Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[BBmolla]

my role was vanillaized anyway why wouldn't I claim, I don't understand that

[Heartless]

ok mastin, let's play a game

3-4 scum

1 scum 2-shot vanillaizer
1 scum redirecting joat/rolestop
???????

13-14 town

1 2-shot vig
3 VT
???????

you're reviewing this setup. in general terms, what has to go into the ?????? to make this balanced?

[mastina]

if I was scum the most beneficial thing to claim today would have been VT

Yeah bullshit.

Can't exactly claim to be vanillaized ad a VT, now, can you?

And you can't exactly lie about your powers for risk of those powers actually being in the game in the hands of an actual town player, now, can you?

The only move was to claim the original role, and work off of the assumption that the claim of being vanillaized would raise you to conftown status. (Which it almost did.)

[mastina]

Mastin, you think Titus is one of the bigger personalities in this game. What do you think of her being so low key?

I don't see any low-keyness from her? She's in the game. Doing the same stuff she always does. At about the same frequency as normal. And providing around what I would expect of her. What's there to see?

[Nero Cain]

Playing with fucking PINE. Of all people.
Choose to bus him.

You can go fuck yourself.

Its not like I'll convince you that you are scum or anything but Pine had a role that publicly outted him as using an anti-town ability. As soon as he used it he was going to be under intense pressure. I think its very very very likely that you'd bus him to salvage some usefulness out of his sacrifice.

[mastina]

I mean idk it's all hypothetical, my play is much more calculated as scum and you've seen that mastin. as town I just kind of fumble

Yes I have seen your play be calculated as scum and yes I have seen you fumble as town.

And that's the thing.

I don't see any evidence whatsoever of you fumbling this game.

I see calculated play from you every step of the way this game.

[Nero Cain]

Titus is doing next to fucking nothing.

[mastina]

Thing is, if Molla doesn't claim its putting a huge amount of pressure on him.

[citation needed]

[Infinity 324]

If it's such an obvious scum role, WHY THE FUCK would molla claim it AFTER being vanillaized?

"If it's such an obvious scum ability, why the FUCK would Pine use it?"

...

...Yeah. I rest my case.

Molla literally could've claimed any role he wanted. Any role. That he claimed the particular role he claimed is completely NAI.

[Infinity 324]

I mean, I assume scum got fakeclaims. If you have a particular reason to believe they don't, then you may have a point.

[Nero Cain]

Dear RK,

Please stop being skrubs and investigative/kill Mastina and Titus.

[Heartless]

Can't exactly claim to be vanillaized ad a VT, now, can you?

it strips the special character ability

which i'm p certain everyone has at this point

[Infinity 324]

I think mastin may just be having ego issues after successfully catching pine. It's possible she's just scum though.

[Aj The Epic]

No, I doubt that. At least, I'd put my eggs elsewhere right now.

[Infinity 324]

Pine would've still killed Nacho no matter what.

Remind me why?

[mastina]

ok mastin, let's play a game
3-4 scum
1 scum 2-shot vanillaizer
1 scum redirecting joat/rolestop
???????

13-14 town
1 2-shot vig
3 VT
???????
you're reviewing this setup. in general terms, what has to go into the ?????? to make this balanced?

Oh, I dunno.
How about every player this game having a role, even the VTs?
How about a Rogue Crew mechanic which has some sort of power in it and which at minimum acts as a neighborhood?
How about Drunken Piper's softclaimed role we haven't had a hardclaim of?
How about any number of unflipped PRs who have the common fucking sense to not be claiming on D3 with one scum dead yesterday?

This shit's not rocket science. (There, you have the edge on me. )
This is just common sense. We know one flipped role.
We know one softclaimed role.
We know one mechanical boost in play.
We know every VT has a power.
We don't know what other power roles are in play.

And on D3, that's a VERY GOOD THING to be said.

Now, I can't speculate on what the unflipped/claimed roles are and even if I could, I shouldn't.

But what I CAN do is tell you off of KNOWN ROLES why BBMolla's role is a scum role.
We have the rogue crew with a kill ability.
We have a 2-shot vigilante.
Deflect? The town killer commits suicide, giving the scum a free kill on a player who was probably conftown.
Redirect? The town killer ends up killing a player scum want dead--sure, the town killer knows they were probably redirected, but it's still giving the scum a second kill.
Rolestop? Puts a stop to the kill, saving the life of a scumbuddy.
Alternatively, the rolestop stops, saaaaaaaaaaaay, Drunken Piper's role from getting a guilty in the first place! The deflect/redirect similarly allow the investigation to fail, or depending on Firebringer's wording (if Firebringer uses "Your target" rather than "Playername"), provide a false innocent/guilty.

Literally every one of those abilities, off of JUST THE KNOWN POWER IN THE GAME, is useful for the scum.

In contrast, what does the role offer for town?
Causing Pine to vanillaize themselves? Causing Pine to vanillaize a player BBMolla specified? A one-shot doctor protection?

It's a scum role.

Through-and-through. Simple. as. that.

[Heartless]

How about Drunken Piper's softclaimed role we haven't had a hardclaim of?

he's semi-hard a tracker/follower

[mastina]

Pine had a role that publicly outted him as using an anti-town ability. As soon as he used it he was going to be under intense pressure. I think its very very very likely that you'd bus him to salvage some usefulness out of his sacrifice.

Again. Chronology. I was going after Pine D1.
The ability was used N1.
The ability would not have been used N1 if there were scum on the crew--there would be no need to have scum infiltrate the crew if scum were already on it.
There was no way of knowing prior to N1 that there were no scum on the crew.
As a result, there is no way of knowing prior to N1 that Pine would use the ability.
As a result, there is no incentive for me to go after Pine...except. You know. That I am town and KNEW HE WAS SCUM.

Stop fucking doubting my legitimacy and realize I know what the fuck I'm talking about here in regards to Pine, and now BBMolla. These are players that I KNOW. So I KNOW they are scum.

[Infinity 324]

The roleclaim itself, sure, not for towncred.

Then why'd he do it lol

He could've claimed fucking 6-shot desperado 3-shot weak rolecop if he wanted to.

[Heartless]

ok well you managed to miss the point of the thought exercise anyway

i fucking give up

[mastina]

Titus is doing next to fucking nothing.

I'd argue Titus has done more than you. (And yes by proxy I realize that's saying Titus has done more than me. Statement stands.)

So no.

[Nero Cain]

Titus has done more than me. lawl. She's done nothing but tunnel infinity the whole game and then delayed OMGUS me.

[Heartless]

In contrast, what does the role offer for town?

rolestop - functionality of a doc
redirect - redirect scum kill to scumread
deflect - triggered bomb

[Aj The Epic]

Quick question, Mastina. By your logic, everyone in the D1 rogue crew was town, right?

Also I think one reason you can claim Molla's role as scum pretending town is it's negative utility for town or positive utility for scum, just depending on who holds it. It doesn't really shake up the grand scheme setup spec style because of that. If I were to have a positive utility role that overlapped Molla's role, would his be more likely to be scum?

[Infinity 324]

And you can't exactly lie about your powers for risk of those powers actually being in the game in the hands of an actual town player, now, can you?

Fakeclaims. They probably exist.