Pick Your Power: Double Deck (GAME OVER)

[Vecna]

Anyways we only have limited time left for the second lynch, and we have three-four people that will continue to vote for you regardless of what happens Dunn. Even if my lingering suspicion that this is a scum driven wagon is correct, its still better to lynch you now than tomorrow where the mislynch might cost us the game.

Im still not sure whether the scum kill was meant to kill/frame you or try and get you off the hook, but this has to happen for the game to move on.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Quipla]

DECK x 30 - TRUMP x 1 - DISCARD PILE x 53

DAY 7 VOTECOUNT #10

Dunnstral (4)

- Maxous, drealmerz7, gerryoat, Vecna

Vecna (1)

- -Grey-

gerryoat (1)

- Fishythefish

drealmerz7 (1)

- Dunnstral

Not Voting (0)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is set for (expired on 2017-02-03 12:16:26).

Dunnstral was lynched Day 7. Flip will be revealed at the end of the Day.

72 hours will be added to the deadline and the vote count will be reset.

[Quipla]

DECK x 30 - TRUMP x 1 - DISCARD PILE x 53

DAY 7 VOTECOUNT #11

Not Voting (6)

- -Grey-, gerryoat, Fishythefish, Maxous, drealmerz7, Vecna

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is set for (expired on 2017-02-06 12:16:13).

[drealmerz7]

that is a horrible post...

you are making a case that "drealmer is like this as town every time but not as scum" - but you didn't look at my scumgames and so you say "you feel like I'd act different" as scum, without actually having any clue ??? that's not a case, that's pulling something stinky out of your ass

I don't really recall giga hard defending your slot, point out to me if I am wrong, but, regardless 1.) I think you and maxous are scum, not you and grey, I think maxous should be the 2nd lynch, 2.) you think giga being alive would be saving you? there are 2 scum left, and you think they are? me and maxous? and we're pushing your lynch specifically why?

these aren't rhetorical questions, please answer them

p-edit...well then...I guess you can't answer them

YOU JUST FUCKING SAT AROUND AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, like a scumbucket

[drealmerz7]

VOTE: maxous

[Vecna]

VOTE: maxous

Dude stop

[drealmerz7]

?

yes I get it you don't think maxous is scum

but you won't say why, and no one is fucking saying much of anything

what would you like to do?

[Vecna]

VOTE: GREY

This is the lynch we need, right fucking now. I present you my reasons for wanting this.

-Twice during lights out lynching (where he was the only one with the card), MAFIA DID NOT KILL HIM. Not doing it during the first one I understand somewhat, since the odds of them being lynched are low. Not saving the kill to kill grey today during the second lynch to stop it means either Grey is scum and couldnt be killed, or mafia were totally fine letting one of their own be lynched. Notice that if grey was town, scum could have saved the kill, observed if scum or town gets lynched with the second lynch, and either let grey live to get a second mislynch, or kill grey to save their teammate if a scum was up on the chopping block.

-Grey vigged Titus. Nothing extraordinary on its own. However Titus was heavily pushing and scumreading both Kison and LUV who we now know to have been scum. Titus was correct, and the only way of getting rid of her was to have someone that appeared as town vig here so noone would expect that scum wanted her gone. If scum had used a factional kill on Titus, people wouldve looked into the reads and pushed on kison and Luv. This shot by grey is the main reason mafia has done so well up untill now. And it was done to protect his 2 scumteammates.

-Notice that as soon as I stated I wanted Grey for the second lynch he abandoned his crusade against Dunn to vote me. He was pushing that for the longest of times, and one scumread on him and his read is suddenly out of the window.

-Grey has the alpha vig, and theres still 4 out of 30 remaining cards that will activate it. If it becomes trump during the night or next day phase, scum will win straight away if dunn was town. Grey drafted that alpha vig as 6th in line. NOTICE how scum started killing off all people above Grey straight out of the gate. Why would they kill off Rb that was townreading LUV? Why would they kill creature? Im suspecting its because they wanted to remove other potential people that could have the alpha vig so that Grey could kill people.

This is the lynch that needs to happen.

[drealmerz7]

hmmmm

I keep getting pulled off my scumlean/SR of grey and there are a few reasons I think he is less likely scum and maxous is more likely - I do find it notable that dunnstral was saying grey was being setup as the next lynch when I didn't notice anyone having really paired them previously and I (and others I think?) had said I viewed the team as dunn+maxous

Those points you raise are some thoughts I've had before and I will think on it all / look for grey's response and what others have to say, but,

I like my vote on maxous, it feels right

[-Grey-]

Just hold your water on voting me until tomorrow.

Dunnstral flipping scum makes lynching me stupid.

VOTE: Maxous

[Vecna]

Just hold your water on voting me until tomorrow.

Dunnstral flipping scum makes lynching me stupid.

