Fire Emblem: Heroes of Mafia [Game Over]

[Gammagooey]

Hay!

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Gammagooey]

this counterwagon tho

VOTE: NotRadiantCowbells

[Gammagooey]

YOU'RE a very bad post

[Gammagooey]

Gamma + Fire Assassin = ?

if you actually think i'd make that post as scum with fire as my scumbuddy instead of just peacing out for a bit and coming back later you're real bad at this game

[Gammagooey]

you just gotta play marathon games vax

you can do it for real there just by who's being awkward sometimes, it's pretty glorious

[Gammagooey]

sup desp

[Gammagooey]

@Desp- seemed like where he was going with it

like i don't really see how that sentence makes sense otherwise

[Gammagooey]

dunn why are you voting PZ?

[Gammagooey]

i was more trying to make a counterwagon for dumb reasons than saying a counterwagon existed before i voted

notRC's first post felt pretty arrogant (though part of that is probably my previous experiences with RC) and I saw a silly reason to vote him for it with GiF voting him a bit before I did

[Gammagooey]

all of vax's posts on page 4 do seem kinda bad

It's at least better than what i'm doing now anyway

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Gammagooey]

I liked super's post egging boonskies on

it felt like he made it without giving a shit about what other people would think of him for doing it which is pretty damn good as far as early stuff goes

[Gammagooey]

Zito the game's prooobably going to be garbage for a bit until everyone gets in and has at least one whole useful opinion

I like my Vax vote a little better than voting ThinkBig but if you want me to move over I can do that too.

[Gammagooey]

@Zito-Like the only person I'm decently confident in not being scum is super since I think he'd be acting a lot more conservative with his reads+posting here if he was, and he's also the biggest wagon and I don't know why anyone on his wagon is actually voting him. (it might be that one person had an actual reason out of the 4 on him but if so I don't remember it)

I liked boon's reaction to desp and I think Frogger, and desp feels like desp-town that I've seen before but both of those are early game things I wouldn't be thaaat surprised if I were wrong about. and then GiF was voting people around the same time that I was thinking that the people who he was voting were making garbage posts but that's not an actual reason for him to be town.

vax has the worst posts out of anyone in the game atm and thinkbig and mala haven't done anything that isn't early-game bullshit

that's pretty much all the thoughts i have right now

@vax-yeah one sec, it'll be in my next post

[Gammagooey]

I was going to vote Gif, but Dunn replacing Frie Assassin?

VOTE: Dunn

Geez, I was just playing earlier.

I cant really do anything else

All these felt like cop-outs/excuses as to why you were doing what you were, and I think that scum usually tend to be more self-conscious about their own posts and try to give reasons for what they're doing even when they don't really need to explain anything, and these all fit that pretty well.

[Gammagooey]

tbf that's because most of the other posts in the game are meaningless bullshit alignment-wise

like nobody's CONF-SCUM-4-LIFE this early.

[Gammagooey]

This isn't a particularly strong scum read but I think it's the best thing I can be doing right now

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

For everyone on the ThinkBig wagon - through *magic*, I've found that he's V/LA is until monday. If he doesn't come out swinging after that, I'll help dogpile him into the ground but I'd rather have something interesting happen over the weekend instead of the game just stalling out until then.

[Gammagooey]

Hello! I started reading yesterday as I was in the replacement queue. Finished page 11 this morning. Y'all need more wagons, but I think Chara's a pretty safe bet for town. By most recent VC it seems something has changed but w/e. The run up on Vax seems really forced, which is strange because the runup on Dunnstral was done really well. I think I'm going to look for the differences in those when I finish reading.

Other than that, has Peregrine V contributed anything to this game other than a vote on someone who had yet to post?

most of the interesting vax stuff is 1-2 pages after where you stopped.

Pere has exceeded my expectations of him by seeming genuine when he said he had basically no reads yet at all but before you go on about it I know this is a profoundly stupid reason to townread him but I kind of do. We're just about at the point where interesting stuff is starting to happen though so there'll either actually be more things coming from him soon or more likely there won't be and everyone can shrug about it and he'll get lynched eventually anyway.

[Gammagooey]

Also @Aj- If you think we need more wagons why didn't you vote anyone?

[Gammagooey]

Hey GIF, can I get your strongest read atm? Or one that you think is really different from what most people are reading a player as? Your presence in-thread isn't that bad but your reads are literally non-existent here.

Boon's post isn't a big alignment tell imo but I do like his scumreads on it. The only thing that I'd consider sketch about it is that he said that he was prob wrong about both me and vax leaning town, which is a reeeally easy thing to say if he wants to cover his ass for a potential vax scumflip later.

[Gammagooey]

Dunn is town probs

why tho

@Boon- If you think one of me/vax is likely going to turn out to be scum, why are either of us being townread? Like there are two scumteams, i don't see how one of us being town or scum would mean the other would be the opposite.

[Gammagooey]

uuuugh meta

Is there any reason why you think Dunn wouldn't play slightly differently given that you're in another game with him and/or because the game is multiball?

[Gammagooey]

actually @boon i have a better question

Why is the combination of me+vax as both town unlikely to you?

[Gammagooey]

what about thissss post vifam

well, the last post was a lie, i don't want to lynch dunn. i was hoping for a snappy response from Vax.

how does it make you feel

[Gammagooey]

i thought it looked like town trying something to get something useful. i could see it just being p. null too but i don't really get why you think it's weird

[Gammagooey]

Just realizing that a kind-of-sort-of-gambit failed and walking away from it seems pretty fine to me.

do you have an opinion on GIF?

