Open 537 - Polygamist: Game over, town win.

[Skullduggery]

But seriously. You're arguing with me that scummy-towny shouldn't be lynched and you're discussing with me and BaldEagle that scummy-scummy may not be scum.

Who's arguing? You said something in 34 that I don't understand and I've just been trying to get you to explain it in a way that makes sense. Am I making an unreasonable request here? Did I catch you saying something that you can't justify?

Please enlighten me how this isn't contradicting your attacks on us both.

Where have I attacked you both?

Add in overreacting as well. If someone says you're doing it to everyone, of course he doesn't mean everyone. By saying that he should prove that you're doing it to everyone, then you're going to far with words.

Are you seriously unable to tell that I was being facetious about that?

And basically from then on, I’m actually more convinced Lark is scum. His claims that two people “aren’t acting like town” but acting like “part of an anti-town group” is complete conjecture

Disagreed again. From Lark's point of view, I can see what he means.

And what

did

Lark mean?

I'm also watching this Lark/baldeagle back and forth like a hawk

I see what you did there.

In my experience, most of the time this happens, it's between two townies or one scum and one townie. It's rarely done between scum unless they know what they're doing.

How likely do you think it is that Lark/Baldeagle is a Town/Town argument? Is it likely enough to be worth further consideration? If so, what other pairings are you looking at?

[Who]

Vote Count 2-4:

JKLM - 0
Skullduggery - 0
1baldeagle1 - 2 (Lark, Bojo)
Neonizer - 0
Blueberry - 0
Sanhora - 0
Lark - 4 (Skullduggery, 1Baldeagle1, Desperado, Redcoyote) (L-3)
Bojo - 2 (Sanhora, JKLM)
Desperado - 0
Matias - 1 (Blueberry)
RedCoyote - 0
phokdapolees - 0
Not voting: Neonizer, Matias, phokdapolees

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
You have: (expired on 2013-12-09 16:30:00) until the deadline.

Phokdapolees is V/LA until Sunday.
JKLM is V/LA until Saturday.

[Matias]

Hm. Wondered why in the hell Blueberry is voting me, and then realizing that he has absolutely no content.

Neonizer and Blueberry...

[Sanhora]

In post 86, Sanhora wrote:
But seriously. You're arguing with me that scummy-towny shouldn't be lynched and you're discussing with me and BaldEagle that scummy-scummy may not be scum.

Who's arguing? You said something in 34 that I don't understand and I've just been trying to get you to explain it in a way that makes sense. Am I making an unreasonable request here? Did I catch you saying something that you can't justify?

In post 86, Sanhora wrote:
Please enlighten me how this isn't contradicting your attacks on us both.

Where have I attacked you both?

In post 86, Sanhora wrote:
Add in overreacting as well. If someone says you're doing it to everyone, of course he doesn't mean everyone. By saying that he should prove that you're doing it to everyone, then you're going to far with words.

Are you seriously unable to tell that I was being facetious about that?

In post 86, Sanhora wrote:
Bojo wrote:
And basically from then on, I’m actually more convinced Lark is scum. His claims that two people “aren’t acting like town” but acting like “part of an anti-town group” is complete conjecture

Disagreed again. From Lark's point of view, I can see what he means.

And what did Lark mean?

So by asking me if a scummy player is guaranteed scum, you're trying to learn what I mean? Can't wait for that explanation, as the whole discussion started before my post 34. Better yet, BaldEagle has answered your question, yet you don't mention it. Enlighten me what you've learned.

If it's not an attack, then what is it? Because you have gone out of your way to repeatedly ask us those questions. You didn't even answer my questions, which brings me to my next point.

I don't care what you call it. All I see is you throwing with words. And when players respond to you with their answers, you don't respond back.

There's a town. And you 2 (Skulldog and Desperado) are 'leading' the town in a way which doesn't make Lark happy. That's what he's trying to point out from what I understand.


@Lark
My question was how you 'know' that 8 players din't have access to the QT. Desperado and Skulldog have said that they talked about in the QT and so did Baldeagle and I. So what about the other players?

[Sanhora]

Hi

I'll be signing my posts with "~Bo" Jmo can sign however he wants, I guess.

I also think we should reveal partners, but I wanna see what Jmo thinks first.

Has anyone else played Polygamist before? I've played True Love but this setup is quite different from that. Any experience as far as strategies go?

~Bo

First off, bad Desperado for not calling this post out. You mentioned in your catch-up post that Lark was scummy, for not mentiong his reason why he was opposed to a mass-claim. Yet, Bojo also only said that he agreed with someone else. This adds on as parroting Matias.
But the other part is that the hydra is mentioning here that he hasn't talked about mass-claiming with his other head and apparently also not with his partner. This is scummy as he's asking here for advice what to do. So if he's town, he rather asks people who could be scum, instead of players who he knows are town.

His catch-up post was terrible. Just thinking 'wait, we get a mislynch' and voting for a 'placeholder' is not what town does. I can explain this if players want, but I rather makee it to my bus on time now. And I hope this part doesn't need an explanation.

