Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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Well, this game isn't moving very fast is it?
Caught up and my initial impressions are.
Lil Uzi Vert, -Grey-, havingfitz,Hawk,Alisae, ConManMick, Empking,SnarkySnowman,Antihuman, mozamis,
A lot of it is based off of gut, and personal tells.
There are several players whose positioning I can thoroughly justify. I suppose I'll work from there then recheck my gut reads to see if it all still adds up.
I'll have to get as much as I can done rn b/c tomorrow is gonna be hecka busy for me.-
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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THe apathy I feel in this game is stifling
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Seeing that less then two pages were generated in a two day period, since this day started. That left a bad taste in my mouth.In post 817, Empking wrote:I as prodded within pretty much 24 hours of the flip when my internet was down. I'm not apathetic.
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I think I'll start will my town reads first. They are easier to explain, and I'm more inclined to believe my town reads here then my scum reads.
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Can you give a specific date?-Grey- wrote:I'll focus more on this game in the not too distant future.
I have a lot going on right this second.
I'd prob like to talk with you when I get the chance.-
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LUV
shamefully I have to admit that this read has connection with meta. In a precious game Scum!LUV played very nervously, trying to stay out of the lime light. He spent more time writing lengthy catch up posts then actually interacting with anybody. This game he has been the polar opposite, clearly making stances, accusations, keeping himself in regular communication with others. He even seems completely at home with himself here, not nearly as guarded as my pervious experience with him.
My last game with him was... only a little over a month ago. I don't think that LUV could grow that much as a scum player in that time. If LUV were scum here I'd be floored.
If I need to pull up a post by post comparison to show the major playsytle differences then I will.
-Grey-
Going back to the start of game, the level at which he shut down Alisae's arguments, and the confidence that he had in his initial push felt genuine and off the cuff. In a sense that he genuinely thought that he caught scum.
I also thought his conversation with boring was incredibly town like. He want very interrogative, and discerning in his questioning her thought processes. I see no reason for scum to go out of their way to aggressively interact with a town read to get their head more into the game. Its more likely that Mafia!Grey would just let boring believe whatever, and focus in on his scum reads. Really, being aggesive towards somebody while not scum reading them is much likely to come town.
I also don't see the scum motivation for fake hammering in the situation he did. In fact I'd say that Blue blood would have been lynched several pages earlier then he had if Grey didn't fake hammer. Grey really didn't have a reason to extend the day as scum, nor would giving Blue blood an opportunity to defend himself make a lot of sense as a scum ploy. Its not like riding BlueBlood would have had major consequences considering what a wet blanket BBT was being.-
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I'm sleep deprived but decided to stop in and say hello anyway
I like to explain all my reads when I can, and I decided to start where I feel strongest.In post 829, Alisae wrote:Actually Grendal, why are you explaining why you're townreading people?
What's the prob bob?
I haven't exactly finished explaining things. Only dropped a reads list, and expounded on some trs.Hawk wrote:@Fitz what do you think of Grendel's catchup?
@Grendel while I would like to hear more about why you are Town leaning people would you do me a favor and Explain why you dislike Anti?
Also, Patience is a virtue.
I'm guessing your still positive Antihume is town? ANy new reasons, or are they the same ones you had when you were walling?
Why are you so good for town Moz, and AH?Alisae wrote:also
UNVOTE:
Townbloc this game is probably Mick, Moz, Grey, AH, Fitz, Uzi.-
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Oh, I'm not voting anybody currently
This looks like a fun vote
VOTE: Snowman
Pre edit- @Grey
My currents reads haven't changed much, most noticeably mozamis is null-scum now instead of primary scum read.In post 812, Grendel wrote:Well, this game isn't moving very fast is it?
Caught up and my initial impressions are.
Lil Uzi Vert, -Grey-, havingfitz,Hawk,Alisae, ConManMick, Empking,SnarkySnowman,Antihuman, mozamis,
A lot of it is based off of gut, and personal tells.
