D2 alliance, Yume and RR. Same deal, paraphrase what she said, direct quote what we said.
Yume: Says hi, and makes a reference to Jasper and Lapis Lazuli(she makes such references throughout, I'm still uncertain if these were references to the other crystal gems, or if she had used her hood creating power and she was talking about whoever she made a hood with).
Cerb:"Lol.
Point of allying with you was to claim our event and see if you/mastin could coordinate with making it work optimally for us. There's a vote involved, and we need to make sure the right person ends up receiving the benefit. Details when I get to a computer."
Yume: Confused about us trusting her enough to claim, and wonders if it's flavor related.
Cerb: Quotes her previous post(which was quite short, my paraphrase added the obvious meaning behind a short sentence), then"There are 4 options for your flavor, though only one is unquestionable, arrived at through a simple logical process.
1) Among her town reads, mastin would not have chosen you to friendly neighbor+gain a neighborhood with.
2) This means your slot selection was due to the mechanic she employed itself.
3) This means it was based on the role you rolled.
4) Mastin NEVER said you were conftown as in, rhe moderator had stated you were conftown.
5) Therefore you're conftown as a result of something else related to the effect. Most likely thing is either a flavor claim OR(more likely) moderator confirmed flavor.
6) So, you must be a role with near certain town flavor: One of the crystal gems.
7) Any of the gems are possible, BUT I don't believe Mastin would assume any gem except for Steven himself was town.
So, you're almost definitely Steven, and if not, you're one of the Crystal Gems, and such was confirmed by the moderator to mastin.
So you're safe to talk to. I wouldn't be saying all this right now except I'm pretty sure scum should have already figured it out."
Yume: Sucks that you figured that out even though we didn't want to give it away. She did use "we" here, another one of the hints about the CG being a separate faction.
Cerb:"It's possible they didn't figure it out. I mean, it requires one knows mastin and yourself and other people she put at the top of her town list, and understands that it's unlikely she would have chosen you over other options she had, since there were others she townread more (iirc) and others who generally have more of a thread presence.
I'm gonna summarize here cause I'm still comfy down here and my room is really fucking hot:
Our event (which we will be able to trigger tonight unless we have another scum lynch and this one flips immediately, OR an event lowers the stress) allows town to vote for a single slot who will receive either a gunsmith shot, a one shot passive bp, or a lightning rod. Town slots give someone 3 points if they voted for themselves, 2 points if they're voting for their ally, and 1 point if they vote for anyone else. Scum slots have all their vote values halved.
We told Titus about this because in Suikoden Mafia she used a similar power to get scum to basically out themselves. She suggested we just use it without warning anyone, and call for a mass vote claim afterwards.
My concern is that thus vote will end up torn between you, mastin, and OWK, and some slot scum throw their votes behind will get the benefits, sooo I'm here to work with you and mastin to try to get at least 3 votes focused on a single slot when the event happens."
Yume: Tells something about our previous posts is wrong, but doesn't specify what, and makes fun of our use of logic, and suggests that ther'es something obvious we're missing.
Cerb:"Are you talking about the reasoning I used regarding your likely flavor, or about the event thing?
And we don't really need to say anything more about your flavor. There are limited options as far as I'm concerned, and you shouldn't work to correct me. I was just letting you know that if my reasoning is true, scum could have figured it out too(especially with OWK announcing that your flavor is definitely town), so take appropriate precautions.
What are your thoughts on the event thing? Feel free to share it with mastin."
Yume: Clarifies that she was talking about FB(referring to something in thread without giving specifics, obviously the FB being removed from the game thing, but I'm not sure what exact part of what I said prompted her to make that comment, would need to check time stamps versus thread.)
Cerb:"Oh. I'm not really sure what I said about it that I could be wrong on lol, other than whether or not it was a scum kill. I assume mastin explained to you what she knows about it and why she knows FB is dead? Again, not something I need to know more about, just gonna take your and mastins words at face value on it. It would be good to know if it was the scum kill or not, but I don't know how mastin could possibly know that, so if she knows anything about it it means it probably wasn't. "
Yume: Mastin doesn't trust you, and then she refers back to the obvious thing we're missing.
