during this time frame and barely even checked into the game.
D7: Randomidget. We fully infodumped everything we knew, and shared our current thoughts.
D8: A50 and TFL. Tried to calm them both down because we believed both were town, explained why they were town to each of them, and discussed who TFL should shoot.
D9: TFL: Asked fuzzy if he had any thoughts on why only his shot occurred, Drixx asked him how he was gambiting(I don't remember what post TFL made that prompted this question from Drixx), Fuzzy said he wasn't gambiting, and Drixx basically said oh, just assumed you were gambiting. That was that whole pt.
No alliances since. A lot more was said during these alliances than just the cliff's notes above, and I'll get all that to you.
While 2/3 of you giving prompt responses like this is indeed helpful, yeah I'll definitely be wanting more in-depth paraphrases of PTs. Those are actually one of the most important parts.
Also, personal request, but could you two crossvote?
It's not like you're going to have one of you self-hammer.
And it's not like I'm going to impulsively hammer. (There's far too much at stake for that.)
And it's not like crossvoting locks you into that and stops us from ever potentially no-lynching. (We could always change.)
At this stage, I am assuming we are going to lynch today.
Which means, I am assuming I am going to be voting one of you today.
But that decision might not come until literally
the
last possible minute. (Probably before then, sure, yeah, but it could be.)
If you're not around to vote later, that would be...rather bad.
It's one less thing I have to think/worry about today.
To me:
shiro you are a charmer you were obvscum but for some reason people just wouldn't eliminate you ~Antihero
About me:
I stg this is how conversations with Lucifer go. ~Papa Zito
There's more tasks I have to ask of you. Specifically, four for all of you, and two additional ones which're specific to Reasonably Rational (and I similarly want individual answers from both heads on each issue since I need their individual perspectives).
Time IS of the essence here.
Because, uh. Yeah. The more of these I get, the more informed my decision will be. There's VERY important stuff that needs to be done, but they need to be done in very specific orders in most cases and right now, there's this holdup.
I mean, as I admitted. I havent really read at all my alliance with RR and Titus. I have talked a little in it. Part of a conversation being about almost, who RR told me to trust. I think at one point I voiced my concern over you being leftover there and we talked a bit about my role that I had gotten wrong but on the top of my head I think that is pretty much it. I mostly as I stated made that thing for RR and Titus to keep a neighbrohood since i trusted both and they can be potent together.
My action in game have been pretty straightforward really
I was convinced Almost was scum based on the contradiciton i had found but then 180 because of flavour related reasons.
I blindly sheeped Titus on SirCake if I am not mistaken.
I was damn on far being town because the way she acted made no sense for scum, her fixation with gettin gm lynched was not something any scum would pursue like that only town bend on being right, is what I thought
I trusted sky a lot based soly on flavour
I was convinced DGB was scum because of play and meta based on another game that I do not recall right now. I think it miiight have been wake huge game but not 100%
uhmmI plainly scumread fuzzy but was wrong. He just felt off and my reasoning arent that far behind.
I don t think there is anythign else noteworthy to add.
To me:
shiro you are a charmer you were obvscum but for some reason people just wouldn't eliminate you ~Antihero
About me:
I stg this is how conversations with Lucifer go. ~Papa Zito
I'm not convinced that the first choice we should make today has been properly evaluated. That choice is binary: do something (lynch) or choose not to do anything (no lynch). Because of Varsoon's answers to my questions, and in particular his most recent clarification, there's a high enough probability that any lynch today will be a mislynch and either we lose outright or we lose you tonight and whomever is left is in a 3 way LYLO without much of anything to go on. Mostly my concern is an A50+Grapes team, but I'm not going to rule out possibilities without any reason to do so.
So I would like for you to lay out exactly why you feel the Grapes/A50 team is impossible (which to me seems a necessary conclusion to conclude that we must lynch today), or at least improbable enough to be worth risking just losing outright by acting today. That will save me trying to work that out and I can start what will be an arduous process of reading what I think is well over 1,000 posts worth of alliance chats and paraphrasing and additionally giving you (as much as I noted or can remember) the thinking going on at critical times. Since basically everything that went on in all of our alliance chats has been brought to the main game already, my sense of what you're asking is for both a full accounting and the why behind it. Please correct me if I misunderstand.
If you can walk me through why it's better to act today than not (apart from the obvious point that not acting could end the game), I will at least put down the crossvote you requested. I'm not trying to be overly difficult, but I cannot think of a rational reason to prefer action or inaction, and I'm getting the feeling that you simply want to be in control. In other words ... if the ship is going to sink, you're going to be the one driving it.
~Drixx
P-Edit: Paraphrasing 1000+ posts isn't a small task Mastin. I appreciate that you are putting effort in. Still would like the questions I've asked here to be answered. Sooner they are, the sooner we can move on; although, I must admit, I'm wondering what on earth you're going to ask next, LOL.
First alliances paraphrasing done, 6 pages of PT and it took about an hour, but it was a PT with Titus so there was more back and forth than there will be for most of them(except the Shiro/Titus/us pt which is 18 pages and will be fucking horrific to wade through)
I'm posting my version in my hydra PT for varsoon to vet, if he says it's okay I'll have that one up ASAP.
In post 12408, Shiro wrote:more advanced summary as in ? I havent really read at all my alliance with RR and Titus.
What I'm looking for is for you to actually read your alliance PTs (that one especially), and to then paraphrase as close as you can get the contents of there.
Not the summary of events in there: "We talked about these things."
More, "Titus said this, then I said this, then RR said this, then Titus said this, then RR said that, then Titus went and did..."
That.
