Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

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Jingle has lost two games to scum!me this year and had me locktown by play in one and locktown mechanically in the other so he's not who you should go to for advice on me btw.
They're scum as a team anyway, but if they were town Jingle is still not the correct answer. He also hard defended caughtscum deepwolf Volpe in 2070 :3

Nah man. Shouldn’t have come in here. Tonight was actually the best one - most substantive and least ad hominem - just fucking over this game. Never been in a 250 game, and really need to have an angel tel me your alignment so I can make sense of the thread. I feel like your the sun in that the game revolves around you (understandable given posting levels), but makes it hard to solve when I don’t know whether the sun is good or bad.

If it helps at all (it probably won't) I townread you and this and your last post just made that go from like 90% to 99%.

That post while probably genuine makes me scumread teacher more if RCE is scum

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I wish me you and skitter mutually townread each other because that would make this game a phenomenal amount easier for me.

Speaking of skitter where is she?

And I bet it would but her read progression on me is crap. Doesn’t make sense for a townie to have.

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I missed the most important part of 6245 by the way; the fact that he said that if she lynches me in a situation where she as SvS with me wants to be lynching me she is town.

Uhm...
I don’t think you read that right

He said after his town flip if Skitter doesn’t scumread you she is scum.

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Seriously RCEnigma what's your thought process behind that? Do we want to be tying ourselves together from here to endgame if we're SvS?
2 mislynches from one scum slot is plenty and Skitter is more than capable enough to get herself to endgame off of my scumflip.

Why would her going after me make her more likely to be town than if she didn't, and why is she scum in the first place when you already hard townread her ISO?

Uhm...
I don’t think you read that right

He said after his town flip if Skitter doesn’t scumread you she is scum.

That's the point. Why can't Town!Skitter be hard pocketed? Why doesn't Scum!Skitter want to bus me?

Not at all how that works considering Skitter’s content so far.

If RCE is town then I whole expect Skitter to bus you or the RC+Skitter theory is probably paydirt but in that world we flip you first every time

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If RCE is town then I whole expect Skitter to bus you or the RC+Skitter theory is probably paydirt but in that world we flip you first every time

yes exactly. we both came to the same conclusion because it's the obvious one, skitter is going to destroy me tomorrow if we're both scum and i push a mislynch today
whereas if she's town and she's been wrong all this way into the game, why is she necessarily supposed to fix that read now?

what i want you to ask yourself is why does rce think differently? is it because he's thinking super multilevel or is it because he's just scum giving a lazy read that looks ok at first glance

I don’t follow you and I gotta go

You’re agreeing with RCE yet calling it lazy.

Sorry bro. Just don’t follow

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Math, IDC if you think that I'm SvS with Saudade after he flips scum, but I do need you to vote there.

RCE is more -this shouldn't go to lylo- than -this must absolutely die today- to me.

Like I said before

I just want the day over with. My votes on who I want lynched until L-1 then a claim then if I don’t like it hammers. I don’t scumread Saude so I won’t vote there unless it’s to end the day

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If RC is town it’s likely RCE + prob teacher (mainly Titus read) + maaaaaybe shos (personal townread just trying to find third)

If RC scum it’s probably RC+Ari+1 prob Skitter maybe Saud.

I don’t trust you on Saud RC. If you’re town it really feels like a policy even though you say it’s not.

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Out the rest of the day.

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Shos is at least trying

Saudade has 0 scumhunting in his iso, Tris has 0 scumhunting in her iso, and you're looking past it because he's calling you town

Saud does. In his opinion He found you.

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Pls not Shos

I'm actually not sure this is scum and the gamestate is going to be hell if we flip town

You can trust me on Saudade

I'm gonna tell you what crushes gamestate

You not wanting to lynch your 'scumreads' the entire game

This +1

You take over the game with your latest “solve”

Then right at the finish line you abort it.

Then we try to hunt

You hate it

Then you repeat that over the game with latest “solve”

Seriously I just don’t hold confidence in that RC

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If RC is town it’s likely RCE + prob teacher (mainly Titus read) + maaaaaybe shos (personal townread just trying to find third)

I really really don't think this is it and you're going to tunnel me if we lynch a townie today so I need us to lynch scum today.

I agree we need scum. That’s why I am telling you I think your Saud wagon is crap.

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I'm telling you that if you derail onto Shos and they flip town which I think is about a coinflip town loses the game. There's already a bunch of votes on Saudade, we have Bella's implicit support, we literally just need one person to switch and hammer.

I don't think Shos is any worse than RCE but Saudade is clearly scum

Saud does. In his opinion He found you.

Reasons presented: none.
Reasons presented to townread Shos: none.
Reasons presented to scumread Skitter: none.

Saudade/Tris have done nothing outside of mediocre scum player range and as me and Skitter have told you repeatedly the fact that Saudade is being a whiny obnoxious git is straight up his scum meta. He'd be different as town. I've played with town him twice, I did not enjoy his presence but he wasn't even close to this.

That argument is 90% of most slots RC. (Hyperbole)

No one can talk with your playstyle

By that argument XtomX is a better lynch.

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I've been saying we're killing Saudade for at least the last couple of days and nothing has changed. Just because I'm calling out other people for scummy shit

Saud is still the biggest wagon

Same thing with Ari day one :/

I disagree with Saud.

The only thing that changes my mind is a flip.

I will hammer but won’t vote it except that.

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Shos has no meaningful content either
It’s all his buddies reads and voting a lurker.

Seriously RC. Titus thinks this is policy and at this point I agree with her.

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I am just a wee bit tipsy. Titus is driving and so like I think I owe Teacher a question of some kind but I am tired and there’s been more posting. I haven’t read any of it. Is there something simple people want to ask me?

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Woohoo I'm actually all caught up and it's taken me only 7 hours on and off!
VOTE: xtomx
I actually think a policy Lynch+night action results will be the best

What's your rationale behind this being the best course of events?

This game's D1 was a shitshow, and it appears that the lack ofnightkill basically made D2 the same as D1, nothing to go on. May as well lynch policy lurker, or even nolynch to get the numbers back to odd.

Nothing to go on, except you have gotten not 1 but 2! conftown today? Back to odds?

WHY ARE YOU ALL TELLING ME TO LEAVE THIS ALONE

Huh? Who? What are you talking about?

Have you read?

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What parts have you read?

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I quote literally asked you who those conftowns are and you ignored.

Shos is literally disgusting me, and I cannot believe we won't lynch this

Has not produced a SINGLE own read, and has been copying his team's work entire game. Isn't scumhunting. Is ignoring the FACT that this game has 2 confirmed towns, yet 'no information, so let's no lynch'.

Yeah.

These are just lies dude. You haven't been reading my posts have you

You also didn’t answer my serious question of what you read.

I would be okay with shos if he’s not caught up at start of next day.

Teacher I am too tired I am sorry.

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I quote literally asked you who those conftowns are and you ignored.

Shos is literally disgusting me, and I cannot believe we won't lynch this

Has not produced a SINGLE own read, and has been copying his team's work entire game. Isn't scumhunting. Is ignoring the FACT that this game has 2 confirmed towns, yet 'no information, so let's no lynch'.

Yeah.

These are just lies dude. You haven't been reading my posts have you

You also didn’t answer my serious question of what you read.

I would be okay with shos if he’s not caught up at start of next day.

Teacher I am too tired I am sorry.

What sort of answer do you expect? Post numbers? I read loads of shit, mostly recent, what do you think you can make of this?

I expect I started at X post or after Y event
I stopped after I read blah

Replace with details

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Honestly thinking ico is scum after nokilling N1.

@6462: yeah, I know that. I also know none of your alignments and whether or not scum had even made a kill. As I have stated, if you had read my posts, I think it is a perfectly viable option to nokill after a stupid information-less D1 like the one here;

especially since you know there is no cop (doesn't go with detective). So no, that perhaps makes RC likely town, but not confirmed

- and it definitely does not make you town in any way.

@6463:
I have read everything after page 200, perhaps most of pages 180-200. ISOed xtomx fully, skimmed through saudades ISO. Buts and pieces of various other things like posts which my teammates literally directed me to go read (mostly RCE and Ari I think) and any posts that get mentioned in recent discussions.
Does this help.?

