Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[Ginngie]

Hey dramonic, what caused you to say Frosted Kelvin Bran was obviously town?

[dramonic]

I mean you are, just not as loudly

[A2]

Yeah I want to get the people whoj are detrimental to fucking DO SOMETHING
-_-

[dramonic]

Hey dramonic, what caused you to say Frosted Kelvin Bran was obviously town?

Cuz FKB played well, which made me ignore Nos cuz its Nos.
While we're asking stupid questions: Why did you vote on both mislynches?

EDIT: Woosh

[Ginngie]

Cuz FKB played well, which made me ignore Nos cuz its Nos.
While we're asking stupid questions: Why did you vote on both mislynches?

It's not a stupid question, you never gave reasoning as to why they were town, the only thing you did do was highlight the word obvious, while funny, means literally nothing.

[Vedith]

Yeah I want to get the people whoj are detrimental to fucking DO SOMETHING
-_-

Am I one of those people?

[dramonic]

Meanwhile, dodging the question.

[MathBlade]

Won't be on til late tonight worky worky.

[dramonic]

afk for the night, got it

[Ginngie]

Meanwhile, dodging the question.

I give reasons for why I vote, you can go back and read,

because:

I read the game

[A2]

If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.

[dramonic]

You have 900 posts, I'm not gonna go looking through that
I don't actually care, I just wanna see what BS you came up with to justify it.

EDIT: Indeed

[Ginngie]

So dram, since you scum read me 'before the CC'

what did you scum read me for :3

[mastina]

@Mastina - would you consider a deflector as protective / manipulative?

No.
A deflector is a manipulative role, and would be classified as such. For this game, it would not be classified as a protective.

[Vedith]

Thanks Mastina! \o/

So, we all gucci now?

[Ginngie]

yeah we good man

So Veddiy baby, where your reads at

[Vedith]

yeah we good man

So Veddiy baby, where your reads at

I wrote my reads down, bit hard to read while in this dark room.
Maybe if I was given some light...

[Ginngie]

yo

i'll make you one of the greatest reads deal America has ever seen.

You give reads, you got my vote for the lights

[Bulbazak]

Gin, this is something that has to be taken care of. We have guaranteed scum right in front of us, and you lot want to go bug off and frolic in the lurkers. This is mind boggling to me, because I know you see it to, but you're not willing to put in the actual hard work and lynch the obvious scum that's sitting right in front of you.

1.) Math is scum based on mechanics. N1 is still not explained, and deep down, you know that Nos's boon likely doesn't cover what happened. The pool for the strongman has been narrowed down to one name: Math. Math tried to distract from the role specific hunting yesterday, and I called them out on it. It doesn't matter whether it was strongman or bus driver, Math did not want us looking too hard into the light. I pointed out that they had set BTD to be the day's lynch and that they were planning on steering the conversation away the following day. I told you it would happen. I can quote you where they railed against their own theory to keep us from continuing to look into the light after BTD flipped. Math knew that the circle would eventually close on them if we kept hunting, and now that it has, you guys are letting them get away.

2.) Math is scum based on the fake guilty. This is why I don't get the anger that I'm willing to 1v1 what I know is obviously false, because that was a clear scum claim. Don't ignore that it was incredibly convenient as well. Scum move me into the Light PT only for them to kill off onto a non-entity (Rauth) and for me to be so conveniently "redirected" to the kill? That has set up written all over it, and Math's claim should have been suspect immediately. Now there are numerous other flaws with the claim as well, and I'm going to go over them in the main thread, but don't you think it's convenient that Math gets what they claim to be a guilty, yet they are unwilling to stand behind it when pressure and attention is sent their way? In fact, Math was only too willing to jump on that out you gave them.

