Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[PeregrineV]

Because it's easiest to find scummy things from people you know are scum, and that makes it look like you're scumhunting. Also it might stand out if you just ignore someone.

Pine ignored Mastin.

Scum can't scumhunt there own team too hard, because then they either have to full on bus, or back off and flip thier read on them. That kind of move starts to look obvious.

[Infinity 324]

But fine, suspect me all you want if mastin/titus flips scum. But

after they flip scum

. Not before. Doing it before is pre-flip association and is very arrogant.

[Nero Cain]

I think scum are plenty capable of doing so. Infact you keep going on about how you've played with Titus scum. She hard defends/town reads her buddies all the time.

[ɀefiend]

Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.

It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

I never said your mastin read flipped. I said you're setting up to flip it.

This reaction is beyond fake.

Attempting to solve the game and sort my reads is not a setup of anything.

VOTE: infinity

Literally everything you've said has been sh@allow shading or blatant invention about my gameplay.

[ɀefiend]

Gotta go to class but hopefully this scumfuck is lynched before I get back. I can't even.

[Nero Cain]

But after they flip scum. Not before.

I DON'T SUSPECT YOU NOW AND I NEVER HAVE YOU FUCKING MORON.

Your holier than thou attitude is just pissing me the fuck off.

[PeregrineV]

Because his wagon grew quickly, died slowly, and was not CW'ed for forever and a day. Plus his thoughts were all over the place and seemed to be organic. (need to iso for specifics and verification on that second part)

would like to see specific posts.

This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic

[Infinity 324]

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

Mastin was lazy/busy, pine was avoiding her. I think that explains it

Why would Pine avoid her when he could fight her to push a mislynch on her?

Lazy/Busy mastin with 4th most posts in the game?

Who else is Mastin treating the exact same way?

-mastin just wasn't mislynchable at the time

-mastin was posting tons of catchup one-liners, so yes.

-...idk

[PeregrineV]

:sigh:

[Aj The Epic]

Treating Mastin the same way as pine or infinity, peregrine?

[PeregrineV]

I'm amazed that everyone hasn't auto-sheeped Mastina.

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics

This is pretty cruddy, for obvious reasons

Thinker - you asked for a case on infinity. But what do

you think

about him?

[Infinity 324]

But after they flip scum. Not before.

I DON'T SUSPECT YOU NOW AND I NEVER HAVE YOU FUCKING MORON.

Your holier than thou attitude is just pissing me the fuck off.

I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.

[Nero Cain]

Like I'm just saying that if/when Titus and/or Mastin flip scum I might suspect Infinity as being a scum buddy. Like I don't know if he's just kinda upset that I'm not bowing at his knees and telling him how good he is or what but IMM its the correct play to think that Infinity could be a scum buddy with Titus and its not a hard concept to grasp so I dunno why he's struggling with it.

[Nero Cain]

In other news, lets flip scum Titus.

[Infinity 324]

This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic

Yes, that one

[Nero Cain]

I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.

fair enough. I'm sorry too. I can be...zealous in my efforts. So lets rap about your Titus and Mastin town reads.

[Infinity 324]

I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.

fair enough. I'm sorry too. I can be...zealous in my efforts. So lets rap about your Titus and Mastin town reads.

Ok, but tomorrow. I'm tired as shit.

[PeregrineV]

Treating Mastin the same way as pine or infinity, peregrine?

Mastin has the same read on Cake- as Pine. Said it in practically every post I read. Had no interaction with him. Cake was also OK with it.

Spoiler: Whay Cake is scum- by Mastina (day1 only, expires after that)

@ Mastina I don't buy the Cakez wagon as a righteous town wagon at all and I have no clue how you've arrived at that interpretation.

Well SirCakez is scum, so there's that. There maaaaaaaaaaaaaaay be bussing involved in the SirCakez wagon (would have to double-check who the voters there are), but that doesn't change the fact that he's scum. Lynching scum is lynching scum.

Which, speaking of, is why I am voting Pine.

could you do me a solid and go over cakez?

Given that, one, there is a wagon on SirCakez, and two, SirCakez is not my current vote?

...No. I'll give you something on someone who is scum and won't be lynched without me giving you said something, but if they're just gonna get lynched without me needing to, I'm not gonna spend my time there. It's a waste of effort.

@ Mastina I don't buy the Cakez wagon as a righteous town wagon at all and I have no clue how you've arrived at that interpretation.

Well SirCakez is scum, so there's that. There maaaaaaaaaaaaaaay be bussing involved in the SirCakez wagon (would have to double-check who the voters there are), but that doesn't change the fact that he's scum. Lynching scum is lynching scum. Which, speaking of, is why I am voting Pine.

