Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Mastermind of Sin]

I just did.

[Seacore]

Vote Count 1.14

Norman (3) -

LynchMePls, Shadow1psc, CooLDoG

AurorusVox (1) -

greenknight

CooLDoG (1) -

trekker

Shadow1psc (1) -

sorgster

MaguaofIllusion (1) -

Feysal

Tammy (2) -

Haze, Zdenek

Zdenek (1) -

Tammy

Foxace36 (10) -

Pine, Foxace36, MaguaofIllusion, Shadoweh, brizingre1, Jackal711, AurorusVox, Empking, mastin2, kondi2424

trekker (1) -
Jackal711 (1) -

PeregrineV

Empking (1) -

Mastermind of Sin

Not Voting (4) - Moneybags, BBmolla, Lord Mhork, Norman

VLA - trekker

(expired on 2012-04-03 00:00:00) left in Day 1.
With 26 alive, 14 are needed to secure a lynch.

Seeking replacement for LynchMePls and sorgster

[Feysal]

My apologies for my short absence. It was for a good cause though - I kept my promise to Amrun to repair one of her games, which took much out of my mafia playing and reading time.

I see there have been plenty of posts, some of them quite interesting. Reply time.

Now how about you explain how voting me for trolling (which is basically what you are doing) is different than us voting Norman for trolling (which you used as a scum-tell, natch).

I have explained this before. You voted Norman for trolling when you knew perfectly well that he was a troll. Essentially you voted Norman for being Norman, in other words you wanted to policy lynch him. That would have been fine, if I had known what Norman would do to the game I may even have been sympathetic, but you did not call it a policy lynch. You tried to present Norman as scum, using reasons that made no sense so early in the game. And that is what makes the vote so dishonest.

The fact that you have been confusing people about your identities is not what I'm voting you for. It is simply something I thought strange about your play, especially when you used it as a reason to declare CooLDoG town. Frankly his confusion could easily be feigned.

Not that day one information is useless, but day one is not the day all of you wasting your time trying to get big name players lynched is going to happen. People who are actually generating content and connections we can look in to, that will be helpful later, not today.

I've heard that one before. Magua said something very similar about leaving MoI alive in AFFC. And what happened? Magua was night killed, and MoI survived the game to win as scum. Yeah, that worked really damn well for town. Big names, as you say, should not be given any sort of preferential treatment, and any content and connections they provide is going to be riddled with wifom.

Since you have some experience with him, would you say that Zdenek is a player with easily distinguishable town and scum styles?

I only have the one game where I saw Zdenek as town, but I have played against him as scum three times. Based on those, my opinion of his scum play is that it is cautious to the point of being lurky. Currently he is being rather more proactive and belligerent than I'm used to seeing from him as scum.

To give a short answer, I believe his styles are quite distinct, and this is far more likely to be him as town.

So your point is that it is completely obvious who the heads of the Hydra are to anyone with a working cranium yet are questioning why we have a funny sig? Is that what I am seeing here?

No. I always thought your signature was an obvious joke, which is part of why I find it suspect that someone could be confused about that. The only time you ever used your signature to do anything in game, it was to confuse CooLDoG, who was referring to you as shotty, and even that is debatable. I have no problem with your signature. What I do question is what did you expect to gain from confusing CooLDoG and others, and why do you think town would be more likely to be ignorant about who your heads were?

For something else, I don't like AV's drunk posting at all. He basically calls for people to sheep Mastin, before he even knew which of the vacant slots he replaced into. I don't like the fact that he was drunk posting in the first place either. I've seen AV confuse his scum partner with a major American city, and I just wonder what sort of scheming he may be trying to mask now. I do agree that Internet Explorer is an all wonky browser though. While developing for the web, IE is the root cause behind every second problem, and every single incompatibility problem.