[Lark]

@Lark
My question was how you 'know' that 8 players din't have access to the QT. Desperado and Skulldog have said that they talked about in the QT and so did Baldeagle and I. So what about the other players?

It was Desperado and Skulldog's QT I was referring to because baldeagle was implying in post 52, to which I was replying, that the fact they discussed it in their QT meant they didn't need to discuss it with others in the thread. Most of us didn't have access to that particular QT. Are you saying you did?

[Sanhora]

Ok, i misunderstood that It was about a particular QT. And no, bald eagle and i had our own discussion.

[Lark]

EBWOP:

It was Desperado and Skulldog's QT I was referring to...

"Skullduggery" not "Skulldog".

Sorry, my fault for just copy/pasting it from Sanhora's post.

[Desperado]

First off, bad Desperado for not calling this post out. You mentioned in your catch-up post that Lark was scummy, for not mentiong his reason why he was opposed to a mass-claim. Yet, Bojo also only said that he agreed with someone else. This adds on as parroting Matias.
But the other part is that the hydra is mentioning here that he hasn't talked about mass-claiming with his other head and apparently also not with his partner. This is scummy as he's asking here for advice what to do. So if he's town, he rather asks people who could be scum, instead of players who he knows are town.

Uh...what? If he and Jmo didn't discuss massclaim pre-game, how do you expect him to ask him afterwards?

His only choice was to ask the game.

And of course I wouldn't think someone is scummy for agreeing with Matias (who agreed with me). Like, wtf?

[Matias]

This type of setup is hard. I have to analyze double the amount of people.

Let me recap here...

Skullduggery and Desperado:

(Bojo/RC) - Desperado calls Bojo town. Doesn't mention RC. Skull doesn't mention either. Bojo is a little more strict in his townread of Desperado and started off feeling uneasy about Skull. RedCoyote says that Desp/Skull's early game play makes them town.

(baldeagle/Sanhora) - baldeagle attacks Lark for Lark's attack on Desperado. Desp calls eagle town. Skull's read on eagle seems a bit schizophrenic.

By the way, I didn't respond to this:

How likely do you think it is that Lark/Baldeagle is a Town/Town argument? Is it likely enough to be worth further consideration? If so, what other pairings are you looking at?

I'm about to address this, but at this point, very likely.

Skull's kind of grilling Sanhora really hard. So I think at this point the thing that makes me wonder the most about Desperado and Skull is their disagreement on how to view eagle/Sanhora's pairing, but that could easily come from town motivation.

(Neonizer (blueberry doesn't apply since he's a nonfactor)) - Desperado attacks Neon. Skull questions his line of logic. Reactions are consistent.

(Lark and phok) - Desperado has a full fledged attack on Lark and calls the scumteam Neonizer/Lark (and their partners). Neither mention phok but that might be a non-issue.

More to come. I'd rather split these into separate posts.

[Matias]

Bojo and RedCoyote:

(eagle/Sanhora) - Bojo says that Lark and eagle aren't likely to be scum together, votes eagle and then says more about Lark, but DOES mention that his vote is a placeholder. Grills Sanhora on hypocrisy but doesn't follow through on it. RC asks Sanhora a question and doesn't follow through on it, RC agrees with eagle on Lark and then throws a vote onto him.

(Neonizer) - Biggest deal here: Bojo says that Lark and Neon cannot be scum together and says something about Neon assuming information. Never mentions him other than that. RC never mentions Neon. Neon mentions RC briefly twice, but NEVER bojo.

(Lark/phok) - Bojo attacks both Lark and phok, RC does the same with an agreement with eagle. Lark says that Bojo's attack on Lark isn't that scummy (which is really town, IMO). Says he isn't sure about RC.

[Desperado]

Matias I'm confused by what you're doing right now. For example, "Neon mentions RC briefly twice, but NEVER bojo."

^Is there a judgement being made here?

[Desperado]

And I don't understand why it's useful to categorize scumreads by lover pair. Why does it make you wonder about Skull and I that we disagree about another pair (especially when you think their might be town motivation for it)?

[Matias]

eagle and Sanhora:

(Neon) - eagle thinks Neon and Lark are buddies and Neon would bus Lark. Neon has an odd vote on Lark about an assumption that lovers aren't confirmed to each other; I saw no such thing myself.

(Lark/Phok) - eagle and Lark have a lengthy one on one and I've said before about how I've felt about this.


Neonizer:

(Lark/phok) - Lark is less sure of a scum read on Neonizer. That's about it.

Honestly, based on reactions, interactions and activity, I'm actually going to put my money on a Bojo/RC and Neonizer/Blueberry scumteam for a few reasons.