????

What's there to not get? I don't care about the wagon composition on SirCakez (though looking at Desperado's list of the names, there's really none that are incredibly objectionable--the worst is LUV and even that's possibly from town), because SirCakez is scum. It doesn't matter if his whole team were bussing him. It doesn't change the fact that he's scum.

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

SirCakez? I can lynch him any day. Literally, any day. As long as I'm alive. And even if I'm not alive, he could probably get lynched because there's enough support for his wagon that even postmortem my words would be advocating for his death.

Pine? Nah, if he escapes, short of a cop guilty on him, he'll wiggle out of whatever we try to throw at him especially after I'm the N1 nightkill.

So while I'll vote SirCakez if necessary, as far as I'm concerned, right now...it isn't necessary.

Let me word it to you this way:
I go where I feel I am needed.

I am needed on Pine.
I am not needed on SirCakez.

If it turns out that I can't lynch Pine, and it turns out that I am needed on SirCakez, I will switch to him.
But otherwise, I'd prefer to go on Pine, if for nothing else to make the statement that, yes. Pine is scum.

It's not that hard a concept to grasp.

Thinker who is scum?

Apparently I am by virtue of Thinker most definitely surely actually truly being town. Clearly.

Thinker's posting continues to underwhelm. That meta defense was awful.

Yes, exactly my point.
I'm not sure how more obvious my sarcasm could've been in that post, and the fact that you're pretending to have not known it was sarcasm is one of the reasons you're scum.

@ Cakez wagon: who else will you guys lynch? It's stagnating and I don't see anyone trying to push it forward.

Aside from Pine-and-Gin, my current vote?

I'd vote The Thinker.
I've laid out my reasons for why Molla is scum.

I'm pretty sure that's our scumteam: SirCakez, Pine, The Thinker, and Molla, so I'd prefer not to vote outside of there.
MASSIVELY prefer not to vote outside of there.
Like, you could maybe talk me into spite-voting a more nullish read like LUV, but I'd vote there fully expecting a town flip rather than a scum one.

If you want to lynch scum, lynch Pine.
Else, lynch Cakez.
Else, Molla.
Else, TheThinker.

Infinity
Drunken Piper
Nacho
Aeronaut
AJ the Epic
TWIE

Heartless
Desperado
Titus
Klingoncelt

Nero
LUV

The Thinker
Molla
SirCakez
Pine

Thereabouts. Molla, SirCakez, and TheThinker are all pretty equal; LUV and Nero keep trading places; the lines in the town list are a bit arbitrary and I could place dividers between Drunken Piper-Nacho, Nacho-Aeronaut, Aeronaut-AJ, Heartless-Desperado, Desperado-Titus, and Titus-Klingoncelt; I cold remove the divider between Heartless and TWIE; I could keep the dividers exactly as they are and switch around almost any of the names in most sections; it's a really, really loose approximation.

{Nero Cain, Desperado, Heartless}
{Drunken Piper, Aeronaut, Titus, SirCakez, Nachomamma8, Aj the Epic}
Null: {Pine, TheWayItEnds}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla, Lil uzi vert, mastina, The Thinker}

You realize you share half of my scumreads, right? (Molla, Thinker.) And have a third of my scumreads in your null pile (Pine), while having one of MY nulls in your scum pile (LUV)?

And for that matter, aside from SirCakez and maybe Aeronaut, your townreads are literally identical to mine?

This is what I was talking about.
You have good reads. You and I are thinking many of the same things.
Yet you and I don't seem to have the capability to actually work together.

I don't know how to fix that.

I mean there was a 5 man wagon on SC. She came in and was all like "lets vote Pine!" Essentially all wagons do start out as vanity wagons. She's saying that her vote on Pine was

NOT

a vanity vote since she's now being sheeped and I'm just not the biggest fan of the explanation.

Well it wasn't.

I voted Pine expected to be followed.

Do you, realistically speaking, expect to be followed with your vote on me?

Because I did feel like I'd be followed when voting Pine. I figured I might need to provide some basis for it to justify to vote. So when people asked, I gave it. And my answers were apparently satisfactory enough where people started voting Pine after I did. Meaning my vote wasn't vane. It was with purpose: lynching Pine, and lynching Pine first.

I already explained this to you before.

