Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[drealmerz7]

nah, prism, you weren't that bad at all, not even close

though some of your trolling was over-the-top scummy and not cool

I was a FFFFail (:

[Nachomamma8]

I guess my point wasn't that you wouldn't be playing a bad scumgame (I guess...), just a hilariously absurd one.
Granted, you played a hilariously absurd town game, but......

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh it's already planned out

Guilty Child treestump because Inno child treestump is OP

Fate is going to be the Treestump for literally making me almost cry for pissing away all the hard work and actually playing probably my #1 town game to the point where I even got WIFOM correct.

My Revenge is against Fate and it'll be held in my Loony Bin! Screw that mansion crap, ya'll fucked up in the head and need to be....Evaluated

[Aeronaut]

Final Summary, etc!

For your enjoyment:
Scumtopic- (will open if its OK)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=69772
Mastina's Hood:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70136
Prism's Hood (gods if only someone had been listening in!):
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70147
Draft Thread
- me and Pine got too real here, so we are gonna keep it closed.

Spoiler: Night Actions:

Night 1

TheRealGin-N-Tonic targeted Aeronaut. (This is a Recon-Targeting)
mastina targeted TheRealGin-N-Tonic in twilight to setup a 'Hood.
Monokuma gave Watch to SirCakez
SirCakez killed Nachomamma8 (no effect)
Aeronaut targeted mastina (JK- no effect)
Nachomamma8 hid behind Katsuki and died.

Night 2

TheRealGin-N-Tonic targeted Aeronaut and got results
Prism targeted Fate in twilight and opened a 'Hood
Monokuma gave BPV to Gin
SirCakez watched Gin
Aeronaut killed Mastina (Strongarm-Kill)

Night 3

Monokuma gave Tracker to SirCakez
SirCakez killed Monokuma

Night 4

SirCakez Targeted TheRealGin-N-Tonic, but BPV

Night 5

SirCakez killed Prism

-----------------------

Spoiler: my notes

So, Of course- this was a troll game, and advertised as suchh, so screw the haters!
But I always say- any game that makes it to Lylo with just one scum left is balanced. QED.

Anyway- my thoughts were this:
1. I consider 2x 1-shot abilities to be about the same as a single unlimited, maybe weaker.
Why? They are stronger cuz it takes two kills to nullify, but weaker because its only 2-shot.
Also, weaker cuz counterclaim comfusion, like here.. but stronger cuz confirmation with flip.

Given that, we had
Inventor
Eavesdropper
Hider
Vengeful
Neighborizor.

For me, the Neighborizor is not a powerful role, it can go either way, and it was in place to offer false guilties to the eavesdropper.
The Eavesdropper could be countered by PLAY alone.. so it's scum-counter was the ROLECOP. Once scum KNOWS it exists.. they can play around it. They didn't do so here.. but that is not a balance issue.
Inventor is also a weak role, because it can go like it did here.. with abilities to scum. No real counter needed, although the Strongarm Kill counters the BPV.

2. I explicitly stated that I balanced AGAINST the scum-abilities.. not the other way around, as is typical. Which is why I think inclusion of a Hider/Tracker/Watcher set was fair. The combination is no more powerful than a single sane unlimited cop, IMO..
THough again.. how it played out, none of those were significant.. other than Nacho.
There was some debate about resolution of nacho's death.. but I think it is the same no matter how I slice it.
Either the hiding kills him.. or he DOESN'T HIDE, right? and he is killed by the nightkill. . .and same result.
I guess he could successfully hide..and avoid the kill, and NOT reflexively die.. I will think about that in the future.. but I think it is TOO non-normal. The Godfather role is already non-normal.. but it is well-known enough that it makes sense.. to the extent that Cop-Innocents are always questioned. I'm not sure it is the same with Hider-Innocents.. so I think that would be TOO MUCH, unless the Hider Role PM had some statement about this, which mine did not!

Lastly- My bad with Jin/ Gin.
JIN was in Hunger Games.. whereas GIN was in under an alt or something... so he was not really on my radar as a nickname. So when Pine said "Gin, I scanned the playerlist and saw Jin... and
Luckily Katsuki made good on that.

ALso--

SORRY for being such a shitty mod so many times.
Im traveling.. I didnt expect this game to open so quickly...but it is what it is.

I screwed up JIN/GIN.
I screwed up an entire day of votecounts. which would have seen Fate dead earlier.. and probably a town win.
I misflipped Mastina..

/Sigh.
I will improve.

I thought you were great!

I don't really think I have too many comments on the game itself.

Ari, Gin, mastina, Nacho all played extremely well. Katsuki did the best with what they had.

Aero played really well despite me thinking they were PoE mafia most of Day 1, to the extent that I wanted to keep them around if only because of A+ content.

Didn't you say you townread me most of the game though?

Specifically @Aero all of your interactions with me Day 1 pointed to you being mafia, in that your confusion but lack of stances/further inquiry into my strange play I thought was pretty bad. Your reads list+stance with the block read like you knew that town had a solid bloc and felt like your best chance was just rolling with it-and this turned out to be exactly the case.

I mean, I asked the scumteam if they wanted me to lynch you, and they were eh about it, so that's probably why I didn't really commit to it. Most of your stuff on day 1 wasn't doing a whole lot to solve much from my persepctive, and even if it was I probably could paint it that way

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

literally making me almost cry

No hard feelings, I mean that, but I think this is grounds for my revenge seeking needs

[drealmerz7]

gin, sorting WIFOM is WHERE THE GAME IS AT

[Aeronaut]

Those are hemlock scales.

Yes, I know the difference between pine and hemlock at a glance.

Oh, right, commentary on scum deaths.

Katsuki did the best he could with what he was handed. Honestly, surviving D1 was an accomplishment after replacing that slot. Boffo.