I'm not answering Mastin's request to summarize the game here, partly because it is very late for me, and partly because I have yet to form a coherent picture of the game myself. There are still many players I have no reads on.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I do agree that Internet Explorer is an all wonky browser though. While developing for the web, IE is the root cause behind every second problem, and every single incompatibility problem.

Oh god yes. IE is the bane of my existence. If I could get my company to stop supporting IE as a primary browser, our projects would release at least a month faster on average if not better.

[Shadoweh]

So I see there's still no Jackal wagon. Or anything but Norman (lol) and Tammy (LOL). If I have time before deadline I'll read back but on a skim the last page looked like more of Zdenek trying really hard to lynch someone obvtown for looking for answers. Still not impressed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

There's also a Foxace wagon. Although he's probably town.

[Empking]

This is not a scum reaction imo. Let's find someone else to lynch today.

Its not a town reaction either. Its a Fox reaction.

Also, I've never had any problems with IE. FF is much more buggy in my experience.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Then you are crazy. IE is the worst modern browser to develop websites for. Firefox has its own issues, but largely it at least knows how to run a website correctly.

[Pine]

Im the only player that has a chance of being lynched before the deadline so why should I even bother trying to convince everyone to lynch someone else at this point? I think it be better that Im lynched so we can avoid a no lynch.

This is not a scum reaction imo. Let's find someone else to lynch today.

I'm...actually tending to agree. Hrm.

Unvote
Vote: Zdenek

I'll still settle for a Foxace lynch, but that really does look like Towngaveup, rather than scumgaveup. Enough that it calls all of the previously scummy things into question, as in "Am I sure this is scum or is it just newbie moron stuff?"

[Tammy]

Serious question people - Foxace has been the leading wagon since Monday. Every single day one more person goes onto his wagon it seems. If he is scum, why has this been happening? Why haven't his partners at least tried to form some kind of counter-wagon? Deadline is less than two days away, and everyone has been resigned to lynching Foxace. Sure, wagons built up against Norman and CooLDoG earlier, but faded just as quickly as they rose. (Oh and there was the tiny one on Pine.)

Sure, you could say that his partners gave up hope and decided to buss or distance, but I haven't seen what I would expect from that either.

It's looking to me like he's become the easy lynch. Yes, he's brought it partly on himself and yes, he might be scum, but if a majority of the thread is going to decide that he's definitely scum, why haven't his partners done anything to help him?

Oh and LOL to saying that it's partly because of xvart. I just re-read xvart in the previous thread, and don't see what's overtly scummy about his post.

So, what I'm asking is if you are voting for Foxace is it because you actually think he's scum?

Shadoweh - If you want a Jackal wagon, why are you voting Foxace? This doesn't make sense to me.

[trekker]

vote coolodgy

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh - If you want a Jackal wagon, why are you voting Foxace? This doesn't make sense to me.

Besides how Foxace is prod dodging, there doesn't seem to be interest in the wagon. If this Foxace wagon dissolved right now it would be highly likely to fall on two people I am certain should not be lynched ever, nevermind Day 1.

[trekker]

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Seacore]

Ooba replaces LynchMePls. Thanks ooba! One spot to go!

[greenknight]

Shadoweh - If you want a Jackal wagon, why are you voting Foxace? This doesn't make sense to me.

Besides how Foxace is prod dodging, there doesn't seem to be interest in the wagon. If this Foxace wagon dissolved right now it would be highly likely to fall on two people I am certain should not be lynched ever, nevermind Day 1.

Why have YOU not made a case against jackal yourself? You've had plenty of time to do so.

[Seacore]

Zar replaces sorgster, who ineffectually replaced Guy_Named_Riggs

[CooLDoG]

Splitting up these posts to avoid 500 error. See help forum!

He could be paranoid scum.

But in all honesty I don't see anything wrong with tammy. I see that she is getting bogged down a bit by all the redundant questions that zde is asking. Pro-tip, if he keeps asking the same thing just quote your previous post and say, "here it is dip shit, deal with it". What are your scumspects btw.