Cerb:"There are obvious answers, yes. Either you or her caused it to happen, most likely. And, umm. Just tell her about the thing please and when it happens pick the same person then, I guess. I'll try to pick whoever I think you guys would choose."
Drixx:"I don't just want to STOP Cluster Yume ... I want to work out a way to get scum to be forced help. I think it's pretty easy but you should run it by Mastin.
The idea is that we announce we have a plan and that town watchers/trackers should focus on top scumspects because anyone taking an action will be considered scum. I mean it's a gambit because we don't know if we have the PRs necessary to actually catch scum, but the scum team can't really know either, so they have to choose between using their abilities (and potentially getting caught, which is as good as a cop guilty) or not using their abilities and helping us beat their own event.
Sometimes simple is the best. What do you think?"
Yume: Agrees
Drixx:"Well ... it counts on any town watchers/trackers realizing that they should NOT actually use their ability. We can't tell them that. We have to say they should and trust them to realize what we're doing. The idea is to make the scum fear that if they act they could be caught and thus force them to help us defeat their event.
It's a gambit, because I don't think we can afford to actually use actions. We have no idea how many points we need, but it's obviously going to be a lot because it's a Varsoon theme game and that means lots of PRs and the ability to get 3 points out of 2 people and having 2 nights to accumulate points ... that's going to be a HIGH bar to clear.
Run it by Mastin though. She may think of a better way to scare scum into helping defeat their own event."
Yume: Says she will do as requested.
Drixx:"We probably need to ask Varsoon in private if triggering events counts or not. I think it probably shouldn't count because they aren't abilities and I think they're all one time. Ours is and A50 said his was.
@Varsoon: Does withholding using an event that could be triggered give points?"
Drixx:"By the way Yume; what I just did in the game is intentional. I want to see who will jump on that and try to use it against us.
In the context of what I was saying, the only thing that would be "obvious" to everyone is me not posting again in the main game thread. By putting the word scum in there, I'm trying to see if I can bait scum into outing themselves to try and push our lynch, since it was pretty close to going through so fast so early in the day. Anyone who reads that sentence and tries to say that I would be saying that "obviously I didn't post in the scum PT" or something like that will be REALLY stretching, which makes them either REALLY confbiased or scum.
I don't know if it will work or not. I debated whether or not to do the "EbWoP" post or not. Let's see
"
Drixx:"We have a winner! Creature bites."
Yume: More generic agreement
Drixx:"I gambit a lot. Misdirection is one of the most powerful tools at our disposal in mafia."
Yume: Me too, I was testing you with the cluster stuff, and you passed.
Varsoon:Answers the q uestion, which he also answered in the main thread.
Drixx:"Okay Yume. You have a lot to relay to Mastin. You should be sure to let her know that the top 3 vote receivers during "Beach-a-palooza" will be announced and have their point totals given. Also be sure she knows that scum votes count for only half. There may be a way to set up using the event in such a way that those mechanics out scum. Counting on you to relay info to her since putting it in the thread makes it useless."
Yume: Done.
Drixx:"Okay cool. I just hope Mastin will consider it. We've been trying basically since the start of the game to find town and figure out how to use this event to maximum utility. Getting a cop check into conftown hands plus having a chance to catch scum is really powerful."
Yume: Mastin should win beach-a-palooza.
Cerb:"It informs scum so they know to not shoot your allies. :/
And that's the plan. We just want to make sure votes don't get split between mastin and other highly townread options."
Yume: Quotes my last post, and says she's gonna protect town somehow.
Yume: Admits to flavor ignorance outside of her role, but personally likes Lapis and Jasper.
Cerb: Quotes the previous, then"Oh, okay. Lol. Got it.
And okay. I suppose that makes sense. Reasonable gambit to virtually doc protect them."
Yume: What else do you want to talk about?
Cerb:"I have a headache. "
Yume: youtube video of a SU song.
Drixx:"Yume... we can't unilaterally decide who gets the reward. The event will lock the game thread for 48 hours and everyone will vote for someone. Scum votes count half as much points as town votes.