[Gammagooey]

read over some past chara stuff but not some of the stuff that's happened in the last day or so - I had missed the point someone brought up of vax saying he was voting specifically because of an earlier vote change when not chara asked, but I still don't think it's that outlandish that chara would want to know why vax thought the fast vote change was scummy in the first place. given all the words atm i may very well be bitching about something that's kind of moved past already but whatever, ill be back to read the rest tonight

[Gammagooey]

also cabd's off his game, my gawd

[Gammagooey]

@Chara- what is the one thing in the game you are most sure of atm?

actually @boon i have a better question

Why is the combination of me+vax as both town unlikely to you?

boon you never answered this

I'm scumreading PV a lot more.

It's mutual, so that's good.

why

VOTE: ThinkBig

i am done reading though so if anyone would like an explanation why this post is kind of stupid ask me wednesday or something

[Gammagooey]

The claims pretty not-alignment-relevant. I May have voted him because I expected him to just flake away into the night instead of actually posting until tomorrow or later though

VOTE: PeregrineV

im helping

[Gammagooey]

yeah. it's not GOOD, but if he's here literally now there'll be better shit to read him with than a claim by tomorrow morning so i'm not gonna worry about it tonight.

it is actually kind of testable since it's all actions but that testing has nothing to do with the alignment behind the role so shrug

[Gammagooey]

actually @boon i have a better question

Why is the combination of me+vax as both town unlikely to you?

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

[Gammagooey]

words

It's mutual, so that's good.

why

15 "questions" to people, but no follow up on any answers, if they were answered.
6 votes on six different players
Calling posts and pages bad, while defending other posts that are called bad.
More of the same.

aside from the no followup answers since i feel that's pretty self-explanatory

why do you think the other things are more likely to come from scum than town?

[Gammagooey]

I'll prob hammer TB lateish tonight if nobody else has by then, losing the orb PM is stupid but pretty null imo but disappearing after saying he was rereading after the first V/LA and then focusing so much on their own claim and doing nothing that I can see with what they read from earlier in the game is more likely to be coming from scum than town I think. The 'Perhaps' I got the claiming super early idea from my old site thing feels like he was just trying to find an excuse for what he did that he hoped someone would buy than an a real explanation of 'I messed up but this is why' too.

Give me like an hour and a half and I'll be less of a shitlord during my lunch break, I want to say some stuff about Pere in particular too.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma get in here.

Gamma get in here.

i'm around but i still have like 30 min before i can do more than bounce back between this and other stuff, whatcha need

[Gammagooey]

Gamma get in here.

Gamma get in here.

i'm around but i still have like 30 min before i can do more than bounce back between this and other stuff, whatcha need

Vote thinkbig so we can get a hammer and I can start transferring funds for vig shots.

no i have THINGS TO SAY that probably aren't that important but i wanna say them anyway and i need a sec to actually put the words together

soon tho

[Gammagooey]

So I don't like Pere's turnaround on Zito when he was jokey towards him and voting with him right before and as far as I can tell had no scum-read on him before that, especially since despite his reasons of things he's scumreading zito for being 'obvious' enough to him that scum are more likely to do that he's talking down to me when I ask him about it.

The worst thing imo is the sudden talking down to me and this part of the post he made about it here:

15 "questions" to people, but no follow up on any answers, if they were answered.
6 votes on six different players
Calling posts and pages bad, while defending other posts that are called bad.
More of the same.

I really, really dislike that he's trying to paint everything that Zito's doing in a negative light with the scare quotes around questions there - I think that a lot of scum try to push the rest of the game into seeing things their way by making it seem like it's super obvious that they're right and the other person is wrong, or by implying that everything that another player is doing is scummy even when it's just part of typical play by doing insinuations like what Pere did there - that even though the main part of the point he's making is that zito didn't follow up on the questions he asked, he's implying that the things he asked were fake, scummy questions and even that generally normal part of play makes him more likely to be scum and everyone else should think that.

Like I know the above isn't worded perfectly but I really think that sort of manipulative pushing of "i'm going to imply that this is scummy and obviously everyone should agree with me by how I'm saying it" is something that's way more likely to come from scum than town.

I'm about to head into a meeting and want to leave everything alone until I get out in case anyone doesn't get wtf I'm trying to say here and wants to ask me about it, but I'll be voting TB afterwards. (prob around an hour)

[Gammagooey]

nah i got dis zito

VOTE: ThinkBig

frogfriend you're up

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Gammagooey]

stop that

let's just have some nice iso reading and chill

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Not Chara

I'm quite sure BS fake dumbslipped

about what? and if NC is scum I'd def. guess blue over red, I can see the reasoning of 'Brian thought chara would get lynched eventually so he wanted to pre-emptively push on someone else for defending them' but i feel like that would bring way more attention to Brian after a chara scum flip and a more-likely-than-not AJ town flip than would be good for him.

I do agree with dunn that GIF is the best guess for red-scum given brian's iso but I don't think BS's partner distancing or being someone with minimal/no interactions with him is particularly unlikely either.

also agree with Vifam that super was p. damn town

[Gammagooey]

I have something similar to a gut town read on Not Chara but really I think it's mostly that everything I think people are scumreading them for is null and I like the overall tone of their posts. Like the only thing I'd say is straight bad is them not really existing at the end of the day right after having a wagon on them.

