Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

[Flea The Magician]

My first thought with the first one was Vig.

PGO fits, as does serial killer.

[Roden]

I think A50 just outed himself tbh.

VOTE: Almost50

Outed himself how?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

Spoiler: Example Pms

Welcome, MegAzumarill, you are a

Town Silencer.

Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will attempt to kill that player.
Your action will fail if your target is not in a private thread with another living player.
Your pick was "Traffic Analyst"

You win when all threats to the town are dead.

Reply to this PM with your role name, alignment, and a short description of its abilities.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome, MafiAzumarill, you are a

Mafia Two Shot Trickster

Factional information: [REDACTED]
Each night, if no partner is performing this action, you may target another player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will kill that player.
Each night, you may also choose whether or not to "Trick" visitors. You may only use this ability twice.
Trick: Assuming no interference to your action, you will cause all players that target you with an action to instead target themself with that action, even if they cannot normally self target.
Your pick was "Bus Driver," as a non-town player, you know it was combined with "Paranoid Gun Owner."

You win when your faction has the same or greater number of living players as living town players, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Reply to this PM with your role name, alignment, and a short description of its abilities.

Please point to me in the spoiler where you believe the role states the role you have been fused with clearly.

What town role can directly kill people?

What role is naturally Reflexive?

PGO... ?

[Almost50]

I believe he was referring to the second one with "reflexive", Town got fused with Vig, scum got fused with PGO (according to mod) but I would have guessed Mirror because it's more fitting (Mirror makes you use the ability used on you on the user reflexively.. do unto them as they do unto you)

[Roden]

My first thought with the first one was Vig.

PGO fits, as does serial killer.

[Nordom]

Idk using "Keywords" for your argument just seems fake asf to me.

[Nordom]

I believe he was referring to the second one with "reflexive", Town got fused with Vig, scum got fused with PGO (according to mod) but I would have guessed Mirror because it's more fitting (Mirror makes you use the ability used on you on the user reflexively.. do unto them as they do unto you)

What does "Mirror" have to do with anything with what Roden posted?

[Roden]

Idk using "Keywords" for your argument just seems fake asf to me.

Yet you solved the fusions using key words lol

[Roden]

Idk using "Keywords" for your argument just seems fake asf to me.

Yet you solved the fusions using key words lol

Oop, thought you were Flea, nevermind.

Still, it really isn't hard to figure out fusions through what they do.

[Nordom]

Idk using "Keywords" for your argument just seems fake asf to me.

Yet you solved the fusions using key words lol

When you say "You" are you talking about me specifically?

[Almost50]

I believe he was referring to the second one with "reflexive", Town got fused with Vig, scum got fused with PGO (according to mod) but I would have guessed Mirror because it's more fitting (Mirror makes you use the ability used on you on the user reflexively.. do unto them as they do unto you)

What does "Mirror" have to do with anything with what Roden posted?

The Mafia SAMPLE Role PM speaks of a reflexive role that makes a player targeting the scum target themselves instead. The keyword is "reflexive". For Roden he claims his first thought would be PGO 9and apparently Flea also thought it). For me I would have thought Mirror was the "reflexive role" because the player ended up using their ability on themselves which is basically what a Mirror does. Uses the ability directed at them on the player originally using that ability on them.

The reason I would think Mirror over PGO is that the player targeting the PGO should always dies, not target themselves.

[Almost50]

A Mirror is a role that passively deflects all actions that target the Mirror back onto the player who used the action. (from the wiki), so I guess the fusion of a BD+PGO=Mirror in Meg's view?? *Shrug*

[Almost50]

@Roden: How do you read Ircher's call for an early massclaim of what everybody submitted?

[Roden]

Knowing who's madding the game I can't tell if there's a standard 10-3 distribution or not. Anything is possible with Meg, so I'll just leave it at that

Its in the rules.

The wording is very specific. It does not say that we don't have 3P or a second groupscum, just that a three person scum team exists.

[Roden]

@Roden: How do you read Ircher's call for an early massclaim of what everybody submitted?

It would let us box in scum early I guess, they would be limited in what they can claim later. However I think it would be better to wait until someone is run up and forced to claim. If no one can verify the second half of a fusion role claim, we'll know it's fake.

[Toogeloo]

Knowing who's madding the game I can't tell if there's a standard 10-3 distribution or not. Anything is possible with Meg, so I'll just leave it at that

Its in the rules.

The wording is very specific. It does not say that we don't have 3P or a second groupscum, just that a three person scum team exists.

I love that you can argue the ambiguity of role pms is still clear enough to tell what your specific fusions are, but the specifics of the rules should be considered ambiguous for the setup.

[Roden]

Knowing who's madding the game I can't tell if there's a standard 10-3 distribution or not. Anything is possible with Meg, so I'll just leave it at that

Its in the rules.

