Micro 102: Mainstream Mini-Mafia [END, CULT WIN]

[JacobSavage]

Majiffy. Hence the lynch

[Voidedmafia]

Voided I can't believe you did a Meta lol. Just before my first game on site, NS was modding a Newbie game with Meta and had an issue (town pulled off a win anyway), with Meta forgetting he was scum in the game and not sending in kills cause he thought he was VT.

Who's meta again?

And it's not like i meant to do it. Though I won't deny that I have intentionally tried not to learn my alignment once or twice. Even so, if I had remembered it I would've at least tried to track someone <_<.

[RachMarie]

Metabot he has not been on site in a fair while guess he got too busy with school.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie there have been TWO nights Voided was on N 1, I wanted to know who he investigated on N 2.

what

[Thor665]

Hurm.

So we have a way to limit SK kills
A way to limit Recruits
A SK/Cult Cop
And a JOAT who has forgotten to use his powers even though some of his powers require him to use them to even get other powers, and whose claim is backing up the cop claim.

The JOAT feels like the wtflolomg addition. Why the hell wouldn't you be fishing like a boss at the very least?

Ugh, also, at this stage, we have so many PRs that I do not believe the PRs to be telling the truth *or* if they are then there is no assurance that PRs are cult immune.

I'm starting to think it's FT/Voided in some situation for the Cult Leader.
I actually lean FT right now - he could have figured Majiffy by not being able to recruit him and then just confirmed pretty much anyone today. Voided's play, if lying, was done in a way to protect FT and not to make Voided look good - which considering my conversation with Voided could be as simple as him going for the Cult win as described. Though if they figured Majiffy via a failed recruit that makes less valid sense. I think my boggle is accepting Voided as town right now, but he either is town or the cop is lying. The two weak protective powers make a lot of sense paired with each other - and neither of them are a Doc, so I'm wondering if maybe the whole cop/doc thing is all a sham and Voided is talking true.

BLAH!

Okay, quick thoughts;

I think Voided is likely provably 'not cult leader' simply because no sane Cult leader would derp up a claim as bad as he just did at this stage of the game.
FT becomes a question mark, lack of a Doc in Voided's role combined with lurk and not reading which does not speak well for a cop who just did a big win for town and arguably really helped his side - I would expect him to be present and excited and pushing, instead we have this.
I think Jacob is off the table - his role meshes really well with the Alarmist role for balance and is a logical weak role, conversely both the JOAT and Cop are strong roles and the only way I think both of those could be town was if they could be recruited *and* Mafia or Cult got some sort of break from them.

I think Rach continues to scream for lynch.
I think HD isn't leader and wouldn't have been culted.
Since at least one of the JOAT/Cop has to be legit I tend to lean towards Voided as still being clear simply because if he was a Cult Leader he could have just gone 'VT' and ridden to the win without risking his recruited cop.
I think Mollie would have recruited me by now.
So...

Let's lynch FT or Rach.
Thoughts?

[FourTrouble]

Why you think Mollie would have recruited you by now?

[FourTrouble]

I don't see why Cult wouldn't have recruited Thor by now... so I dunno. Cult is probably Jacob, Thor, and Rach. That would make sense to me. Jacob as cult leader, probably. That's what I'm thinking at the moment.

[Thor665]

Wow, and suddenly he appears.
A-mah-zing.

I have already explained why I think Mollie would have recruited me by now. You can find it in one of the pages you skimmed.
Why do you think Jacob is the cult leader?
Also, why do you think Rach and I are his oi boyz?

[FourTrouble]

I have already explained why I think Mollie would have recruited me by now. You can find it in one of the pages you skimmed.

I don't see it, can you either direct me to that post or explain again. Thanks.

[FourTrouble]

Whoever the leader is, I expect Thor to be cult by this point. He's at the forefront of town discussion yet nowhere close to being lynched, and that's why I expect cult to have recruited him. I'm trying to read over his posts to see if I can figure out cult leader from his interactions with people. I dunno who cult leader is, but I doubt it's Rach based on Thor's push to lynch Rach. I could see Rach as his recruit though. Supposing Jacob recruits Thor N1 and Rach N2.

I could see Mollie or HD as cult leader too. But I dunno, I've never really scum-hunted for a cult team before or cult leader, so I'm basically at a loss at how to proceed doing that.

[FourTrouble]

Voided, what do you think of a Jacob/Thor/Rach cult or Mollie/Thor/Rach cult?

[Thor665]

I could see Mollie or HD as cult leader too. But I dunno, I've never really scum-hunted for a cult team before or cult leader, so I'm basically at a loss at how to proceed doing that.

Fascinating considering you have the whole thing mapped out with the one guy calling you cult at the unquestioned forefront (paired with people he's been trying to get lynched or who have been trying to get him lynched...in cult lylo...)