[Gammagooey]

I think his demeanor change to suddenly trying to imply how obvious it is that zito is scum and how bad i am for being on MS for a billion years and not immediately seeing that the things zito did were scummy for *reasons* (and imo he still didn't really say why they're MORE likely to be coming from scum than town, just why they make sense for scum to do, but that's not really relevant to his alignment) is really unnatural.

[Gammagooey]

like PV going back after zito said he was scumreading him and forming a scumread on him right afterwards is a little gross but I could see coming from either alignment. The added on pushing of how clear it was when he was voting with zito just a bit before feels manipulative and like he's trying to push what he's saying onto the game instead of actually try to convince people.

[Gammagooey]

wait wait holy shit is this actually exactly the thing that I got him lynched for in harry potter mafia

i was scum there with him to be fair so you can argue that I was negatively reading into his play for whatever he was doing even if it was a null-tell but seriously this feels astoundingly gross, one sec

[Gammagooey]

it's locked so the quotes are a bit funky but here, starting with a piece of viewtopic.php?p=5893370#p5893370:

-what was your read on sns when you voted him
-what is your current read on LML
-and why for both

2 reasons for sns vote. One was the lurking. Sure, more often then not it catches town. But, combine with the posting elsewhere, it's a big scum indicator.
Lee showed up and commenced to play. He claimed and was posting coherently, so he's obviously not lurking, so no reason to keep voting him.

My current read on Lee is town.

Don't like Pere's answer to why he unvoted LML when I would really think he's smart enough to a)realize that I want him to answer to get a read on his alignment and wanted what his read was at the time I actually asked it and I don't like the stupid last sentence that technically answers the question while trying to imply that it was dumb to ask it in the first place
and b)that if a player not posting while posting in other games is actually a scum indicator then it doesn't make sense to unvote someone because their replacement stopped doing it, ESPECIALLY when he didn't vote anyone else while unvoting LML.

I really think Pere is the best lynch today.

[Gammagooey]

i might dig up some more when i get back, gotta leave to go play board games

also sorry for consecu-posting a bit but seriously pere's posts feel real real gross and I think this is the most solid thing to go on in the whole game atm

[Gammagooey]

Two more minor things about Harry Potter mafia mentioned above about Pere

-The kind of manipulative pushing/implication thing quoted was actually pretty minor in terms of what got him lynched compared to him just not putting any effort into scumhunting
-Desp apparently had a lot of games played with Pere before that (I think I've had a decent amount too at this point but I think all but maybe 1 were seeing him as scum) and had him as a scumread but wound up tunneling on town that day until Pere got run up and self-hammered.

Desp do you have an opinion on Pere here?

[Gammagooey]

Meanwhile, I fully expect more posts from Gamma explaining how we were scum in another game together, and how that equates to anything in this game.

i literally just posted like 6 times in a row with a explanation and a quote of exactly what i was referring to

but yeah implying that whatever I posted against you isn't good enough and is trying to imply that it's scummy after skimming it is fine too

[Gammagooey]

Ok, I'm caught up.

I think we need to clear up the whole Not Chara dance with a noose today. From the iso my opinion is that he wasn't buddies with Dunn or PV. Beyond that he didn't leave much else. But the Prince Lyon/Not Chara stuff really stands out. Chara's completely unprompted roleblock claim stinks.


VOTE: Not Chara

I will admittedly be not horrifically shocked if NC turns out to be scum, but please read over what I just said about PV and give me your opinion on it? Like I really think that the type of pushing to impose and imply opinions on the game instead of convincing people is way more likely to be coming from scum and as much as meta is garbage there's another instance of him specifically doing it as scum too.

[Gammagooey]

I think the point is that you were scum there and you're playing in the same kind of manner, doesn't really matter what alignment Gamma was

Then that's stupid. His reads on me were fake, because we were scum together. If he wants to say "look how good my fake reads on PeregrineV were", then logic dictates that I point out that fake reads are not the same as real reads.

If you want to claim they are, then explain it to where I get it.

ignore that it was a thing in a previous game for a sec

I think that people that try to push their opinions by implying how obvious their opinions SHOULD be by the tone of their posts and by deriding/insulting other player's comments and questions in the game are more likely to be scum trying to push the perceptions of other players in a direction they'd like than them being town generally being asshats and trying to look superior to the other players in the game.
And there are players that it's more likely to be a component of their playstyle than a scumtell for them specifically - MoI is someone who immediately comes to mind.
But I think it's a solid scumtell in general AND I've seen you do it as scum before. Us being scum together when you did it isn't really a big part of that.

[Gammagooey]

about what? and if NC is scum I'd def. guess blue over red

do we know other scum is blue? I didn't see it in the opening posts.

or is that just what you're calling them

pretty sure it's red+blue scum with town as green since those are the orb colors

AJ felt fiiiine from what I remember of him yesterday but I could probably use a reread of his stuff near the end of the day. He is obv not red scum given him+Brian's interactions though.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Not Chara

sorry for dicking around on PV for a while I guess but I really think he should die soon too

[Gammagooey]

whoooooosh

Gamma my vote is yours tomorrow bud, we'll do w/e you want.