There are several players whose positioning I can thoroughly justify. I suppose I'll work from there then recheck my gut reads to see if it all still adds up.
I'll have to get as much as I can done rn b/c tomorrow is gonna be hecka busy for me.
I need to keep going down the roster before I make an 'official' list-
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I'm still wary of Alisae in some facets. Enough so that I'm reluctant about introducing him into my town reads.In post 887, -Grey- wrote:I was mostly wondering what your recent analysis of Alisae did for your read on him.
Not much, I presume.
I don't get why he has so many votes. The wagon on him feels anti-town as fuck.
I will say that there is definitely a divergence between him, and those below him in my reads.
I certainly wouldn't vote for him today.-
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Grendel Mafia Scum
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Wagon composition.Alisae wrote:Why Snowman over Moz then?
I'd rather be on a wagon started by you, and supported by -Grey-, then the wagon with one scummy snow flake, and a null!Mick.
[ConManMick wrote:
With regards to lynching BBT, you'll see I was pushing him to actually do something up until this:
quote="In post 714, BlueBloodedToffee"]It's funny how Moz 180d on me. Scum.
CMM, I'm done with this game. I'm now lynch bait - if I don't get lynched now I 100% get lynched in another Day or Two and I'm not putting energy into a game where I can already see what is going to happen.[/quote]
At this point, there's no interest from him to actually continue playing, and he's right, he'd just be lynch bait, so his slot had become, essentially, negative utility and thus I was no longer opposed to lynching this. Essentially, leaving BBT in the game would be obstructing town so I got on the wagon.[/quote]
Maybe its a personality thing. There have been times where some of my strongest trs were utterly complacent at the prospect of being lynched. I still hard defended them, and in most instances that I actually save them they quit their defeatist attitude the next day. I don't know Blue blood well enough to know if he truly would have kept being useless out of spite. If so then that's pretty sad.
Spoiler:
These are nice and all, but they didn't convince anyone. And unless I missed it you didn't really step beyond saying that you think BBT was town, or that Blood blue needs to do more. That kind of thing doesn't exactly unravel wagons. Usually it takes some 1v1 with the leaders rallying the lynch.
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tbh I hate it when people don't explain their reads. Most ppl who don't are less transparent for me and therefore harder to sort.In post 915, Alisae wrote:What wierds me out is that he feels like he needed to explain said reads.
Not to mention I need to see him start scumhunting cuz he's hiding behind me and you to lynch scum.
I planed on scum hunting once I got a better look at everybody.
Why does weird=scum?-
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@Alisae
I actaully thought youIn post 853, Alisae wrote:I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.were a masontrying to wifom here.
You're saying that this was where you were trying to tell Grey that you weren't a mason?
It wouldn't surprise me if he skipped over it tbh. If he thought you were a mason then he was probably panicking to save you skin, and not paying much attention to what you were saying.
If he were scum Grey why would he bother defending you at all when he could just stand by and whach you get lynched?
I'm inclined to think that Grey felt legitimate;ly duped once he saw that you weren't a mason and is back tracking away from you reflexively for it.In post 925, -Grey- wrote:Oh?
Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.
All in one fell swoop.
VOTE: Alisae
Like town feeling betrayed.
Pre edit
You guys need to make up. I think you both town.-
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THis painful to watch because it reminds me of almost all my games with GammaEmerald. Where I inevitably think that, "Town!Gamma knows better then to do x, y, and z". Because for a long time I had unrealistic expectations for what Gamma could and couldn't perceive about me, and the game state. Because I thought I knew more about him then he knew about me, and this in assurance that wasn't actually _real_ made me stretch to find evidence that wasn't there!
THis looks like the same thing here! The two of you think that due to previous games you know what each other is thinking/doing, but the premise, assumptions, you both are making about each other are dictating other wise. As I can see many realistic scenarios were you are both town rn, but you both simply won't see eye to eye!-
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You mean his reaction teast, plus all the time he referenced masons?In post 938, -Grey- wrote:
Seriously?In post 937, Grendel wrote:You guys need to make up. I think you both town.