@6465: I did know about it eventually. It just doesn't make anyone conftown. My teammates have townread both of you regardless of the claim iirc, so that didn't come up I guess since most talk was about their scumreads, not townreads.

@6466: nope. If you think 'caught up' means 'have read all 250 pages and remember them by heart's then yes, it's a lie; but on my end, I had to read up over the pages you guys blab when I'm asleep, iirc that was 217-237 and after than some 240-245 or something. Your mudslinging is noted

6467: some.more words twisting!!! Your misrep of 'will do nothing to the game's is not nearly what I said. I said stop looking for the entire scumteam - instead, hunt them one by one, here, take xtomx for ezample. Your misrep sucks ass.

@6469: you do realize that scum can probably kill people at night, yes?
If we nolynch we get the information of who gets killed. Since we are even number of players now, a death is practically equal to a cop result chosen by the mafia. Et voila, information!

The bolder looks like a scumslip that confirms RC town and Ico town (as if we needed more for RC)

You know implies that he already knew it.

VOTE: shos

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More for Ico*

Gah sleepy me.

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The other reason it is a slip is because if RC is scum a cop could be likely that didn’t counterclaim RC.

So shos knew something we didn’t and now says “you know” and needs to explain.

I gotta go to work.

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No dude that's not a slip at all

Townreading me and believing in my claim is not a scumslip

Then he’d say we know.

Not you know.

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That's a phrasing quirk not a slip

Doubt it. Let others decide

Because there is the slim possibility that since he said not confirmed and his phrasing you’re not town.

But unless shos is a PR that checked you and confirmed you that’s a scumslip and from how the slot is playing I doubt that.

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RC+shos+saud may be a real thing.

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No, Shos townreading me doesn't mean he checked me and confirmed me and no him saying that detective and cop don't coexist isn't a slip either.

Then how does he “know” your claim is valid before Ico?

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Because he thinks that I'm town.

I also at the start of the day was like hey there's a reasonably good shot that scum no killed based on my role, I'm not going to scumread someone for following the exact same train of thought that I did.

Then that’s a think not a know.

I really gotta go

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Shos pl vote for saud

Xtoxm is a wasted vote currently

Your vote isn’t on Saud either

And I still think it’s a slip.

A/The cop doesn’t necessarily have to directly CC RC.

I still think Saud is town and RC is policy lynching and teacher/RC/shos.

Either that or RC is bussing and RC/Ari/Saude w maybe Ico

And if I am wrong somewhere through in Skitter

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Shos pl vote for saud

Xtoxm is a wasted vote currently

Your vote isn’t on Saud either

And I still think it’s a slip.

A/The cop doesn’t necessarily have to directly CC RC.

I still think Saud is town and RC is policy lynching and teacher/RC/shos.

Either that or RC is bussing and RC/Ari/Saude w maybe Ico

And if I am wrong somewhere through in Skitter

Teacher/RCE/shos*

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Throw in**

I can’t f’in type today.

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And for FYI I called hammers on Saude. I don’t scumread them and don’t want to throw off VCA by voting a townread so the only way I vote Saud is with hammers.

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And before you get angry some teams seem like four scum this game feels like it has a traitor.

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Spoiler: violent phylum

Vote Count 2.15

Saudade

(5): RadiantCowbells, skitter30, Aristophanes, Flopz,Ico

shos

(2): MathBlade,teacher

RadiantCowbells

(1): RCEnigma

Xtoxm

(1): shos

Aristophanes

(1): Saudade

Not voting (3): Bellaphant, Xtoxm, teacher

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 4 PM PST on January 31st, in (expired on 2020-01-31 20:00:00).

Unofficial VC L-2 on Saud.

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Math plz

Its my dying wish

I will obey your dying wish as soon as I am able to.

It’s L-2.

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And that includes any L-1 claims.

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I'm not moving my vote for peace

You are so lucky RC exhausted everyone or your red flip would be up.

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I'm not moving my vote for peace

Frustrating.

Teacher, Bella, someone! Vote Saudade so Math can hammer plz

This day

Make it end

Please

L-1 then saud claims.

For the record if this flips Green I do not support an RC policy lynching unless RC doesn’t cede control to me/town.
I don’t care what solves RC has or doesn’t have. We likely won’t have the mislynch to spare.

If saud flips town my reads are lynch shos, lynch RCE, lynch teacher and if game still going lynch in Ico or Skitter and if game still going lynch the other.

While Skitter’s progression makes 0 sense it’s quite possible she just didn’t read at all or just wasn’t thinking.

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I will vote as well. We have time to allow for a claim. Let’s get one.

intent to L-1 or hammer - whatever. Saud claim.

Just L-1 teacher. As conf town I will have hammer so day ends when town wants.

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Inb4 he refuses to claim

Saud will claim or I will hammer

Teacher vote saud

Titus thinks shos/RCE/flops and likes 6511.

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Teacher if you do not vote Saud I will treat it as a scum claim that you want hammer.

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Interesting....

I think scum want hammer and that’s why this mislynch isn’t going through.

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Nope. Was just driving home from school.

VOTE: saud

l-1.

Ah alrighty.

Saud’s next post is a claim or I hammer.

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Also math, you aren’t conf!towb, just 99.99%

(No kill + doc target is possible, just vanishingly unlikely, same as town!rolestopper stopping kill on not!you, such that the save is irrel. I truly believe you’re clear, just pointing out the conf! Or mech!town isn’t 100%

Why are you shading me right now? Yes it’s not 100% but it’s so damn close to be irrelevant. If it’s irrelevant atm why bring it up?

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I don't mind if this loynch fails to go through, NL is an eligible option the way I see it. You're all going to get a big fat I TOLD YOU SO when you say 'shit, what do we do with this one' in lategame regarding xtomx

Nah if Saud is a mason it’s with XtomX.

The mason check would have to be confirmed anyway if real.

I highly doubt XtomX flips scum in this game.

Nice try though at bravado.

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I will vote as well. We have time to allow for a claim. Let’s get one.

intent to L-1 or hammer - whatever. Saud claim.

Just L-1 teacher. As conf town I will have hammer so day ends when town wants.

Because you said this and it isn’t true. I’m a stickler for accuracy (hence my round and rounds with RC on overstating and whether something was a reversal or wasn’t). You’ve said similar things before, and it’s not accurate and this time I felt like pointing it out, while at the same time sharing that I thought the distinction was not substantive/impt.

While I don’t doubt the authenticity of wanting accuracy I highly doubt you quibble over .01% here.

FoS Teacher

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It's true teqcher

I said as much to shos
I'm not conf town either

But really scum not killing?

If he thought that he’d be voting RC. Imho he doesn’t have a leg to stand on if Saud is actually a mason.

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Why I think 99.99999999 percent. I just object to calling someone an IC who is not actually mech cleared. Let’s drop it - it was meant to be a parenthetical not a thing worth taking up space in this already bananas thread.

I get what you meant. I just think you f’d up and are scum.

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If Saud Xtom myself Ico and RC are all conf town at end of day as I suspect we are then with 12 alive that’s 7 players left. 4 town three scum.

Scum very likely loses that.

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FoS Teacher

Again, you’ve been doing this for the last like 48 hours (with RCE and now in general) and I am again forced to ask you to back it up.

You said something objectively wrong. I called it objectively wrong while still saying I had you hard town. What is suspicious - or even “shading” about calling you 99% clear?

Kindly actually back it up - like I asked yesterday - or shut up.

My backing it up is something I could not do as I was on VLA yesterday.

Your associatives with shos and RCE are piss poor. It also explains the me kill to policy RC then coast.

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I don't mind if this loynch fails to go through, NL is an eligible option the way I see it. You're all going to get a big fat I TOLD YOU SO when you say 'shit, what do we do with this one' in lategame regarding xtomx

What is it with you and no lynching?

What is it with you and xtoxm!?

Wtf is it with you and not wanting to see Saudade lynched!?!?!?!?

Gut feeling Saud’s mason “joke” is fuckin legit.

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I gotta go but scum didn’t want Saud claiming mason so they wanted hammers is my theory.

Pedit
RC put your vote back.

This is getting way too late to switch wagons.

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You can get your answer tomorrow.

Saud needs to claim now and he said he only would at L-1

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I am 100% not switching wagons.

I have more to do before day ends.

Too bad. Shouldn’t have demanded saud and killed other discussion.

