Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Battle Mage]

i mean... BM immediately jumped down my throat, even putting an RVS vote on me and then pushing me as scum and telling people to ignore me. its not shocking. i can play on given that. but i do have to defend myself, and i was asked a direct question about my feelings about BM. if thats an issue i dont mind being replaced. but its not such an issue for me that i cant be civil.

i don't think me voting for you, or thinking you are scum is against the rules.

i specifically told 1 player to ignore you when you were trying to argue that town should out it's PRs. Again, that's not a personal thing and has no relevance to other games. You can argue it's discourteous, but in game terms, I was trying to mitigate against something which is likely to hurt my wincon.

A personal attack on me based on your misinterpretation of other game(s) was not a proportionate 'defence' to you being scummy in this game. I don't know why you have feelings for me, but I thought the Mod's clarification on rules/etiquette was helpful.

[Battle Mage]

ah i cross-posted, whoops!

[Jewel Barons]

Norwee what is your scum game like?

Isis can tell you.
They know all about how scum!me plays in open games.

- Norwee

[Battle Mage]

So I think "misrep" is a stretch.

Ok, maybe a misinterp then (I think it's clear what Tayl0r was saying and I don't think it was justifying the discussion around the setup).

I don't agree that was clear - it was slightly ambiguous. I'm content that I made my position on it very clear. You can call it pre-emptive perhaps?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I don't mind your post

[Battle Mage]

what's your take on the parallel between this and Noir Mafia?

[MURDERCAT]

It's hard for me to say, when I use meta I usually look at both scum games and town games and try to develop a priori things to look for to avoid conf biasing. I am not currently reading much into your interaction but there is only a ~50% chance you are both town based on random draw so I think determining whether 1 or more of you are scum will be a useful place to start.

[Isis]

I've failed to read Norwee correctly before, but I have played an awful lot of opens where he rolled scum.

Generally I think he's easiest to figure out by determining how performative he's being. The time he tricked me was when he made a few wallposts that felt a little Hollywood but seemed so solid and logicky I wanted to townread them anyway.

[xofelf]

Hollywood?

[Jewel Barons]

They don't call me Clint Eastwood for nothing.

- Norwee


(Nobody calls me that)

[Battle Mage]

It's hard for me to say, when I use meta I usually look at both scum games and town games and try to develop a priori things to look for to avoid conf biasing. I am not currently reading much into your interaction but there is only a ~50% chance you are both town based on random draw so I think determining whether 1 or more of you are scum will be a useful place to start.

that's interesting on 2 counts.

Firstly, I thought you would have some opinion about the parallel with Noir Mafia situation, and be willing to share it, as you had recognised it too. I had an expectation of what your opinion might be, but am more surprised you didn't share one. Although I appreciate the need for balanced meta, that doesn't preclude you reflecting on whether 2 situations/behaviours are comparable.

Secondly, I struggle to see what you're getting at with the probability thing. Isn't that the same with any 2 random players? And if you aren't reading much into the interaction, why even bother picking me and Taylor? Getting a slightly weird vibe here that you're starting with the presumption of at least 1 of us being scum, which wouldn't accord.

[Isis]

Hollywood?

Acting, dramatic, scripted.

Spoiler:

[Battle Mage]

They don't call me Clint Eastwood for nothing.

- Norwee


(Nobody calls me that)

i went to school with a clint eastwood. i remember he used to get in to fights with the other fat kids.

[xofelf]

Ah right, okay. Thank you.

I might be alone in thinking that meta is largely useless, especially if you have enough awareness in your own trends to purposefully use it to confuse people, but I am finding the comments on it so far interesting.

[Battle Mage]

Ah right, okay. Thank you.

I might be alone in thinking that meta is largely useless, especially if you have enough awareness in your own trends to purposefully use it to confuse people, but I am finding the comments on it so far interesting.

other people do think this, although I don't. meta is very useful for 2 main reasons:

1. to use previous games by player A to ascertain player A's alignment
2. to see if player B draws a fair and objective comparison between player A's behaviour in 2 or more games.

[xofelf]

Oh.. I never considered B before. Hmm. I suppose that is actually useful.

[PlusJOYED]

This is odd but I actually have 0 clue on who scum could be, and I think taylor vs BM was NAI. I have some weak townreads though.

[Jewel Barons]

now that I'm actually posting from the hydra I'm gonna try to break down what I think of the mechanical speculation possibilities. This is stream of consciousness as I didn't really put much thought into the mechanics (or anything at all really lel) of the last Haunted Village game I played (which was also my first game with norskee funnily enough). The objective at the moment isn't determining what the setup is, just if it's wise to proceed with speculation.
So the things WE know is the SCUM know TOWN's roles, and we know SCUM's roles. Scum would pick roles that are counterplay to whatever town has.
we know scum picked banshee, witch, and vampire (non-consec strongman, rolecop, RB). That means scum used 5 points for their roles, meaning town has 8-9 points worth of roles. strongman implies kill stopping roles, and roleblocker implies a good amount of town PRs. honestly the whole scum roleset seems based around there being a ton of PRs. I won't give any suggestion to what they might be, and I think it's not a good idea to speculate on it further. That's my say on the matter. Now to try to read the game so far.