3.) There are clear holes in their motivation. You've already seen this. If you ignore #2, then pay attention to this. Math's reasons for targeting Rauth or unclear and doesn't make sense given their previous stances. They thought Nos was scum, but they ignored everything having to do with that flip. They thought I was a vig, yet they don't think too deeply on what that would mean for my alignment, or what one kill would mean if they were right (I'll go more into this later.). Their claimed actions make no sense coming from town. You and others have noticed clear dissonance between what Math claims to have happened and what they think. I'm dumbfounded that you've just let that drop.

4.) Math defended Nos and Dramonic. Now we can put a pin in Dramonic for now, because he hasn't flipped, but Math did hard defend Nos yesterday. I'm pretty sure the scum team are playing a cooperative game here. I'll quote the post in question in the main thread.

These are major issues, Gin. They point heavily to Math being scum. We essentially have everything except footage of them with the knife and a signed confession. The scum team is not trying to hide in the lurkers. They're trying to keep town from gelling together and settling down. The time for kneejerk reactions are over. Trust me, like you have at other points in the game. You trusted me that BTD was town. You trusted me to wait until close to deadline to throw the scum team off. Trust me on the town bloc. Trust me that Titus is town. I know that she can annoy you. I get that. But trust me on this. Trust me on Math as well. We either succeed or fail today, and if we do what we did d2 and go after the easy policy lynch, we will fail in the long run. You successfully guided the shot onto Nos. Help me lynch his partner and clear this PT of scum. It's going to be hard. We're going to be fought every step of the way. But I believe we can cripple the scum team today and begin the process of finding the remaining 2. Math is trying to say that they can help protect us if we don't lynch them. That's an appeal to emotion, and untrue based on their own claims. The remaining scum being in the dark would mean that Math would be powerless to use their ability, and they could only hinder the rest of us. Math's only concern is to survive. I only want to ensure that we lynch the last 3 scum, and I will dump all the information I can, and I will theorize and talk things out as much as I can, to make sure that happens. Don't get cold feet when you're needed most. Help me here.

Going to catch up on what happened here. I will be expanding on some of these points. I don't want a repeat of yesterday.

[A2]

1) There is a way to find out what Nos' boon was, and it has to do with night actions. Nos could have been your strongman and your whole arguement is based on the fact that Nos wasn't the strongman.
2) Scum could have just killed Rauth and Math could have just misinterpreted their result.
3) This is the only thing I agree with what you're saying.
4) But is it scum defending a scumbuddy or town just being bad and townreading scum which DOES infact happen.

[A2]

Bulba
there are people doing nothing right now.
I am way more concerned about those people then your 1v1. If Nos was the strongman or not will reveal itself but we certainly won't know the day he was shot.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, perhaps maybe clarifying how the guilty is rock solid is a good idea.

I posted the crux earlier, but I'm going to be going over some more specifics later. It's dumbfounding me that anyone is townreading Math. I haven't been this frustrated with town derping past confirmed town since I caught scum claiming a bastard role in a normal game.

We will get nothing done if we sit around for 20+ days refusing to vote people.

That shouldn't be the case. We literally have scum in the bag, and you were voting them, and then you and Gin decided it would be too hard to actually think critically and you went after the shiny baubles instead.

We're killing texcat today.

No we're not. We can use our roles to narrow down if Texcat is scum or not, but we're not going after policy lynches again today. That time is over.

Not Titus.

Agreed.

Not Bulba or Math because that can wait a day.

No. This gets settled today. One of us is scum, and you know deep down which one it is.

The OMGUS factor just tipped me off the fence.

wait...

what?

Math has scum read you since day one and even brought up the idea of wagoning you earlier today

I think she meant she's OMGUSing. Although it should be pointed out that Math's vote was scummy as crap. You offered them an out, and they took it. That is not what they would do if they were town and felt that they really caught scum with their role. At the very least, they'd be looking more into that, but Math has shown no concern with actually figuring out what took place, and they've shown even less for actually standing by their guilty.

Alisae, I don't feel the best about this wagon but we may get something by comparing Math wagon to earlier days.

Check out this theory.

Town gets wagoned, no counters or any discussion besides that player.