So ... it will be down to everyone voting who gets to choose the reward they get. Mastin should win without us having to out this information, which means we could potentially catch scum voting for one of their own. That's why I wanted to co-ordinate with Titus (remember what she did in Suikoden with the fruit code and the thread lock vote?) and now with you and Mastin. If only really strong almost certainly town people know, we have a good chance of not only getting the great reward in conftown hands, but also if we can figure it out we could maybe catch scum as well."
Yume: Your plan doesn't stop the cluster even if we get some guilties out of it.
Yume: Not certain that the whole town will make mastin win beach-a-palooza
Cerb:"Yeah, Drixx and I have differing thoughts on this. I think it's most important to firmly establish a bloc of slots who we know are going to vote for mastin, amd have them ally outside the bloc to maximize the number of votes on mastin. That ensures she receives the reward, which I believe to be paramount.
Drixx wants to be super clever and try to catch scum with it, but since only the top three vote getters will be revealed, I view this as implausible. I suppose if we have a strong enough circle of probtown. In out alliances, who all vote for mastin, low vote count anomalies championed by scum may show up which otherwise wouldn't?"
Yume: Tells us she can get someone else to vote with us and that we shoudl know who that person is(thus confirming to us that she's DEFINITELY Steven, rather than just one of the gems).
Cerb:"*sigh* you weren't supposed to confirm whether you were a gem or steven, but yes. Working with them as well would be very strong. That's 5 slots, up to 10 allied who could all vote for mastin.
You probably shouldn't tell them any of the details though, just push them to vote for mastin along with their alliance mate."
Yume: Suspicious that we immediately came up with 5 slots who could vote for mastin.
Cerb:quotes the previous, and then "Yume, RR, OWK, Mastin, and the mystery person who I won't name but we both know who it is.
All of us can ally others, for a total of 10 individuals we could organize."
Yume: Want to know how I know who the mystery person is.
Cerb: Quotes yume's previous post, then "Yume. You told me that if I had been paying attention , I would know who it is. I posited two possible scenarios, which gave you four possible flavors. Only one of those flavors has had anything happen that is so bvious that I should know if I'm paying attention. Maybe I'm missing something you said some unexplained town read you've expressed, but I don't believe you've expressed any such thing in thread."
Yume: Notes that we had mentioned four flavors, and that maybe those flavors had a pt, so maybe she's talking about one of them.(Thus confirming to us that the gems have PT together)
Yume: Not claiming anything, just pointing out something you've missed.
Yume: Don't tell anyone what you've figured out about who I am or jasper will hurt you.
Cerb:quotes the PT possibility post from yume, then "That absolutely occurred to me, but I found a four man masonry implausible, and there's *no* reason at all why I would "know" who they were if I had been "paying attention" In that case.
(Plus you just said you could BG your allies)
Not relevant though, doesn't really matter. All that matters is the potential to rally 10 votes for mastin, making it basically impossible for anyone else to win, and very likely that any low vote count slots scum might be trying to sneak in will show up.
-Cerb
Pedit: lol. Lips sealed."
Cerb:"We're probably getting lynched today anyway, eventually, so we won't have any more alliance to spill the beans in anyways."
Yume: Can you use your event before you get lynched today?
Cerb:"We have to activate it at night, so yeah. Only if we make it to night phase wilmth stress at +1 or greater can we trigger it."
Drixx:"So no ... we cannot activate the event before the town lynches us. Activate at night and the next exposition phase starts locked for 48 hours. (This is why I crumbed to Titus the way I did). Was hoping to pull of a Suikoden repeat
"
Drixx:"It's really frustrating to me that it's conftown driving the lynch on us too. Out of the whole wagon, maybe 2 slots are questionable. Like ... when town lines up to lynch one of the best town players, and scum can just stay away from the wagon, that hurts PoE later on."
Yume: Talks about shiro's role overlapping with hers, with no specifics.
Drixx:"Do you believe that it was just a co-incidence and Shiro really just made up a power like yours, or do you think something like a rolecop might be in play and that could be a slip or a claim designed to get you to counter or something?"
Yume: Dunno.
Cerb:"Oh. I just realized. If you're going to ally with Titus, you're decreasing the membership of our mastin for beachapalooza winner by 2 (the allies you could each potentially get on board). Given what you've said you can do, it's probably for the best, but I just wanted to note it."