How can you VT read his d1?
I don't think its good play by an means, but I don't think that I understand how he as Scum!Aliase is more likely to do that then town. AS it does not represent good preservation. Right now I'm thinking, "Why would Aliase box himself in so prematurely?"
I don't think that he'd view outing a mason as worth it, nor do I think he'd assume that all would think he is too brazen to be scum.
Pre-edit
I recognize that is what you're saying, but between the lines I'm seeing:-Grey- wrote:Um, my read isn't based off meta.
It's based off "that shit don't make sense coming from a VT""that shit don't make sense coming from a VT!Alisae"-
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@Alisae, LUV, other ppl town reading Mozamis
Why are you town reading Moz?
Is Grey just _shockingly_ less observant as mafia then he is as town? Do you really think that Town!Grey is more likely to pick up on things you're saying then Scum!Grey?Alisae wrote: Here is why: Grey attempts to buddy the "mason", makes no attempt to figure out what he missed, sheeps the "mason", and then 180s the "mason"
Seriously, if Grey was town he would have actually payed attention to when I said I wasn't a mason.
I don't see any town motivation behind his actions.
Imo, most players are as observant as one alignment as another. I'm pretty sure you're just seeing what you want to see and not what's there.-
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Alisae, why aren't you working with me here?
I asked you to explain your read on Moz, but you're just homing in on Grey.
I'm telling you that your case on him is bad, and that you should not waste time on this.
@Grey
I don't nesserly understand why he'd do that as either alignment. He looked liked he was too excited and off is rear.-Grey- wrote:
Dude, it's not even that.In post 944, Grendel wrote:Is Grey just _shockingly_ less observant as mafia then he is as town? Do you really think that Town!Grey is more likely to pick up on things you're saying then Scum!Grey?
Imo, most players are as observant as one alignment as another. I'm pretty sure you're just seeing what you want to see and not what's there.
I DID read the post Ali pointed out, and we BOTH stated my take on that post.
He's fabricating his read on a lie about what I was doing.
Why would town make that kind of assumption instead of ask my opinion of the post before going all ham?
I see now, you did read it, but interpreted it differently.In post 936, -Grey- wrote:
A Mason could easily say this to fish for Scum to vote them because they know they'll never actually be lynched.In post 853, Alisae wrote:I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.
Fucking duh.
Quit assuming that I'm not reading simply because you don't know my thoughts.
Why would scum!Alisae assume what you are going to do/act where as town!Alisae wouldn't, or not to this extent?
I don't find Alisae's actions very typical for scum these last few pages. By outing that he is not infact a mason he would lost you as a shield. Wouldn't be able to incriminate you tomorrow in the event he was lynched. Plus by directly fighting you he would be willfully increasing your scum read vs playing it off, and or deflecting. All while being dangerously close to being lynched.-
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Outside of my read for you specifically what do you feel is wrong with my reads?In post 948, mozamis wrote:grendel prob town
wrong, but prob town. faking that sort of shit as scum is hard.
Are the reads you've been hold apply retroactively?
Ei, same reads as last time.
Insightful... :/Alisae wrote:also TRing Moz cuz I like their tone.
Oh yeah, he would want to get on your good side if you thought you were a mason. Scratch that question.Alisae wrote:Oh you asked me things. Didn't see it cuz #walls.
A. It was moreso I was confirming about lieing about being a mason.In post 937, Grendel wrote:You're saying that this was where you were trying to tell Grey that you weren't a mason?
It wouldn't surprise me if he skipped over it tbh. If he thought you were a mason then he was probably panicking to save you skin, and not paying much attention to what you were saying.
If he were scum Grey why would he bother defending you at all when he could just stand by and whach you get lynched?