Put your vote back.

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Also what the fuck?

You think that Saudade might be Mason and you're discouraging me from unvoting him... why exactly?

Because if I am right the game becomes unwinnable with 5 conf towns.

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Unwinnable for scum* if shos is scum that makes you me Ico saud + mason buddy.

You won’t quit tunneling him and he will only claim at L-1

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.....???????

12 alive
5 confirmed town

Means 4 scum in 7 players remaining

Do the math.

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3 or 4 scum*

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Simple

Shos if scum slipped RC town.

So if Saud is a mason and mason buddy backs it up we lynch shos then very likely GG unless scumbuddy backs mason claim which would get caught rather fast

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.....???????

12 alive
5 confirmed town

Means 4 scum in 7 players remaining

Do the math.

I mean, wouldn't that make masons less likely here?

It’s quite possible saud is not a mason.

However doctor+2 masons+detective vs roleblocker,strongman,rolecop

Or something similar would be pretty balanced

Or RC could just be vt trying to draw the NK

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That’s why we need Saud’s claim.

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im mason

With who?

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unvote me you animals

Not gonna happen til you say who with.

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he's mason with me why did you wagon my mason buddy you baddies

Is this sarcastic or serious?

Leaning the former just have to make sure

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As Maths would say, woah RC stop Garciaing.

No one garcia’d?

I am just going to take that as sarcasm otherwise it is throwing

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The sarcasm is in regards to RC’s statement

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Math is scum for trying to L1 my mason buddy Saudade even though he knew he was Mason's with me btw

I am legit confused?

If the mason partner confirmed we weren’t lynching Saud obviously.

That’s why I asked if serious?

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Like why tunnel your mason buddy all day and no other wagons?

Huh?

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Ffs I specifically said 5 conf town makes the game unwinnable for scum and saud was on that list.

How in the world did you get lynch Saud from that?

The idea was claim.

Like why the fuck did you wagon your mason buddy all day?

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I am completely confused...

Like what? Why would we lynch your mason buddy if you’re masons RC?

Is the claim legit?

Pedit oh.

You gambit way too damn much.

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This isn't a Gambit this is just a joke that I didn't expect you to take seriously

My locktownreads in {RC Ico Math Flopz Skitter} are very very probably not wrong.

I agree with all but teacher and Skitter.

One probably I am wrong on but not both.

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Especially if Saud is scum I got some reevaluating to do

But teacher pushing me as not conf town when I said saud might be a mason is disgusting

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Hey guys
VOTE: NO LYNCH
VOTE: xtomx

Any of these can work

Shos had some bad interactions wrt to the saud lynch, but he's pretty adamant on lynching Xtoxm throughout his ISO.
Xtoxm might be the superiour lynch today

If Xtoxm scum, I doubt it's with shos?

I think shos is better.

VOTE: shos

Reason being is Xtom was mentioned to have lurker meta whenever RC is in the game.

On the other hand RC dying is a further indication shos scum that spewed RC town.

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Why do you think you weren’t shot Ico?

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Math, please don't do this AGAIN.

Don’t do what? I only stated an opinion?

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Respectfully concede, nice Lynch guys, didn't think it was a good one

Ico why are you scumreading me? What changed that made you like the xtomx vote suddenly?
I again go VOTE: xtomx ofc

I have input from my team from before the Lynch, perhaps this evening I'll get it posted. Have been postponed for like a week or more

Math why do you scumread me?

Because you scumslipped yesterday.

This post here also is terrible that over two days you don’t have a single read of your own? Really. Why is it all “your team”?

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You have exactly ZERO reasons left to distrust RC.

Shos and Xtoxm are both in his and most players scumpools.
Shos thinks Xtoxm is scum as well, and shos has AI content. Reread Xtoxm ISO. How is that town?

How is shos superiour lynch?

Shos is superior because shos has bad content
And Xtom has no content and is null because RC was in the game.

I don’t distrust or trust RC. He’s literally one person. I don’t worship nor disregard. He contributes not dictates.

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Because you scumslipped yesterday.

Stop. Ur wrong. You were wrong about saudude, you are wrong about that scumslip.

We lynch xtoxm today. If that happens to be town, shos eats rope.

It's just a better lynch.

Respectfully it’s just not. Going to go to bed.

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Too many posts for me to read before work.

Is there anything I need to respond to urgently here?

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I’d like to know quickly how you feel about skit and me post flip and pre read.

Gut says one of you is scum the other is town. I don’t think you’re TvT or SvS because of pings yesterday. Just which I have no idea

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I was kinda hoping I was killed and wouldn’t have to relook into stuff.

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I’d like xtomx unvoted after the neighbor claim, to wait for counters.

I find that particular targeting, along with nothing happening, questionable. I would think sau would try to pick an influencer rather than a silent slot. But maybe scum were confident in an RC turbo lynch and building a later plan?

I don’t think it’s clearing, but on balance I do think it’s slightly town indicative. My problem is with the nothing happening. If xtomx’s reason for avoid the thread was RC, why not comment there (perhaps vLa, but I just don’t like it generally). Xtomx, you want to comment on that?

Don’t get me wrong haven’t read and I think Xtom should post content but why are you assuming there was a neighbor at all? And what benefit would Scum get from hooding Xtom? Xtom claiming/being a neighbor is weird.

Again I haven’t read what prompted it but that is weird.

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What’s more likely is that scum would try to influence a top level poster like me to fuck me up? But how does that fail with just a doc claim because I wasn’t hooded

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I am actually down to vote Xtom I think.

What is their vote count at?

Oh and Xtom scum means that somehow we need to look at how I was “saved” again because scum absolutely would have hooded someone and a doc claim wouldn’t stop it.

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Site mechanics question - when a new person is neighborized, is the neighborhood changed or can they see the prior thread? Like I could see a scum multi-day plan to neighborize their partner first if a towny could see it on a later day, to be anti-associatives, but for that to work the neighborhood would have to have chat (staged from the scum pt) put into it to be more effective. And given the slots general effort/involvement this game, I am definitely buying into the fact that the neighborhood was quiet.

Get the old thread is standard

Happened to me in the game in my signature

But either way irrelevant as saud was lynched on day two.

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i do like initially like bellas claim
but theres also a scum motivation in putting doubt on ico/math in the universe their both town
so massclaim probably should be finished today
to lock scum into claims if nothing else
but like whatever.

this is shading and fencesitting, scummy

well saud wasnt in the game yet, it was tris, but she never actually posted there so your guess is as good as mine.
i posted once to acknowledge its existence.
saud didnt seem particularly..friendly to talk to.

scum don't just neighbourize, they tend to want something from it. Otherwise they just don't use their action. Hard to believe neither scum used it

Makes me think there is a traitor in the game. It would be a way to add talk to them if playing traditionally

If I was scum though I neighborize anyone and everyone. I have had enough games as scum with hoods for people to see. Scum neighborizer is a very powerful role when used correctly

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I was kinda hoping I was killed and wouldn’t have to relook into stuff.

how are you EVER the kill, with 2 claimed PR's

Never said it was a logical hope. Still was a hope.

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tris wouldn't have NB'd Xtoxm and then not say anything

In that I agree.

I just wanna know what xtom is at.

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vt

What are your reads right now?

And who was the first person that mentioned your meta is to lurk if RC was in the game?

[MathBlade]

I was only night 1 and 2, technically I was an alien but it worked as a jk. If icos town pr also has limits on it, that makes sense?
Ive been town reading you since day one ico, but you must be able to see why I'm a bit concerned right now.

Not masses, but I'll go back and find, ico

I am thinking scum attempted to hood me if you jailkept me
Then Ico as traitor was shot (or if Ico was not shot the traitor was)

This makes sense for the lack of kill and I was saved I am just thinking wrong save

RCE+ico+Xtom?

VOTE: xtom

[MathBlade]

I think Xtom’s flip (if scum) will confirm that and lock!town Bella and then we look at RCE and Ico tomorrow

[MathBlade]

math are you actually scum here?

are you scum who tried to stop saud from being lynched and are now doing the same with xtoxm?

If we lynch xtoxm today, and that flips scum, math is like ++scum with Bella's claim in play wtf

Nope I am not but if Xtom is scum I am more than happy to eat a lynch for my bad reads.