The wording is very specific. It does not say that we don't have 3P or a second groupscum, just that a three person scum team exists.

I love that you can argue the ambiguity of role pms is still clear enough to tell what your specific fusions are, but the specifics of the rules should be considered ambiguous for the setup.

It isn't ambiguous. If 3P or multiball were impossible, the set up would just say so.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Roden

[Roden]

Please don't elim me

[Nordom]

Idk using "Keywords" for your argument just seems fake asf to me.

Yet you solved the fusions using key words lol

Why do you assume I solved anything lol.

[Ircher]

Your pick was "Traffic Analyst

"

Your pick was "Bus Driver,"

as a non-town player

, you know it was combined with "Paranoid Gun Owner.

"

This is a pretty convincing case actually.

Any particular reason you cut out the ability description? You know, the part that explains your role fusion so you know what you've been fused with?

This implies to me that you are in fact scum that slipped. Why does Almost50 need to keep the fluff of the ability descriptions when the quoted amount is the most relevant part of his case?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

Nordom asked how not what. This doesn't answer the question. Also, if we're being reasonable, it's likely the case that Almost50 hasn't been around to respond to your counterargument.

[Roden]

Your pick was "Traffic Analyst

"

Your pick was "Bus Driver,"

as a non-town player

, you know it was combined with "Paranoid Gun Owner.

"

This is a pretty convincing case actually.

Any particular reason you cut out the ability description? You know, the part that explains your role fusion so you know what you've been fused with?

This implies to me that you are in fact scum that slipped. Why does Almost50 need to keep the fluff of the ability descriptions when the quoted amount is the most relevant part of his case?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

Nordom asked how not what. This doesn't answer the question. Also, if we're being reasonable, it's likely the case that Almost50 hasn't been around to respond to your counterargument.

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

Ability descriptions matter because they literally tell you your fusion.

[Nordom]

UNVOTE: Roden

VOTE: Ircher

[Almost50]

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

I'm on and off, yes (but I will be off after this post). I laid a case, people decided I am likely correct. You made your defense. People are entitled to decide whether they are convinced/satisfied. It's not like I am a 7x voter. I also made cases on both RR and Ircher. If you are town you should be more concerned about analyzing your wagon and deciding who is more likely to be scum sheeping town on town. I am not 100% in you (or anyone else this early) but I think I got something. If I misunderstood your words then try to explain them better.. not to me but to all of us who think that was s cum slip that you are now trying to remedy.

Let me direct you to where the problem started even before that "slip":

Are you a fusion of Miller and Godfather?

I may be, I don't know what I am a fusion of.

This is a lie but that's fine because you're probably town.

Uh, my role PM did not tell me what my pick was fused with. Yours did?

It's in my role name and ability description. The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with.

VOTE: Roden

that's one bad slip, my friend. ONLY SCUM know what their pick has been fused with.

You asked Nathann if their role was a result of a fusion between Miller and GF. They said they didn't know what the "other" role their pick was fused with is. You then both called them a liar and declared them town. Then you said "The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with."

My problemS: Nathann had already claimed their role. If you thought you can "deduce" the other role from the description you should have been able to do it yourself (to Nathann's role). You did come up with a suggestion even. BUT.. you called him a liar and asserted the Role PM made it clear. Mine doesn't and obviously many others agree theirs don't. So I took it that you were referring to the explicit mention of the other pick which only appears on Scum Role PMs and not the Town's. Furthermore; you declared Nathann a townie for no good reason UNLESS you knew it. Why does a Miller claim make Nathann town? And why did you accuse them of lying? And -if true- why is a townie lying about that specific detail?

Let me reiterate: If you came up with a guess and that's what you meant then why even expect Nathann to know better? Why are you calling them a liar? They described their role and said they didn't know because it wasn't mentioned in their role PM. It thus implies you in fact meant the explicit mention of it and wanted them to confirm the "Godfather" part. Problem is such confirmation only existed in the Scum Role PM. If that's not what you meant then you couldn't have called Nathann a liar to begin with. The why you called them town bit is a bonus.

Now if you're town please don't be impulsive. Please reread this post once more and try to comprehend each word. Once you've fully digested my train of thought then (and only then) please try to respond to my points one by one so that I may also try to see it from your PoV. If you're scum though I couldn't care less what you do or how you respond because my job is to catch scum (i.e. nothing personal).

Ability descriptions matter because they literally tell you your fusion.

Here we go again. They literally don't. You have to guess it. You yourself said you used keywords and searched the wiki which doesn't exactly sound like "literally telling you your fusion". If it literally did then why the hell would you need keywords and search?

Over.. and out for now

[Almost50]

UNVOTE: Roden

VOTE: Ircher

I don't mind that either, but I don't want to switch before I'm satisfied with the answer. I do not want to go round and round in circles all day, so I'm taking things one case at a time.

[Almost50]

Goodnight everyone