B. Cuz he thought I was a mason.-
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You and Mick may be right about BBT.In post 947, Empking wrote:
Grendel: Its mainly conincidince - as my posting over the last days testifies - and wrt BBT he self-imploded in a really ugly way as soon as he was wagoned, and I was only willing to sheep based on the logic-using rather than a big town-read.
I just had previous experiences where players that had "given up" were actually still salvageable. But I wasn't taking into consideration the meta of this site, and BBt himself.-
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@Alisae
Didn't you yourself say that you're used to -Grey- scum reading you?
Why can't this come from angry town that thinks you tricked him into hard defending you?In post 925, -Grey- wrote:Oh?
Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.
All in one fell swoop.
VOTE: Alisae-
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I was distinctly getting a "how dare you", plus a hint of smug, "I should've known" from that post lol.In post 959, Alisae wrote:They can't be town if they're scum
in all seriousness, that is completely bullshit if you're getting an angry tone from that post. I do not see anything in that posts that indicates as angry lmao.
I'm sorry, but your scum reading based off a surface level observation.-Grey- wrote:
Why would town push a case on bad assumptions instead of seeking clarity on questionable points?In post 953, Grendel wrote:Why would scum!Alisae assume what you are going to do/act where as town!Alisae wouldn't, or not to this extent?
Town do stupid things, as do mafia.
In this instance I'm not seeing scum motivation where he voted you when he did. Unless he wanted to condemn himself.-
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Thanks for the general endorsement with no commentary on my alignment.In post 946, Hawk wrote:I like a lot of Grendel's reads and explanations. While I don't think he's really scumhunting yet he's at least being more contributiversatile than some other players.
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I like ff tactics too man! Its a classic tactical rpg!
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I'm good with a Moz vote, but first I'd like to interact more with that slot.
I also might need to talk more with you too, b/c you've given me an itch I can't scratch.
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Grey doesn't seem like an ALL CAPS poster when he his mad. How is it a reach?Alisae wrote:
And I'm not. That's one hell of a reach there mister.In post 964, Grendel wrote:I was distinctly getting a "how dare you", plus a hint of smug, "I should've known" from that post lol.
New townbloc: Fitz, Uzi, Moz, Snowman, Empking, Hawk, AH
Scumbloc: Mick, Grey, Grendel.-
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I could run a list off of players that post in lots of caps to show their emotions.In post 971, Alisae wrote:
Where the fuck do you see all caps mister?In post 970, Grendel wrote:Grey doesn't seem like an ALL CAPS poster when he his mad. How is it a reach?
You _can't_ be saying that ppl don't do that. RIght?-
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I said that Grey doesn't seem like he conveys anger through all caps, and there are no caps in the post in question.In post 974, Alisae wrote:
No, where do you see caps in Grey's post?In post 973, Grendel wrote:
I could run a list off of players that post in lots of caps to show their emotions.In post 971, Alisae wrote:
Where the fuck do you see all caps mister?In post 970, Grendel wrote:Grey doesn't seem like an ALL CAPS poster when he his mad. How is it a reach?
You _can't_ be saying that ppl don't do that. RIght?
How am I saying that he was posting in caps there by any facet?-
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@ Grey
So you thought that Alisae was a mason since D1 correct?
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Okay soAlisae wrote:Oh I get what you are saying then.
Sorry, you confused me.
What makes you think hes conveying anger then?
The red portion looked like Grey had a "how dare you" moment, and the Green looked like a smug, "I should have known".In post 925, -Grey- wrote:Oh?
Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.
All in one fell swoop.
VOTE: Alisae-
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I open most the games I sub into with wall posts. So while there are parallels to the newbie game where I was scum, you'd find all the same parallels in the games I subbed into as town.In post 982, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Talk to me a bit more about your read on Grendal. I've seen him play like this as scum but that was way back. My first Newbie I believe where I was really bad at the game.
Not to mention that I took as long as possible to get caught up vs here where I got caught up in like two days.
