Open 664 - Tit for Tat (Mafia Wins)

[Hawk]

One thing I hadn't considered but just thought of. Aubrey called for BRC to out himself and didn't even question to vote you instead of Spade off the counterclaim. He says it's because it didn't matter which way the went and he's right. But why do I surrender so effortlessly for Spade to be bussed. Aubrey it's fine. He's played flawlessly and his heavily town read by all of us me included. Meaning bussing Spade gives us this final 3. In some world where we manage to lynch you it's me Aubrey and CD and we lost days ago cause I would have voted CD and Aubrey knew that. It was win win for him. This is the only spot where it's good for him. But now reverse it. This situation is the worst for me. But I relent and even hammer Spade. Wouldn't I have wanted Aubrey Me CD and not You Me and Aubrey?? Like this is the worst situation for me.

It's the only thing I have left. If I was that confident about my townread shouldn't I have leaned one more time towards a mislynch than a bus. Same for Aubrey I think she plays it this way because it's almost impossible to touch her and lynching you was harder than ly ching Spade. Like if CD buys Aubreys plan we lynch before KT even comes back.

This is a tad silly. We were the most town-read this game. Almost unquestionably town-read, the both of us, so how are you in the worse position here? Furthermore, you use the "

If I were scum I would have brought X, Y, and Z into the finale because X and Y would have likely gone after Z

." Problem is Both X and Y is you and I, while Z being CD. That scenario is applicable to the both of us, and not just you.

You say it's silly but you realize that if that's true and I'm scum I know CD doesn't flip town, so why do I hammer and feel so fine with CD being shot and bussing my comrade? Do you think I throw all that gambit away for this final 3 where my own reckless town play can be seen potentially as scummier than your immaculate clean play?

Aubrey you've played a nearly perfect game and if you and Spade and Aelin win this i can only blame my sloppy play as town for it. But in this final 3 if I was scum I risked too much being unobservant thinking I was untouchable but Id like to give scum me more credit than that just like I give you scum you props. Your ISO is almost groomed for f3 to have 0 suspicious behavior.

Kop it's Aubrey please believe me. I've been sure all this game it wasn't Aubrey and now it's biting me in the ass. Spade even mocked my confident attitude. Don't let my sloppy town play be a town loss here. Vote Aubrey.

[Aubrey]

Immaculate clean play. Perfect play. Specially groomed for this.

What happened to alllll that dirt a few days ago you kept attacking me with? You're blowing this out of proportion, in order to look like a victim.

[Aubrey]

With only a few days left, you're going to need to pick up the pace Kop. Are u any closer to a conclusion, or do you have any more questions?

[Hawk]

Immaculate clean play. Perfect play. Specially groomed for this.

What happened to alllll that dirt a few days ago you kept attacking me with? You're blowing this out of proportion, in order to look like a victim.

It didn't feel like it was sticking and you even say that. Like it's easy for me to say your play was scummy, I know my rolecard, so I have to put scum motivations behind your play and it lines up fine but its just that I know your role at this point (because Kop is green and I'm green meaning you have to be red) So I can see scum intention but for Kop it probably looks pretty hard to justify as scum. :/ I mean the little that I posted was all I had and it's all circumstantial back and forth.

I say you bussed Aelin by the end of the day to gain town cred and it was literally the only play you could make after I flipped off of Alisae's wagon.

I think Spade and Aelin were carefully placing some distance between themselves and you. And mostly focusing on placing distance between the two of them so if they got scum read it might give the other a chance to make it through a day. Grooming you as the third townread player to make it to lategame.

I think you guys found Bang so you had to kill him that's why KT was alive yesterday to take a shot and even give us a shot if we mislynched. Otherwise you honestly believed that there was a way to use KT and convince him not to shoot. Or maybe you were setting up more potential towncred? like that attempt yesterday and then the oh don't listen to my stupidity KT shoots no matter what tonight.

Aubrey I can draw this up 100 different ways but I don't see a way to convince Kop that you are scum. I also don't see you making very many proactive plays to paint me as scum simple reversal of my claims and small points at my fairly sloppy town play.

Like here Aubrey if you don't like AtE then here. Here is why Aubrey is scum.