Yume: I just want to be her ally, the mechanical stuff is real though but I only said it to convince her.
Cerb:"Ya, that's cool, I was just noting it. "
Yume: Greets us
Cerb:"*waves*
Yo Yume. Working now, just keeping up with the thread. What's on your mind?"
Yume: posts a picture of Lapis Lazuli
Yume: She's just like me
Cerb:"That....makes me really sad. "
Cerb:"I'm really sorry you feel that way.
Umm.
Feel free to message me on your main and mine anytime you'd like to chat, k?"
Yume: we both act stronger than we are.
Yume: I won't, don't want to be replaced.
Cerb:"I understand. I didn't mean right now, that was an open offer, anytime you'd care to take me up on it."
Drixx:"Hey Yume. Got a lot of info for you. We made a bad assumption and I was looking at our role PM because of Cerb's speculation about a possible 3rd party faction (I think he might be right, but that's a separate issue that I'll address at the end of my post), and I looked at our ability and realized something. Assuming Mastin wins the Beach-A-Palooza, she will be able to choose from the following prizes:
1.) One-Shot Kill immunity, consumed when next targeted by a kill (so this is passive; doesn't have to be activated).
2.) One-shot Climax-phase investigate a target to see if they are capable of killing a player.
3.) One-shot Climax-phase mass-redirect, which causes all other abilities to redirect to the user. (Lightning Rod basically)
Since we're town and we don't have any way to kill someone (no vig shots or anything like that), we assumed we would be cleared by the 2nd item. You can look at our ISO and see us refer to it being able to clear us. We were WRONG. We need you to tell Mastin that if she takes that reward, she should NOT waste it on us. It will return a positive on us, and we freely admit it. I asked Varsoon just now and he confirmed that we will show up as having the ability to kill. The only way we can explain this is to full claim. I'm a little concerned about this, because if Cerb's theory about a 3rd party team is correct, you would almost certainly be in that group, but I think that group probably can win with town, so I'm going to risk it and share so you can pass along to Mastin.
We are Sadie. Under our flavor text it says we're aligned with the town faction and human. At the bottom of our role PM it says we're aligned with Earth and that in order to win, all threats to Earth have to be removed AND an Earth-aligned player must be alive.
That second part is why I think Cerb is right about a 3rd faction because otherwise it would be impossible to have all threats to Earth removed from the game but have all Earth-aligned players dead. I think there must be a third party group of Crystal Gems who have the goal of eliminating all the scum team, but they don't need any of us humans alive to win.
Our ability is called "Just Get Out of My Life!" and during the season finale (day 4, day 8, day 12, etc...) if we hammer a player, that player is killed -- no effect may keep them alive in any way. - The part that I made bold and italicized is the part that Varsoon says will make the investigate confirm we are capable of killing a player. We didn't think that it would count because it's not actually a kill. It's just finishing a lynch; however, Varsoon says it will return a positive. Make sure Mastin knows this. She can ask him questions about what will or will not return a yes once she has the ability to choose her reward. She should be able to confirm that our ability will show up on that investigate.
Our event is Beach-a-palooza and we already claimed all that.
So yeah: the biggest thing that Mastin needs to know is that using that on us is a WASTE. We will show up as capable of killing. We will claim this in the main thread if needed. If she wants to take the investigate instead of the kill immunity, she should use it on someone else since it would be wasted confirming what we just told you.
My thinking about the 3rd party faction is that you and Mastin a probably a part of it, and I think it PROBABLY wins with town, because our win condition is written in such a way that it makes no sense that a 3rd party group would win and town wouldn't UNLESS all of us are dead. I'm not asking you to confirm or deny or comment on this. I'm not fishing here. If we're correct about this, sooner or later we'll find out via a flip so it's irrelevant really. I just wanted to let you know what we're thinking in case we're on the right track.
Let me know if you have any questions."
Yume: confirms that the gems are 3p and mastin isn't one of them.
Drixx:"Yume. Don't just give out info like that. Like ... if you are telling the truth you don't want to out that. This site HATES 3rd parties. Admitted 3rd party are policy lynches to most people.