You might think that's a level of extra work, but let me ask you: when I'm considering a lynch between you and Reasonably Rational, are you comfortable letting THEM dictate the narrative of the events therein? Because if you don't do this, that's basically what you're allowing.
In post 12409, Reasonably Rational wrote:I'm not convinced that the first choice we should make today has been properly evaluated.
One, that's the default option: if we don't lynch today, by default a no-lynch happens with us having done nothing.
Two, you're not the one who has to do the work there. That's me. If I want your opinion on this option (and I just might!), I will ask about it.
Three, that still doesn't address how there's no harm in you casting a vote on Shiro. What are you afraid of? I haven't hammered you, so I wouldn't hammer Shiro if you voted Shiro. Is Shiro self-voting a concern of yours? If not, then my previous statement still stands: there is no harm in you casting a vote for Shiro. If we decide to no-lynch later, then all I'd need to do to have that happen is not hammer. Or, we could flat-out vote for a no-lynch. Voting Shiro does not lock you in to a Shiro/RR lynch.
Mostly my concern is an A50+Grapes team, but I'm not going to rule out possibilities without any reason to do so.
Biased information. There's three possibilities.
Shiro is scum with one of Almost50/grapes. (Likely grapes.)
Almost50/grapes are scum.
Or there's only one scum, and it's either you or Almost50.
Those are the only options. Shiro cannot be solo-scum. Therefore, say you're lynched: we either instantly lose to a Shiro + secondscum team, or there's no kill because Almost50/grapes can't kill, and then we either lose to an Almost50/grapes scumteam or we know that Almost50 is solo-scum.
I would like for you to lay out exactly why you feel the Grapes/A50 team is impossible (which to me seems a necessary conclusion to conclude that we must lynch today), or at least improbable enough to be worth risking just losing outright by acting today.
Absolutely nothing!
The thing is.
If you are scum, I can get more information by assuming we are lynching, and working with you, talking to you, and about you.
If Shiro is scum, I can get more information by assuming we are lynching, and working with Shiro, talking to Shiro, and about Shiro.
If one of you two is scum, by assuming we are lynching, and by assuming one of you two are scum, I can involve you two in the decision-making process, because ultimately I am the one who makes the call and the ONLY way to involve you, realistically speaking, is to assume that we are lynching one of you.
If neither of you is scum...well, what the fuck can you two do to convince me to no-lynch?
There really isn't anything, there, now, is there?
And I can't ask Almost50.
I can't ask grapes.
I can't interact with either of them.
I can read about them.
I can research their past actions.
This, I can do.
But in the present, as they are out of the game, they are also out of my ability to engage.
And thus, assuming they are scum, for the purposes of engaging you two, is useless. It gives me nothing. It doesn't get me any closer to making my decision. It doesn't get me any closer to making the game-deciding call. Nothing you can say or do will change my perspective whatsoever on Almost50/grapes, because you aren't Almost50/grapes, and they aren't around to respond to anything you say on them.
In contrast: stuff you say about Shiro can and will change my perspective on Shiro AND you, because you are you, and Shiro is around to respond to you. For the purposes of engagement, it is therefore most productive to assume one of you is scum, and to engage you as if this is a traditional 3p lylo.
It's my job, and my job alone, to on my own, do research into Almost50/grapes.
And if you want to know what's next on the agenda, I can give it to you as soon as I've got your own paraphrase of your role and actions.
The PTs are secondary, and relate to a later question on the agenda, but the very next question doesn't need knowledge from PTs. It does need fully-in-the-open paraphrases.
this isn't one of my questions specific to you. And it's not addressed to a specific head. And not something I expect both to answer, one will do.
But, as a matter of personal convenience, could you compile the closest possible paraphrase of every aspect you know of Almost50 and grapes's roles?
I could probably do this myself, but you doing it would be faster and make my life easier. (Because, yes, it does influence me.)
Pearl points are awarded for punctuality, perseverance, and positivity.
If you ally with another player, you may reward them with 'Pearl Points'.
The points cumulate and are never taken away.
Pearl Points can not be rewarded on Episodes when the Exposition ended on a 'No-Lynch'.
Players will earn 1 Pearl Point for being on the same wagon you are on when the Exposition Phase ends.
Players will earn 2 Pearl Points for allying with you on consecutive Episodes.
Players will earn 3 Pearl Points for lynching scum.
During the Season Finale or at +3 or Higher Stress, players earn double the Pearl Points.
We may be smaller, weaker, and less gifted than our opponents but with these P's, we have the keys to success aaaand to the Pearl prize pouch!
You may, at any time, reward players who have earned enough Pearl Points.
If a player has 100 Pearl Points, you may allow them to achieve a unique third-party win-condition and leave the game.
What do you have to say about
yet another
third party wincon in the game?
For those keeping track,
-We have Xkfyu as a potential survivor (who could be beneficial to scum)
-We have farside as a potential 3p leaving the game in victory
-We have any number of players able to reach 100 Peal Points and leave with a 3p victory (admittedly, probably only one, and ridiculously hard--it'd take by my math somewhere around ten days to achieve this victory in ideal circumstances).
-We know there were four crystal gems at the start: Yume, MoI, randomidget, and Klingoncelt. They were apparently special/harder town, if you assume they told the truth about their wincon. (Which we've assumed, but as you'd be so apt to point out, don't know for sure was a fact.)
-We know the scum started with at least 5 members, plus DGB as a traitor.
-The town is therefore made up of 19 - 4 -1 = 14 players, at the start.
Or, 14 + 4 if you'd like.
-The possibility of two unique third party wins brings that number down by two, to 12 + 4, in the worst-case scenario.
^Note the above is if there's five scum plus DGB at the start and grapes is full-town.