<3 <3 <3

[Gammagooey]

just pretend that i'm saying all the things zito is for the purposes of this conversation, getting to actually use something good twice is a pretty good benefit

and this game is semi-randomly generated already, let's not go into rolezzzzzzzzzzzzz when there's pretty clearly more important stuff to read chara with here

[Gammagooey]

just pretend that i'm saying all the things zito is for the purposes of this conversation, getting to actually use something good twice is a pretty good benefit

and this game is semi-randomly generated already, let's not go into rolezzzzzzzzzzzzz when there's pretty clearly more important stuff to read chara with here

yes, i agree that a vig who makes a kill could use another shot

...but we're talking about players claiming they were roleblocked but were also refunded their shot which makes no goddamn sense at all

aj claimed that he got a shot back too

with vax and Brian I'd put pretty good odds on their role working like 'if you target someone but they still have all the shots of their ability, yours is still used'.

[Gammagooey]

i'm Gordon, an Altean Archer. 4 stars, white color.
i both track and watch who i target. i was roleblocked, so i don't need a shot refill because it was refunded due to failing.

Thats funny cos I'm Gordon too lol
Albeit 3 star

....why

you are like a thousand times better than your play this game

[Gammagooey]

the day's pretty obv gonna end when boon gets here

pretty colors to go with it would be nice tho

[Gammagooey]

have you seen #1441?

cause its real bad

[Gammagooey]

I think he's town

why

if gif doesn't show up and do things real soon he will have plenty of people voting him tomorrow for it
speaking of which

[Gammagooey]

making blatant contradictions is my favourite scum tactic. it works every time. refuge in audacity.

pedit: i did read it, and then forgot about reading it because i'm an idiot.

you forgetting that you had commented on multiball while making a reason for targeting Brian seems just as likely as forgetting that it was multiball altogether. esp. given that your post about why you targeted Brian was in an active thread while you had two days to go over who would be best to target during night.

can't we just lynch GiF today and let me get a report/be roleblocked?

almost definitely not.

feel free to make a case for it and post some other scumreads/strong townreads tho

[Gammagooey]

I'm alive and am capable of actually processing thoughts about things and have a solid chunk of the weekend actually free!

so I feel like everyone has said all the shit they care to about Not Chara plus nobody's getting lynched for a bit so let's talk about literally anything else

I still think Pere is more likely than anyone else in the game to be on *a* scumteam, regardless of which it is and that's the thing I feel most strongly about by far.

Vax's tone of play D2 especially felt a lot better to me than his play D1, esp. with his posting about GIF and talking to Chara and talking about the possibility of chara's role all feeling genuine. It's possible some of that might feel similar given multiball but I think at least he would have made a decision out-of-thread about whether to either attack or defend NC due to the claim and then acted on that in-thread, instead of publicly questioning whether or not the role stuff made sense in comparison to other games on site.

I've also gone through chunks of AJ's iso and I think a lot of the things people are talking/arguing with him about are just kind of non-alignment related disagreements. Like this especially I don't think is right

just lynch Aj and GiF after i die, would you?

Yep this is the plan. Aj trying to introduce a lot of white noise is ringing all the alarm bells.

theorizing on what the lone scum has to do is fine, and his comments defending himself from being scum with Brian is fine, since that was pretty much the biggest chunk of useful info in the game at the time, and yes his #1626 is word salad but none of those things make him more likely to be scum than town AND he's very obv not scum with Brian given Brian's posts attacking him and going on and on about how he thinks AJ is scum from around #823 onwards.

Last thing before I disappear for an ~hour or so, I don't think NC's wagon speed actually matters. Like you can maybe say a GIF voting lurker is more likely NC's partner, but if NC's scum the shit actually pointing to it most is them saying they targeted Brian Skies with an ability that would have done something if only they weren't roleblocked to stay alive, and then saying the reason for targeting them is a defense saying they didn't know it was multiball when they had commented on multiball super early in the game and would have thought about it if they had actually submitted an action on Brian.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: PeregrineV

hey zito, you've had a few back and forths with him but what's your actual read on desp atm?

[Gammagooey]

wait for chara to say what they did

but after that all aboard the murder train

hi vax

[Gammagooey]

Either way you should just tell us, were not gonna rush this day regardless

i agree with you in theory

but the PV blood tho

(a RL day or two makes sense i guess)

[Gammagooey]

i think that if PZ is scum he isn't soloscum but that is deep gut bullshit for the most part

if PZ was solo I do think he'd kill NC over no-killing though

[Gammagooey]

Prob just means he's lone scum

either that or pere's partner had an ability they needed to use I think

time vill tell

[Gammagooey]

desp unless you want to tell the game something magical I really don't get why you're going off into conspiracy theory land instead of just thinking that PV is scum and got blocked from doing the scum kill

[Gammagooey]

yes desp there are all the possibilities in the world woo woo woo

i don't give a shit when the simplest possibility is PV is scum and that also happens to coincide nicely with PV being obvscum

like tell me if you see literally anything that looks town in his posts from the last week or so

[Gammagooey]

@desp-i feel like that's prob from d1 bullshit and not less than a week ago because PV's play has been garbage since the actual scumhunting portion of the game started, but remind me why the posting w/r/t stuff was more likely town than scum

[Gammagooey]

yeah literally everyone but PV's been here at this point, and *most* things that would suggest an alternate reason for things other than AJ jailkept PVscum should and almost certainly would have been claimed by now

waiting for PV a bit longer to show up and post remains fine but I'm expecting him to either lurk into replacement or hug that line pretty close given what happened today and if/when that happens that deserves a thousand pounds of death.