Aelin poses rather awkward distancing to Aubrey constantly asking about reads on Spade all of D1. Interacts with me in a much more organic way because I'm trying to run her up cause I thought she was scum for being oppurtunistic and coasting by.

Spade and Aubrey have some very calculated distance and Aubrey is never ever too quick to run up Spade nor the first one to vote Spade ever. As well Spade makes his best effort yesterday to paint Aubrey up as town appealing to her emotions instead of mine or KT who were going to be potential follow up votes there. Instead appeals to Aubrey when it's just Kop and Aubrey voting why more grooming for Aubreys f3 stand.

Aubrey between the two of us was more favored I believe coming into this f3. I town read Aubrey for a large majority of D1 and then the rest of the game. As I think a lot of other people did too, thus for me I don't see why scum me who is the hammer on Spade doesn't try harder to take f3 as me Aubrey CD which we know in that world scum wins. so why didn't I do that? like this is the big motivator right I had the choice and I choose this f3 where if I'm scum I should see as this being a more difficult win. Why does Scum!Hawk do this so willingly when a calculated game plan is that lynching Kop puts scumteam at a much larger % chance to win. SCUM!HAWK WOULD HAVE BROUGHT CD INTO THIS FINAL 3 INSTEAD OF KOP EVERYTIME. I had the chance to change my vote. I had the chance to not reason with KT and get him to switch to Spade which made more sense. I had the chance to just wait for CD to hammer.

I didnt. I'm town Kop.



Also as an a side. I have had a very rough weekend. And it may be affecting my game play so I'm sorry if at any point I sound or look funny. I had a really bad scare with a close family member of mine so I may not be in the best state of mind to take this f3 slowly with a lot of analysis and a fine tooth comb.

[Aubrey]

writing this real quickly before I head off to work.

--

I don't care to engage in a broken record battle Hawk. At a quick glance, everything in your post above is just a recap of your attacks against me without regarding any of my own attacks, defenses, or posed questions. You're now coming off as a info commercial that is trying to get stuck in the back of the minds of the target audience.

Aubrey I can draw this up 100 different ways but I don't see a way to convince Kop that you are scum. I also don't see you making very many proactive plays to paint me as scum simple reversal of my claims and small points at my fairly sloppy town play.

And you think I can convince Kop you're scum? Please. I'm hoping that he votes you just as much as you're hoping he votes me at this point. I can't convince him of anything really. Especially since I have no idea where his mind state is.

I've been fairly proactive against you, I'm just not repeating myself all that much. You attacked me, and I defended and attacked you. That's how it works when you are the second one to argue back. Also I've mostly been waiting for Kop to come in. There isn't much point in engaging heavily with you since all your going to do is flip anything I say to make yourself look better, or in this case basically ignore anything I say and repeat yourself. That being said since Kop won't come in and engage with us much, all I can do is engage with you.

Aubrey between the two of us was more favored I believe coming into this f3.

LOL just switch out my name for your name, and this will be exactly what I thought when I came on the first day and saw you for what you really were.

SCUM!HAWK WOULD HAVE BROUGHT CD INTO THIS FINAL 3 INSTEAD OF KOP EVERYTIME.

I've already mentioned this, but just so it is clear.

AND SCUM!AUBREY WOULD HAVE BROUGHT CD INTO THIS FINAL 3 INSTEAD OF KOP EVERY TIME. PLEASE REFER BACK TO MY EQUATION.

Also as an a side. I have had a very rough weekend. And it may be affecting my game play so I'm sorry if at any point I sound or look funny. I had a really bad scare with a close family member of mine so I may not be in the best state of mind to take this f3 slowly with a lot of analysis and a fine tooth comb.

I do hope everything is stable now, and things get to looking better. You maybe scum, but I think you're a cool guy.

[The MM]

Still no vote changed. But IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!

---

Votecount

Not Voting (1):

Kop

Aubrey (1):

Hawk

Hawk (1):

Aubrey

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline in: (expired on 2017-02-12 21:30:00)

[Kop]

@Hawk confirmation bias much?? Did you check out the very first sentence on my Mala read?