If grapes is leftover, then the math instead becomes:
18 -4 - 1 = 13, or 13 + 4.
Third party wins bring it down to 11 + 4.
grapes joining scum + Xkfyu not joining the gems = 5 + 1(DGB) + 1(grapes) +.5 (Xkfyu) scum in the game.
Against 11 + 4 town in the game.
I already talked about my feeling about these odds which is why I am convinced for a while now that there is only one scum. I made a similar post a while back.
Peridot could already ally with scum by talking to them with her power and then playing as an extra traitor or something.
Adding grapes to that mix of potential scum and add the fact that fat could subtract from town absvtge fact that the scum don't even need to kill the crystal gems to win and it quickly becomes really off for town.
BTW fine I will try to read the Titus and rr back and forth. But it will have to wait for Saturday the earliest. I have a project to finish for exams for Friday plus other exams.
I get where you are coming from and I will try but I will be lying if I promised I would 100% do it,let alone efficiently.
To me:
shiro you are a charmer you were obvscum but for some reason people just wouldn't eliminate you ~Antihero
About me:
I stg this is how conversations with Lucifer go. ~Papa Zito
Titus alliance below, post as vetted by Varsoon. Note that he said it skirts the line in a lot of ways but he'll allow it, so...I'll be tryng to be less thorough going forward, to try to step back from that line.
I'm directly quoting everything said by our slot, and paraphrasing the Titus/Beeboy slot. The thing we're both hinting at here was our crumb about our beachapalooza event.
beeboy: generic exclamation of joy
OWK: Reads are forthcoming, asks us about them Apples.
Cerb: "Yo. I'm at work, so I won't have much to say in depth for about 9 hours or so. "
OWK: Reads(I'll elaborate if you want, but it's difficult to do so without quoting)
Cerb: "Beeboy, I'm very weirded out by your lack of presence in the game and the fact that you aren't pressuring ANYONE.
Please explain."
OWK: Asks about Drixx's reach out and if I think we're alone.
Cerb:"Alone as in is someone watching? If someone is capable of watching PTs, if they have ANY experience with us at all, it's almost guaranteed that we would be a high priority to watch. If mastin2 had allied, she would have also been one, but she didnt.
I'll look over the aliance list and see who else anyone would potentially want to watch.
And...beyond that, I can't talk about what he was saying because beeboy is honestly weirdIng me out. His non presence isn't normal for him as any alignment, so I have no idea what to think about it."
OWK: wants to talk about our crumb, but can't if we won't engage, beeboy is letting Titus kick things off, will be around later, and they don't want to be townread.
OWK: Asks if I think FB=scum, who would I lynch among NC/Creature/Random if I had to choose, and asks my thoughts on her readwall.
Cerb: "Confused by cooldog reminding you of saga and being in your scum pool. I think he was town there, but I might be totally wrong?
This head doesn't think fire is scum, but this head is also not used to fire playing mafia actively. :/
Creature, probably, but I don't see any reason to think there scum. Randomidget gets some townie points for referencing our town alliances in previous games...not that he couldn't do it as scum, BUT the exact way he spoke feels like the way he'd refer to it as town. I'm not familiar with NC or Creature at all, but creature would win as my choice there because I see NC providing content so I'm more certain I'll be able to read them accurately later on than I will be able to read Creature. "
OWK: thought cooldog was scum(here she's misremembering SF)
Drixx:"Kind of need you to care about being obvtown to us. I'm fairly certain you figured out what I was referring to, and if we can get past the sniffing each other's asses stage and I can get a solid town feel from you, then I think we can be more open and try and plan out how to maximize what we do and see if that twisted mind if yours can come up with any ways to catch scum with it.
But ... first things first."
Cerb:Quoted post 644, then said "Those are alliances I think, kts and snarky may have allied too.
If scum can look at alliance pts, would they look at any pt besides this one? Meh. Idk. Thinking about it this depends on the timing of when they'duse such a power. If it's a day thing, it's obviously best to look at the 5 man PT, unless they already have a member in their. In that case, it would be second best to look at mastins, since she's apparently conftown now.
If they made the decision based on pregame stuff..I feel like they'd choose ours. "
OWK: You know I don't care about being townread and don't want people to express townreads on me, I just wnat you to confirm we're talking about the same thing so I can help without outing stuff. I gave you my reads, and it's best to treat you as town until I have cause not to.
Drixx:"I'm not asking you to spill info. I just want you to talk to me in a way that will make me sure that YOU are town, because we're going to have to talk in some detail about what we do to get the best use out of it. As soon as I saw the power I was reminded of the game I crumbed to you.
There's like ... the regular usage for what our power can do and then there's this possibility space where it could have SO MUCH more utility."
Drixx:"And you assuming I'm town as a default position scares the fuck out of me. Who are you and what did you do with Titus?"
OWK: Quotes the first post from Drixx in the pair above, has to assume we're town if she's gonna work with us, otherwise the best thing to do is out our crumb.
Drixx:"Going to have to run it by Cerb to see what we're willing to say. Any attempt to use this to snare scum could be horribly manipulated if we read you wrong and you're scum just telling your team what "advice" you're giving us.
I'm weirded the fuck out by you right now."
OWK: ship already sailed, I'm just gonna scum hunt, i don't want to play around like this, either you think I'm town or you don't.
Drixx:"The ship certainly hasn't sailed."
OWK: Guess I misinterpreted the crumb and have no idea what's going on.
Drixx:"There's a world of difference between you knowing we can do something and you knowing exactly how we hope to snare scum with it. Normally you are climbing up my ass like you're a colonoscopy scope trying to work out my alignment but here you are like totally "IDGAF" about it. What's up with that?
P-edit: You got what I wanted you to to out of the crumb."