[Gammagooey]

doctor is the main thing I was excluding from *most*

if the bulletproof actually thought PV was likely town aside from them getting shot then I'd say they'd likely claim to stop a mislynch even with a second scumteam

but also if you'll notice there is a theme to most of the things in this game and that theme is relevant to this situation

[Gammagooey]

its 1-shots everywhere. brian's role is dumb without it being the case and everything that's been claimed so far except ThinkBig's role backs that up.

[Gammagooey]

i swear why does everyone in this game hate occam's razor

like even if AJ is scum him faking his target on someone he doesn't think is scum would be retarded, and claiming a role-thing that could be disproven at this point would be retarded, so the thing that makes sense is regardless of his alignment he has either a jailkeep or a roleblock and used it on PV, and because of that and PV's play, which is always this bullshit *lurk and don't scumhunt and live way longer than he should because that's what he always does*, PV is very very very likely scum

like yes there's prob scum of whatever team PV's not on that are on the wagon but masterful scum plans of lynching PV here when he's town are stupid when there'd be a huge chance of it blowing up in the face of whoever tried it because a)rolezzzz and b)multiball

HI AJ WE'RE OCCAM'S RAZOR FRIENDS NOW

[Gammagooey]

i think he's trying to look like ThinkBig did but doesn't realize he just killed himself

[Gammagooey]

I agree with vifam here

aj felt genuine claiming and talking about pv

[Gammagooey]

@vax-i don't tie myself that close to aj if i were scum with him or have the need for him to claim a jailkeep on PV

we might want to massclaim today. a lone dunn kill is weird as fuck.

[Gammagooey]

we might want to massclaim today. a lone dunn kill is weird as fuck.

Most of us that had an ability were just one shots, but im still holding out hope someone has something more powerful.... so no. Besides, whats that going to tell us?

wtf is going on with the lone dunn kill mostly

but also this is probably the last point where lynching any type of scum every day guarantees us a win, if we go down to 6 with 3 scum still left lynching lone scum tomorrow loses the game.

[Gammagooey]

8 players->non-redscumlynch goes to 7, 2 kills to 5, both of the last two scum would need to be lynched back to back.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, who is supertown to you?

you're probably going to hate this answer but my towniest read by far is you. vifam's prob the closest aside from that, both of your play just feels right. I could maybe see vifam as scum with someone who's been left alone for most of the game but I don't think that's the case, he's been pushing to some degree or another on every player in the game for opinions.

AJ I don't think is scum either with just how big of a target claiming to have jailkept PV and claiming the action refunded in regards to Chara puts on him - like I think the only way he's scum is if he's on the big scumteam and decided to try to use his role+claim EXACTLY the way he thinks he would have used it as town and not wait and talk/strategize with his partner at all, he absolutely used his action on PV regardless of his alignment and I just don't think scum has the balls to claim the way he did in regards to AJ & Chara with no regard to how he looks afterwards and the risk of him being nightkilled by the other scumteam afterwards. Like I can see why he could be scum who played like he would as town because he can hunt for scum and claim and use his role normally b/c of multiball, but actually playing like he has been just feels suicidal in a way that scum just DON'T play as.

i know i didn't really give much detail on the reads on you+vifam but I don't really have time to go through and explain it better right now, if you want i can later tonight.

[Gammagooey]

^thats fairly likely yeah

but if it turns out that both scumteams targeted dunn because they both thought he was on the other scumteam my eyes will get so wide they'll start floating into space, and the only other explanation for only one kill is one scumteam not killing because ????? (which is a little more likely given yesterday I guess but I really don't get why either scumteam would do it at this point) or *rolestuff*

Like both scumteams killing Dunn over NC if it was scum trying to kill other scum feels really, really off.

[Gammagooey]

@Desp- Is the informed-when-shot part of your role part of the bulletproof ability, or is it a separate ability, or is it somewhere else in the role PM? With all the vax info being discussed alongside your claim its hard to tell what exactly of what you're talking about is specific to your own role and what's talking about the vax refund instead.

@Boon- you had Desp as I think the second or third lowest on your first color wheel and then at the bottom with PV on the one yesterday too, but GIF was null on the first one and then you decided to not shoot yesterday - what made you choose GIF over Dunn n1 since Dunn was I'd say a little better content-wise than GIF but still pretty much an active lurker and on the bottom of your list, and then what changed about your read on desp from n2 to n3 to make him killworthy?

[Gammagooey]

then you decided to not shoot yesterday - what made you choose GIF

^*n2, not yesterday

[Gammagooey]

Boon, Desp, do you think its possible you both found scum in each toher?

it's not that out there really

also still a better love story than twilight

[Gammagooey]

@Desp- Is the informed-when-shot part of your role part of the bulletproof ability, or is it a separate ability, or is it somewhere else in the role PM?

[Gammagooey]

please dear god slow down and condense your posts

boon you're right about most of the setup stuff I think but that's not a reason for desp to be scum here

[Gammagooey]

it looks like setup speculation bullshit? like I think you're right with how Cabd made the setup but desp being wrong about how the setup is likely made doesn't make him autoscum.

Like if you think desp is wrong about something that actually reflects on his alignment directly instead of just "he's wrong and reaching for possibilities" then separate it out for me because I can't find anything like that in the last 4 pages of noise aside from your actual claims and the vax refund comparison that i think zito made

[Gammagooey]

i'm gonna be mysterious about my reads on you and desp until the situation is slightly less clusterfucky

gave my strong/strongish townreads earlier today. do you have a reason to think im redscum aside from PoE?