What redundant questions have I asked her?

Your points on tammy are always the same. Whenever you quote tammy I literally don't have to read your post in order to know exactly what you are going to say. It is always the same music: "Tammy, why did you ask so many questions" "Tammy, why did you ask those people s many questions" and the like. I didn't buy it the first time I'm not going to buy it for a while if you keep saying the same thing. Try to not tunnel on one player, it really limits your usefulness and it is

slightly

scummy sense it takes a lot less effort than actual scumhunting. See if I don't buy your tammy case (I don't) then all of your 20 posts on her were wasted. I don't see a tammy wagon, so it looks to me like you wasted a lot of our time talking about stuff that no one was going to support, and you weren't convincing enough to get us to support it after the 15th wall post on why tammy is scum.

@tammy, don't respond to his shit, please. You crowd the thread with even more noise.

Can someone tell me how to post more than one quote in a post? Is there a multi-quote function or do you just copy and paste or something?

What I do is right click on the quote button and click open in new tab. Then I copy what is inside of that new reply into my real post's reply box.

[CooLDoG]

Spoiler: zde's next wall on tammy

Almost every single thing you have brought against me has been your willful and deliberate mischaracterization of my actions and words. You've selectively quoted things to make me look a certain way which is completely opposite of my intent, and every time I've tried to explain it to you, you ignore it.

Examples or shut up.

LOL at the idea of our scum team. Seriously, there isn't an emoticon that can clearly show the fits of laughter this has put me into.

Okay Tammy. Who else is scum and what are the teams?

I didn't say that it changed my town read, just that it was a bit jarring.

Then what did you mean when you said jarring?

Are you suggesting that someone who does not share the same opinion of you is suspicious?

No. I've explained this already.

If you do happen to be town Zdenek, you really need to remember that this is a team game and you need to figure out a way to work with your team.

If you are you are town, then you are too stupid to be playing mafia. I do not know who is scum and I do not know who is on my team. The fact that you think that you are trying to make me look bad for this ridiculous reason is another reason that you are scum.

Can someone tell me how to post more than one quote in a post? Is there a multi-quote function or do you just copy and paste or something?

quote tags.
Also if you select text and hit the quote button, if will only quote the selected text.

There are more posts of me talking about AVox in the thread you know. There's also one more statement that you clipped so as not to include in this post. That statement would be me questioning your claim of AVox's buddying. INTERESTING how you fail to include that.

Direct me to the quote that I omitted that explains how your read on him developed. You asking a question, is not the same as you taking a stance.

How is post 419 relevant at all to your summary?

It shows Shadoweh saying that she thinks that AVox is scum, and you have no problem with her reasons when she gives them, and then later when I present them you say they are all crap. You don't even question her read.

I...changed my mind? That I remembered having an impression of someone that was suspicious from the old thread, but then after I got a chance to reread that thread...changed my mind?

Then explain how your read changed.

Spoiler: zde's wall on tammy before that

2. Nice of you to once again clip the portion where I tell you that what you said about AVox was crap. I never once denied agreeing with you that his fearmongering statement was bad, but once again, I'm within my rights as a rational human being to believe that just because I agree with you on one aspect of a read does not mean that I have to agree with you on the entire read.

I'd like to summarize Tammy's positions on AVox throughout the game, just so that they are clear to everyone. Hopefully, they will also make clear one of the reasons why Tammy is scum.

MoI: I have actually, he was scum in the first Newbie 1180 we played together. Unfortunately Tigers ate everything after Day 1 so you can't see exactly how British he is. (Or that he's scum. O_o DarthYoshi is his partner). I've read him as town since Post #164. He sounds downright goofy in it and the language is the same he used in NY 147 Vanillaside. (which does not exist -_-) Basically as town he's not careful with his language.

Sigh. Rereading the old thread I actually had these same concerns about Lemon just being an easy target. I supose for a scum he'd be pretty committed to pissing people off, and he has actually put down an original vote now. I will entertain the idea that he's the same class as Norman right now.