[MathBlade]

I was only night 1 and 2, technically I was an alien but it worked as a jk. If icos town pr also has limits on it, that makes sense?
Ive been town reading you since day one ico, but you must be able to see why I'm a bit concerned right now.

Not masses, but I'll go back and find, ico

I am thinking scum attempted to hood me if you jailkept me
Then Ico as traitor was shot (or if Ico was not shot the traitor was)

This makes sense for the lack of kill and I was saved I am just thinking wrong save

RCE+ico+Xtom?

VOTE: xtom

I'm confused about a lot of this. You were never jailkept. Wdym by traitor? Sausage was scum so how does that fit into that team of 3?

Bella just claimed JK/Alien but not who right? Mainly my save doesn’t add up here when it’s much more likely Xtom is scum and I would be a neighborize attempt. That only fails if I was jailkept or scum just didn’t use it altogether. I don’t see neighborizing Xtom as a proscum move.

[MathBlade]

I jk rce first, then ico. The neighborising that slot is super strange? Scum neighboriser is so powerful and seems so wasted

Xtom, what exactly is your issue with my claim? You've shaded it twice now but not explained why.

Then my theory is wrong. Lol moonlogic

So RCE could be the killer and attempted to kill anyone else and then Ico was milking me for cred and Xtom could be telling the truth and town. Odds are he is scum but RCE+Ico look really bad.

[MathBlade]

I jk rce first, then ico. The neighborising that slot is super strange? Scum neighboriser is so powerful and seems so wasted

Xtom, what exactly is your issue with my claim? You've shaded it twice now but not explained why.

Then my theory is wrong. Lol moonlogic

So RCE could be the killer and attempted to kill anyone else and then Ico was milking me for cred and Xtom could be telling the truth and town. Odds are he is scum but RCE+Ico look really bad.

Why did I bother saving you from rc if I'm scum?

Simple answer you didn’t.

RC just is RC.

[MathBlade]

Omg math is actually scum

RCE+Ico

Lynch me today/tomorrow then speed lynch RCE and Ico.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: math

@teacher i am fine with massclaim, might as well since it seems like most of town power is out at this point

Oooh RCE Skitter Ico hot damn!

[MathBlade]

VOTE: RCE

[MathBlade]

I was kinda hoping I was killed and wouldn’t have to relook into stuff.

Um ...
There's really no universe where u were the nk last night

I feel like ur trying to push this 'obvs i am conftown narrative' that doesnt really match with the facts, like now, and yesterday when u freaked out that i questioned you being conftown before ico confirmed he was on you

Again didn’t say my hope was logical. I was drained from this game

[MathBlade]

You realize that a scum flipped, right ?

Yes and I think there is a traitor.

[MathBlade]

I was kinda hoping I was killed and wouldn’t have to relook into stuff.

Um ...
There's really no universe where u were the nk last night

I feel like ur trying to push this 'obvs i am conftown narrative' that doesnt really match with the facts, like now, and yesterday when u freaked out that i questioned you being conftown before ico confirmed he was on you

Again didn’t say my hope was logical. I was drained from this game

Drained? Upon a scum flip? I felt regenerated when I saw that

The entire reason Xtom is suspicious is the entire reason I doubt my save is genuine

None of what anyone claims makes sense and Xtom being scum is too “easy”

[MathBlade]

Math plz talk about your relation to the both lunches that happened?

I don’t understand the question and gotta go

[MathBlade]

Ico it's worth to restate that you only claimed protective in D2 and not Doc. So you wouldn't have gotten counterclaimed "on the spot" anyways as people may have assumed you were Doc, you never outright stated it. You only claimed Doc today. I wouldn't put it past a very good scum player to think that as nobody claimed Doc in D2 when everyone assumed they were Doc that nobody was in fact Doc. Still very risky tho but less risky than an outright claim yesterday.

This is wrong
Ico claimed doc d2

[MathBlade]

What’s really telling is that if I am scum (which I am not)

Then scum don’t kill me.

Then where’s the missing kill in that case? RCE would have to be scum in that world except Ico and Skitter attack me.

It’s rather telling.

[MathBlade]

Ico it's worth to restate that you only claimed protective in D2 and not Doc. So you wouldn't have gotten counterclaimed "on the spot" anyways as people may have assumed you were Doc, you never outright stated it. You only claimed Doc today. I wouldn't put it past a very good scum player to think that as nobody claimed Doc in D2 when everyone assumed they were Doc that nobody was in fact Doc. Still very risky tho but less risky than an outright claim yesterday.

This is wrong
Ico claimed doc d2

I looked at the ISO eariler on today. Maybe I missed it. Can you link it. The closest I saw was in one instance where Ico was calling themselves a doc hypothetically and not actually.

I can’t I am at work but there was a discussion about Ico being jk possibly then afterward iirc he specifically claimed doctor

[MathBlade]

What’s really telling is that if I am scum (which I am not)

Then scum don’t kill me.

Then where’s the missing kill in that case? RCE would have to be scum in that world except Ico and Skitter attack me.

It’s rather telling.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that rce could have been saved

And you’re leaving out the fact Bella could be scum. We’re making judgments based upon what we know. I know I am town. And in response to skitter I am literally considering I am not conf town so...

[MathBlade]

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

[MathBlade]

Math plz talk about your relation to the both lunches that happened?

I don’t understand the question and gotta go

You were on town lunch

Strong against scum lynch

And were blocking obv scum push in Xtoxm by diverting to shos who was starting to town up

Math thoughts?

I don’t think Xtom is obv scum. Suspicious yes. ObvScum no. I don’t think Xtom would scum claim like that if scum I think he would say just not neighborized.

[MathBlade]

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

That is not a Doctor claim.

Are we like not reading English here?

If I say Vanilla Townie MathBlade I claim VT...like not rocket science

[MathBlade]

Plus with context to claim the inno Ico couldn’t be JK or a form of protective that stops a kill. He would have had to been rolestopper or something else in which case he’d have said rolestopper!Ico on a platter to them

That was 100% a doc claim on D2

[MathBlade]

Also math ur voting rce which go called Town by both rc and worst, and who is probably protected by a power role

Why?

I don't remember RC going that far with RCE. Just saying that RCE would be treated as Town as RC couldn't go into him from his current position in the game due to his lack of Town cred.

It’s actually the opposite RC pushed RCE as scum.

[MathBlade]

Flopz

Can you tell me what I have to gain by claiming protective on math?

Permission to Garcia?

[MathBlade]

One of my bigger weaknesses is townreading people nice to me.

Iirc I said so day one and if not day two certainly.

Pick up on that then I am scum puppet.

[MathBlade]

This isn't a LAMISTy question but a Noobie one. In these types of games is it normal for there to be so many VTs?

Yes. 3/4ths of the game VT/not PR is a good guesstimate usually.

[MathBlade]

also could people explicitly say they weren’t neighvorizsd.

Not neighborizer.

[MathBlade]

Or neighborized fuck autocorrect

[MathBlade]

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

That is not a Doctor claim.

.

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in
VOTE: Math
I'm more sure of this now actually
his partner probably RCE

This vote doesn’t make sense.

Why not help me ‘bus’ RCE?

[MathBlade]

Math why arent u questioning my vote really ?

Not neighborized

Why would I argue with a scumread? You’re just going to bs another reason to scumread me.

My wagon is my scumreads atm except Flopz. His reasoning was bad and pointed out such.

When I flip green then it lends a strong indication Xtom was setup for a mislynch and my pool of RCE/you/Ico has at least one scum if not more. I am a VT so in the scheme of things if scum wanna waste a mislynch on me and out themselves go ahead. I am just going to help my townreads while you push.

[MathBlade]

Just got home can’t keep up.

Traitor imho is required or Bella+Ico has to have a scum.

One protective + 1 shot strongman = balanced
Two protectives + perma strongman = balanced

Kill failed latter not possible. So traitor required and/or one scum in Bella/Ico required

Of the two Ico is most likely considering Xtom likely lynchbait

With all the townreads of Ari I was likely not the kill forcing RCE scum so RCE + Ico

Traitor is skitter because skitter knows my scum game and this ain’t it and RC was also beginning to suspect Skitter before he died

[MathBlade]

Almost no scum team here kills me unless I was right on Ari. I am considered the town idiot. I just kinda doubt I was right in two of my three day one reads

[MathBlade]

V/LA until Tuesday

Will be posting just a lot less

[MathBlade]

RC was also beginning to suspect Skitter before he died

Ummmm, RC's last read post:

My locktownreads in {RC Ico Math Flopz

Skitter

[/size]} are very very probably not wrong.