VOTE: Maxous

Yeah lets conveniently wait for you to mislynch on a town and get a vig-shot and win the game

[-Grey-]

Just hold your water on voting me until tomorrow.

Dunnstral flipping scum makes lynching me stupid.

VOTE: Maxous

Yeah lets conveniently wait for you to mislynch on a town and get a vig-shot and win the game

No other scum thus far have flipped with neighborhood cards.

At all.

Dunnstral was most likely their neighborhood spy.

[Vecna]

Just hold your water on voting me until tomorrow.

Dunnstral flipping scum makes lynching me stupid.

VOTE: Maxous

Yeah lets conveniently wait for you to mislynch on a town and get a vig-shot and win the game

No other scum thus far have flipped with neighborhood cards.

At all.

Dunnstral was most likely their neighborhood spy.

So then why did you unvote him and make someone else hammer the slot?

[-Grey-]

Atm I can see everyone as scum actually. The last 24 hours have completely fucked over any reads I had before.

Stuff like this rings like scum to me.

Scum love flipping the table on their reads because it helps them dodge accountability.

[-Grey-]

Why didn't you all me about it when it happened?

[-Grey-]

Ask*

[Vecna]

Why didn't you all me about it when it happened?

I wanted to see if you would keep your vote or hammer your scumread when the deadline passed. Notice how I did question you about it when the deadline passed.

[Vecna]

Atm I can see everyone as scum actually. The last 24 hours have completely fucked over any reads I had before.

Stuff like this rings like scum to me.

Scum love flipping the table on their reads because it helps them dodge accountability.

Apparently it only rings like scum to you when its people that announce theyre going to want to lynch you soon. Fish stated the exact same thing yet you never commented on that. Also, are you seriously trying to claim that im trying to dodge accountability? The only one trying to dodge accountability with anything was you unvoting your scumread.

[-Grey-]

Fuck it, not interested in bothering with a shit push.

VOTE: Grey

I'm out.

[gerryoat]

well it could be either grey or max. we have a few days, no need to act hasty

[gerryoat]

i'd prefer grey, but i'm gonna take time to reread

[Fishythefish]

I'm really sure this is between Max and Grey. I'm rereading them hard now. gerry is the other person I can see as scum, but lynching gerry before Dunn flips would be silly.

[Maxous]

not entirely comfortable with the 1 vs 1 lock in, gonna be honest

[Fishythefish]

Grey

Vecna's case on Grey is OK.
1) Lights Out Lynching, but no kill on Grey. This is a good point. MaxScum also explains it quite well, although even then the scum

about to be lynched

could still shoot Grey to derail it.
2) Vigging Titus. This would have been a great kill for scum. I still find the kill-then-claim thing an unlikely scumplay, though. I've rarely (never?) seen such brazen scumplay at that sort of stage of the game.
3) Grey's diversion to Vecna. Meh. No real scum motivation.
4) Alpha vig and scum shooting at the top - maybe. rb and Creature weren't weird kills otherwise, but do fit even better with GreyScum.

On the other side of the equation:
1) Grey took the King of Diamonds. This card is so full of town it's ridiculous. Loverise is bad, but much worse for scum. LoL is really crap in scum hands, and looks good in town hands (it can actually be something of a trap with scum shooting at it, but I suspect most or all of us missed that at draft time).
2) Yeah, I really don't think kraska was scum. Posts that jumped out include:
- post 266.
I just can't really imagine writing, as scum, a post with a sentence where all three people I mention are scum. In general, very early on kraska interacts a lot with scum.
- 2770. It's a bit of a towntell for me for kraska to insist on the towniness of the King of Diamonds (which she had, unclaimed).
- 3818. Again, I just don't see scum writing this as partners with Maria, Uzi and Kison.
But also, just all of it. My gut is screaming that kraska wasn't scum. If she was faking her scumhunting, it was a pretty great performance.

Grey's play I can't read very well. It's... superficial. His reads are either unexplained, or based on recent chunks of the game. He doesn't say anything much about many people in the game. None of this is particularly alignment indicative (or at least, not in any way I can read).

[Fishythefish]

Max

- Triple neighbourise is a bit town to me. His play in our hood is just fine. Though our hood chain (me-Max-Vecna) has been very open with information, so if Max is scum his job has been easy.
- I think Max is right when he says that if either of us were scum, we'd have shot Vecna.

Max's day 1 is underwhelming, but he picks up the pace D2. He does some kill analysis clearing Uzi which would be weird as his partner. And... I'm tired and struggling to read through his ISO, much less post coherently about it. But I don't think it looks like scum. Lots of sensible stuff in the face of silliness from the town.

So, I'm wrong about someone. I'm not *that* convinced it's Grey or Max. I feel like I'm missing something that would crack this thing wide open. Particularly with two pretty hard to understand kills by scumbags (Spyrex, TWIE).

I'll give this another go tomorrow evening, and get to an answer and vote. Current lean is Grey, but nothing feels right.