Mala - Scum Lean (keeping aside Post 522)

I didn't know what to make of the breadcrumb issue, didn't clearly understand Mala's response to it and everyone seemed to think it was a bad idea. So I 'kept that aside' from my read. I gave a scumlean way before Kain claimed Vig. How is this being opportunistic? Also unlike everyone else I dont believe exposing breadcrumbs is anti-town.

Also explain to me how I am distancing myself from Aelin? She is clearly dragging me down with her. I have been calling her out on her convenient scumread from the start.

Hawk I am starting to really not like you. You simply used Alisae's argument,Post 555 against me. Your breadcrumb issue was already explained in detail by Kop and bang. Do you not have any original thoughts or arguments??

Also, what is the deal with everyone about my reads.
Scum - Aelin, Mala
Scum leaning - Alisae, hawk
NULL -IV, CD, bang, Lil
Town - Aubrey, Kop, Kain
Expected CD to be defensive against my accusations. He simply didn't care. Quite indifferent throughout the game.
VOTE: Aelin

I think this was the last post that contained reads.

He's posted scum leaning on Hawk, and town reads Aubrey.

In this world, this is before Spade is probably heavily suspected, but in the run up to his lynch, he Spade claims to be doubting his reads (at this point, the lynch is on a knifeedge).
He's scum leaning on Hawk, in the second from last post with info, he is throwing shade at Hawk.

Am I thinking this is possible distancing in hoping that "why would Spade throw something at hawk knowing fine well he isn't going to make it to LYLO?"

Spade never mentions anything about Aubrey who in the run up, was fine with lynching either, Spade only appealed to her claiming that I was faking it, and who does he think is scum, throwing a tiny bit of shade in his direction.

Hawk makes very good points, that points me into voting Aubrey, but then when I look at the quotes I posted earlier to Hawk, that points me to vote for Hawk.

We can rehash the entire last few pages, wash it, repost it, it's going to get no further forward into who I think is scum. I think I'm almost ready to make a decision but I'm fearing that it's going to be the wrong one.

[Aubrey]

Who are you thinking about voting? You're keeping it rather ambiguous. It seems to me your mind is made up, but your just scared to make the final call.

[Kop]

im leaning towards yourself.

[Aubrey]

Well that's disappointing to read.

[Kop]

Aubrey.

You were the one that suggested the claim to come out, Spade claimed, why did you go straight for Spade after I counter claimed?

I understand that we had the shot at either, but you didn't seem to consider the fact that lynching scum should have been the best solution, you struck me as you weren't bothered who we lynched because of the shot.

Why weren't you seeming to be willing to look beyond we have got scum either way.

[Aubrey]

I didn't care all that much, as you said. We were guaranteed a scum kill, and I had what I felt at the time were strong reads. I felt certain CD was scum (go back and reread my arguments against him), and knew one of you or spade were scum. I was pretty much set in my thoughts. I went for Spade because he was the first to get voted (by you), and I felt as if he had a better chance at flipping scum as I mentioned later when I was asked/implored to vote you by Hawk. The only issue I had with you were your short bursts of activity, and that isn't exactly scummy.

[Hawk]

Okay how about this since CD isn't going to vote Spade. Aubrey will you vote Kop since it doesn't matter which one we lynch?

Implored? little strong of a word to use for this quote Aubrey. I asked you because until KT came on Spade wasn't getting lynched because CD wouldn't hammer. and at the time KT was no where to be seen.

[Hawk]

Also yeah you were fairly confident in CD. You convinced me but I was also 100% sold you were town... But besides that intereatingly enough you called for the BRC to come out after and if there was a CC lynch one and have CD take appropriate measures afterwords. Well if you call it up, vote and lynch Spade despite the CC you setup a pretty swift setup for you to go to f3 right?

I mean even if you don't have an indication of who the BRC is than here are the possible outcomes

I CC, lynch Spade, shoot one or the other. I townread you in f3. scum team win.

Kop CC's scenario we are in.

CD CC's, at this point I actually think you don't lynch Spade and just force against the CC because you just setup the nice reason why CD is scum so you say he's probably trying to take a lynch here so we don't lynch his buddy vehemently stand with Spade as the real claim and we mislynch shoot Spade cause CC is wrong and we are here again.

This assumes some things but since I know you're scum at this point I'm just drawing natural conclusions.