-Total lack of interaction with each other
-Neonizer agreeing with RedCoyote while having NOTHING to say about Bojo, who's been a far bigger force than RC has this game
-Eagerness on both sides to jump on the Lark wagon, which I'm not happy with any longer.
-Speaking of Lark, the 1v1 between Lark and eagle make me believe that both are town or only one is scum, and based on THEIR reactions, I don't think that either are scum.
-Blueberry not saying or doing anything. I would think at least at this point, you'd have SOMETHING to say. Even phok, who I had an eye on for a while when doing this recap, had something to say, albeit super short and deflective.

Vote: Neonizer

I'm comfortable with this and I'm willing to listen to anyone BUT Blueberry, Bojo and RedCoyote on their thoughts about my concerns.

Preview edit: I was coming to a conclusion. Read this last post before anything else.

Also, it was never a suspicion, just an oddity. I don't think anyone else in this game has had differentiating opinions on a person with their lover on a person yet.

For what it's worth, I also find all three pairs of you guys (eagle/Sanhora, You/Skull and Lark/phok) town by general demeanor and from what I believe to be legit scumhunting.

What I posted was a lot of information to digest, so take some time to read it.

[Matias]

EBWOP:

Read this last post before anything else.

Should be:

Read this last post before you come to a conclusion about anything.

It was bad wording.

[Matias]

Also, I didn't answer your question about what I'm doing. I wanted to look at everyone's interactions with each other from the start of the game until now, especially since there can be very valuable information in how people interact with each other before the game gets to full steam. All of the above notes were general impressions that I received about a certain interaction.

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Neonizer

[Who]

Vote Count 2-5:

JKLM - 0
Skullduggery - 0
1baldeagle1 - 2 (Lark, Bojo)
Neonizer - 2 (Matias, desperado)
Blueberry - 0
Sanhora - 0
Lark - 3 (Skullduggery, 1Baldeagle1, Redcoyote) (L-4)
Bojo - 2 (Sanhora, JKLM)
Desperado - 0
Matias - 1 (Blueberry)
RedCoyote - 0
phokdapolees - 0
Not voting: Neonizer, phokdapolees
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
You have: (expired on 2013-12-09 16:30:00) until the deadline.

Phokdapolees is V/LA until Sunday.
JKLM is V/LA until Saturday.
Neonizer has been prodded.

[Lark]

Lark says that Bojo's attack on Lark isn't that scummy (which is really town, IMO).

That was his first vote but his attack on me in 84 was certainly scummy.

Out of Bojo and Neonizer I think the case against Bojo is stronger. See the first para of 99.

VOTE: Bojo

[1baldeagle1]

Lark says that Bojo's attack on Lark isn't that scummy (which is really town, IMO).

That was his first vote but his attack on me in 84 was certainly scummy.

Out of Bojo and Neonizer I think the case against Bojo is stronger. See the first para of 99.

VOTE: Bojo

While we are all voting Neonnizer, you vote Bojo. This just looks like he's too afraid to bus.

I'm good with either Lark or Neonizer, along with their lovers.

VOTE: Neonizer

[JKLM]

Lark says that Bojo's attack on Lark isn't that scummy (which is really town, IMO).

That was his first vote but his attack on me in 84 was certainly scummy.

Out of Bojo and Neonizer I think the case against Bojo is stronger. See the first para of 99.

VOTE: Bojo

While we are all voting Neonnizer, you vote Bojo. This just looks like he's too afraid to bus.

I'm good with either Lark or Neonizer, along with their lovers.

VOTE: Neonizer

To be fair, 2 is not "everyone voting."

Also why the would scum bus in a polygamist game? That would literally be suicide for the entire faction, correct?

[1baldeagle1]

Lark says that Bojo's attack on Lark isn't that scummy (which is really town, IMO).

That was his first vote but his attack on me in 84 was certainly scummy.

Out of Bojo and Neonizer I think the case against Bojo is stronger. See the first para of 99.

VOTE: Bojo

While we are all voting Neonnizer, you vote Bojo. This just looks like he's too afraid to bus.

I'm good with either Lark or Neonizer, along with their lovers.

VOTE: Neonizer

To be fair, 2 is not "everyone voting."

Also why the would scum bus in a polygamist game? That would literally be suicide for the entire faction, correct?

Two votes implies that there is a wagon forming.

Are you familiar with the Whit Flag Gambit? You guys really need to stop the "Scum wouldn't bus"

[Lark]

While we are all voting Neonnizer, you vote Bojo. This just looks like he's too afraid to bus.

Did you read my reason for voting him?

Before you voted Bojo was on three and Neonizer was on two, you jumped off a no longer viable wagon to tie them on three each. What is your reason for voting Neonizer rather than Bojo?

Are you familiar with the Whit Flag Gambit? You guys really need to stop the "Scum wouldn't bus"

Yes, I've heard of it. Is that why Bojo voted you? Trouble is, he spoilt the effect a bit with his "placeholder" comment.

[Lark]

What is your reason for voting Neonizer rather than Bojo?

Actually I'm going to address this one to Matias and Desp too. Why did you start a new wagon on Neonizer when there were already votes on Bojo?

[Matias]

I feel more confident on my read on Neonizer than I do on Bojo, despite the fact that I feel they are a team.