Say wha????

Yes RC was beginning to suspect Skittet that is cherry picked

And eod RC was hunting Skitter

[MathBlade]

Can you get her to explain the skitter townread in her own words and then you paraphrase it for me, if possible?

Here Teacher

He also was worried about some posting from Skitter EoD

[MathBlade]

Almost no scum team here kills me unless I was right on Ari. I am considered the town idiot. I just kinda doubt I was right in two of my three day one reads

again it's possible you weren't the person tehy tried to kill ...

That’s literally what that said.

It says it almost never happens that I am the kill

Therefore if I was the kill then Ari would be scum.

[MathBlade]

or that they were prevented by being alien'd or something

there's no reason to think at this point that you were the one they tried to kill n1 and basing other scumreads on that and a bunch of other wild assumptions seems really bizarre

Then that’s why my vote is on RCE.

If RCE is town then one of me or RCE was shot making our d1 reads good.

I just think the most logical explanation is scum!RCE was jailkept rather than me being right day one

I gotta go

[MathBlade]

Ari, what do you think of the neighbor claim (I think you asked the question of what went on, but dont recall a reaction from you). Im still inclined to view it as town indicative from xtom, and agree shos>xtomx

I mean, I believe the claim well enough. In that if xtoxm is scum the neighbourizer was not used and he is covering, but if the neighbourizer was used I guess it's towny in that scum don't neighbourize other scum. No reason other than that tho.

Neighborizer absolutely would have been used it is multitasking.

[MathBlade]

That’s over strength. Alien on RC allows follow the invest.

Why wasn’t Bella on RC?

[MathBlade]

Lol no just no Alien is one of the most powerful role there is.

Very easily self confirming.

Two protectives + JOAt is op as fuck. Would need a traitor to balance along with three PRs at minimum like fuck.

Really gotta go

[MathBlade]

Alien on RC allows follow the invest.

Nope, Alien rolestops RC.

Oh right riiip. *facepalm*

Still OP as it self confirms

[MathBlade]

3. What does Ico's alignment have to do with xtomx's? Like at all?

Bad push today on lynch bait and not agreeing = scummy which is false.

[MathBlade]

Lol no just no Alien is one of the most powerful role there is.

Very easily self confirming.

Two protectives + JOAt is op as fuck. Would need a traitor to balance along with three PRs at minimum like fuck.

Really gotta go

Like I said not a set-up guy. Can I crowdsource this one? My instinct is Math's wrong, but Id like confirmation.

And it self-confirms only if it targets a town PR, ya? In other words, quite literally only in the roughly 10% chance Bella happened to target RC?

No. Bella, if town, would also be self confirming for end game because of the scum neighborizer that flipped. Saud (if he had still been alive) can’t have neighborized any of Bella’s targets or it she would be scum and the hood would prove it. There may also be PR claims hidden. Quite literally she will be confirmed or scum due to interactions.

I had to be careful with Alien when I was scum with it in Shadowrun for that reason.

I am out.

[MathBlade]

Bella didn’t claim 2 shot.

She claimed her two actions (assuming she is truthtelling).

Furthermore even if two shot then you’re looking at assuming Bella+Ico both town a HUGE no kill percentage N1/N2

This gets balanced with a traitor almost every time.

I may be wrong on my reads and if you lynch me for that so fucking be it but there is no way scum isn’t given some compensation for the huge N1/N2/Plus no kill shot with two protectives. One shot strongman doesn’t even begin to balance that even if Bella is two shot which doesn’t match her claim.

[MathBlade]

Joat + jailkeep/Alien vs Neighborize and traitor still makes sense because of alien confirmability. Maybe add a secret vig to give RC a possible guilty.

[MathBlade]

I say secret Vig because they would have to become essentially a VT if their shot failed.

[MathBlade]

I think none of this makes sense
Setup is imbalanced as fuck
RC killed my joy for even trying
This is not a scum claim I am town I just don’t understand anything
Titus says teacher+Ari which is impossible due to setup balance
Yet teacher says things that don’t make sense
None of you make sense
I am just going to not post for 24 hours and see if it makes sense Saturday.

Like none of you make sense at all. I hate that I am hitting a wall I can’t break on this site and others I am clear

It just sucks.

Lynch RCE after me if you speed lynch me while afk

[MathBlade]

Would you kindly address the question of scum!icos motive for crumbing and then claiming protective first?

Maybe they weren’t crumbs and he took advantage of my theory.

I legit don’t know but setup spec says can’t have two protectives N1 and N2

Otherwise you end up with a 25% kill fail rate which seems broken.

[MathBlade]

Setup is imbalanced as fuck

2 shot alien
a doc that can't target PR's
a JOAT

v

neighbourizer
and ?? (really think strongman would make a TON of sense here)

How is this SO unbalanced you cannot possibly comprehend this?
The alien interferes with town power as well mind you.

What good would a strongman be for scum here?

They would have to fail a kill to know to use it. Then when they’ve failed it’s already too late. Strongman is almost never the answer to protectives, especially not two. Because then N1 kill almost certain to fail.

Alien protects two and doc a third. If we are generous and say three scum and not four then the mislynch you have 12 into night, three scum that means 9 possible town to shoot. Three people saved means only a 66% shot of success of which scum would have no way of knowing. And you’re considering that balanced by “just” a strongman? Quite frankly that is CRAP. I feel like I am living in bananas world here

[MathBlade]

That also doesn’t include the possibility that RCE is scum here like Jesus.

I mean I like free wins and all but daaaaamn. Sorry NRG you done fucked up.

[MathBlade]

Alien protects both the person they jail and then if anyone visits something is up. Like just no. You can say my reads don’t make sense but there is no way NRG would approve scum likely not having a kill N1 just no.

[MathBlade]

Can you please just answer how my actions make ANY sense to you as scum?

Why did I crumb? Why did I claim? Why did I save you from RC? All as scum? KNOWING there's at least 1 actual protective out there as well.

I don’t know.

However I used that same argument in Shadowrun. When I crumbed jailkeeper Day One.

Then I coasted.

I may not be able to explain but I know something isn’t right here.

[MathBlade]

there is no way NRG would approve scum likely not having a kill N1 just no.

That's true. If only certain roles existed to counter this… Oh yeah. Strongman.

No that doesn’t work

Strongman is almost always limited shot

If you don’t know the night to use it it’s useless

Strongman doesn’t counter two protectives. One maaaaaybe if you weaken it or give scum more power

But one shot strongman would not work against two protectives N1.

By that logic make everyone a protective.

It’s okay! Scum have a strongman! /s

[MathBlade]

Math, can you understand your behaviour today is really strange to everyone?

You were HEAVILY invested into this game when RC was alive. Now there's a scum lynch, RC (the one who was draining you this game) is dead.

And now ur done with this game?

How do you think that looks?

I played this game as a favor to Titus.

I didn’t know RC was going to be in it.

I kept fighting for her because there was purpose.

Kept trying to work with RC because I wanted to be able to save something there

But this is just the same ol shit

I just am tired of trying to work here when other sites just make sense and this one just always feels backwards

After this game I am done with mafia for a loooooong time

[MathBlade]

Can you please just answer how my actions make ANY sense to you as scum?

Why did I crumb? Why did I claim? Why did I save you from RC? All as scum? KNOWING there's at least 1 actual protective out there as well.

I don’t know.

However I used that same argument in Shadowrun. When I crumbed jailkeeper Day One.

Then I coasted.

I may not be able to explain but I know something isn’t right here.

I didn't just crumb. I crumbed, then crumbed heavily, then straight out claimed investigative with extreme pointers to being doc. After there was no NK. And right now it turns out there isn't another doc.

Yet you scumread me. How?

Because I have done it as scum.

Like you or Bella HAVE to be scum.

I said I wasn’t going to post I need to stop

[MathBlade]

And I don’t give a fuck.