Aeronaut got caught out on a guilty. Guilties are guilties, not much you can do about them. He threw off a respectable amount of WIFOM before going down. Nicely played.

Well, if I had looked more town, then I probably wouldn't have been caught so red handed! Also, I think my actual big blunder there was just not realizing Gin's PR and coming in and saying "Hey so who should we murder!!"

Aeronaut got caught out on a guilty.

Didn't help that he botched his fakeclaim.
I did so much love watching that.
And was laughing oh so hardcore, going, "YES! YES! IT WORKED! ONE OF MY PLANS ACTUALLY FUCKING WORKED!!!"
It was a glorious day.
A beautiful, bloodthirsty day, full of righteousness and justice.

Alas.

Yeah, you conned me good! Like, I thought I was so smart and manipulative strewing those backup crumbs out the whole game, but you fakeclaiming that was fantastic. Like, fantastic.

[Prism]

nah, prism, you weren't that bad at all, not even close

though some of your trolling was over-the-top scummy and not cool

I was a FFFFail (:

Not really, I failed to pick up on mastina lying as town which cost me heavily Day 1. I let you get liability lynched even though I thought there was basically no chance you were mafia unless you were going for some next level shit. (I even remember making a post in my PT about that then going "Oh but MAYBE MAYBEEEEEE OKAY 40% CHANCE")

And then with Vax/Cakez I thought it was a done deal and that I'd face one of them in 4 way. Not the case, I died unexpectedly over Gin, and didn't get to talk with Fate over it as I intended.

I guess my point wasn't that you wouldn't be playing a bad scumgame (I guess...), just a hilariously absurd one.
Granted, you played a hilariously absurd town game, but......

After 7 years and counting of mafia I've gotten really bored of playing standard. Absurd games as both alignments happen but town ones happen a bit more often (Probably about twice as likely).

I've tried to restrain myself pretty hard on MS but my tendency to go way out of the box, and out of reason, really shined through here much to my regret.

P-Edit:

Didn't you say you townread me most of the game though?

I liked your early posts but after I got Nacho town+saw your response to the jam session I started scumreading you. I really wanted you to be town just because I liked your content in an objective sense, and when I started going off the rails from Mastina I threw you in the lean town pile out of hope.

I mean, I asked the scumteam if they wanted me to lynch you, and they were eh about it, so that's probably why I didn't really commit to it. Most of your stuff on day 1 wasn't doing a whole lot to solve much from my persepctive, and even if it was I probably could paint it that way

Misunderstanding my intent. I think I played like complete shit. I'm just saying what I scumread in case you find it helpful in the future.

[Aristophanes]

literally making me almost cry

No hard feelings, I mean that, but I think this is grounds for my revenge seeking needs

<3
Gin, you were fantastic this game!

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, I had a really fun time playing this game, it's probably up there as one of my all time favorites. I'd like to think I may have survived longer had gin not gotten that guilty, but c'est la vie. Either way, this game was full of characters and was just a blast.

[Prism]

Basically everything from Day 1, jam session on, was me just throwing up my hands and embracing the troll life. My mind was "These people are probably town but

it makes sense no other way

so it has to be them" and so I hopped on the crazy train and rode it until things started making sense with Mastina being confirmed town Day 2.

Mastina gambit was great it just fucked me because I knew she was lying but didn't make the connection that it was town.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Prism, remember when "I got drunk and yelled at you"

Yeah I was totally sober and AtE'd the fuck out of it to gain town reads

[Prism]

I actually scumread those and didn't get you as town again until a few days later goddamnit

[drealmerz7]

I think you can sense deceptions as well

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You kept asking me how I scum read or town read you and I had no clue actually. I never answered because I actually didn't have an answer.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay dreal, million dollar question, what happened when you learned I was town?

[drealmerz7]

oh I was figuring you for town before I died

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

oh I was figuring you for town before I died

[Katsuki]

disagree on that point
he had cakez dead to right for 4 days straight, had an opportunity to be the hero, whiffed.

LYLO is different tho, you have to reconsider. Town's fault for not listening to Fate sooner.

[drealmerz7]

get gin to not like every single one of my responses in this game:

check!

jk

but seriously, you were really scummy and I couldn't get the tunnel off even when it was tempered with "well I'm probably wrong and he's probably just town"

you were fucking with all of my reads, really

[Prism]

You kept asking me how I scum read or town read you and I had no clue actually. I never answered because I actually didn't have an answer.

I mean, I understood why and had you as solid town going into N1. Nacho said it pretty well-my Day 1 was just fucking absurd, even if purposely so, and I'll readily admit I do that much more frequently as town.

The second mastina claimed it went through with you I was set for the rest of the game. We were largely on the same page from there. I had Mono town, you town, drealm town, Fate town, and Ari lean town. I just 0 efforted from there which was stupid as hell and lost us the game almost singlehandedly, because I never bothered to reread Drealm and just was like "eh why do I townread this guy again idk let's liability lynch him" and failed to try and persuade Fate of anything.

[Katsuki]

Well, if I had looked more town, then I probably wouldn't have been caught so red handed! Also, I think my actual big blunder there was just not realizing Gin's PR and coming in and saying "Hey so who should we murder!!"

That made this win all the better to be honest. Could not have made a more incriminating post if you tried.

[Prism]

Any post you made was basically a scumclaim, didn't matter what the contents were. If you're a neighbor you're going to get forced to out the other that day, which you couldn't have done.

That one was actually the best one possible because it could be read as implying SC was town, and Fate picked up on exactly that.

[Pine]

Also, can I say that I

really really

loved just trolling this game?

[mastina]

I really, really loved seeing through a lot of your trolling and decimating the scumteam!

Alas, it was not to be.