And why did you think one of me/vax were scum before settling on me today? You've brought it up a lot but I don't really see why you'd be so sure one of us is scum and why you're still going with that here.

most of your posts this game has just been asking questions not giving much insight.

this isn't my greatest game but I don't really think that's true, you can go back through my iso and see pretty clearly what I feel strongly about in the game for everything except D1 I think

I can see how it could seem that way given the the quicklynch from NC to GIF when I wasn't around and PV being my strongest scumread and then getting lynched without a ton of resistance yesterday though

[Gammagooey]

Work with me here, Gamma. we both town read Vax and Aj. And you also agreed with Vifam. We basically have the same reads except I town read NC also.

If you me want to work with you can you do this for me first? Preferably into just one post.

Like if you think desp is wrong about something that actually reflects on his alignment directly instead of just "he's wrong and reaching for possibilities" then separate it out for me because I can't find anything like that in the last 4 pages of noise aside from your actual claims and the vax refund comparison that i think zito made

[Gammagooey]

Onto the Desp thing, looking back in hindsight, Desperado's Day 3 should have been completely different based on his role claim toDay. He brought up the fact that there were other possibilities for the no kill. He didn't get shot there, so that would mean there would have been one LESS possibility for him. He didn't even question the PV thing in the idea that it was a foregone conclusion for him that PV was a different case, like informed scum. Hell, he probably shot at PV, and he probably put together PV was town, knowing that from town perspective, there was no reason we shouldn't have lynched PV there. He was trying to get town cred with that. He didnt even question it. TownDesp should have been all over that.

Another thing, what happened with the 180 from yesterDay. He defends the PV, but when basically the same thing happens toDay he shoots it down. This is a contradiction of playstyle in itself and is scum orientated.

I'd agree that his insistence on PV being town despite his bulletproof being informed is odd, but I think if you put a generic town player in the same situation as desp today with the role he's claimed they'd still think you'd be more likely scum than anyone the informed unhit BP and your claim on him.

how does this make sense though?

Hell, he probably shot at PV, and he probably put together PV was town

Onto the NC wagon, he was pushing it so hard, causing that wagon to take form basically. He wasn't giving Zito the case, and really, I don't know why he scum read NC. I even asked him why, and still he didn't reply. Still hasn't. When the wagon was changed to GIF, Frogger hammered thinking he was putting him to L-1, then Desperado voted him even though Vax had stated intent to hammer. Desp lolHammered Gif basically. Didn't even know that was a thing.

From what I can see from his iso he didn't like some d1 stuff from chara and thought that they were likely scum with brian. The GIF hammer is arguably bad, but GIF's play was an enormous pile of garbage. Like, I thought GIF's tone was more likely coming from town than scum but it didn't look like he was spending more than 5 minutes in thread at a time for the entire day so I can see everyone who didn't read GIF's tone the same way wanting him ultra-dead.

Come toDay, he is just focused on himself, not even thinking about his previous reads, not open to ideas, 180'ing from his thought process on PV. He is scum.

The PV stuff is fine, everything else you're scumreading desp for is kinda ehhh. it's a RL day and a half into the game day. I can see desp being scum but I don't think most of what you've said about him is super likely to be coming from scum. You said you had a town read on desp at one point on your second color wheel - can you point out what you were townreading him for and what makes that not apply anymore?

[Gammagooey]

There's an easy way to do this actually.

@Town:

Please claim if you roleblocked boon last night.

nope

[Gammagooey]

vifam everyone's claimed but me, you, and zito, and zito's asking everyone else about boon roleblocks so I don't think that's the case.

I'll just say that my role doesn't affect kills for now, but I still think massclaiming and just getting everything out in the open at this point is a pretty decent idea.

[Gammagooey]

@Boon- Can you double check with the mod and make sure that you don't still have a vig shot? I want to make sure there's no more possible wacky shenanigans here

[Gammagooey]

Could desp be town and lying about his BP not being used to try and push someone he thinks is scum?

I don't think he would have gotten a PM if his action failed normally, using your action and having it get used up is the 'default' so having it be refunded with something like your ability would be the exception that would get a PM, but it's theoretically possible I'm wrong

Could desp be town and lying about his BP not being used to try and push someone he thinks is scum?

If he is after 2 town self-hammers and helping to quicklynch another town player that wasn't even bothering to play the game he can fuck himself to death

[Gammagooey]

like i think there is a chance of desp lying about the informed part of his BP here but if he wants to say he lied about it as town he needs to get in here and claim that he fucked up so quickly that it physically happens in the past

[Gammagooey]

k cool

remember that time when we had night chat on night 2? that was my 1-shot day activated ability

ability name was Bonfire, I'm a blue 4-star, need to pull up my character name in a minute

[Gammagooey]

character name is Robin: High Deliverer

[Gammagooey]

I used it right as I was voting NC and putting them at I think L-1, thought NC was fairly likely scum and I thought that regardless of their flip there'd be a pretty decent amount of stuff to go on that during night while everyone was still alive. I'd been planning to prob use it n2 from pretty much the start of the game anyway, it didn't seem great to use with only 1 flip on n1 and since it's not really that useful I didn't see much of a point in holding onto it longer than that in case I died n2.

[Gammagooey]

I'd say that bulletproofs could go either way with being informed when shot or not in more normal games on MS but theres a lean toward not being told

[Gammagooey]

stop enormous fucking quotewall spamposting

desp why in the fuck did you lie about being informed and make up the bullshit about boon potentially being a non-shooting rolecop when boon obv could have just been scum who shot you that night and claimed a vig

[Gammagooey]

we don't get a mislynch if we lynch redscum here, we've got 8 alive.