Cerb:"No, you have some idea, it's just what we have is different enough that just knowing about the potential utilization connection wouldn't let scum!you game things, I don't believe. At least, not anymore than the publicly announced portions of things would.
Also, Drixx thinks you're fucking with us with the whole "let's just assume we're all town in a nice happy family together" thing.
You have to admit, it is pretty dang far from the way our interactions in similar situations in the past have gone."
OWK: In this game I don't have to care about what others think, I only need to worry about what I beleive is correct. I don't trust you enough to tell you why. The best play for me is talking about it, if you're town it saves trouble, if you're scum you might slip up.
Beeboy: I'm busy, can't get into the game because people didn't vote.
OWK: I think people are trying to lynch you and I don't want you lynched D1 and don't think you should claim your power because it will look bad.
Cerb:"Lol. My ability would certainly look good actualy, but I just don't know if it's best if used unannounced or what groundwork to set.
I'm not too worried about lynch risk tbh. Not getting lynched is sorta my thing."
Drixx:"Cerb is nearly impossible to lynch and I'm not going to beat myself up because I saw something off in a couple posts and pushed people. They will get over being butt hurt about it and move on to actual scum hunting."
OWK: Disagree, what you're hinting at isn't townread without a plan or a townread slot owning it. Asks our thoughts on mastinas team(not sure on context here, if she's asking about our thoughts on something mastin suggested as scum team, or if she's suggesting mastin is scum and wants to know who we thought the teammates were.)
Drixx:"You haven't asked anything directly, have you? I have no idea what suspicions you want confirmed or denied. Let's see what I feel comfortable saying right now, which might help:
1.) What we can do is indisputably pro-town and hopefully we didn't err by letting you know. We'd rather not be killed out of this game before we can ensure it ends the way SU should have.
2.) What we can do will do what your ability in that game did. The game thread will get locked and people will have a/some choice(s)/decision(s) to make while the thread is locked.
3.) My gut says you're town but you know that neither Cerb nor I trust our gut and I can't find a reason in your ISO for why my gut is associating your play with town. This makes me wary a little bit.
3a.) I went out on a limb (Cerb wasn't down with it but he told me to do it if I was sure), and now it would be stupid not to try and maximize utility.
I'm waiting for Cerb to be available to talk, but I think we should probably just trust you. The absolute worst case is that we design a plan and if you are scum then the scum team has to behave in a believable way and somehow avoid the trap we plan. You're good, but I'm not sure you can fool both Cerb and I that a plan to catch scum is sound while at the same time being scum and keeping scum from getting caught.
So I think logically we just need to trust a little and try and get a plan set up. Remember how effective it was in that game when you were able to spring it early and get scum on their heels? That's the kind of utility I really hope we can get out of this."
OWK: Misunderstood the power, best use is to test a theory of some sort, and the sort of thought you'll need to create said theory might be outside your normal playstyle.
Drixx:"I'm talking to Cerb right now. I think the only way we can move forward is to tell you exactly what our ability does and what people will be voting for. I'm not sure how much info Varsoon is going to give out and whether we need to say something to the game or not. If he just locks the thread and tells people to vote ... I'm not sure any predictors could be accurate at all. But as long as we or he tell the game what's going to go down, we should be able to get good results out of it."
OWK: Okay. Maybe Beeboy and I can help.
Drixx:"Okay; Cerb is on board with my thoughts.
We have to trigger our ability during climax and the following exposition phase the day will start with the thread locked and the beach-a-polooza event will happen. Everyone will vote and the winner will get to choose in private between three 1-shots:
1.) Passive kill immunity used the next time they get targeted with a kill
2.) Climax usage "gunsmith" check (maybe gunsmith+; they can find out if someone is capable of killing or not)
3.) 1-shot climax usage lightning rod (all abilities re-directed to the winner)
The winner will have their flavor posted publicly (the fake claims for scum).
A vote for a person is worth 1 point, worth 2 if the person is in an alliance with the voter and self-votes are worth 3 points.
Scum votes are halved: .5, 1 and 1.5 <---- this seems like a possible avenue to catch scum. Varsoon is going to post how many points the top 3 vote getters receive, and ties will be broken in favor of whichever player has more words in their role pm.
So we have to submit the event action at night and if it resolves successfully, then the following happens:
Varsoon will announce the event, how the voting points work and I believe even what the rewards are, but I don't think he will out that we triggered it. There's a really obvious flavor connection if you have watched the show, so we're a little wary of obviously outing our flavor. I asked him to clarify if the votes will be revealed or not, and they will not, except that the point totals for the top three vote recipients will be posted.
I've had a bunch of ideas about how best to use this, but I really can't decide whether it would be best to try and co-ordinate getting a specific reward to a specific person. It would be awesome, for example, if we had a Party Host (role that reports everyone that visited it the night it ends up dead) that got the lightning rod, for example.
Best case would be to wind up with the 1-shot in the best possible hands along with a solid plan to catch scum.
So there you go. Cards on the table. If you've watched the show you even know who we are now."
Drixx:"actually never mind about the party host + lightning rod combo ... that would be awful. I even know that from experience because I was Party Host for a Baldur's Gate themed game on my home site and was gifted a lightning rod and used it and the net effect was sub-par.
But there are almost certainly some potent combos possible."
OWK: Lemme talk about an idea with beeboy.
Cerb:"Some hind Drixx forgot: our ability is only usable at +1 stress, and has no effect on the meter. So....we can't use it right now, but could have used it yesterday/going into today. :/
That's why I said it has limitations thst might make it so it's not usable for awhile."
OWK: Idea won't work yet, asked if the game drixx referenced above was on SC2.
OWK: Let's talk about mastins reads, do you agree?