If the Pine wagon didn't take off, I'd have pushed it harder. Given more reasons. Given stronger basis. And tried to get it to go through.
If that still failed (it didn't), if after all of that, nobody would vote Pine? I'd leave it there for as long as possible AS vanity, as a statement, but not to the detriment of the town. If SirCakez as scum was lynched without me, so be it. I feel no need for towncred. I have him as a scumread, so it doesn't mean I need to vote him when everyone else was. If SirCakez as scum looked like he was going to live, then if there were no other wagons on scum, I would intervene. I would hop right back onto SirCakez and drive that wagon through, because lynching scum > lynching town.

Yet that never became necessary, because Pine became a wagon. And as a result? Pine lynch > SirCakez lynch > other scum lynch > town lynch. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Not all scum lynches are created equal. Some hold priority over others. Lynching Pine is a top priority. Failing that, lynching the largest wagon on scum. (Which at the time was SirCakez, but now is TheThinker.) Don't allow town to be lynched. Push for the scum to be lynched. If a lesser scum is lynched without me on it, so be it. If a lesser scum needs me to be there, I will go there, otherwise I won't. I'll stay on the greater scum. Especially since lynching the greater scum is a realistic possibility. Lynching Pine is an obtainable goal...so why would I settle for SirCakez? Just because he's also scum? Just because I'd want towncred for being on the lynch of scum? Fuck no. If you feel the need to be on the lynch wagon of every scum player, you're playing the game for the wrong reasons. Being accurate, and being where you are needed most, are more important skills to have. And I'm needed most on the Pine wagon.

It's really that simple.

Mastin is still probably scum, she definitely needs to explain why she townreads klingon.

Experience.
Wait a couple of weeks and I'll probably be able to tell you more about it. If you want me to talk now, I have to keep it vague and generic and unspecific as possible, which...I basically already have done?

Also, that TheThinker wagon was town as fuck with two obvious, glaring exceptions:

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics.
(The other is SirCakez.)
Aeronaut has moved into full-blown scumread territory. LUV's push on me makes me think that, short of Pine coaching them to do exactly that (not impossible, mind you), they are probably town. The fourth remains Molla.

Half-on, half-off.

The stalling signifies to me that scum were happy with the game state and weren't being wagoned until klingon got traction. Or: none of the wagons were scum and we were just able to lynch thinker at the end due to compromise. But the wagons on pine, AJ, and cakez stood long enough with little enough opposition that I'm comfortable calling them town.

Alternatively: the wagon on SirCakez was on scum, and morphed into the wagon on Pine, also on scum. Scum used deadline and players' suspicions on TheThinker to rush through a quicklynch on town, rather than on scum.

I still maintain that the majority of that wagon is town, but the Pine and SirCakez votes are egregious.

Are we still "almost in RVS", mastin? Cause your play hasn't changed much from yesterday

What game are

you

reading?

Sure the fuck isn't this one because I'm going absolutely

ballistic

to try and get you to lynch Pine-a-Tonics.

There are some things I am avoiding--quite deliberately in some cases. I have reasons for that, not all of which I can elaborate on.

But what are you asking for?

I'm telling you exactly why Pine is scum.
I'm telling you why Gin's head is still scum.
I'm laying out their actions.

I'm pointing out why SirCakez is scum.
Molla hasn't even posted much of anything so there's nothing to point out as scum aside from that he hasn't posted much of anything.
And Aeronaut was prodded meaning he hasn't actually posted much of anything. They're not posting, so obviously I can't point out why they're scum if they're not showing it, now can I?

But for Pine, who IS posting?

I

have

been.

What do you want that I haven't given? I've given you the VCA. NKA. I've given you the mindset. The motive. The interactions, the tone, the content of the posts. They're scum. I guarantee you.

I need to reevaluate townreads since I was wrong about Pine and Klingon. I feel safe with this vote though.
VOTE: AJ

"I swear I'm going to reevaluate my reads, but here have a vote which...is not me reevaluating my reads".

The problem is that no one has really done anything scummy

Try looking at players like Aeronaut and SirCakez for a start.

There's others I have in mind, but that'll require me to effort on rereading and pointing out sections--something I hope to do tonight anyway, but certainly not before I first get caught up on the game.

Oh, right. That reminds me.
VOTE: Aeronaut.
I wasn't actually voting. New day, Pine's dead, and all that.

K-2SO, JOAT
1- shot Deflect, 1-shot Redirect, 1-shot Rolestop

Okay.
Fuck the vanillaized claim.
VOTE: BBMolla.
BBMolla was a scumread of mine D1, and this is a scum role full-stop.

Molla's claim to be vanillaized is almost assuredly a gambit.
And, yes. That sort of wifom claim is something

exactly

up Pine's alley.
It's his modus operandi, even. He SPECIALIZES, absolutely SPECIALIZES. More than any fucking player in the game. SPECIALIZES in wifom gambits. And it was his role they gambited on.