[Gammagooey]

stop enormous fucking quotewall spamposting

desp why in the fuck did you lie about being informed and make up the bullshit about boon potentially being a non-shooting rolecop when boon obv could have just been scum who shot you that night and claimed a vig

It seemed like a good idea and there was no reason for boon to preempt my BP claim like that.

he claims to have (and almost certainly did regardless of his alignment) shot you and scum bp is pretty clearly a thing that could exist from his perspective

why was fakeclaiming informed and starting a 1v1 with him what came to mind instead of just pointing to only one nightkill and saying 'hey look he's prob scum fakeclaiming vig'?

[Gammagooey]

Pretty sure that's still what I've said, and he's getting a pass from everyone so I didnt think being passive about it would be effective

no, that's horseshit. you don't have to fakeclaim to not be passive about something, you could have screamed from the rooftops about how obv it was to you that boon was scum fakeclaiming a vig shot and you didn't and I don't see why at all. did you think that boon was more likely to be a rolecop who no-killed or something than him just fakeclaiming the vig shot on you? tell me exactly what your thought process was with wtf was going on at the start of today.

[Gammagooey]

and he couldn't have known from just shooting you in the face and you not dying?

what events n1?

[Gammagooey]

@desp-I still don't really see how a boon deciding to no-kill as a rolecop makes more sense than him shooting you at the time but i can see that thought process potentially coming from town so whatever

why did you argue with boon and especially zito about the informed semantics and how it was similar to NC's action refunded?

@boon did you mean to quote another post along with that because that post is literally the opposite of him thinking it was just speculation

[Gammagooey]

desp sees you saying he's BP, when he is BP

he assumes you know he's BP and that you couldn't have absolutely known he was bp unless you were a rolecop, so you're a rolecop that knew he was bp

it's a little bit of a logic leap from 'he says i'm bp->he knows i'm bp' but there are zero problems with that thought process

[Gammagooey]

dessssspppppppppp

why did you argue with boon and especially zito about the informed semantics and how it was similar to NC's action refunded?

I'm going to be technically V/LA (out of town) tonight through Wednesday but I'll be checking in tomorrow afternoon and probably sometime sunday and at least one of mon/tuesday evening too

Gonna try to sum up what most of what I've been going on about recently in an hour and a half or so after I'm done packing.

[Gammagooey]

So I think Desp is more likely to be scum than Boon here. Desp was pushing a LOT of stuff he knew was absolutely wrong with the comparisons of his role to NC's role refund from #2067 to #2091 given that the informed part of his BP was a lie, and to me it felt more like he was trying to make a convincing roleclaim for everyone than it would if he was just trying to get boon lynched, and he revealed it when it started getting brought up that his claim didn't make sense with how he was acting around PV yesterday.
I also don't think that the way he was pushing on Desp for stuff he knew was a lie felt particularly different and especially his #2091 was pushing on Boon for something he was doing literally right then:

So when I ask myself "Self, why would Boon say you're lying about being informed that your one shot has been used even tho that has been the norm in this game" the answer is because he is scum muddying the waters to secure a lynch.

I also think Desp being scum and setting up his BP fakeclaim on N2 by no-killing is what makes the most sense as for what happened that night, and I've liked Boon's play a lot more than Desp's this game- I liked Boon's reactions to people during day 1, and after going back and reading a bit he did start to change his read on Dunn before the end of d1 too - choosing to not kill anyone n2 after that is a little weird but given that it's a 1-shot and the guy he tried to shoot n1 got lynched and flipped town but I don't think that alone is more likely to come from scum than town. And for as much as Boon's posts today are hyperactive tunnelling on Desp it does feel to me that he genuinely believes Desp is scum.

Having said that, I also think there's at least a decent chance desp and boon are on different scumteams - it explains literally all the missing nightkills if you assume desp no-killed to set up his BP claim and Boon faked a vig shot after failing to kill Desp, desp tunnelling on about boon for the entire game makes a lot of sense if he's on the other scumteam and genuinely believes he's scum (especially if he's on the untouched scumteam) and likewise boon genuinely believing that desp is BP scum doesn't necessarily make boon town, and it does feel a little weird that boon's been going on for so long about one of me+vax being scum for the whole game and has been treating that as gospel for something that happened way back near the start of day 1 instead of trying to read us individually.

This wound up being longer than I thought so last two things before I gtfo
-I already had a gut scum read on Desp for a while before all of the clusterfuckery today started so if other people could look through the posts where he was pushing boon for things he was lying about and compare it to how he was pushing boon before today and give me their thoughts I'd really appreciate it
-I'm going to go ahead and vote Desp but please, please don't get him close to a lynch until NC and AJ get in here and actually have some thoughts of their own.

VOTE: Desperado

[Gammagooey]

Desp fakeclaiming to lynch boon and then dropping it to vote AJ now without responding to any of the shit I said about him feels pretty damn awful, even if he is saying that boon+AJ are most likely scum together.

I still think AJ is really likely town and I think the tone of his play for pretty much the entire game supports that. I'd rather do Chara than AJ by a thousand miles even though I'm not really convinced that Chara is slamdunk redscum like you and vifam and maybe someone else has said, it's straightforward and possible but I hate going on shit like that when I think a lot more often scum will just try to distance or leave each other alone instead. Chara's multiball thing d2 still feels real bad but I'm not amazingly confident in them being scum even with that.