I mean ... it's nice to know that we figured it out (presuming you are being honest; the part I'm worried about is whether you win with town or not), but you gotta keep info safe.
Please pass on the info to Mastin; she needs to know so that she can ask Varsoon the proper questions when she wins beach-a-palooza. That should let her confirm that we will come up as having the ability to kill because of our ability to hammer during finale episodes and the hammered player cannot avoid being hammered (this implies that scum may have a way to get out of being hammered, by the way; make sure Mastin realizes that). That will also make it so she doesn't waste the investigate if she chooses that reward."
Yume: Told her.
Yume: I'm basically town and I don't want to lie anymore.
Drixx:"You don't want to publicly claim 3rd party. Does Mastin know? She just made a post a few minutes ago that any 3rd party claim will get lynched.
Cerb and I are going to tell the game our theory but we're not going to say a word about you confirming it. We need town to go look at their win condition and realize that having a third group who probably wins with town should alter how they read interactions. Cerb and I are doing a complete overhaul of how we're reading things now that we realized it."
Yume: I never told her and never will.
Yume: I can help you convince the town without claiming by just vouching for your reasoning.
Cerb:"Hmm. That's true.
That would save Drixx and I from having to figure out how to not actually say anything explicit about any specific slots.
Feel free to do so."
Cerb:"Just so you know what someone else may have been able to figure out based on the game:
Klingon is a gem as well.
Your faction is able to recruit peridot. This belief is based on klingons peridot "obsession" and your consistent mention of Lapis+Jasper, who are tied to Peridot.
You believed Firebringer was peridot, and that bubbling effect could have allowed you to recruit them. I don't know if they actually are peridot or not though, and whether or not you recruited them/actually did vanillaize them, or if they're just saying that so they can privately arrange to give their inventions to you guys.
If mastin isn't a gem, I have no idea who they are. Basically one of Mastin and Skybird is Connie, and the other is...I don't know? Maybe Lapis, who doesn't count as a crystal gem technically? Or maybe Lion? Or umm..idk man. Steven has too many friends.
Anyways, yeah. That's where my game solving stuff is at right now.
Don't confirm or deny ANY of this, even if I'm super wrong. If I'm super wrong, just laugh about it to yourself please.
I just want you to aware of what others may have figured out at a minimum."
Yume: lol
Yume: I just love jasper nad lapis.
Cerb:quotes the laugh post, then"<3"
Yume: You telling me to stop telling you stuff makes me want to tell you stuff.
Drixx:"We believe that the Crystal Gems will help us win. Therefore it's in our best interest not to know. What we don't know we can't accidentally leak.
For example: there's a lot of places in the game thread where strange phrasing and such made us sure there is a PT out there unclaimed, which we think is probably the Crystal Gems factional PT. We don't think anyone meant to reveal it, but just by knowing they leaked it. We're really careful, but no matter how careful you are, if you know something you can accidentally give clues. If you don't know, there's no way you can ever reveal it, even accidentally.
So in this case, the less we know the better."
Cerb:"Yume, could you please tell mastin to let the game know about the fact that there is very possibly a scum mechanism for avoid death by lynch? Either a resurrection or a straight up lynchproof? If we share it we're less likely to live to the season finale to potentially shut down that effect, so we probably shouldn't share it, but mastin already had basically infinite attention on her and has consistently displayed additional knowledge, so it wouldn't be too surprising if she were to share the information and it wouldn't increase her risk at all."
Yume: I will.
Yume: Scum can't resurrect, and mastin can tell you the details.
Cerb:"Understood. Yeah, the resurrection thing seemed less likely than straight lynchproof, but it was the only other possibility I could think of. "
Yume: The town doesn't agree with your theory.
Cerb:"Yeah. :/
I mean, all I can really do is present the evidence, and make sure people aren't doing dumb things because they're not aware of the possibility."
Drixx:"The obvious reason not to say anything more is because Crystal Gems 3rd party faction, assuming we're right, already demonstrated the ability to "remove" someone from the game, which helps town win condition. They also are likely to have really strong abilities and events. We don't want to point out the places where people leaked unintentionally, because that basically outs the people most likely to BE the group in question, and so we can't point the game to the strongest evidence.