Like literally you’re just doing what’s easy versus what’s right

There’s no way if Xtom is scum he claims neighbor none

Then you’re scumreading me for disagreeing

I am always gonna disagree with lynchbait

And always going to disagree with a setup that denies scum the N1 night kill

I don’t give a shit about how I look I care about reality.

And that is for N1 and N2 there were two protectives which means a greater than 25% chance of failure which means at least a three shot strongman to guarantee an N1-3 kill of some kind or scum don’t get kills which means they lose.

I like the win but this does not pass setup. Ever. Two protectives first two days just does not balance.

[MathBlade]

Strongman doesn’t counter two protectives

only there aren't 2 full protectives.

A 2 shot alien and a weaker doc amounts to just about 1 full doc (maybe slightly over?)

Your insistence that this is just absolutely never ever EVER possible when EVERYONE else is telling you this is p good balance especially if scum have an additional power, is extremely weird for town to have.

Then you also went so hard against the scumlynch yesterday. You were on the worst lynch.
Now today you AGAIN go against town early when we were pushing xtoxm.

You NEVER worked together with the townblock.

After having the information that ur actually not conftown, I'm having a hard time seeing your play this game as town.

Then “everyone” can suck it

Enjoy my green flip because #done with townsided setups.

I like the win but seriously should look at RCE here once I flip

Because either I was saved
RCE is scum
Or RCE saved are only worlds

And RCE was quiet day one

My flip does a lot for this game.

Lynch RCE tomorrow after my flip

Then in Bella/Ico and game fucking over.

[MathBlade]

Unless of course I am right and there is scum traitor and it’s Skitter

Oh no! Math can’t be right!

[MathBlade]

There’s no way if Xtom is scum he claims neighbor none

Scum didn't use their ability, safe claim.

Doesn’t make sense
Multitasking

If not multitasking you have a point but you don’t because of that.

[MathBlade]

Further espe thoughts:

The lack of kill N1 was caused by either RCE or math being the NK target, or RCE being the killer. First 2 are more unlikely then the latter.

A bit of a repeat, but espe is explicit in this.

Espe directly @math: GET OFF YOUR SETUP TUNNEL AND LOOK BACK TO N1

@espe Please look at my vote and what I am asking for?

Yeah that’s right RCE

You may disagree with how I got there but I am on RCE. Far as I am concerned my or RCE’s lynch are the only ones that move the game forward.

If RCE is town then we know RCE or I was shot (May have to mislynch me to prove that) then in that case listen to where RCE and I had similar reads day one as one of us would be shot

If RCE is scum then RCE scum team tried to shoot RC is likely the answer as I already stated the possible worlds.

Like I will take halfway to where I am at like then I know I make some sense

[MathBlade]

or that they were prevented by being alien'd or something

there's no reason to think at this point that you were the one they tried to kill n1 and basing other scumreads on that and a bunch of other wild assumptions seems really bizarre

Then that’s why my vote is on RCE.

If RCE is town then one of me or RCE was shot making our d1 reads good.

I just think the most logical explanation is scum!RCE was jailkept rather than me being right day one

I gotta go

@espe Please like continue how I don’t make sense here and then just literally take my argument.

That is irritating as fuck

[MathBlade]

If scum have to decide a NK between you or RC, occam razor suggests scum tried RC n1.

Which implicates you as scum :s

Well I know scum didn't try RC night one. Which is why I'm still hesitant to call math as scum. Fmpov the only two scenarios are I was targeted, which means nothing for maths alignment.

Or math was the target and there are two potential clears from that.

And how would you know what scum did and didn’t try?

Pedit: Ico I don’t make sense as town
But sometimes I still get the right answer.

I try to cater to other people as town and try to speak in their language and it works on other sites
Here it’s moon logic and frustrating

[MathBlade]

It's about your traitor thoughts, your setup spec, your turn on me, your being drained despite your nemesis being Nk'd and having a scumflip etc

those things all make no sense

can you at least understand that ?

No.

I am an Aspie

I literally have a limited bank and does not recharge like a normal person.

It’s literally painful to do some things that RC requested and a day off doesn’t fix that
Closer to win con doesn’t fix it

Think of it like a piggy bank
RC being RC and his way or highway -500
Getting scum flip +100

I am still negative 400 where as those numbers are different for others

[MathBlade]

The other stuff is literally disagree on setup spec

Which Mafiascum is known for townsided shit soooo *shrug*

[MathBlade]

I’d rather focus on prob scum RCE than where we disagree on spec because however many people agree from the same deluded idea of balance that doesn’t carry over to other sites will just drag the game down

Does it really matter if we nail scum?

[MathBlade]

Ughh this is a tough spot because like. I don't really want to tooth and nail fight my lynch, I know I'm a liability in lylo by virtue of being aliened on a nk night.

But we also only have 2 mislynches and I would take 1 of those away. The nks are already likely just Bella and Ico so no info to be gained and I don't feel my flip makes anyone's alignment any clearer.

After I flip the bulk of the conversation is going to repeat because it doesn't solve if I was the save or not. Shos/Xtoxm still has to be resolved. Math/Ari likely needs to be resolved and that only clears alignment 1 way I think. And if math is Town here with a save on him there is still a real possibility he gets lynched after I do and that puts town in a hole.

In that case, shos/Xtoxm isn't approached until Mylo and it's a do or die decision that absolutely has to hit scum.

If that world happens lynch shos every time
Xtomx would be lynch bait

I doubt that happens though

[MathBlade]

I’d rather focus on prob scum RCE than where we disagree on spec because however many people agree from the same deluded idea of balance that doesn’t carry over to other sites will just drag the game down

Does it really matter if we nail scum?

It does, we have 2 mislynches and that's it.

You realize you have to go. Before Lylo.

Now I wonder why if you’re town you’re not questioning why Bella didn’t demand your lynch D2?

No you gave up because you’re scum

[MathBlade]

ok let's assume we lynch RCE and that flips scum

who's the third?

If we go with Mafiascum “balance” Skitter or a deep wolf or shos

I don’t see a lurker scum here and I don’t trust my d1 when I was disagreeing with Titus enough to see a shos/Xtoxm much as I think shos slipped other people don’t see it that way but shos would be a good compromise

If we go with my idea Skitter + someone else

Skitter knows my scum game too well and if I was scum I kill her each time
She’s one of the few people who read me right and the fact she is failing now is bad

[MathBlade]

Mainly I don’t see Skitter town

If we throw away mechanics I would Vig her and lose zero sleep

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=9761523#p9761523

She literally has gut feelings on me that are right after a single push

I don’t see teacher breaking up me and RC fighting if scum

Titus sees teacher scum but it seems moonlogicky to me

[MathBlade]

I’d rather focus on prob scum RCE than where we disagree on spec because however many people agree from the same deluded idea of balance that doesn’t carry over to other sites will just drag the game down

Does it really matter if we nail scum?

It does, we have 2 mislynches and that's it.

You realize you have to go. Before Lylo.

Now I wonder why if you’re town you’re not questioning why Bella didn’t demand your lynch D2?

No you gave up because you’re scum

Because Bella doesn't know if I made the kill or I was saved. All she can do is question her previous read and make an assumption based on day play which is more likely. Which I acknowledged.

But she never talked about you? It’s odd.

Like no one that is a PR is playing like one

It’s weird.

[MathBlade]

I’d rather focus on prob scum RCE than where we disagree on spec because however many people agree from the same deluded idea of balance that doesn’t carry over to other sites will just drag the game down

Does it really matter if we nail scum?

It does, we have 2 mislynches and that's it.

You realize you have to go. Before Lylo.

Now I wonder why if you’re town you’re not questioning why Bella didn’t demand your lynch D2?

No you gave up because you’re scum

Because Bella doesn't know if I made the kill or I was saved. All she can do is question her previous read and make an assumption based on day play which is more likely. Which I acknowledged.

But she never talked about you? It’s odd.

Like no one that is a PR is playing like one

It’s weird.

I can't be scum via a blocked nk AND Bella is lying about their role simultaneously. Which is what you're implying there.

No. I am implying you’re not thinking about things through and considering them.

And yes that is true it can’t be both. I am demonstrating your lack of townieness

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ok let's assume we lynch RCE and that flips scum

who's the third?