As for my Mollie case, I stated it for the second (third?) time on Page 40, and was asked about it, and explained it at length.
I'll let you go through the difficult task of reading page 40 to find it. Heck, maybe it will help you cult hunt?

[Thor665]

And, for a guy skimming so much, should I be impressed you noted me calling you out as cult within 5 minutes of me doing it, and posting immediately, when you've missed repeated questions to explain your reads?
What changed in your availability tonight?

[FourTrouble]

Well, tonight is the first time I have had access to a computer all week. I was trying to keep up with the game on my phone, so yes I was skimming through things here and there but haven't had a chance to really sit down and analyze any posts in-depth until tonight.

[pirate mollie]

Hurm.

So we have a way to limit SK kills
A way to limit Recruits
A SK/Cult Cop
And a JOAT who has forgotten to use his powers even though some of his powers require him to use them to even get other powers, and whose claim is backing up the cop claim.

The JOAT feels like the wtflolomg addition. Why the hell wouldn't you be fishing like a boss at the very least?

Ugh, also, at this stage, we have so many PRs that I do not believe the PRs to be telling the truth *or* if they are then there is no assurance that PRs are cult immune.

I'm starting to think it's FT/Voided in some situation for the Cult Leader.
I actually lean FT right now - he could have figured Majiffy by not being able to recruit him and then just confirmed pretty much anyone today. Voided's play, if lying, was done in a way to protect FT and not to make Voided look good - which considering my conversation with Voided could be as simple as him going for the Cult win as described. Though if they figured Majiffy via a failed recruit that makes less valid sense. I think my boggle is accepting Voided as town right now, but he either is town or the cop is lying. The two weak protective powers make a lot of sense paired with each other - and neither of them are a Doc, so I'm wondering if maybe the whole cop/doc thing is all a sham and Voided is talking true.

BLAH!

Okay, quick thoughts;

I think Voided is likely provably 'not cult leader' simply because no sane Cult leader would derp up a claim as bad as he just did at this stage of the game.
FT becomes a question mark, lack of a Doc in Voided's role combined with lurk and not reading which does not speak well for a cop who just did a big win for town and arguably really helped his side - I would expect him to be present and excited and pushing, instead we have this.
I think Jacob is off the table - his role meshes really well with the Alarmist role for balance and is a logical weak role, conversely both the JOAT and Cop are strong roles and the only way I think both of those could be town was if they could be recruited *and* Mafia or Cult got some sort of break from them.

I think Rach continues to scream for lynch.
I think HD isn't leader and wouldn't have been culted.
Since at least one of the JOAT/Cop has to be legit I tend to lean towards Voided as still being clear simply because if he was a Cult Leader he could have just gone 'VT' and ridden to the win without risking his recruited cop.
I think Mollie would have recruited me by now.
So...

Let's lynch FT or Rach.
Thoughts?

okay well I think voided's claim is the weirdest one that is 3 town with potential views. that seems a bit imbalanced? I had early suspicions of ft cos of his dust up with majiffy and then the way he came into the thread with such a firm view. I already put forth the scenario that he could have been cult leader and tried to recruit majiffy and that is how he knew that majiffy was scum. if that is the case then we are not in lylo.

you were pushing hd's case for 2 days then why have you suddenly changed your mind on him?

[FourTrouble]

Thor - now I read through things more carefully, basically all I see is that you think Mollie would have recruited you because Mollie likes you.. except that isn't really a valid point at all, practically-speaking it's WIFOM. You aren't gonna get anywhere with that kind of reasoning, at least I'm not buying it as a town mindset. I expect more in-depth thinking from town, especially regarding the motivations cult leader has for their recruitment choices. What I want to see from you, if you're gonna keep pushing this argument, is something specific that has happened in this game that makes you say Mollie would have recruited you if Mollie was cult.

I already gave you the answer to that, of course. The only problem is, the answer applies to ANYONE here who could be cult leader. It comes down to the fact that you have been in a leadership position since you replaced in, besides which, you seem impossible to lynch (even now where I'm convinced you're scum, still feels like anyone but you is getting lynched today, dunno exactly why it feels that way though). Point is, Mollie would have recruited you if she was cult, not cause she likes you, but because of your central position in the direction this game has taken and seems to be taking. And pretty much everyone else would have recruited you for the same reason.

So I put Thor in the cult. The level of his thinking has definitely dropped from when he replaced in (it's not nearly as well thought out as it was earlier). The motivations he's ascribing to the decisions cult makes when recruiting are so reductive and simplistic I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly be convinced he's town at this point.

The only problem now is piecing together who Thor's partners are. I think we need to analyze his interactions with Mollie/Jacob/Rach/HD and that's where we're gonna figure out who the Cult Leader is. Unless Thor is the leader, but I'm not sure if I'm prepared to make that jump yet given my strong town-read on him earlier in the game.