Also; tell Mastin to stop being silly. Our ability really is what I said it is. Tell her that yes I know that it is basically the ability I fake claimed in SMITE and yes I understand that might make her wary, but it's just a co-incidence. We really do have the ability to hammer someone on finale episodes and no ability or effect can prevent them from being lynched. The fact that we have this implies that scum have the ability to escape lynch somehow.
At this point, I'm ready to just ignore her and move on but if we could get our best people all working together, it would be so much better."
Yume:Only one other CG can bubble until we both die.
Yume: It's hard to convince her.
Yume: Our win condition also needs us to keep town alive.
Drixx:"Don't share any more Yume. Please. We figured out the third party thing based upon people phrasing things in ways that didn't make sense. If we know, we could leak. We don't need or want to know.
I'm sure your group has more than just the bubble ability, and I suspect you have really powerful abilities (We were Steven in SU and we had the ability to bodyguard AND not die doing so, for example), and probably really good events. We do NOT want to say anything that points out who you guys are to the scum team. Let us protect you guys so you can help us win. Don't tell us more. I know you want to (and I understand that urge), but just don't.
P-edit: Interesting. But PLEASE stop telling us stuff."
Yume: agrees to stop telling us stuff and just tell it to jaspis instead.(still dunno who jaspis was)
Yume: There's lot's I could tell and I really want to.
Yume: I want to flavor claim.
Drixx:"And I would personally love to know all of it. And I will: AFTER the game. Knowing now won't help anyone. Trust me ... part of me wants to just let you spill it all, but that would be selfish and it wouldn't help.
It's taking considerable willpower to keep telling you to stop."
Drixx:"Umm... we worked out who you are awhile ago. You gave it away when you said you could BG."
Yume: public flavor claim.
Drixx:"You said you could BG in public, and anyone who looks at the first SU game will see that Steven is the BG. Therefore, it's most probable you are Steven and anyone paying attention probably knows. Don't confirm or deny. Varsoon likes to change things up, so we may have come to the wrong conclusion, but it doesn't matter if we're right about which person you are."
Yume: I'll be malachite in the future.
Yume: I'll probably die soon if everyone knows who I am now.
Yume: After I die tell them I'm gonna be Malachite.
Drixx:"Okay. Only if you stop telling me stuff though. Like ... pretty sure you just said that if you die you will resurrect. That's something that NOBODY should know but you."
Yume: You're wrong, I didn't say I have that power.
Drixx:"I misunderstood then. You said if you die to tell the game you'll come back.
But that's also besides the point. If the gem group has a resurrect, then scum almost certainly has one too, or it wouldn't be balanced. I think we should assume scum has some kind of resurrect or else several ways to avoid death. Maybe both?"
Cerb:"Let's...just stop this line of conversation.
Moving on. How do you feel about the DGB/Mathblade thing? The late ascetic thing is super irritating to me and I think I might be a little biased towards just wanting to lynch anyone who does it on principle."
Yume:Mathblade is not town.
Yume: I meant I'd be malachite in the next game.
Drixx:"I misunderstood. Then again ... you said that there was a resurrect in play and then said you'd come back, so it makes sense why I would misunderstand. And if you do have the BG ability like we had in the first SU, I can't imagine a better target to resurrect and protect. But I have way less info to work with.
Is mathblade scum because of the late ascetic claim, the prior play on the slot, or because of something else mathblade has said?"
Drixx:"Also I disagree with Cerberus. I think that the late Ascetic claim is reason to pause and re-evaluate."
Yume: cheep cheep reference, telling us that mastin=centipeetle, though it takes me abit to get it.
Yume: More references to that episode
Cerb:"I'll be honest, I've been trying to figure out what you're hinting at and I'm drawing a blank.
That's okay though."
Yume: More references.
Cerb:"OHHH.
Lol.
You just confirmed a suspicion of mine.
Like, I literally *just* expressed this thought to Drixx."
Yume: I want to read your PT.
Yume: That's connected to what you asked.
Cerb:quotes the last two Yume posts, then"Will do, you'll have to read our huge walls of chat logs to find where I told him my theory.
"