If we go with Mafiascum “balance” Skitter or a deep wolf or shos

I don’t see a lurker scum here and I don’t trust my d1 when I was disagreeing with Titus enough to see a shos/Xtoxm much as I think shos slipped other people don’t see it that way but shos would be a good compromise

If we go with my idea Skitter + someone else

Skitter knows my scum game too well and if I was scum I kill her each time
She’s one of the few people who read me right and the fact she is failing now is bad

For a Skitter + me team shos has to be town and saudade elected to push RC's buttons over securing a lynch on town.

For me + shos shos has to be scum at L-1 in a scenario that makes bussing who's profitable and saudade elected to push RC's buttons instead of garnering towncredit.

I guess that one kind of depends on who has what role in that scenario.

For the first if that is Saud’s town meta as people claim I would buy it as it denies information to analyze
For the latter again I don’t know Saud never played with them

Soooo *shrug*

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viewtopic.php?p=9761523#p9761523

She literally has gut feelings on me that are right after a single push

I don’t see teacher breaking up me and RC fighting if scum

Titus sees teacher scum but it seems moonlogicky to me

First off, i'm not gonna pay attention to a 2-yr old game

Second, I agree on teacher. I townread the slot. My team says he could be deepwolf.

Meh teacher+RCE was a day two read I had.

I could compromise there if RCE scum but Skitter would have to have a hella bad game or just be predisposed to scumreading me

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I'm trying to make up my mind about xtoxm.

He claims to be NB'd, but as scum he could easily just claim the opposite and nothing happens. Him claiming it and saying there's nothing there puts him in a worse spot as scum then just claiming not NB'd.

My mind tells me he's more likely town then scum by his claim.

I cast suggestion level moon logic
Ico voluntarily fails and now understands Xtom town
Good night Good progress.

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@math, do you scumread me on play?

or is it really just your mind that went blank because the setup doesn't make sense according to you?

The latter.

Your play is townie AF but that’s me as scum so it pings me

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I could compromise there if RCE scum but Skitter would have to have a hella bad game or just be predisposed to scumreading me

i'm not oblivious to bussing being a thing, but skitter did lead the scum lynch on saud D2, which counts for a lot in my book

Iirc RC lead it and just kept demanding Saud over and over and over

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Spoiler: the phonemes in this sentence

Vote Count 2.12

Saudade

(4): RadiantCowbells, skitter30, Aristophanes, Iconeum

RadiantCowbells

(3): Saudade, RCEnigma, MathBlade

shos

(1): Flopz

Iconeum

(1): shos

Not voting (3): Bellaphant, Xtoxm, teacher

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 4 PM PST on January 31st, in (expired on 2020-01-31 20:00:00).

Yeah RC lead by vote count

Not gonna go find the catalyst post at 1 am.

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i can be here till ~10:30 est but then i gotta bounce, i have to be at work an hour and half early tomorrow, fml

Hey skitty! I too am around to chat atm if you got shit for me

I also have a 12 hour work day tomorrow so I feel ya ahaha

hey, how are you still feeling about the shos wagon ?

Heya!

I like the makeup of the wagon minus Flopz who should do SOMETHING but I kinda want to give the guy a chance here. He's legit putting efforts forth and I want to see what he has to say! And I have a feeling it might take an extra day phase to get that tbh. No harm in letting him live the day tbh because if he doesn't deliver he's done.

What do you think of a shift to Saudade?

flopz is scaring me tbh,
i kinda feel like he's had a lot of time to sort of gather thoguths and like ~play~ he's been here since mid-day1 already (like pre rc/tw i think because i remember he voted you during the ehight of your wagon in one of his first posts) and i still feel like we don't have much out of him

rc can you repeat why you're townreading flopz again? because i find that read to be kinda inexplicable.
also the bella one

i'm ok with shifting to saudade
VOTE: saudade

Yeah just okay to shift

Not a skitter driven wagon
It was a skitter sheep

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@Bella, did you provide a reason for targeting RCE?

Bella’s probably town
Pitch mechanics lynch pool is RCE/Skitter/teacher/shos

Teacher has a weird associative if RCE is scum
Where he literally understands the read of him+RCE and gets it
Then complains when I never elaborated

It’s weird.

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Vt - hadn’t claimed because I was in class not on phone.

I’d like RCE to go next.

Driving shortly. Popcorn to ari

I wonder how RCE’s zero posts convinced Teacher to popcorn to Ari next

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Vt - hadn’t claimed because I was in class not on phone.

I’d like RCE to go next.

Driving shortly. Popcorn to ari

I wonder how RCE’s zero posts convinced Teacher to popcorn to Ari next

Nope I am idiot missed the claim

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Ugh. Another fun 1v1 “caught!scum” go round with RC. Is this like round 6? (math/flopz/ari/duck/skitter/math/RCE/am I missing any??)

Honestly I could give af at this point. This game sucks, and the thread is unreadable. Hope you’re proud.

Can you actually read this please.

Just the last 5 pages.

I did. I think I see what you’ve said but I’m fairly drunk so want to sober do it.

Holy shit Titus may not be so moonlogicky

Titus said Teacher +RCE and here when teacher avoids comment of RCE argument by RC is bad I kinda saw it
Then when RC made the argument and switched to Saud it was like grrrr

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I will vote as well. We have time to allow for a claim. Let’s get one.

intent to L-1 or hammer - whatever. Saud claim.

Just L-1 teacher. As conf town I will have hammer so day ends when town wants.

Because you said this and it isn’t true. I’m a stickler for accuracy (hence my round and rounds with RC on overstating and whether something was a reversal or wasn’t). You’ve said similar things before, and it’s not accurate and this time I felt like pointing it out, while at the same time sharing that I thought the distinction was not substantive/impt.

Also start here when teacher complains about me scumreading his shade

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Ugh. Another fun 1v1 “caught!scum” go round with RC. Is this like round 6? (math/flopz/ari/duck/skitter/math/RCE/am I missing any??)

Honestly I could give af at this point. This game sucks, and the thread is unreadable. Hope you’re proud.

Can you actually read this please.

Just the last 5 pages.

I did. I think I see what you’ve said but I’m fairly drunk so want to sober do it.

Holy shit Titus may not be so moonlogicky

Titus said Teacher +RCE and here when teacher avoids comment of RCE argument by RC is bad I kinda saw it
Then when RC made the argument and switched to Saud it was like grrrr

Titus hasn't made anything of the vote counts yet?

She probably has and hasn’t shared

She’s moonlogicky enough

There’s no way to paraphrase her VCA

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I will vote as well. We have time to allow for a claim. Let’s get one.

intent to L-1 or hammer - whatever. Saud claim.

Just L-1 teacher. As conf town I will have hammer so day ends when town wants.

Because you said this and it isn’t true. I’m a stickler for accuracy (hence my round and rounds with RC on overstating and whether something was a reversal or wasn’t). You’ve said similar things before, and it’s not accurate and this time I felt like pointing it out, while at the same time sharing that I thought the distinction was not substantive/impt.

Also start here when teacher complains about me scumreading his shade

In the world you're considering right now. Which is that that I was blocked trying to kill RC.

Doesn't that make Teachers statement and subsequent argument all true?

Yes, but TMI

That’s like if 38 out of 39 hints point to X being town but what if you’re not? And the not is accurate, more likely than not the person had a reason.

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So it kinda lends credence to you and teacher together tried to kill RC

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As a vt claim teacher would have no such reason.

The shade day two I get

I am weird

But before then? Imho teacher was trying to plant a seed of doubt

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Day three I get*

Huzzah I still can’t count

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RCE, why aren't you pushing shos harder?

From your PoV that should be lockscum?

More like if he’s town then he’s not investigating who was the save (himself or me).

His thoughts aren’t deep enough because he is making them up.

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After rereading RCE, I have a strong feeling he could be town actually

His stance on RC slot didn't make a ton of sense, because as scum he's caught pants down to anyone rereading him rn.
His approach to RC didn't feel faked. It had duck-level feelings to it.

Also not seeing any resistance to RCE lynch is a bit creepy.
I'm def not ready to lynch

Teacher soft resisted.

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Math - who do you townread? And am I scum generally or only with RC?

I can’t tell what world you’re living in, and I need to try to see it from your eyes.

Mechanics aside Flops.