[Voidedmafia]

The motivations he's ascribing to the decisions cult makes when recruiting are so reductive and simplistic I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly be convinced he's town at this point.

But this is necessarily a bad thing...why?

[FourTrouble]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking... do you think that kind of superficial analysis is more likely to come from town or scum?

[FourTrouble]

Voided, are there any players here who you absolutely think would have recruited you if they were cult leader? Or also to flip the question, any players here who you think most certainly would not have recruited you?

[RachMarie]

You got it wrong, Mollie likes Majiffy. Anyone who has played here for any amount of time is definitely going to want Thor on his or her side so duh he would be a star for recruiting. I am still skeptical of your slot and the cop claim.

Thor give it a rest-- if ya all lynch me then Town will lose for sure. I doubt the cult would recruit me, so I am pretty sure I will stay VT. Sometimes it helps not being a superb player

[JacobSavage]

A tracker/rolecop and a cop does seem far too townsided.
I mean considering there's 9 players I wouldn't have more than 1 investigative role but somebody more experienced at balancing can tell me if that's silly.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking... do you think that kind of superficial analysis is more likely to come from town or scum?

Does it matter where it comes from?

You're saying that because it's "superficial and reductive" it's coming from scum, I'm asking you why that has to be.

Voided, are there any players here who you absolutely think would have recruited you if they were cult leader? Or also to flip the question, any players here who you think most certainly would not have recruited you?

Thor, Rach, maybe Mollie. People say I'm comparatively decent as town, so *shrug*.

[Thor665]

you were pushing hd's case for 2 days then why have you suddenly changed your mind on him?

I've literally explained this at length twice already.
I'm pretty sure I even did a simplistic re-hash in the post you just quoted. So...how about you tell me which part confuses you?

Thor - now I read through things more carefully, basically all I see is that you think Mollie would have recruited you because Mollie likes you.. except that isn't really a valid point at all, practically-speaking it's WIFOM.

It's a highly valid point and your silly to suggest otherwise. Now, it's *not* a good point for the rest of town, because they can't be assured that I haven't been recruited. However, it is a *highly* valid point for me and I don't care whether or not you like it, my lynch choices will be based on the awareness that I am not cult and what that means to the game state. To suggest I should do otherwise is some mixture of derp and drang.

What I want to see from you, if you're gonna keep pushing this argument, is something specific that has happened in this game that makes you say Mollie would have recruited you if Mollie was cult.

So...all past interactions with Mollie that would apply to the way she would react o me HAVE to be ignored?
Yeah...no.

Point is, Mollie would have recruited you if she was cult, not cause she likes you, but because of your central position in the direction this game has taken and seems to be taking. And pretty much everyone else would have recruited you for the same reason.

This is pretty silly sounding coming from the claimed cop - why would I be a better recruit than you?
In fact, as you talk about who is or isn't lynchable - I am literally the first (and only) person to suggest you should be it.
But I'm suspect because I'd be so hard to lynch...riiiiight.

The level of his thinking has definitely dropped from when he replaced in (it's not nearly as well thought out as it was earlier). The motivations he's ascribing to the decisions cult makes when recruiting are so reductive and simplistic I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly be convinced he's town at this point.

[Thor665]

okay well I think voided's claim is the weirdest one that is 3 town with potential views. that seems a bit imbalanced?

I wanted to call this one out as its own thing.

Okay, Mollie, here are basically only a handful of situations that exist with this claim;

1, It is true, and Voided is a derp silly role and played it mondo-terrible.
2. It is a lie, Voided is cult mook trying to get lynched because cult will win if he does.
3. Voided is Cult Leader, is investigation immune/recruited the cop and decided to claim a really derptastic role and role actions as opposed to VT in order to get town to lynch his cop recruit so he can win.

In 2 of the 3 situations, Voided is the wrong person to lynch.
In the other one it is a really ballsy and weird gambit double-blind play that is not consistent with Voided's playstyle as scum.
Ergo - Voided is either cult recruit, or legit town and should *not* be lynched.
I agree it is imbalanced and casts doubt on either Voided or Four Trouble and indicates one of them is lying about their role.
Could you weigh in on Four Trouble now?

[Thor665]

I mean, what if Voided had even just come out with 'single shot rolecop' and said he'd targeted FT and got 'cult recruiter'? He could have done this, and done it after a time he'd been 'cleared' by FT and would be in a much stronger position to argue his situation as the one shot rolecop would be way more balanced.

Instead his role is a strange mish-mash claim of fail wherein he even has a role that is lying (nurse) and we're supposed to think that somehow the cop replace part is legit? Town with a infallible cop, who if he dies is replaced? It is blatant that one of them is lying at this stage. Voided's lies don't make sense as cult recruiter and FT's do.

Literally the only question we have is if FT makes more sense as a recruited goon than a recruiter.