-GAMMA

[Battle Mage]

This is odd but I actually have 0 clue on who scum could be, and I think taylor vs BM was NAI. I have some weak townreads though.

you really think her openwolfing is NAI?

[xofelf]

Could just be dumb instead of scum. I don't underestimate people's abilities to just be bad.

I do think I need more time to have any sort of reads on anybody, but I do think I at least like where BM's head is at. Reminds me of a handful of other players that I've had good feelings about in the few games I've played this year.

Also hi Gamma <3

[PlusJOYED]

ya i think it doesn't mean anything @bm


hold up, upon iso checking, I think there is something I missed first read
-RC voting and defending himself then leaving is a tiny bit weird, could be nothing
-xoltelf is rather sus. specifically, the fact that they joined in like 2008 and pull a newbiecard, claiming they're rusty and they've never considered option B for meta, and seem very open minded. I don't expect people to be mafia gods just cause of an early join date but I do expect them to know what they're doing and their uncertain tone feels very fake to me.
VOTE: xoltelf

[Battle Mage]

taylor-murder-plusjoyed are my top 3 scumpicks right now

[Jewel Barons]

I like exorcists so far, I think they have an eagerness to progress through low information phase and past that's plus town.

I'm inclined to agree

Town pings on Tayl0r because she feels at ease in her early posting.

so maf have rolecop, roleblocker and non consecutive strongman. thats 5 so we must have 8
I don't wanna speculate on prs this early but I have a suspicion of 1 existing due to the mafia picking a strongman
ahh people beat me to it
ill toss this here for now
VOTE: murdercat

I dislike this because stating PlusJOYED doesn't want to speculate on prs directly contradicts the following statement of suspecting one exists due to there being a strongman. It doesn't take a genius to work that one out, so the former seems written more for appearances.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

-Lance

I see what you're saying about PJ but it seems a bit lacking in real sense. His spec was not very intensive, all he said was "there's probably a PR", which I sorta said even stronger in my breakdown of the setup knowledge. My only concern is him honing in on the strongman.

actually im very nervous but fortunately no one seems to have noticed my scumslip. i feel like i covered it up pretty well.

Where is your scum-slip?

-Lance

11

i can see the setup spec maybe not helping that much. but i really cant see it hurting, and im a bit suspicious of those who are pushing back against it. this is info SCUM ALREADY HAS. lets level the playing field? for VTs it wont help much, but for PRs theyll know what other PRs are in the game, at the very least.

This cuts into why I think speculating is a BAD idea. I think we have a limited number of VTs to the point where the apparent gain isn't as strong as one might initially think.

Also I'm not impressed by BM's treatment of Tay so far.

So I think "misrep" is a stretch.

Ok, maybe a misinterp then (I think it's clear what Tayl0r was saying and I don't think it was justifying the discussion around the setup).

town points for MCat on this

This is odd but I actually have 0 clue on who scum could be, and I think taylor vs BM was NAI. I have some weak townreads though.

I don't really like this post, it feels like he is compelled to give a status update just cuz. I also think the xof thing is picking at nothing, xof doesn't play a lot these days

btw hi xof
-GAMMA

[Battle Mage]

This cuts into why I think speculating is a BAD idea. I think we have a limited number of VTs to the point where the apparent gain isn't as strong as one might initially think.

Also I'm not impressed by BM's treatment of Tay so far.

This appears to be inconsistent. Will you explain yourself?

[MURDERCAT]

that's interesting on 2 counts.

Firstly, I thought you would have some opinion about the parallel with Noir Mafia situation, and be willing to share it, as you had recognised it too. I had an expectation of what your opinion might be, but am more surprised you didn't share one. Although I appreciate the need for balanced meta, that doesn't preclude you reflecting on whether 2 situations/behaviours are comparable.

Secondly, I struggle to see what you're getting at with the probability thing. Isn't that the same with any 2 random players? And if you aren't reading much into the interaction, why even bother picking me and Taylor? Getting a slightly weird vibe here that you're starting with the presumption of at least 1 of us being scum, which wouldn't accord.

Yeah I guess what I am saying is that I am specifically trying not to meta just based off of that one data point just because it is particularly salient. But yes I am noticing the parallel that you are seeing. I am also slightly worried that you might attempt to use that parallel as scum to make town taylor look bad, if I'm being perfectly honest. Not saying that's how I'm reading it, but that's why I'm being careful.

And yes, it is true that it works for any two players but you two had a very pointed interaction, that's why it makes sense to start there. So I'm not currently getting much out of it, but I might if I look at some meta and I'm going to be watching how you two continue to interact in the early game going forward. It's not an assumption that one of you is scum, just a starting point.