Drixx: Quotes the previous, then "You mean apart from her shitty read on us?"
Drixx: "And as far as the time being ripe: I'm pretty sure the most probable outcome will be that when exposition #2 starts, the ability will have it's stress meter requirement met and will happen."
OWK: Quotes the Drixx post quoting her post, then exprsses agreement.
OWK: Quotes the Drixx post about ripe time, and asks if we could submit at climax 2.
RR(Neither of us signed this, but I think it's Cerb!):"I think it's stress at time of submission that's most relevant....so yes climax 2 is probably the earliest it will work, barring other events that modify the meter, and assuming town deaths, which is generally speaking most likely."
Drixx:"I checked with Varsoon. The stress is checked at the start of the exposition and in priority. So even if we're dealing with a single scum team and no other anti-town and no vigs, the highest probability between now and then is that two town will die, which will mean the stress meter is where it needs to be. If we submit it tonight and the stress meter isn't where it needs to be, that will mean good things happened and the delay won't be an issue. We won't lose our event if the stress meter isn't in the right place. It simply won't trigger.
That's why I said that at the start of exposition #2, the requirement will be met and the event can happen. We aren't obligated to use it right away, but it strikes me as the kind of thing we want to ensure we get triggered sooner than later, especially when someone people might listen to has decided we're scum for reasons that make your most extreme moon logic look sane. I mean ... odds are there's at least a 1-shot vig or something along those lines out there and some Mastin worshipper might zero vig us before we do it.
Ergo my desire to figure out how to use it to maximum effect and why I thought was worth taking the risk to just put the cards on the table."
OWK: Are votes public?
Beeboy: wants us to soft results using day start reads.
OWK: Assisngs soft detection to beeboy.
Cerb: Quotes OWK's previous question about vote revealing, then "No. The top three vote receivers will be revealed, along with their totals.
It's really quite a different beast in the details from the ability you used.
I honestly don't really see anything great we can do with it, other than working with the town to coordinate the votes in advance to minimize scum influence,so the right person ends up winning...I mean I see the potential for stuff, but it's really hard to tie a specific slot to any vote. "
OWK: Do it unexpectedly and then all claim votes, to make scum lie or give power to town, and tells us what they want either way.
Cerb:"Hmm. Do you think we can trust town to actually behave rationally in this situation? What can we expect them to do without direction if town is dumb and protectives don't keep mastin alive tonight? That's my real worry here, that the obvious choice of mastin will disappear, and town will just screw things up."
OWK: Believes OWK, Farside, or Mastin should be the choice of beach-a-palooza, only the mass vote claim is important.
OWK: Assumes number of voters gets revealed.
Drixx:"I'm pretty sure the only way Mastin dies tonight is if scum have some way to guarantee their kill succeeds, and while Varsoon likes to change things up, it wouldn't surprise me if we see a scum strongman whose ability to bypass protection is tied to the season finale mechanic again. Or my spec could be wrong and Cerb could be right but if that's the case there's literally no reason to spend any effort worrying about it. We can't trigger it any sooner no matter what, and we can set up a conditional trigger of "We want to trigger our event IF X player is alive" I think.
Also Titus ... you OTAF'd super hard in #1288. I'm not sure if it was intentional. It reads as emotionally motivated to me. You seemed to be trying not to OTAF to us and in fact acted like you didn't care how we read you but if you were going for ambiguity, you threw it out the window with that post."
OWK: I stopped trying to not be townread, vote NC.
OWK: Suspects fire for ignoring SU and attacking her
OWK: Doesn't believe he forget SU
OWK: Meant Suikodent, not SU
Drixx:"Firebringer is definitely acting way outside the norm. That's why I was pushing him earlier. I'm not completely sure he's scum.
I think we'll support the NC wagon. What you pointed out about the wagon is spot on."
OWK: Thanks, considers first four as a scumteam but not expressing it to avoid tunneling complaints, asks who they should ally with.
Cerb:"For the record, we should absolutely NOT support the NC wagon if you want it to go anywhere. At least not yet. Just saying. Based on the thread temperature regarding our slot, our support of that wagon will give scum a good excuse for why they're ignoring the reasons to think Not Chara is scum, and may outright kill what support you've gathered.
Just something to consider.
Also, I don't think the total number of votes will be revealed, because our ability doesn't say that's the case, but I'll double check."
Cerb:"Wtf is cooldog saying about a not chara/mastin flip?"
OWK:Quotes above, wants to test fire, reiterates question about who they should ally with.
OWK: Snarky response to 1340 that she wants to post
Cerb:"Lol. And good cop/bad cop how? Also what is your objective for allying? Is it sorting scumspects, or building a town bloc?"
OWK: Sicnce people scumread you, you attack fire and I'll defend him and he'll think he can pocket me, and I'm not sure which objective so you should suggest a best choice for each.
Cerb:"Actually, I sorta think shiro is best for both. You know Shiro and could this sort them, and if you get them involved they'll actually be effective in the game. DGB is always unreadable to me, she doesn't do enough, and I need to reread McMennos ISO, so I can't really say anything there.
And mmm, when I get home, maybe Drixx can say things until then."
OWK: Thinks farside is using moonlogic
OWK: Tells us to ally with grapes
Cerb: "Double checked SF, Cooldog was town there, he just appeared very scummy and was the D1 lynch."
Cerb:"So, it's possibly both mastin and yourself are suspicious of him due to the same behaviors that got him mislynched there. No idea what his scum game is like though. "
OWK: maybe. suspects six scum, with only one being vocal.