[Kop]

I didn't care all that much, as you said. We were guaranteed a scum kill, and I had what I felt at the time were strong reads. I felt certain CD was scum (go back and reread my arguments against him), and knew one of you or spade were scum. I was pretty much set in my thoughts. I went for Spade because he was the first to get voted (by you), and I felt as if he had a better chance at flipping scum as I mentioned later when I was asked/implored to vote you by Hawk. The only issue I had with you were your short bursts of activity, and that isn't exactly scummy.

I understand what you mean.

Let me get this straight because this is convincing me differently.

In the other scenario, if you got me lynched I obviously flip brc, KT shoots Spade, scum shoot Spade, that leaves 2 Vts and a Goon, you would actually have enough traction to have cd lynched.

You could have easily lynched me when I was in hammer range. This would point to hawk because hawk couldn't hammer me because he was already on my wagon.

Hmmm.

[Kop]

Obviously hawk has mentioned that scenario but I think I read it as talk of setting up the counter claims. I'm tired right now so do forgive me if I'm speaking in scenarios already mentioned it's just not processing correctly.

[Hawk]

I did. I unvoted you when CD put up intent to hammer... I could have just left it there if I was scum... and implored us to reason some more and for you to appeal to KT instead of me because I thought it was CD Spade. Also of note since it's important Aubrey did have a chance to hammer here but I unvoted about 4 hours later so I don't know if Aubrey had a chance to hammer. she could have at some point in there. But I also didn't have to unvote, could a just waited for Aubrey or CD to hammer you right?

[Kop]

I did. I unvoted you when CD put up intent to hammer... I could have just left it there if I was scum... and implored us to reason some more and for you to appeal to KT instead of me because I thought it was CD Spade. Also of note since it's important Aubrey did have a chance to hammer here but I unvoted about 4 hours later so I don't know if Aubrey had a chance to hammer. she could have at some point in there. But I also didn't have to unvote, could a just waited for Aubrey or CD to hammer you right?

That makes sense.

[Kop]

@Aubrey final question before I make my decision.

Can you provide a case to why I should lynch Hawk ahead of you, and excluding the revokes to the case he made against you the previous few pages.

[Aubrey]

im getting rather burnt out Kop. I've made my case and appeals. I don't really feel like plucking Hawks scummy victimized Cupid arrows out of your behind. I had the chance to lynch you yesterday. It was available. I abstained cause I still preferred Spade as mentioned, and by waiting it out a bit Spade was lynched over you. Even though I didn't exactly care which of you was lynched, I still had my preferred option.

Hawk was probably scared I'd have a change of heart if he bought cd myself and him to the finale because it could look like a obvious setup. We've lynched inactive and scummy players before who were town. Furthermore Hawk has been the golden child this game vs. myself who has been a avid pusher for lynches that didn't turn out so well in the end until Spade. Hawks pleas of being in the worse position between he and I were overdramatic and inaccurate. A lot of his emotional pleas for you to believe him have been over dramatic as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not going to stoop to begging and pleading. If I'm lynched, then Hawk deserves his win. He's worked his lil butt off for it. If you have any other questions I'll be glad to answer.

[Kop]

VOTE: Hawk

I've gone round in circles in regards to all of this, I've read everybodies ISO apart from the mods, and looked for things that could have helped me make my decision.

Hawk if it's the bad call, Accept my sincerest apologies for getting it wrong. To the dead town, if I've cost you the game, I am sorry.

[Kop]

Also to add if it is the wrong decision, I feel bad because you put all that effort into making those posts, and putting valuable time in and for me to throw it away. Honestly I hate being in LYLO because of this.

[Aubrey]

Wow I was expecting to lose this game at the tail end. Hawk, that was an excellent battle. Kop, I'd never want to be in your position as King maker. But I'm afraid...you didn't pick correctly.



This has been a fun game.

Don't let my sloppy town play be a town loss here. Vote Aubrey.

Your play alone was not what cost the town this game at all. Don't put the blame on yourself. If anything your play is what some people should try and emulate more.

[Aubrey]

What made you choose Hawk over me out of curiosity?

[Kop]

I went with my head and some of the points I made earlier, and just went with my head.

Hawk if Aubrey isn't trolling me, I'm really sorry for doubting you. Honestly I feel terrible now.

Sorry town.