Mechanics read however balanced Xtom
Mafiascum “balance” Bella Ico

And as for you, you could be scum with Ari too but if RCE is town (doubtful) then scum had to shoot us and iirc we only agreed on Ari so no matter who gets shot Ari flips scum if RCE is town

Titus thinks you+Ari I think RCE jailkept stopping RC kill is much more likely

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My answer is above.
I always consider different worlds etc.

If me describing that isn’t good enough for you *shrug* I don’t know of any other way to answer the question.

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So teacher

Let me ask you something here.

Assume RCE is town (imho laughable) and that I am scum (I know I am not)

What happened N1? Why was RCE such a valuable kill shot?

I just don’t see scum shooting RCE night one over RC.

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i have to work but i can field questions/go into more detail later

just a friendly reminder

WHEN YOU SEE ME FLIP GREEN.

DO NOT WRITE THIS OFF AS "OH ANOTHER TVT~~~".

WE ARE ALL MORE COMPETENT THAN HE IS GIVING US CREDIT FOR.

HE DIES START OF DAY TWO. EOD.

IF HE HAS A GUILTY, YOU IGNORE IT. IF HE FLAILS AND SQUIRMS, IGNORE IT. NO COMPROMISE UNTIL RC IS LYNCHED.

If you flip town I got you.

Huh. Well... I didn't quite catch that.

Okay Ari.

I mean, Nancy knows if no one else does that when I say that I mean it.

I know you're serious. I just don't think you're right!

Literally I have a guilty on duck

He's dying today

Stop this please D1 guilties are not normal on MS.

This is your scum meta. Please stop.

Nah he does this as any alignment tbh.
And we all know his D1 guilties are merely extremely confident reads.

Wait, we all know that, right?

He claimed invest in Lynch The Wolves
He claimed a guilty in Lynch the Wolves
He was scum in Lynch the Wolves with an investigative power

Like I get the fact RC hates I scumread him
But I am tired of being viewed as crazy when this is literal history repeating itself.

I just want this day over

He claims guilties in like a quarter of his games regardless of role or alignment tho. It's just an RC thing.
Like mastina claiming masons. It doesn't mean anything mechanically most times, but it says a lot about their reads.

But it's great when you roll masons with Mastina.

These are RCE’s last few posts. Can you with a straight face argue that RCE was shot over claimed RC?
And over me who may be right or wrong on reads but at least was trying for cohesion?

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RCE is only town if Bella is scum lying and the odds of that shrink with each time I am told I am ridiculous in my setup spec. Plus neighborize+alien lends credence to her claim. RCE is caught scum. The more you push me as ridiculous the more you pretty much scum claim.

The push on me end of day two was bad. This is just worse. Like just think things through.

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@ico Think for a minute
Neighborizing scum has flipped.
What better boon to give scum than an ability to talk with a traitor.
My guess is that Xtom was their guess on the traitor.
The way teacher asks me gamestate while scumreading me tells me that he thinks I am the traitor.

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Now if I am right that traitor is skitter but that I am least sure on
Teacher+RCE makes soooo much sense

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1. Because I don’t operate like that. It would be bullshit.
2. Because I was operating and building a townblock. RCE wasn’t.
3. No. Absolutely not. You’d have to argue that RCE’s reads or my reads were good enough to merit a shot.You’re just not.
RC as much as I find him toxic can be a good player at times.
You’d have to counter that good + PR.
Sure he could have been but BBMolla woulda had my head if RC flipped town. BB was like yeah BB is bad but he’s town and bad. He was okay with the lynch for gamestate but never scumread RC which would be enough to save him. An RC lynch was never happening. It was just about getting him to be a nicer human and working together and catching scum along the way.

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The presumption is the person jailed is scum in a no kill scenario.
If you want to townread then you have to provide a reasonable scenario of events. It’s not up to me to discount a wild theory. It’s up to you to prove yours.

What scum team shoots at RCE? Or Me?

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An alternative traitor is Ico if not Skitter but that’s the weakest part of my theory and it’s kinda just there and coooould be Xtom but that’s so freakin rare. But teacher+RCE I think is dead to rights. And it requires a huge leap of faith and moon logic but teacher + RCE is straightforward and obvious imho

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I guess by PoE one could argue I lockTown flops and Ari and Bella are lock town if you really need a hierarchy

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1. Because I don’t operate like that. It would be bullshit.
2. Because I was operating and building a townblock. RCE wasn’t.
3. No. Absolutely not. You’d have to argue that RCE’s reads or my reads were good enough to merit a shot.You’re just not.
RC as much as I find him toxic can be a good player at times.
You’d have to counter that good + PR.
Sure he could have been but BBMolla woulda had my head if RC flipped town. BB was like yeah BB is bad but he’s town and bad. He was okay with the lynch for gamestate but never scumread RC which would be enough to save him. An RC lynch was never happening. It was just about getting him to be a nicer human and working together and catching scum along the way.

Was like RC is bad*

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Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

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I mumbled ok Boomer to myself for most of these posts because I don't get where you're coming from at all.

If town gets me and scum doesn’t that’s #winning

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The presumption is the person jailed is scum in a no kill scenario.
If you want to townread then you have to provide a reasonable scenario of events. It’s not up to me to discount a wild theory. It’s up to you to prove yours.

What scum team shoots at RCE? Or Me?

But this is not JUST a JK scenario.

Yesterday, you were so confident you were the NK that you were shot that you were yelling at me that you were in fact conf!town, and calling me scum for saying there were a possibility you WERE NOT saved. Now, youre calling me scum for saying there is a possibility you WERE saved. You quite literally cannot have it both ways.

Scum dont need to shoot RCE. They could shoot you.
Scum dont need to shoot you. They could shoot RCE.
And yes, Scum!RCE could shoot you, and the JK wouldnt matter.

To be clear, I am soft-defending RC -- exactly your words. Soft because Im not confident on his slot, and definitely see the world where he would be the killer. But defending because he is a townread -- indeed, just as universally townread as you at end of D1, to the point that he was a good protective target. You say he was not trying for cohesion, like you. But he certainly was not impeding it, and in fact generated it (to the extent he was a uni-townread).

Yes. I was confident. Based on the known pieces. Anyone would come to that conclusion.

Bella’s claim changes things drastically and fits with the townreads of Ari the game has had.

Those are indeed possibilities but mainly if you’re going to hard/soft defend RCE as town
You have to posit a working theory (not just could) that RCE or I were the kill.

Town deals in probability. Scum deals with could be.

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And I am calling you scum for so much more than that Teacher. Misrep. I called you scum day two before that.

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Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

Because if you're town you're not reasoning with me the way I'm willing to consider the possibility of town!you.

Then that’s fine. Wrong but a fine stance to have.

You still have to present a case where you are shot instead of RC or me and it has to be more probable than you scum.

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fits with the townreads of Ari the game has had.

Can you please towncase Ari?

I am at work and busy. Town case later.

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That is a possible world. It’s just literally not the most probable one. Your town flip would demonstrate one of us correct on d1 and needing a bullet.

It’s just not the most probable one. If you’re town that’s what you’re up against.

Pedit you need to build a world if you’re town that makes more sense than you scum.

Because I don’t see it and I don’t think any Townie does either.

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Town deals in probability. Scum deals with could be.

OK, we are on common ground here.

Let's dial into your favorite traitor theory, and run it against the last 600 mini-normals (Here)
There are 27 games with traitors. Only 3 (11%) are 9-4. In those 3 they were against:

• 2-shot cop, sk, 3-shot neighborizer, and JK (1862)
  
• Disloyal Informed MAcho Ninja Neighbor N-12 Babysitter, N-1 cop, Macho informed IC, informed N3+ vig, neighbor, neighbor, and neighbor (2058)
  
• Watcher, Disloyal Vig, informed, 3-shot loyal neighborizer, and JOAT (2062)

Regardless of our disagreements over the power of town here, thats WAY more power than this town has. Can we give the 9-4 bit a break?

Nope. Ico could be traitor and neighborize for scum says otherwise.

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Past games don’t have any relevance to this setup.

Gamblers fallacy

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I put less stock into killing for reads after the D1 we had, and more stock in killing to remove power (RC) or uni-town reads and continue divisiveness. Normally I like sheeping the dead, but think this gameroom was such that reads had less weight. I genuinely expected D2 to be turbo-RC.

Then you should be voting RCE. Only way a kill fails on RC is if RCE is scum.