Titus: asks why we didn't ask her to do some digging, and wnats our thoughts on fb's request
Cerb:"Because I want to see who cares enough to actually go dig. :p
If you're free though, it wouod be awesome if you collected thst information in here for analysis. ^^"
Titus: Time is the problem, not desire, and repeats the fire question.
Cerb:"Oh, sorry, missed the question. And yeah, time is always a problem. :/
Umm. I actually think it's a little weird? It sort came out of nowhere, I don't think I've noticed any sort of resonance between your slot and his in terms of your stances on things, but I think he did express the belief you were town at one point so it makes sense in that way. "
OWK: Collected VC's
OWK: Asks about PT spies.
OWK: Getting scumread backfired, asks us to try to get them less townread so they don't die.
Cerb:"*sigh* defending myself is exactly how I wanted to spend tonight.
I'm going to ignore them actually, and try to actually figure out your McMenno town read/others scum read on them."
OWK: Nothing to defend against.
Cerb:"Yeah, I know. That's why I'm not going to bother, otherwise I'll just get annoyed.
Creatures vote on me IS super weird. Expresses a townread on me and then jumps on the wagon once it's being pushed by other, more credible slots."
Titus:suggests we get the information about this weirdness and she can point it out
Cerb:"Sorry, was watching Mr. Robot. You already grabbed the posts, that's why I noticed it. In the quotes you pulled from him he specifically states a townread on our slot."
Drixx:"I really want to make the following post so badly, but I want another set of eyes on it. I'm afraid I might be dumping gasoline on a fire, but I'm just freaking angry:
Okay let me see if I got this straight:
1.) Wagon on NotChara wouldn't budge despite really good reasoning and fairly obvtown first 4 on the wagon, which is a classic sign that scum don't want that person wagoned. I mean do you guys need a fucking neon sign here?
2.) We're being wagoned for no actual reason that I can tell, and some of the scummiest players jump right on and nobody bats an eye.
3.) Finally: Fucking TITUS, of all people, is telling you guys that we're obviously town by play, by role and because what we do is so fucking obviously town it hurts and has strong pro-town utility. If you don't realize how fucking BIZARRE it is for Titus to be saying that about us on day one, please come out from whatever rock you've been under and look at her game history and interactions with me and Cerberus. Like ... Cerberus didn't even think it was worth us talking to them to try and maximize the utility of what we do because he didn't think it was possible for them to town read us and be willing to help us with how to do it. So this is Titus pulling a read from ME. This is the same Titus who still insisted I was scum after a cop clear on me in WDPT, and after I was shown to be correct about one of the scum teams being a werewolf (which I outed before anyone could have known except the wolf team because I was immune to them). Like ... the monumental moment it is that Titus FINALLY gets us right, and people are trying to handwave that away?
Mastin is conftown and needs to get the fuck off the crack pipe when it comes to us. I'd bet anything at least two or three scum are on our wagon already, and the non-scum on our wagon need to remember that conftown doesn't mean confRIGHT.
~D
I kind of want to eviscerate Mastin a bit for how shitty she played the original SU. Like ... I'll give her propers for being above average at reads, but above average based upon site statistics means 50% right. Nobody is so right they should be able to push a wagon with no reasoning. And seriously, her play in SU amounted to the following: made an absurdly stupid assumption about her role which caused us to have to save her from being lynched when she couldn't conftown on day 3 like she had declared at the start of the game, which we could only do by outing ourselves as Steven and basically vouching for her. She then proceeded to be wrong about what little she said the rest of the game and was worse than useless on the last day.
I feel like if I unleash my vicious side and unload on her people will just think it's OMGUS though, even though it's actually a rational and objective analysis of her play in that game.
It would feel good, but I don't think it would help. I don't know if the quoted post draft would help or hurt either. Cerb said I should post it here and ask."
Cerb: "Spoiler: Weird creature read and vote progression, he says we're town, then we post a whole bunch and do a bunch of stuff, and then he says we're not doing anything and votes us" Within the spoiler, posts 783, 817, 824, 827, 829, 836, 840, 864, 1069, 1098, 1182, 1190, 1252, 1258, 1260, 1261, 1267, 1272, 1273, 1324, 1329, 1343, 1355, 1463 and 1469.
Cerb:"I was actually pretty sure you were way off on the creature thing btw Titus, because it seemed like it was purely a circumstantial read based off the pre-flip associations with NC, but...that progression is bad. "
Cerb:"I would need to check the timeline to see exactly when he *first* voted us. The second vote is clearly opportunistically timed, but I don't know if the initial shift onto us(before moving on McMenno) was."
OWK: Quotes Drixx's rant post, syas it would help her but she plays differently, notes that Drixx praising mastin at first then attacking her when she suspected us will look suspect.
OWK: Doens't like creatures policy lynch push on her and calls mastina hypocritical because mastina won't accept titus vouching for us.
OWK: I'm not drunk, I just want to seem nice.
Drixx:"Mastin is above the site average as a town player. That doesn't make her infallible. I called bullshit the second she gave her "reasoning"."
Titus: Guess NC is getting lynched instead of you, i'll double check in the AM.
Titus: Let's talk, you have a largely town wagon which is bad for you unless you're on a scum wagon.
Cerb:"DnD is over in an hour...then I'll have at least a few hours before I do anything tonight."
OWK: TTYL
OWK: You're going to die if you don't sheep mastin.
Cerb:quotes the above, then "Meh. Actually playing mafia like I haven't really been able to do properly in thread should be sufficient. I need to examine SC and McMenno. I started reading McMennos ISO this morning, but didn't finish."
OWK: Mcmenno's definitely town.
Cerb:quotes the above, then"I sorta have to so I can understand *why* there's all this conversation about him, to figure out whether or not any of the pushes on him actually make sense, or if it's all just noise and lynchbait. "
OWK: Do it fast and we're not lynching him.