I'm not sure metaing somebody based off of one game is a good idea for a strong read.Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Moz is town because of his tone, his reads, and just how he's been playing. Not a hint of malice or wrongful intentions in his tone and his reads are not only clear to follow as well as logical, they're explained in a very similar fashion in another game I was in with him where he was town. A lot of the questions he's asked don't feel like busywork ones and I doubt scum!Moz would go back and analyze what was essentially a policy lynch wagon just to push Fitz.In post 944, Grendel wrote:@Alisae, LUV, other ppl town reading Mozamis
Why are you town reading Moz?
Is Grey just _shockingly_ less observant as mafia then he is as town? Do you really think that Town!Grey is more likely to pick up on things you're saying then Scum!Grey?Alisae wrote: Here is why: Grey attempts to buddy the "mason", makes no attempt to figure out what he missed, sheeps the "mason", and then 180s the "mason"
Seriously, if Grey was town he would have actually payed attention to when I said I wasn't a mason.
I don't see any town motivation behind his actions.
Imo, most players are as observant as one alignment as another. I'm pretty sure you're just seeing what you want to see and not what's there.
Which questions do you think are _that_ good that Moz posed?
I don't understand why Moz wouldn't push Fritz over a policy wagon. It just seems like something Moz could do as ethier, and I don't understand as to why that's Ai for you. Can you explain?-
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Why is everybody misspelling my name?
Its "Grendel", really not that hard.
@Moz That was the conclusion that most those on the wagon decided it was. I can't say I disagree, b/c BBT looked pretty town going down. Just being useless town.
I don't think you answered this yet:
In post 956, Grendel wrote:
Outside of my read for you specifically what do you feel is wrong with my reads?In post 948, mozamis wrote:grendel prob town
wrong, but prob town. faking that sort of shit as scum is hard.
Are the reads you've been hold apply retroactively?
Ei, same reads as last time.-
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If you sincerely believe that there is scum between Grey/ Alisae... its Alisae.
Consider this. Yesterday Grey got his town read on Alisae because he thought Ali was a mason. That means that in a scum!Grey universe he would have chose tonotkill his top mason suspect last night. From my pov Grey simply can't be mafia, or if he is then he is illogical beyond anything I could have expected.
I personally am still open to the idea of it being TvsT, though not to the extent that I thought it was several pages ago.-
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I wanted to know what your views on my other reads were. I specifically said to not bother reverbing my read on yourself, as I didn't expect anything meanful from it.:/In post 994, mozamis wrote:@ gren - you whacked me on your scum list or null scum list, whatever, so obviously i didnt like that.
Are you not reading my posts?-
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Grendel
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I should have written it down in my notes, b/c I don't remember what I wanted to ask you.
uhh.-
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Oh, thank you the compliment! tbh I'm really just an average player tho.In post 1936, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:In post 1929, Grendel wrote:@Giga
Funnily enough I have always wanted to spectate a game or two of yours, but never got around to it.
I think it was your name in all honesty, "Gigabyte Troubadour" looks like the name of a interesting player.In post 1930, -Grey- wrote:She's awesome.In post 1931, Aristophanes wrote:I absolutely agree!
aaaaahh!! ty guys <3
grendel i feel the same way about you actually
seriously getting nk'd here is a rly good sign about your skill imo
although now that i mention it i'm surprised math didnt game your kill to frame me because of your gutscumread of my slot
On mafiascum I think the only times I've been night killed in were due to me looking town, and wasn't due to my reads. With the exception of being a claimed power role.
idk how I would have reacted to you this game as a player. -Grey- had gained my trust, but as an outside viewer your entrance looked OB!town.I guess we'll never know!-
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I was a little wary of you when you made this post
Mainly b/c "idgaf" players can make mafia unfun for me. But you turned out to be a pretty cool dude.In post 257, -Grey- wrote:
He knows that I'm a very easy person to run up because I play in a very idgaf manner, and I think he tried to exploit that.
Anyway, you're welcome!
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