Brings up counter wagon onto scum, scum attack the old town wagon with force.

Nos didn't vote BTD until she became a wagon herself.

It's almost literally a mirror match up actually

First, not every scum react to wagons in the exact same way. Second, you need to go back and look at what happened d2. There are some very specific things regarding Nos that you are forgetting.

Texcat never voted anyone, Math was main wagon no argument.
Nos never voted anyone, BTD was main wagon no argument.

BTD voted Nos, the first counter and a scum wagon.
Math voted Rex, the first counter and

could

be a scum wagon.


Nos voted BTD right after after she became an actual wagon.
Texcat voted Math right after she became an actual wagon.


The only element missing is texcat being town or scum because that requires a flip but it's literally the same play

You are forgetting context. Regardless of Nos being scum, she was still catching up. It paints a lot of her actions d2. The problem was not that she was catching up, it was that her reads were fake by virtue of her being scum. If she would have continued that d3, you'd have a point, but comparing the actions of a player who was scum but not all there to a player who is actually current is problematic. You need to look at why Nos did what she did, and then you need to look at why Texcat is doing what she does and see if that makes sense from a town or scum perspective, especially given the rest of Texcat's play.

[dramonic]

I dont think Math could post anything that Bulb is not gonna try to twist into a scumclaim.

[Bulbazak]

1) There is a way to find out what Nos' boon was, and it has to do with night actions. Nos could have been your strongman and your whole arguement is based on the fact that Nos wasn't the strongman.

Nos was a roleblocker. Do you really think Mastin is doubling scum up on PRs? Simplest explanation is that there was another scum PR in the light on n1. You start there and then reevaluate as more evidence comes up. No further evidence has come up to dispute that, and Math is the last one left in the pool.

2) Scum could have just killed Rauth and Math could have just misinterpreted their result.

There's more to that, but I kept it short. There's major dissonance in Math's thought process, and I'm going to go over it in a little bit.

4) But is it scum defending a scumbuddy or town just being bad and townreading scum which DOES infact happen.

Except they then tried to say they did a complete 180 on Nos during the night and suspected her as scum. That comes out of nowhere, just like the Rauth read comes out of nowhere. I'll be quoting their defense of Nos in a bit, and you can see for yourself.

P-edit: And there's her buddy coming to the rescue. Right on time.

[Vedith]

yo

i'll make you one of the greatest reads deal America has ever seen.

You give reads, you got my vote for the lights

Deal!

Scum - Mathblade - Just posting scum!
Town - Ginngie - I believe the claim and I think town posts
Town - Creature - Don't feel like scum, and PoE keeping in mind I'm biased and think only 23 scum in each group from start.
Scum - QuantumRadius - Always talking about people trying to pocket, never really doing anything productive. Just seems fake
Town - Bulbazak - Bulbasaur! He was pretty town in the PT at least.
Scum? - A2 - Can't be scum with Texcat. But can be scum just from lack of consistency.
Scum? - Aronis - Feel less like scum, but red writing and all.
Scum - 79 CE - Doesn't impress me as town! SCUM! Day 1 then said in PT, and I quote "I'm scum! Vedith is good, lets kill him tonight" then followed up with "Wrong PT".
Scum - texcat - Texcat is texcat, and texcat is always scum imo. Sucks if town. Don't read as town.
Town - dramonic - His attitude in PT made me contempt with him, and the fact he was counter claiming for a silly reason makes me believe more town.
Town? - TheWayItEnds - Can be considered as town from all the other bodies and how they looked. He's just salty for some reason and everything from him is either NAI or scum sided, but that's like saying Trump represents the presidents before him.
Town - Titus - Playing like town Titus

Math and QR are scum from original light
Then the 2 in dark are between A2, 79, and Tex

Now, I bet you want to know why?

Okay, I can do that! I will add it to the names, look up!
I don't really care too much about the light as I think Math and QR are the only 2 scum there. Rest can be town mainly PoE.

Yay me for light! \o/