Drixx:"Why is Mastin so good sometimes and so dumb other times?
She basically said the following: "Let's just pretend that Titus is an idiot so I can keep claiming RR is scum for no reason. But I think we should lynch SirCakez. I won't point out that the only actual case against anyone with any actual analysis and effort in the game so far came from Cerb working his ass off. If I don't point that out, then I can get credit if he flips scum and if he flips town I'll point everyone to Cerb's post and blame him."
Did you catch that she outed knowledge of who Steven is? How the hell would she know that ... and WHY would she say something that could lead scum to Steven?
Post #2445 - Who did Skybird ally with?
I don't even know what to say to that. I really want to rip her to shreds. You have no idea. I put in a vicious post in our hydra PT for therapeutic purposes."
Cerb:"Umm Drixx, the entire game knows Skybird has an alliance with Steven Universe.
It's in the opening post for the day. "
Drixx:"Herp derp on my part. In my defense, I have been dealing with a pretty serious medical condition."
Titus: Ventings okay, I want to silence farside and fb, I almost think my reads are wron gbecause of their stubbornness.
OWK: Vote SC.
Cerb:"I need to respond to his response. It, well, it actually was fairly reasonable. There are a couple things in there that pique my interest, but overall it's not bad. My skim doesn't say it's so not bad as to outweigh everything else, but it's worth looking into. "
Cerb:"So, just something to consider: If SC is scum, it seems basically impossible to get him lynched today. Between his teammates not voting him, and the joyride members not voting him, we'll basically need like 70%+ of the remaining town to vote for him. The existence of the joy ride even muddles how obvious it could be if his teammates refused to vote for him. "
Titus: We'll get the votes, don't worry.
OWK: Your vote will be the tipping point.
TItus: Taking the credit will stop the wagon.
Cerb:"It is 100% up to mastin whether this particular issue becomes major or not. We'll see what she has to say whenever she shows up.
Honestly, I would *much* prefer the NC wagon over this one, considering that one just completely disappeared for no reason I can see."
Titus: Agreed, but the AtE scared off people, we can get NC tomorrow.
Cerb:":/ you probably shouldn't have told the whole thread that you actively wanted to be scum read. Main reason to desire that is to lower your chance of being nkd, and announcing it to the thread means scum can figure that out too. :/"
OWK: No scumreads on me mean going to my backup plan.
Titus: Thoughts on what's going on? I'm sick.
Cerb:"Hate blank votes, coming from the slots they come from it makes me suspicious thst we've reached the tipping point and those two votes are scum rushing to make sure they're on the lynch,but probably at worst only one of xkfyu and creature is scum (assuming a scum flip from SC of course). If he's town, they could both easily be scum. That's pure theory talk though, doesn't take into account either slots play style.
Alsox feel better k?"
Titus: minimum of one is scum.
Cerb:"Actually, if he flips town, it's REALLY unlikely that either is scum imo. Considering the thread apathy, there would be no need for scum to jump on this wagon to push it over the edge."
Titus: I'll deal with that when it comes up.
Titus: whatever was just claimed in the main thread is a scum role.
OWK: exasperatoin at Farside
Cerb:"I don't want him hammered until I can sort out wtf farside and A50 are doing. How did A50 miss what was apparently a line in his pt that told him he was BP/now figure out the source of it? Why would farside remove the bp and targeting restrictions? It doesn't make sense."
OWK: I believe almost is the reason the hood was bp and SC convinced them he made it BP and farside blew it all up in a tantrum.
Titus: Claims something related to BP but no details.
Cerb:"I don't understand how SC could be fake claiming the bp thing.
The rest of the PT can corroborate it, and already has, except for Cooldog. FB said he revealed role details under the assumption of BP, A50, Farside, and SC all say they're bp from an alliance effect.
What load of crock is he selling?
Why can't there be multiple BP/enablers in a game where scum get autostrongman kills when they start to lose?
Sleepy time now."
Titus: Thinks the BP source was A50.
Cerb:"No, there are two effects that have been mentioned.
One is a limited targeting thing, where they may only target within and be targeted by those within the joyride, and another is an outright kill protection.
They're using different verbiage from what the OP from Varsoon has to say about the joyride. I'm pretty sure the bp is a totally separate thing from A50's thing, otherwise he wouldn't have let SC claim it as his own effect..."
OWK: Quotes 2984
OWK: Beleives he's saying in 2984 that A50 is giving SC credit for his own power.
Cerb:"I fail at sleeping.
The real point of my search for clarity, OWK, is to determine if A50 KNEW that SC could grant BP to mastin(or at least, if he SHOULD have known). Determining whether or not I trust his claim to have "missed" it is another issue entirely.
Any thoughts on NC completely ignoring the post where I tell him that his opinion regarding this issue isn't trustworthy because he's most likely to be lynched if the SC lynch doesn't go through? I would have expected him to note that I'm just as likely to be lynched(since the main point of that argument is that the same people who are going after SC are suspicious of him as well, and there's a moderate overlap with those who are suspicious of me as well). "
OWK: Asks if I suspect NC, and doens't trust A50's analysis of the game.
Cerb: Quotes the prevoius, and then "NC has been an unsubstantiated scumread for awhile, largely influenced by both Drixx and yourself. He's on the list of things to look into if I ever get the time."
OWK: Cool, I won't post until you guys catch up with one another.
Cerb:"Wouldn't mastin be a better attempted ally than Yume for you?
And I'm confused by why that whole pt knew they were bp, but you claim to have a similar interaction and I haven't been informed of anything.
Bleh. Axtually, I think talking about this any more could only hurt us.