Now, not sure whether they actually used a vanillaize shot on Molla. Could work either way. Lying allows Molla to get away with using these abilities and also has the side-effect of making people never want to target Molla. (They assume, "Oh, Molla was vanillaized, he must be town and thus not worthy of being looked at".) Using it truthfully allows for stronger wifom and the possibility that if Molla was, say, watched, then nobody would call him out on the bullshit.

Both have the ups and the downs.
But this claim?

This was a scum role. Through-and-through. There's ZERO town use in those abilities, outside of specific situations.
The scum use of those abilities is obvious:
Redirection, need not be said. Basically one of the strongest possible scum abilities and was blacklisted from Normals for damn good reason.
Deflection, much the same: protects a scumbuddy from harm.
And rolestop?

We just learned that the Rogue Crew had a vig kill.
We also know that TheThinker was a 2x-vig.
What do you think that rolestop shot was meant to be used for?

It's a scum role. Simple as that.
Molla's play is scum (I'll show that in a bit), Molla's claim is scum, he's just scum.

Trust me on this.

Spoiler: Cake defending Mastin scumread of Cake (probably Pine too)

The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina

The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina

What are your first impressions on Mastina?

/Gin

Still think the slot is town, just irritated that she's going to be annoying me by holding her cryptic scumreads over my head while being completely closed to engagement

In his own post, he had other places that he looked like he wanted to go and settled with me

But is it really.

Yep, I'm not sure what this quote is supposed to show

I sometimes wonder if Mastina just RNGs her reads and then tries to explain them. That would be funny.

It's mastina Piper
Don't expect her plays to line up with what she's saying

Where did Titus write me off as bad town?

I'm to lazy to ISO to get the quotes but basically when I said your vote on Titus was bad then she was all like "oh hey how is this diffrent than all the others times I've been wagoned unjustly." or something along those lines.

I don't recall this at all.

I sometimes wonder if Mastina just RNGs her reads and then tries to explain them. That would be funny.

Hey, lets talk theory!

So, as scum, I think that calling a player town is kinda buddying or pocketing to use the new jargon. I think alot of players are stupidly OMGUSY so when a scum player calls another player town then its less of a chance they get voted and I think, atleast subliminally, when a player knows they are town and are being called town they kinda go "Oh hey X is reading me correctly so they must be town too!" This is my first time playing with Mastina but I've played several times with her on the Mastin2 account and I know that she has entered the game in a similar style in the past. Was she scum that game? Town? She likely does this regardless of alignment although she's fairly scummy here.

She does it regardless of alignment. It makes me wonder if her "lists" and quote walls where she goes "town, town, scum!" are just for WIFOM.

Also, I like Heartless.

#HeartlessForRogueLeader2017

That's a

Vote: Heartless for Rogue Leader

In case mod wants to be picky.

Don't dodge my question

Aero's lack of presence when he has been posting elsewhere on site is concerning

Ok I get trying to start new wagons but these 4 vanity wagons should not be a thing

^^^

^ that is what I mean by rambling

And while nice, it's the kind of ramble that I can easily see being fake.

They're mastina rambles, they're NAI.

So yes, I'd like to know why I was demoted from top tier town and leapfrogged by someone on your null list (Aero) and someone that you were considering moving to null (Piper)

Why do you care so much about this? Looks like something odd to be stuck up on.

Also I know this will never happen today but my Titus read is really heading south. Nothing she's posting is memorable and she's hardly contributing in general.

the part where you were saying her play around klingon makes sense as scum

Attempting to pocket Klingon by backing off of her was what it looks like now.

Pine's behavior around mastina means she's probtown, agreed.

[Nero Cain]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

[PeregrineV]

This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic

Yes, that one

OK. When you find the posts that explain why Cake is town, we can disucss the wagon makeup. I have lots of townreads on it.

[PeregrineV]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

Sure. I think she's town at this point.

[PeregrineV]

50 seems a reaction to 49 which seems a reaction to 47.

Find it hard to believe PineTonic calls out scumbuddy-Titus for her voting infinifty, and telling her to back off (57 , 60).

If PineTonic whiteknights a town player, it most likely is from another town player, not from a scum partner.

Unless I find something that informs me otherwise, I have Titus as leaning town.

This mostly.

[Nero Cain]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

Sure. I think she's town at this point.

why?

[Nero Cain]

or nm

[PeregrineV]

Plus scum-Titus has 4x times the shitposting, in order to wreck the most havoc with town as possible.

Plus, I'm saving a hard-ISO of her until after more flips, since I read/misread her at about 50%.