Obviously Bards. Only bards could be this useless.

On the other hand I also recall the problems Zdenek is talking about with AVox. And agreeing with them. And thinking Zdenek was town. <_< Rereading is your friend!

##Unvote
##Vote: AVox

Cut: Norman stop posting.

I kind of want to vote you just for what I bolded. I've played a bard before and was anything but useless.

I want to put this here to demonstrate the severe asymmetry in Tammy's responses. Here she says nothing about AVox or the reasons that Shadoweh thinks that he might be scummy.

AVox - Didn't like his attitude in the last thread and certainly don't like that he hasn't made an appearance here yet.

AVox shows up in her top three scum list.

I agree that the fearmongering quote was bad. It's one of the things I don't like about Avox.

She agrees with me about the fear mongering.

Oh MoI - I said that AV was 3rd on my scum reads earlier. I retract that now. I've had chance to re-read him in the original thread. I still don't like his position nor do I like his attitude or the fact that he hasn't shown up, but obnoxious doesn't mean scum and I want to see what he has to offer. I like some of what he says, and am really hating the two that are on his wagon.

Now she backtracks. Still saying that she doesn't like his position and she's vague about the things that she likes. This is an incredibly weak argument for changing a read.

4. Why should I vote AVox? Because you say so? Give me a better reason than OMGUS. Give me a better reason than the crap you provided

Is where she finishes off.


This represents an irrational change of a read, and it's one of the reasons that Tammy is scum.

[CooLDoG]

See zde, they are basically the exact same thing. Stop doing it please. You are hurting the town with your silly 40 page long tunnel vision. Hint: I'm not reading another o ne of your posts with a tammy quote in it. Period, it is just a gigantic waste of my time.

Is it really too late for a trekker wagon?

vote:foxface

We simply can't have a no lynch and this might be the last time I get to post before deadline.

[greenknight]

Since you have some experience with him, would you say that Zdenek is a player with easily distinguishable town and scum styles?

I only have the one game where I saw Zdenek as town, but I have played against him as scum three times. Based on those, my opinion of his scum play is that it is cautious to the point of being lurky. Currently he is being rather more proactive and belligerent than I'm used to seeing from him as scum.

To give a short answer, I believe his styles are quite distinct, and this is far more likely to be him as town.

Ok, the reason I asked was that in AFFC he was lurky/unreadable scum and I wanted to get an idea whether that was Zdenek's standard scum game and whether he plays that way as town. The reason I picked Zdenek to meta-attack at the start of the old thread was because I wanted to push him out of the same style if he happened to be scum again. If his normal scum style is passive, I think he could well be scum out of his comfort zone this game, and trying too hard to play against his established meta by forcing aggression based on weak arguments.

Vote: Zdenek

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do I see the makings of a Zdenek wagon?

VOTE: Zdenek

This is a good lynch.

And lulz, Vi trekker is back ...

[MaguaofIllusion]

Do I see the makings of a Zdenek wagon?

VOTE: Zdenek

This is a good lynch.

And lulz, Vi trekker is back ...

Hey look, I'm double posting like a boss!!!

[Moneybags]

I'd be good with a Zdenek lynch. But do we have time? =/

[Jackal711]

Shadoweh - If you want a Jackal wagon, why are you voting Foxace? This doesn't make sense to me.

Besides how Foxace is prod dodging, there doesn't seem to be interest in the wagon. If this Foxace wagon dissolved right now it would be highly likely to fall on two people I am certain should not be lynched ever, nevermind Day 1.

Wagon on me would be mostly a policy lynch based on my heavy lurking in this game. Part of that was due to my focus on the game I was modding, which completed yesterday. Part of it has been that I haven't had the time to properly read the thread, including the cached files. I will do so during night and try to have reads and stuff to post at the start of day 2.

[kondi2424]

VOTE: Zdenek