Also, sorry about last night. I got caught up in the desire to achieve perfect understanding of the game state/correct you when I waa pretty sure you were wrong about the game state, and didn't spend enough time considering if the points under discussion actually mattered.
I'm going to try to trigger my event every night from now on, and it has priority 0, so it should be able to coexist with all other events. "
Titus: because yume mad ethe request I figure she's talking to them.
Cerb:"I mean in terms of utilizing your protective thing you have going on. Yume is a much less likely shot than mastin. Mastin won't be shot at tonight because it's too obvious, but tomorrow she might be, so you'd want to be her ally then. I mean I have no idea what your ability is, but that just makes sense to me."
Thread close
Will be reading that later (god I hope time doesn't fly by), but still need Drixx's role paraphrase,
Drixx to paraphrase,
And both of you to weigh in on the question in 12415/12416.
Yo, game night last night so I didn't end up with any time for this, sorry Mastin...and I'm supposed to go visit a friend tonight, so I might not be able to paraphrase any more days until Friday.
Varsoon got back to me about my ability names, I can use them freely as long as I'm not actually quoting the PM it came from.
So, the "roleblock when my current ally chooses someone else for their next ally" power is called "I understand enough! You're only my friend when it's convenient for you"
The season finale hammer kill is called "Just get out of my life!"
Our event is called "Beach-a-Palooza".
Our win conditon header quote is "I just thought, for once, I'd get to do things my way, but you came in and took over everything, like you always do!"
To answer your questions: The pearl points thing changes *nothing* about the setup. Assuming 7 anti-town roles, the point progression would be, at best(not counting the doubling, we'll get to that in a second): 4, 6(10), 6(16), 6(22), 6(28), 6(34), 3(37), 3(40), 3(43), 3(46), 3(49), 3(52). Assuming one kill and one lynch per day, that's as far as it would go, because on that last day we'd be in Lylo. Even if the point gain was doubled EVERY SINGLE DAY they would only cross that goal on the very last day(as they entered lylo, they would gain the 2 points from maintaining the consecutive alliance, bringing them from 49 to 51). Even IF they managed to get their ponits doubled EVERY SINGLE DAY it would only be on that last day that they would cross the threshold, assuming both they and random lived all the way to that point, without the scum team ever activating their consecutive alliance punishing event, or the gems activating their mass commute...not to mention the fact that I believe it's impossible to lynch scum over and over again and still keep stress at +3, which means the points WOULDN'T be doubled for the majority of those days.
Basically, it's a joke win condition, like the Boobies Reward Card from Space Dandy 2. It's not going to occur in a game, unless somehow scum fail all their kills, or town fail to lynch over and over again...and by over and over again I mean something like 90% of the time there needs to be no deaths in a given day.
A50's role: He claimed to be the Cool Kid Buck Dewey. He had the Joy Ride event that allowed him to bring 4 people of his choice into a special alliance for the day. At +2 stress, his alliance members could use their abilities as though it were the Season Finale, and on the actual Season Finale, their abilities could not fail. In addition, he had a 1 shot watcher variant that refilled on season finales. It allowed him to target a player and know if they performed an action on someone else, and whether that action was harmful to the target. At +2 stress and during season finales, the power allowed him to learn exactly who they targeted, and what the exact action was.
Grapes role: He claimed to be Lapis Lazuli. His allies do not get alliance benefits from allying with him, and he called himself "the death bubbler", but didn't elaborate. He also claimed the event that removes someone else. I don't recall if Grapes ever claimed anything else.
In post 12420, Reasonably Rational wrote:It's not going to occur in a game, unless somehow scum fail all their kills, or town fail to lynch over and over again...and by over and over again I mean something like 90% of the time there needs to be no deaths in a given day.
Pray tell, who, exactly, has been reminding me of all the various methods of kill prevention we have in the game especially from the gems?
In post 12420, Reasonably Rational wrote:It's not going to occur in a game, unless somehow scum fail all their kills, or town fail to lynch over and over again...and by over and over again I mean something like 90% of the time there needs to be no deaths in a given day.
Pray tell, who, exactly, has been reminding me of all the various methods of kill prevention we have in the game especially from the gems?
I haven't cared about that. I've cared about the sheer number of conftowns.
Also, it's irrelevant. Notice how I said 90% of the time there needs to be no deaths PERIOD. That means no lynch, and no kill, just a long sequence of days where random allies with the same person and they vote together over and over again, in addition to the 12 day progression to lylo. Every kill, whether lynch or nk, essentially decreases the probable pearl points a single slot could gain by 1.5. Even if we assumed scum lynches only occurred on high stress/season finale days(which is being INCREDIBLY GENEROUS, given that every time stress was high people have taken the opportunity to trigger events), that still only brings them up from 51 points to 87, thus requiring an additional 10 deaths to be missed, so realistically this won con could only occur on day 17, after 10 failed nks/no lynches.
So yeah. Not something that was going to occur, especially when you consider the fact that we're aware of what, 3 extra kills that flipped non-scum slots had access to(fuzzy vig, fuzzys event, xkfyus event) at a minimum, plus extra vigs over time, PLUS 3 kills from scum factional events, AND a kill from DGBs event.
This game having LESS deaths/day on average than most games wasn't going to happen, and without that happening, to a significant degree, the pearl point victory was not going to come into play.
I get your point, or at least how you're trying to utilize this information to help you determine if single scum is more or less likely than dual scum, but it's not useful data to work off of.
Oh shit. And I just noticed the ability specifies that points can't be gained on no lynch days. That means it's 10 out of 12 expected nks that would need to fail, when the scum team had two strong men AND an additional method of gaining strongman shots, for the game to go on long enough for someone to attain the pearl points goal.