Like I could see Chara potentially being on either scumteam but that lynch terrifies me compared to just lynching Desp right now and that's really what I'd like to do.

[Gammagooey]

and i've said repeatedly that i think boon is last redscum so no, i dont think it's boon/aj

what about AJ's play do you think has been scummy then?

[Gammagooey]

Zito not immediately voting desp after I gave my thoughts on him are completely understandable given that he's on vacation and isnt going through everything after every argument b/c of that, and him not giving a shit about desp wanting his opinion now when desp laid out his opinion on boon and then didn't give a shit about actually trying to convince Zito or anyone else about it and then fakeclaimed and again didn't give a shit about people not seeing/understanding why exactly he did it makes perfect sense to me.

Zito isn't my towniest read and I'll listen to an argument for him being scum from someone who isn't desp if they want to give one, but it feels like desp is trying to just put forward another lynch that isn't him.

I'm kind of around but phoneposting for the next hour, but I'll be able to go through stuff on my laptop for anyone that wants opinions/to go over people after that.

[Gammagooey]

I might be being seeing your posts with a bit of a blood-colored tint atm to be fair to you but I think your points about Zito don't have anything to do with his alignment and you'really happening to bring that up literally immediately after two other players have mentioned their potential willingness to lynch zito.

[Gammagooey]

Like there'a so much shit to go on for zito especially and your reason for thinking he's scum is the timing of his vote on you while he's on vacation. What were your thoughts on zito before today?

[Gammagooey]

me and zito go way back, him targeting me to try to get a neighborhood with me even though im prob not the best target for the other part of the ability is absolutely something he would do as either alignment

[Gammagooey]

zito we're conference bros right now

[Gammagooey]

zito i don't think everyone else understands your cheeky wiles

or maybe i don't but it can be a mystery for a bit

my conference was literally just presentations from 7am until 5 something with a couple breaks and then a documentary after dinner, and the coworker that was going to go with me had a family emergency so it's just me taking notes on things and being bored (i did get to see pie yesterday tho)

[Gammagooey]

well

hi guys

[Gammagooey]

welp

vifam did you kill aj or vax?

[Gammagooey]

why tho

[Gammagooey]

<3

sorry town friends

VOTE: Papa Zito

feel free to kill me tonight

[Gammagooey]

gg everyone!

I enjoyed playing with the majority of you all and I wish it could have been a little better of a game - town got fairly screwed lynching one of their two 5-star roles day 1, and I don't think it would have happened if ThinkBig hadn't been V/LA for something like 8 out of 10 ten RL days in there. And he was posting elsewhere around the site and changed his avatar in the meantime too- it was just kind of stupid. I really did have a townread on GIF for just the tone of his posts too, but him not really showing up to play either getting him lynched was pretty understandable, and then the rest of the game kind of spiraled out of town's hands from there.
PV - you did get screwed by how the actions went down n2, but a)don't ever self-hammer seriously it's retarded and b) I don't think you're active enough as a player to do well in games with only 7 day deadlines tbh.

I do think boon and I played pretty damn well trying to stay outside of the top-tier of townreads to avoid dying there while not being scummy enough to be considered a serious lynch target until the final day, and Vifam played really well too, after the Desp lynch the only person I thought was more likely town than him was Vax and he pushed really well on NC for something he knew was false.

Lynching desp with boon instead of spreading out our votes on the last day was a little risky but I thought desp would be the only possible red-scum that might backstab us if we offered a joint win, and if he was scum boon was def. getting shot if both of them stayed alive so that desp could prove that the push on him was from scum - I maybe should have thought that if desp was scum boon would probably already be dead but it worked out.

Vifam what was your actual role?

[Gammagooey]

Cabd you were a great mod thanks for your work

also this

[Gammagooey]

Oh, and in regards to the Rule 26 commentary at the end of the dead thread - I personally like it given how I think it'll usually turn out, and the possibility of a crosskill on each team would mean town would have a very real chance of winning when they had no business deserving it if it came down to 3/4 people and a scum from each team.

If both scum teams decided from the start to message each other and try to win with each other no matter what, it is pretty balls for town, but I think something like this (it winds up being similar to 2 scum with a traitor kind of sort of working together) was a lot more likely to happen, if scum try to go for it too early and wind up needing to 'bus' the other scumteam the game can go really badly for them really quickly if one team feels like they were backstabbed and kills a member of the other in retribution, or if a scumteam feels that the other scumteam being dead will give them an easier victory long-term.

Here for instance if the other scumteam had been dead already when we tried to set up Boon's vig claim on desp, seeing all the factional kills go through added to Boon's claim to have shot Desp I really think would have let us just coast through the last two mislynches we needed instead of having to deal with a 'real' 1v1 with desperado like we had here. And we were trying to lynch the other scum during the day, it just happened that most of the town happened to look scummier to literally everyone left in the game >_>

[Gammagooey]

Was a good fun game, I like the role chance thing, 3 4 or 5 stars. Sorry I played so poorly

don't feel too bad, you were legitimately the towniest person alive the day of the desp lynch imo, and if more town people were putting in the amount of effort you were near the end, there probably wouldn't have been 3 straight mislynches to start with

Your role miiiight have been better saved for day 2 or 3 given that boon's action was one of the strongest if targeted well and he was scum, but unless you have some claims to work with already it's kind of hard to think of a scenario where using it isn't at least a little bit of a crapshoot.